Open 765: Haunted Village (Over)

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Vorkuta

No one greets me and gets away with it.

[RCEnigma]

I thought you were salty about being the old precious stone on the block but I agree.

[RCEnigma]

My 2 cents
- Not picking a ghost/immortal = no priest
- Not picking bansher = no protective (healer/WH)
- Not picking avenger, and picking a zombie = no vig shot
-
So 6 points = trickster, Angel, enchantress... huhhh and of course simple PoE doesn't work

Problem is we could have 2-4 different roles and the only ones that can really narrow the setup down are non VT already.

[RCEnigma]

I don't like Vorkuta

Well that's rude, he's a pretty nice guy.

[RCEnigma]

I don't like Vorkuta

Is it because of ultimate werewolf?

Problem is we could have 2-4 different roles and the only ones that can really narrow the setup down are non VT already.

I'm actually tempted to go through EVERY SINGLE COMBINATION (3-3, 3-2-1, 2-2-2, 2-2-1-1) to try and PoE this shit.
It's more fun to me that scum hunting tbh

I thought about it but that's a lot of effort for noncomfirmable results.

[RCEnigma]

So 2-6 then.

How sick would 6 tricksters be.

[RCEnigma]

What? Low probability =/= impossible

[RCEnigma]

What? Low probability =/= impossible

*sighs*
That many tricksters would warrant a banshee (banshee strongman > trickster invis)
or they're banking on the non-consecutive-night kill

Yeah not applicable to this game. Just something I thought would be a fun setup.

[RCEnigma]

I think you've been implying scum chose Zombie because it's safe yeah? No Venge, vig, or enchant? Was your hypothetical combination serious?

[RCEnigma]

Half the prs don't really warrant having a roleblocker. Only setup that needs one for sure is Priest + Healer.

[RCEnigma]

I guess, non consecutive isn't as reliable. Plus you can still wifom the setup with roleblocker. Strongman says "hey you guys definitely have a healer".

[RCEnigma]

Inb4 we end up the only two playing.

[RCEnigma]

This could have been a 3 pp affair.

[RCEnigma]

If anything the votes are townie attempts to move out of rvs. Lolhammer isn't a big deal, first vote is Vork himself he can just unvote.

[RCEnigma]

And teamwork makes the dream work.

[RCEnigma]

If it weren't for that pesky ultimate werewolf and those meddling lists.

[RCEnigma]

Lurking isn't alignment indicative for ceejay in any way.

[RCEnigma]

Lockscum?

[RCEnigma]

Vork - you should refer to me as PP (because that's who I am) and the Platinum Phoenix as the false bird.

He says on his quest to ascend and become the true bird deity.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Hoptic

Incoming harassment.

[RCEnigma]

Could someone explain to me what delayed lynchproof does exactly? They activate their lynchproof ability the night before they're lynchproof for the day? How many shots is this?

Otherwise, glad to see the fantastic wagons being accumulated. I'm happy with my seat on the Ben one, seriously hypothesizing a jester does strike me as scum!him dropping a township.

The setup speculation is good. We need to place more faith in our town PRs to not out themselves while we discuss it. On the other hand, we shouldn't condone avoidance of reads while discussing it *cough* Vortuka *sneeze*.

If that wasn't Vortuka, I blame the names in this game being kind of a mesh right now. I need to form separate identities for each of you, could you all start acting distinctively please?

I'll join in myself on this setup discussion, just give me a few weeks to do some comprehensive research on the role combinations and possible reactions from scum.

I don't remember who suggested it, but I've spread out my sentences onto separate lines of this post.

It's really a breath of fresh air actually, and opened my eyes to the art of structuring a post and forming clear consise

paragraphs.

-Hectic

Hectic how long have you played on site and have you played off site? Like on MU or a similar forum?

[RCEnigma]

I believe I have 3 completed games on this site, and 2 other ongoing ones at the moment.

Played a few games on another site that none of you will have heard of, not anything well known like mafia universe.

Looking forward to this incoming harassment. Make sure to throw in some nuclear warheads please.

-Hectic

I was expecting harassment towards me over my vote.

I was asking because the "I'll get ready to solve things in a couple weeks." Was an extreme cop out, like don't expect me to really start playing till halfway into the game.

The Vorkuta shade looks bad as well, it's specifically for the setup spec without reads when I've given like 1 read so far and mainly just engaged in Vorkutas spec talk. So it reads like targeting when you aren't applying your own parameters outside of his slot specifically.

[RCEnigma]

A lot to catch up on and I'm not super thrilled but I'll get to it I'm sure.

[RCEnigma]

Holy non spoilered content gamma.

[RCEnigma]

All good, I'm apprehensive to call out people lying about out of game afflictions. It seems bm and would be bm to lie about it.

Aside from that 175 seems like he was agreeing with Norwegians post, that's how I took it. I also don't know what you're getting at with the typo thing. How is that significant?

[RCEnigma]

Fair, I assumed that was the overall point I just didn't know how the typo tied in.

I'd agree there. It feels similar to the avengers Hydra in Pokemon fusion. Just that one of the Hydra heads advertised they would probably open wolf which is ehhh.

[RCEnigma]

That answers the question I had.
Who are you a hydra of btw? I'm assuming the RC is RadiantC (and the other head is likely being hidden) and that's the only half I'm asking this question for.

Not a hydra, not the cowbell.

[RCEnigma]

Ehhh jester is different enough from the Zombie that I wouldn't link the two and it's a really really weird soft as a zombie.

[RCEnigma]

Like yeah they both want to be lynched but only one serves their wincon.

[RCEnigma]

Fair enough, it doesn't really bother a zombie unless town has kill power outside of the lynch.

[RCEnigma]

^ chennis

At this point it's effectively if it's signed it's me, if it's not signed it's chenn

Does that make this a chenn post?

[RCEnigma]

That answers the question I had.
Who are you a hydra of btw? I'm assuming the RC is RadiantC (and the other head is likely being hidden) and that's the only half I'm asking this question for.

Not a hydra, not the cowbell.

The funny part is there's a player who goes by Enigma

I've played with both lol.

