Open 768: C9++ [GAME OVER]

[Bingle]

Mod didn't correct my dayvig confirmation, so clearly I'm actually a dayvig.

Kill: Nibbui

[Bingle]

I always roll town outside of the newbie thread

Or get lynched D1. I remember BooneyToonz

[Bingle]

Oh, right, DD is scum, and will probably replace to an alt halfway through the game. I will give up on this read right before being the game losing mislynch.

So it is written, so shall it be.

[Bingle]

Pffft. No one uses lie detectors anymore.

[Bingle]

I would like to point out that contentless Bah posts are explicitly against the rules, btw.

[Bingle]

Bah.

[Bingle]

Oh, god, I think everyone in this thread except wicked are baby mafia players.

Hey nibs, you have much experience with anyone? Same @ norwegia and BS.

[Bingle]

don't sleep, how do I poke sleeping people?

[Bingle]

I'm a '13 player. This is a public alt. You're all babies to me.

[Bingle]

Glancing at ISOs I'm a little surprised you call yourself a spamposter. What makes you think you qualify for the title.

[Bingle]

Interesting. It's been a while since I've had to read skitter, but she's /probably/ the best scumhunter in this list I think? Assuming none of the people I don't know are supergeniuses no one told me about.

[Bingle]

Glancing at ISOs I'm a little surprised you call yourself a spamposter. What makes you think you qualify for the title.

I'm usually the top poster if people like tw or RC aren't in the game

and even when they are, if we're gonna count words instead of posts I'm pretty confident I can win often

my posts are longer than theirs usually, but more or less at the same frequency

I got more laidback nowadays though...

...

I think.

LMAO.

Ducky and RC are barely spamposters. you should check out Nancy or chennisden's high activity games.

[Bingle]

Interesting. It's been a while since I've had to read skitter, but she's /probably/ the best scumhunter in this list I think? Assuming none of the people I don't know are supergeniuses no one told me about.

I think she's one of the best scum players but not sure about scumhunter.

kind of corny page 1 questioning but why the first thing in your mind is the best scumhunter instead of the best scumplayer?

are you the kind of person that supports sheeping?

My reads are traditionally for shit.

I'm much better at keeping the gamestate protown.

[Bingle]

You have 4 completed games, all as town. Is this accurate?

[Bingle]

No I just use multiple accounts

Nibbui/Fumuki/Rainn

It's all me.

Ah... We have played together then.

I'm Jingle.

[Bingle]

teacher doesn't play games. He merely mods newbies. It was all an illusion.

[Bingle]

I made this account because Jingle has access to like 30 mod topics for games at a time and I didn't want to wade through them to find games I'm playing in.

Oh, fair warning, there's a decent chance I'll dip hard on activity for a bit in the next month or so. I'll be around-ish, but mostly mobile and my time will be devoted to modding > playing.

[Bingle]

Yeah, me and RC never townread each other, but you were kinda screwed when we both got innod and couldn't paranoia on each other.

[Bingle]

I count as an everyone.

[Bingle]

Also good to see you again Wicked. This game should have a fair bit of nostalgia with you in it.

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

hmmm, maybe we're getting a bit too fluffly

do you have a page 3 read on me already jingle?

Yes.

I'm gonna try that thing where I don't do much til D3 then come back and obvtown and catch the scums and save the day

♪＼(*＾▽＾*)／＼(*＾▽＾*)／

Have a lovely few weeks everyone.

No.

[Bingle]

who is to blame for the mislynches.

I can get behind this. Let's all just blame who.

[Bingle]

Hey, ducky, If you claim SK I promise not to lynch you until you shoot all of the scum.

Otherwise I'm going to lynch you as soon as you stop entertaining me.

[Bingle]

wdym, that game was a ton of fun.

[Bingle]

VOTE: ducky

V Jelly rn

[Bingle]

It's only been a few hours since the game started.

I do appreciate your efforts

Maybe wait for everyone to check in first?

No.

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

I feel like I'm the only one tryharding and it's just sad

Badpost.

[Bingle]

@Ducky

why is my posting AI and how do I feel about the votes on my wagon?

[Bingle]

My feelings were hurt first.

[Bingle]

Found the septuple voter.

Shhhh.... I'm trying to get as many people on the wagon as possible before the mod notices I voted.

[Bingle]

I know that's why you have to answer first :<

You've been avoiding engagement with me. T/F

[Bingle]

actually I'm trying to force engagement w you at the cost of sensibility!

pics?

[Bingle]

add me on snapchat x

Of you trying to engage. I want neither pictures of breadcrumbs or naked ducks.

[Bingle]

No questions for me Bingle jingle Bingle boi?

Nope.

After reading the next page, my answer is upgraded to lolnope.

[Bingle]

these posts are not shitposts

im dipping

No, comeback, there are shit posts! Didn’t you see the bit where I repurposed lyrics from grease? Noooooo

Or was it Greece 2?

[Bingle]

4/5.

We were looking for a reference to “Raisins” to get that elusive 5th star.

[Bingle]

Just a full page of meta reads and petulant arguing.

I don't remember any meta reads. I remember a bunch of shitposting, me trying to get the duck to engage, and me not talking about anything I've actually got. Could you point out these meta reads?

First strong read achieved, btw. I will say it's not on any Scandinavian countries, but cannot comment at this time as to whether the subject is a person of Scandinavian descent.

[Bingle]

What exactly are you saying here?

I'm using as many words as possible to imply the read is on you while actually giving the message that the read is less likely to be on you than anyone else in the hopes that it makes ^ happen.

tbc, I don't have a strong read on NorwegianBoy and am intentionally being obtuse.

[Bingle]

Nah, I am not.

