Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[rb]

oh it finally opened

hi, backreading

[rb]

SS is playing with more activity than i've ever seen him play

idk what that means for his alignment tho

[rb]

Billy seems town

[rb]

i dont like suji's early play for the most part, and i like that skitter voted them for their roundabout play. not convinced suji is scummy for it (wouldnt it be great if being vague meant scummy?) but i like skitters preparedness to go for it

flubber is playing well, but doesn't strike me as particularly town

everyone else is blending into my head atm
as for the draft, i had no idea what i was doing so i picked 69 because LMAO SEX NUMBER

[rb]

VOTE: AaronFrost

looked at both leading wagons, i think this is a better vote

mechanics focussed, own reasons for voting are poor and reek of wanting to be inconscpicuous rather than voting where they truly believe is most likely to hit scum

[rb]

skitter town, skitter wagon bad

[rb]

@Aaron - in Haunted, the setup spec was almost entirely led by scum. The primary contributors from my memory were Vork and NaCl. The people that were trying to end it were all town.

My issue with Xayah isn't that she was trying to stop setup spec. My issue was the inconsistency between 110 (SS is obvscum because setup spec) and 307 (why is SS obvscum to you people?) followed by the vote someone who had little participation in it. How did we get from point A to point B?

Could the players doing setup spec be scum? Sure, but I'm not willing to lynch someone just because of that.

id be willing to lynch SS just for that, but i think you're a better lynch (=

[rb]

I want luca to be scum because then this game would be ez solve

do something scummy imo

[rb]

actually need to check something on skitter

[rb]

why are you so paranoid about nom being scum and then park your vote on Billy?

=|

[rb]

I think Luca is entirely wrong about most of their reads

i am bothered

[rb]

oh it finally opened

hi, backreading

Finnaly opened? We started this day after role pick.
You are so luckly to notice this few hours before your prod time.

please go on

[rb]

you know, i think kerset is pretty likely to be scum here

because it's like a soft accusation that i'm scum, but never actually says it. it's like, "haha oh yeah sure, you "forgot" - the natural follow-up would be to then say why they think i'm lying? or think i'm scum?

also: their only focus on all the content i've provided so far is not any of the opinions i've had about the game, but literally just the post in which i said, "i'm backreading"

this doesn't scan to me as town, whether new player or not.

VOTE: kerset

[rb]

also most of their posts is just weak setup speculation

then an announcement that, "hey town seems clueless" - with zero attempt to actually provide a clue or direction

scummy as heck imo. complaining about a town performing poorly, without providing content to improve town's state of play is what scum do to look like they're frustrated town. but they really don't look that way at all to me

[rb]

i'm gonna call it NAI because that seems most accurate but yeah that's my feeling as well

[rb]

vote kerset with me no.7 fan

[rb]

@Luca: what previous experience do you have with Aaron that justifies him both having reasonable expectations of your typical towngame, and also, do you think that his confidence you're town is justified by your performance in this game based on that previous experience?

[rb]

aaron, opinions on kerset pls

[rb]

you know, i think kerset is pretty likely to be scum here

because it's like a soft accusation that i'm scum, but never actually says it. it's like, "haha oh yeah sure, you "forgot" - the natural follow-up would be to then say why they think i'm lying? or think i'm scum?

also: their only focus on all the content i've provided so far is not any of the opinions i've had about the game, but literally just the post in which i said, "i'm backreading"

this doesn't scan to me as town, whether new player or not.

VOTE: kerset

The natural follow up for you would be to either admit that you lurk or disagree arnd claim that you lack of time or really forgot about this game. If you throw away all of your reads just to counter attack, then I am satisfied with my RT.

i don't feel any need to defend myself. the fact that you focus solely on the first part of my content where i simply say i'm backreading the game that took 4 days to finally open, which i forgot about in that time is much more relevant to me than any concern for your accusation.

you know why? because you didn't even attach a vote or even apply a scumread. you just said, "sure, you forgot" and left it at that

and now the only content you're providing is to _defend yourself_ where previously all you did was talk mechanics, and complain about the state of the town's game - with no effort to improve the state of the town.

you're more concerned about how you appear than in solving the game, it's obvious.

