Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[northsidegal]

HI, YOU ALL GOT APATHETIC NSG IN 1859

THIS GAME YOU GET LEFT SHIFT NSG

[northsidegal]

VOTE: DRAYNTH

[northsidegal]

btw i instantly asked to be on the replacement queue when i saw people voting mohab earlier in the game

go read newbie 1850 (linked on my wiki), come back and then read this game

i'm locktown

[northsidegal]

sorry, what i meant to say was

I'M LOCKTOWN

[northsidegal]

it's actually really annoying replacing mohab because he was one of my two locktowns just from what i skimmed, the other being ruru

[northsidegal]

i think scioness might be scum, by the way

and this time the scumread is coming from an actual read and not oxy softing an innocent on scum throwing me off ( )

[northsidegal]

it's not necessarily a scumread, just a "hmm, scioness doesn't look like her usual towny self here". looking back i've often found that those reads tend to be scum more than my actual scumreads, but they're the ones that i ignore the most often. (mutantdevle in tit for tat comes to mind). i don't want to make that same mistake this game.

[northsidegal]

i have to sheep mith on the opinion that a vig "votecounter" seems like a worse idea than even just coming up with a collectively agreed upon pool.

[northsidegal]

NSG do you think 1130 could be designed specifically to make a first impression on you?

1130? no, probably not. if anything was a scum move meant to capitalize on my replace-in it'd be math reconsidering his scioness read.

[northsidegal]

A simple way to see how having the vig is better is that instead of not vigging, you can just get town to vote on the vig kill. That makes it more or less equivalent to a lynch (except that if the vig themself is voted as the vig target, they can shoot someone else, thus giving town a bit more of an edge).

Yeah, that's another good way of looking at it (though that plan is actually demonstrably worse than letting the Vig make the decision randomly, if it's followed strictly; it tells Mafia who is likely to be killed, so they can kill someone else and avoid doubling up on a townie, and it also tells Mafia who the Vig is as soon as they don't die).

(If I weren't so busy, I'd put something together to calculate the EV of that. Actually might be an interesting setup to run, just having that as a weakened Vig role.)

[northsidegal]

i'm unprepared to read scioness without understanding the difference between her towngame and her scumgame

my northside pal was able to identify the difference easily, so clearly there IS something, it's just not within my range right now to see it

that said her recent posting wasn't scummy so she's not currently my top scumspect

NSG i literally said this earlier in the game lol

yeah i haven't read the game, i was just speaking from what little i knew of what your read what before apparently and you apparently switching it now

[northsidegal]

do sunshine and uglyduck know each other?

[northsidegal]

UD is n00b town, please no lynch.

Well, I will accept possibly really bad scum, but with two friends likely guiding 'em, unlikely.

I'm saying that while being 20 pages back and

still

pissed off with them, though.

You guys post a lot.

i just got that feeling from this post, although reading it a bit more closely there's not really any implication that would suggest that there.

[northsidegal]

okay, reading through the thread from the start now.

[northsidegal]

I would feel bad about pushing scioness with maximum Mathdino weight on d1 off of 1 post
I would otherwise sheep you, as I agree the post is more scum indicative than null
Waiting til everyone checks in

/lurk

I'm not seeing how the post is more scum indicative than not. In fact, I would be inclined to suggest it's more town indicative than anything else.

[not quite related to things]

Also, are there any procedural things I should know about regarding voting around the hammer point? L-1, L-2, that kinda dealio?

[/not quite related to things]

are you me

[northsidegal]

preliminary:

{nsg}
{ruru}
{sunshine13, skitter13}
{AP, Mathdino, the worst, UglyDuck, Oxy, pinturicchio, ofrhz}
{}
{scioness, draynth}

[northsidegal]

i feel like math describing his plan if he rolled scum in 90 only comes from scum him if he rolled scum with people who disagreed with the plan and so discarded it. of course, there's always the chance that he simply came up with another plan to actually use as scum and just said the other one, but that seems slightly unlikely. enough for me to at least move him up from null.

{nsg}
{ruru}
{sunshine13, skitter13}
{Mathdino}
{AP, the worst, UglyDuck, Oxy, pinturicchio, ofrhz}
{}
{scioness, draynth}

[northsidegal]

i remember that i

had

some next level tell for reading pintu, but i don't actually remember what it was...

