Open 786 | Dream Mafia | Cult Win!

[Battle Mage]

...Jesus Christ!

VOTE: Korina

[Battle Mage]

Ok, I'm gonna paraphrase my thoughts because I'm not sure if I can get in trouble for basically copy-pasting them, but... we should have UTs,

and only UTs

claim today. If we have UTs, we can treat them as basically a public masonry, and if any cult tries to also claim UT to get into it, that's fine too, because they're gonna have to act townie and go against two people who are actually town, so they should likely out themselves relatively quickly

second, if there is a CC to anything we're not lynching them until CL is dead. Period.

Also, if CL is lynched today, everyone claims tomorrow, no questions asked. If there is only one TPR, (C1 or C2), then we're kinda fucked and we actually have to play the game; otherwise, we just automatically win

everything in Red is a terrible idea.

[Battle Mage]

Battle, explain why we lynch cult before CL is dead. They just recruit back and it makes it harder for town to find the new cult

I haven't said that.

[Battle Mage]

second, if there is a CC to anything we're not lynching them until CL is dead. Period.

Also, if CL is lynched today, everyone claims tomorrow, no questions asked. If there is only one TPR, (C1 or C2), then we're kinda fucked and we actually have to play the game; otherwise, we just automatically win

everything in Red is a terrible idea.

@Jackson

why would a CL not CC somebody? All you're doing there is giving a free pass to any scum who fakeclaim a PR. The opposite is broadly true - if we can force the CL to fakeclaim a PR in order to avoid being lynched, we narrow the pool to 2.

[Battle Mage]

I'll come back to this later when you're done spamming it with crap

[Battle Mage]

I can't remember the last time I saw a capitulation this bad. HOWEVER, it feels much more like cultist than cult leader. I actually agree with Korina in that it wouldn't make much sense for a CL to paint such a big target on themselves as she has done, but it makes perfect sense as cultist as she can assert herself as town leader by sheer volume of spam, and basically turn the day into a "you lynch my target of choice, or lynch me", which thereby protects the CL. But I don't think it's out of the question that she's simply the CL, and got over-excited / decided playing to meta and posting high volumes would make herself seem town. The self-vote to -1 would be beyond stupid as town given the importance of lynching cult today, and feels more like a power play to get the wagon to diminish (knowing there won't be a scum quickhammer).

As such, I think I'm fine with lynching Korina today, especially if we can keep claims to a minimum in order to keep the unrecruitables disguised.

[Battle Mage]

If Korina is cult, especially cult leader, means Jackson and Ythan are probably town.

Only player who has really spoke up against the wagon is Logicalcaltist, so would look there first for the other cult, although the pool is narrowed regardless

without any claims

.

[Battle Mage]

Ok, I'm gonna paraphrase my thoughts because I'm not sure if I can get in trouble for basically copy-pasting them, but... we should have UTs,

and only UTs

claim today. If we have UTs, we can treat them as basically a public masonry, and if any cult tries to also claim UT to get into it, that's fine too, because they're gonna have to act townie and go against two people who are actually town, so they should likely out themselves relatively quickly

second, if there is a CC to anything we're not lynching them until CL is dead. Period.

Also, if CL is lynched today, everyone claims tomorrow, no questions asked. If there is only one TPR, (C1 or C2), then we're kinda fucked and we actually have to play the game; otherwise, we just automatically win

everything in Red is a terrible idea.

Terrible ideas are NAI.
It doesn’t make them scum.

Often true, but in this case the proposal is preposterously pro-scum, and Korina claims to have some understanding of the setup, so ignorance is not a plausible excuse and I'd argue it is AI. She eventually concedes this herself as below, in an attempt to justify taking anti-town positions with the defence of wanting cult to win despite not being cult.

also, if there is a rolestopper or jailkeeper and you target me at all this entire game, even if it stops me from being culted, we're gonna have words, very angry

w o r d s

This post pings to me as a tracker soft

It's not. That's a post within the time I was shitposting, plus me passively-aggressively trying to prevent any TPR that could prevent me from being culted from preventing that, because I kinda wanna be culted.

Thanks for being anti-town. Vote this fam

To be perfectly honest, you really think I would join a cult game and not be at some level playing for cult, even if I'm not cult?

[Battle Mage]

Out it anyways. I'm debating on trying something, so at this rate either we solve the game entirely, or we screw town over massively.

Logical, do you have anything else you'd like to contribute to the thread or just that?

Jesus Christ.

VOTE: Korina

Well, there goes what I was wanting to do.