You're failing at your one job, man.

[Bingle]

Also, also why is there 4 votes on Ducky?

Cause it's a good wagon that has both the muscle and the cool. (lowkey, I'm pretty sure I've attracted a flock of sheeps, and I am now the sheep captain.)

[Bingle]

Don't talk about ongoing games.

[Bingle]

I dig this gamestate.

[Bingle]

Yoink

[Bingle]

No, I don't think I will.

I like my duck wagon, atm.

[Bingle]

Hmmmm. Skitter, am I good at reading you? I can't remember and I want to get your opinion before I share my gut feels. tyia.

[Bingle]

i'm townleaning too many people

#s? Don't care about who, just want to know how many is 'too many'.

[Bingle]

uh like 7? i'm not sure i didn't count

7 does seem excessive atm, although I think there are some valid townreads to be had. Vote ducky with me?

[Bingle]

jingle are you done with the reads shenanigans?

you and tw are doing this cute thing about holding giving reads/gut feelings but i think it's already time to put some in the table

at least yours, tw i think is just forcing it rn

But I like to shenanigans.

[Bingle]

no, it's 0 sum fun. If I ensure you have no fun, I get all of it.

[Bingle]

I have never once rolled SK. It's sad, cause I've always wanted to.

[Bingle]

I just realized I have 6 townreads/leans. Maybe 7 isn't excessive? Huh. Food for thought.

[Bingle]

Nah, that's okay.

I'm purty drunk, but not that purty drunk.

[Bingle]

don't out it yet skitter

too early for a real wagon

:thorface:

[Bingle]

Jingle how r u reading me?

with my eyes

[Bingle]

I was gonna read that game to figure out what you were talking about, but then I thought "Fuckit". Anyway, I'm gonna go pass out. Maybe next time I wont start the liquor at 3 PM.

[Bingle]

I’m sorry you rolled scum, ducky.

[Bingle]

I v strongly townread nibui

Hmmm.

[Bingle]

VOTE: wicked
I'm not townreading Bungle and it's scary

Do you expect to townread me this early? If so, why?

[Bingle]

Yes, yes... I read those. My question was more is there a reason you expect more energy feels from me.

[Bingle]

To not answer your question...

I’d be worried if you were townreading me.

VOTE: nibbui

[Bingle]

Bingle is doing this sly thing of being obtuse about me and i feel like he wants me to react to it & i think it's in bad-faith bc he has seen me in panic room and know that i get real flustered to people scum reading me like that (awested or something there did that, one of RAS alts if i remember right), i was more or less in the right track that game and bc of frustation (some rl problems as well), i stopped trying.

Nah. I like your moxy tho.

[Bingle]

solid vote, what makes ya cast it?

A bunch a little things, but the biggest one is:

I’d be worried if you were townreading me.

VOTE: nibbui

[Bingle]

Ok, why dont you?

:thorface:

[Bingle]

Townread:
- Skitter30 (Stance of actively solving the game. Very reasonable logic behind her posts.)
- Nibbui (I was unsure at first, but I've started liking him more and more, town attitude)

Light townread:
- Teacher (Had a crappy RVS wagon piled on him from day 1. Could be scum bussing him, but i think it's more likely he's town based on this fact. I can't find much else to comment on based on reading into his ISO.)
- The Worst (He seems very excited about playing this. If he prefers playing town then i believe he is in this game.)

Neutral/Unsure:
- Emperor Flippynips (Leaning scum, but i've played a game where he was like this. Just posting memes and being very low activity when it comes to producing actual content. Has a scummy towngame IMO.)
- Egix96 (Leaning town, but he hasn't said a lot so i'm putting him as neutral)
- ceejayvinoya (Low activity terrible slot, but i can't just properly read him based on nothing. Neutral for now)
- Bingle (I don't understand anything this dude says. Could be scum intentionally being obfuscating. Or he's town with a very peculiar form of behavior i just can't fathom properly)
- DrDolittle (Almost no content to speak of. Speak up more guy.)

Light scumread:
- Menalque (I want to know whether i just don't like this guy's atttude in general or whether i am correctly scumreading him. His bad excuses to aggressively push townies piss me off.)
- Wickedestjr (I get the vibe that Skitter and Nibbui has been mentioning. Has the time to complain about the gamestate but not actively participating in it.)
- Blatant Scum (Shitty slot. All he's done so far is sheeping a vote with not much behind it and typing 1 sentence posts that don't add much.)

This is the kind of garbage-y reads list that probably comes from town, FWIW.

Also, I'm pretty sure you're wrong on just about everything.

[Bingle]

p-edit: still posting useless stuff

Yup.

[Bingle]

I heavily dislike how instead of drawing bad attention like tw you seem to be projecting the image of someone doing anything remotely useful and thus "above being called out for it".

Tell me more about this, tho. I feel like I'm doing pretty much the exact opposite of pretending to be useful.

[Bingle]

what you would be doing different here as scum?

I think you're experienced enough to know that helping too much as scum is a drawback even if you get town credit, and that rn in early would be harder to fake genuine convos with skitt/tw/me than to later just post "heavy-content based reads".

Absolutely nothing.

Also, there's no such thing as helping too much as scum. The best thing you can do as scum is scumhunt, and faking genuine conversations is easy if you can actually disassociate the knowledge of the scumteam. I am capable of this.

[Bingle]

being remotely/vaguely useful allows you to keep posting without wagons piling on you, while also being very hard to get a look through your head or point out mistakes

Sure, but I don't think I'm trying to look vaguely useful either. I think I'm trying to look obtuse as fuck. And succeeding.

