Open 750: Forest Fire (Game Over)

[BuJaber]

This game will be a minor inconvenience.

VOTE: lovebird

Better safe than sorry

[BuJaber]

Persivul is here. He's a disrespectful player.
I checked though it's not against the rules unless he actually insults people.

[BuJaber]

Voting lovebird because

I'm

disrespectful?

VOTE: bujaber

"Better safe than sorry" is the reason for the vote. Pretty self-explanatory. I therefore assumed that milk is asking why I said the top part, not why I voted lovebird.

[BuJaber]

But you also just told everyone that you won the last forest fire as scum.

I'm sorry I didn't explain the entire post. I clearly needed to.

[BuJaber]

But you also just told everyone that you won the last forest fire as scum

As in they don't need to know our history for my comment to make sense

[BuJaber]

Persivul is here. He's a disrespectful player.
I checked though it's not against the rules unless he actually insults people.

policy lynch this before lylo

Why

[BuJaber]

I am 100% for pressure, but there isn't any real pressure here. What question or incident is being responded to here? If anything, we need to pressure slaxx or rb for their weird psuedo serious votes

This feels kinda LAMIST to me.

But also 5 votes on the first real wagon on the game.. that's gotta have scum on it. Like almost every game I play the first wagon that starts to look serious disappears later and someone else becomes the day 1 lynch so it's a safe vote for scum to park on.

There you go.. congratulations anyone who didn't vote for egix or is not milk.. you're town by PoE.

VOTE: Milk

[BuJaber]

That was a reaction test on Egix and the fact a bunch of other people sheeped me and decided to start piling on while making sure to mention the lynch was mine probably means it flips town.

Which part was the reaction test? The vote or the 5/5 thing?

Also what made him pass the test?

[BuJaber]

UNVOTE: slaxx
This has been very productive

yes it has
UNVOTE:

Why does this make me feel it was scum theater?

[BuJaber]

I am 100% for pressure, but there isn't any real pressure here. What question or incident is being responded to here? If anything, we need to pressure slaxx or rb for their weird psuedo serious votes

This feels kinda LAMIST to me.

But also 5 votes on the first real wagon on the game.. that's gotta have scum on it. Like almost every game I play the first wagon that starts to look serious disappears later and someone else becomes the day 1 lynch so it's a safe vote for scum to park on.

There you go.. congratulations anyone who didn't vote for egix or is not milk.. you're town by PoE.

VOTE: Milk

The LAMIST part is him starting by saying "I'm 100% for pressure". Also he made a post criticizing behavior without directly calling out someone. I don't trust people who kind of underhandedly try to point towards someone and make OTHER people call them scummy.

@slaxx - as you can see in my post my scum pool was (egix voters) + milk, therefore voting milk makes perfect sense. I said that by PoE anyone who isn't milk and didn't vote for egix was town, therefore by definition anyone who is milk or anyone who voted for egix is potentially scum.

Since milk is scummy for a reason nobody else shares i voted for the group of 1 rather than voting within a group of 5.

[BuJaber]

That was a reaction test on Egix and the fact a bunch of other people sheeped me and decided to start piling on while making sure to mention the lynch was mine probably means it flips town.

Which part was the reaction test? The vote or the 5/5 thing?

Also what made him pass the test?

[BuJaber]

Milk and Slaxx is scum theater.

I quoted TTTT to show it working.

[BuJaber]

See my wording.

"It was" theater not "it is" theater. I'm talking about something that happened in the past. TTTT agreeing is the present

[BuJaber]

I like how you find this less believable than me thinking one post makes it scum theater.

My post was perfectly clear.
We can take a vote on it and see how many people understood it like you did and how many people understood it like I meant it.

If more people agree with you than they agree with me then I promise I will make my future posts excruciatingly detailed.

[BuJaber]

Milk and Slaxx is scum theater.

I quoted TTTT to show it working.

What gives the impression of scum theater?

How easily it ended with a happy ending of both getting along and mutually townreading each other. That and you both seem kind of overly proud of that.

[BuJaber]

Do I tr slaxx? I invited them sure, but do I really tr them? I dont think they tr me, they just didnt want a lolhammer

I didn’t TR him.

There’s plenty of pressure to go around so I switched.

Good decision apparently.

What even is this game....
Did the meta change and now people are supposed to unvote their scumreads?

You both scumread each other, said your interactions were productive and then unvoted.

But apparently it's wrong to think that means you townread each other now.

It's like everyone got sent into an alternate dimension where only what is literally typed out can be accepted as the truth and nobody can imply anything ever.

I'm not the one playing worse than I normally am milk, everyone else is.

[BuJaber]

1. If it did not end with a townread there's no reason to stop pushing him/engaging him. You're not done sorting then. It's not like you waited and saw that the wagon was going nowhere and that people were voting others so you felt the need to stop wasting time on something the others won't join you in.

2. Yeah I'm sure he felt a lot of pressure there.. he was struggling for life at L-1 for days.. dayyyys.

3. Doesn't matter and you know it. I'm saying it felt like scum theater to me. You guys are not going to clone each others actions.

4. Not sure what difference this makes. End result is you laid off milk.

[BuJaber]

Number 3 clarification:
Slaxx said that he did not say it was productive like you did. But this whole argument is about me saying your interactions feel like scum theater. So I'm saying that if it is indeed scum theater then it's not likely that you two will copy each other exactly right? So it doesn't matter that he didn't do one of the things that you did for me to read it as scum theater.

[BuJaber]

Number 3 clarification:
Slaxx said that he did not say it was productive like you did. But this whole argument is about me saying your interactions feel like scum theater. So I'm saying that if it is indeed scum theater then it's not likely that you two will copy each other exactly right? So it doesn't matter that he didn't do one of the things that you did for me to read it as scum theater.

So you're saying because it was a lynch and looked *tooooo perfect* it was theater? I would say that you should wait, if one of us flips scum at some point, THEN look for scum theater. Otherwise I could say that about slaxx and rb or pers and slaxx, or people will probably say it about you and me

Yeah but I was already voting you for another reason. My comment was blown out of proportion. I said what I felt about the interaction, and you all took it like I was 100% sure. I wanted people to talk about the interaction because it raised red flags to me. But it's not like I immediately acted on that. It's something I see as plausible for the reasons I outlined and it didn't sit right with me gut-wise. It's pretty great having my vote already be on you, because I have reason enpugh to suspect you and then if you flip scum I would also have resons to suspect slaxx. Which would achieve what you're suggesting is the optimal route to resolve this suspicion.