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{ruru}
{sunshine13, skitter13}
{Mathdino, AP}
{the worst, UglyDuck, Oxy, pinturicchio, ofrhz}
{}
{scioness, draynth}

[northsidegal]

perhaps?

{nsg}
{ruru}
{sunshine13, skitter13}
{Mathdino, AP, Oxy}
{UglyDuck, , pinturicchio, ofrhz}
{the worst}
{scioness, draynth}

[northsidegal]

perhaps?

{nsg}
{ruru}
{sunshine13, skitter13}
{Mathdino, AP, Oxy}
{UglyDuck, , pinturicchio, ofrhz}
{the worst}
{scioness, draynth}

What do you find scummy about TW?

it's just that a lot of his early game posting from what i read was kind of fluffing. yeah, everyone was fluffing, but the way he did it seemed to be kind of dodging having to play the game whereas other people had started playing the game at that stage.

[northsidegal]

In my understanding NSG is one of the best town players around atm

[northsidegal]

@math, can i have a votecount

i ask you because i expect that sometime during this game you setup the auto vc

[northsidegal]

zzz too lazy

Votecount 1.whatever

Oxy(4)

~ skitter30(62), the worst(314), Draynth(43), Sunshine13(40)

Scioness Sajj(3)

~ Mathdino(181), ofrhz(131), AP(85)

Draynth(3)

~ northsidegal(80), Oxy(201), ruru(114)

UglyDuck(1)

~ pinturicchio(77)

ofrhz(1)

~ UglyDuck(50)

Players dead:

Not Voting (1): Scioness Sajj(74)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-04-30 16:45:00)

[northsidegal]

i would assume that if oxy were to be being wagoned here it would be from a difference between his towngame in 1859 and his play here, but when i look at that votecount skitter is the only one who was in that game.

someone provide a shorthand of scum!oxy for me?

that scioness wagon looks enticing for my vote (in terms of the people on there), but then again so does the draynth wagon to me.

[northsidegal]

@nsg: what do you think of math's read on you?

nothing pinged me about it upon a reading.

i would have more of a read if NSG actually decided to post

tinfoil theory is that NSG is purposefully not posting in this game for exactly that reason

i expect to die tonight.

i'm kind of deliberately taking it slow here, full LEFT SHIFT should come out after some flips so i can see if i'm on the right track or desperately need to re-evaluate.

[northsidegal]

i'm sufficiently annoyed with NSG's play so far

VOTE: NSG

NSG if i die scumreading you, you get lynched 90% of the time

post some content please

you've posted a reads list and not actually taken any stances or given reasons for shit

zzz can't respond in depth right now

[northsidegal]

i'm sufficiently annoyed with NSG's play so far

VOTE: NSG

NSG if i die scumreading you, you get lynched 90% of the time

post some content please

you've posted a reads list and not actually taken any stances or given reasons for shit

I feel like my stances are pretty clear from my readslist. If you want reasons for something, just ask?

[northsidegal]

Draynth had a horrible opening (even this was enough for me to vote him), really poorly developed reads (not a comment on skill or anything, comment on apparent depth) and nothing changed that for me reading his iso.

Scioness is a meta / tone / soul read. I'm concerned the vla may be throwing that off on that which is why I'm still voting draynth, but I still think she's scum. I hope to reach a point in reading scioness similar to where rc was in reading me after my first newbie games and games after that. I'm not sure if i'm on that level yet, but I think I have perhaps a better position than anyone else for reading her, perhaps only mitigated by me replacing in instead of starting.

[northsidegal]

on my sheet so far his math-interactions are nearly as much as everyone else combined
this comes from a place of admiration & buddying, not SvS

"On my sheet"?

[northsidegal]

i really just think draynth is much more likely to be scum than oxy. i feel like it's a cogito ergo sum situation here (math might be the only one who gets this). draynth is a silently scummy person with underdeveloped reads and a scummy vote on oxy. i'll try to quote some stuff to better show what i mean.

[northsidegal]

I'll be taking all of these from newbie 1858, medical mafia.