[Bingle]

Jingle's posting feels agenda-y
I'm not sure it's a scum agenda, inherently, but i think he's trying to accomplish ~something~
Idk what the ~something~ is tho

[Bingle]

Ok, why dont you?

:thorface:

I have no idea how to interpret that

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73690

[Bingle]

I think faking logical reads is super easy compared to engaging someone in a convo

What would you call this?

I'm more than happy to engage in conversation. I'm not going to share my thoughts because I don't want to.

[Bingle]

Or, to rephrase: i dont know what you're trying to say by posting that in response to my post

Basically? It means you expecting an answer to that question is in itself questionable.

In context, why do you think I would explain why I think your strong townread on Nibbui is interesting when you yourself haven't explained why you have a strong townread on Nibbui?

[Bingle]

I meant engaging someone as in trading thoughts on the game and not being socially friendly or talking about things in a theoretical level like we're doing...

I'm not avoiding sharing thoughts on the game though. I'm avoiding sharing reads.

[Bingle]

if you're trying to accomplish something you're not being really useless and it's not a reason to go after you

trying to accomplish something =/= being useful to town.

I mean, there is very blatantly something I want to accomplish, given that I'm in a game of mafia and I'm not the kind of player to just do nothing. The point of the game is for other people to decide what I want to accomplish and for me to decide what other people are trying to accomplish, regardless of alignments.

At the moment, I care more about part B than part A.

[Bingle]

I think it's obv enough why she town read me and it seems she isn't alone in that regard

it's more of a oddball for you to scum read me here i think

i don't mind but you've gotta to spill reasons

actually i wouldn't even mind letting it slide as long as you start talking about your read on someone active enough to be relevant + with enough meat on it for us to chew

i don't need you to open your game completely, i need at least enough to read you as more than a treestump casually hanging around here

I get that this is a thing you want, but why do I care that this is a thing you want.

I voted ducky because I wanted ducky to be active and solvey. Ducky started being active and solvey, so I stopped voting him.

[Bingle]

I meant engaging someone as in trading thoughts on the game and not being socially friendly or talking about things in a theoretical level like we're doing...

I'm not avoiding sharing thoughts on the game though. I'm avoiding sharing reads.

we're discussing semantics already then

what else you can think about a mafia game other than reads on the players?

really...?

Game state, whether someone should have the read they have, paranoia, lack of paranoia, PR tells, etc. etc.

For example, I think just about everything NorwegianBoy said in his readslist is either outright wrong or at least bad logic. Do you agree? Disagree? Is there a particular thing you'd like me to expand upon?

[Bingle]

i don't think this old idea of "you need only to scumhunt by yourself" is any good.

I'm NOT scumhunting. I'm manipulating the gamestate. There is a difference.

[Bingle]

And you can just ask if you want more of an explanation, like this would have been more helpful inwtead of just posting thorface

No it wouldn't have.

[Bingle]

I think it's not about him being town or not only

he is just a very good vote rn

I agree.

[Bingle]

i really don't like to be self-righteous and go around saying "hi your reads are bad". I don't think mine are that good anyway.

How do you engage about why you disagree then?

[Bingle]

why do i need to keep talking to you about theoretical level things and help you rise your postcount when you won't talk to me about what i want/find important, according to your logic?

Nah, that was an unsubtle push to you about engaging with NB.

[Bingle]

376 was written in bad faith, and he admitted as such
I dont know why town!him would frame the convo that way

Why does scum!him frame the conversation that way?

[Bingle]

On an unrelated note:

VOTE: skitter

This is an actual read.

[Bingle]

To make an awful push on me in an attempt to get me off his back, apparently

Does scum ducky think lowly enough of town skitter that he thinks that will work?

[Bingle]

On an unrelated note:

VOTE: skitter

This is an actual read.

Now *do* tell

I think you bullshitted your read on nibs, you're wary of me because you don't know what I'm thinking, not because you think I'm scum, you're entirely in your scumrange, and you haven't been particularly towny. Everything about the way you've danced around me is how scum dances around somebody they think is competent when they don't see their trajectory.

Your reaction to me voting your strongest townread wasn't particularly "I think he's wrong/scum" nor "Am I wrong?" but more "Is this actually a viable mislynch?"

You /could/ be scum with ducky, but that's not really important at the moment. Either way the push is gross.

[Bingle]

i don't like how bingle jumped in the tw v skitt only when we all began discussing/turning an eye to it

Eh. I think I made it pretty clear I wasn't interested in lynching tw when his wagon took off and I unvoted.

[Bingle]

Eh. This isn't a defence of tw. This is an attack on skitter. I could get tw off the hook if that was my goal a lot more easily.

[Bingle]

i think it's more likely you're skitt buddy than tw rn although the early interaction between you two just screams that you aren't the same alignment

If I were scum skitter would be my second highest equity partner!

[Bingle]

Voting skitt because she’s “in her scumrange” is a terrible reason to vote her

It wouldn't be, if I was trying to push her to be readable.

It isn't, by itself, the reason I'm voting her here though.

[Bingle]

- scum!him, as far as i'm aware, isn't as capable of sustained nuanced thought as town!him, he's made several posts that hit that threshold of nuance
- he's saying a lot of the thinga that i'm thinking, which is reassuring - it makes me feel like he's approaching the game from the same pov that i am (and i know my pov is town)
- he felt kinda self-righteous in his thing with menalque

The one thing i'm slightly wary of is i think scum!him tries to, and can, pocket me, so i'm watching out for that

Points:

1. Nuanced thoughts: sure. Point at all of the sustained nuanced thoughts from BEFORE the strong townread.

2. He's saying the things you're thinking after you're saying them, from what I can tell. He's pushing me to be readable, when clearly you're not super concerned. He's echoing you in 327, but reverse resonance isn't a towntell. So what, pray tell, is proccing the resonance?

