Open 768: C9++ [GAME OVER]

[teacher]

I signed up because this is basically my dream first three players on a list. I’m going to be less active than normal due to other commitments, but I simply couldn’t pass it up

Also, flippy, have you rolled town yet?

[teacher]

Oh dear. It’s been a loooong time fumuki-san.

[teacher]

I’m in that boat for sure. But only w noobs.

[teacher]

Ack didn’t see this page.

[teacher]

Real question time Skit -- have I ever not felt weird to you?

[teacher]

Hi fam!

I really did basically follow both of you here.
I have to say nibbui v Menalque did not feel tvt.

[teacher]

And well played Menalque!

[teacher]

Hi fam!

I really did basically follow both of you here.
I have to say nibbui v Menalque did not feel tvt.

Why? Which one of us is scum pinging you?

Neither. Both. It just didn’t feel natural.

To put it skitters terms, it reminded me a lot of page appr 11 of mininorm2080 where vork and nom went at it.

Like I know you both can be set off, but I didn’t see the cause for the actual heat. It felt somehow staged. Not sure how get.

[teacher]

I don’t like you

[teacher]

No idea. What does it matter? It was an rvs wagon and we are one day into the game. I didn’t like how bibs and now more people are trying to pretend the wagon has lynch intent.

[teacher]

I don’t like you

<3

seriously tho you don't feel right rn
also i'm now paranoid you're trying to buddy me

Again, that’s not how I approach your slot, really as either alignment tbh.

Could be Bc I just finished a four hour dinner party and am not in top form.

But a bit because nibbui as a player is outside of my read range and his domination of the early game means functionally I don’t think it has started.

[teacher]

Wait have you two played with nibbui before?

I played w that person under the name fumuki in one of my very first games on site - open 729/730??? A white flag modded by NSG

[teacher]

Is he normally mildly abrasive?

Not necessarily, but he can be. Like I said I haven’t rhymed nor reasoned him yet so can’t speak on it.

[teacher]

I don’t like you

<3

seriously tho you don't feel right rn
also i'm now paranoid you're trying to buddy me

Again, that’s not how I approach your slot, really as either alignment tbh.

Could be Bc I just finished a four hour dinner party and am not in top form.

But a bit because nibbui as a player is outside of my read range and his domination of the early game means functionally I don’t think it has started.

ok, how do u approach me as scum then?
have you much experience with nibbui?

Reverse pocket you - start with a Scummish read (based on our game now) while still being friendly. I think the general tone would try to be the same, but I would likely have said something about you (rather than the PL) before you arrived? Idk to be honest, but I would know that buddying would not be the right choice.

[teacher]

Is he normally mildly abrasive?

haha

he thinks i'm abrasive rn

teacher, you're up

bring those pages filled with me capslocking in my first red flag

I had forgotten about that. But yea that’s def true.

[teacher]

It was just that I knew you were online and I didn’t know how else to explain it but was definitely having flashbacks.

If I wanted to manipulate a read of you now, I’d find some way to compare it to the newb game you me and Mena just finished. - because I’m in too many Rn I’m blanking in the number which is why I called it our game.

[teacher]

still waiting for this @teacher

But a bit because nibbui as a player is outside of my read range and his domination of the early game means functionally I don’t think it has started.

what do you mean "his domination of the early game" and the rest of the phrase?

i just can't make head or tails of it

maybe it's just my bad english showing

Thanks, lost it in the shuffle.

I thought a good portion of the first couple pages were shitposting. And that you added to that more than anyone else. So you “dominated” the shitposting and the substance had not really started flowing.

[teacher]

Nope. Norwegian is an excellent wagon.

The buddying me by falsely saying I was an RVS wagon is too weird

I’m away from a computer for a few hours.

On how I was reading skit - she felt a little more different than the past at first; I wasn’t getting her organized walls of reads, but that has resolved.

Consider this post a vote in spirit on Norway but I don’t know the count.

[teacher]

who is the scum?

[teacher]

Menalque lock town, FYI.

Every time I click in here I lose the thread of conversation. Too fast moving for my likes.

[teacher]

And a lot of heavy meta reads where I only know half the players.

[teacher]

I’m on 1% batt but will be reading and isoing tonight.

[teacher]

See comments about 840 and 2070 and the such. Way more than 1 and you and skit talking about what you’d expect the other to do. Like tbh I don’t get what you’re trying to do at all yet, but other people I talking about how it compares to what theyd expect from you and I’m like wut?

(@bingle, to be clear)

[teacher]

VOTE: TW

Im on a comp now for anyone who wants to chat while I try to actually make some headway with the game.

[teacher]

VOTE: TW

Im on a comp now for anyone who wants to chat while I try to actually make some headway with the game.

Why ducky?

he hasnt felt quacktastic and I have a N0 inno on menalque.

[teacher]

heya skit.

[teacher]

heya skit.

hey

can i interest u in voting jingle at all?

Not right now tbh.

I think Im interested, but feel better where Im at for the moment.

Page 22 Menalque is almost always town for him, so Im a bit more confident being by him while I find my feet.

[teacher]

Not according to the VC on the page when I scrolled up?

[teacher]

Not according to the VC on the page when I scrolled up?

Confirmed, 683 had Mena on ducky. Iso also shows 491 on duck. Are you just trying to portray yourself as town by encouraging a vote on you?

[teacher]

Nope. Norwegian is an excellent wagon.

The buddying me by falsely saying I was an RVS wagon is too weird

So you describe the wagon on you that formed very fast during the first pages to be justified? This sounds like a really stupid thing to say as a town.

This troubled me, since in games where I am lost, I tend to find myself by sorting around how people read me. I didnt recall a wagon on me, so I didnt like your bullshit reason to TL me.

Here, you double down that there was a wagon. I just searched the game for "teach*" and ..... Nope, I was right. There was never any wagon. Not even close. Just one vote.

So, again, Im left with a world where you weirdly buddy me.

Care to try again?

[teacher]

Bingle, is there any chance of you providing four sentences (or more?) of why Skitter's scum? I get the sense you are the one-liner w/ emoticons type, but feel free to break it down for me like Im 4 years old. Please and thank you.

[teacher]

Skit, explain the nibs read? Fumuki-san has always troubled me, so Id like some walk through.

[teacher]

On an unrelated note:

VOTE: skitter

This is an actual read.

Now *do* tell

I think you bullshitted your read on nibs, you're wary of me because you don't know what I'm thinking, not because you think I'm scum, you're entirely in your scumrange, and you haven't been particularly towny. Everything about the way you've danced around me is how scum dances around somebody they think is competent when they don't see their trajectory.

Your reaction to me voting your strongest townread wasn't particularly "I think he's wrong/scum" nor "Am I wrong?" but more "Is this actually a viable mislynch?"

You /could/ be scum with ducky, but that's not really important at the moment. Either way the push is gross.

@teach

Basically, it boils down to me not believing she believes a word she says.

Fair nuff. Ill go back through the two of you and play that out with that in mind.

But Im generally of Mena's view. Skit's not going to be a D1 option absent some true weirdness for me. And Im def not there yet. But I appreciate you going back.

[teacher]

and pagetop

[teacher]

good health. We have plenty of time (though I appreciate Bingle pointing out they essentially asked for the same a bit ago as well). Feel better!

[teacher]

ceejay, Egix, Blatant - nothing, and I do mean nothing, you have said has stuck with me to this point. Id love for your thoughts on any one of the following:

A. Nibs's post generally
B. Mena's reason to TL flippy (176)
C. Bingle's case on Skit
D. TW's intereactions with Bingle
E. Norway's attempt to force a read onto me

TY.

[teacher]

@Bingle - thanks. I meant more "why" townie for him. Its comments like that that I was intending by my too much meta-reading comment earlier tonight.

[teacher]

after our very first game together i'm very wary of teacher - he can do a lot of damage as UTR scum.

??
I don’t think you were in normal 2016?
I don’t think I’ve rolled scum against you?

[teacher]

From teacher's pov, I don't see why Norway-scum would intentionally make something up like that that's so easily refutable. It's hard to believe

Why would Town!norway make it up?

There’s no reason as either alignment to make up the wagon. But there is a reason to give a player a fake townread - to look more involved in the game and potentially pocket. My problem is not the made up wagon, it’s the made up read (that was justified by the wagon and then retracted).

