Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[skitter30]

I think your focus on my DGB vote is v weird

Well i think your vote was weird (and bad, and scummy), so

I basically think town!you would have tried to make infinity more viable, while scum!you saw an easy lolvote on someone imploding and took it

[skitter30]

okay, but you thought she was scummy yesterday no?

Yes, but she had a covid scare yesterday, which also might explain the altered posting patterns

[skitter30]

bc the self-vote means the wagon goes through easier and it makes it less clear how much scum had to support it to get it through

I'm not sure i buy that logic

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Also there’s one player here who’s like, intensely scummy and hasn’t been pressured at all lmao

I would prefer them to DGB but I can compromise with doing DGBif we can’t get the votes there in time

"I say notes

Here’s a readslist

skitt (obligatory TR)
S_S — strong town
PP, dave, hoopla — town
petapan, uncrowned — town lean/town with reservations
Pine — true neutral
DGB, dunn, TGP — nullscum
JV — scumlean
lil — scum
Infinity — obvscum

Update:

Dave looking a little worse for sheeping onto DGB, unless DGB is, in fact, scum

DGB looking fucking awful for the lilith push but skitt’s right that it could totally be bussing.

If both of DGB and lil are town then skitter is probably scum with infinity

S_S could be scum with lilith maybe

Uncrowned is notably townier than I had him before

Hoopla still town and idk if I get the wagon there

JV maybe is town actually? Idk. I probably shouldn’t be reading alignment too hard from this, but his apology to uncrowned specifically for not playing harder seems less likely to come from scum while not under pressure

Mostly I just want a flip, DGB or infinity would both be fine

JV is actually surprisingly high posting for saying he’s disengaged, idk if that says anything AI but it pings me as interesting to say the least"

Hmmm you are actually being consistent in a way that's kinda unlikely to come from scum imo

[skitter30]

I really don't think that town!you thinks that I care enough about eliminating DGB > infinity to decide to look worse in thread to achieve that, unless, again, you think I was lolbussing infinity from the moment I entered the game

Honestly, i dont think that scum!you cares so much about dgb in particular so much as you saw the oppurtunitu for an easy vote

However, somewhere uppage you said something like 'i've been thinking about voting out dgb all along', which i just verified. You do have a consistent thought process on dgb. And you calling back to that in the moment rn is +town, as it indicates this thought is something you've truly been believing for a while, and it's something that you immediately thought of to help your case (i.e. vs scum who was paying lip service to it, and would have had ro have scoped dgb as a likely person to be voted out upon repping into the game to consistently show that process from.the beginning and end up where you did yesterday)

So i'm gonna mull this over and UNVOTE:

I see ur vote on me but i gotta get ready for work, so to be continuee

[skitter30]

Manlque was fairly obviously blocked, stopping the kill don't out town pr, elim through claim:

VOTE: Menalque

Wut

And what do u mean about me?

[skitter30]

Aside mena do u try to kill town!me last night, was pondering that and it's kinda relevant to my read

[skitter30]

Ok gotta bounce, later

[skitter30]

The way you're pivoting off of him and he's adding you into his scum group feels fabricated. The way Hoopla suddenly swerved to Menalque looks like a bus where they realized Mena was likely going down today

I mean are u insinuating me/mena and/or hoopla/mena?

(And do you really think if i decided to bus him i'd loldrop that angle just as the wagon gets to e-1 ... )

[skitter30]

If dunn is insinuating jk/doc/rb, my thoughts are basically going to: wtf did lilith take

[skitter30]

Aside mena do u try to kill town!me last night, was pondering that and it's kinda relevant to my read

I haven't really thought about it

probably not? not for gameplay reasons but just because I joined to play with you so I think I'd take my chances on leaving you alive and trying to fool you

Fair enough.

[skitter30]

VOTE: tgp

I'm kinda thinking of going back to lilith but i'm kinda baffled by what scum!her picks there

I kinda want clarity from dunn too, but i imagine he's unlikely to provide it

But just from how last game went if he's gonna firmly stick with scum!mena for mechanical reasons i'd give it some credence tbh

[skitter30]

Ummmmm why does self-vote imply there's not two on?

That is definitely not what he said

Fair enough, i didnt read it super carefully, it seems

[skitter30]

I’m pretty sure Dunn just picked up my attempt to soft, you can stop questioning him. I jailkept mena last night.

i was wondering if that was the case which is why i didn't want to push it *too* hard
ok so the question is now if he was nk'd or if he did the nk

i have some ~thoughts~ and in many universes i suspect scum!mena tries to nk me tbh

[skitter30]

also why i didn't question your vote much more than like 'good vote'
idk what scumteam tries to nk him here tbh

[skitter30]

VOTE: mena

[skitter30]

oh whoops it is, i was thinking 8 to lim

i can unvote for now if we don't want him right on the edge cuz we want more time to talk tho
UNVOTE:
i'm on him in spirit tho ^

[skitter30]

exactly

[skitter30]

i think if mena is scum the rest of the scumteam was worried about the tracker being in play and wanted to try to avoid it
he wasn't under *that* much heat at eod yesterday

[skitter30]

i think if mena is scum the rest of the scumteam was worried about the tracker being in play and wanted to try to avoid it

This would be consistent with the scumteam having gone for that slot and failed to get it. JK is a pretty popular choice for scum.

yeah exactly, like they knew it was in play because they failed to get it
that would imply a scum high-ish up (like dunn or my slot (theoretically) or maybe just below me) if they were high enough that they thought it was worth a play

[skitter30]

yeah but i think that's less likely
eh i guess it could be mena's slot himself tho

[skitter30]

i don't think dunn is scum with mena with how he started the day tho

[skitter30]

Yeah I see that, if Menalque flips scum that Dunn post is going to look like a ridiculous TMI.

yes, and also like forcing/starting-up this whole mechanical reason to suspect him, which was wholly unnecessary as scum there imo

[skitter30]

i'm also gonna say that i still don't really townread lilith on play

[skitter30]

Something feels a little off about this ^

[skitter30]

Something feels a little off about this ^

I dont like it either but what's your reasoning?

