Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[northsidegal]

VOTE: zoronos

[northsidegal]

stop voting me, i'm town.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: Zoronos

This is serious though

meh, i townlean him.

[northsidegal]

Ooh no I was taking that as NAI

UNVOTE:

what?

taking what?

[northsidegal]

JJ, explain what made you unvote?

[northsidegal]

like, i don't understand your progression there.

[northsidegal]

Worth noting that NSG is more interested in me than her wagon?

what do you make of it?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: pinturicchio

[northsidegal]

i'm going to wait at least until everyone (or most everyone) checks in to discuss reads.

[northsidegal]

Acknowledged.

I shall continue journaling to myself.

Dear dairy,

Today ruru and pintu RVS’ed after there was content to read. I’m curious if they did so on purpose.
Pintu’s vote response may have been knowledge of guilty intent but that’s a thin read.
I wonder why ruru chose ofrhz, maybe because he sheeped a wagon in RVS instead of starting a new one, so I’m mistaking a serious but naked vote for an RVS vote.

Your pal,
Zor

i think you should take a step back from the thread for a moment

[northsidegal]

he doesn't

[northsidegal]

Okay, NSG is town

where does that come from?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: jjh

[northsidegal]

but seriously, i think jjh is scum. given his reasoning for unvoting zoronos in 31 i don't even understand why he was voting him in the first place.

i don't get why he even brings up me being more interested in him than in my own wagon if he doesn't have any conclusion to draw from it. i don't see how it's "worth noting" in the first place, then?

i also think his vote on blackstar for blackstar voting zoronos is kind of an awkward white knight. sure, zoronos looks kind of towny here, but i'm not sure if these were entirely warranted:

VOTE: BlackStar

That's how you get to happen. He's been an extremely positive presence in getting out of RVS

Looks more legit to me than what you're saying

[northsidegal]

this is also worth noting - the vote on pintu was essentially RVS at a point where serious things were being discussed and

and

after he said that he prefers to break away from RVS sooner as a justification for his initial vote on zor.

I think the faster we break away from RVS, the better, and to do that generally involves making a mountain out of a molehill and then stripmining that mountain for its precious content

No idea what I'm making of it yet


VOTE: Pintu

Mr Blue Sky!

[northsidegal]

Oi NSG, we can talk in real time or I can just tell you why you're wrong

sure, let's chat.

[northsidegal]

zoronos, tell me about your read on pintu. just talk about it, any thoughts you have, anything you've been doing to sort him, etc.

[northsidegal]

If you don't get why I voted Zor, you don't understand the whole making a mountain out of a molehill thing. My general RVS philosophy involves making votes and trying to make them convey more pressure than they reasonably should, as this helps to generate content. This was the purpose of the Zor vote. This is why I said it was serious when it really wasn't that serious.

i'm fine with you saying your vote was serious when it wasn't as a method to get out of RVS: what i don't understand is, given that philosophy, then unvoting and immediately placing a random vote that doesn't accomplish towards that purpose.

it doesn't seem like an actual sort, or perhaps it's too easy of one - once you understood what he said, unvoting and just calling him town and moving on to an RVS vote makes no sense to me, especially as reflected on later with your vote on blackstar / defense of zor. were you really that confident in him being town just from what he said there?

explain your blackstar scumread?

I'm not sure if you were scouting me out as potential lhf or if that's even your kind of jam as scum. I kinda like the look of the motivation behind your case but there's the distinct possibility of it instead being the result of this, which was what I was kinda conscious of. You were also a pretty big rvs wagon and would be looking for somewhere for people to shift votes to when things became serious. There are at least a couple of people in the game who probably understand that I'm not actually easy ot mislynch at all, but I sometimes get wagoned early on by people who haven't played with me before. It's difficult for me to see town or scum motivation in that, especially with how long it's been since I actually played an RVS.

i don't know what "lhf" means, but why not bring

any

of this up when i asked you what you made of it?

[northsidegal]

Do you feel that falls into the same play pattern that jjh is being accused of, or is his question different? That is, do you feel ofrhz was asking a loaded question, or a non-loaded question?

asking "why zoronos" is leagues different from what jjh did. it's an attempt to understand, not an attempt to defend you while attacking blackstar. i'm really not sure how you look at them as being comparable.