3. This is NAI, and you know that.

4. You're telling me why you're paranoid of your strong townread? Really?

No part of this seems not made up from where I sit.

[Bingle]

you're wary of me because you don't know what I'm thinking, not because you think I'm scum,

true, explain why this is scum indicative

Everything about the way you've danced around me is how scum dances around somebody they think is competent when they don't see their trajectory.

or i think you're competant so i can give you some space beause you're obviously doing ~something~

I'm pretty sure these two things together illustrate my point. You're wary, and instead of trying to figure out what I'm doing (Nibbui) or actively trying to give me the space I need to accomplish what I'm working on by sharing that thought with Nibbui (No one) you back off and let someone else poke the tiger.

Nibbui asked you for assistance with pressuring me. And you said no. If you thought I was scum pulling strings, I would expect town skitter to want to solve that. If you thought I was town pulling strings I would expect town skitter to not be afraid of being in the fallout.

Instead, you backed out of the interaction, because you were unsure if it was threatening to you.

[Bingle]

I do want specific posts, skitter. And I want them from before the townread was outed as strong.

I do think that being waffly on a townread that merits the adjective strong is scum indicative in general. You yourself noted that I don't have recent experience with you, so I'm going by baseline 'talented player'.

[Bingle]

Blatant scum's IDGAF attitude is actually a minor towntell. I wouldn't put much stock given the username, but it's not really a reason to scumread him.

[Bingle]

I do want specific posts, skitter. And I want them from before the townread was outed as strong.

[Bingle]

i think scum!jingle definitely knows that too

Well, yeah. I outright said that scumjingle does exactly the same thing here.

[Bingle]

I'm straight up ignoring every post you quoted except for 108, 134, and 338 as surface level or NAI, skitts. If you take issue with that, please, explain why one or two of those posts are strongly indicative in detail.

I shall ruminate on those three and get back to you on believability.

[Bingle]

have you ever thought of actually being townie

Yes. It wasn't what this game needed.

[Bingle]

i'm not sure why you're framing this as scum!me not wanting to 'poke the tiger' and is instead choosing to back off because i dont' want to be caught in the crossfire when i'd tried to engage you several times before that.

@jingle

Because it's how I see it.

There are two REALLY town motivations to "The fuck is that guy doing?" Poke it with a stick or ignore it. You skirted the edge of the minefield.

Town doesn't worry about whether the plan will blow up on them, because they, as town, know their motivations are town. They /might/ worry about the plan blowing up in general, but you were content to watch your strongest townread poke it with a stick.

[Bingle]

I remember you being, idk, different in a positive way in mini normal 2075 but i wonder if it's because i was scum there and knew you were town from the start

p-edit my poe disagrees with you

Didn't I replace into that? I'm pretty sure I replaced in and RC told me about an obvious scumteam.

[Bingle]

I think it was 2070. D1 we lynched town, N1 both me and RC got inno'd, the rest of the game scum was screwed.

We spent the last day phase arguing over whether to lynch the last scum (Nibs) immediately or play it safe and play around the person who inno'd me being scum.

[Bingle]

i am now paranoid that you're whole obfuscating thing was designed to manufacture a push on someone

Why?

[Bingle]

p-edit my poe disagrees with you

Why?

I'm actually completely happy with the game state as is.

[Bingle]

i am now paranoid that you're whole obfuscating thing was designed to manufacture a push on someone

Why?

i think scum!jingle definitely knows that too

Well, yeah. I outright said that scumjingle does exactly the same thing here.

There being a potential scum motivation isn't pertinent. I want to know why skitter thinks I manufacture a push here to read skitter better.

[Bingle]

I v strongly townread nibui

Or, to rephrase: i dont know what you're trying to say by posting that in response to my post

Basically? It means you expecting an answer to that question is in itself questionable.

In context, why do you think I would explain why I think your strong townread on Nibbui is interesting when you yourself haven't explained why you have a strong townread on Nibbui?

I want to know what you think he's done that's voteworthy
And you can just ask if you want more of an explanation, like this would have been more helpful inwtead of just posting thorface

- scum!him, as far as i'm aware, isn't as capable of sustained nuanced thought as town!him, he's made several posts that hit that threshold of nuance
- he's saying a lot of the thinga that i'm thinking, which is reassuring - it makes me feel like he's approaching the game from the same pov that i am (and i know my pov is town)
- he felt kinda self-righteous in his thing with menalque

The one thing i'm slightly wary of is i think scum!him tries to, and can, pocket me, so i'm watching out for that

Besides for that i think he's townie

What do you think of this, Nibs?

[Bingle]

There being a potential scum motivation isn't pertinent. I want to know why skitter thinks I manufacture a push here, in order to help me read skitter better.

this doesn't accurately reflect what i'm thinking

Slightly misleading grammar. I fixed it though.

[Bingle]

We’re not doing skitt today so find another lynch

No?

I see no better alternatives at the moment, and am happy to continue pushing here until I decide I'm wrong, until I decide there's a more scummy person, or until my vote is needed to help the gamestate.

Feel free to ask me about other people, but imo there isn't anyone scummier than skitter and I'm not going to give up a push because it's hard. That's how town loses games.

[Bingle]

early game was just bad for solid reads here

I disagree. Who are you struggling to read/why?

[Bingle]

but this whole thing reads like you decided you were going to behave ~mysteriously~ and when someone reacted in a way that you found scummy you were going to push them

This is actually a fairly accurate interpretation of my intentions, yes.

[Bingle]

i'm generally just very town read as town.

Would you say skitter is aware of this?

[Bingle]

I lean town on you. There have been good posts although I remember a few things raising my eyebrows.

