Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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It’s clear from my posts that I think it beneath me to bus my partners day one when no one is scum reading them.
Or at least I thought it was until you misunderstood it somehow 400 posts ago when I said it was insulting to pair me with ydrasse.
And yes, I was trying to nip that in the bud, because it was silly to me. I believe farren later addressed that point for me which you conveniently left out in regards to 1719.-
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Too much information scum reads? What do you mean?In post 2741, tea leaves wrote:You are correct. Those quotes are showing my thoughts on why I believe you to be scum. The game of mafia wouldn't work if I kept those to myself and didn't share them with everyone.
I have seen TMI scumreads from partners on each other, yes.-
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I’m aware that you try to get your scum reads eliminated in mafia.In post 2741, tea leaves wrote:You are correct. Those quotes are showing my thoughts on why I believe you to be scum. The game of mafia wouldn't work if I kept those to myself and didn't share them with everyone.
I have seen TMI scumreads from partners on each other, yes.
I simply mean this discussion isn’t in good faith and after denying it you just admitted it.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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I dunno what to say to that. They make sense to me.
If you’re wondering, i’ve used this to correctly and incorrectly identify scum before I have as both scum in multi ball(I was wrong, but my reads were fantastic otherwise!) and town (on white lion in a newbie game). The tell originated from white lion.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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It’s sus.In post 2754, tea leaves wrote:Are you saying Morning is sus because she isn't giving you a hard time, or not sus?
I’m not as experienced as you are, but I’ve been bitten by the that particular archetype of mafia before.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Also, i would appreciate it if you could explain why that argument is bad sometime.In post 2750, tea leaves wrote:Ja, I agree with Isis
It’s not like most scum tells are any good or more rigorous than that one.-
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When I say pocketing I mean she was focused on normalizing relations. It was a focus for her. She chatted mostly and hunted little.
I have a perfect post about meta realignment when it comes to ydrasse and why her being relaxed didn’t mean she wasn’t scum especially when she seemed to be trying to convince herself to be relaxed as a method of method acting.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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I also think friendliness is a town tell and say as much later. But there’s A difference between being friendly and buddying on purpose as a part of inoculating yourself from being voted.
Perhaps I should say that when I think about friendliness i’m Looking to see hesitation to engage or speak with someone on a personal level. Where they avoid interaction because thy’re Not on the same team.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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In post 749, Bell wrote:Talking to people isn't townie if you're at all competent at this game you're aware that doing so is the bare minimum if you care about not getting eliminated. You've mentioned before in other games that A: You were stressed that you were scum and B: That competent scum will change to adjust for their own meta. Isis has looked at A, but either ignored or doesn't care about B.
It's not a town tell and saying it is without explaining why it is, is not convincing me that it's the opposite of what I said.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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I’ll look. I think there were two or three.In post 2763, Farren wrote:
Bell, can you give me an example of tea leaves missing context with respect to you from this game specifically? Or have all of the cases been from missing context in SIN (or other games)?In post 2722, Bell wrote:I’m willing to vote tea leaves now. I’m sorry and exasperated but you’ve missed context so many times that this is just bad faith argument at this point. Your view point is so stilted and unable to see context that i’m Having trouble seeing you as being anything other than clumsy scum.-
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In post 746, Ydrasse wrote:yes, you are right, my vote on tea leaves was for nothing more than fun.
I was being snippy and defensive at the time when I made the beeboy point due to pressure. (Nahdia has a quote about beeboy from a game I played with her. I guess he might have a habit of death tunneling).In post 748, Ydrasse wrote:i actually mean it when i am putting a vote on someone and providing reasons and interacting with them. :>
p-edit: i do like campfires...
The next post was to balance myself out and try to be more fair by saying that I *could* see where she might be doing what she said she was doing.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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The rest is all sin I think. With his initial case and subsequent cases not having anything like a counter argument to their own reasoningIn post 2249, tea leaves wrote:
Yeaaah, about this... I don't get why you'd be "insulted" that you were partnered with Ydrasse if you don't think scum!you is good enough to pull that off. Isn't that a compliment rather than an insult?In post 1701, Bell wrote:Seriously though, please don't partner me with Ydrasse, it's insulting. If I was scum this game, I would never have been able to pull that off with Ydrasse scum.