[northsidegal]

I had trouble following / agreeing with her 105. She calls out JJH's 41 (a vote on Pintu) for being 'essentially RVS', but she herself had voted Pintu in 37. I specifically commented on her vote in 44 with my impression / guess at why she might be voting him. So, if her vote in 37 is a legit strike, why is 41 essentially RVS? Is it the inclusion of the phrase 'Mr Blue Sky' when she had naked voted?

41 is essentially RVS because jjh had no apparent serious reasoning for voting pintu and, as he has now confirmed, no non-stated reason for voting him. my vote was naked, but it wasn't RVS.

Alternatively, she is purposefully RVS'ing at that stage, and assumes JJH is as well, and the problem isn't the RVS vote itself, but the hypocrisy as contrasted to JJH's prior comments about getting out of RVS.

NSG had notes that she had trouble following JJH's progression when he voted me in 17 -> unvoted me in 24. I personally had no trouble understanding JJH's line of thinking. I didn't really explain my question until after his initial answer, so I can see a progression of 'That's a dumb question, vote' to 'Ooohhhh that's not a dumb question unvote'. He said as much in 21. If I put myself in JJH's shoes, it doesn't take me a huge struggle to figure out why he might react as he did in that sequence if he believes we 'should' still be in RVS.

what i don't understand is his behavior after that.

Her last point, that she didn't get why JJH brought up that NSG was more interested in him than in the wagon on her does give me some pause, but I don't know what to make of either side of it.
JJH said "Worth noting that NSG is more interested in me than her wagon?". Which doesn't seem like a question, but has a question mark in it. So I'm not really sure who it was directed to in the first place. So I can totally understand NSG's confusion about it, but I'm a little on the 'so what' side of things there. I mostly ignored the wagon on me, as ruru noted a couple pages ago, so I'm not super surprised that NSG ignored the wagon on her, nor am I super surprised that it got brought up (again, ruru brought up that I ignored the wagon on me). The only thing about it that perplexes me is the question mark.

i thought the scumminess of bringing up a talking point that might be taken as a scumtell for me but without actually having any sort of thoughts about it was obvious.

[northsidegal]

I voted pintu because I wasn't voting anyone and it couldn't do any harm

this reasoning doesn't make sense to me coming from someone who believes that we should move out of RVS quickly and who takes steps to do so.

I don't really scumread blackstar, so to speak. Maybe a lean? I voted because he was scumreading Zor, and the reasoning on that (specifically having two reasons, one being a crappy RVS reason and the other being a crappy attempted reason) is bad. And I'm still voting there because nothing better has shown up.

well, you voted him before he explained any of his reasoning, so his reasoning itself can't have been the reason you voted him in the first place. you must have voted him initially

just

because he voted zor. or is there something i'm overlooking?


what do you think scum!blackstar sees as a strategy in voting someone people generally consider to be a townread and giving what anyone (even himself) can see is pretty weak reasoning?

[northsidegal]

Would NSG be aware that jjh has a reputation for being super obvtown as town? I, as scum in this playerlist, would absolutely not be trying to lynch jjh of all people.

math, i'm town this game, don't waste time thinking about it.

I'm feeling mafia-lazy. Someone give me a read on ruru to sheep?

i think she's probably town as of now.

[northsidegal]

math, i'm town this game, don't waste time thinking about it.

yeah but that's how you'd talk to me if you were scum

so why waste your time saying NAI things

i don't think i've ever said that to you as scum (to anyone, perhaps?)

...not that i never

would

, or anything

(i'm not trust telling, just thinking about it)

[northsidegal]

zor feels solidly out of a "player returning from hiatus" scumrange
but i also have only skimmed his ISO because lordy i am not reading all of that

what are the cool wagons? can i chainsaw defend zor and/or ruru?

he's played another game recently, mini normal 2005

recommended reading to everyone here, for more reasons than one

[northsidegal]

i have a general tell that's been working pretty well for me in the past few games, but nothing like that as of yet.

[northsidegal]

{HeWhoSwims, pinturicchio, ruru, Zoronos, BlackStar, HitAlt}
{Mathdino, ofrhz, the worst, jjh927, davesaz, Something_Smart

[northsidegal]

hmm

[northsidegal]

Just kidding

VOTE: BlackStar

i think your first vote was better, honestly.

[northsidegal]

i can definitely join this

VOTE: ofrhz

[northsidegal]

i pity people unaware of the team mafia inside jokes

[northsidegal]

i think it's probably just NAI.

it's only been ~24 hours since his post - really no reason to be thinking about a replacement.