VOTE: Unvote

We're moving out of RVS, and Rei feels like newbTown to me right now

is there anything in particular that you can point to for this

Gut, mostly.
Obviously that's pretty useless for all of you so I'll try to solidify my gut feeling into something tangible

Here Draynth says that he has just a gut read that he can't really explain. I think this kind of unexplainable feeling is something that comes from town more often than scum. I control+f-ed "feel" and "gut" in Draynth's ISO in this game. There were no uses of "gut" and only two uses of "feel" that followed the "instinctual" definition, both in 401. There were more (about 8?) uses in the other game, but perhaps it's not a fair comparison given the time differences.

What I do think is a fair comparison is how, as compared in the other game when he was fine just calling something a gut read, this game (as others have noted) he's come up with just any sort of reasining at all to describe his reads. I think the "mentioning every slot even if you don't have much to say about any one person" is a scumtell (and one that caught pintu back in Open 714), and that would be even without the reasoning point.

[northsidegal]

town: 2c, ejji, espeon
not as town: shattiel, notmaf
more not as town: draynth, rei, soulshade

townlist is the only one that i really put credence into

can you elaborate about dra, rei and soul? What makes you susp them?

draynth just doesn't have anything that makes me think town. he doesn't seem to have much of a hierarchy in reads and he's doing a lot of agreeing

rei is also just a lot of words and nothing that particularly makes me think town. i didn't like the push on 2c, 41/62, she seemed too shook for the subject matter in a way that seemed fake

ss i talked about

Just realised I find the wording of this readslist kinda strange

If myself, rei and soul are all being suspected why are we listed as 'more not as town' rather than 'slightly scummy' or whatever else

It's as if schadd doesn't want to step on any toes by calling people out as scum. Am I being too paranoid here?

can you write what do you think about shadd?

I'm not sure what I think right now

On the one hand the way he tiptoed around calling people scum is suspicious to me, his follow up post reacting to my point is along the same vein so It could just be a playstyle thing.
I'll ISO schadd now and get some more in depth thoughts

I think draynth showed obvious examples of doubt and uncertainty in his reads last game. After having reviewed his ISO here a few times, i don't think i saw a single expression of non-confidence or uncertainty. The opposite, in fact.

Anyway, Oxy is scum

VOTE: Oxy

[northsidegal]

this is kind of a tinfoil point, but one i think is still worth mentioning.

VOTE: draynth

Are you going to explain this or are you just happy to try get a free mislynch

Strongly dislike the random no reasoning schadd vote

Schadd also started talking about how he didn't think I was town at a similar time to when ejj started scumreading me. He has had little to no actual content outside of this.
I'd be happy with a wagon on him

VOTE: Schadd

this was draynth's reaction to getting pretty much naked voted by schadd in 1858. it wasn't even to L-1 or anything, it was just to put him at 2 votes when 9 were alive.

This game, he had pretty much a non reaction to my entering in, typing VOTE: DRAYNTH, putting him at the bottom of my readslist, and then multiple other people also putting him at the bottom of his readslist. He didn't ask my for any explanation. I don't think he asked anyone for an explanation. I think the only thing that could be called close to that was him not liking people considering the constant catch-up to be a scumtell.

pagetop

pedit NO

I am laughing at you for this.

I also laughed at this

Also reading mohab/nsg as town for completely nai reasons, leaving me 10 people to sort. yay.

Wait what

Him saying he will go read some cases but not doing so feels like stalling
Not voting Oxy despite the “Oxy sounds forced” narrative he’s pushing
I mean, he could be lazy town... or he could be lazy scum. He’s null at best

DOES ANYONE ELSE THINK PROMISING THINGS AND NOT DELIVERING IS A SCUMTELL

These are just two posts that I quoted while reading, there were more.
Basically everyone seems convinced that me saying I'd try to read a game to come up with meta reads and then not doing it is scummy.
A) I've already expressed that I dislike using meta personally. That doesnt excuse myself from not doing what I said I'd do mind.
B) I'm busy
C) If y'all are so obsessed with meta then why the hell have none of you done a meta check on me?

Seriously, people keep using a blanket excuse of it's old, etc. but wouldn't this solve most of the issues that people have with believing I'm town?
Like I'm happy to link games of both alignments if people aren't arsed looking through past topics.
I just find it hilarious how many people here are reading people based on meta, then refusing to do the same for me even though the biggest reason for scumreading me can easily be seen as a NAI trait in my previous games (I have a history of being super lazy when I shouldn't be).
I'm not trying to say that me doing this is a good thing, it routinely leads to me shooting myself in my foot, but it's a fact nonetheless.