At least partner me with someone that makes sense.
Like tealeaves.
I’m also weirded out because I told tea leaves that I knew everything I said would be easily verifiable but he continued down the road of miscontextualizing my posts in other games. When I played in them and can easily dismantle any such miscontextualization.
This brought me down the road of thinking he was being too clumsy to be scum and they would care more about making sure they didn’t misrepresent me, but then I realized that that’s kind of NAI because it’s not good for either alignment to do so. But one relies on me being able to defend myself while the other requires effort on his part. I understand time constraints but this really was not handled well.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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No the miscontextualization is from all his cases that don’t have counter arguments or an attempt to understand me attached.In post 2776, tea leaves wrote:I thought you're voting me because you think it's scummy though? Wasn't that what your vote was for?
This is more a failure to understand what I mean repeatedly, like he’s not entertaining the idea he could be wrong. Because that fort sailed when he got a red role.-
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Bell He/himSharp Note
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I still strongly suspect this is tvt.In post 2776, tea leaves wrote:I thought you're voting me because you think it's scummy though? Wasn't that what your vote was for?-
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You’re slowly killing my read of you. So here I am.In post 2281, Bell wrote:*breaks out the challk*
A few of bell’s town beliefs(i’ve really already addressed some of my scum beliefs).
1. Votes can be used for pressure to get a better read or attempt to get a better read on a player or force them to reveal more information to hopefully make an informed decision. If you have suspicions, vote and see where it leads! If you have doubts try to get clarity through gathering more information.
2. You can ~probably~ determine the difference between a town and scum player if you look at the data with the correct lense.
3. Datadatadata.
D1: Bell suspects Ydrasse > votes her and tries to understand her. Engages with others, about her. > bell makes the wrong decision and unvotes ydrasse to pursue a miselimination on gamma instead.
A: This is a common consequence to how I use my vote. If you vote people you merely suspect for something you will end up changing your mind a lot and often because of your focus end up being the person that unvotes. Because I was the one with the suspicions, the wagon naturally collapsed when I made up my mind. GL pointed out that the wagon and the attention on ydrasse would not have existed without me coming in.
D 1-2. bell reads morning tweet meta. > Bell suspects her > bell votes her and questions her. > Bell. makes another decision.
A. Same thing as ydrasse approach. Bottom 3 reads at the time were MT, Ydrasse, farren. GL moved up after reshuffling with thinking MT is town etc.
You can see this in past games too, I think. This doesn’t always mean my vote is on those I suspect, sometimes I really do think they’re scum. But I don’t ever really stop engaging with my reads and this causes a lot of fluctuations.
If you apply this lense you should be able to understand me.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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In post 2260, tea leaves wrote:
Which would explain why you switched off her when it looked like she might go through and didn't commit to launching her. HMMMIn post 2256, Bell wrote:There is also no day chat for the scum team. Which means I had no means of asking for permission from her to push at her.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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@farren. Crumbing my feelings. I don’t really like pointing to the stuff people miss when context is put in game, but eh. I suspect tea leaves. Which lowered my read of him which caused me to vote him and interact with him and see how genuine his push is.In post 2746, Bell wrote:I want to make it clear that this interaction is terrible from my POV.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Hypocrisy!In post 2066, Isis wrote:it's not!
i want to tell that to people who PoE everyone but themselves too!
Didn’t tea leaves later say the game was a jigsaw puzzle?In post 2251, Isis wrote:I'm not mafia but I might be a fiddle that Hectic is playing a jig with
Would scum isis do this?In post 2311, Isis wrote:if you're not scum you need to drop the locktown on a player who only played 10% of this mafia game and vote scum with me-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Would this interaction be bad if you were scum or I was scum?In post 2804, tea leaves wrote:Also, this bit probably isn't AI, but how is saying the interaction is terrible from your PoV crumbing you think we're TvT?
I don’t like it when there might be problems in elo due to tunneling.
My reads rn remain where they were GL < isis < tea < MT < farren.
From this POV it’s really difficult for me to like this where we end up with one of us heavily suspecting due to stumping.
It’s not really a crumb, that was more a linguistic artistic license statement.
it was more lamenting how awkward this is if we’re both town which I suspect.-
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Join the mediocre club.In post 2809, Something_Smart wrote:So in summary I am bad at mafia.