[northsidegal]

mostly elli-tell for me

it was a read i was prepared to leave alone and see how it developed during the day, still up for that so i guess i'd prefer to not explain anything further if it's not necessary.

[northsidegal]

Why does ellitell have 2 definitions smh

It's basically stalking someone until you have a secret meta tell on them

meh, i think that's a bad definition for it honestly, and the one i was using was the original

oohhhhh ok, someone said it was the posting elsewhere on site thing. that seemed pissweak for Elli.

no, you had it right

[northsidegal]

Okay, BlackStar was not lying about not reading the thread

what makes you say this? i don't think the worst is so obviously town as to warrant this - in fact, i think blackstar is probably townier.

[northsidegal]

how does the worst have more global posts than me????

[northsidegal]

Like we're 15 pages in and I just kinda feel like nothing happened and I'm bored

Like I need RC flaming me or something so I can get into the game more

I feel like you were experiencing this too at least a few pages ago

i mean, with the exception of the worst, everyone on the lower tier of my list in 211 is also among the lower half when it comes to postcount.

i guess i've been going more for the "sit back and wait for scum to out themselves", but i can try to switch that up if it'll be more effective. just give me a second.

[northsidegal]

First order of business:

Blackstar voters, justify yourself.

I'm feeling pretty good about blackstar being town here. He's definitely going against the seeming "consensus opinion", but i fail to see where the "scum" part of that comes in. In fact, it's the opposite to me – he really doesn't seem to be concerned all that much with his own appearance. His thoughts and votes get him scumread, but they all feel totally real to me. I think a good example of what i'm trying to say is in his entrance with the vote on zoronos. as seen from the reactions it was definitely an "against the grain" move, but again, it all felt like completely real things that he actually thought:

Spoiler:

Wow, I didn't expect the game to start today

VOTE: zoronos

why zoronos?

His posts are too long

His posts are too long

We're not in RVS anymore...

It feels like he's trying too hard even though nothing has happened

It just feels artificial to me for some reason

'kay

BlackStar - let’s chat. Is there an opinion of mine you disagree with or that is confusing which I can clarify for you?

No, you brought up some good points. You just give off a weird vibe. It's like someone thought about the ideal way for a town member to post and then designed a program that wrote posts like that for them. Just doesn't feel right

and, reading the thread myself, i can

see

where his thought is coming from.


i get a strange feeling that blackstar could be sorted pretty realiably using a spreadsheet (math probably knows what i'm talking about), but just on his play here i'm feeling pretty good about him being town.

[northsidegal]

@Other Open 721-ers

Thoughts on ofhrz here as compared to last game? Correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i remember in both of the games i've played with him people just considered him obviously town – obviously town to the point where i don't think i've ever really expended that much effort trying to read him, i just wrote him off as town.

Is the fact that i can't really write him off as town yet meaningful?

Elli-tell still seems valid here as well. He really hasn't been much of a presence so far – i should go back and check open 721 and 1859's early game postcount there to compare. (this is something math might want to do / have done already as well)

[northsidegal]

how confident are you in scum!ofrhz? I'm starting to feel like I might be being stupid.

i'm not anywhere near confident yet, but he's definitely got my attention.

this is kind of why i was doing the "taking it slow" route, because i'm not sure how much my making all of this clear will change his behavior such that it'd be unreadable, but i think doing this is necessary for the gamestate right now at the very least.

[northsidegal]

pretty much read his early game as busywork and thought his vote on me was terrible

What about compared to hitalt's vote?

What's your read on hitalt right now?

[northsidegal]

this is kind of why i was doing the "taking it slow" route, because i'm not sure how much my making all of this clear will change his behavior such that it'd be unreadable, but i think doing this is necessary for the gamestate right now at the very least.

Yeah, this is like precisely one of the reasons why the game is awful

?

because people are lurking or because of my strategy?

[northsidegal]

Because I think your strategy is kind of optimal

solution: lynch all lurkers

[northsidegal]

Because I think your strategy is kind of optimal

solution: lynch all lurkers

i'm only half-joking with this, by the way. if we want to use the "let scum incriminate themselves" strategy, then naked voting lurkers up to a decently sized wagon serves to get them to post more while also not necessarily revealing the reasons behind a scumread.

[northsidegal]

how does mhsmith put it? sort by postcount, become werewolf expert?

[northsidegal]

@NSG you're pretty talkative in this game compared to all the other games I've played with you. Wanna jam?

i'm not exactly sure what that implies, but i think i'm probably okay with it.