Townie indignation at someone not recognizing that he's obviously town vs scum realizing that people are actually right? Like i said, kind of tinfoil, but still something worth drawing attention to, i think.

[northsidegal]

I have a game for you, answer this question:

Why is Oxy still alive?
a) He is scum, scum is stagnating his lynch
b) He is scum, Draynth is the counterwagon
c) He is scum and Dino is his partner
d) All of the above

where has the confidence come from?

[northsidegal]

read on draynth? you haven't mentioned him once.

[northsidegal]

a read on him, that is.

[northsidegal]

do you believe players who you have little to say about or who just seem to be silently skating by are more likely to be town or scum? random statistics would suggest town - in my experience, i've actually found that it's scum.

[northsidegal]

I'm kinda getting cold feet wrt the oxy wagon.

I guess I dislike the draynth wagon less right now though?

But I don't really think that a lack of content/flaking is AI for him; nor is promising content and not following through. A quick meta-dive shows him flaking/replacing out of towngames.

DOES ANYONE ELSE THINK PROMISING THINGS AND NOT DELIVERING IS A SCUMTELL

#NOBAMBOOZLE

And, like, this isn't for draynth

He got lynched as town day4 in the Newbie 1858; repped out after a week of low content as town in open 692 (made some of those 'I'm reading now, sorry for the inactivity' posts without following through ); did the same in Newbie 1822 as town; got nk'd n1 in newbie 1820; got nk'd n1 in newbie 1817 (his ISO looks fairly active and contributing here); got lynched day4 in lylo as town in newbie 1811 (shared some self-meta here, and was fairly involved and contributing); jumped to scum!draynth in newbie 1803 cuz I got bored - had a few of the 'sorry for inactivity posts', was fairly active otherwise, was present but his content looked kinda empty; looking at some older games he got replaced by the mod for inactivity as town without asking to be replaced.

Like I just don't know if the lack of content is AI for him.

And a metadive indicates that the above *isn't* a scumtell for him; it's an 'I'm busy in real-life' tell and not AI.

And like from *Math* to push that without checking is pretty gross and lazy.

VOTE: Math

Never once have I said that him promising content and not delivering or him just being not active in general makes him scum.

[northsidegal]

Yeah I'm tearing my hair out on EOD Skitter. On one hand voting you like that struck me as ridiculous from scum!skitter but otoh it felt like she hadnt read everything properly...?

It was definitely an NSG case
I don't think I'm actually convinced by it, felt very much like fitting evidence to a theory rather than vice versa

Math how would you feel if I said I think one of you and skitter is scum and I have no idea currently which one it is

welcome to NSG cases

i would say you have about a 60% chance of being wrong because skitter is only about 40% scum to me

i resent this.

[northsidegal]

perhaps instead of simply calling my case bad, you could explain where you disagree or where what i said doesn't seem valid to you.

[northsidegal]

cases are scummy


On a serious note, while i appreciate the humor, that's not actually a response.

[northsidegal]

I'm not asking you to comment on my alignment. I'm asking you to justify your belief in the validity of my case.

[northsidegal]

The lack of validity, rather.

[northsidegal]

What would you like to know?

[northsidegal]

i'm not really convinced that oxy is scum, if that's what you're asking.

the scioness wagon seems nonexistant to me looking at the latest votecount, so i'm inclined to say no?

[northsidegal]

Would rather not

[northsidegal]

Why are we voting math

[northsidegal]

Hm. With draynth and scioness being unlikely lynches today, that kind of leaves me without a lot of direction.

Here's an idea.
VOTE: pintu

[northsidegal]

Alright then.

[northsidegal]

did you think AP was a PR and now think that he's significantly less likely to be a PR due to 2 PR claims

i thought this

[northsidegal]

skitter and Dino cooperating? What a plot twist amirite or amirite fellas? I'll give 100% credit to my Haiku.

Yo Ho, Yo Ho, a tinfoil's hat for me! Uglyduck and Sunshine are scum together, don't know who the last one is!

not forgiving you if pintu is scum math

i guess we can call it even for 1859

(even though i came around to scumreading him as the game was winding down)

[northsidegal]

not hugely for that post specifically

just in general, and that was an opportunity for me to mention that thought i had to math

[northsidegal]

as long as we're desperately searching for compromise wagons, i think UD is a better one than most.