Feels like a bandwagon-y vote no matter what alignment mena is

If mena's town they're just sliding on another vote and making it that much easier for the day to end when multiple said we're not ready for that yet.

And if mena's scum it just feels like they're trying to make sure they're on wagon before a flip

Like the vote feels like they wants to be on the wagon, not like they are votimg because they think/want mena to flip scum, if that makes sense

[skitter30]

Mena i'm starting to get really tired/frustrated that you keep swiping at me.

I dont really get why you're scumreading me, and i dont feel like you're trying to sort me

I'm not 100% convinced that you're scum here (in fact i think that all of this you're posting e-1 is more likely than not coming from town, if we ignore the mechanics of it all) and i would like to at least get to a point wherr i'm comfortable with my read on you before we wnd the day.

I really dont like your scumread on me tho, it doesnt make much sense to me

[skitter30]

Lilith, is there a reason you're still not really playing ... ?

Like i get that you're claiming a semi-guilty on mena but you're doing like nothing else and your play still doesnt look like town and i'm running out of reasons why i should continue giving that a pass

[skitter30]

But then when we have these crucial moments (DGB and Mena now, I'd say) they have almost nothing to say other than getting on the wagon?

Yes, that's my point

[skitter30]

skitter, can you talk about your JV townread please?

Not a hard townread, but i like their peta push / continuity in the thought process behind the push and their logic and reasoning for pushing there at daystart, it felt like it was somethijg that was bugging them overnight so they wanted to be sure to start there again today (and idk if scum is so single-focused on a push like that)

I

[skitter30]

where do you think I'm doing this? I am uncomfortable with you SRing me and that you entered the day pushing me, and with the fact that you've been linked (imo) with infinity

I'm still trying to treat you in good faith and work with you as much as possible, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to be 100% comfortable with you when I wouldn't necessarily expect you to have been SRing me to the point that I was the main person you wanted dead D2 and this is me trying to reconcile that

Well i guess for me like i ... just dont understand where the scumread on me is coming from, or why you think i'm linked to infinity so strongly, so it almost feels like you keep bringing up these scumreads/associatives that dont make sense to me out like thin air, and i dont know why you're thinking them

I dont think ut's super accurate to say that i wanted you dead day2

I started off voting you cuz i didnt like the dgb vote, and wanted to use that to sort you better. That early vote wasnt really intending to lead all the way to an elim, at least not just then without more sorting

I kinda clearly got spooked when your wagon got that high and you startes posting in a way that i think is +town for you

And when lilitj announced a semi-guilty i got back on, yes, but the more i think of it neither of yours' play matches what i expect there. Like lilith i still dont townread, and i'm not sold on you!scum, and i think your posting this morning is +town

I hope that explains my thought process ^
Can we both just like take a step back and try to sort each other again in earnest? Cuz if ur town i dont want to vote you out, and want to work with you

[skitter30]

Enjoy your class!

[skitter30]

And like, as I know what I’m gonna flip I can give instructions for what to do once I’m dead knowing I’ll be conftown and that other town (like uncrowned and S_S can lsiten to my reads and trust them as absolutely being in good faith and as trying to help town)

Like this super resonates with me as town ^

[skitter30]

or it could be skitter (who has, in other games, mentioned that I'm a relatively high priority NK for her when she's scum, although admittedly I'm not sure if I'm her top kill choice).

I'm not sure you are either

[skitter30]

Short version? Lied to a question, I called them out, they retracted and said the supposed "truth" this time thus they were lying by omission and their tone via the first answer leaves absolutely no hints at all of alterior motives even though they had one. Tone surrounding me calling them out literally is a dumpster fire compared to their posts before that and as soon as people starting backing them up their tone returned.

Mena this whole peta thread is +town imo

[skitter30]

The soft was pretty obvious, what I'm wondering is how he knew it was a JK/rb. I thought it was cop tbh

Huh

[skitter30]

I mean I don't think we can really blame JV for missing stuff given the circumstances. I think I'd be missing a bunch of shit too if I had the last couple of days they've had

yea I mean, that's a fair point but like JV is an intelligent player so the doc thing set me worrying more than the other bits

I think there's a fairly normal/benign explanation, and that we domt have to jump to them being scum trying to dumbtell

[skitter30]

VOTE: tgp

[skitter30]

I feel like scum dont usually pursue a tunnel from day-today like that, a night kinda serves as a reset and you need to be super committed to keep pushing that push all on your lonesome, when it keeps seeming like nobody else cares enough to join

I think scum arent that commited/focused and would have dropped it to pursue some other shiny object

[skitter30]

Because my first thought was: yay guilty !!! That's easy!!!

But the more i thought about it, the more i realized that the result doesnt really match my perception of the gamestate at all.

It's like: i dont really townread you, and on the other end i'm not sure i scumread mena either

So from both sides it doesnt match what you're selling, so i'm feeling cautious

[skitter30]

I also disagree with this. It’s almost easier to push someone no one else is paying attention to because you don’t actually have to follow through and interact with a wagon in a nuanced way, no? ie how I tried to push pp in jk9++

Idk in my experience i feel like i havent seen scum play it like that super often

[skitter30]

Like why dont i townread you yet ????

[skitter30]

Agree with uncrowned's analysis

And ya it was kinda easy to assume that lilith was insinuating a quasi guilty with her first vote

[skitter30]

My mind is almost going to - lilith is lying about who she jk'd. I know that doesnt make super much sense but i'm having trouble synthesizing her result with my reads

Mena i appreciate you responding, gonna read it closer/answer it later / might take till after work today

[skitter30]

What motivation does Lilith have to lie there?

If Mena flips green do we not just end up suspecting her?