[northsidegal]

I mean let's talk. You usually don't talk too much, you just give your reads, but here you're talking, and I want to talk with you 'cause you have good early reads.

i'm not sure yet if the more talkative style that used to be me every game or the more concise "sit back" style is more effective. certainly the sit-back style has been mostly what i've been using my past few towngames, but i'm not sure if there's some kind of rule there yet.

perhaps there's no universal "best", and it depends from game to game.

@NSG you're pretty talkative in this game compared to all the other games I've played with you. Wanna jam?

i'm not exactly sure what that implies, but i think i'm probably okay with it.

Interested in if your jjh read progressed and in a Mathdino read

there hasn't been much to progress my jjh read, honestly – others have said that he generally obvtowns as town and he seems to be busy and hasn't responded to what i last said (unless i've missed it), so as of now it's another waiting game.

i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.

[northsidegal]

i guess there's something to be said about having the default being a townread and needing to justify

scumreading

instead of justify townreading, but i feel enough towny-pings from the people in the upper tier that subverting what basic probability would say (more people are town ergo any random person is more likely to be town than scum so a town default makes more sense) doesn't feel too bad.

[northsidegal]

i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.

His activity isn't really AI right? I feel like his scum meta that I've read previously was like all power wolfing

Also I mean we're not wagoning the dinosaur d1 right like who does that

nope, i don't believe that it is – never meant to imply it was.

@NSG playstyle effectiveness varies from game to game, absolutely. I'm playing absolutely different of what I usually do 'cause Zoronos started pretty serious and I had no time to be fluffy, maybe with time I'll get my chance to meme.

Here's a tricky question for you: Mathdino claims to be pretty good at reading you, which implies that he have read a lot of games where you've been and that he has played a lot of games with you too. Do you feel the same way? How good are you at reading Mathdino?

no, i don't necessarily think it's reciprocal – at least, not yet. i need to learn from ellibereth because he has reading math down to apparently creature-levels of easy, but i'm not necessarily at the same point for him that he (claims to be ) at for me.

that being said, my only real game with scum!math is still ongoing, so i'm actually not all that sure if what i'm saying is even right – maybe i

would be

good at catching scum math, but i just don't know about it yet.

[northsidegal]

I’m a little worried that NSG isn’t as rapid about prosecutin her scum case as in 2005 but maybe that’s because she’s setting a clever trap idk she mentioned that the other day, but the raw emotional intensity is missing so I’m concerned. Or maybe she’s just not sure yet but I have concerns.

i made that alt in the first place to play differently. you probably shouldn't be expecting similar play.

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{BlackStar, ruru}
{davesaz, Zoronos}
{HeWhoSwims, pinturicchio}
{Mathdino, the worst, HitAlt}
{ofrhz, jjh927, Something_Smart}

strangely enough, despite the positioning i feel like if i'm wrong on any one of these it'd be within the {davesaz, zoronos} group.

[northsidegal]

if i'm wrong a townread, that is.

[northsidegal]

The newbie 1859 / open 721 - crew's read, I guess. Mainly pintu, though.

[northsidegal]

@Dino I know you don't like gutreads or at least is the worst type of reads from your perspective along with cold meta, but I played a long ass game being her scumpartner and until I see another game where she's scum, I will say I have an ability to read her towngames with a probability of 100%

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{BlackStar, ruru}

Crazy bout a northside gal

It also seems ruru and I agree on the bottom of our readslist.

[northsidegal]

Yeah, I guess I might change this list to maybe have pintu one tier lower. I always seem to paranoia-read him, though

{nsg}
{BlackStar, ruru}
{davesaz, Zoronos}
{HeWhoSwims, pinturicchio}
{Mathdino, the worst, HitAlt}
{ofrhz, jjh927, Something_Smart}

strangely enough, despite the positioning i feel like if i'm wrong on any one of these it'd be within the {davesaz, zoronos} group.

[northsidegal]

Math thoughts on the ability to spreadsheet-read blackstar?

[northsidegal]

Wow pedited

[northsidegal]

Should I be?

[northsidegal]

Someone want to fill me in on what 'WK / WKing' means?

Didn't I use this exact term earlier when describing jjh and his defense of you?