VOTE: uglyduck

[northsidegal]

It seems the most likely to me that a jailkeeper exists and that draynth is scum.

[northsidegal]

@nsg @skitter
This theory assumes that the jk targeted draynth, right?
And in doing so, the jk must have believed draynth was scum, otherwise they were trying to stop vig!Draynth or 1shotcop! Draynth from using their role?

No? I'm not sure where you get that assumption from at all.

[northsidegal]

If there’s a jk, it would probably mean there were no scum on math’s wagon as to avoid him outing himself.

Explain?

Contextually appropriate play would be to protect math, meaning scum would be looking for the jk. You have a 1 in 3 chance of blocking the kill, versus a guarantee of protecting town.

Would scum be silly enough to put an IC and a jk in the game though?

I think it may have been suggested last time I was scum in a pick your poison game, don't really remember.

[northsidegal]

Yeah nevermind don't bother explaining you already realized. Never do gamma-style catchups kids.

[northsidegal]

I'm more convinced about the idea of living Dino alive because he wasn't townreading NSG, implying that they want to mislynch NSG today

I think i've been mislynched maybe once this entire year. if that's their plan, it's not going to work out.

[northsidegal]

I mean, draynth is scum, right?

Like, why isn't he dead.

[northsidegal]

I think it's far more likely that the reason scum didn't kill math is because a jailkeeper exists in the setup rather than that he doesn't have good reads, unless math is very, very deep within scum's pockets.

[northsidegal]

I'm more convinced about the idea of living Dino alive because he wasn't townreading NSG, implying that they want to mislynch NSG today

I think i've been mislynched maybe once this entire year. if that's their plan, it's not going to work out.

Why would scum know that? We've talked about how great is Dino at reading you, so given that info, it's not crazy to believe that scum thought they could mislynch you with Dino leading the wagon.

Btw, I'm townreading you, if you didn't noticed already

I'm not saying that they don't believe that - they very well could.

What i'm saying is that

if

it's their plan, it's not going to happen.

[northsidegal]

also, I think I'm on the town!nsg train.

I don't see a reason why this would be the game that scum!nsg chooses to keep IC!dino alive just to prove she can pull the rug over his eyes.

i mean, i'd have to do it

sometime

, and given how infrequently i roll scum...

I don't think this is a correct to townread me though. I still don't believe that not killing mathdino was for any reason except a jailkeeper existing. It's entirely possible that we're all thinking one level removed from what scum is thinking in terms of their decision making process (the primary mistake i see people make when doing NKA), but i seriously doubt scum were thinking on any level other than prioritizing killing PRs before anything else.

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{Mathdino
{ruru}
{AP, sunshine13, Oxy, skitter13} <- could probably be sorted more specifically but probably not entirely relevant
{pinturicchio, uglyduck}
{scioness, draynth}

[northsidegal]

NSG how am i a tier below you wtf

Maybe brass is just making a

serious

moderator error.

[northsidegal]

ok fine i basically ignore the top sections of readslist and i was just switching things around from a draft i had saved earlier

{nsg, Mathdino}
{ruru}
{AP, sunshine13, Oxy, skitter13} <- could probably be sorted more specifically but probably not entirely relevant
{pinturicchio, uglyduck}
{scioness, draynth}

[northsidegal]

i honestly just need them all to post more. my three main scum suspects are all low-posters.

[northsidegal]

Hmm, what was that quote about paraphrasing a role pm vs fabricating a fakeclaim again?

[northsidegal]

if draynth is scum, scum is bussing him

too many townies offwagon

Who would you put in that "scum bussing him" pool?

I want to say more in response to this, give me ~20 minutes

[northsidegal]

if draynth is scum, scum is bussing him

too many townies offwagon

Alright, so i agree with you in the sense that my current view of who scum are is NM, Draynth and then someone else (who i'm probably leaning towards being uglyduck?), and per those reads NM is voting Draynth right now. When you say this i get the implication that you would think there's more than one scum on draynth right now, which i guess i could see but i don't overly see a particular reason to.