[RCEnigma]

{PP, GE, BS}
{RCE, UiT}
{NosrkEE, fake-PP, Hop}

Say literally anything please tier: {NaCl, Ben, Tris, CJ}

Oh man this readlist is so not confusing at all

How long until you stop ignoring the non posters and they become an issue?

[RCEnigma]

stop fucking posting you fuckers

Or just play. The bleh stop playing from Menalque is weak and ofhrz not engaging me yet is sketchy.

[RCEnigma]

RCE feels really different here from when we've played before and he was town there so I'm SRing him here

I can see vork scum but my TRs seem to be happy with him as town + I'd rather lynch in (hop, UiT) before him, as it's partly the way that they've interacted that I don't love

-M

I mean you've consistently misread me every game we've played together but that's minor.

[RCEnigma]

How long

Prod & Replace so ~2 more days I suppose.

Like if someone makes 1 prodge post and then lurks for another day and a half, I'm down to policy them, but I don't think I/we can beetlejuice them into existence with our votes alone.

What kind of question is this though lawl

Because assuming they don't rep out that's a wide pool of oops deadline lynches on top of your scumreads.

[RCEnigma]

ways to kill a zombie three times:

vig it (either as a sorceress/vig or witch hunter/JOAT)
vengekill it (as an angel/desperate day night vengeful)
spell shield it (as an enchantress/personal rolestopper), though this may just last for one cycle



TL

Interesting actually, does the rolestop just delay the resurrection or actually kill the zombie?

[RCEnigma]

I can't tell if Beta Sapphire/PenguinPower is TvT or SvT, but PenguinPower is definitely the second T in both



TL

Is this a thing? I'm pretty sure Beta called PP town.

[RCEnigma]

I can see why creature enjoys this.

[RCEnigma]

Double edged sword because it could block a vig.

[RCEnigma]

Of all the nonposters to pick.

[RCEnigma]

Again I won't make it a habit of accusing people of hiding behind real life.

[RCEnigma]

Votecount has him as V/la. Ignoring the mod wow. Oversoul I'm so sorry.

[RCEnigma]

IM MIXING MY GAMES AHHHHHHH.


Baezu <3<3

[RCEnigma]

Down to conjure Ceejay VOTE: Ceejay

[RCEnigma]

I mean you didn't shoot me but there was a blatant scumslip and a mason claiming scum so like I guess. Fair, I was scumreading you for hard defending scum too.

[RCEnigma]

I haven't actually played against scum Menalque so I don't really have a baseline but I've played scum with ofrhz and activity may not be indicative but the lack of interaction with me is.

[RCEnigma]

If I weren't voodoo voting that's where I'd be.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Beta Sapphire if I had to guess.

[RCEnigma]

your TR on penguin also feels convenient

All of the TRs on PO feel convenient and there's a TMI spew on whatever slot started it but I'm too lazy to look through it all.

None of this is outside of his scumrange and all of the "I'm townreading him because X is townreading him." Has been running me the wrong way. Outside of meta he's an upper side of null read and I don't really have a read on his meta .

Well I do but it's one sided. So I agree with you there faux PP.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: PP

it's funny because it could refer to either one of you and as a result this vote shouldn't count

Right what else can I come up with.
I have a slight issue with RCE not really taking a "controlling" or active/solvey role in the game as I remember him doing in Jazz, but his behavior is kinda similar to Musicals/NK2058/EICN so I'll let him of the hook for today.

NaCl's wall post reminds me of back when I was a newb and someone bullied me, so I wall-posted out of desperation.
It has a ton of things I disagree with and it felt "reactive", political, and slightly manufactured as if to appease other members here.

Speaking of political and reactive- norskee... has uh... also um... yeah idk what to make of his ISO

chenny is funny because I really remember having to work hard to try and squeeze content out of him in previous games, but this time it's rolling and not stopping so I have no idea what that indicates.
Like

@platinum

- are you picking a fight with the OG-PP because you genuinely hand-over-your-heart view him as scum? Because this has degraded into an 'ego-battle' and is detrimental to solving IMHO

tris should ask fewer questions and give more answers. prolly playstyle and NAI, but I'm not a fan.

What if I told you everything was somewhat normal?

[RCEnigma]

On the plus side those were red pandas and they are the most adorable creatures.

[RCEnigma]

Games that are completed are fine to link.

[RCEnigma]

There have been more Hydra slips than Ceejay posts, so that's a thing.

[RCEnigma]

@mod:

can we get a vote count?

[RCEnigma]

You aren't really giving much reason to townread you and yelling why aren't you townreading me.

To your credit I think more and more Vorkuta may be scum so you've got that going for you. But I kind of want to wait for flips to really read you.

[RCEnigma]

Actually going back and reading through the defense "everyone is scumreading me so I can't be scum" is bullshit when you're voting Ben, whom pretty much everyone is scumreading. I've seen like one post defending him.

[RCEnigma]

Oh. Well things like that ^

[RCEnigma]

shit I meant to

To your credit I think more and more Vorkuta may be scum

Are you throwing down the gauntlet?

I've seen like one post defending him.

*waves*
I've made a few

Maybe it's TMI? Maybe it's Maybelline.

[RCEnigma]

It'll be nothing till it's not.

As an aside I hate those kinds of posts. They always come off as asking permission to push there. Like you don't want to make a read if the majority are going to go against it.

[RCEnigma]

Wild thought, what if both PPs are scum and the feud is a distancing pmoy

Worth immortalizing if PP/Gamma/PP ends up being the scumteam.

[RCEnigma]

Backtracking from the Ben wagon.

[RCEnigma]

Vork you've played enough games to know that scum let's this wagon reach deadline or L-1 whichever comes first. Faux PP claims and someone goes "shit let's get this guy instead." (Probably a lurker) then we come back day 2 with the shocked Pikachu look.

But now I'm kind of curious. VOTE: Platinum

[RCEnigma]

Everyone called the wagon bad but no one really even townreads Ben. That doesn't seem viable. Alternative is it would be a lot of work for a low priority target if he's town.