[rb]

@Luca: what previous experience do you have with Aaron that justifies him both having reasonable expectations of your typical towngame, and also, do you think that his confidence you're town is justified by your performance in this game based on that previous experience?

Two games previous, one where I was scum and he was town, and one where I was town and he was scum.

Kerset could be scum. They parked their vote on me pretty early for weak reasoning and posts have been mostly fluff other than early game setup spec.

are you really that confident in a townread on someone based on a sample size of one town game?

[rb]

moreover, wouldn't you expect that Luca would probably go out of their way to appear reminiscent of their towngame to someone with a limited sample size to go off?

[rb]

@Luca: what previous experience do you have with Aaron that justifies him both having reasonable expectations of your typical towngame, and also, do you think that his confidence you're town is justified by your performance in this game based on that previous experience?

Two games previous, one where I was scum and he was town, and one where I was town and he was scum.

Kerset could be scum. They parked their vote on me pretty early for weak reasoning and posts have been mostly fluff other than early game setup spec.

forgot to say: vote kerset with me then? =]

[rb]

[rb]

i don't feel any need to defend myself. the fact that you focus solely on the first part of my content where i simply say i'm backreading the game that took 4 days to finally open, which i forgot about in that time is much more relevant to me than any concern for your accusation.

you know why? because you didn't even attach a vote or even apply a scumread. you just said, "sure, you forgot" and left it at that

and now the only content you're providing is to _defend yourself_ where previously all you did was talk mechanics, and complain about the state of the town's game - with no effort to improve the state of the town.

Why did you assume that i disagree with anything else? You state that i provide no content. Were would you read that there was anything else that was bothering me?
Even if you somehow guessed that i disliked one of your opinions, why would i comment a statement, which is one sentence long? It was obvious that you only glanced on topic so far, because you gave no arguments to discuss about.

I won't vote people every single time i ask them a question.

you're more concerned about how you appear than in solving the game, it's obvious.

You beg Aaron and wooper to backup you with votes - you are the one concerned about your appearance. For what other reason would you need votes on me right now? Especially the one, which came out of sympathy. I am not on L-2, so all you can get here is good look.

VOTE: rb

2 things

1. if you don't comment on anything i say other than one thing, you don't get to complain that i call you out for that. if you have ideas about what was said, you should be providing them. are you saying that you agree with my content? here again, you are neither confirming nor denying a position, you are playing totally non-committal and afraid of placing much of an opinion on anything. but not only that, when you're pushed all you actually do is just end up OMGUSing instead of providing any content

2. why would i want votes on you? because i think you're scum. more votes on slots that i think are scum is a good thing. the thing is, i agreed with you earlier and i think you were right when you said that by vote counts the town looks clueless. but unlike you i'm aiming to fix that. we now have a clear direction in the game that puts us closer to solving it. we now have a stronger wagon than any wagon we've had before, and people are much more likely to provide content that we can try to judge their alignment by.

[rb]

@Luca: opinions on Kerset, since they're now the largest wagon in the game?

[rb]

@Aaron: how likely do you think it is that Luca is buddying you?

[rb]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

[rb]

oh hi fetched hi hi

wanna talk to me? i like that you scumread luca when he seems really townread because all the reasons he's been townread don't add up to me

i just finished a 10 hour shift and i feel too tired to analyse things but pls cliffnote your reasons for thinking Luca is scum?

also do you think it's likely skitter would be scum with luca?

[rb]

@Aaron: how likely do you think it is that Luca is buddying you?

Why do you ask? Do you think that just because he's townreading me that means he buddying me? It's feels more like you're trying to buddy me right now which is weird given that one of the first things you did was join my wagon.

i voted the equal leading wagon i believed was most likely to flip scum upon entering the game

problem?

[rb]

id be willing to lynch SS just for that, but i think you're a better lynch (=

forgot to say: vote kerset with me then? =]

Yeah actually looking back I don't see how this is town motivated. How do we get from "Aaron is a good lynch right now" to "Aaron come vote Kerset with me?" It just feels disingenuous and like it's manipulating me into doing something that others might perceive as scummy.