As I'm typing this I realize it's not that simple but it's a risky play nonetheless

Idk

I'm basically i dont townread lilith
I dont scumread mena
Her result matches up on neither side (wrt the credibility of the persok giving it, and scumminess of the person being guiltied)
I cant explain the motivation but like it'a not completely adding up for me

[skitter30]

actually skitter seems to not be considering at all that you could have been the NK target

Nah it's a semi-viable universe, but still doesnt fit with my reads entirely:

Like my thought process was: what if mena was the nk last night -> what did lilith do last night -> if she's town she blocked the nk -> if she's scum wtf is she claiming even

If town and she blocked the nk -> like idk it just doesnf *fit* with the gamestate i'm seeing

Like Idk who tries to nk him here. I know it wasnt me. If you're scum i think you try for me over mena. Idk if ss goes out of his way to do that. And if scum doesnt have one of those people listed just above on the team, mena is a *super random* nk

This is kinda my thought process ^

[skitter30]

Like why dont i townread you yet ????

I have plenty of theories, but I'm not actually sure you want to hear them

Kinda curious to hear them

Bleh more i wanna say, tonight tho ^

[skitter30]

is it not possible or even plausible that scum targeted me for the NK as a generally fairly strong player who's annoying to try and kill via dayplay, and who they thought was unlikely to have the doctor on them (in the case that scum are aware there's a doctor in play)?

Eh i guess fair enough. Not sure how much the rest of the pl would think that way tho ^

[skitter30]

I really want to resolve my lilith read

[skitter30]

Maybe i'm like horrifically tunneled but i'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around town!lilith

[skitter30]

Mena at this point it's incredibly obvious that's a fakeclam: you literaly never protested losing a result by being rb'd, ans didnt start the day wondering what happened to your result

Also i forgot that was a thing

Also lilith did u take his fakeclaim into account when you were deciding to target him?

[skitter30]

Your play already belied it's fake, there's no point pretending, i dont you suddenly acting the part again amd me believing it is what's going to tip the scale on you being likely to be nk'd or not

[skitter30]

Maybe i'm like horrifically tunneled but i'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around town!lilith

Does anybody townread lilith on play ???

[skitter30]

she's got a strong enough role that it doesn't make sense to kill her early anyway-- if she's scum and we manage to kill both of her partners, then she basically autoloses, and she can't really use her role in a scummy way (i.e. blocking town PR's) since she's claimed it

Eh fair, this assauges my concerns a bit

I dont think i can vote out mena rn on the basis of the jk tho

[skitter30]

The point is not “automatically assume a dangerous player will be the NK”


The point is “why does it seem unreasonable to you that /other players here/ might consider me a significant enough threat to get rid of me at night, even if you would not do so because you think that kill would be best used on PR hunting?”

Tbf in the gamestate/pl at the end of day1, i also dont think it's super likely

[skitter30]

Lol

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

(1) I was, and still am, bothered by your assertion that my approach to DGB/infinity yesterday is/was scum!indicative for me. You know me as a player, you have, I think, one of the highest rates of games played with me of all users (along with like, ducky, icon, datisi etc) and particularly you've played against my scumgame more than once. I would expect you to know that I am as both alignments, but especially as scum, very self-aware (to the point I get SR for it as town on a semi-regular basis). Therefore, I'd expect you to know that I would know that moving off infinity onto DGB isn't like a "good look" for me when it comes to surface-level optics. Moving from one town (A) -> a different town (B) when you've been expressing a strong SR on (A) and talking about (B) being a compromise won't win you a lot of friends.

But scum!me would be aware of that, and as there was no pressing need for scum!me to eliminate DGB there, there was no reason for scum!me to look bad (even if only when it comes to surface-level optics, because I think the argument I'm making here is quite sound) when I could have been looking good by sticking to me infinity!scum read. It also would have set me up to push infinity easily today if I were scum.

If you were arguing that I could be scum who moved off to make the argument I'm making in the above paragraph (i.e. mena doing something that looks bad for him as scum isn't really clearing and he did vote to elim town in the end) that would be an argument I can see from town!you. What I'm really having issue with is that you think scum!me chooses to look bad at an optical level to arbitrarily eliminate one town over a different town.

Especially when we've explicitly talked about how we both plan, from D1, what the route to the win is and you know I'm very calculated in that way as scum. Why do something that hurts me for no gain? I don't get why you think scum!me would do that.

(2) I don't think you're linked "so strongly" although I talked about it a fair amount on D1 so I see why you had that impression. I think there is maybe some sort of relation between the two of you, but at this point I'm not sure what. Yesterday, I was thinking it was you covering for a buddy. Today, I'm thinking it may have been you white knighting for cred. I'm not sure. I think there's something there in you kind of providing some cover for him when other people brought him up, but I'm not sure exactly what that implies for your alignment. I'd just like it considered if/when I die.

(3) It sure felt like it, seeing as you entered voting for me, and then encouraged voting for me, and now I've been sitting at G-1 for a while with the only CW sort of starting to take off now. I'm aware of the unvotes. But like I said I'm also a little concerned that scum!you may have decided that if I was speedwagoned to death that you didn't want me to die pointing the finger at you. Which would mean that you're moving off me to now to damage control of our relationship in the bounds of this game/possibly to justify eliminating elsewhere today to bring me along later as GYLO bait or something.

(4) I would also like this, but as mentioned I have some reservations about your play (related to the reason you gave for SRing me, and what I think scum!you might do if you knew that someone was about to die while loudly calling you scum), and that's not something I can automatically quash or forget about. I will try to do my best to work with you, but I don't want to set town up to fail by incorrectly TRing you just because you backed off me a little and asked to work with me only for you to then flip on me later/NK me after I TR you and then use my (presumably in that circumstance incorrect) TRs to push misguillos on my PoE until you get to a win.