[RCEnigma]

But if town has no countermeasures it is actually pretty good for scum
Like I feel like ignoring the benefits of it is kinda yikes

This, I think it's decently balanced. Liked there are viable strategies for any of the roles scum could have picked and it all depends on towns power.

[RCEnigma]

What you're doing is convenient what you're doing is rolefishing and what you're doing is easy to avoid accountability over

I don't hard scumread you but none of my preferred wagons are going anywhere. I do however have issue with you trying to intimidate me into an unvote instead of trying to show your perspective.

Everyone is scumreading me isn't a good defense. It's also a weird angle to argue I'm scum if all of your top scumreads are actually town. Break that down for me actually because it seems like you think I'm stranded scum and or paired with new players.

[RCEnigma]

Sooo there are a lot of people I can confidently say wouldn't be scum with Norwegian. This feels really deja vu ish to type down, did I already say this?

[RCEnigma]

I've got a townblock, I'm surprised it is what it is but meh.

[RCEnigma]

You aren't in it at the moment*

[RCEnigma]

I’ve reread some ISOs and feel like my reads have changed a lot. this is basically where I am right now, I think:

Town

PP, Gamma
Unstuck in Time, NaCl
RCE, tris, Hoptic*, plat phoe
——
Vork, SS, Ben, Norwegian

Scum

* caveat here is that I haven’t really had time to reconsider the Hoptic slot, and their placement here is basically because they seemed towny earlier

AMA

-o

Are your issues with the Norwegian slot the same issues Votk had?

[RCEnigma]

My townblock is me, Gamma, Norwegian, Unstuck.

[RCEnigma]

Umm I'll say Gamma is the only one I'm super confident on, think they're spewed no matter what.

And to also answer Norwegian, I don't think Norwegian can be with any of (PP, Gamma, Faux PP, Menalque). Based on the mindset that he thinks he would have strongarmed his partners over scum roles. 100% not a stance a newbie takes with those players in a pt.

[RCEnigma]

O think I'm less wary of new players fumbling through the gamestate than either of A.) A new player not trying or 2.) A new player that is navigating the gamestate well.

If that makes sense.

[RCEnigma]

Like when we rolled scum together it was one of my first games AND my first scum game. I was caught mechanically but I didn't do anything that game except give out readlists when people said they hadn't heard from me in awhile and that's easy enough to do. That's more what I'm looking for in first time scum. At least here. Not after this post because I said though.

[RCEnigma]

O think I'm less wary of new players fumbling through the gamestate than either of A.) A new player not trying or 2.) A new player that is navigating the gamestate well.

If that makes sense.

By fumbling through the game state, you’re talking about him bringing up the “only dumb scum would pick zombies” and trying to towncase himself off of it?

-o

Not really I think that's just not understanding role interactions. I get the playing it up part though. I'm talking more about his propensity to focusing on the wrong things.

It doesn't really feel agenda-ish. So I guess the argument is do you think he's masterminding the scum team or ignoring a scum plan?

[RCEnigma]

What do you think of Vork and how he feels compared to Jazz?

-o

Is that the one I fake vigged him? Because I feel similar to that game to a lesser degree.

[RCEnigma]

That's EICN. Vork was town in Jazz right? I don't think they're directly relatble because of the playerlists.

[RCEnigma]

Chen you were in StarCraft with Verb, FL, and A50 right?

[RCEnigma]

So I guess the argument is do you think he's masterminding the scum team or ignoring a scum plan?

That’s an intriguing thought. I suppose my belief is that i (theoretically) would more meekly follow along with whatever the veteran team members were doing. I doubt i would take full charge in a game of this scale. I would probably not ignore any strategies they proposed either.
Well it’s not like my rambling thoughts can prove much. Move along with the discussion peoples.

Yeah that's kind of my point. I want ofhrz's take though.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think they're directly relatble because of the playerlists.

The player base and mod was damn near identical...

You were Tet in Jazz, and I was a mason outed on D1, so yes the situation is not directly relatable

It isn't. For one you always play differently around FL and Jazz directly followed Musicals where you did it intentionally.

Jazz playerlist had a lot more vocal players trying to fill the town leader position. Plus FB/Elsa who just play disruptor. I think the veterans in this playerlist are a lot more passive early and that gives scum space to work.

[RCEnigma]

Huh...I don't like S_S's read on Ben.

The read itself or the reason behind it?

[RCEnigma]

Instead, I'll ask you a question. Do you think Fake-PP is scum? And apart from that, who are your other scumreads?

Phoenix and Benhalkum both seem kinda sus.
Also i’m thinking Beta Sapphire and Hoptic needs closer examination.
There are also a couple people that seem to have been awarded a "strong townread" from many, even if the substance in their posts makes it seem a bit unwarranted. I’ll leave you to figure out who i’m talking about. I’d prefer it if you were thinking independently rather than having me explain everything. This is assuming you are on the town’s side.

No thanks I like being spoon-fed.

[RCEnigma]

i might be townreading wrong

And scumreading wrong, I think at least 2 of those 3 scumreads are town.

Also what an arbitrary question to ask.

Dayvig: Vorkuta

[RCEnigma]

[RCEnigma]

What you're doing is convenient what you're doing is rolefishing and what you're doing is easy to avoid accountability over

I don't hard scumread you but none of my preferred wagons are going anywhere. I do however have issue with you trying to intimidate me into an unvote instead of trying to show your perspective.

Everyone is scumreading me isn't a good defense. It's also a weird angle to argue I'm scum if all of your top scumreads are actually town. Break that down for me actually because it seems like you think I'm stranded scum and or paired with new players.

My townblock is me, Gamma, Norwegian, Unstuck.

So who are you scumreading now and why? Where's your read on Phoenix at?
Read through your ISO and there's basically no content. You mentioned that's typical so I'm not treating it as scummy until I have a chance to verify that. What I dislike is that you don't seem to be pushing anyone while kind of being on the Phoenix wagon and your only reads are consensus townreads as town.

Ben is probably town.
NaCL feels concerning to me but I'm struggling to put it into words.