VOTE: rb

why would others perceive you as scummy?

in fact, why so concerned about what others think of your alignment?

it's quite simple: i voted the wagon i believed most likely to flip scum, but then my kerset scumread outweighed this. as a result, i wanted to see if you'd vote my best scumread in the game

the real question is why you think it's weird that i would want more people to vote my strongest scumread

it's a thing i always am baffled by when people decide my play is 'scummy' because i like to have other people voting my best scumreads. your vote is the most important tool in the game, no?

[rb]

Both rb and Kerset are arguing in super bad faith here which is really throwing me for a loop.

how is my argument in bad faith?

kerset talked mechanics, then did nothing but make vague complaints about town sucking, with zero effort to do anything about it, and is now just OMGUS voting me

does that seem like a town-aligned progression of play to you?

[rb]

i'll reread it later

i think rb is being manipulative / buddying-y tho and would prefer that for now since i really don't have thoughts on kerset

can you please outline how you can simultaneously insist that you have not paid much attention to our interaction, but also be so resistant to any idea from other slots that have apparently paid attention to it: that kerset is not scum and yet i am likely to be?

nomnom brings up similar points to what i did?

are they also scummy?

line of thinking does not compute

[rb]

rb does feel verbose but I need to think about that.

I think Kerset's end of the interaction was very odd for sure. I'll even go ahead and VOTE: Kerset. That iso is textbook pessimistic scum having a very low vote/fos ratio. I think the key to decoding rb is actually residing in Kerset's wall.

ok

i reread:

a) rb is verbose, sure, but that's not what i'm particularly taking issue with, it's that his posts are manipulative and seemed designed to 1. get aaron to doubt his townread of luca 2. buddy aaron

b) this is why i found rb to be scummy

c) i still don't particularly have thoguhts on kerset. i read their convo a few times and it just kinda ~is~

if you read my posts you'll see that i think luca is also a scumread of mine

So i questioned why aaron townreads him, because aaron said he has prior experience. that means i have two thoughts: how much experience, how relevant it is, and whether or not aaron realises that scum!luca would be aware of this and is likely to play in a way that would get a townread from aaron

these are the things i would expect town!aaron to consider, so when i ask aaron to outline these things, what im searching for is not to make aaron doubt his read: but for information that shows me that aaron himself is going through these processes.

questioning aaron's read is about me finding out aaron's alignment, not about me 'throwing shade' at luca

i have only one vote however, and it makes no real sense for me to simultaneously split my pressure across two slots. i can't realistically push for a kerset wagon as well as a luca wagon - but that doesn't mean i won't try to find out other people's alignments in the process

[rb]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

How about you state your points against me instead of attempting to elicit reasons from others?

i think your play lacks direction, despite knowing that you're usually a capable and matter of fact player as town who states what they think and pushes in the direction they believe will hit scum.

it's possible that i'm overestimating your townplay, or that you just aren't really pinging heavily on a scumread yet and so aren't the town player i'm used to. nothing you've said really pings me as you being either alignment, which is why i said earlier "i hope Luca's scum because then this game would make a lot more sense"

it also confused me to see you, a player who's relatively familiar with my game to be ambivalent about my entrance. it's like you don't want to acknowledge anything about my play either way, which is not the kind of player i'm used to. all that said, there's feasible reasons you might not be playing the same way i remember your town game, and kerset is like a beacon of obvscum

[rb]

@Mod can we get a vote-count?

[rb]

all that said: i like that you still bring attention to flubber's play. it's something i noticed when i first started reading that i was curious about.

if you think flubber is more likely to flip scum than kerset, then i think you should vote and pressure there. i don't believe that it makes sense to have a binary choice of me/kerset. i don't want the game to revolve around me, but i've made my case for kerset. Wooper+nomnomnom are on board not just with the idea that kerset is scum, but also that i'm town.

[rb]

I don't think it's manipulative? Like he's not trying to trick Aaron into weakening his Luca townread. He's straight up trying to break down the read. It's not as though Aaron might change his read without realizing why he had changed it or that rb was trying to get him to change it.

how does outright asking Aaron to clarify the reasons for their townread of Luca equate to manipulative?