[BuJaber]

Milk and maybe lovebird.. slaxx if milk flips red

I think Persivul is scummy but I want him to be town because it means he didn't catch me last game because of skill or anything that I did wrong but because of his bias against the type of player I am. He just scumreads everything so might as well just flip a coin to see if Persivul is right or wrong about me next time we play.

Actually no towns suck enough on this site. I hope he's scum. But either way I can't sort him because he's wearing "BuJ is scum" limited edition goggles, and like for someone like him he'd want to lynch me regardless of alignment.

[BuJaber]

What if it's just your limited view of what is townie.

Look at my past town games. Look how many times I am called obvtown.

Not that that's always the correct play. Town needs to find scum. That's the bottom line. Sometimes they have to do it while covering for PRs. Sometimes the PRs themselves want to wait until they get something useful.

But basically between finding scum and looking like town I'll always choose the former, even though I consistently achieve the latter anyway.

What you -if you're town- is doing is blaming others for your own shortcomings like the typical compulsive narcissist that you are. It's ironic that you are one of RC's biggest critics on this site because you're almost exactly like him.

I have played this game better than everyone else here but people are too lazy to find scum that they jumped on the first person to get any real pressure on them.

But you know why I don't like you? It's not your personality, and it's not your playstyle. It's just that you are disrespectful. A person who disrespects others fails my first impressions test and gets filtered out as someone who is best avoided. I could go into why I think that is but that's philosophy and not game related.

And yes maybe I could misjudge someone with this method of judging people I interact with, but nobody has time to run a background check or hire a private detective on every person they meet. It's like when employers look at resumes to thin the herd. Sometimes they'll miss good candidates but most of the time it will work.

If we lose this game but I get through to town!you it's worth it.
If this is scum!you I'm hoping town will see how scmy your play has been.

Despite my feelings towards you I didn't let it affect me and I waited for several days and several pages to see if you have a legitimate reason to suspect me but you're still tunneling blindly over the same person you voted in RVS. Maybe I was wrong to ever mention your name. It has destroyed your ability to play well as either alignment.

Saying I have an anti-town playstyle.. that hurts me deeply. If you just knew how much I used to hurt myself and my real life because of how much effort I put into this. I had to re-teach myself how to prioritize things in life. A lesson one learns as a child, this game when I first got hooked made me forget that lesson.

[BuJaber]

I posted my reads previously in the post that was accused of being useless.

I'll post more when I'm enjoying myself again.

[BuJaber]

Persivul I got mad because you said I have an anti-town playstyle. To me that's playing against town wincon. I don't do that intentionally. Never have never will. I take that responsibility seriously. Multiple times in the past I've ignored my own feelings and tried to fix things just to avoid confusing people into mislynching me. When scum I've avoided flaking or replacing out multiple times because a) it's not fair (and not relevant to this but b) because I'm stuck with it anyway might as well practice and try to get better at it.

That said I haven't felt that you're trying to sort me at all, while I've felt that I've been giving reads and trying to sort people, so it was very shocking to be called anti-town or unproductive or whatever from someone who has less scumhunting content. The quoting thing I explained was a misunderstanding. I don't know any other reason for you to scumread me. Is it the milk scum case? What do you disagree with?
Or is it the scum theater comment? I gave my reasons for that.. you and the other 3 or 4 people that disagreed what about my reasons do you not find plausible? How do you imagine scum theater looking? More obvious than this, or more dramatic and long-winded?


As for the my performance this game.. that comment came from milk who has played only one game with me in which I was playing as a hydra. We also don't know milk's alignment. I did not agree with his statement. What I was trying to portray to him is that everyone here is not playing very townie so it's not been that easy to sort people, so it's kind of weird to say I'm playing at a subpar level when relative to this game and playerlist I'm playing well.

The obvtown thing is a fair observation if taken out of context. I said that to show you that even if I were anti-town here (I'm not), it is not something a trend with me, so it can't be my playstyle. If I were playing anti-town it would be limited to specific circumstances or as a result of the game state/environment (like this one being quite bad for a day 1).

Frankly I am scumreading you but I don't trust that read yet because I think it is pretty clear that you were biased against me which in turn made me biased towards you. A biased read can be correct, but it is better play to let it sit for a while and reevaluate it.

Let's move on...

I don't know what rb is doing but I think being divided between me/persivul is a natural response regardless of alignment. Though his earlier interactions kind of felt that he was townreading me so I dunno if he's just trying to look busy. Earlier in the game I was also very suspicious by how quick and adamant he was about townreading lovebird.

Speaking of whom, lovebird has a pretty townie start, but last forest fire we played when she was scum, she kinda lurked / did some active-lurking, while her partner hyperposted. I don't know if lovebird is inclined to repeat successful scumplay in a repeated setup, but if one of the more active posters were to flip scum, I think it'd be wrong not to suspect lovebird if she continues to lurk. I also think it's quite easy to see when lovebird is actually posting game-progressing posts or just noise, personally I feel confident I can catch her as she continues to post.

I feel fairly confident Egix is town.

I believe the best course of action is still to focus on milk and slaxx. I don't buy that it's TvT, and I think it's very possibly SvS.

Milk has also been quite manipulative, now that I see that his comment actually convinced Persivul. He's exaggerating his knowledge of my meta. (1 game that didn't even have regular mechanics). I can only assume that he's doing it to give more credibility to his fake reads.
Because I don't know why town would pretend they know someone better than they actually do.

[BuJaber]

Having played as a firefighter before I think claiming is not a bad idea. But not today, because there will be no deaths anyway.

Here's how it will go.
Today arsonists will prime. Maybe they target FF maybe not.
FF will douse. Maybe they'll get lucky and douse the arsonist' target or not.
Tomorrow FF can claim. If they were doused n1 arsonist are forced to prime prematurely. If they were not doused n1 arsonists are going to douse them, which means all other townies are protected.