-Hop

I'm still against pretty much all the hydras +Vork. Vork is probably the only one that can take off but if he's scum I'm pretty sure I live the night. Killing me off is a blatant scumclaim. The rest I'll have more ammo on tomorrow, if I get invested in the game I guess.

I just want ohfrz to stop sweet talking me because I think half the Hydra is townish and then there's Menalque.

Norwegian didn't have any support behind him until after I gave that read. And the reasoning wasn't even really about him it was the slots around him. So seeing who swung to townreads on him after that will be interesting.

Faux PP hasn't done enough to swing my vote away, I considered it for a bit but I think a red flip on him can bring other PP into my townblock and the game gets pretty easy from there.

[RCEnigma]

RCE, why are you playing off of "what if" scenarios? If your only reasoning for townbinning PP is because of our slot you should really find a different angle

I'm not playing the game around PP and I'm not historically good at reading him. So why wouldn't I use a situation that makes logical sense to me to base a read around. Or I could ignore he's in the game entirely I guess. But I like his memes.

[RCEnigma]

I'm still against pretty much all the hydras +Vork

So there's "staged" cross-fighting against the hydras?
Mighty convenient.

Killing me off is a blatant scumclaim

Is this about #1036? Because you've literally just "k"d to it and nothing more.

I just want ohfrz to stop sweet talking me because I think half the Hydra is townish and then there's Menalque.

such original thought process, much parroting
tbf, Menalque accused you (us) of colluding so there's that to reconcile as well

Why would I need to reconcile anything? Unless you're intentionally setting up my mislynch in case you flip.

What about 1036?

Aaand heres my Hydra rant. Idk I kind of place the blame on hydras that don't communicate and consolidate in their pt how they are approaching reads. It shouldn't be on individual players to discern multiple playstyles they may clash with naturally and multiple conflicting reads within 1 slot. It's not an interest of mine tbh. But hey.

[RCEnigma]

Norwegian didn't have any support behind him until after I gave that read. And the reasoning wasn't even really about him it was the slots around him. So seeing who swung to townreads on him after that will be interesting.

I'm gonna take this back actually, gamma and Hoptic both expressed townreads on Norwegian I just didn't make the Asgard = Norwegian connection.

[RCEnigma]

For one you always play differently around FL

Fake and gay.
I play differently depending on how many good players there are (including papa leaf) in my game, and depending on how over-gamed I am.
Also... I was the mason. There's literally nothing to do as a "confirmed" mason

the town leader position

ooh pick me! pick mee!!!

yeah fair I suppose

Plus FB/Elsa

get your replacements straight

I think the veterans in this playerlist are a lot more passive early and that gives scum space to work.

....
*looks at activity log*
k
oh wow S_S is so passive *smh*

TL;DR, I don't buy this analysis, I don't understand what its trying to convey, and I don't understand how that translates to potential concrete reads/tactics in this game.

-Yes you do, in a noticeable way.

-Elsa replaced FB in jazz

- I don't get what the thing about SS is about. Gamma is hit or miss with activity, PP is like an omniscient presence till late game almost always. Same with SS. I'm just throwing bananas at my keys 80% of the time but I kind of count as veteran. You count as well and I wouldn't call your town game passive but I don't often see you pushing your reads hard or taking control of the town outside of mechanics related play.

[RCEnigma]

The only reason it was brought up was someone asked how you felt compared to jazz. I said they weren't really comparable for those reasons.

[RCEnigma]

Not recently I actually don't mind your recent posting. It was mostly directed at beta and an overall general observation. Like the basis Menalque pushed was inaccurate to start with. Ofhrz' inquisitions I liked but it makes me like, paranoid. She's pretty good at reading me as either alignment and we both know that so there's the possibility she is playing up that angle.

[RCEnigma]

Is my playstyle

really

clashing all that much with Hectic's here? I think we had mostly the same reads (townreads) when we spoke last night- before I updated them with my recent catch up. Can I get some specifics on the disconnect you're saying you see from ALL of the hydras?

Haven't discussed it with him yet, but atm I'm happy to vote NaCL or RC.

VOTE: RCEnigma

-Hop

I also don't know which is which. Whoever it was that made the I'm blind joke early. Still rubbed the wrong way about it though I don't think I've really brought it up again.

[RCEnigma]

Did plat get hammered??

[RCEnigma]

I'm tinfoiling here but I think PlatPhoenix might be town especially with 1234.

I'd rather trust even ben to be town so...

VOTE: Platinum Phoenix

though I really am considering a NorwegianboyEE vote.



TL

I'm tinfoiling here but I think PlatPhoenix might be town especially with 1234.

I'd rather trust even ben to be town so...

VOTE: Platinum Phoenix

though I really am considering a NorwegianboyEE vote.



TL

I don't understand this post. It sounds like you think Plat Phone is town, but then you voted Plat Phoe?

BP

I'm just going to say this out loud to absolutely no hydra in particular: blaming shit on your other head, especially if it doesn't go down the way you want to, should be policy'd

I get this, and you absolutely should hold my slot accountable for that. I'm asking for clarification because it sounds like there was a mistake there.

BP

What is this? UNVOTE: maybe?

[RCEnigma]

also, when scum tries to fake a change, they are really conscious of if it feels too sudden.

townies often do those really sudden 180s and they are usually the ones who do it - because sometimes it really does take just that.

it feels like norwegian is being set up to look bad, and id appreciate whoever's town stop doing that

Well what you said is that I'm scum and I'm pushing my agenda onto Norwegian. You didn't bring up any defensive points and just threw blame elsewhere.

[RCEnigma]

TL what's with your plat vote? Do you think he's town or not?

BP why are you addressing your Hydra partner in thread and not your PT?
What's your case on Norwegian? Either one of you.

[RCEnigma]

@RCE, you never answered my question, but looking back I might have been misinterpreting what you were saying. So if that's the case, never mind. Otherwise please answer.

The implication was I won't feel bad about lynching anywhere outside of my townblock. UiT was in that block until recently and wasn't attributing a scumread to them in my rant. Which was general.