[rb]

i think it's funny that kerset complains about the town lacking direction and then votes the player giving it the most direction that it's had all game, purely because the direction is towards them

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[rb]

well i found frost scummier than skitter, you thought i was scummy and suji actually struck me as kinda town?

in those 3 reads i was bothered

at this point i have no real stance on suji, on re-read they're just kinda...'fine' - actually a slot that warrants more analysis imo

i guess i don't have any real issue, and maybe i'm confusing you with someone else. i thought we'd played as town/town multiple times? i don't actually know anymore ~_~

[rb]

@Luca: opinions on Kerset, since they're now the largest wagon in the game?

I had just said a few posts before that Kerset is a slot that I could see being scum but I don’t want to lose sight of Nom atm. Speaking of which, what do you think of Nom?

And could you also answer my question in 368?

i think nom is probably town?

unless they're scum and buddying, which isn't impossible but also seems unlikely. i'm pretty sure kerset is scum, but i also didn't really not nomx3 throwing much suspicion kerset's way prior to me doing so. do you think they're likely scum?

[rb]

didn't really note*

[rb]

i iso'd sirfetched

they're doing multiple pro-town things on day1, so i think the chance they flip scum is low

[rb]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

and why we shouldn't lynch something smart

[rb]

I dont like the way he's going about the bolded

What about it don't you like?

Because i dont know why town tries to undermine/break down a townread

already explained in 517

[rb]

Rb what is your current read on kerser exactly

scum, obviously

[rb]

there's awkward new and there's awkward new scum

[rb]

more importantly skitter: who are your actual scumreads

because...you _aren't_ new and you know better than to spend a majority of your time playing the game on nitpicking at someone else's scumreads?

who do you actually scumread and why?

this is poor content, let's go

[rb]

there's awkward new and there's awkward new scum

What's the difference, in your opinion?

one is the thing you lynch

[rb]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

and why we shouldn't lynch something smart

Why should we lynch something smart

Luca is town, i think

nah, i'm done answering questions for you to restate the same questions at this point until you actually provide content of your own

complaining about other people having reads isn't a substitute for you actually having reads.

[rb]

one is the thing you lynch

Don't sidestep the question

i can generally tell when someone's just new or when they're new scum

i've played a bunch of newbie games and there are general tells for new!awkward town players - and kerset ticks none of the boxes.

at this point you have to also be aware that there's now 4 people who all think kerset is pretty scummy for similar reasons to me. by pure numbers, one of us is town. and unless you think that the scumteam is nomx3, wooper and myself, and that for some unbeknownst reason where none of us were under any pressure, we all decided to push really hard on kerset (again, if you are assuming that we are the scumteam) only to have them flip town?

for what?

so unless you're gonna go full idiot mode and assert that, maybe you should actually re-read kerset yourself and decide whether or not they're awkward new or if there's a decent chance they're scummy.

[rb]

i've seen awkward new town try to get town on the right track when they feel like the town isn't making headway. they might do a terrible job, but they try. kerset doesn't

awkward players still try to find scum, awkwardly, but they do try. kerset doesn't.

kerset doesn't...do anything town

there is awkward play with a believable "okay this person is not doing great, but they're trying to find scum"

and there's people just not doing anything

[rb]

at this point you have to also be aware that there's now 4 people who all think kerset is pretty scummy for similar reasons to me. by pure numbers, one of us is town. and unless you think that the scumteam is nomx3, wooper and myself, and that for some unbeknownst reason where none of us were under any pressure, we all decided to push really hard on kerset (again, if you are assuming that we are the scumteam) only to have them flip town?

Wooper thinks Kerset is town I believe? Why include him in the list?

oh does he?

bad wooper

[rb]

can we get a VOTECOUNT

[rb]

i think your play lacks direction, despite knowing that you're usually a capable and matter of fact player as town who states what they think and pushes in the direction they believe will hit scum.

it's possible that i'm overestimating your townplay, or that you just aren't really pinging heavily on a scumread yet and so aren't the town player i'm used to. nothing you've said really pings me as you being either alignment, which is why i said earlier "i hope Luca's scum because then this game would make a lot more sense"

- i think you're overestimating his towngame
- this seems in line with his towngame that i've seen before
- i'm not sure why you're characterizing his play as lacking direction, or what that even means in this context

which town games did you see before?