That's 2 nights without deaths or
1 night with 1 death (and n3 is safe because they have to douse again).

I don't think we had treestumps last time but I might be wrong. Anyway with treestumps in this game and FF confirmed it would give us considerable advantage when choosong strategic lynches and/or massively increase our odds of lynching scum.

Also bear in mind that arsonist don't have much incentive to lynch people they doused unless they are doing it for wifom. But if they are doing it for a wifom it is still good for town because it sacrifices a doomed townie to save an undoused player from the mislynch.

[BuJaber]

Persivul I got mad because...

I. Don't. Care. Why. You're. Mad.

Long defense posts only make me more suspicious of you.

You're only at L-3.
If you're FF you get out of jail free.
If you're tree and you get lynched, you're still here, and you're conftown.

So why are you so defensive?

Exactly because I'll be treestumped.
Gives me all the freedom to post everything I'm thinking without fear.

[BuJaber]

So tired of this scum theater bullshit.

It’s like people aren’t allowed to resolve conflicts or not tunnel.

Also, I did a similar thing with persuvil who you also scumread.

So, if you believed what you’re saying, you would make that connection and vote me because I’m the common thread between the two. But you seem to be throwing shade at me while actually directly pressuring Milk more because right now he’s the guy under more pressure while I’m being fairly townread.

I'm saying the resolutions felt unnatural. It felt too fast and easy relative to the intensity of the conflict.

[BuJaber]

You seem afraid to me - more concerned with pressure on yourself than with actually pushing scum reads.

It's not about getting lynched. It's about being aftaid of being misunderstood or misjudged.

Being a good player is not enough if people can't tell you're a good player because this game requires a team effort.

Otherwise I could improve personally, but it might not improve my win record, because I can't win alone. Winning is secondary to enjoyment and self-improvement, but it's still a very important objective.

[BuJaber]

I just gave you the winning strategy and gave you reads on almost everyone.

Here's the last 2:

Vedith: too early to sort such a trolly character. NAI behavior so far.
TTTT: I tend to townread sarcastic/jokey tone, but all his votes have been on leading wagons, and too little actual content in his ISO. Good lynch also, but no clear associatives with other players. Would switch to avoid a no lynch but otherwise milk is the better lynch.

[BuJaber]

So apart from rb everyone that voted me I either scumread at least once or said something unpleasant about.

Way to be objective.

[BuJaber]

And for the record I think rb scumreads me every game in day 1.

[BuJaber]

Not my fault you continuously ignore the contributions and pretend my ISO is only non-relevant stuff when it contains a significant amount of relecant stuff.

Maybe read more, skim less.

[BuJaber]

Setup spec in an open setup lol. Maybe the mod posts are visible only to me.
That wasn't setup spec. I gave you my advise on FF based on playing FF before. How is that setup-spec?


Pedit - being treestumped symbolizes a failure of town. If they can't identify me as town, what hope do they have of finding scum? If we don't lynch town today we significantly increase our chances of winning.

Being treestumped does not automatically make me worth listening to. I want to make sure people actually listen if I eventually get treestumped.

[BuJaber]

After the game when you're all more objective just reread the game and then see who actually contributed more.

Getting played like puppets over here. 2 v 6 and the 2 perform mass brainwashing.

[BuJaber]

The North Korean government called, they want to offer the arsonists a job.

[BuJaber]

If you aren't defensive about getting mislynched as town you don't care enough.

I want to be able to sleep at night

[BuJaber]

There that's enough. I've done more than the entire playerbase combined now.

I came back less than 24 hours after getting off-topic with Persivul. I've narrowed the scum pool significantly. I've defended myself adequately. And I've provided the game-winning FF strategy.

Now it's up to each of you to remove the blindfolds.


Interesting. 2 players showing their ability to post nonsense while unfairly accusing someone else of not towning it up enough.

And I'm still the biggest suspect in this playerlist?

So it's not blindness I see.. it's downright prejudice

[BuJaber]

Unfortunately I don't know the lyrics and it did not occur to me to look them up so I could change them to fit this game.

[BuJaber]

You seemed to think I'm sortable later. You don't need me to help you unvote.

[BuJaber]

2 players showing their ability to post nonsense

how dare you

How dare I say the truth. I shudder to think of the punishment that would fit such a terrible crime.

[BuJaber]

Nice confidence.

Take another photo of your dog doing this :O face for the post-flip.

[BuJaber]

Take another photo of your dog doing this :O face for the post-flip.

how dare you
VOTE: bujaber

What are you even doing this game?

Just give me a list of your real life likes abd dislikes so I don't say something you don't like and then get scumread for that opinion.

Not that my comment was even remotely anti-dog.

Actually what exactly is bad about what I said anyway?

[BuJaber]

Nothing about the slaxx - milk 1v1 makes me think it's TvT.
And slaxx' last posts sound like he knows the flip.
And slaxx is still trying to lynch me when the flip should be +town indicative for me.
And slaxx was on the egix wagon, which had to have scum on it.

I only wanted milk first because I scumread him independently wheras I didn't know how to pick from a pool of 4 so early in the game.

VOTE: slaxx

If slaxx is town then ignore everything I said. The scumteam in that case would be persivul-lovebird. Especially if lovebird flips scum. If lovebird is town it mostly incriminates rb who I felt was being kinda pockety to wards her.

[BuJaber]

Just give me a list of your real life likes abd dislikes so I don't say something you don't like and then get scumread for that opinion.

I only have two things I ever take offense to...
dissing Sir Mix a Lot's masterpieces
and
implying dogs can mimic human emoticon expressions
I don't know how you possibly hit both of those in this one game already
like the odds of that are astronomical

I feel like I won some strange lottery

[BuJaber]

Even his case for me focused more on my damn avatar then it did anything substantial from the thread

What?

Tell me this is serious. Go on. Say the words.
Say "I slaxx, seriously believe that BuJaber msde a scum case on me based on my avatar instead of anything game related".

[BuJaber]

Show me one game.

Just one game only where two people got into it, the fight lasted what.. not even 2 pages worth of posts.. and both end up unvoting and moving on to other people, and then they both flipped town.

Your fight was fake as hell. Nobody flips a tunnel to a townread that quickly. Nobody.