Korina, can you please explain this sequence of posts from your perspective? It sounds like you had a plan here, but Ythan voting for you made it un-workable, and then shortly after you basically give up?

[Battle Mage]

ah screw it, I'm gonna do a Korina highlight-reel:

Korina explains that the CL will try to be as townie as possible, therefore we should not lynch players who look really scummy:

Spoiler:

Once again Jackson, you're blatantly missing the point.

The Cult Leader will not play scummily. They will play extremely townie.

The most optimal play for town IMO is to actually lynch the towniest players d1 and d2, to try to force the CL to remain around the middle of the pack and catch them from there. The towniest players are very likely to be culted, especially if we happen to lynch not-CL at any point before CL is dead. Additionally, assuming we're on D3 with two town lynches, it's a 4v3 MyLo. We lynch the CL, the cult

cannot recruit anyone else.

That means we are no longer in MyLo on d4. We have a day we can mislynch and give any surviving TPRs a chance to get another result, or confirm themselves still. Once we're on D4 and the CL is dead, we can go back and scumhunt effectively.

pedit:
Jackson.
Jackson.

Think about it.

You are CL. All you have to do in order to win is obtain parity. That's it.
You have to survive till D3 pretty much. Assuming all recruitments are successful:
You just have to mislynch three times in a row, and you win. (6v2 EoD1 -> 5v3 EoN1 -> 4v3 EoD2/EoN2 -> 3v3 EoD3, Cult Wins)
Even if your friend is lynched D1, you just have to mislynch twice, and you win. (7v1 EoD1 -> 6v2 EoN1 -> 5v2 EoD2 -> 4v3 EoN2 -> 3v3 EoD2, Cult Wins)
Even if both of your friends are lynched D1 and D2, you just have to mislynch that day, and you win. (7v1 EoD1 -> 6v2 EoN1 -> 6v1 EoD2 -> 5v2 EoN2 -> 4v2 EoD3 -> 3v3 EoN3, Cult Wins)
Even if all three of your friends are lynched D1, D2, and D3, you just have to mislynch that day, and you win. (7v1 EoD1 -> 6v2 EoN1 -> 6v1 EoD2 -> 5v2 EoN2 -> 5v1 EoD3 -> 4v2 EoN3 -> 3v2 EoD4 -> 2v3 EoN4, Cult Wins)
Even if all four of your friends are lynched D1, D2, D3,

and

D4, you just have to mislynch that day, and you win. (... 4v1 EoD4 -> 3v2 EoN4 -> 2v2 EoD5, Cult Wins.)
Do you get the point Jackson? Do you see how valuable the CL is to the Cult?

Now, let's assume the CL is lynched D1, and we are not in setup C2:
Excluding setup C1, Remaining alive are

TWO TOWN POWER-ROLES AND ONE CULTIST

. The TPRs say who they are, and they lynch everyone who isn't them. The Cult literally cannot win.
If it is setup C1, the Cop checks whoever they want. Provided they do not return a Cult result, we have the exact same situation as before, where Cult cannot win.
Setup C2 is different, and we have to actually scumhunt.

Korina doubles down on the idea that scummy looking players should get a pass. Which would, in effect, give herself a pass to push scummy agenda and be town read for it:

Spoiler:

Look at what I posted, and explain to me,

if you are CL, why the fuck aren't you trying to play as townie as possible, to avoid being lynched?

Korina proposes an approach to the setup which is pro-scum as it outs PRs and means the cult are guaranteed to be able to recruit successfully every night:

Spoiler:

Ok, I'm gonna paraphrase my thoughts because I'm not sure if I can get in trouble for basically copy-pasting them, but... we should have UTs,

and only UTs

claim today. If we have UTs, we can treat them as basically a public masonry, and if any cult tries to also claim UT to get into it, that's fine too, because they're gonna have to act townie and go against two people who are actually town, so they should likely out themselves relatively quickly

second, if there is a CC to anything we're not lynching them until CL is dead. Period.
Also, if CL is lynched today, everyone claims tomorrow, no questions asked. If there is only one TPR, (C1 or C2), then we're kinda fucked and we actually have to play the game; otherwise, we just automatically win

Korina continues to push this bad proposal even in the face of objections, with no effort to understand what those objections actually are - too many instances to quote.