[northsidegal]

See: wisdom

[northsidegal]

BOP is burden of proficiency aka: no matter how long you've been around here or how much your town game is praised, your reads may still be shit this game (as far as I understand it)

I think burden of proficiency is more like "this person's towngame is good enough to the point where if they don't catch scum then it means

they're

likely scum."

[northsidegal]

I should always be the final duck tbh because I am the end

why do you townread ofrhz?

[northsidegal]

It seems like jjh is defending ofrhz really hard and his reasons feel weak to me

I saw this too. Perhaps too surface level a conclusion, but at least worth noting.

[northsidegal]

By the way, I can see scum!ducky here as well, but I'm not sure if he's the best day one lynch or not. Guess it depends on other people's confidence.

I used to be able to meta read the worst but I think I lost all that knowledge after he changed his avatar to the duck and not the thing it used to be. Kind of weird.

[northsidegal]

By the way, I can see scum!ducky here as well, but I'm

not sure if he's the best day one lynch or not.

Guess it depends on other people's confidence.

Absolutely lynch him today.
And add NSG to the potential list of buddies when he flips scum.
I was wondering who could complete the trio.

lol

[northsidegal]

it always makes me laugh when people accuse me of the most surface-level associatives possible. happened in partition mafia, too.

[northsidegal]

I don't believe that a strong scumread on me is questionable because I'm obviously town-- if that were the case, I'd write something closer to the latter. Instead, I believe that a strong scumread on me is questionable because I haven't given enough content to be readable that confidently, in which case my guilt or innocence is actually irrelevant.

my readslist doesn't put you at a strong scumread, it's just an ordered list.

[northsidegal]

"not town yet"

[northsidegal]

i'm interested in your reaction this game as compared to mini normal 2005.

why are you confused / upset at your position now when you think you haven't done anything AI yet when in mini normal 2005 you were confident you were already playing to your towngame?

[northsidegal]

That's a weird category to have as the lowest... it kind of implies that you intend for everyone to become a townread of some degree, which would cheapen them to the point of being worthless.

i mean, everyone in the game is town except three people

and i have three people in the bottom of my readslist

so -shrug-, it makes sense to me

it's not that the "category" is "not town yet", it's that my personal read on you is that you aren't town yet. that's grouped with ofrhz and jjh who i think have a decent chance of being scum.

just how i organize my thoughts.

In any event, I don't scumread you anymore, though I would suggest that you take a little different of an approach to tier-based readlists. (Especially since with so many tiers it's natural to assume that the bottom few are scumreads, and the bottom one at least decently strong.)

it's seemed to work out pretty well for me in the past. at any rate, i've had two scum in the bottom of my readslist day 1 the last two open games i've played.

unless you just mean to improve the clarity for other people, in which case i guess you might be right - i seem to get questioned about it more often than i would expect.

[northsidegal]

what changed your read on me?

[northsidegal]

it's not necessarily that i focus on townreads before scumreads - that's not true. it's just me keeping a low level of confidence in my scumreads.

the effectiveness of which i'm not entirely sure of yet, but what i

do

know are the negative consequences of

overconfidence

- i know them firsthand, actually (

still

mad about partition mafia).

[northsidegal]

which is to say that i think there are perfectly valid reasons to scumread you, but i wouldn't feel comfortable saying "something_smart is definitely scum" off of just what was in the thread before.

like, i think a scumread on you was/is perfectly valid, but i wouldn't do

too

much to act on it without more data, so to speak.

i think that makes sense.

[northsidegal]

i think this conversation might be exiting the realm of in-game relevance, but it's not as if i'd enter into the game with the mindset of scumreading you until you proved yourself to be town. i guess it's just that your early posting lacked any signs of town in such a way that made them scum indicative. i guess that seems like it contradicts my first sentence there, although i think in general posting that "lacks town" from someone you might expect to be able to townread is very easily scum indicative (perhaps even more scum-indicative than people's regular scumreads - i find in general that people tend to nullread quiet scum and scumread townies who do outrageous things, game after game).

[northsidegal]

I would expect at least one out of ten townreads to be wrong

[northsidegal]

meh, thinking that ofrhz might be town.

VOTE: jjh

[northsidegal]

i forget exactly where it was but i read a jjh/worst interaction that felt like theater

worth looking at perhaps.

[northsidegal]

interesting wagon formations we've got here

[northsidegal]

what's on your mind?

-shrug-

wondering how confident i can really be in my reads

what i have right now

feels

right, i guess just now i'm waiting for either confirmation or the harsh sting of rejection

[northsidegal]

I mean all 3 are pretty scummy
The chance that we're getting snowed is hilariously low

stranger things have happened

[northsidegal]

@Mod, prod jjh?