[BuJaber]

I am 100% for pressure, but there isn't any real pressure here. What question or incident is being responded to here? If anything, we need to pressure slaxx or rb for their weird psuedo serious votes

This feels kinda LAMIST to me.

But also 5 votes on the first real wagon on the game.. that's gotta have scum on it. Like almost every game I play the first wagon that starts to look serious disappears later and someone else becomes the day 1 lynch so it's a safe vote for scum to park on.

There you go.. congratulations anyone who didn't vote for egix or is not milk.. you're town by PoE.

VOTE: Milk

How did I revise this post?

[BuJaber]

This came before me saying it was distancing. Poof goes your whole case against me.

Your next bs reason??

[BuJaber]

And btw good sir the dog commemt is me saying you're absolutely wrong and you're overly confident. It was not me saying you were scum because you have a dog avatar how did you even read a scum case in that post???

[BuJaber]

Actually no it's you trying to change game events.

I first pushed milk independendtly. First.

Then I mentioned that that could be scum theater. And people blew that out of proportion. But when prompted about it I explained why I felt that way. And then I rebutted your counter argument of why it can't be scum theater. Because like a townie, I actually have answers to questions, instead of having to make up stuff, and twist words, and desperately trying to control a situation by going crazy and being overly dramatic and voting one's self.

If you've never seen a townie do townie things you haven't played enough games.

It's you who doesn't have a case that you're grasping at rediculous things, like saying the only reason I wanted to lynch milk was the scum theater feeling. Like saying that I tried to use your avatar as a reason to scumread you. Like saying no townie things the way I do, when not only am I thinking it myself I'm sure others have before. And I've done it before. And I've successfully called out 2 scum and a 3-person neighborhood before based on analyzing a conversation that occurred in RVS. Guess what? Conversations that feel fake are a great and superbly accurate scumtell. The natural flow of discussion cannot easily be faked. In fact I would personally say it's impossible to fake, it's just we sometimes fail at seeing the unnaturalness of it.

You're accusing me of things you are doing. I think you're trying to convince yourself you're playing like a townie so much you've mixed us up in your head and are scumreading yourself thinking you're scumreading me.

[BuJaber]

You can lynch me Egix but you won't shut me up.
I will not let the arsonists win another game of Forest Fire

[BuJaber]

You can lynch me Egix but you won't shut me up.
I will not let the arsonists win another game of Forest Fire

Well, on the off chance that you are town...

Don't make the same mistake I made in Newb 1898. That is, don't become so fixated on not losing that you end up playing like crud and getting yourself lynched.

I am playing perfectly fine though.
I am forced to defrnd myself because I'm being attscked. What I am fixated on is my conclusion that the wagon on you contained scum and that slaxx/milk was not TvT.

You are choosing to side with the wrong team.

Do you not think that someone on your wagon was scum?
Do you not see that slaxx is misrepresenting me?
Do you not see how he is blaming me for milk even though he's the one that hammered someone he knew was town?

[BuJaber]

Having played as a firefighter before I think claiming is not a bad idea. But not today, because there will be no deaths anyway.

Here's how it will go.
Today arsonists will prime. Maybe they target FF maybe not.
FF will douse. Maybe they'll get lucky and douse the arsonist' target or not.
Tomorrow FF can claim. If they were doused n1 arsonist are forced to prime prematurely. If they were not doused n1 arsonists are going to douse them, which means all other townies are protected.

That's 2 nights without deaths or
1 night with 1 death (and n3 is safe because they have to douse again).

I don't think we had treestumps last time but I might be wrong. Anyway with treestumps in this game and FF confirmed it would give us considerable advantage when choosong strategic lynches and/or massively increase our odds of lynching scum.

Also bear in mind that arsonist don't have much incentive to lynch people they doused unless they are doing it for wifom. But if they are doing it for a wifom it is still good for town because it sacrifices a doomed townie to save an undoused player from the mislynch.

Scum have not been attacking me on this because they don't want to bring attention to it.

Don't let it be buried.

[BuJaber]

Buja is scum

You should be blacklisted from all mafia games for game throwing.

Don't blame me for you playing like a jester. I used to believe in 'Too scummy to be scum' but the more experience I got the more I realized it's a bad reason to townread people. It gives scum power to open wolf and progress their win con. I'm honestly surprised you're not even apologizing.

You lied, misrepped, spewed knowledge of milk's alignment pre-flip, and voted yourself.

You can't see past your prejudice, whatever, we're losing anyway. Who else is scummy to you?

Think about this. Scum are confident enough they don't need the vote advantage that they didn't ignite.
This could mean one or a combination of the following:
-all 3 primed players are alive, for a chance to win tonight if we mislynch a non-primed player
-they are confident they won't be lynched
-they primed slaxx before (doubtful)

[BuJaber]

Why does rb's latest string of posts read townie to you milk?
He's been townreading love too early in the game then started to lessen that read.

He thought slaxx was town but didn't try to stop the lynch in any meaninful way. Just set me up as the fall guy when I was nowhere near hammering both day 1 snd day 2 wagon, and unlike most other voters actually continued to engage the people I'm voting.

[BuJaber]

Persivul might be being set up to be bussed. Seems a wide array of both scummy and townie people have put him up as a lynch possibility.

Scum tend to include scum in their lynchpools in an attempt to hide their association.

[BuJaber]

I think the best thing to look at would be end of day 1 and end of day 2 to see which of the voters give fake reasons for scumreading or their votes are bad / don't fit their ISOs

[BuJaber]

Think about this. Scum are confident enough they don't need the vote advantage that they didn't ignite.
This could mean one or a combination of the following:
-all 3 primed players are alive, for a chance to win tonight if we mislynch a non-primed player
-they are confident they won't be lynched
-they primed slaxx before (doubtful)

Nevermind I thought this was day 4. This no longer applies

[BuJaber]

I hope you're scum

[BuJaber]

Then actually do something instead of not and then apologizing for not doing so. Also don't claim you'll hammer lynchbait. I'm being set-up.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: TTTT

-Just skating by on barely any game-related content in their posts
-Was on both wagons and is encouraging the lynch of a 3rd townie
-Was voting milk d1, then voted me for a while when I got more votes, then returned to milk for the L-1.
-no clear reason why he ever scumread me this game

Other competitors:
Sir Persivul:
-Suspicious reprimand on the hammerer day 1 in twilight. Could have said something earlier.
-posting in other games but not here
-backhanded FOSing on lovebird every so often but no push there

Lovebird:
-seems to pick and choose which discussions to offer an opinion on
-avoided both lynch wagons
-hasn't posted since day 1
-history of scum lurking in forest fire

[BuJaber]

Am I town for you?