Voting you was always about reading skitter though.

[Bingle]

and i think this is scummy, yes

Cool. It isn't. But cool.

[Bingle]

So if you think you can make that happen go ahead and push but I don’t think you will and I’ll fight you on it every step of the way

I don't understand why you would make this post or what you expect from me in response, tbh.

Like, obviously if my case is unconvincing fight me on it. If you think skitter is obvtown, share those reasons. If you think skitter is null and don't want to lynch there today, push a better wagon.

This seems fairly obvious.

[Bingle]

probably true but irrelevant at this point in the game in this pl

@jingle
this isn't a fight you're going to win, but you're very welcome to try

This is mafia. Winning the fight is never as important as having the fight.

[Bingle]

VOTE: jingle

[Bingle]

probably true but irrelevant at this point in the game in this pl

@jingle
this isn't a fight you're going to win, but you're very welcome to try

Btw, this is exactly the kind of skitter post that makes my hackles rise this game.

Nominally, skitter is scumreading me because I'm pushing her in bad faith. However, here she is offering me a doorway to back off because "I can't win the fight". Why do this as town?

[Bingle]

if this is s v s and i call it rn how many bragging rights i have in post-game?

asking for a friend

There's a reason it wouldn't be in this game but it's not worth going into.

[Bingle]

because i'm v good at winning 1v1's and there's several people in this pl that i don't think would vote me today as i'm currently being read

:/

That's entirely ignoring the point, and you know it.

[Bingle]

why do that as scum?

It strengthens your position when I flip town. It also strengthens your position against me if I ripcord out and you follow the lead.

[Bingle]

ok, what point am i ignoring?

That there is no town motivation to be had in offering to let a scumread go.

You said the equivalent of "I think you're scum and also you can't lynch me, so why not just let it drop."

[Bingle]

I'm town.
wicked is probably town.
bs is slightly town.
tw, emp, and teach are null.

I actually agree with the rest of skitters reads though.

[Bingle]

Then what is the motivation in the post, skitter?

[Bingle]

because i'm v good at winning 1v1's and there's several people in this pl that i don't think would vote me today as i'm currently being read

FWIW, btw, I recently won a 1v1 against a player who had been innod by two cops. So...

[Bingle]

I agree the odds I get lynched are higher than the odds you get lynched. I'm just counting on the flip making your lynch viable down the line.

I'm pretty damn confident in my read at this point.

[Bingle]

And a lot of heavy meta reads where I only know half the players.

I'm pretty sure there's been like 1 meta read so far, but okay.

[Bingle]

tomorrow will be the day I give this game the effort it deserves.

Please give this game significantly more than the effort it deserves.

[Bingle]

See comments about 840 and 2070 and the such. Way more than 1 and you and skit talking about what you’d expect the other to do. Like tbh I don’t get what you’re trying to do at all yet, but other people I talking about how it compares to what theyd expect from you and I’m like wut?

(@bingle, to be clear)

the comments about 2070 sum up to: Nibs has no idea what he'd expect me to do.

The meta between me and skitter is that I was around for her newbie phase and thought she was good and the last interaction was me modding her more than a year ago AFAICR, so the only real meta there is that there's no meta there.

I don't remember caring about any comments about 840.

Nibs thinks nippleman is town based on meta. the tl;dr of every other meta discussion of not has been "meta isn't applicable."

[Bingle]

circlejerk him, quick.

I need an adult.

[Bingle]

@Nibs:

early game was just bad for solid reads here

I disagree. Who are you struggling to read/why?

Both me and skitter just posted readslists. Wanna work on figuring out why you don't have townreads while we wait for the rest of the party to show up?

[Bingle]

It's not about making you readable to me, it's about perpetuating my reads when I'm dead.

What are you thinking about Mena?

[Bingle]

For the sake of this conversation, can we assume I'm flipped town at this point, btw? It should make this easier.

[Bingle]

Okay, look at his interactions with me/skitter.

First of all can we agree he's likely not S/S with skitter?

[Bingle]

Meta is a very weak tool in my arsenal. Unless I can fully crawl inside of someone's head, it's way more reliable to dissect their posts and try to figure out what the end goal of that post is. It's also the reason I do the obtuse thing as town, because people who are off tilt are much easier to read motivations from.

I also don't particularly care about being wrong, because calling the game isn't as important as winning it.

Aight, regarding emps:

Spoiler:

No questions for me Bingle jingle Bingle boi?

No questions for me Bingle jingle Bingle boi?

kinda badposting

not sure why you expect people to ask you questions instead of reading this convo and asking them yourself

o no, now you’ve caught two scum between me and ducky, however will you know who to push!?!?!?

idk your personality but i think this post is just sarcastic without a real reason to be

wow such astute, great genius, wow

Well that was a waste of two pages. I'll just keep my vote on Menalque for now.

Why don’t you think that any of that was productive? What is it about it that makes it so?

Yo BS I see you’re online come and vote scum with us

I feel like this era of his posting is solving. He has no fear of jumping out and being the center of attention, but he's not really trying to push any real agenda. I especially like that he's not really afraid of pissing you off.

[Bingle]

also i think that this line of argument is designed to get you to think that i'm the s to menalque's t

[Bingle]

@jingle did your heart go "doki-doki" with #677?

add me on snapchat

I don't snapchat, and no. We all know how this day ends.

[Bingle]

I disagree that Mena was WK-ing skit, though.

If anything, he's been very upfront with not being reliable at reading her and still being unwilling to vote there.

[Bingle]

jingle, i might be joking but i'm still paying more or less attention to serious talk if you wanna expand more on what you were trying to say for post days

Yeah, I'm just multitasking, sorry.