@ mena i said i would circle back to the above:
1. i guess i don't view scum!you as being that hyper-aware of optics. like you view that you are as scum, but i'm not sure i ever particularly associated 'scum!mena' with 'aware of optics' in the way you seem to think i have
like i just don't have a super strong expectation from scum!you in that arena either way

2. fair enough. i think you're seeing things that aren't there, tho. or, at least, you're making a thing out of me/infinity when similar associatives exist between me and other players (jv as i pointed out earlier) so this whole associtive that you're harping on is just kinda like ???? to me cuz i don't get why you're focusing on it

3. then you're ascribing to me more of a 'skitter wants mena to die' motivation than actually, like, exists. i haven't really been trying to get you limmed at any point in the day, and i've been markedly trying to avoid the wagon being at e-1, etc. closest is maybe when lilith explicitly outed the jk but i got skittish off of that fairly fast, and since then (i.e. since you started posting/reacting) p clearly have backed off

also if scum!me decides i want/need you limmed i'm gonna go all in, i'm not gonna be circuitious about it and keep hopping on and off as the whim takes me. i also wouldn't be *that* worried about your dying reads - who listens to those anyways? esp. of people limmed?
i think your assessment of what i'd do here is faulty ^

4. well i don't want to lim you anymore, and i'm kinda thinking you're town. if it takes u a while to see that, that's ok
i think i was just getting annoyed that you kept saying me/infinity when i ... don't get why you're making a thing of that so it's like your'e calling me scum for lol-???? reasons

[skitter30]

actually skitter seems to not be considering at all that you could have been the NK target

To be fair here I would never consider that either.

What I'm trying to say is that her mind went straight to "lilith must be lying" instead of like, the other 3 scenarios that mena and I were discussing which are imo more plausible (I mean obviously from my perspective I'm telling the truth, but I don't know why the second most likely scenario to skitter is that I'm lying?)

idk how else to explain it but the game literally doens't 'fit' or 'make sense' to me as town!lilith stopping scum!mena from makign the kill, and it's only a little better for town!lilith preventing a block on town!mena getting nk'd

like the game just doens't make super much sense to me in those scenarios

[skitter30]

there is nothing to say
my vote on dgb was because flipping a claimed pgo is protown not only because pgo is negative util but because it removes the possibility of a scum 1-shot vig being in the game so it didn't matter if dgb was a star player because mechanically their slot was proscum even if their claim was true (which it was)

my vote on mena is also mechanical because of lillith's claim

on the off chance mena flips town infinity is probably scum

i was voting hoopla because she is incredibly unlikely to be a PR and therefore a much better lim than anyone in the top half of the draft i have cased her ya know

this is awful, no offense

[skitter30]

fair enough. i feel p good with my read on u rn, so i'm fine moving the convo elsewhere. any slots in particular u want me to talk about?

but if u want me to answer the long post more, at length, i can, but later tonight

pedit give me a sec

[skitter30]

Who’s solving/doing things

Me, skitt, S_S, uncrowned, dave, JV

Kinda the penguin, kinda lili

Who is not:

Hoopla, TGP, infinity, dunn

Kinda peta

does solving/doing things equate to town? or just mean you're not interested in them today?

[skitter30]

what do you think of my broad pools skitt

what do you think of infinity today

infinity today isn't as good as yesterday, but i wouldn't call them scum
they had a few +++++town posts yesterday so i'm not super interested there yet

[skitter30]

i'm kinda here:

town: ss, uncrowned, penguin
weaker town: mena, infinity, jv
nulltown: dave
nullscum: hoopla, peta
weaker scum: dunn
scum: lilith, tgp

probably not limming today for mechanical reasons: lilith

note: peta is like at first glance kinda scummy but i kinda gut think he's town anyways. idk where to put him on the chart exactly, i settled on nullscum but it doesn't like holistically capture my thoughts.

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

jackson wagon was hot and new
lillith wagon was an rvs wagon based essentially solely on the fact that they were first in the PL

penguin you can call my takes bad but calling me scum for them is a terrible take yourself

penguin you can call my takes bad but calling me scum for them is a terrible take yourself

You aren't scum for having bad takes, but penguin is?

and i kind of expect town!you to have good takes so the fact that you're attacking me (mislim bait) for pushing your interactions, especially your wagon hopping and hoopla interactions, feels really off to me

I think you saw 423 before you posted 424, and wanted to explain. But you pretended like you didn't see my response so it didn't look like you got caught.

Aside from that, this is just a scummy sequence of posts. I find scum more likely to say "I may be bad but not scum" since people don't like to admit they're wrong. "feels a little off" is way down in confidence from where you were just a second ago too.

tgp still probably town imo

don't agree with infinty 433 (the posts were within a minute of each other), but that is an argument that probably comes from town

It's 2 minutes, maybe I'm reading too much into this? Didn't like the posts anyway so

Mostly tone and the interaction with JV came off as extremely townie to me.

Interesting, I feel like scum can fake all-out aggression like that

most of my townread comes from these posts. in real time / in context they were absurdly town

[skitter30]

why is Dave in the weaker tier? I thought you were quite confident on him after his reaction yesterday at EoD

also, JV I'm kinda surprised isn't higher, I thought you were quite confident there

also, I don't disagree on the penguin, but what's making you put him up at around the top tier? same for S_S?

i dont' think i was townreading him *that* strongly at eod yesterday
(and if i was i don't remember it)
and rn the read doesn't feel that strong

the top tier is people i'm super super super confident are town. jv is like probably town but the read isn't that strong. like you're on the same level

penguin i can sometimes just kinda tell he's town and i think he's town here, and i like that he came around to scum!tgp before it was popular

ss is also kinda behaving in a way that i feel is congruent with town!him

i know that these might not be super helpful but i'm a little more busy these days and not reading the thread quite *as carefully* so a lot of my reads boil down to like ~vibes~ that i get from reading a lot of posts kinda quickly that i don't necessarily have all the concrete details to back up without going back and rereading like nice chunks of the thread

[skitter30]

skitter talk to me about s_s and penguin? I also had them as town but I was gonna re-evaluate because I can't remember super specific reasons why

see above. i can try harder if needed but that's the best i can explain without re-isoing rn

[skitter30]

in real time / in context they were absurdly town

okay, why

he came up with that explanation /follow up *really* fast (in like a handful of minutes), and it's a thought process that i think is kinda unlikely to come from scum

similarly partly why i think you're town now is that you're writing with conviction and clear follow-through on posts in very quick real time (like the wall you just responded to minutes after i posted mine)

skitter, assuming I'm town, how much scum do you think opportunistically hops onto me for the perceived easy/fast elim

a whole bunch

[skitter30]

it just makes no sense to me that you would be nked n1 over players who would be nked n1 for their strength AND are far more likely to be prs.

you're at once arguing that he's god-tier and also arguing that other people woudl be n1'd before him because they're stronger than him?