I'm not sure but like you could be going after me as arso without getting any pushback from people but you didn't. Seems anti-scum to me.

[BuJaber]

Think about this. Scum are confident enough they don't need the vote advantage that they didn't ignite.
This could mean one or a combination of the following:
-all 3 primed players are alive, for a chance to win tonight if we mislynch a non-primed player
-they are confident they won't be lynched
-they primed slaxx before (doubtful)

Does this make sense? I thought scum are supposed to wait as long as they can to kill in this setup. And, I think it could be that slaxx got primed.

I explained in the post after it. This was when I thought this is day 4. It was based on calculations that scum would have primed 3 different people by now, but it's not relevant now because they only had 2 nights to prime.

I wish they primed slaxx. I highly doubt it. The arsonists are good enough to escape a lynch twice now, I doubt they're bad enough to prime slaxx. Slaxx was an easy lynch after I flipped town, so would have died even if I got lynched day 2.

Why does rb's latest string of posts read townie to you milk?
He's been townreading love too early in the game then started to lessen that read.

He thought slaxx was town but didn't try to stop the lynch in any meaninful way. Just set me up as the fall guy when I was nowhere near hammering both day 1 snd day 2 wagon, and unlike most other voters actually continued to engage the people I'm voting.

How can you say he didn't try to stop the lynch, when rb wasn't really around before hammer yesterday?

How do we know he wasn't around?
It was a quick dayphase, sure, but there was plenty of time to post.

Pedit - so TT is town, but scum, but town?

[BuJaber]

So TTTT / lovebird is a thing now.

Lovebird if you're town you really should be suspicous of rb. How do you not question his townread of you? How would he know.

Though I agree about persivul. He's 2nd scummiest after TT.

[BuJaber]

How do we know he wasn't around?
It was a quick dayphase, sure, but there was plenty of time to post.

Pedit - so TT is town, but scum, but town?

How do you know he was? If you're saying it's scummy that he didn't stop something.

Oh, I meant to say Egix and rb..

I guess I look at twilight posting a bit differently than you.

Most of the time it looks scummy to me. Especially when it's defending the lynchee pre-flip.

[BuJaber]

Maybe this is good. Then slaxx can personally report himself to the admins by his own admission.

But thanks rb if you're town. Definitely proving to me that I can't use a BoP tell on you.

[BuJaber]

Who's scum if I flip town?

You probably should get that discussed now. Tomorrow there will either be 2 dead people or 3 primed people. You can't afford mistakes.

Also it might force scum to prime the competent townies so that should help you with reads

[BuJaber]

Who's scum if I flip town?

You probably should get that discussed now. Tomorrow there will either be 2 dead people or 3 primed people. You can't afford mistakes.

Also it might force scum to prime the competent townies so that should help you with reads

Honestly, probable egix. I've been mainly going off of other reads there. Vedith is still possible, TTTT becomes more likely, and lb and rb would lose their trs by PoE and go back to null

Dude the egix wagon was bs.. if you think egix can be scum even slightly then 100% chance their partner was on the wagon. Anybody scumreading egix should be townreading anyone who didn't vote for him

I think there's a bigger chance that he's town and there's 1 scum on 1 off his wagon

[BuJaber]

This is mostly just based on the fact that I cant see a world where we've been this bad as town. If you're not scum, we have torn each other apart with no direction from scum

That's an emotional view not a rational one.

[BuJaber]

You're also equating being wrong with being bad which is not always true.

I'm not playing badly. I found things scummy and I jumped on them. Scum are hiding. Kills are delayed so we don't get any night clues. There's only 2 scum. Etc. Etc.

In hindsight I probably should have taken some advice from tw regarding your playstyle but I didn't think of that until now.

[BuJaber]

Btw I'm hard claiming fireman as Scum won't CC me today not knowing my targets but I feel tomorrow if not over and town lynched I get CC and lynched.

I can't think of reason why scum would fake-claim this here
given the game-state

Neither do I but if he's not we need a CC here from the real one.

@vedith - are you saying Persivul wouldn't rep out as scum of a game he's winning?

I suppose I could see Egix as scum. I think it's more likely that was a wagon on town. The one thing I am sure of is scum definitely voted for egix in day 1.

[BuJaber]

Who do you want to vote for the most?
Do you have an objection to TTTT wagon?

[BuJaber]

Maybe rb is trying to hide being scummy by pretending to be stupid.

Vedith claimed FF. Either you CC him or stop calling him scum.

And people hace the nerve to blame me for scumreading 'townies'.
We have a gamethrower and a guy not even reading the game and somehow we shouldn't be scumreading them?

[BuJaber]

Do you think Egix has a good chance as Scum here?

Not particularly.

I'm taking your opinion regarding Persivul into account, so let's say he's town.

That still leaves 4T, rb, and lovebird who seem scummier than Egix.

[BuJaber]

anyway going to work, i'll be prod dodging until people start lynching bujaber

also egix if you're town you are by far one of the worst people to be town with. this would be the second game i've seen you play where you take long periods of inactivity and upon return you just have some vague leans and no direction at all

you're practically a scum player regardless of alignment

If rb was truly town he would have some harsh words to say about slaxx. Funny how he doesn't because slaxx handed scum the win on a silver platter and he doesn't want to ailienate him even if he's a stump.

[BuJaber]

It's sad when the best move that scum could do at this point is destroy the stumps

You are so horribly wrong about this game.

Scum love the stumps.

[BuJaber]

Rb yeah let's blame vedith for people not showing up. I highly doubt a FF hasn't seen and had the opportunity to CC yet. You're shading the claimed FF because he's the only one townreading the guy you nedd to lynch to win.