[Bingle]

Compare Mena/Skitter to Me/TNHydra in this game. viewtopic.php?f=83&t=80252

He's doing exactly the same thing. He's sticking up for what he thinks will give town the best chance at winning despite not having the reads to back it up.

[Bingle]

Do you have any other concerns on him atm or should we move on?

[Bingle]

I'm straight up ignoring every post you quoted except for 108, 134, and 338 as surface level or NAI, skitts. If you take issue with that, please, explain why one or two of those posts are strongly indicative in detail.

I shall ruminate on those three and get back to you on believability.

Oh, right, I was gonna post my conclusions here.

Spoiler: Why 108/134 are meh examples

it actually did feel tvt to me
but if i'm wrong i think nibbui was more likely to be scum in that exchange

but i didnt read it as tvs actually

Is he normally mildly abrasive?

i didn't read him as midly abrasive actually, you came off more abrasive than he did in that convo imo
i think he's being kinda townie for him
he has a strong scumgame tho

oh wait as i write this i'm remembering that jungle republic

On it's own, I don't think 338 is a compelling post for a strong townread. Especially because it's not a great case in the first place.

[Bingle]

he's still scum

[Bingle]

VOTE: TW

Im on a comp now for anyone who wants to chat while I try to actually make some headway with the game.

Why ducky?

[Bingle]

If you take issue with that, please, explain why one or two of those posts are strongly indicative in detail.

[Bingle]

i was talking about 108/134

Yeah, and I think that Menaread > Nibs read combined with the lack of strong additional evidence but Nibs is the read you choose to emphasize when neither are really at risk is telling.

[Bingle]

Page 22 Menalque is almost always town for him, so Im a bit more confident being by him while I find my feet.

Mena is voting me.

[Bingle]

Hm. You're correct. He thinks I'm the non-pr buddy of scum duck. Coulda sworn he switched his vote.

[Bingle]

Nah legitimately misremembered.

[Bingle]

More to the point, I'm hoping my lynch kills skitter, so I'm kinda okay with dying here.

[Bingle]

On an unrelated note:

VOTE: skitter

This is an actual read.

Now *do* tell

I think you bullshitted your read on nibs, you're wary of me because you don't know what I'm thinking, not because you think I'm scum, you're entirely in your scumrange, and you haven't been particularly towny. Everything about the way you've danced around me is how scum dances around somebody they think is competent when they don't see their trajectory.

Your reaction to me voting your strongest townread wasn't particularly "I think he's wrong/scum" nor "Am I wrong?" but more "Is this actually a viable mislynch?"

You /could/ be scum with ducky, but that's not really important at the moment. Either way the push is gross.

@teach

Basically, it boils down to me not believing she believes a word she says.

[Bingle]

But Im generally of Mena's view. Skit's not going to be a D1 option absent some true weirdness for me. And Im def not there yet. But I appreciate you going back.

Yarp. Like I said, I lose this 1v1, but I think it's important that it happens.

[Bingle]

You're in a unique position to see that, since a big portion of her countercase is that I'm doing this to derail a lynch on you.

Either you're town and you know it's a shit argument or you're scum and you know it's a argument.

[Bingle]

how so?

Town you knows I'm not chainsawing a partner here. At most I'm wk-ing, but intentionally drawing a wagon to derail a townie's lynch is stupid, and that's what the argument says I'm doing.

Scum you knows I'm not on your scumteam.

[Bingle]

I realized i'm running a fever so i'm just going to go to sleep now :/

Feel better, I'll link your towncase from earlier.

[Bingle]

Spoiler:

Glancing at ISOs I'm a little surprised you call yourself a spamposter. What makes you think you qualify for the title.

I'm usually the top poster if people like tw or RC aren't in the game

and even when they are, if we're gonna count words instead of posts I'm pretty confident I can win often

my posts are longer than theirs usually, but more or less at the same frequency

I got more laidback nowadays though...

...

I think.

townie for him

This game is so laidback rn that it's like...

precious.

i'm gonna take a screenshot and post "do you feel old yet?" when we start post-game rants about who is to blame for the mislynches.

townie for him

ok my early read on ceejay plan failed

VOTE: duck

what are you serious about? let me get through your bird head

i like the vote at this time

UNVOTE:

I feel like I'm the only one tryharding and it's just sad

townie for him

Just logged in morning to check real quick

Hey everyone!

irrelephant, TTTT, urap and friends disliked this post

How did Nibbui feel about it?

NAI

A couple of initial reactions:

Nibbui: Damn boi, you talk a lot of garbage.

By garbage you mean my early reads/reaching is bs in your pov or i just post too much noise?

don't count on it Nor, Mr. Bbui is tragically scum aligned.

VOTE: the worst

You had asked me how i feel about your wagon now that I think about it and the answer is Bingle might or not have a reason and the rest are sheeping bc of, idk, wagons?

This is actually a more serious vote though

In most normal-lenght games I think you begin by SR'ing me along with some people and gradually it changes to a TR, but here I think you're just trying to emulate that behavior bc you think I would get sus if you started town leaning me too easy

If this is a joke you're just again being kind of dismissive to me trying to reach/engage you and in a more "bad-faith" way than before

I'm not even as cheeky as I used to in my op posts so I don't think you have any real reason to what you're doing rn. it just feels forced/fake.

No, actually you’ve explained why you think ducky is scum, mostly based on meta with you

I want you to explain why he’s being anti-town in what he’s doing

Hmm, I don't think I can explain why duck is more likely scum than town to me rn without using meta

from a objective pov you can say something like "he is not making a effort to engage or explain what he is thinking" but that's more about being ""protown"" than being actually town or scum.

what is irking me is essentially the fact that i don't see why duck wouldn't act otherwise here.