We have cup cakes with vanilla frosting
Obligatory reassurance.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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That and when people vote me there’s just an omgus/impetus to look more closely at what they’re doing and why. You were backlogged due to Clidd.
I understand time constraints and that optimally, as scum, your case would be so good i’d vote myself. But that’s just not how people are scum make bad pushes, town make bad pushes.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Why?In post 2816, Something_Smart wrote:Okay but Isis really is towny now.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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I wonder if you would be this complimentary of yourself if you actually were scum this game.In post 2821, tea leaves wrote:Oh yeah, those two pages were really towny from Isis. Sigh, and I was starting to talk myself into an Isis vote.
This is why this game is so great, because no matter who the scum is, they would've put in a hell of a performance. Going up against formidable scum is fun.
Even worse is this is a sentiment that i’ve Expressed and with similar timing. Before in this game.
It is very true tho.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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In post 2825, Bell wrote:How many of my games have you meta’d of me tea leaves?-
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Newbie 2020.In post 2838, tea leaves wrote:
Mostly SIN but I very briefly looked elsewhere. You think you have noticable differences I should me metaing you for?In post 2835, Bell wrote:In post 2825, Bell wrote:How many of my games have you meta’d of me tea leaves?
A lot of my town elements are there.
Including mentioning that I wasn’t partners with a player or noting it.
In the dead thread the origin of why I read people who self-narrate based on white lion’s play.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Is this a G_L > bell vote?
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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VOTE: isisIn post 2844, Isis wrote:Bell and tea leaves are the slots I'm most interested in chopping still.
I'll VOTE: Bell with farren-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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Are you secretly bingle.In post 2849, Farren wrote:
I found your vote for S_S scummy. That was an unannounced E-1.In post 2842, Bell wrote:Is this a G_L > bell vote?
Pressure and evaluation votes do not mesh with E-1 unless they're announced.-
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Do you remember how Joey, or was it red tea, saidI handed out a town read too easily as a means of getting town read/seem as if i’m Doing something?In post 2850, Something_Smart wrote:
What?In post 2848, Bell wrote:I can’t help but feel S_S just out down two pet town reads before moving on.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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In post 2808, Something_Smart wrote:Wait, that's not true-- I'm reading Bell's posts too.
And Isis and Bell are my highest townreads so far but I don't know that that actually means anything because they're just the ones with posts I can digest.In post 2816, Something_Smart wrote:Okay but Isis really is towny now.
You updated it later.In post 2843, Something_Smart wrote:
I like Bell's posting a lot, but I'm not really sure that it's alignment indicative.In post 2836, tea leaves wrote:How are your reads looking like, S_S? Bell and Isis town and everyone else null?
It's probably something like Isis > MT (because I'm trusting you) > you (because of your recent posing wrt Isis and MT and also that one post you had about how you're really enjoying the game) > whoever's left which I guess is Bell and Farren.
Also those trust reads are really weird.-
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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You just unvoted me but without a clear reason.
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Bell He/himSharp NoteHe/him
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If my reads stay the same, my vote is going back there while i think I don’t always vote for pressure. But in this case The vote came first but the questions were right behind.In post 2861, Farren wrote:
Besides pressure and evaluation?In post 2854, Bell wrote:I disagree. Quite strongly.
There are obvious reasons why I would move my vote back to s_s in this situation.
@S_S: I don’t know you very well or your play. I think it somewhat unlikely that you’d trust a player based off a single post that wasn’t strongly alignment indicative.-
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Pattern recognition. That’s a better explanation imo.In post 2870, Farren wrote:Same reason I voted for you in the first place.
And Ydrasse did the exact same thing to GuiltyLion.
PEdit> Right now, Morning Tweet, then tea leaves.-
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In post 2875, Farren wrote:Gut-brain desync again. Brain is insisting GL's slot is at the top of the list, for the same reasons as always. Gut is saying there hasn't been enough content from the slot and insisting that it should be lower. Bad gut, no biscuit.
Yes.In post 2876, Something_Smart wrote:
Are you referring to me trusting tl's read on MT?In post 2873, Bell wrote:@S_S: I don’t know you very well or your play. I think it somewhat unlikely that you’d trust a player based off a single post that wasn’t strongly alignment indicative.-
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