Scum have not primed me but they might have primed vedith. Rb doesn't believe vedith but he's still playing as if I'm the lynch even if vedith gets CC'd. In what world does that make sense.

I should have known when he townread rb in what was essentizlly still rvs. Way too early to townread a lurky player like lovebird.
VOTE: rb

[BuJaber]

Lmao

Yeah sure I'm scum. China has 0 exports. The moon is red. The sun is fake. Earth is flat.

FF claim qith a CC is a guaranteed 50-50 scum flip. I did not CC tgerefore it's not between me and vedith.

FF claim without CC means he's the FF. Therefore he should be townread.

Why ARE you voting me is the actual question.

[BuJaber]

It's been more than 24 hours since the claim and nobody is VLA, so they all had a reasonably good chance of seeing it.

It's generally more likely in a game like this, especially at a time like this when scum are winning that an FF claim will be legit.

It shouldn't be that "he's lying until nobody CC's". It should be "he's FF until someone CC's".

It's the backward logic you're applying to his claim that's suspicious. It's like you don't want him to be FF

[BuJaber]

I'm not ending the day or putting someone at L-1 or trying to stop discussions. All I am doing is approaching his claim like a truthful claim until I have reason to think otherwise. That is the correct approach.

[BuJaber]

On the other hand this is what you're doing.
Shading a slot then shading the slot that claimed FF then shading the first slot for believing the claim then shading the FF claimed slot for not joining you on the first slot.

See how it's nefarious?

[BuJaber]

I see so in your mind all claims are equal and every claim should be treated as a lie by default.

Let's put people in prison before the evidence shows up too why not, we sure as hell can't trust someone that x number of people don't like.

[BuJaber]

I've been tunnelled since day 1 since I said I don't like Persivul's personality despite not letting that affect me.

Look at how the scumcase on me prpgressed throughout the game. It started with no foundation, and then just false narrative upon false narrative stacked up, until you can't even tell who's faking a read on me and who's been completely blinded.

[BuJaber]

Yss the scum theater thing I'm glad you brought that up.

Next time when I play maybe I shouldn't talk about what's going on in my head because starting a discussion is pro-scum apparently.

Look back at when that happened. I gave reasons for feeling that way. You alone responded and nobody else and I responded to your response and that was it. Nobody after that talked about how my reasonong for thinking that is wrong. Everybody was all like look at this guy calling two people scum he must be scum, without anybody actually interested in discussing it and arguing with me. Who does it help when players don't talk and instead pile votes on people and try to quicklynch?

If I was so wrong in talking about that why didn't people point out that I was wrong? Why were they not interested in the content I was posting instead of being solely interested in lynching.

Slaxx please don't talk this way. I think you yourself have realized how badly you've played. You've admitted as much. Just take a breather, understand you've been given a huge 2nd chance by not being banned for game throwing.

[BuJaber]

And to this point with 1 v 6 the 1 still has the ability to maintain respect while the others fall down to the level of insults and abuse.

Got a doctor you want me to see, too rb? What should I do after I f myself? And if I'm not on drugs what does that mean should I get myself checked out?

[BuJaber]

Consider quitting the site. You're not fit to play a game where conflict and disagreement are fundamental elements.

[BuJaber]

I'm sorry you're you.

[BuJaber]

Buja is scum

You should be blacklisted from all mafia games for game throwing.

Don't blame me for you playing like a jester. I used to believe in 'Too scummy to be scum' but the more experience I got the more I realized it's a bad reason to townread people. It gives scum power to open wolf and progress their win con. I'm honestly surprised you're not even apologizing.

You lied, misrepped, spewed knowledge of milk's alignment pre-flip, and voted yourself.

You can't see past your prejudice, whatever, we're losing anyway. Who else is scummy to you?

Think about this. Scum are confident enough they don't need the vote advantage that they didn't ignite.
This could mean one or a combination of the following:
-all 3 primed players are alive, for a chance to win tonight if we mislynch a non-primed player
-they are confident they won't be lynched
-they primed slaxx before (doubtful)

'No reason to vote slaxx' really rb.. why do you even say things like that.

Plus I was never the one ending or even encouraging the days to end quickly. Both lynches people piled on their votes later on and stopped the discussion short while I was actively engaging players including the ones I was voting.

[BuJaber]

all those reasons are so dumb LOL

If you're town pleae read day 2 again. He lied. He misrepped. He self-voted.

In day 1 he even hammered the guy he was townreading and continued to call him a stump in twilight.

I'm not making these up. Apart from a literal scumslip there has never been a more justufied lynch in the history of MS.

[BuJaber]

By that logic.

Scum never selfvote, lie, or misrep amirite?

When town do it it's gamethrowing. When scum do it theu have the excuse of WIFOM.

You're saying I shouldn't call it gamethrowing which is just wrong. Town needed help this game not a sacrifice.

[BuJaber]

No it's not he's wrong. I only said it could be scum theater.

And thinking about your game plan if you're wrong is normal

[BuJaber]

I think you knew he was town so you're seeing him as obvtown it's the only explanation.

[BuJaber]

No problem with what. You called him town after he got lynched. It was too late. You brought it up again just now by blaming me again for lynching slaxx who was gamethrowing. He even said so himself if BuJ is town I gamethrew.

I have the benefit of knowing I'm town already

[BuJaber]

Consider quitting the site. You're not fit to play a game where conflict and disagreement are fundamental elements.

Yyyyeah I think this is going a bit too far now
Just saying

Really? That was incredibly mild-mannered compared to what he said to me.

Now I know the blinders people seem to have around me aren't game-related at all. They're personal.

Even in off-game personal comments to each other you take his side in what should be completely objectively clear to you.

I owe you a great deal for confirming I'm not insane Egix. I knew something was wrong with how people view my posts.

[BuJaber]

@rb in what universe is saying "you're not fit to play this game" taking it too far when it was a response to you telling me to fuck myself and asking me if I'm on drugs?

That was pure evidence that people read usernames before they read content and that biases their opinion.

It was not at all game-related and he took your side with it when it's clear I acted reasonably despite you not doing so.

[BuJaber]

Anybody who think me/percy was theater is not seeing things clearly. Please don't misread RC because of your bias against me, snd please don't misread me because of your bias against RC.