It's a pretty personal read you could say.

this explanation of his tw townread was ridiculously townie

i think skitter is giving town reads a bit too easy but i don't really remember much of how she usually is in that regard

jingle what's your read on me and tw

at least give me that to work with

i like that he's questioning you and tw here

don't out it yet skitter

too early for a real wagon

anyway, I just felt like Wicked was only coming to thread to ask pointless questions to apparently random people he picks up, not really getting on what is being discussed, while also vaguely talking about the game state. I wanted to see how long he would do it without being called out for bc that would directly impact to my confidence on my read there.

It was like when I called skygazer or montosh too early for what they were doing wrong, and couldn't give a good enough case or get that much confident on what i had

this whole wicked thing was v similar to how i was reading him, but came through a different, but believeable and natural thought process.

this is one of the things that made me feel like he's approaching the thread the same way as me - he came to the same conclusion using a slightly different set of reference points, and thus approached it differently, but it was the same read

this is the one that made me feel like he's approaching the game similarly to me ^

and i think around here i declared him a strong townread iirc

@jingle

pedit good god just wait a few minutes

[Bingle]

I asked that too teach, although not as nicely. This was the response I got.

i was talking about 108/134

also i don't know how to explain it better than 'feels townie for him'

a) not knowing how to articulate things at this moment doesn't negate the read
b) nibbui is a strong townread. the fact that he comes worse off in a spat about incompatible playstyles doesn't change the read
c) what is it telling of, pray tell?

[Bingle]

his initial vote is >rand scum, i don't think his unvote/reeval/revote manoeuvre in itself is actually town indicative (it's either town tryna sort me or scum tryna work out if i'm lynchable) but his suggestion that i was emulating my usual read on him was pretty critical and interesting

also think he's advancing the gamestate in interesting ways

skitter towncase above feels TMI but there's some credit in there

who is he?

[Bingle]

Jingle did you try to slip an unawareness of the potential that this game has to be multiball?

I just realized that you/tw dont need to be aligned but can still both be anti-town

And would explain the current dynamic better than svs

I'm completely aware of the ~50% chance that there's an SK. I think I referenced it.

This is literally the first setup I ever modded, you can assume I'm aware of the nuance.

More to the point, how does the situation you propose where I'm sticking my neck out for tw scum by drawing his wagon to me make any more sense if we're unaligned scum? There's maybe a world where I'm terrible at mafia fypov and was trying to save a PR if we're on a scumteam. If I'm an SK, this is literally suicide from the single role in the setup that wants to fly under the radar the hardest. If I'm group scum, why not just lynch someone who isn't on my team? It's the same question as why would groupscum me stick their neck out for town, but assuming that tw is, fmpov, a vig. And yes, scum sees the sk as a vig, because the SK needs to kill scum to win.

Town skitter isn't this surface level, don't let her see D3.

[Bingle]

SK hunting is terrible.

First of all, the SK tells are literally the same pool of tells as power roles. Second of all, that statement is actually wrong. Third of all, at this point it is >>>EV for SK to be shooting to drop the scum team to 1 player, so their shots should be roughly net positive for town.

[Bingle]

which is why my push is ridiculous and

i should get off your back

comes from scum

[Bingle]

I'm p sure jingle thinks/thought he'd look townier than me in his current push, and it's not turning out quite how he anticipated

Nope. I also don't think you think this.

I'm not an idiot, and you know I'm not an idiot. (Or at least suspect.) I haven't set myself up to look towny at all.

[Bingle]

probably not groupscum

Why?

Fuck, I'd been doing so good too.

[Bingle]

Nibs, regardless of the amount of truth behind duck scum it makes sense to let Egix/BS/whoever that other guy is contribute before EoD.

[Bingle]

That's kinda the only reason i'm not voting there rn

Aren't you supposed to be calling me scum right now?

[Bingle]

There kinda isn't one. I'm just bored by this game rn, and the death note one hasn't started.

[Bingle]

I was hoping you'd get worked up and start screaming at me, tbh. It would've been funny.

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

The lethargy is real. I'mma be pissed if I was right and didn't see this through, though.

[Bingle]

You could vote tw, that would be cool

?

You don't want to vote him because you want things to happen, but you want me to? Why?

[Bingle]

Wicked would you be amneable to voting jingle?

[Bingle]

Competing wagons sounds like fun

You're not wrong. I don't see how wicked voting me helps you solve wicked though.

Hey wicked, wax poetic about teacher to me.

[Bingle]

Bingle, whom I intend to shoot tonight anyway

Still salty, A50? Cause your tears taste great .

Nah, I decided to 1v1 skitter cause I didn't think she was being honest with her reads progression. I haven't decided I'm wrong, really, just that I'm not sure that I'm right and I don't care enough to you know, do anything about it.

Duck is consensus scum b/c it was pulling teeth to get him to engage (which I'm p sure is NAI right now, but :shrug:) and then skitter said something about him fabricating a push on her. He's been lolcatting since then though, so maybe everyone is right.

[Bingle]

Has anyone claimed anything yet?

Nope. I faked a crumb for a role I don't have on accident though and skitter not picking up on it is kind of why I'm reconsidering there.

[Bingle]

SK. At least

I

would leash an SK in this setup. They need to kill 1-2 scum to win.

Godfather is just an instalynch.


Good to see we're both town, btw. You ready to lose and lose hard?

[Bingle]

Also, investigation immune is 100% the wrong choice as SK in this setup. There's definitely bullets flying. There might not be a cop at all.

[Bingle]

Yeah, that's some bad luck there. Sorry monkey, your predecessor was a bad SK.