But they're doing the exact thing I was talking about now and the vote is ehhh. I misinterpreted it as a townread + vote on plat at first.

The correspondence in thread is still weird because it's not like a schtick they're running. I have a theory that's angleshooty so I'm not really trying to use that in my read.

[RCEnigma]

ugh, as unacceptable as it is, ben could be lazy town

Who does that make your biggest scumread then?

[RCEnigma]

Is my playstyle

really

clashing all that much with Hectic's here? I think we had mostly the same reads (townreads) when we spoke last night- before I updated them with my recent catch up. Can I get some specifics on the disconnect you're saying you see from ALL of the hydras?

Haven't discussed it with him yet, but atm I'm happy to vote NaCL or RC.

VOTE: RCEnigma

-Hop

Didn't realize this took you off L-2 @plat

The unstuck vote I misread and Ben coming in to do nothing but hammer sketched me out. Would revote considering that's not how it went down.

[RCEnigma]

also - i think, looking back, what happened was that town decided to wagon my slot for its general unreadability

and as soon as that was fixed scum (tris and RCE) have been trying to re-apply pressure

given that this slot is now mostly solo-me and, well, im chennis, this slot should not be hard to read anymore

Initially, I'd agree with this. I mostly got on because you were an awkward slot and there was a meaningful wagon to be had.

I have you the openings to engage with me in a way that showed to me you're town and instead you turned around and shaded me the entire day. You had a decent interaction with Norwegian I kind of liked your reasoning on your read there but in isolation it's not enough to not not win my vote when you're calling me scum for trying to get you to towntell. Instead of going "Cmon guys I'm towntelling."

VOTE: Plat

[RCEnigma]

also - i think, looking back, what happened was that town decided to wagon my slot for its general unreadability

and as soon as that was fixed scum (tris and RCE) have been trying to re-apply pressure

given that this slot is now mostly solo-me and, well, im chennis, this slot should not be hard to read anymore

Initially, I'd agree with this. I mostly got on because you were an awkward slot and there was a meaningful wagon to be had.

I have you the openings to engage with me in a way that showed to me you're town and instead you turned around and shaded me the entire day. You had a decent interaction with Norwegian I kind of liked your reasoning on your read there but in isolation it's not enough to not not win my vote when you're calling me scum for trying to get you to towntell. Instead of going "Cmon guys I'm towntelling."

VOTE: Plat

This is completely a misrepresentation of everything that I've done.

Break it down for me then.

[RCEnigma]

Like if PP Gamma and Vork are all town

I think RCEwould be scum

The first time you called me maybe scum if three other people flip town. Then thorough shading until the last couple of pages. Only recently have you not been vague about calling me scum.

[RCEnigma]

I thought about adding that but it's still vague, which is why I asked you after you flipped your Ben read.

[RCEnigma]

What you're doing is convenient what you're doing is rolefishing and what you're doing is easy to avoid accountability over

I don't hard scumread you but none of my preferred wagons are going anywhere. I do however have issue with you trying to intimidate me into an unvote instead of trying to show your perspective.

Everyone is scumreading me isn't a good defense. It's also a weird angle to argue I'm scum if all of your top scumreads are actually town. Break that down for me actually because it seems like you think I'm stranded scum and or paired with new players.

For example. Like if you explain any part of why I'm scum if x y and z are town. Or what issues you have with my slot it's somewhere to work from right? Then I can see where you're coming from and determine if it's scum trying to push me or town upset I'm on the wagon. But you ignored it completely.

[RCEnigma]

ugh, as unacceptable as it is, ben could be lazy town

Who does that make your biggest scumread then?

[RCEnigma]

Response to 1405 because mobile mutiquoting sucks.

[RCEnigma]

Vork you look like you're hedging right now.

[RCEnigma]

That's my point, and as competing wagons nearing deadline it reads like you want to be on the right side of a flip for towncred.

[RCEnigma]

About RCE, I think RCE is usually quicker to townblock than this when he’s town

Skimming his iso, I don’t see that many stated townreads

He has a decent number of posts, but he’s not really throwing out quick stances on people

Ofhrz's sole point for me as scum. Menalque has none but wants to run me up at deadline so I don't get the chance to rebuttal.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Beta

The wagon we really needed.

[RCEnigma]

Umm I'll say Gamma is the only one I'm super confident on, think they're spewed no matter what.

And to also answer Norwegian, I don't think Norwegian can be with any of (PP, Gamma, Faux PP, Menalque). Based on the mindset that he thinks he would have strongarmed his partners over scum roles. 100% not a stance a newbie takes with those players in a pt.

Huh?
Norwegian is capable of lying in this thread though? Bad read.

IM MIXING MY GAMES AHHHHHHH.


Baezu <3<3

Interesting. If this is genuine, it's likely he's the same alignment in both since it's a lot harder to mix them up otherwise.
No idea what the other game is and I know we shouldn't talk about it if it's ongoing.

Eh, so turns out reading RCEngima is hard. I'll let Hop explain why he scumreads him.

Though, here's some other posts I found were scummy but aren't really sure about:

Vork you've played enough games to know that scum let's this wagon reach deadline or L-1 whichever comes first. Faux PP claims and someone goes "shit let's get this guy instead." (Probably a lurker) then we come back day 2 with the shocked Pikachu look.

But now I'm kind of curious. VOTE: Platinum

Only gives reasons for why voting PP is a bad idea, does it anyway.

also - i think, looking back, what happened was that town decided to wagon my slot for its general unreadability

and as soon as that was fixed scum (tris and RCE) have been trying to re-apply pressure

given that this slot is now mostly solo-me and, well, im chennis, this slot should not be hard to read anymore

Initially, I'd agree with this. I mostly got on because you were an awkward slot and there was a meaningful wagon to be had.

I have you the openings to engage with me in a way that showed to me you're town and instead you turned around and shaded me the entire day. You had a decent interaction with Norwegian I kind of liked your reasoning on your read there but in isolation it's not enough to not not win my vote when you're calling me scum for trying to get you to towntell. Instead of going "Cmon guys I'm towntelling."