[skitter30]

Mena/skitter interactions super feel like T/T, there's an attitude of "I'm paranoid of you but hope you're town and want to work with you"

yeah tbh that's also why i think he's +town, last time we did this (me-town, him-scum), the argument just never ended, because he kept forcing it and dragging it along, even tho i tried to disengage a whole bunch of times

[skitter30]

does tgp have a lot of experience with scum!you mena?

[skitter30]

*best bird, my deepest and most abject apologies

[skitter30]

the problem is like
you're so good of a scumplayer i don't trust my own reads over the strong mechanical evidence that you're scum

@tgp where does this impression of him come from ????

[skitter30]

i like that he came around to scum!tgp before it was popular

How much does that count for if TGP isn't scum?

fair enough, but i'm having a hard time seeing town!tpg rn
if tpg isn't scum it's a null point wrt the bird, and has no bearing on my read of him

[skitter30]

last time we did this (me-town, him-scum)

wait shit, when was this

I thought this said when we were both town at first glance and was thinking you meant the newbie game

are you talking about JK9++

no i'm talking about the newbie where i was town and you were scum and we argued nonstop and i kept trying to disengage because we were taking over the newbie ...

i'll the number if you want

[skitter30]

I'm super easy to read if you are good at reading me.

i think (?) i fall into this category

[skitter30]

last time we did this (me-town, him-scum)

wait shit, when was this

I thought this said when we were both town at first glance and was thinking you meant the newbie game

are you talking about JK9++

no i'm talking about the newbie where i was town and you were scum and we argued nonstop and i kept trying to disengage because we were taking over the newbie ...

i'll the number if you want

I was town that game wasn't I?

yeah i actually jsut checked
lol nm

lol

[skitter30]

I'm super easy to read if you are good at reading me.

i think (?) i fall into this category

nah, sorry

?

[skitter30]

what do you think about peta if TGP!scum?

and can you explain the "a whole bunch" thing? why do you think a lot of them would jump on for the quick/easy elim?

i don't raelly have any thoughts/associatives between tgp/peta. i don't think that scum!tgp affects my read there

and ... why wouldn't they? esp. after a quasi-guilty? easy lim to hop on, loads of momentum, easy to slip on (cough tgp cough)

[skitter30]

She was saying that she's good at reading me.

ding ding ding

that was funny tho

[skitter30]

lmao I just had this moment of doubt when I thought

I was so hard into the "pretend I'm town" headspace as scum

that I actually had changed my memory of that game

wait what? what does this mean

it doesn't change my read here

[skitter30]

the problem is like
you're so good of a scumplayer i don't trust my own reads over the strong mechanical evidence that you're scum

@tgp where does this impression of him come from ????

[skitter30]

this is exactly the sort of thing where I personally wouldn't want to hop on as scum bc I think it would look bad after I flipped. so I guess I'm trying to see why you think scum would get enough of a free pass for the mechanical thing (especially as that wasn't made explicit until I already had like 5 votes I think?) to risk the exposure after my town flip. does that make sense? and then it's slightly troubling to me that with my current reads, if they're right, it would mean basically the entire scumteam decided to jump on me

i don't think that most scum are nearly as cognizant of optics as you think they are
i think average scum just runs with something that looks bad that htey think they can push

[skitter30]

skitter skitter skitter
would you like to join me on infinity it's a much better wagon

no? what makes you think i would

[skitter30]

skitter skitter skitter
would you like to join me on infinity it's a much better wagon

no? what makes you think i would

their posting yesterday was bad
their posting today isn't great
my wagon is terrible i promise i'm just lhf

ok but i'm scumrading you
townreading infinity

so why am i joining you on infinity exactly?

ok, why are you lhf over scum?
i'm willing to listen to why you're town ^

[skitter30]

and my posting whatever you think of my reads and my reasoning make a lot more sense from someone who's uninformed than someone who knows the alignment of every player in the game

i'm not sure this is obvious or apparent in your posting

[skitter30]

If the entire plan was to make a bunch of opportunistic votes and use "I'm LHF" as a defense, why does 2104 sound so nervous? It doesn't add up for me

2104 doesn't sound nervous, and idk if that's what their plan was, so much as they were just winging it

[skitter30]

stop letting skitter and mena run the show and elim him already, it's obvious that we need to do so

uh huh

[skitter30]

Not really. I like to focus on a few slots at a time because I can get overwhelmed if I try to focus on everyone at once (this is one of the realizations that made me feel better about hoopla fwiw). But 3-4 slots for directed attention is a good sweetspot imo.

also a townpost imo ^

[skitter30]

which people

[skitter30]

what do u wanna talk about?

[skitter30]

I think TGP may have scumtold a couple times in the last 2-3 pages of my catchup. It involves the subtle difference between "x is something I'd do as town" and "y is something I'd do instead of x as scum" where y is the thing that wasn't done.

can you reword this or say it another way?

[skitter30]

it's a little hard for me to parse the way it's written

[skitter30]

i don't mind it too much tbh

[skitter30]

dgb was essentially a guaranteed lim, and if i were scum i would just hard defend her instead of being on that lim

This thing, which is essentially saying:

town would be on this DGB lim, scum would hard defend her but that's not what I (TGP) did
which is the pattern "town would do x where scum would do y but I did x" and in a town mindset you don't put it that way.