[northsidegal]

what's your read on hewhoswims?

[northsidegal]

Math: my notes have odds of scum JJH+the worst being low odds. Did your read on the worst change or is this a compromise towards wagon unification?

i'm interested to hear why.

[northsidegal]

why you have them being partnered at low odds, that is.

[northsidegal]

For the record I read somewhere in HWS's meta that he often gets mislynched as town

is that true?

i might have to adjust how i read him, then.

[northsidegal]

meh, i thought a few of their interactions looked specifically like scum theater, but i guess this is probably a conversation that's better had after we've actually had a flip.

[northsidegal]

NSG is being surprisingly incompetent from my pov, the worst is scum, mathdino should know better, IDK shit about ruru

what about my play has been incompetent, even from your own point of view?

are you saying that you've played to your town meta this game such that a knowledge of it would mean that i would be townreading you?

[northsidegal]

no, i really haven't been tunneling them, at least not in the sense of screaming for people to follow me.

you didn't answer my question about whether or not my vote is reasonable from my perspective. you saying that my vote is wrong just from your perspective is meaningless - if you're going to say that i'm being incompetent, then my vote has to be unreasonable, it can't just be wrong.

like, let's posit that there was some "theoretical scumgame" and a person played exactly to it, even if they were town. would you call someone who voted that person incompetent just for being wrong even if their reasons were right?

[northsidegal]

even from your own perspective of (theoretically) knowing that you're town, unless you think there are reasons that from

my

perspective i should be townreading you and i'm just not seeing those reasons, you can't say that i'm being incompetent for just being wrong. i'm not psychic.

[northsidegal]

i'm also kind of curious why specifically you said that about me when we're in agreement about the worst having a pretty good chance of being scum and when i've taken back my ofhrz scumread

[northsidegal]

It feels like we're just wasting time until the deadline. Speculation is cool and all, but its easier to make solid connections and cases after we lynch someone. So lets just do that already

i agree with this. it feels like we're waiting on something that just isn't coming.

i'd like to hear some specific thoughts on what the people off of the jjh wagon are doing / think of that wagon.

[northsidegal]

It feels like we're just wasting time until the deadline. Speculation is cool and all, but its easier to make solid connections and cases after we lynch someone. So lets just do that already

i agree with this. it feels like we're waiting on something that just isn't coming.

i'd like to hear some specific thoughts on what the people off of the jjh wagon are doing / think of that wagon.

It feels like some people just voted for him because they saw the momentum and not because they actually felt he was scum

who?

[northsidegal]

I thought he was scummy earlier, but his outrage over his lynch feels like it's coming from town. Also, nobody really seems to care if he gets lynched and nobody is pushing for a counter wagon so I don't think he'll flip scum.

it's not that i don't care if he gets lynched, i've kind of been waiting to see if anybody off the wagon would do anything at all

i feel like we're just going to be back at this exact same point tomorrow if we do some compromise here.

JJH hasn't towned to me in the slightest, and with his soft i want him to claim so that we still have time to do anything if he

does

claim a PR.

[northsidegal]

by the way, the "nobody is pushing for a counterwagon" assumes both that scum aren't bussing and that scum are active enough and have enough ability to actually push a counterwagon in the first place. i really don't think it's a good reason to start townreading someone you otherwise don't townread at all.

[northsidegal]

it's certainly possible that scum are just content with this being the default lynch and so that's the reason for the stall, but it doesn't feel that way to me.

[northsidegal]

by the way, for someone who's softed PR, JJH really does not seem to care about making himself town and getting the wagon off of him.

instead of just doing things like making a case, it's:

I guess I could properly case the worst if that would help

[northsidegal]

i also have yet to really look through JJH's meta, but if i find that in his town games he

doesn't

do this "one liners only and not really all that engaged with this game"...

i don't actually know what i'm going to do. sigh loudly to myself, i guess.

[northsidegal]

thinking about it i'm getting slightly bad feelings about math but i'm not sure how much of the "low-activity math" phase we're still in

[northsidegal]

i don't think JJH has quoted to respond to a single thing this game that didn't directly mention him or ask him a question. if someone can find me an example of this - i'm being completely sincere here - i would be interested to see it.

[northsidegal]

i could've sworn it happened

might be confusing my ducks actually

[northsidegal]

yeah, mixed my ducks up.