[rb]

oh no, if i question it i'm 'breaking a townread' and that's scummy

guess i just have to take your word for things and not be curious how you come to conclusions, because that would be scummy

sorry skitter, i have now changed my mind entirely. kerset must be town and i can't ask why you think that or what your previous experiences were

[rb]

i can generally tell when someone's just new or when they're new scum

What is your success rate at doing this?

pretty high i think

i've argued to not lynch awkward new town as well as argued to lynch awkward new scum

also i always push hard on muh top scumread

it's just what i do

[rb]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

I don't.

so why are you voting them

[rb]

i dont give a shit about other people's theories on mafia

[rb]

reason being: it's not alignment indicative

if nom was scum, they'd talk about it to support their reads

if nom was town, they'd talk about it to support their reads

don't care, has no bearing on how i read the alignment of that slot

[rb]

ok, why?

[rb]

and who would you prefer to lynch?

[rb]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

[rb]

also wowow

kerset's actual townplay in those previous games is so, so, SO different to this game

[rb]

it's like looking at night and day differenc

verified town!kerset: has thoughts, pushes in the direction of those thoughts, calls people out when they think they are being poor town members and then PUTS THEIR VOTE ON THEM

nup, no fucking way do you read their previous games of town!kerset and then get town!kerset here

kerset is scum and skitter is coaching them

lynch both

[rb]

you know, maybe more pertinent: skitter is even more obvious scum for pretending to see town!kerset in their play in this game

if by some miracle kerset flips town, skitter still scum

i would lynch skitter here bc i think they're scum regardless of what kerset flips

[rb]

who is the scummiest player in the game then?

Probably aaron or bilky

I havent read any of kerset's previous games

did you not say that your townread of kerset was based on your prior experience in seeing them play?

[rb]

which town games did you see before?

Mini 2101 i think, it ended like two weeks ago, the one sky/tw modded

Incidentally i was scum there, but i'm not sure that's particularly relevant to the subject at hand

If anything i think he's being townier here than there

He only wasnt mislynched there cuz i faked an inno on him

^^ hello?

you played an entire game with them?

[rb]

oh, okay

well anyway go look at kerset's town games then

because i thought you were referring to kerset and i was gonna tunnel you into oblivion for saying that. they're very different

[rb]

kerset in both of their newbie games are markedly different to here

[rb]

so much town swag in previous games

you are literally a husk of your previous games in this game

[rb]

kerset in both of their newbie games are markedly different to here

Well this isn't a newbie game...

irrelevant

people don't suddenly lose the ability to have ideas and place votes for town-motivated reasons just because the game they're in doesn't say "newbie"

god you're shit to play with btw SS

[rb]

anyway i'm up way past my bedtime

goodnightgame

i hope that i wake up to people actually having reads instead of masturbating over their analytical prowess for things that have nothing to do with people's alignments

[rb]

Kerset I don't enjoy being shaded then avoided much :c

Rb avoid my question even that gave him a reminder. Life is thought.

no, i answered it

it has nothing to do with nom's alignment, so i don't care what their theory is

[rb]

now im going to bed

[rb]

wooper - I don't take him serious. I just hope that vigilante won't missshot because of his recklessness.

best scumclaim

[rb]

A few things:

- I used to think I was really good at reading newbies and then I increased my sample size and it started to even out.
- It looks like there may be some confirmation bias happening on kerset. A newbie under early vocal pressure is going to act differently to one not under that sort of pressure. That doesn't mean Kerset is town but I'm not really buying the wagon just yet. The post skit pointed out read as very town to me too.

I will post later, was skimming on my way to work and wanted to get both those points out.

kerset wasn't under pressure prior to me entering, where their play is extremely different to their previous two town games (not a thing I was aware of until I checked) and they were already playing like scum

after i pressured them, they responded by OMGUS voting me and that's about it

who do you think is scum, if not kerset?

[rb]

so offer an alternative place to vote

this game is driving me fucking nuts tbh, despite the fact that my preferred lynch is the leading wagon.

because apparently not a single town player is interested in pushing what they think is scum, but instead in debating the finer points of why people scumread kerset

i dont think i can be fucked playing this game much

[rb]

have fun being shit, see you on later days maybe if i'm not dead

[rb]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

So now you're backtracking? How did you come to this conclusion?

yeah that was the quote that confused me too

it's a hypothetical, i wanted to involve people in the discussion who were townreading both kerset and myself

[rb]

Nope

you're making a playstyle read because i actually do stuff

[rb]

so what's everyone's opinion on Sujimuchi?