Pretty sure there is at least one other post where the same type of logic is used.

oh yeah i kinda agree with you, i've noticed a personal tendency to use that sort of logic as scum sometimes ^

pedit don't vote the bird. i get that he's winding you up a bit but i think you're both town tbh

[skitter30]

the same goes for skitter too. can we please try for a better balance of voices?

I will try to be better abt this, apologies

[skitter30]

flavor leaf won the don corleone scummy and is probably the best scumplayer on this site today.

Man my ego

[skitter30]

Skitter, who would you have targeted for a kill last night if you were scum?

Honestly i dont know
I think scum!me feels fairly good/confident abt the gamestate eod yesterday, and there isnt any name that strategically jumps out at me (top pf draft is lilith who i'm pushing, dunn who is obviously scummy, and me), and nobody who particularly scumread me either other than like you and idk if i kill u there

Probably decide based on who the teammates are and their positioning in the gamestate, but i obv cant extrapolate that here

[skitter30]

flavor leaf won the don corleone scummy and is probably the best scumplayer on this site today.

Man my ego

pff i bet they give that award to just about anyone

[skitter30]

insisted forcefully enough that she would have taken multitasking that i believed it

meh, I think it's well within scum-skitter's wheelhouse to pick one thing and strongly argue why she would have picked the other, especially if she did the pick specifically for WIFOM.

tbf this is true
(except that i usually wouldn't make a pure wifom play like that)

[skitter30]

what i know about pine is i got him eliminated once long ago when i was scum and he was obvtown. also had a kinda trash scumgame but that was also forever ago so i assume no longer true

Pine now has a notoriously good scumgame and is actively more enthusiastic when rolling scum (although he can strategically lurk). It’s ++town for me that he let himself be replaced instead of hitting the minimum activity requirements, which is something he could definitely have done if he was scum and lurking intentionally instead of bc he just wasn’t engaged as town

also now that lilith's game is over, i feel the need to point out that this is no longer accurate meta %
he basically played *exactly* like he did in this game and ultimately got repped out for inactivity

[skitter30]

also now that lilith's game is over, i feel the need to point out that this is no longer accurate meta %
he basically played *exactly* like he did in this game and ultimately got repped out for inactivity

oh sorry i realize i didn't explicitly say it: pine was scum in that game, to make it clear

[skitter30]

[skitter30]

dunn is being scummy too ^

[skitter30]

They're barely incorporating any of peta's play since the tunnel started, which is very unusual for town tunnels.

i ... actually think this is fairly typical for town tunnels

[skitter30]

are we waiting for something in particular?

[skitter30]

we're waiting for you to unvote because i'm town and join me on infinity

or hoopla

i'm still not sure i scumread either of those people
and happy cakeday

[skitter30]

:raises hand:

[skitter30]

Nah i think they should answer that

[skitter30]

What information are we keeping from scum if they dont claim it

[skitter30]

@hoopla/infinity/tgp/peta why is dunnstral scummy?

okay yeah

i'm confident in hoopla being scum

@tgp why are you okay with being on the same wagon as your most confident scumread and not on the wagon of, say, your most confident scumread?

Lilith is still scum ^

[skitter30]

And dunn is being scummy too

[skitter30]

I really wish i could have pushed lilith more yesterday

[skitter30]

Well maybe we'll actually be allowed to push people near the top of the list instead of giving them a pass by virtue of being at the top of the list

[skitter30]

A) idk who you're referring to in the first paragraph
B) i'm kinda wondering why it took you so long to push back on me, and was expecting that to happen like weeks ago
C) *multiple* people have informed me that they're not interested today cuz of your position in the draft/your role. I cant make these things happen on my own, i can just loudly repeat what i think

[skitter30]

VOTE: lilith

Will be around later tonight

[skitter30]

@skitter why are you still alive?

i have no idea
i have some speculatation but i don't wnat to say atm

[skitter30]

lilith, you should claim your JK

^^^

[skitter30]

dunn's hammer was awful but i am not planning on unvoting lilith until/unless she convinces me she is town
it's been two days, she's had ample time to town it up
it hasn't happened it, and i think this is ridiculously ++++ scum for her, and i'm at the point where i'm willing to be stubborn over this

[skitter30]

@uncrowned: as a headsup, you're townie enough that you don't really need to play around the possibility of being limmed :p

[skitter30]

also mena, at this point i think a more important question is why isn't lilith dead

[skitter30]

yeah exactly

[skitter30]

Yeah lilith is town and also I was neighborized by somebody last night so can confirm that role is in the game

y is lilith town?

[skitter30]

i feel like dunn and lilith being scum together is not *super* likely
not super confident dunn is scum, despite the hammer

[skitter30]

, i think it makes SS, infinity and maybe skitter less likely to be scum.

Why infinity

[skitter30]

I am legitimately really, really sorry that I haven't been around. The reason I got super sick/thought I had COVID in the first place is that I've been working crazy hours for the past couple months and burnt myself out. I keep being told that it's about to end so I thought I'd have more time to actually pay attention to this game, and then it doesn't work out that way and I'm still working crazy hours.

Oh no i hope you're doing ok

[skitter30]

why would scum kill me given the way the wind is blowing? leave whichever of skitter/mena is town alive and they go after me anyway, there's no need to waste a night kill on me.

I guess that 's like ~possible~ but the simplest explanation for everything in my mind ia that you're just scum

And imo infinity is a ~weird~ jk option at best
Did u think he would do the nk?

[skitter30]

I'm not super townreading the bird anymore ^

[skitter30]

I mean i imagine that lilith's claim and alignment has a fair amount to do with that, and is not something i can control


However you've been starting to fall into patterns i associate with scum!you

[skitter30]

We're kinda at the point where the nk's and claimed night actions are bizarre, and i think it bears digging into


Like the nk's coupled with lilith's choices for her actions are not super easily explained if she's town, but if she's scum and has to coordinate those, things start making a bit more sense

[skitter30]

kill indicates scum r not concerned with pr hunting so just start chopping from the top down imo

Right, and that would point to them having reasonably strong prs, right?