[BuJaber]

That depends on if people will play with blinders on or not.

I promise I will not bring up the fact that now 2 townies have gamethrown when sorting remaining players. Or the fact that the site continues to tolerate or even encourage this behavior.

[BuJaber]

There's only one reason why scum wouldn't ignite and that's that they're sure they can get the mislynch they need.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: TTTT

[BuJaber]

No I'm voting 4T because I'm not sure RC and lovebird are a team.

There are certainly some mild interactions between lovebird and Persivul where they disagree but without any hostility but that wouldn't really explain RC's posting yesterday nor would it explain the quickhammer from lovebird. They could have acted like they were sporting each other longer you know what I mean?

But basically we have to treat this like lylo and play a bit of a voting game.

The one constant is I can see 4T as scum.
I can see him as partners with anybody.
I can definitely see him as partners with RC.

But that doesn't mean RC is definitely guilty either.

Vedith thinking Percy wouldn't replace out is something I'm considering. I don't have any real experience with Persivul beyond our last game. And I was scum when he was town.

[BuJaber]

Egix you are sort of agreeing with me here.

Unless RC is trying to secure this with a masterful WIFOM move, lovebird-RC are not scum together.

If you believe so and you believe lovebird is scum, then 4T would be her partner, no?

I'm just going for the safer lynch while I get more time to decide on RC.

But yeah also I'm not as sure as you are that lovebird is scum. 60, maybe 70% sure but her being scum makes very little sense unless she is scum with RC. It's really quite messy.

Like from town!you POV it should be between me and 4T as partners for lovebird based on what you just said. So now you're worrying me because it's like you're looking for me to convince you to vote 4T so you don't seem overly eager.

Things that make me townread lovebird:
1. Her post in RVS wondering if she will win again. She won as scum last time. I could be wrong but my impression of her personality.. I don't think her ego is big enough to post such a cheeky post off as scum.

2. I'm quite confident that 4T is scum on based on his terribly low level of contribution and horrible votes on town wagons. Therefore if lovebird is scum that's her partner. In our last game she was able to kind of lurk because she had an active partner to cover for her and distract the game. I am not so sure she'd follow the same strategy if her partner is also lurking.

3. Feels kind of too easy after her crazy end of the day quickhammer and posting. I said that there was no such thing as too scummy to be scum about slaxx, and he flipped town. I may have said or at least thought the same about rb and he flipped town. People love painting themselves as scum apparently. I don't want to bet the game on 3rd time's the charm.

[BuJaber]

Could be but I'm not sold on 4T!Town. I've seen him trying to gamesolve. He didn't here

[BuJaber]

I mean really that whole thing in day 1 between TTTT and Persivul never comes from 2 townies surely. They just ventured off into off-topic land. It seemed so fake.

Or are you also townreading 4T's rep-out?

[BuJaber]

Fine let's see how RC posts and then I'll decide.

I want to at least have one anti-town person flip scum just so I don't completely lose faith in the site. But I'm not even sure I'd be happy like as a person if lovebird were scum here because it's like she suicided.

And I don't think there's any benefit to you telling us anything. We can't use the information to narrow down the scum pool.

[BuJaber]

I mean really that whole thing in day 1 between TTTT and Persivul never comes from 2 townies surely. They just ventured off into off-topic land. It seemed so fake.

Or are you also townreading 4T's rep-out?

If it was fake it was fake from both sides? Which I don't think it was.
I town read TTTT yes.
The replace out I'm not sure why and don't get me wrong I am not at all saying I town read RC because of Pers replace.
I think AtE and replace out is always NAI I was pointing out that Pers wouldn't tactically replace which is something different.

Yes wouldn't tactically replace is different, but what you originally said was you don't see him repping out when he's winning this game state as scum or something to that effect. At least that's how I understood it and I asked you to clarify and you didn't tell me that I misunderstood.

If he is scum he didn't do himself any favors repping out. It is the opposite of a tactical rep out.

[BuJaber]

I mean really that whole thing in day 1 between TTTT and Persivul never comes from 2 townies surely. They just ventured off into off-topic land. It seemed so fake.

Or are you also townreading 4T's rep-out?

If it was fake it was fake from both sides? Which I don't think it was.
I town read TTTT yes.
The replace out I'm not sure why and don't get me wrong I am not at all saying I town read RC because of Pers replace.
I think AtE and replace out is always NAI I was pointing out that Pers wouldn't tactically replace which is something different.

No it doesn't have to be fake from both sides. There is a certain natural flow of conversation between two or more uninformed parties. When just one of these is informed that flow is disturbed and it feels off.

[BuJaber]

Talk to me about Lovebird.
Do you think they are Scum or no?

I think their actions have helped scum, I don't think that necessarily comes from scum!lovebird.

Basically I'm really scared and while I have full confidence in my ability to read RC in the long-run, there's not enough time and he joined way too late here for me to do so. And because I can't read RC I'm not confortable joining any wagon with votes on it already.

[BuJaber]

Well let's face it. If we mis lynch today and I'm doused then I'm dead tomorrow and if the game isn't over it means I hit all town right.

It gives the game surely?

Thoughts RC?

Okay then you be the hammerer today and post your targets in twilight.

I don't want to have additional ways for scum to confuse us and if they knew who you doused there's additional WIFOM to sort through.

[BuJaber]

Well if it's NAI then he needs to be in the scum pool.

I gave him an easy target by talking about my personal feelings about him. It legitimized all the tunneling he did. He could do it as town or scum and we wouldn't know the difference.

That is my only regret this game. The rest I won't apologize for. The standards on MS are way too low for game-throwing anti-town townies. If you play scummy you should be lynched. That's how the best players have always explained it. Occam's razor and all that.

[BuJaber]

Yeah okay lovebird is scum. I was letting my paranoia about RC affect me, and at first thinking why would he set up his partner as the fall guy.

I think RC could definitely be her partner though anyway because well.. what do you do when your partner outs herself like that. Damage control.

But at least we'd have a breather to discuss. 4T or Egix is the easier explanation. RC is more convoluted, but then again so is he as a player.

VOTE: lovebird

[BuJaber]

But I town read Pers... Why would he be in null?

Okay stop.
Take it one step at a time.