[rb]

i liked his earlier posts

idk what to think about the rest atm

[rb]

k, same 4 people posting about the same stuff i see

past my bedtime as well so im goin 2 sleep

it miffs me that a full 9 slots in this game are barely playing, but at the very least there's 4 relatively active people all up who are providing opinions

i won't lynch from skitter, luca or nom today

[rb]

I also dislike the fact that we have four slots (Suji, wooper, Flubb, PM) that have barely given us anything to work with. Suji's early game posting was okay but then they sort of disappeared off the face of the earth. wooper apparently doesn't care about this game right now, not sure what that says about his alignment. I'm getting absolutely zero alignment tells from Flubb and PM needs to be more active.

hey i also think this

[rb]

VOTE: Xayah

choo choo

[rb]

not lynching aaron today either

won't lynch day1: Luca, skitter, nom, aaron
preferred lynch: xayah or kerset

everything else up for discussion

also:

choo choo!

[rb]

Ok, can you summarize your reasons for why rb should be today’s Lynch?

Rb doesn't care about lynching scum, he wants pull a wagon that will finish D1. Town player would in at least some degree doubt his meta read and try to look at other people interactions. Rb only asks other people about me to push them on my wagon, he didn't even care about nom3 theories at all (604), for him his SR aaron was positive addition to wagon (372). He is trying to bias town by repeating the same read few times without adding any value, when meantime he could just face thing like 230 (reference 232, 235).
If you read between his lines you will that he gives town points for diving deep against someone so scum!rb would definitely try to emulate a town play with something like that.

yes this is what confident town players look like

since the only variable you can actually rely on day1 is yourself unless someone is playing ultra obvtown or you somehow have a conftown day1, you should trust your own reads and reasoning more than others until something that invalidates your read comes up (if it ever does)

@skitter: what did you think of reading kerset's previous games?

[rb]

hey kerset if you join me on the xayah wagon you might get towncred when she flips scum (=

[rb]

wait why are we voting aaron, he only just started to goodpost

[rb]

I don't think you have any way to point me as scum right now so I would also be interested in seeing a wagon attempt on me.

gogogo

wagon this

[rb]

self-meta is lamest defense

more xayah votes

time to choo choo

[rb]

if finding and lynching scum was just based on having all the Most Bestest and Most Accurate Reasons Ever™ then scum would never get lynched

why? because figuring out who's being a deceptive lying poo and not playing to town wincon is not just about what people DO - it's what they DON'T DO

xayah's posting sux and isn't town

ez lynch

[rb]

C H O O

C H O O

[rb]

no more wet feet nomx3 we choo choo now

[rb]

xayah: i will not play this game much today

also xayah: plays the game a lot for no reason other than to defend herself

not xayah: playing the game for any reason conceivably town related

wow when is wagon imo

[rb]

Unvote, Vote: Xayah

YEET

[rb]

Also disregarding a wagon bc someone who might be scum in your book is on it is egotistical.

and downright stupid on DAY1

[rb]

I’m still thinking Frost is Town. If he’s scum then he’s massively improved from his first scum game where he couldn’t push anyone to save his life. I definitely prefer a Kerset Lynch over him.

yes

[rb]

Xayah flips green please go on Aaron or Kerset.

What’s made you reconsider your Xayah read/suspicion?

The wagon on her. That and Aaron voting her. Terrible vote.

CHOO CHOO

CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA

CHOO CHOO!

[rb]

This is a really bad stance. Everyone should be lynchable every day because otherwise everyone just argues to be left alive and we get nowhere.

I mean objectively some people are harder to read on the early days. It's not like everyone has equal claim to be exempted the way I just said Xayah should be.

inb4 sirfetchd says, "this is also a bad stance"

[rb]

also, i just want to point something out here:

the only times i've had people vouch for me being kept alive at times when i've been under pressure day1, were when scum 'vouched' for me and my abilities in a game. i was town all these times, and it was scum vouching for me

so if we don't lynch xayah, we're lynching S_S imo

your pick S_S

[rb]

what's your preferred lynch today Luca?

kerset?