[skitter30]

how so? hoopa had an explanation that makes sense to me.

Which explanation?

Also, isnt correct jk usage while there's more than one scum alive to try to protect, and use it as a rb once we're down to one scum?

[skitter30]

However you've been starting to fall into patterns i associate with scum!you

Is this more nuanced than "being useless"?

A little more nuanced, but yeah ultimately kinda boils down to this, and that he's less useless/more opinionated/pushy wrt his reads as town
I had a really good post describing the difference in lilith's game th at i'll pull up in a bit

[skitter30]

I have a question: if lili is scum, and JK, why does she claim it yesterday and specifically why does she claim it on me?

No idea beyond thinking she can get you limmed, otherwise idk
Idk why she does that as town either so

[skitter30]

You're assuming optimal play ok the jk which i don't think is a good assumption

I mean fair but i think it's also a reasonable assumption ?

Aside she was also p vocal in defending why scum might pick informed over multitasking, which i think is +scum

Also dis anyone ger neighborized n1?

Also i dont think ss is scum particularly

[skitter30]

Ok but her play literally looks like scum!lilith and i'm having a very hard getting over that

I gotta pretend to do my job now but we can talk more about y u think i'm scum later

[skitter30]

lili
Infinity
Best Bird, hoopla
NM
Dave
Skitt, peta, S_S, dunn

Oh, and I voted lili bc I wanted to see if scum would hop on the CW to dunn or not

I dont follow how this transition happened from, say, last night

[skitter30]

And given lili being locktown, I think your play around her looks incredibly like scum angling to misguillo a PR

esp when added to my inquietudes re: your play early yesterday around my slot

And that there is still a reasonable chance that the N1 kill could have been on me, in which case I think you’re arguably the most likely person to make that kill given my D1 reads

Ok but i'm literally not in a place where i can view the game as lilith locktown rn. It is possible i am unreasonably tunneled but i just dont see it

And idk if i kill you as scum n1 tbh
I ger why you think i would be most likely to make that kill, but a) it's not a given you were the nk b) from my pov i know it's a lot less likely fo scum!me to have made that kill than you think it is

I have some ~thoughts~ also that i wanna say eventually that is like relevant but gonna wait a bit probably

[skitter30]

Also, uh, when *you* are a UTR and you’re not dead by D3 I think that’s justification in itself to be suspicious

It’s not like you’ve been under threat of being the guillotine in a serious way at any point this game

And yet scum are happy to leave you alive? Mmmm

I mean obviously lilith's role/alignment has a lot to do with it - i'm a lot more likely to be docced/jk'd than uncrowned is

[skitter30]

Also i think ss is town so i dont like that much either

[skitter30]

i feel like it's due diligence to confirm the neighborizer exists
(i doubt dunn is lying, but still)

i'm not asking who the neighborizer is, i'm asking *if someone else* got neighborized
i'm not super worried about the rolecop tbh, it's a suboptimal pick for scum in the way that choosing informed is

it's like super suboptimal if they already have informed

[skitter30]

any reasonably competant scum team should be able to sort out just about where most of the pr's are already with the claims and flips we've had + where they are in the draft

they won't have the whole picture, but they'll have been able to narrow it down already and i'm not super into hiding information just cuz

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Subject: OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y : SCUMZ PT

ruru - dead jk

Skygazer - neighborizer; neighborized ausuka n1
OkaPoka - ???
Vulcan logician - ??? gut says vengeful

Invisibility - goon, failed to get jk

AP - 1spgo

skitter30 - 1swatcher
Ausuka - vt, failed to get vig
brassherald - ??? - gut says cop maybe - also townreads me
Enigma - knows 100% that ap was lying - doc, has to be. also townreads me so i don't want to murderize them yet
BuJaber - ???
Sando - ???
ceejayvinoya - vt, failed to get vengeful
ofrhz - ??? - townreads me

Night 3 Vigilante OR Vengeful - somewhere in the playerlist - probably vulcan?
1-Shot Vigilante OR 1-Shot PGO (active) - ap, dead
Cop OR 1-Shot Redirector - unknown, gut says oka or cardi maybe
1-Shot Commuter OR 1-Shot Watcher - me
Doctor OR Roleblocker - enigma; i don't see any other roles that could know 100% ap was lying without visiting him
Universal Backup OR Role Cop - unknown
Neighborizer OR Fruit Vendor - sky
Jailkeeper OR Tracker - ruru

so oka, vulcan, cardi, enigma, bujaber, sando, ofrhz have max 4 prs, of which i suspect enigma has doc and vulcan has vengeful/n3 vig

which means: cardi, oka, bujaber, sando, ofrhz have max 2prs, can only be: cop/1sredirector, and universal backup/role cop

ofrhz/sando/bujaber prob vt tbh

oka i guess i murderize? either oka or ausuka. i think i have to pretend to use my shot tonight on sky but idk if enigma will have visted her so .... also he's a doc. i don't want to work around him tho

Subject: Open 769 Mafia Chat

ok time to do a little analysis of the setup

roles

: (the ones crossed out are the ones we know are in play)

Night 2 Vigilante OR Vengeful

- wooper, n2 vig

Perfectionist Vigilante OR 1-shot PGO

- flub, pgo

Sane Cop OR 2-shot Redirector

~ rb, cop

Conditional-Commuter OR 1-shot Watcher

~ unknown

Doctor OR Roleblocker

- unknown, can't be flub

Universal Backup w/ 1-shot override OR Role Cop

~ unknown - aaron

Neighborizer OR Gunsmith

~ me

Jailkeeper OR Tracker

~ you
1-shot Governor OR 5-ability JOAT

doc/rb has to be in play since ss didn't die n2

players

:
Flubbernugget ~ 1s pgo
rb ~ sane cop, dead
Sirfetchd ~ jk
Something_Smart ~ powered, unknown
AaronFrost ~ backup cop
Xayah ~ vt, dead
skitter30 ~ neighborizer
Kerset
PMysterious
wooper ~ n2 vig
Sujimichi
Luca Blight ~ vt
nomnomnom ~ dead
Billy Pilgrim ~ goon, dead

it's really not that hard to get a fairly reasonable sense of the pr spread with like two claims and a flip or two + knowing where the scumz are