[teacher]

(I appreciate you answering them all, but to be clear, I only was really looking for you to pick one -- those were just things that had stuck out to me so thought some intelligent comment would help. But again, do feel free to keep going )

[teacher]

Ay, I did. And even hung out and chatted too.

[teacher]

Ay, I did. And even hung out and chatted too.

[teacher]

Bad faith imo. teacher aint interested why bugles thinks skitter is scum.

No, I very much am. I get my reads from understanding a players mindset. I can think someone is scum, recognize the chance that I’m wrong, and want actual logic to consider even if I’m not likely to buy it in the short term — I have yet to be in a game where I didn’t want to start from just about scratch D3

[teacher]

That’s mostly mena and skit, though I’ve played w tw a couple times. I think I’m off “newb-queue” meta, but remarkably on “non-newb” meta. I don’t know why they’re different, but they definitely are. The lever games (and here I’m including 13era) have a much different feel for me than the 9ers, and I never get the fluff/manga type posts that are more prevalent outside newb.

Pedit: is that.

[teacher]

You can have some Friday (schools out so I can focus). Enjoy the ants.

[teacher]

Time to give this game the effort it deserves

Please give it way more than the effort it deserves?

[teacher]

Time to give this game the effort it deserves

Please give it way more than the effort it deserves?

I already made that joke.

Yes which is why I added the question mark as they were also repeating someone.

[teacher]

For what it’s aorth, I’ll echo xxxxx that I found the good doctors ketchup pretty towny, and doctor on Skitters unvote.

I’m good with townreads on Mena and doctor, and a lean that way on skit.

I’m still not liking duck, and would love to see someone logically rather than gut towncase nibbui.

[teacher]

Time to give this game the effort it deserves

Alright well good night everyone

teol me how you really feel?

[teacher]

I didn’t ignore it - I actually fully credit it and decided to forgive/forget. Your explanations is believable. Less so that you’d double down on it after having the supposed wagon target call out that there is no wagon, and that you maintained it after a vote count had been posted, but I didn’t see any profit in further pursuing it.

[teacher]

I’m basically flirting at the outskirts of the game til Friday. I’ve been following it on mobile and definitely have thoughts, but I don’t have time to do what I normally want to do to really understand a room.

[teacher]

yea, I prefer spam ketchups from people for that reason. Speaking of, Im going to try to read back a bit now.

I actually liked Nib's Egix case.

I also liked Mena's impersonation of me. I dont like that your TL has gone away skit.

It feels weird that the duck wagon stalled, but theres no real momentum; like the entire gamestate hit a weird lull.

Im around for a bit.

[teacher]

^ I was about to quote that because I was pretty sure you were. Im not yet, and somewhat concerned about that since it seems to be a consensus. I liked the Egix case, but could see some other motivations for it as well, and didnt see the early game as town as others did.

[teacher]

Egix is somewhat lhf and could be way to (a) appear to be town/solvy, while (b) getting a lurking slot run up to a potential claim.

That said, Occam's suggests its just a legit case, especially since the logic is sound. I just dont read Nibs that well in general.

[teacher]

Without ISOing, I saw some self-comments to gain towncred (how much effort he was providing vs. board early, calling himself on shitposting). Its not that I had scumread them, just that I hadnt seen why people were townreading them. Like I said, Nibs is not a player I greatly understand, so it will take me a bit on that slot, and I was asking people to explain their reads and didnt get much (other than yours, via Bingle, a bit ago). I'm more null than concerned.

[teacher]

teacher, please talk about this when you get the chance (if you haven't already)

The other thing that feels strange to me is this post. You were asked hypothetically how you would approach skitter if you were scum. It feels a little weird to me that you claim you would have approached her completely differently from how you actually approached her in this game.

Teacher

can you expand on why you would approach skitter the way you described there?

Having played two semi-recent games with Skit (since July), both times I saw her react poorly to open buddying/hero-worship. She is suspicious of that as town, and mimics suspicion of that as scum. If we were scum buddies, I might do it to allow her to distance, but as scum without her I would not try to buddy her. I would work in a reference to her (because we have recent experience, and it would be wierd of me not to), but otherwise put her on my suspect list because if that was ever a potential early lynch, I would want to be able to help it along.

[teacher]

teacher i think you may be scum

You generally think this. You generally are wrong.

I admit I havent gotten launched full speed into this game yet. But I think you just misread my non-newb style. I think Im playing like 2080.

[teacher]

I'm feeling this for RN.
VOTE: FlippyNips

[teacher]

I was debating that or Blatant scum. They're the two slots Im pretty pure null on, and ISOing either of them quickly - Im just ISOing Players in alpha order RN - I thought casting a vote might help get my mind in gear.

[teacher]

I was debating that or Blatant scum. They're the two slots Im pretty pure null on, and ISOing either of them quickly - Im just ISOing Players in alpha order RN - I thought casting a vote might help get my mind in gear.

Egix is above Emp in alpha order and you didn't find anything exciting there?

There's a wagon there already.

[teacher]

Egix, BS o Wicked.

rn I think the chances of there being scum in them is high enough but it's a waste of d1 to lynch that kind of slot if we get it wrong.

If one of them is scum i don't think they would actually win in a lylo either.

i agree with this ^

I dont think this is a good post to agree with at all, but I don't want to elaborate why.

Im on DrD's side of this one. In fact, I encourage lynching this sort of slot on D1.

PEdit: Yea, that.

[teacher]

Confident Town: Mena
TL: DrD, Bingle, Skit, duck
Null: Nibbui, Egix, Emps, Blatant Scum, Wicked
SL: Norway, A50

[teacher]

tear.

No, I just have a confident read there, based on the argument with Nibbui and the conduct around pg 22, as well as the things that made you lose it. He is town.

[teacher]

Im actually inclined to agree with that, much as it sucks RN. FHPOV, the read on me makes total sense.

PEDIT: weird.

[teacher]

There isnt a reason to TR me, Id agree. But I dont think Im the best PoE out there. Right now, I think Im more of a liability than an asset, but I think I get around to being helpful with more time this weekend. I mean, Ill grant you Im not efforting obv-town, but Im engaging when I can and think I have way more positions/sortable content than like half the PL.

[teacher]

no one is asking why i think skitter is town and that makes me sad .

teacher why did you think nips was more scummy than egix

I didnt; I wanted to vote another slot I thought warranted some pressure. I think Nips at least back in the old days started spewing alignment with pressure. I liked Nib's Egix case, it was logical, but my vote wasnt needed. I wanted to get off Duck and I though Nips/Blatant would be a profitable way to go.

[teacher]

Im actually inclined to agree with that, much as it sucks RN. FHPOV, the read on me makes total sense.

PEDIT: weird.

Sorry, what is this referring to?

Agreeing with DrD's read on you. You are getting more town imo too. (Why I didnt ask him).

[teacher]

man i'm sure glad that pt slip blew over, close call

wrong chat

I gave up wine for Yom Kippur. Pls stop.

[teacher]

I didnt even realize this game could have only two groupscum till rn

And I needed you to post this to realize it. Going to look over previous variants just so I can see what the dice rolls mean in context.

[teacher]

only 2 scum if 5+ VTs

[teacher]

(No, I suppose it is if 5+VTs are rolled; additional VTs are added after rolling -- havent modded this setup).

[teacher]

Also kinda feel like you took the townreads and ran

See I think he took the townreads and changed tone/effort significantly to slip back a bit. This is actually what confirmed my earlier leanings.

[teacher]

bet ya anything teacher will say he's voting nips because nips is the most utr slot but it's a v surface reason to try and pressure someone, don't really get the feeling nips will react

Your pressure ploy failed, mostly because I already stated my reasons. (nullish disengaged slot without a wagon that I think can spew a bit when pressured). Im mobile so not linking back, but said this like twice when talking with Dr.D while you were on.

[teacher]

Nibs, where are you located?

[teacher]

Nibs, where are you located?

in my house?

i don't really get what you mean with that question though

i have several theories but not a definite one

I’ve been assuming from past conversations you are of Asian heritage. If you are in an Asian time zone it’s an unusual time to go to sleep. I’m trying to understand posting patterns.

[teacher]

<3 skit.

[teacher]

Speaking of time zones and posting patterns, the worst are you from Australia?

Yes. And sorry nibs, it came from the open last year when you started calling me teacher-San I believe.