[northsidegal]

nsg how confident are you on blackstar town atm?

reasonably so

it's a read based mainly off of his play this game and without any meta so there's an element there that some of my other reads lack but at the very least there are people who i definitely think should be lynched first barring some revelation or dramatic shift in play.

[northsidegal]

i don't cc.

[northsidegal]

i would always trade a PR for confscum.

[northsidegal]

i can talk more later today.

[northsidegal]

I don't know why I'm posting instead of voting.
I'm just a little in shock that Jailkeeper is the fake claim.
Anyone have further discussion they want to have before I drop the hammer?

At your service.

pedit: same. Why not fakeclaim cop or vig?

He's known for his mechanical play so the assumption is that if he were scum, he would tell his teammates to make optimal claims

I don't believe it because I'm pretty sure that's what scum would do

Anyway I still find this odd, could be tmi

claiming anything other than jailkeeper allows town to do the "jailkeeper flips two coins" or whatever, and then scum has to gamble on whether or not to actually shoot the cop or vig. I don't see it as suboptimal.

[northsidegal]

this was the interaction

Spoiler:

I see that MathDino isn't cleared yet either. (although I still enjoy their posting very much)
Good for us in the end I think.
Scum will have to show some of their hand when they kill if we refuse to lock anyone as town.

Tell me when you guys agree that the worst can be lynched today, and I'll be around to unvote at L-1. (???)

Preflips are bad, Math voting me is questionable, I don't know what IIoA means and the worst is still a really good lynch rn

incorrect and we need to focus elsewhere

also

╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮

You're still on ofhrz, which is still bad and one of the main reasons I scumread you

Who else do you think is scum

Have you read my posts? srs quessun

Have you read my posts? srs quessun

Yeah, but there's a lot of shit and I don't remember you saying who you scumread recently and an iso glance suggests that I'm right.

Who do you scumread that's not ofhrz

OK if you've read my recent posts I'm not sure why you'd bother asking me that question. If anyone probably you rn tbh

and it's shit and you can do better and you can also do better than your last one

You can do better than voting town

I don't think town avoids finding scum like you've been doing

I'm voting my strongest scumread ATM and have been putting about as much energy into this game as I can muster d1. I feel like I've been pretty open about how turned off this game I am and frankly who the fuck are you to BoP or criticise my playstyle?

VOTE: jjh927 flips red

Is that an ATE OMGUS combo

[northsidegal]

give me a few hours please, presuming we have that time and someone'll still be around

[northsidegal]

meh, it was just what popped into my head reading it.

can you quote yourself from any other town game saying something like this?

You can do better than voting town

or voting someone and saying "flips red"? (or any other similar display of that strong of confidence)

[northsidegal]

perhaps i'm misinterpreting - jjh did say something similar to me. i feel like you have a decent chance of being scum anyways so just in general your interactions with someone who we essentially know is scum could be considered "theater". like i said, i'm going to take a closer look in a little bit.

[northsidegal]

claiming anything other than jailkeeper allows town to do the "jailkeeper flips two coins" or whatever, and then scum has to gamble on whether or not to actually shoot the cop or vig. I don't see it as suboptimal.

Would cop/vig even cc d1?

I feel like jk flipping coins has multiple fairly bad interactions with X

I think they always should. Vig can't just shoot the claim anyways. Getting rid of 1 scum (not to mention a scum pr) always seems worth the trade.

I can see what you're saying about X, but at the start of the day the next day everyone just hypoclaims "protected" or "didn't protect".

[northsidegal]

As an aside, I feel reinvigorated knowing (basically) that jjh is scum. Yesterday I lost basically all of my motivation for everything after he claimed and it seemed like nobody was ccing, thinking that i'd been voting town since the beginning (not to mention just having a bad day).

[northsidegal]

zzz hammering so soon

[northsidegal]

As a highly likely nk candidate, I don't really think there's much discussion being cut of

I'm satisfied

????????

[northsidegal]

dynamic duo ended by the way math

[northsidegal]

not sure.

eh, i guess there's not all that much left that i feel i have to say. i don't expect town to turn around and lynch one of my strong townreads if i die so i think we'll be fine.

[northsidegal]

i think talking about it defeats the purpose if he

doesn't

flip framer, right?

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

really showing MS who's boss
definitely one of the best town showings i've seen all year

game of the year?

[northsidegal]

thanks for the great game, everyone!