[rb]

This is a really bad stance. Everyone should be lynchable every day because otherwise everyone just argues to be left alive and we get nowhere.

I mean objectively some people are harder to read on the early days. It's not like everyone has equal claim to be exempted the way I just said Xayah should be.

inb4 sirfetchd says, "this is also a bad stance"

It is. I've lynched day 1 a lot players who are without question better players than the both of you and had them flip scum. And all of them argued this point. It's not a scum tell, but it is a dick move.

yeah

i agree that it's a bad stance i just wanted you to be the one to say it

also i'm the best player smh

and yes i agree xayah is optimal lynch rn

[rb]

We should lynch whoever we think is most likely to flip scum

Nothing more, nothing less

[rb]

self-meta is lamest defense

more xayah votes

time to choo choo

That hasn’t been my only defense and you trying this outlook is really bad. Cherry picking is awful.

xayah: i will not play this game much today

also xayah: plays the game a lot for no reason other than to defend herself

not xayah: playing the game for any reason conceivably town related

wow when is wagon imo

The fact that the second lowest post count player came out of the woodwork to hard defend on two pretty vain votes with terrible and frankly scummy reasoning should be telling enough.

Do you both hear or see what you’re saying right now? Like, really. A player came out and got more active to themselves...No shit? Like ‘OH MY GOD SHE’S DEFENDING HERSELF HOW SCUMMY.’ I’m sorry are you saying town me would just keep lurking and not defend myself? The fact you’ve tried to turn defending yourself into something scummy made me laugh for a good minute so thank you.

If Xayah flips red nom is probably her partner. nom's not even trying to refute anything that I'm saying in defense of my vote on Xayah and continues to push the idea "Aaron's posts are bad he must be scum."

Nom was scumreading me at first though. Like, do you think Nom dives in to save me instead of just taking the bus? If you think I’m a strong scum pr then sure, but is that really worth it in the end? Even if you think the answer is no you’re doing some surface level thinking right now.

town you, if attempting to be active would probably do something more than just defend yourself (which you're still doing)

ill lynch kerset or xayah

not interested in an aaron lynch

[rb]

yes maria, your lack of any content that isn't just you defending yourself is supremely scummy

because your focus is blatantly nothing but actually staying alive

[rb]

aaron is awkward but i really doubt they're scum tbh

bad lynch imo

[rb]

i also think a straightup lurker is a better lynch than billy

[rb]

they sometimes aren't, sometimes are

in this case i think billy is probably gonna be more likely to flip town than a hard lurker tho, agreed?

[rb]

billy's early posts are good fmpov

[rb]

idk if i already said that or not, but i liked his entrance

[rb]

ok cool

pls be town tho wooper

[rb]

not really, it's an accurate representation of my experience

but my sample size of 3 doesn't mean that it hasn't happened elsewhere with different alignments, or that it's the only way this happens.

it does mean im totally fine with lynching you unless you do town stuff though

[rb]

contrasting billy's reactive posting where he's pressuring slots and giving thoughts on the game

with reactive posting which is just defensiveness and shading

why would you scumread billy over xayah or kerset?

[rb]

oh yay wooper is town

[rb]

What is with this idea you gotta Lynch in the low part of the draft. I feel the opposite.

as already stated

if you're town you should lynch whoever you think is most likely to flip scum, nothing more and nothing less. especially on day 1

[rb]

I don't do reads lists. I hate them. If you want to know a few of my reads give me some names and I'll run you through them.

here's some names, please run me through your reads

1. the worst wooper
2. Sirfetchd
3. Sujimichi
4. skitter30
5. Something_Smart
6. nomnomnom
7. Kerset
8. AaronFrost
9. Flubbernugget
10. Billy Pilgrim
11. rb
12. Luca Blight
14. PMysterious

[rb]

get back on xayah Luca

>:|

[rb]

@wooper

how come you scumread xayah?

[rb]

Luca can you give me a readslist? don't need explanations just 'gun to my head town/null/scum' list

[rb]

Rb, Xayah’s reads are pretty decent, are they not?

I think it explains her position of defending herself as opposed to game-solving, as she’s happy with the Frost wagon. It’s not optimal town play, but I don’t get the feeling she’s scum atm.