[teacher]

I donno. I think one of the three wagons is on scum, because I feel like a counterwagon. I’m going to reread tomorrow and see where I come out.

[teacher]

My inlaws are taking the kids at 4pm my time, and I will be playing all evening so leave me anything you want me to address while I try to resort this thread.

I will say that there has to be a scum in the active posters, a point most people are overlooking. I have only been in one other game that reached any kind of this length on D1, and scum were quite active. It makes rereads really challenging/

[teacher]

I wonder if you think I actually care what I sound like?

[teacher]

I have conmitred and follow through on the commitments. It will be tonight.

But I’m a bit upset that you think I haven’t provided any so far. Not to my usual standard - sure. None/less than whiz/Blatant/Flippy? No.

[teacher]

I did not. I do think you’ve been provided some content but nowhere near as much as I’d expect from you. I know I tend to SR you, so I’m trying to be patient and give you time to produce something more thorough. Don’t jump down my throat because my wording was vaguely ambiguous.

Im just frustrated, I suppose a bit at life. Im playing as much as I can, and I've got you and skit both scumreading me

without

interacting with anything Ive said. In fact, other than Norway, nobody really seems to be interested in interacting with my takes/posts/readslists -- I havent gotten any questions or takes in response, even when I welcome them. It makes it kinda hard to want to get into the game when I feel like im just casting stones down the well. But anyways, Im here now and going to do my thing for a bit.

[teacher]

yea -- I meant more the board generally. Im frustrated because I cant get into the game and I dont think thats entirely on my end (though a good part is). Anyways, Im back on page 2.

[teacher]

Interesting. It's been a while since I've had to read skitter, but she's /probably/ the best scumhunter in this list I think? Assuming none of the people I don't know are supergeniuses no one told me about.

I think she's one of the best scum players but not sure about scumhunter.

kind of corny page 1 questioning but why the first thing in your mind is the best scumhunter instead of the best scumplayer?

are you the kind of person that supports sheeping?

My reads are traditionally for shit.

I'm much better at keeping the gamestate protown.

You didnt answer the sheeping bit.

Do you think you kept the gamestate here protown? If so, what action in particular do you think you took, and how do you think it benefitted town?

[teacher]

Spoiler: Page 4 alone showing who duck is

quote="In post 61, Bingle"]Hey, ducky, If you claim SK I promise not to lynch you until you shoot all of the scum.

Otherwise I'm going to lynch you as soon as you stop entertaining me.

[/quote]

VOTE: Nibbui

pedit: oh god rolling SK against you again sounds like my personal hell

ok my early read on ceejay plan failed

VOTE: duck

what are you serious about? let me get through your bird head

I'm gonna try that thing where I don't do much til D3 then come back and obvtown and catch the scums and save the day

sorry nibbui, explaining that would be far too much effort pre-d3. ;/

talk me thru it - what are your reads & what have you done to generate AI content?
why is my posting NAI and how do you feel about the votes on my wagon/

I was with some very very weak positive feelings about Jingle sole "Yes". I think that scum more likely than not would explain at least a bit to make it look like they are generating content, but he only replied nonchalantly "Yes", and it makes some sense from a town!pov because replying like that he could get to see if I asked further or not, while also not biasing other people reads with his own (and knowing he is jingle I think he is experienced enough to put that into consideration).

Me voting Ceejay wasn't really random either. I was trying to see if he would in his next post feel pressured to vote and do "what other people" are doing or if he would keep at his own pace for longer. If he did I was pretty ok with giving him a town lean already, but in his next post he already voted to fit in. It's not good or bad but just neutral.

It may not seem like it, but the little I do I've a reason to, I just don't like explaining it every time.

I think your posting is NAI because this is how I think regardless of your alignment, to my question you would either:

1. Try to engage me even if just for a bit

or

2. Say a "I want to see more of it before explaining quack" or something

Doesn't really matter if it would be scum!duck faking it or town!duck being genuine.

the way you dismissed my early reaching just tells me that this is low-energy!duck not giving much of a care to the game rn.

@Ducky

why is my posting AI and how do I feel about the votes on my wagon?

Theres more stuff on p3 and p5.

Hey Norway, how on gods green earth did you think I was ducky?

Why is an RVS wagon in any way AI, regardless?

[teacher]

Unvote. Vote: the worst

Townie vote IMO.

[teacher]

Oh, god, I think everyone in this thread except wicked are baby mafia players.

Hey nibs, you have much experience with anyone? Same @ norwegia and BS.

Yes, I do.

have we played together?

[teacher]

I'm not gonna make extra effort of meta'ing everyone that i don't know just bc of 2 or 3 posts.

i would rather just wait some people that knows you say "yeah, usual menalque"

Not usual Menalque. Also not NAI. The spat was town-indicative for him. I dont recall you being so quick to disengage overly-harsh 1v1s, though (All-caps rage, as you yourself pointed out). Is this more mature/experienced Fumuki/Nibbui Can you show me you disengaging insomnia or like players in a similar way before?

[teacher]

cj might be town too?

Can you talk about this when you get back? (Seems like an odd take on little content, but I know you have history and there isnt much CJV/NSG to sort rn)

[teacher]

Is he normally mildly abrasive?

i didn't read him as midly abrasive actually, you came off more abrasive than he did in that convo imo
....
snip/quote]
An accurate capitulation of the conversation on reread. And I think Skit reads it well too, on the T/T possibly T/S with Nibs as the S. This is town points for Skit all around

[teacher]

Is he normally mildly abrasive?

i didn't read him as midly abrasive actually, you came off more abrasive than he did in that convo imo
....
snip[/quote]
An accurate capitulation of the conversation on reread. And I think Skit reads it well too, on the T/T possibly T/S with Nibs as the S. This is town points for Skit all around

EBWOP

[teacher]

I appreciate it, Nibs. Can you send me a link or name the game so I can see the temper of the 1v1 in context.

[teacher]

Is he normally mildly abrasive?

i didn't read him as midly abrasive actually, you came off more abrasive than he did in that convo imo
....
snip

An accurate capitulation of the conversation on reread. And I think Skit reads it well too, on the T/T possibly T/S with Nibs as the S. This is town points for Skit all around

EBWOP

Hopefully right this time. If not I give up.

[teacher]

pagetop yoink

[teacher]

I don’t like you

<3

seriously tho you don't feel right rn
also i'm now paranoid you're trying to buddy me

Again, that’s not how I approach your slot, really as either alignment tbh.

Could be Bc I just finished a four hour dinner party and am not in top form.

But a bit because nibbui as a player is outside of my read range and his domination of the early game means functionally I don’t think it has started.

i'll remember this post later maybe. depends on how things go.

Nibs, while you are around, you want to explain what this made you think?

[teacher]

quote

you can hit pm in old threads and cut out the quotes to save a bit of time (and keep your name in there without messin w bbcode)

This is awesome, thanks!

[teacher]

Hmmmm. Skitter, am I good at reading you? I can't remember and I want to get your opinion before I share my gut feels. tyia.

Jingle how r u reading me?

This interchange feels weird for you Skit - normally youre on the polite side and would answer the question before replying with one. Why turn it around without a response?

[teacher]

I'll b around for ages reading and (likely silently) judging to see whether you produce some more AI content teacher - I don't have an issue w your activity level - I have an issue w the fact it feels like you're more interested in producing quirky-sounding reads than tryna find the scums & convince us on them - your hot takes have felt off-beat and hard to follow (e.g. iirc wicked town, hunt in the active posters--ok why?) rather than nuanced and original with believable trajectory

What self-contradictory shade. If you want to be silent, do so. Id much rather you interact with it (as you do in the rest of your post).

Yes, Wicked's RVS post on you felt town. It felt like he was contributing to an RVS/pressure wagon with a naked vote. A naked vote is a decently scummy move, enough to the point that I think scum would be self-conscious of it/want to include something else in the post. Admittedly, the town points I awarded this in my reread were reduced, because Wicked came back a (real-life) day or so later to justify the vote (the sort of justification that would have taken away the townpoints in the first place).

Hunt in the active posters -- Not what I said. I said I think there is an active misdirector, not to hunt there. Im voting Flippy right now, ffs. The thread just seems unreasonably long/disorganized - enough that I couldnt get my hooks in without this hours long session.