Like, Draynth being basically the only wagon is interesting, but in terms of AI-ness i think it's still consistent with lurker scum who are unable to actually influence the game state.

i guess i thought i had more to say than i actually do.

[northsidegal]

do you need to be subtle when you're telling someone that you're town

[northsidegal]

zzz waiting for my scumreads to actually be here

[northsidegal]

math have you realized that i'm town yet

[northsidegal]

go back and look at mohab and his meta

[northsidegal]

math is wrong, it's pronounced "bow"

[northsidegal]

how would you shoot me with the front of a ship?

[northsidegal]

D

E

A

R

D

R

A

Y

N

T

H

,

W

H

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O

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S

E

E

T

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I

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F

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[northsidegal]

man, all of the 2018 newbies really haven't seen my terrible scumgame, have they?

[northsidegal]

i'm glad we can finally kill draynth

[northsidegal]

i hope it's draynth/NM/uglyduck so that i was right

maybe it's not uglyduck though, if i'm wrong on one i think it'd be him

[northsidegal]

why are people saying that we don't lynch draynth today?

[northsidegal]

i hope it's draynth/NM/uglyduck so that i was right

maybe it's not uglyduck though, if i'm wrong on one i think it'd be him

You were scumreading me too!! Second game you're wrong about me, now you have to tell me that wonderful metaread you have on me! It's a siterule, I read it somewhere

i didn't actually apply it this game because i replaced in

if i had applied it it would've actually pointed to you being town though i think? i guess i should've trusted it.

[northsidegal]

draynth is already basically confirmed scum, i think the idea that they "can't" kill you is a little silly.

[northsidegal]

hm

[northsidegal]

maybe we should try something cute with leaving draynth alive?

[northsidegal]

like, maybe lynching NM and saying that draynth has to jailkeep skitter is the way to go.

[northsidegal]

If Scum kill the JK Skitter is toast. If they kill Skitter Draynth is toast.

these both rely on assuming that pintu is town

if we lynch NM and tell draynth to jailkeep skitter, that puts scum in the scenario of either confscuming one of themselves by shooting skitter or allowing skitter to get another track (assuming that draynth is lying)

i guess maybe we really should just lynch draynth, huh?

VOTE: draynth

[northsidegal]

why don't scum just kill skitter in that plan?

[northsidegal]

why don't scum just kill skitter in that plan?

Cuz I'm draynth's cc and when I flip tracker he's getting lynched

I mean, tracker isn't a counterclaim to jailkeeper. They could both theoretically exist and pintu would be the one fakeclaiming. It wouldn't be mechanically confirmed.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: not_mafia

i wonder if open 711 "no we can't lynch scum today we have to wait three days" will happen again

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

oh wait it's twilight anyways

[northsidegal]

Do we have forced victory with lynching draynth today and me pintu math ruru all being unambiguous town?

[northsidegal]

I'm pretty sure everyone in 1859 was meta townreading ruru

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

LOL do you really think you had 2 scum (draynth + me) at L-2 on d1?

It's not impossible, open 714 is an example.

Not that I necessarily scumread you, just that this isn't valid.

[northsidegal]

Been having good games recently.


Good game town, thanks for hosting brass!

[northsidegal]

I'm also going to plug joining the games in the Open Queue, I have already inned to mod Watchmen Wanted, but we need players like all of you to join the games there right now to move forward.

!!!

Great setup, wanted to either run or play that one myself soon!

[northsidegal]

Seems like fewer and fewer people onsite actually enjoy being scum.

[northsidegal]

gg, everybody! thanks for hosting brass!

sorry I have replaced without the word but brass didn't want me to post after I requested replacement and sorry scum team shouldn't have probably give Mohab the idea of replacing out, it was not an optimal scum strategy you can blame the loss on me :')

hope to see you again, scioness (and we're the same alignment)! we didn't really get to interact much this game.

[northsidegal]

so, what's the next game we're all signing up for together?

i wonder how long we could keep the train going. it'd certainly be an exercise in improving all of our meta reads, and probably in improving scumgames?

[northsidegal]

multiball :<

[northsidegal]

i'm in purgatory in a hydra with RC

[northsidegal]

oh, i hit 5000 posts sometime and didn't even notice.

[northsidegal]

I'm concerned though, the worst is rapidly catching up to me despite coming back a few months after me