Korina then declares that she knew all along this was an anti-town idea, and she was doing it deliberately to help the cult, but this is because she is town wanting to get recruited rather than cult herself. Also an "honest" tell in here:

Spoiler:

also, if there is a rolestopper or jailkeeper and you target me at all this entire game, even if it stops me from being culted, we're gonna have words, very angry

w o r d s

This post pings to me as a tracker soft

It's not. That's a post within the time I was shitposting, plus me passively-aggressively trying to prevent any TPR that could prevent me from being culted from preventing that, because I kinda wanna be culted.

Thanks for being anti-town. Vote this fam

To be perfectly honest

, you really think I would join a cult game and not be at some level playing for cult, even if I'm not cult?

Subtle attempt to undermine a vote on her as just "RVS", as well as one of many attempts to look conspicuously but superficially helpful by badgering everyone for their comments as soon as they show up:

Spoiler:

Also welcome to the thread Ythan, do you have anything else substantial to provide or are you just gonna RVS me and leave?

Defence of "I can't be CL, as CL wouldn't post frequently". However, she undercuts this defence by revealing that she thought she would be lynched Day 1 anyway "simply because I'm in the game", in which case her posting wouldn't really matter:

Spoiler:

And I'm not CL. If I'm CL, I don't even post because I know I'm the most likely person to get lynched d1 simply because I'm in the game, and it's a cult game.

Under a moderate amount of scrutiny, completely crumbles. Claims she doesn't care, and is quite clearly only concerned about avoiding being lynched rather than actually finding scum (which is a consistent pattern across her dozens of posts). Lots of unnecessary appeal to emotion which amounts to "don't lynch me, or you'll be sorry!". Hard to believe this passion and defensiveness comes from a VT less than 12 hours into a new game:

Spoiler:

Then lynch me. I don't care at this point honestly. If you're all determined I'm cult, fucking lynch me. Get me out of this game. I'm not gonna replace out because I never replace out of cult games. Just know though, when I flip town, you're gonna have to figure out how to make up for today.

[Battle Mage]

liking Jackson for town, first of all, their willingness to wade through Korina's mountain of bullshit and actually try to ascertain alignment from it is good stuff, and secondly i think cult who thinks someone is softclaiming probably doesn't call attention to it in the way that they did.

don't like Doctor Drew making a post to say "i'm totally not cult you guys" and nothing else.

Battle Mage jumping to full willingness to yeet Korina when fully 1/3 of the playerlist hadn't made a single post, on top of "Korina is probably cultist not CL, but actually he might be CL", in 127 is worse. the first half of that is entirely reasonable, the second half feels like hedging his bets in case town consensus is that we should aim for the leader.

VOTE: Battle Mage

ah you've jumped the gun here, but I'll happily add you to my list of those defending Korina.

Did you really not think it worth giving any comment on her at all, and instead emphasise Dr Drew's 1 post so far??

Re: your comment on me, slightly premature to say I was fully willing to elim Korina at that stage, although having given some more thought, I am! I'm not sure what led you to believe I was "hedging my bets" versus giving a sensible interpretation of the situation - are you reading me in good faith, or looking for somewhere easy to stick your vote?

[Battle Mage]

Towniest

JacksonVirgo - town
Ythan - town

Nulliest

asdf335 - null
Jesus Christ - null

Scumleans
Logicalicaltist - defended Korina earlier, although will see if this approach continues - marginally scummy although contingent on Korina-flip.
Doctor Drew - 1 post, slightly scummy (i've had same feeling as scum in an unfamiliar setup recently of trying to balance working out how to play as scum, and town and find the right balance), and also it's Drew, so odds of being cult higher than par.

Scummiest

Korina - as above, super scummy.
iamausername - 1 post so far, not very good, obvious partner for Korina as bafflingly failed to comment on her.

[Battle Mage]

Korina's a dude btw.

oops, my bad!

[Battle Mage]

THERE AREN'T ANY SCUM IN THIS GAME!

Uhh, I think you're mistaken.
Scum is the general term for evils (or generally anti-town roles). The scum here is the cult.

this was a mistake - he might have admitted being third party

[Battle Mage]

THERE AREN'T ANY SCUM IN THIS GAME!

Uhh, I think you're mistaken.
Scum is the general term for evils (or generally anti-town roles). The scum here is the cult.

this was a mistake - he might have admitted being third party

There’s no way this is an actual thought.
VOTE: BM

it was a joke - there was a clue in there

Is it too early to say OMGUS?

[Battle Mage]

Iamusername, my one post was in direct reference to me playing this setup two other times (once with Korina as mod, which is why I brought it up) and I was cult those previous two times.