See -- I like this, it allows me to speak my mind. Having a conversation is a hell of a lot easier than feeling like Im just talking to myself.

[teacher]

oh wait

maybe it was something about you avoiding giving me a read and pedaling that as a way to interact w/ other people

not sure but at least the last time i read your ISO i had thought this, especially since it was a bit recently and i had already "logical" posts for you to try at your own give me a shoot.

actually now that i think about it i more or less eerily predicted you would do this back there and i'm not a fan of the behavior at all.

I think youre town. The interchange you and Skit had on Wicked was pretty good. (And again, skit gets points for calling it out in real time).

I dont have any thing approaching a high degree of confidence in my ability to read you, and will not fake it.

[teacher]

- The Worst (He seems very excited about playing this. If he prefers playing town then i believe he is in this game.)

This is an odd read at this time in the game (in addition to the read of me). Most of those who know duck were at least null if not mildly scumreading him at this point. Norway, can you share what made you feel the excitement, and why you thought duck's preferences mattered to his alignment?

The timing of norway's post is also interesting and felt like a little bit of beetlejuicing after he began to be discussed on the page before. This is the first real content I felt from his slot in the reread.

PEDIT: Well that's an interesting association (?)

[teacher]

[2]he voted on an established wagon at maybe ~2-3 votes. he nakedvoted which either comes from awkward scum or town who don't give a toss about how they're viewed

[1]he didn't really present any read/stance until like a few dozen pages later - this reads as awkward to me and enforces my read on it being an awkward vote. so I don't personally really see how you come out townreading that vote.

1. I no longer do. He rejustified it a second time -- to the point that he loses the town points for a naked vote entirely.

2. I originally awarded it town points because Wicked's early game humor suggested he was not awkward (and hence not awkward scum), and so led to the more likely that he was town who didnt give a toss. That he later did give a toss took away those points (see 1).

[teacher]

I dont have any thing approaching a high degree of confidence in my ability to read you, and will not fake it.

i think the people with highest odds of correctly reading me here are NSG and TW but i'm not sure they are considerable odds above an average person.

people in general don't tend to misread me much i guess

i'm a relatively ~easy~ read as long as you know more or less how i play?

I think thats the issue. In the game we played together, and one other of yours I read around that time, I never quite understood some of your logic. Here, Im understanding you alot more. But I am not confident in what that means....

[teacher]

@teacher fair. sorry if me jumping on stuff is ruining your method. let me know if you'd rather silent judgement, my intention was to further the conversation not overfocus on reads you don't feel as strongly about. that's my bad.

No, I like it. Im going through the game again (highly doubt I will make it all the way through - Im giving myself about another 2 hours), but approaching it anew with already having the benefit of the mobile discussion is helping me alot, and I really do enjoy talking about it more than just shouting into the rain.

[teacher]

Scum are pushing the Norwegian wagon but like... ok

You have strong associations with Norway. I noted it last page and again now (i.e., on p.15). Why do you think he's town, other than confusing the two of us.

[teacher]

I dont think wicked's last post/vote were made in good faith

I know I could ISO, but I have enough tabs open. Care to quote/link?

[teacher]

was that the game where someone pretended to be nsg in a game nsg was modding

Yea, I think it was MathDino who didnt want to be known to be Math, IIRC

[teacher]

Scum are pushing the Norwegian wagon but like... ok

You have strong associations with Norway. I noted it last page and again now (i.e., on p.15). Why do you think he's town, other than confusing the two of us.

and follow up - in 384 you listed the wagon, and asked me if I noted who was the scum. Who did you think it was?

[teacher]

I wasnt trying to call you out (or Menalque, for that matter). I was commenting that both of the players that know my meta were scumreading me for being less engaged than normal, but I *felt* others were sheeping that pressure or otherwise calling me an empty slot in a way that I dont think was fair.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on whether I've been posting things to interact with. I gave a board read list, for example, and got no questions for it - only Norway calling out a surface inconsistency that had already been extensively discussed.

More I've been frustrated at the game, because Ive been on the outside and I dont think thats all on me, but I think after the last three pages that will likely resolve.

[teacher]

1944 is @Skit's 1940 - got previewed all to heck.

[teacher]

Hmmmm. Skitter, am I good at reading you? I can't remember and I want to get your opinion before I share my gut feels. tyia.

Jingle how r u reading me?

This interchange feels weird for you Skit - normally youre on the polite side and would answer the question before replying with one. Why turn it around without a response?

I'm p sure i answered that question from jingle, wherein i said i think his last experience with me was a scumgame of mine that he modded like in january
He hasnt seen one of my towngames in at least a year as far as i know

You're right, I missed the answer in 302. Sorry, thought I had even checked myself.

[teacher]

I dont think wicked's last post/vote were made in good faith

I know I could ISO, but I have enough tabs open. Care to quote/link?

I'm on my phone rn, so it's a little hard
I'm p sure it's just the last two posts in his iso

He didnt like nibbui's read of him, declared vla, and voted nibbui

For the benefit of the board.....

Nibbui suspected Egix SO MUCH that, because I disagreed with the wagon, now I am scum and he is town. And DDL suspected Egix SO MUCH that I am now scum for disagreeing with it (but oh now he’s not so sure anymore).

All because I had him as null 30 pages ago? And even though I am not the only one who disagreed with the wagon?

And Nibbui don’t pretend like you have an understanding of my scum tells. Everything I’m being accused of in this game I have been accused of in previous town games. You’ve never played with me and if you’re town, you’re really lousy at reading me.

I had limited time to post last night. The priority was expressing my disapproval of the Egix wagon because he is the one who got to L-2 and for very weak reasons. What the hell did I need to say about teacher and Bingle? Give me a friggin break. This whole game people have been assigning a scum motive to every single thing I do because I’m not playing the way that they think I am supposed to play. Like I’m just an awful scum player who can’t help oozing scum tells with my every post.

I once played in a game where mastin-Town was so certain I was scum that she said “there is no universe” where I was town and she tore apart my every post. Well I was Town in that game and I’m Town in this one too. It feels like half my posts are being misconstrued, nobody is reading a damn thing I say, and voting first/asking questions later (or not asking any questions at all). Nibbui isn’t making an effort to sort me, he has jumped to this wrong conclusion and hasn’t made any effort to question me and he’s ready to lynch me.

~

I have put more effort into this game than it deserves. I’m stressing about it more than I should and need to step away.

Mod: I am V/LA for today and tomorrow.

Scum team feels like TW/Nibbui + maybe Flippy or teacher

Unvote. Vote: Nibbui

Every accusation you’ve made towards me has been awful awful awful

[teacher]

bro you're in France the decision is already made

??

[teacher]

also mobile I'm just v quick

Im quicker. And quacker.

[teacher]

thats twice Ive seen menaphos instead of menalque -- am I missing a story?

[teacher]

oh 4 of you I guess now that nibs is here

although he does annoy me sometimes

i can /forget about the bad stuff in early game as long as you engage with me in good faith from now too?

Lets leave it be, eh? Like I thionk you did (unintentionally) get under his skin, and he was in a place that would take too much offense at it and thus it went. We dont need to go back there.

[teacher]

is nsg known for being particularly good as scum as well as town or just as town?

IIRC, she is known for town more so than scum, but is more than capable as both. I think the absence is RL and NAI.

[teacher]

Spoiler:

Neutral/Unsure:
- Emperor Flippynips (Leaning scum, but i've played a game where he was like this. Just posting memes and being very low activity when it comes to producing actual content. Has a scummy towngame IMO.)
- Egix96 (Leaning town, but he hasn't said a lot so i'm putting him as neutral)
- ceejayvinoya (Low activity terrible slot, but i can't just properly read him based on nothing. Neutral for now)
- Bingle (I don't understand anything this dude says. Could be scum intentionally being obfuscating. Or he's town with a very peculiar form of behavior i just can't fathom properly)
- DrDolittle (Almost no content to speak of. Speak up more guy.)

Light scumread:
- Menalque (I want to know whether i just don't like this guy's atttude in general or whether i am correctly scumreading him. His bad excuses to aggressively push townies piss me off.)
- Wickedestjr (I get the vibe that Skitter and Nibbui has been mentioning. Has the time to complain about the gamestate but not actively participating in it.)
- Blatant Scum (Shitty slot. All he's done so far is sheeping a vote with not much behind it and typing 1 sentence posts that don't add much.)

your townreads are kinda fine except I do prefer playing scum atm (albeit slightly!) and teacher wasn't rvs wagoned so I'm not sure why you were townleaning him in the first place - also don't think people being rvs wagoned is town indicative either so if you wanna go into any of this it might help

allowing teacher's fall from grace -- who would your strongest townreads out of the list I've quoted be?