VOTE: Plat

The reasoning just feels slightly off.

I'll stop here, don't really know where I'm going with this. My lynch preference is Tris>>RCEnigma>???

Plat's town now.

-Hectic

- Everyone is capable of lying in this thread I don't know what you're getting at.

- We won't talk about it.

- Is exactly what happened but doesn't make Play town or Scum. It's just how day 1 lynches generally go. I threw my vote down for his response and to see where the game went with an actual wagon present.

- Ok?

[RCEnigma]

RCE is intensely scummy but unless we get votes on him asap we’re gonna vote tris to avoid no lynch

Can’t go into all the reasons rn, but the two main things are (1) he’s done

very

little. I don’t think based on my other games with him that it would be unfair to expect town!RCE to have done more. (2) the main thing he’s been doing is trying to actively create a townbloc, which I think is scummy. Scum has a vested interest in creating a townbloc they can insert themselves into. I think town is much happier to let a potential townbloc emerge organically.

Pls make the right choice while I’m sleeping and get votes on RCE. If you’re town then think about how the tris wagon cane up right as RCE was becoming a serious contender for the D1 lynch. Look at tris and see that she is much more likely to be town mislynch bait being used to save a scum than just actual scum herself

This whole thing is bs. What exactly is it you expect me to have accomplished?

And secondly you've even asked me for multiple games to check my meta in pfup. I ALWAYS aim to create a townblock to work from day 1. I'm pretty sure Ive said this in multiple games including pfup.

I wasn't a serious contender just because you said to lynch me. It was only you and Plat and maybe UiT considering lynching me. Stop preflip narrative pushing.

[RCEnigma]

Hoptic too I guess, so half a potential wagon.

[RCEnigma]

I'm kind of half-dead right now, but can we please lynch PenguinPower already? No idea why that wagon never formed honestly.

Like he's been very towny all game... almost

too

towny.
Has anyone else noticed how there haven't been many reasons to suspect him this game?
Well, I have, and this makes me very suspicious that he's a mafia who's just decided to do towny things this game to make everyone think he's town.
But actually he's mafia.

I think he's fooled most people in this game, but I see right through him like a rolecop on a doctor.

Anyone else up for this?

-Hectic

Like the conclusion, road was bumpy but yeah. Pitchforks for PP.

[RCEnigma]

Is this about how the other games went SS?

[RCEnigma]

Betas case on me only has any validity if he's dead. The Crux of his argument was that the Tris wagon started because of me. To keep pressure away from me but it actually sprang up as a counterwagon to Plat.

Don't let that stop scum from pointing a finger to say beta died for a scumread on me.

[RCEnigma]

Also, Plat Phoe's direction toward RC if I flip town makes me a little less suspicious of RC.

BP

Explain this because I might be misreading your meaning again.

[RCEnigma]

Ill dedicate some time to this tomorrow, but I agree with plat here. My last scum game I used the same tactic as insurance or to obfuscate my associations. I'd link it but that will have to wait. Two strikes UiT.

[RCEnigma]

I scumread Vorkuta as well. Town!Vorkuta would put more stuck in my reads instead of shading them all the way he's continued to do.

[RCEnigma]

@RCEnigma Do you think the mafia targeted Beta Sapphire to intentionally lock you in a WIFOM?

Yes, UIT pushing that angle immediately at the day start solidifies that for me. I would expect the rest of the scumteam to push me as scum but try to ignore the wifom angle while 1 pushes it solo.

[RCEnigma]

handy chart

High effort, 10/10, why is my color so close to fakePP

Town!Vorkuta would put more stuck in my reads

Oh you have reads this game?

/s

And no- I'm not shading you.
You're just so completely passive and don't leave a strong and.... commanding impression that I'm used to from town!RCE (brought up 50 times and idk about what S_S has said about it), so your reads just don't.... register for me to shade them.

But fine- I'll play. Kindly point out where I've allegedly slighted you.

Shading my Menalque scumread when I pointed out it was only that half, but I had expressed that view from menals first few posts. The way you framed it made it seem like a groupthink read.

The whole thing about the jazz comparison ofhrz was asking about which I feel was a miscommunication on your part or that you aren't putting my posts into context and skewing them intentionally more similar to EICN.

Like it feels like you have to do something to shake my read, the way you did so in EICN was to just talk louder and hope I didn't have the clout.

This goes hand in hand with the 'RCE town leader' idea you're pushing because EICN was the last game we played together and being vocal day one got me run up nearly to a lynch, I had to claim vig and people still wanted my head. So again you're generalizing and throwing out vague adjectives to push your narrative.

[RCEnigma]

Benhalkum voted for Tris. (Both are town. Benhalkum voted to lynch a townie)
Beta Sapphire voted for RCEnigma. (Only one of the two are confirmed town. Unknown what alignment RCE has)
Trying to analyze who the mafia would target of the two, i'm pretty sure it's unlikely to be Benhalkum, he was scumread by many people and might very well have become a day 2 mislynch. So i think it's more likely the mafia targeted Beta Sapphire to either relieve pressure on RCEnigma or make him seem more suspicious. RCE did claim he thought Beta Sapphire seemed suspicious, (as well as me, so this makes me look more suspicious now) so maybe the mafia is trying to encourage us voting RCE? Though RCE could indeed be scum as well.
I'll have to analyze some more ISO's before i decide my next vote, since I've received a clear message from these results that my day 1 reads sucked.

benhalkum has died! he was a [Vanilla Townie]

wow I forgot the flip.

yeah I'm guessing that was the vig shot as opposed to the mafia NK.

but why would scum nightkill Beta Sapphire of all things?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

idk speculate on this if you want, but a beta kill means RCE is likely scum.



TL

The difference here is the conclusion.where Norwegian is throwing out the possibility of both sides as a baseline TL just kind of drops it on me and waits for reactions.

[RCEnigma]

My issue is the way you backed off the read the moment that Plat challenged it or called you out on it. It comes off as appeasement and there isn't much incentive for town to favor the opinion of an objectively scummy slot over their own. But there is for scum trying to stick with the general consensus.