(Odds everyone thinks we're buddies for the rest of the dayphase until I flip green?)

[Bingle]

I actually told the mod this town lost already when I saw my role PM.

Wut?

Jingle

Town

never wins when I'm on their side.

FTFY

[Bingle]

I actually told the mod this town lost already when I saw my role PM.

Wut?

This is the witty banter part of A50's entrance. Soon will be the moonlogic part of A50's entrance. Then, A50 will probably be tunneled by scum or shot N1.

Don't try to understand it. Just accept it as inevitable.

[Bingle]

Nope. I faked a crumb for a role I don't have on accident though and skitter not picking up on it is kind of why I'm reconsidering there.

Town points to specifically skitter if she points this out, btw.

If anyone else points it out I'll beat them with an A50 stick and they'll turn into an A50.

[Bingle]

Prodge; xxxx is still scum.

[Bingle]

What, he gets a table flip for following the rules explicitly and I don't even get an acknowledgement when I break them? Bullshit.

[Bingle]

I'm

Original Roll String: 1d10

1 10-Sided Dice: (10) = 10

/10 angry about this.

[Bingle]

He's the universal townread, yeah.

[Bingle]

Time to give this game the effort it deserves

Please give it way more than the effort it deserves?

I already made that joke.

[Bingle]

Huh. Reading up now.

[Bingle]

when are you guys going to call out that i'm only shitposting instead of playing mafia rn?

big question

No, don't have them call out people who are only shitposting. Skitter will talk about me more!

[Bingle]

I’m not sure about Bingle - I haven’t gotten to interact with him as much as I would have liked. His style here feels different from my prior experience with him as town. Part of me feels like he’s trying to appear very comfortable with his high activity and self-proclaimed ‘obtuseness’. I’m having trouble understanding the motivation for Bingle-town to play this way. He also felt off to me in his exchange with skitter. See here, here, and here. In particular, I didn’t see strong enough reasoning to warrant the confidence that he expresses throughout his exchange with her. I’m not sure how to read into the eventual unvote.

Bingle can you explain what you meant about ‘manipulating the gamestate’ earlier?
In post 511, Bingle wrote:
Your reaction to me voting your strongest townread wasn't particularly "I think he's wrong/scum" nor "Am I wrong?" but more "Is this actually a viable mislynch?"
Can you walk me through why you felt this way? How are you feeling about skitter in the present time?

1. I don't appear very comfortable, I am very comfortable. See: FotM. Town Jingle, almost 0 reads. Being useless as fuck. Town. Comfortable. See: Fogport. Scum Jingle, murderbonering for A50/pops, Scum, Comfortable. Mini 2070: Town Jingle, solving the game, confirmed. Comfortable.

The last time I wasn't comfortable while playing mafia was Paris mafia, when a conftown refused to listen to a mech solve and lost us the game by being absent and refusing to listen/vote in MYLO.

2. Look at the game I linked to Nibs earlier, if you don't see a motivation for Town Bingle to be purposefully obtuse.

3. Manipulating the gamestate means just that. We were in a position where there was echo chambering on easy and surface-y reads. I wanted to see what would happen when I pushed someone generally accepted as town for no discernible reason because surface level reads beget surface level reads and I wanted more meat.

4. I got the sense skitter was townreading me during our interactions, but she wasn't trying to convince me I was wrong on a Nibs push, even when I didn't show any reasoning for it. Instead, 401 gave me very scummy vibes of not caring about Nib's actual alignment.

5. Eh. I think I might be wrong, but still think that all the townreads there are lazy and not worth the paper they're printed on. I have real paranoia that skitter is going to waltz through this game with no real pressure, and I think if skitter is scum that letting this go before I die is probably the worst choice I can possibly make here.

[Bingle]

*Saying he’s trying a 5-6 out of 10 doesn’t seem to mesh with being excited about the playerlist a few days ago. TW why just a 5-6 out of 10?

This is NAI for *reasons*. Trust me on this one.

Town duck is probably exactly as hard to get into the game as scum duck here.

[Bingle]

I remember A50 talking about me buddying him at some point, and would like to mention for the class that he doesn't think I think I can successfully pocket him right now.

[Bingle]

Oh, no, I outright admit I'm buddying you. I do it as town too, because being able to work together is good.

[Bingle]

bingle why do you think skitter is scum in one paragraph? if that's still a read you have

511

At this point it's more a read I have because if I give up on having it and was right I'll be sad in endgame than a read I have a lot of conviction on.

[Bingle]

Which one?

[Bingle]

Almost and skitter have partner equity, btw, because of this:

his norwegian interaction was pretty fine but his whiteknighting on skitt is icky

skitter is blatantly town, Nibs. The mere fact that Bingle is semi-tunneling her proves it. If you want more, ISO Bingle in this very thread and see where he admits his reads are notoriously bad as town. So, town!Bingle SRing skitter = skitter is town. Scum!Bingle pushing skitter = skitter is town. And that doesn't even include my own read skitter which I had acquired by reading her posts and searching for her "scum tricks" and none were found.

[Bingle]

Egix scum implies skitter town.

I'll sheep that read tho.

VOTE: Egix

[Bingle]

jeez I sure hope they realise the fact I slam dunked scum!Egix instantly is town indicative I really don't feel like being townier

obvious bus

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

That emoji has the dual purpose of taunting ducky and nom. Multipurpose mastina face up in here.

[Bingle]

skitter is scum

If this is true, I demand a whole loaf of bread in the postgame.

[Bingle]

oh fuck i just realized something

Is it what I think it is?

[Bingle]

I want to talk about it tho. Note what it is in your pt and share postgame?

[Bingle]

Egix wagon > wicked wagon, btw.

[Bingle]

This whole interaction is