You prefer playing as scum? Thank you for your honesty, townread has been redacted.
RVS wagons being scum or town indicative sounds like the newest statistical research for nerds now that i think about it, but teacher put his own wagon as "not RVS" so that’s definitely a cause of concern. I’m not sure i remember what it was about actually about so o subconciously sorted it as RVS. Was it a shared meta read?
Strongest townread from the neutral list? Eurgh... Egix and Bingle maybe?

At this point you had both me and duck saying I wasnt RVS'ed wagonned. Why would you not go back to check, rather than insist the wagon was on me.

Also, you dodged TW's question on why you thought an RVS wagon was AI, which is why I asked it again a coupla pages ago. I really do want an answer, so am putting it back towards the front.

[teacher]

Ya those

Weird day, gotta go, be back later maybe

skitt when r we gonna hydra

you wanna hydra in the pyp that's in the open queue rn

i guess i'll be in and out tonight

I literally nearly joined that because of who was in it early tonight

yeah, I'm in

You guys are going to make me join another non-newb?

[teacher]

Jingle's posting feels agenda-y
I'm not sure it's a scum agenda, inherently, but i think he's trying to accomplish ~something~
Idk what the ~something~ is tho

On reread, I heartily endorse this. And dont really like it, from Bingle. It is clearly intentional, but I cant decide what alignment to ascribe it to. Who has played w/ Jingle most?

[teacher]

i articulated the agenda later at some point (find someone who responded to him obfuscating on purpose in a way that he could push and then push them, that someone happened to be me), which he later admitted to so

teacher i am paranoid u are trying to buddy me again

You be you. Im just melding with you alot as I read through. lynch me to prove that meld is towny if you want. I'll get to that point in my reread, but I dont recall it rn.

[teacher]

i articulated the agenda later at some point (find someone who responded to him obfuscating on purpose in a way that he could push and then push them, that someone happened to be me), which he later admitted to so

teacher i am paranoid u are trying to buddy me again

what's the again in reference to? are you guys talking about a game that's not 51/53 that I WASN"T IN

Its Bingle in this game. The only semi-recent one I have w Skit and not you is normal2080. We had a newb quite some time back.

[teacher]

also i changed my mind on town!tw again, i now think he's scummy

how do you guys feel about A50? I didn't wanna push a vanity there but I really think he's got above average odds of flipping scum

also, I mistyped nearly every word in that sentence above

thank god for autocorrect

A50 avoids townreads like the plague, but this is a bit much for even for him, Id agree. I am more interested in the early read of CJ that someone expressed and I quoted recently, becuase I realized I messed up what slot NSG repped into.

[teacher]

cj might be town too?

Can you talk about this when you get back? (Seems like an odd take on little content, but I know you have history and there isnt much CJV/NSG to sort rn)

Skitter, this one if youre around. Its CJ->A50 not ->NSG (who repped Blatant Scum)

[teacher]

the "lynch me" commentary was completely unnecessary and an overreaction

Skitter has called me out for buddying her like every game Ive played with her in the last 3. It gets a bit annoying.

[teacher]

but this whole thing reads like you decided you were going to behave ~mysteriously~ and when someone reacted in a way that you found scummy you were going to push them

This is actually a fairly accurate interpretation of my intentions, yes.

here you go ^^^

wait, is this to me or to someone else?

No more wine for this man.

(Its to me, about Bingle's agenda -- the in game convo you didnt follow earlier. )

[teacher]

i'm trying to come up with a hydra name for you guys. i haven't read the immoralist but i can see why this character speaks to you mena.

pls do we both are not great at names apparently

also I'm kinda touched that you actually googled my name

(if you knew it without google do u actually wanna date me?)

I knew it, and dont really want to date you -- but The Myth of Sisyphus is one of my all time favorite short stories. I make my 7th graders all write a paper on it.

[teacher]

teacher i am paranoid u are trying to buddy me again

@teacher @skitt

this is the bit I was talking about, I think you both think I was talking about the first bit?

Ive never rolled scum w Skit. I tend to come to the same reads, so she thinks I try to buddy her. I find it frustrating.

[teacher]

(@Skit, fair on faking it in 1951. But still, 2080 had the same. Either way, it feels like a boring way to read me and a boring way to interact).

PEdit: Agreed on Plague, but can make my US history classes read only so much freedom literature

[teacher]

BS - town leans

Why a townlean here? Why highest, when the slot hadnt posted in like 300 posts, and whose ISO at the time was pretty fluffy?

[teacher]

@Menalque/@teacher: Stop using me to obfuscate the game status much further. If you knew ANYTHING about my play you would have known I already crumbed my role, so I'm not going to be lynched today (or ever, actually). Try someone else.

Contribute to the game status then?

[teacher]

how much freedom do you get in terms of curriculum, teacher?

also what exactly do you do with AP students vs students in standard classes?

Entire freedom, but all the kids across the network (mix of charter and independent schools) take the same test at the end of the year and my pay is based on their performance (non-AP). In my AP classes, everyone is expected to take the AP, and Im rated/evaluated by the class average. The average graduating senior from the network has 8AP credits.

[teacher]

I guess now the likes of tw & skitter will be doing a massive ISO search for my crumb, which isn't as obvious as I usually do it (because I'm trying to improve my crumbing so I would end up dropping a "bread loaf" as Gamma once called it).

I did, and found "I AM" in your opening post, but nothing after that I could pin together.

[teacher]

I had BS and flipperz mixed up in my head because they were the other ones voting you. I liked 176 by flipperz and it’s enough for him to be town for now

At Mena, ignore my earlier question on the BS townlean. But you did put Emps on your readlist, so now I have questions about this explanation - like did you fully cross them in your head (to the point that flippy's spot in your Readlist should be BS?

[teacher]

how much freedom do you get in terms of curriculum, teacher?

also what exactly do you do with AP students vs students in standard classes?

Entire freedom, but all the kids across the network (mix of charter and independent schools) take the same test at the end of the year and my pay is based on their performance (non-AP). In my AP classes, everyone is expected to take the AP, and Im rated/evaluated by the class average. The average graduating senior from the network has 8AP credits.

do you just teach AP history or other classes too?

also seems kinda fucked up that your pay is linked to their marks but maybe that's a cultural difference between UK vs US

I teach 4th grade world history, 7th grade US history, 9th grade AP US Gov and Politics, and 12th Grade Introduction to Law.

The pay is unusual -- the entire network is. But they were willing to hire someone with no teaching experience. The commute is death (1hr to drive 10 miles in the afternoon) so Im looking to transfer, but happy for now, especially with the freedom to teach how I want to teach.

[teacher]

- i disagree that the duck seems to be enthusiastic about this game for him ###

Why do you disagree about that? Do you think he was faking his enthusiasm in his opening posts? I don't see why that's something scum would think of doing. Unless that's a normal thing to do here?

Again rebooting some norway questions from a coupla pages ago.
1. Why do you think he was enthusiastic in his opening posts? Certainly 55 "dont do much til D3" doesnt feel that way.

2. If it is because of 53 alone, why do 45/103 not get the same credit for the same type entries?

As an aside, the thread greeting/Im so excited opening post is a current meme in site-meta, not necessarily genuine. see 49 making fun of 45. Which I assume was Duck's humor/response, not genuine excitement (though I think he does like the PL).

[teacher]

btw i was re:reading the last pages of this convo and my negative feelings about teacher didn't change much

Care to elaborate them?

[teacher]

but this whole thing reads like you decided you were going to behave ~mysteriously~ and when someone reacted in a way that you found scummy you were going to push them

This is actually a fairly accurate interpretation of my intentions, yes.

here you go ^^^

I got to this point in my read-through. And I agree with your response to this, finding Bingle's methodology to be scummy, in 591 -- it strikes me as a way to appear to be solvey (rx testing and all) without giving out info. But one issue that stuck in my craw about 591 is the quote above - why would scum!Bingle agree with your read on his approach? Like, that gives you some towncred for getting mentality, and it paints his own actions in a worse light, no?