And as BM alluded two, I have a knack for rolling 3p/cult.

And BM, not sure what you are saying.......I am very familiar with this setup but only from the cult perspective.

But I will be around later tonight.

ah I follow - you can go back to null then.

[Battle Mage]

No one n this game strikes me as towny yet, which is weird. Maybe it's just bad player quality.

Charming!

slightly premature to say I was fully willing to elim Korina at that stage,

As such, I think I'm fine with lynching Korina today

?

although having given some more thought, I am!

!

Still nothing on Korina?

[Battle Mage]

This may be confirmation bias but the scummy people protecting Korina seems telling for something

Agree. Numerous people coming out to try and defend her, strongly indicates she is CL and one of them is the cultist. We don't need to decide that today anyway.

[Battle Mage]

Did you even look at the games I linked? And if you did, do tell us what you got out of them.

no i absolutely did not and have no intention of doing so thanks

do you have any intention of actually giving any comment on Korina yourself? I've asked you twice already.

[Battle Mage]

It may be important to specify that they are bad defenses of an actually suspicious player.

or in the case of iamausername, no defence at all, just inexplicably avoiding comment (apart from perhaps attempting to lazily piggyback off Jesus' meta-defence of Korina).

[Battle Mage]

Hard to believe this passion and defensiveness comes from a VT less than 12 hours into a new game

Now Battle, point out to me exactly where I said I'm VT. I looked through my ISO, and I only claimed to be not a UT, not Cult, and not softing Tracker. So how are you certain I'm a VT, and not something else?

I don't think you're a VT, I think you're cult. VT would be the only possible option if you were town, given your gambit to out the town PRs which you claimed was in a bid to help the cult so you could be recruited (which wouldn't be possible as a PR anyway). But even if I didn't take what you said at face value, it's still hard to believe you would run such a self-destructive gambit if you were a PR yourself, given your familiarity with the setup.

[Battle Mage]

Out it anyways. I'm debating on trying something, so at this rate either

we solve the game entirely, or we screw town over massively

.

Logical, do you have anything else you'd like to contribute to the thread or just that?

Jesus Christ.

VOTE: Korina

Well, there goes what I was wanting to do.

Korina, can you please explain this sequence of posts from your perspective? It sounds like you had a plan here, but Ythan voting for you made it un-workable, and then shortly after you basically give up?

Yea, I was gonna self-vote then Ythan voted me. I didn't wanna self-vote after Ythan voted me because then all a cultist has to do is just vote me and claim they didn't realize it was L-1, and they have a free lynch.
L-2 requires both Cult to be around to do it, and

that's significantly harder to pull off

.

You know I'm town then? and Jackson too?

Can you explain how you self-voting yourself to L-2 would have led to "solving the game entirely, or screwing over town massively"? It doesn't strike me that either was likely by your own admission.

[Battle Mage]

Also, here. Have four games of mine, all cult games, and feel free to look at them and tell me if you think I'm town or cult from them, because there's differences in how I'm playing between the two.

viewtopic.php?t=81377&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go - town
viewtopic.php?t=81570&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go - cult (alt; different typing style)
viewtopic.php?t=81822&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go - town (alt; joke alt)
viewtopic.php?t=82391&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go - publicly outted cult

self-meta bad.

The first one I was secretly an unrecruitable townie.
The second one I was cult in a game where I had to cult someone twice to recruit them, and if it's a mason, I can't recruit them or something, I don't really remember. I hated that game anyways.
The third one is this setup where I was Tracker.
And the fourth one is where I was a Treestumpted CL,

but it does show you basically how I'd spam the thread as cult.

You'd spam the thread as cult eh?

[Battle Mage]

I took that as in what specific way he would spam. But tbh I didn't read his four games worth of spam either so it was just an assumption.

@bm

ah you might be right. I didn't either.

[Battle Mage]

I'll come back to this tomorrow, timed out today!

[Battle Mage]

Don't know how long I've been gone for, but not much has changed?

Iamausername still hasn't managed to give a single opinion about Korina, which is just about the worst. I can only see it as Korina-Leader being protected by Iamausername-goon, trying to distract from her. Logicalicaltits is also a possible partner, all his posts look scummy (i.e. trying to buddy people by town-reading them and drawing mad inferences about the relationships between others) and he's defending Korina more conspicuously.

Korina today.

[Battle Mage]

I'm

V/LA for the weekend

.

[Battle Mage]

I lost my secret wincondition. Not enough happy GiFs in thread.

nice work Titus, saved it from the depths!