I think billy is the best lynch today. I’d be lying to myself if i voted anyone else.

i don't like them because they echo the generally agreed upon town-sentiment, and her strongest scumread just so happens to be the other strongest current wagon in the game in AaronFrost

she deliberately avoids saying anything controversial or providing anything insightful

if i wanted to make a readslist custom-designed to not rattle any cages and to keep me alive, as opposed to help solve the game, that's roughly what it'd look like

do you agree?

[rb]

also i don't really know how i feel about skitter, but i'm reluctant to push there since i have 2 other slots i find scummy and a bunch of people seem to townread her. more people than can all be scum

really dunno what to think tho

[rb]

Rb, Xayah’s reads are pretty decent, are they not?

I think it explains her position of defending herself as opposed to game-solving, as she’s happy with the Frost wagon. It’s not optimal town play, but I don’t get the feeling she’s scum atm.

I think billy is the best lynch today. I’d be lying to myself if i voted anyone else

.

this is how I feel about Xayah

what's your 2nd best lynch in the game rn?

[rb]

i think that i'm happy going with any lynch that Luca, sirfetchd and myself unanimously have a scumlean or better on for this day1

i'm a bit miffed that so much of the day has been spent with multiple slots defending other slots, as opposed to them looking for scum themselves.

but again, there's more people doing this than there are scum in the game...so at some point this weird af defending-other-players-instead-of-trying-to-find-scum became a thing that happens. nauseatingly pointless and meandering imo, but i'm super reluctant to start scumreading people for doing this.

it'd be fucking awesome if people stopped doing this though ngl

[rb]

I was the original person who scumread Aaron in the first place lol. You act like I need to have some spicy new reads to be town. No, I don't. Do I agree with some peoples reads? Yes, but it's not like these are new. You can see I had early townreads before this. Stop trying to paint a picture like I need to have 'spicy' reads to be town.

such concern over the consistency in your read timeline!

[rb]

"guys look at me, you can't vote me because i haven't done anything objectively scummy, you don't know who my partners are and my reads are fair and consistent throughout the course of the game!"

maria plz

[rb]

Luca are you okay with a skitter lynch? i'm...kinda not?

[rb]

i'm okay with this

opinion on Billy sirfetchd?

i got townvibes from his opening posts =|

[rb]

is that L-1?

[rb]

if it is, we are speedlynching anyone who quickhammers on day2

count on it

[rb]

i mean billy's not exactly a tour de force that i'm worried his lynch will make the town weaker, i just have doubts that he'll flip scum

[rb]

i swear if you read billy's iso just up to like post 321, it's super towny?

[rb]

that or i suk xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[rb]

man town maria would so be scumreading me rn

[rb]

"guys look at me, you can't vote me because i haven't done anything objectively scummy, you don't know who my partners are and my reads are fair and consistent throughout the course of the game!"

maria plz

More like you're pointing to things that are 'scummy' when they're really not. But go on, get that ML going see how far it gets ya. Like if you pointed out something that was super scummy I would understand. But the points you made are just...not really points at all

i swear you're experienced enough to know that finding scum is not just about finding who does 'scum things' in a game where the entire point of the game is for scum to do their best to avoid doing 'scum things'

not just the fact that you basically only defend yourself, but the things you say are so far gone

[rb]

i actually think your initial defense was the kind of brute force defense that works an overwhelming majority of the time for scum because of how assuredly it calls people to account

if not for sirfetchd and i being obstinate and continuing to point out the scumminess in your play, you'd likely not be a lynch candidate for today on account of that defense

[rb]

If you're going to use experience as a viewpoint why does scum me do the things I do right now when I'm one of the better scum players?

This is bs and you know it.

or this to put it bluntly

[rb]

Are you saying you wouldnt push scum!skitter?

(=

[rb]

i also agree with sirfetchd and would like to see us consolidate on either xayah or billy since we're 24 hours off

[rb]

il vote billy if it's that or no lynch

[rb]

VOTE: billy

going to bed, work tomorrow and won't be back until just before deadline

[rb]

why did scum not kill luca N1 or N2 is what really confuses me

he was never getting lynched, ever

[rb]

overconfidence is the most dangerous form of carelessness

[rb]

that's today's condescending star wars quote

[rb]

one day i won't be NK'd day1

im bad at the game dont kill me