[teacher]

(@Skit, fair on faking it in 1951. But still, 2080 had the same. Either way, it feels like a boring way to read me and a boring way to interact).

PEdit: Agreed on Plague, but can make my US history classes read only so much freedom literature

idk i just get v paranoid when i feel buddied,it makes me think scum don't know how to interact with me and just try to get on my good side long enough that i don't start pushing them before they can nk me

like you've already said you townread me, so the fact that you keep highlighting that you mindmeld with me just feels weird and almost excessive? idk

Im quoting and posting things as I hit on them (as you can tell from the fact Ive taken back two questions that were later answered). Maybe if I did your walls, I wouldnt be saying it as much, but its one of the more noticeable things to me as I go back through.

[teacher]

btw i was re:reading the last pages of this convo and my negative feelings about teacher didn't change much

Care to elaborate them?

if i mini-case you rn it's gonna distract from egix/wicked thing

maybe later

You dont think the last five or so pages havent done that already? Come on, if youre going to throw shade, back it up.

[teacher]

his whiteknighting on skitt is icky

@Skit, this is somewhat of what Im talking about with your buddying comments. Like I think Mena and I have similar affection/melds/mentions of you throughout the game, but you call out me for buddying several times and not him (other than once IIRC). Maybe I just notice it more when its directed at me, but it feels like thats something you fall back on alot when it comes to me, and dont do as much with other players.

[teacher]

yoink

[teacher]

it's about time i made a readlist but i don't have enough town leans for that

rn i have skitt and emps and that's it

more confident on emps than in skitt

emperor

i correctly identified emperor as town very early in a mildly recent town game and i read quite a bit of his games

you can put a bit of trust in this read of mine

i would like, whiteknight emperor here probably but it's very very different

Also, since Ive seen plenty of people give Emps TRs, and I know youve retracted yours, but this set me off a bit. Can you actually talk about your emps methodology?

[teacher]

btw i was re:reading the last pages of this convo and my negative feelings about teacher didn't change much

Care to elaborate them?

if i mini-case you rn it's gonna distract from egix/wicked thing

maybe later

You dont think the last five or so pages havent done that already? Come on, if youre going to throw shade, back it up.

and it's gonna distract more?

i think i need to stop being the one to start casing/pushing people bc otherwise everyone will just echo/regurgitate most of my arguments and i'll not be able to see townie the thought process in forming the read.

i'm not gonna forget this, i'll eventually talk about it in some point prob

yawn....baseless shade ... yawn.

[teacher]

quick check-in here:

I'm not keen on outing how i read emps in too much detail here

in the probably most recent "Hope plus one" game, i was playing with fumuki and to try solving the game i had basically read almost all his past games up until that date.

i'll try to give some vague knowledge about his meta or maybe explain without meta why he might be town but i'm not interested in revealing my ~secrets~ on him if there is no danger of him being lynched (and i don't think there is).

Basically I want you to retract this and actually explain why he was your one confident town lean 20 pages in?

[teacher]

yawn....baseless shade ... yawn.

yeah

if i ever feel like lynching you you'll see how baseless it is :' )))

Im pretty tough to lynch. Only been MLed three times, and two of them I elected to do it to try to save/steer town. Have at it. Now stop distracting from your posturing. Its not like this is helping the wicked/egix things, so why not?

[teacher]

quick check-in here:

I'm not keen on outing how i read emps in too much detail here

in the probably most recent "Hope plus one" game, i was playing with fumuki and to try solving the game i had basically read almost all his past games up until that date.

i'll try to give some vague knowledge about his meta or maybe explain without meta why he might be town but i'm not interested in revealing my ~secrets~ on him if there is no danger of him being lynched (and i don't think there is).

Basically I want you to retract this and actually explain why he was your one confident town lean 20 pages in?

Hmmm, i'm pretty sure i've already explained this?

i'm gonna grab it in my ISO + see if you should already have read it at this point

GL, its three pages long

[teacher]

@2062

Thanks. I can jive with that.

UNVOTE:

PEDIT: Want to include a case with that vote?

[teacher]

There's also no reason whatsoever to refuse to engage.

[teacher]

This post also felt weird to me for some reason. It's the reason why I was asking him about his skitter read earlier.

And I answered your question. But you never answered 353's last question that I recall. You said you would in 355 after I answered. I answered in 381, but then you never come back to it that I saw in a quick ISO skim?

[teacher]

the fact that instead of looking at the request you yourself solicited before to get a general idea of what to look at in the game, you simply went straight to re:read the game is also v v weak indicative that you asked for those requests to where look at without real thought behind like "figuring what it would be worth paying attention while reading the game thread"

but this is weak sauce, i'll talk about what i think are the scummiest point about you rn

I didnt recall getting any answers during my mobile skim. Thats part of why I was frustrated with people not engaging w/ me. You think ppl did? BRB to check.

[teacher]

I will be playing all evening so leave me anything you want me to address while I try to resort this thread.

a rundown in my egix and wicked cases sounds good for starters

especially wicked's one.

If this is what you are suggesting, I thought I had already commented on the Egix case - that I found it logical. And I went back to get a better read on you, because that colors how open I am to your cases, since it allows me to see and react to the posts in real time, and then see if Im melding with your thought process as well. So I dont get the complaint at all.

[teacher]

As of page 31, my duck-norway-wicked solve is feeling pretty good. 4.5 hours is all Im willing to do in one sitting. Im gonna collect my questions in one post and commit to doing another reread from here on tomorrow.

[teacher]

(and I am aware that duck got townier later, but wanted to record my thoughts).

[teacher]

You said you couldn't really read my slot but as soon as you started reading the game + i called you out for it you said you did town read me. what made you not town read me when you were only ~skimming~ the game? i don't think you were that clueless as to not know what my posts were like, so the fact that you apparently read the early game, didn't feel anything about my slot, but later in the re:read you call me town. i feel like my point on you trying to use me as a way to engage the thread/other people and look gamesolvy while it wasn't easy to come to a conclusion in your own is p valid.

I dont think I

suddenly

started to TR you. In fact, I dont think I TR you. Its a lean. And its a lean that is reflected in 1345 and 1355. The fact that I explictly stated the lean after you called me out is fair, but I think it had been building for longer. I just lack confidence when it comes to you.

You seem also town reading skitt mostly for mindmelding, and even though she already faked as scum the "i think you're buddying me here" thing w/ you + is town reading menalque interactions that can see as buddying, you don't seem to have any sus about her.

Yea, I see her being pro-town in several respects and approaching the game with the same mindset as me. She's never a D1 lynch for me. So why should I pretend she is?

In the "she already did this 3 times" you seem to talk as if you know as a fact that she is town and that only would make sense if you're at least almost 100% that skitt is town here

but why are you so confident in the first place when you've already seen her scum game and know this isn't out of limits to scum!her?

tr her from mindmeld alone seems p weak sauce

This must be some kind of a tonal read, becuase Im not 100% and dont think "she already did this 3 times" can be read as being sure she is town, when 1 of the times is scum. Like thats a contradiction in your thought process. More it was me being frustrated with how she interacts with me generally, regardless of alignment.

(other posts coming next)

[teacher]

Im just frustrated, I suppose a bit at life. Im playing as much as I can, and I've got you and skit both scumreading me without interacting with anything Ive said

and you don't really seems to sus anything out of them bc...?

why this isn't just scum!skitt trying to work out if you're mislynchable?

i don't mind if you think it's not

likely

but you don't seem to be even

considering

it

why is this never scum!skitt trying to shade you for trying to engage her + accepting menalque whiteknight-ing bc is pocketing him since most people town read menalque?

you don't seem to consider that at all imo

Handling these two together, because they are related.

Re: 2076 (first quote), because its a totally correct read ftpov. Like Skit sorts me by postcount, and has said as much in this game and past games. So scumreading me is consistent with her trying to solve. And Mena always does seem to scumread me. So again, its just not that suspect behavior from them. Sure, its possible, but I prefer to focus on what I think is true, rather than dive down the rabbit hole, without justification. Anything is possible - I mean the mod could be on the scum team, right?

Re: 2077: Accepting menalque is again entirely consistent with town skit. In 674, skit quite accurately captures Mena's mindset. Indeed, Mena said pretty much the exact same words in 1951 -- here -- and throughout. So again, I see her stating true facts and sorting in her way. Sure, it could be from scum, but there is an entire consistency that is far more likely town.