VOTE: UiT

[RCEnigma]

I'm still against pretty much all the hydras +Vork

So there's "staged" cross-fighting against the hydras?
Mighty convenient.

Killing me off is a blatant scumclaim

Is this about #1036? Because you've literally just "k"d to it and nothing more.

I just want ohfrz to stop sweet talking me because I think half the Hydra is townish and then there's Menalque.

such original thought process, much parroting
tbf, Menalque accused you (us) of colluding so there's that to reconcile as well

Here.

[RCEnigma]

That was great, but I don't get the... "point" of what that entire anecdote/story was all about. As I've TL;DR'd already:

It didn't apply to this game, that was the whole point ...

Ofhrz' asked if I could compare this game to jazz in relation to your slot. I told her they didn't compare and gave all my reasoning for how the circumstances didn't line up so any comparison I made between the two would be biased or unfair. You were literally a mason there.

[RCEnigma]

I disagree.
My dislike of you is driven by the fact that I think your town!game is more assertive, straightforward, and has "effort" in it.
You were decent in Jazz, EICN, and Musicals and had absolutely no problem gathering your "clout" regardless of hard you were pressed.
In this game, it feels like you've completely failed to get any, and that's not due to me at all.
So either you're having a bad day (week?) or something, or this isn't your towngame.

I had to fake a guilty to get you killed in EICN what? And you still nearly got out of that.

[RCEnigma]

Beta nightkill implicates RCE scum. A spicy nightkill indeed, but Beta was trying to pocket RCE.



TL

This pings me a lot too. Beta wasn't trying to pocket me. I said that in jest and it feels weird to hear you echo that here. My paranoia was that ofhrz waffling on me while Menalque scumread me was a ploy since ofhrz and I both know there is a very slim chance she misreads me if she's town. Which I thought she was playing to.

[RCEnigma]

I think I've glazed over most of the time when nacl posts. Run me through your scumread Norwegian.

[RCEnigma]

Medical dog emergency, might be around tomorrow if things go well.

[RCEnigma]

I'm kind of around, Puppy will be ok in the short term. Still monitoring.

[RCEnigma]

I mean - that's what I'm asking. Why was scum on it early for it to fall apart at EOD onto a town wagon?

That is a good point. I kind of felt like it wasn't getting any traction after a while and they could have switched to Tris to get something through (this would probably point to RCE scum).

Do you think scum was on it early? Seems like you disagree with me. To me, it felt like it grew a bit too quickly for it to be natural.

Why would switching to Tris point to me if I wasn't a part of that wagon?

[RCEnigma]

So - I want you to join the fake!PP wagon but you won't say why the slot is town.

Well he's kinda advocating for me as town via UiT scum but I'm aware it could be pocketing but I think trajectory wise it makes sense with him reconsidering on my slot day 1. So it would have to be a long con.

[RCEnigma]

So do you think all three wagons were dictacted by scum? Who checks all three boxes there?

[RCEnigma]

Based on what?

[RCEnigma]

Reaction to plats wagon?

[RCEnigma]

Votecount 1.05

With 13 players, it takes 7 to lynch

benhalkum (1) ~

Unstuck in Time

Platinum Phoenix (5) L-2~

PenguinPower, Hoptic, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1) ~

Beta Sapphire

norwegianboyEE (1) ~

NaCl

Not Voting (5) ~

Something_Smart, tris, benhalkum, Platinum Phoenix, Vorkuta

Mod Notes

...And I’m back!!!!!

The day will end in (expired on 2019-09-14 07:03:00)

Ok Vork who are you proposing is scum in either scenario? Well mostly if you think he wasn't hammered because all scum was on board and they couldn't get town to push it through.

Because on the flip side "cautious scum" would be in the non voters of SS/Nacl/UiT which I haven't seen you push since from your perspective you're town, plat is town, and I've omitted all the flipped town. Even if you strongly strongly townread SS which I think you've said you do that leaves nacl/UiT or a combination of 1 with voters already on board.

If plat is town and scum is at least 1 of UiT/NacL why not hammer, I don't know if either were townreading him and nacl went on to hammer Tris who flipped town.

I think I'm kind of arguing myself away from my uit read here but it doesn't line up if plat is town.

The alternative is Plat scum with nacl and in that case the team is probably Vork/plat/nacl

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Plat L-1

[RCEnigma]

If UiT is scum here he's setting up for a gamma push tomorrow so I don't think you can really convince me of UiT + gamma + another plat voter. PP + Hoptic + UiT/NacL/Vork...I would have to reread, it doesn't sound right out loud and the only interaction that pops out is the Hoptic jab at PP in twilight.

[RCEnigma]

Well we can talk about it tomorrow VOTE: platinum

[RCEnigma]

Not who I wanted the reaction from but cool.

[RCEnigma]

Votecount 1.05

With 13 players, it takes 7 to lynch

benhalkum (1) ~

Unstuck in Time

Platinum Phoenix (5) L-2~

PenguinPower, Hoptic, norwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald, RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1) ~

Beta Sapphire

norwegianboyEE (1) ~

NaCl

Not Voting (5) ~

Something_Smart, tris, benhalkum, Platinum Phoenix, Vorkuta

Mod Notes

...And I’m back!!!!!

The day will end in (expired on 2019-09-14 07:03:00)

Ok Vork who are you proposing is scum in either scenario? Well mostly if you think he wasn't hammered because all scum was on board and they couldn't get town to push it through.

Because on the flip side "cautious scum" would be in the non voters of SS/Nacl/UiT which I haven't seen you push since from your perspective you're town, plat is town, and I've omitted all the flipped town. Even if you strongly strongly townread SS which I think you've said you do that leaves nacl/UiT or a combination of 1 with voters already on board.

If plat is town and scum is at least 1 of UiT/NacL why not hammer, I don't know if either were townreading him and nacl went on to hammer Tris who flipped town.

I think I'm kind of arguing myself away from my uit read here but it doesn't line up if plat is town.