Persivul replaced out.
The replaceout is NAI for you.

So you would need another reason to townread him. What is it?

[BuJaber]

And you realise all 3 mis lynches have all called you Scum right?
If we went by the policy to lynch playing scummy then we should have lynched you by now?

It's a stupid policy imo and is situation dependent.

Yes but that's their POV and it's subjective. There's room for them to be wrong and they are wrong.

What they did was objectively anti-town, and that's why it's policy lynchable. Sometimes you'll get mislynches this way but eventually you would stop this kind of behavior.

Lovebird ended yesterday too early.
Slaxx and rb self-voted and sped up their lynches.
Slaxx called milk town and a stump pre-flip even though he hammered him.

[BuJaber]

Okay then I'm sorry but you bringing up his replaceout was really confusing.

[BuJaber]

It made it sound like it had some effect on how you're reading him

[BuJaber]

You can't prime yourself right?
So you won't be alive anyway because I thought of another reason why arsos wouldn't ignite and that's dousing you yesterday.

So basically it's on RC to read me correctly or we lose.
And I think I just have to trust your read and trust occam's razor, and say that RC isn't bussing.

Or lovebird is town and we lose anyway.

[BuJaber]

Ohhh I miscalculated, we're only 6 alive.

Okay in that case yeah you're right, they are not confident that you didn't douse their targets.

[BuJaber]

Don't worry I'm leaning Egix. He had some weird posts directed at me that spews me town I think. He wouldn't do that as town. He wanted to make it look like I was lovebird's partner not him.

It's just that you're capable of doing this as either alignment. And Persivul played like a newbie if town. He what.. tunnelled me for saying I don't like him? Who does that. And then he never looked at me objectively again. Even downright ignored my posts. There were some weird interactions between lovebird and him but maybe lovebird was trying to shade him that way.

Too many anti-town in this game. Seriously vedith is freaking mvp here for being a good FF or we wouldn't even have a chance.

I think I was starting to townread TT because of his admission he wanted to be stumped. So that's another anti-town player admitting it. Thanks for using the game like a personal playground.

But what made me suspect him is him not posting anything substantial. The rapping and joking went too far to the point of distracting. He voted me for saying it's nonsense which was a shit reason to vote. And he just flaked. My impression of 4T from another game is he is capable of contributing hard and posting a lot of logical reasoning and it was just lacking.

I think you saying I can't read you for shit is hurtful and ignores the facts. You joining late is just a disadvantage at this point, but you had multiple easy paths to victory I really don't see why you would pick the harder one just for WIFOM.

So yeah it's egix most likely.

[BuJaber]

Man that egix wagon in RVS was weird though

[BuJaber]

Yeah nevermind what kind of townie gets to L-1 in day 1 and then doesn't go on a crusade on the people who quickvoted him. I'm the one who was bringing it up to him. He was worried about making waves.

[BuJaber]

Yeah but I've misread you once out of 4 or 5 times now and that wasn't even a direct misread it was just me thinking one of you and the samurai guy was scum and incorrectly thinking it's you at first. It turned out to be him and I did come around on it and join his wagon.

[BuJaber]

I'm not going to include bus service since you replaced clemency but I'm so amazed they bought your bs there.

[BuJaber]

I thought you were one of few people that understood me because your own playstyle is unorthodox but I guess you've been here too long they corrupted your open mindedness.

[BuJaber]

I don't know if I'll be back today. Possibly in 6 hours

Otherwise might be safer to not vote until sunday

[BuJaber]

I thought you were one of few people that understood me because your own playstyle is unorthodox but I guess you've been here too long they corrupted your open mindedness.

What exactly are you trying to say with this

I don't know maybe I'm upset at people on the site I'm taking it out on you. I don't believe that someone as good as you could have scumread me in bus service. Guess that was disappointing. I didn't know you picked clem to replace specifically thinking he's town. He was obvscum and if it were anybody other than a trolly account they would not have gotten a free path

[BuJaber]

Also why were you so sure TTTT was town give raisins

I think I was starting to townread TT because of his admission he wanted to be stumped. So that's another anti-town player admitting it. Thanks for using the game like a personal playground.

But what made me suspect him is him not posting anything substantial. The rapping and joking went too far to the point of distracting. He voted me for saying it's nonsense which was a shit reason to vote. And he just flaked. My impression of 4T from another game is he is capable of contributing hard and posting a lot of logical reasoning and it was just lacking.
.

[BuJaber]

Not to mention his late votes on milk and slaxx

[BuJaber]

I thought you were the third because I thought you should have realized that creature at the very least was scum and creature Alonso never seemed to want to Lynch you tbh

I didn't focus on creature but I suspected rb a lot. Called it out in rvs even

Alonzo I had as null with a lean scum coz he can obvtown but didn't

[BuJaber]

Do I need to convince you I'm town here or is it my responsibility to hammer the right person with this lylo?

[BuJaber]

Like I can vote here but it's stupid not to wait on egix

[BuJaber]

Well just fwiw I wouldn't ignite vedith. Without him I'd have been lynched already

[BuJaber]

Really? So you're telling me it's not suspicious to you that you get put at L-1 within like .. a few posts?

By going on a crusade I meant finding scum within that wagon. You didn't seem that invested in that. I'm not even sure you were even worried about being lynched. You displayed kung-fu master levels of calm there.

[BuJaber]

Can you be more specific?

[BuJaber]

Yeah vedith said he doused 4T and RC.

Occam's Razorrrrrrrrrrrrr and vediiiiiiiith!

VOTE: Egix

[BuJaber]

Please remove tree stumps from the setup in the future.
4T said he wanted to be stumped and I think it's very likely we get another person wanting to try it too.

It's supposed to buff town but it's doing the opposite.

[BuJaber]

You of all people want this?
You complain about town all the time why would you encourage anti-town behavior

[BuJaber]

Eh that's fair but tree stumping was a later addition to the setup anyway so it's an exception this time I think

[BuJaber]

Anyway I didn't want to lose as town again in this setup, especially not to lovebird twice in a row

So thank you vedith, thank you RC.

Thanks for modding volxen.

@rb / slaxx - I don't think I crossed the line (I proof read my posts for insults lol), but if I did I'm sorry