[teacher]

I dont think I suddenly started to TR you. In fact, I dont think I TR you. Its a lean. And its a lean that is reflected in 1345 and 1355. The fact that I explictly stated the lean after you called me out is fair, but I think it had been building for longer. I just lack confidence when it comes to you.

from an objective pov this basically isn't worth anything tbh?

you are explaining the story one way and i'm seeing it differently?

Yea, I see her being pro-town in several respects and approaching the game with the same mindset as me. She's never a D1 lynch for me. So why should I pretend she is?

i can't ever undestand how that would stop you considering if she is being genuine or not especially when it comes to treating your slot/menalque differently

Re part 1 - I think trying to get inside the other person's mind is invaluable. If you think its not worth anything, then we approach the game differently. I've stated my view of it, now you can decide if you think the story is credible together with everything else.

I can consider things without typing them (perhaps you should look into that sometime). And she should treat us differently. We are different players with different approaches, different mindsets, and different approaches to reading/interacting with skitter. So I dont find her treating us differently suspect.

[teacher]

Going back through all of those posts as a wholistic case, Nibs, it seems like most of it has to do with my interactions with you/skit/Mena. It seems like more questions (why would you do this/why wouldnt you consider this) than an actual scum-case (I find XXX scummy because ....). Like most of your case seems to be questioning the genuineness of my reads of them; the only time you call something scummy ('appearing to solve') is my withholding a read on you. To be frank, that is a lot less of a case when held against the shade you were throwing, so I feel justified in pushing you to out the case -- Im not sure you actually felt it or feel it.

PEDIT: Its not just in-game consistency (and consistency with my own mind, which is something I can also credit). Its also entire meta-consistency. Yes, Im aware that skit is hella-talented scum who can fake it. But the odds say its far more likely town. For D1, thats good enough for me. If there becomes a reason to reexamine it, I will. Same with you -- sure, logic is easy to fake, but its harder to maintain.

[teacher]

No worries. I try not to get too fired up/become a keyboard warrior. But try calling me a liar and see what happens....

[teacher]

As of page 31, my duck-norway-wicked solve is feeling pretty good. 4.5 hours is all Im willing to do in one sitting. Im gonna collect my questions in one post and commit to doing another reread from here on tomorrow.

Spoiler: @Bingle

Interesting. It's been a while since I've had to read skitter, but she's /probably/ the best scumhunter in this list I think? Assuming none of the people I don't know are supergeniuses no one told me about.

I think she's one of the best scum players but not sure about scumhunter.

kind of corny page 1 questioning but why the first thing in your mind is the best scumhunter instead of the best scumplayer?

are you the kind of person that supports sheeping?

My reads are traditionally for shit.

I'm much better at keeping the gamestate protown.

You didnt answer the sheeping bit.

Do you think you kept the gamestate here protown? If so, what action in particular do you think you took, and how do you think it benefitted town?

Kindly answer about sheeping and the above questions.

Spoiler: @Norway

Kindly address 1885; 1919; 1984; 2042 – these are kinda interrelated, so one post is fine).

Spoiler: @Skit

Reminder poke about 2014 – I know you said youd get to it.

Spoiler: @A50

Please do 2030

Spoiler: @wicked

See 2069

Can the board give meta-reads of Bingle (1997)?

Good night all.

[teacher]

i don't particularly feel you're rn but like i said my negative feelings didn't change and i think you've got the potential

Pick one. Either ounfind me scummy or you don’t. Fence sitting like this tends to hurt where the sun don’t shine.

[teacher]

Put another way, it’s tonally totally different. In one you express a read, in another you try to arrive at one.

Before I was asking for the case, you were expressing a view. I asked you to back that up, and you responded with a tone of trying to arrive at one - questions and admitting you didn’t find me scummy Rn and I would not be an easy read.

When I call you out for the final shift, you now reverse back to expressing the view rather than exploring it.

The whiplash is so much.

[teacher]

“I don’t think you’re Rn” means I don’t think you are right now, at least in the English I speak. The implied object of you are scum. Thus 2084 literally says you don’t think I’m scum.

[post]2087[/post seems to confirm this with the “slow read” comment - implying a nullity.

Now you’re back to “finding me scummy”. To me that directly contradicts 2084 “I don’t think you are”

But I’m going to bed.

Pedit: this started three posts ago.

[teacher]

i still think that you can easily be scum here for the reasons i mentioned though

i don't particularly feel you're rn

Does :thorface: mean that I’m incorrectly interpreting this statement?

Like it says “I don’t particularly feel you’re rn”. You dont particularly feel I am what? It can only be scum from the previous sentence right? So how else should I take it?

Pedit: quack, lulz.

[teacher]

Are you really trying to say I’m scum for not staying at a computer after 4.5 hours? Kindly swivel on that fence, nibs. Had you said “I don’t particularly feel

like lynching

you rn”. I totally would have gotten that and indeed it would make sense. But you said “you’re rn” where the only possible object is scum.

Pedit: I only have one fullscum game onsite, with nobody in this pl iirc. Normal2016.

[teacher]

How is this pointless if you’re finding my reaction so scummy? Then it’s AI and helpful, right?

Or you don’t actually find my reaction scummy so it’s oointless?

Again with the inconsistency.

[teacher]

But I’m exploring a tonal shift from you - trying to get your mindset and reasoning. You scumshade me, delay outing a case, don’t put one but instead question, then when I call you out for not casing you revert to scumshade - that’s not that towny of a progression and to me it’s well worth exploring. You don’t get to decide what I should do. I find real time chafs like these far more helpful than cold reads in order to get into a game.

(Same @tw, I know you felt like you sidelined me but it helped keep me at the computer. I doubt I reach page 30 but for the side convo)

[teacher]

it's AI in my pov about you. In your pov it shouldn't really matter and you should be trying to solve the game elsewhere.

Wait - you think I’m spewing myself scum, and you want me to stop????

Like, wut?

In what world does town!you tell scum!me to stop making myself seem like scum?

[teacher]

saying I stopped sorting other players to have this conversation. 2057, 2067, 2072, and 2091 beg to differ. Moreover, by the time you stopped faking resistance to having the conversation, I had already hit my planned stop point, that I called out hours before in 1926. So I didn’t stop because of the conversation, I stopped because you can’t really read 30 pages and have insights.

You called the conversation pointless - not just from my point of view, but in general - in 2120. If you think I’m scumclaiming in the conversation, why in earth would you tell me to stop?

Your posting tonight is full of contradictions, both tonal and substantive. Playing it out had a point. But I’ve got to wait for distance/rest before I decide whether it’s alignment indicative or just a good reminder that your reads are shit.

[teacher]

That post should have started *you keep.

Now I’m putting down the phone.

[teacher]

Well, since I see this is not going to die.....

post 2093, Nibbui"]

than an actual scum-case (I find XXX scummy because ....). Like most of your case seems to be questioning the genuineness of my reads of them; the only time you call something scummy ('appearing to solve') is my withholding a read on you.

just gonna for last say that this is very bs imo.

i organized it in a question-like/inquiry structure, but that's just how i operate.

I could call scummy ......

I just didn't use such a structure because i don't like it very much.[/quote]
1242 + 1718 = tell me more about how you don’t like the casing structure and prefer the questioning structure.

[teacher]

Well, since I see this is not going to die.....

than an actual scum-case (I find XXX scummy because ....). Like most of your case seems to be questioning the genuineness of my reads of them; the only time you call something scummy ('appearing to solve') is my withholding a read on you.

just gonna for last say that this is very bs imo.

i organized it in a question-like/inquiry structure, but that's just how i operate.

I could call scummy ......

I just didn't use such a structure because i don't like it very much.

1242 + 1718 = tell me more about how you don’t like the casing structure and prefer the questioning structure.

*EBWOP

[teacher]

Contradiction 2

Your posts were mostly questions too instead of analyzing content already in the posts and trying to sort from there. You seem to ask for more and more info but i don't see you doing anything useful with it.

I could call scummy the fact that you don't seem to ever entertain scum!skitt for the reasons i talked about.

i could call scummy the fact that you were saying "someone help me read nibbui" in early game and later when i called you out, you give me a town read while you were in your catch-up still in early game.

i could call scummy you overreacting with a hard-stance like "lynch me to prove that it's towny".