The alternative is Plat scum with nacl and in that case the team is probably Vork/plat/nacl

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Plat L-1

Can you explain this vis-a-vis my slot, because this confused me. You had been scumreading my slot (at least I thought you were), but then this post makes it look like you excluded me from your pool in all cases.

Also, I was about to ask you how you got to that read and dropped the hammer, because I didn't think you were voting Plat at the time, but when I iso'd you I saw the hammer was fake so I left it out there. Who were you trying to get the reaction from?

You aren't excluded from my pools, most of this was arguing Vork's perspective of Vork and Plat both being town. It would make 1 scum between you and nacl but neither hammered plat given the opportunity day 1 and nacl hammered Tris instead.

I think you could be scum with plat playing for distance fwiw.

[RCEnigma]

At first glance I'm with PP, I was thinking it's between one of Gamma/pp, nacl/UiT.

Gamma ended up on both plat wagons and on Tris'. Leaning more towards gamma + UiT + I don't actually know.

[RCEnigma]

I see she was first in. Did gamma start the wagon or was there a mounting wagon and people hopped off?

[RCEnigma]

Sorry I'm not like ... Super motivated to see this out and it seems like I'm not the only one. I'll try and get some thoughts together after work that don't suck.

[RCEnigma]

Is my playstyle

really

clashing all that much with Hectic's here? I think we had mostly the same reads (townreads) when we spoke last night- before I updated them with my recent catch up. Can I get some specifics on the disconnect you're saying you see from ALL of the hydras?

Haven't discussed it with him yet, but atm I'm happy to vote NaCL or RC.

VOTE: RCEnigma

-Hop

I also don't know which is which. Whoever it was that made the I'm blind joke early. Still rubbed the wrong way about it though I don't think I've really brought it up again.

This is when RCE first became lockscum btw.

RC is scum because he didn't think the blind joke was a joke - Hoptic 2019

Nacl is town because he didn't think the blind joke was a joke - same guy.

[RCEnigma]

I was wondering about Unstuck/RCE being unlikely earlier since UIT brings up the Beta killing making RC scum. Unstuck keeps saying he scumreads RCE but RC always ends up being his second or third preference in the end.

Pheonix wagon died for good reasons and we didn't push it at all. UIT revived it d2 instead of going for RC. He didn't go for PP d1 either now that you mention it.

-Hop

UiT backed off pushing me on this basis when Plat and I pushed him on it. Scum!UiT would definitely want town to push the idea instead but still leave me as a mislynch option.

[RCEnigma]

Unstuck/Hoptic/Nacl might be the team.

My only hangup is I wrote off uit + nacl based on day 1. I don't really understand the hesitation to hammer plat but quickhammering Tris instead.

[RCEnigma]

I defended your slot on it in 293 against gamma implying I believed it in the first place. Calling it a joke afterward day 1 made me avoid your slot alltogether so as to not form a read on bad faith.

Do you feel A.) That you were scummy enough to form a better case against you at that point in the game?

Or 2.) That NacL would have cased harder than that as scum?

[RCEnigma]

Huzzah we're back. Should be no votes but I'm not sure what the countdown to deadline is looking like.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I don't really get what you mean.

[RCEnigma]

If Gamma is scum then we can lynch scum without Gamma being here and without bussing.
Neither of them looked like they were treating Gamma as confirmed town.
Vorkuta hadn't mentioned Gamma for over three weeks before then.

I buy this actually.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: unstuck meh

[RCEnigma]

Unstuck and RCE are online, this is useful

I'm here but like. It's discussion about me and not with me. So I'm not super into it.

All of the language has been flip me and then deal with tomorrow. But the game ends on my flip so there is no and then.

[RCEnigma]

I don't see PP/Gamma killing Beta night 1, even with RCE. He townread them a lot and wasn't super townread.

Plus I don't see where you'd fit a Zombie in that team. I never got a zombie sense from RCE since he was lying low instead of getting involved during the day and giving Zombie to PP/Gamma doesn't gel with the way they townread each other so easily early game. I can't really see a space for a zombie in any combination of PP/Gamma/X except maybe Vork, but that's a stretch since the interactions there don't make me feel like it's super likely.

Thinking about it, scum probably don't want to scumread their partners early on/make it ever look like there's scum within (x and y) since they knew there was a vig. I've been overlooking their knowledge of the setup containing a vig. Makes Uit/RCE look even less likely. I should look where PP/Gamma were trying to boost others up with their towncred.

-Hop

Not ignoring the beta kill but I acknowledge yeah it looks pretty bad on me however it's sliced. Nothing I can do about that. I don't feel like I laid low either of day 1 or day 2. I pushed hard on plat day 1. I pushed on beta day 1. I should have gone with my gut on day 2 and pushed harder for UiT over plat but I fell into groupthink/ not wanting to be wrong on both beta and plat.

I was. That and the lull today I've kinda lost interest in the game. A scum flip might motivate me again but I probably wouldn't bet on it tbh.

[RCEnigma]

I don't have a smoking gun, just the interaction between me, him, and plat where he pushed the nk in my direction but backed off as soon as plat pushed him on it being scummy.

I guess zombie kind of makes sense with a UiT team that's worried about him being lynched early. Because at this point it would have to be him, Vork, or nacl on the role. But not UiT/nacl together I think I've mentioned already.

[RCEnigma]

So I don't have Aha! Moment evidence that will flip people off of me.

[RCEnigma]

Thinking about viges, mafia have a reasonably strong incentive not to hammer the PP wagon since that's the obvious vig shot if they leave it. Ideal case for mafia is a failed wagon on town then another wagon on town.

That's assuming scum knew day 1 that plat wasn't the vig.

It also kind of puts a hole in PP's statement that Gamma wouldn't have a reason to start the Tris wagon as scum when you think of the pr hunting angle.

Which was kind of the reason I let gamma slide away.

[RCEnigma]

Games over either way so meh.

[RCEnigma]

If the Lynch is counted it's on town so it's over. If the lynch didn't go through then we no lynched and the game is also over.

[RCEnigma]

We agreed that we didn't want to win this game because town just stopped playing. So the idea was to kill me off and possibly revive to see how it shook the game up.