Either Im asking questions and not taking stances, OR my stances are scummy. You really cant have it both ways.

[teacher]

Contradiction 3

I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULD STOP

You’re right, you never used the word stop. But kindly do tell me how ANY of the below should not be taken to mean stop?

this back and forth is just pointless tbh
….

p-eddit: gonna read that wall in a bit but i doubt it's worth it

i don't think so but i don't want to sit here and keep discussing with the "cased" person

i think there's p much nothing more to be said here from my part?

i'm gonna active lurk a bit

he seems more interested in keep going at the pointless convo than to stop getting sidetracked and sort other slots.

i do care if you find a priority to keep engaging me in pointless stuff instead

So "you never told me to stop" spewing my alignment? You made quite clear you were not interested in the conversation, even though you thought it made me obviously scum?? That, my friend, is absurd.

[teacher]

What i think spewed your alignment was to keep going/insisting at it by distorting things in a silly way like you're doing right now.

I am just quoting your words. I close with the same question I asked in 2104 - was there any other interpretation of the ACTUAL WORDS you typed? Like sure, you meant something else (I dont feel like lynching you), but thats not what you typed. My posts have quotes and links for a reason -- to prevent the exact distortion you are referring to. You may know what you meant, but Im quoting what you said.

As for insisting on keeping it going/getting sidetracked, like tw said, it takes two to tango. You alone kept it going at times -- signing off in 2090 and coming back in 2093, then coming back this morning with 2137. Like no, Im not willing to let a post I strongly disagree with have the last word. You arent either. You arent able to call our shared character flaw scummy in me while claiming town leader

I have to get my kids back. Since you seem so focused on the sidetracking thing, why dont you look at 1926 calling out my deadline and see if you think our conversation really stopped me, or you want to contradict yourself on that shade too.

[teacher]

i don't think i'm

wrong

but if

i'm

, sorry, however what you did here was always always always scummy.

this is honestly just too rich.

See, the implied object of "i'm" here is wrong. Thats how English works.

i still think that you can easily be scum here for the reasons i mentioned though

i don't particularly feel you're rn

i still think that you can easily be

scum

here for the reasons i mentioned though

i don't particularly feel

you're

rn

But when I apply the same grammar to try to interpret 2084, I suddenly become the scummiest person on the PL?

(Why I keep going on this is because the miscommunication was so F'ing obvious to outsiders, I dont get why you cant see it fmpov. But you cant, which makes me question if youre even trying to honestly sort me.)

[teacher]

Mena, you around?

[teacher]

ugh... I had fun last night until nibbs, and that sent me on tilt something hard.

Like I dont see why it resulted in a wagon on me, but whatevs. /idgaf mode activated.

The one vote on me I truly dont get, given our history, was Skitter. To me, that interchange, pedantic though it might have been, was so similar to 1951 (right down to the miscommunication with foreigners) that I dont get how it looks scummy in her eyes. Thats kind of why I wanted to vibe with Menalque about it, since he was there too.

Im not going down that rabbit hole again for my own sake (too much grading due by Wednesday morning). All I will say is that I took 2079, 2084, and 2087 at the face value of their plain text, and then Nibs jumped all over me for not understanding what he was trying to say (rather than what he actually said). From that point on, all Ive been trying to do is show Nibs how those three read together would lead to my understanding. I truly dont get how he cant see that, but whatevs.

Someone in this thread asked me how I read Nibs. I see them as town (even more so now) but with shitty ass reads.

Im going to dive more tonight, but grade first, so Ill be on in a bit.

[teacher]

I should have a few hours here and there throughout the day to devote to this game.

Did you get trapped in Egix's amazing ISO for 1.5 hours too?

[teacher]

K - what was your conclusion on the genuineness of that post?

[teacher]

was so similar to 1951

lynx?

viewtopic.php?p=11191955#p11191955

[teacher]

yoink

[teacher]

I have never null read her and she is a player that cares about meta. I think Id want to scum read her becuase Id want her out of the game faster, and so keep open the possibility of going there and get others to treat her analysis as suspect. Still havent rolled scum against her so havent spent all that much time thinking about it, tbh. Just would be on the hooks to not buddy.

[teacher]

Starting to feel good about Almost50 too.

is this good scum good or town good

Town good.

From what? the seeming nonchalance?

[teacher]

Blergh. I do t get why you two wanted to do this. It makes connecting ISO’s and doing multiples harder.

[teacher]

VOTE: wooper

This is what I’m feeling most rn.

[teacher]

faut pas me tuer, tu decouvrais, macaque.

[teacher]

I just kinda want to say....

[teacher]

Yoink

[teacher]

I am like Hermès, flying in on winged feet to take your offerings of Pagetops.

Do you really think the leading wagons are on scum with the gamestate stalled out?

VOTE: egix.

[teacher]

Do you really think the leading wagons are on scum with the gamestate stalled out?

Can you expand on this more rather than just throwing out one-liners?

I feel like nothing has really happened in the 60ish hours since the wagon formed on me. Just awaiting. Which tells me the two people most likely to be defaulted are probably not scum (since I know I’m not). Didn’t think it needed explaining tbh.

[teacher]

That would be a more compelling argument without serial lurkers

Eh, we’ve gone from >10pgs a day to <5 at an odd point in the day, at least by my feel. I agree several slots have lurked the day away, but the whole feel of the room changed, at least fmpov.

[teacher]

I don’t think it already existed? Like maybe norway, but it was the bash w Nobs that made it a wagon w three quick bites Sunday morning IIRC.

Mena- I’m basically down down for doubling your vote wherever. I don’t have a good feel for the game yet, but am confident you’re town. I don’t want Bingle to go yet, because I like his perspective, but would agree A50s slot hasn’t done much.

I think I was also wrong on Norway, but would like someone to jive with other than ducks hard defense that didn’t really resonate w me. I’m in class but around tonight.

[teacher]

No offense taken. In fact that’s what I called out - like I don’t know all that many people on the list but skit should certainly not see that as scum indicative, yet voted? That was weirder than anything else after the dark ran and you experience in 1951.

VOTE: a50

[teacher]

Just one more thing.

[teacher]

Yoink

[teacher]

Oh wait

actually the real counterwagon-try list is

Egix, Bingle, Wooper, A50.

Show work please. This is so looped full of contradictions it’s silly.

Egix was tried by bingle, but bingle is next on your list? Conf bias is a heck of a drug mate.

[teacher]

Do you really think the leading wagons are on scum with the gamestate stalled out?

Can you expand on this more rather than just throwing out one-liners?

I feel like nothing has really happened in the 60ish hours since the wagon formed on me. Just awaiting. Which tells me the two people most likely to be defaulted are probably not scum (since I know I’m not). Didn’t think it needed explaining tbh.

I still don’t feel like you really answered the question. Why does ‘nothing happening in 60ish hours’ indicate that you and Wooper are both town?

Because if one of us were scum someone (other than nibs) would be pushing something and/or the other one.

[teacher]

Why does ‘nothing happening in 60ish hours’ indicate that you and Wooper are both town?

Because if one of us were scum someone (other than nibs) would be pushing something and/or the other one.

What is your read on Wooper right now? Because not too long ago you voted him and said "This is what I'm feeling most rn" but a brief skim of your iso shows that you were TLing him a few days before that.

Your view point that you/Wooper are both town from the game slowing down seems like giving Wooper an easy pass (and yourself for that matter). In particular, it makes the assumption that scum weren't already pushing your wagons. And I think there are other strong explanations for the game slowing down.

To be frank, I didnt like egixs votepark or your joinder. I left because I didn’t like the wagon, not because of any read on him. That said, I’ve seen scum duck and don’t think this is similar. Like he has been offmeta for me, which is why I was feeling it, but I’m not sure the differences are scum indicative. Those are why I left - doubt and thinking it would be more advancing to be elsewhere.

[teacher]

teacher

(4):

Volpe14

,

NorwegianboyEE

,

DrDolittle

,

Almost50

Almost50

(4):

Menalque

,

teacher

,

Bingle

,

Wooper

Wooper

(3):

Egix96

,

northsidegal

,

Wickedestjr

Bingle

(1):

skitter30

making this vc pretty is a really interesting exericse
VOTE: teacher

@woop - what made NSG greenish?

[teacher]

Tw is wooper. Nibs is volpe.