[skitter30]

rolecop is a really silly role for scum to take with informed + the knowledge inherent in knowing what scum picked and where they are on the draft

and stuff, i guess

[skitter30]

would try to get the doc/rb slot for either me or dunn (functionally ti doesn't matter), so it would dependon which of us thinks we would be more likely to be able to utilize it properly
and the other would be the 1s vig/pgo

thinking about it more probably doc/rb for me and 1s vig/pgo for dunn cuz i think he can explain away a 'bad' shot better than i can

jk tends to go first, so i wouldn't try for it

jv's slot is probably a wash so i'd let it be kinda up to them, if they want to go for somethinig they think is fun and might not get i'd be fine with that

[skitter30]

why did you include jv/nm's slot

[skitter30]

(tbf historically i tend ot make dumb picks as scum in this setup, and then get burned cuz it's not multitasking, have to claim vt, etc)

[skitter30]

i'm just kinda curious why u came up with that theoretical scumteam pairing

[skitter30]

if lilith is town i really want someone to talk me out of my tunnel :/

[skitter30]

i probably still try for doc/rb as jk is probably taken
i don't want to take 1s vig because town!me never takes it because i don't like being vig
and n3 vig i need to explain why town!me thought during the draft i'd even be alive n3

anyone in the doubles+ is a wash, so same answer

idk what i would want peta to take, it would depend on if we took multitasking, and what peta wants to play, etc. i've never played with him before so i don't have enough context to answer this

i'm not gonna answer the 'why is this the scumteam' bit because that's silly

[skitter30]

and honestly what i'd try for would at least be somewhat influenced by what the other scumteam members want
so i don't want to say that's definitive ^
it's hard to answer that in a vaccuum

[skitter30]

it's a fun thought experiment

why are you pursuing an absurd line of questioning and what are you getting otu of it

[skitter30]

i am sussing you out.

generally speaking i find earnestness in the face of absurdity suspicious, because it shows you're more interested in placating me despite having no real reason to.

you're confusing ~enjoying the thought experiment~ with ~ attempting to placating you~

i really don't think you can come to the conclusion that i'm attempting to placate you by virtue of the fact that i'm willing to answer you're questions unless you assume that i'm an inherently like ~prickly~ and ~uncooperative~ player, which i think we can safely say i'm not.

[skitter30]

did u get anything out of it ?

[skitter30]

skitter- She's been pretty obvtown honestly, she's been really transparent and the interaction with mena during d2 felt really T/T to me. I think she could be alive cause of a doc but we'll have to find out.

Such as this, for instance

eh. for infinity it's fine because he hasn't played with me before

[skitter30]

i don't want to vote out dunn rn really

[skitter30]

i don't want to vote out dunn rn really

That’s unfortunate, I do

ok then
i want my protest to my duly noted

[skitter30]

Noted, yet also something that I think makes you infinitely more suspicious if dunn is town

i mean what do you want from me, i'm telling you i don't think he's flipping scum here
it's like putting me in a lose-lose position where no matter what he flips you're gonna find some reason to come after me

[skitter30]

I don’t really understand how you’re looking at dunn and lili together and defending dunn while pushing lili

i don't htink they're scum together and i there's some subset of universes where they're tvt
and if there's one scum there it's probably lilith

[skitter30]

Tbf i would consider killing NM today just because that’s most always a solid move if he’s not gonna play

i wouldnt' really object to that

[skitter30]

can i just go with, like, ~vibes~

i really don't know how to resolve my lilith problem, and it's like the key to the whole game for me rn

[skitter30]

bleh maybe i'm just horifically tunneled

idk

i have to start, like, thinking of the bottom of the list again
i probably vote like bird or dave next i think

[skitter30]

if lilith is in fact scum and i let people talk me out of voting her out like four times i am going to be doing a massive 'i told you so' thing in post

[skitter30]

she isn't town on play. that's more important to me than the mechanics stuff and i literally can't just ignore it or drop it. that's not how my brain works.

[skitter30]

like remember how in micc's micro i spent forever on tw despite everyone trying to talk me out of it and then i got burned because i listened to like nebulous mechanics arguments? that's literally how i feel rn
(incidentally remember how i had a *strong* townread on lilith within like moments of her taking over your slot ???)

[skitter30]

Why bird or Dave?

I don’t think bird is that bad still

Dave I have soured on a little and want more from

bird is starting to look more like his scum self
dave i never townread

i have a reason to townread most other people (even like nm's slot, although i wouldn't mind policying there)

[skitter30]

But there are compelling-ish explanations for her being out of touch with the game based on IRL reasons? Which could give the game the appearance of her scumgame even while town

I mean, if you can come up with a compelling theory on why scum!lil claims her JK shot there and like that then I will consider it, because I don’t love her okay either, but lacking that explanation it seems much better for EV to assume she’s town

right, but it's also been like three or four weeks now, and she looks *exactly* like jk9++ ...
i think it's as simple as she thought she could get the miselim on you
i dont' get why town!lilith just backs down there either ?

[skitter30]

like remember how in micc's micro i spent forever on tw despite everyone trying to talk me out of it and then i got burned because i listened to like nebulous mechanics arguments? that's literally how i feel rn
(incidentally remember how i had a *strong* townread on lilith within like moments of her taking over your slot ???)

Y-es but also that game was just a clusterfcuk generally (and if we’d just done things my way we would have saved like, hours and hours of peoples time for a result that at the least wouldn’t have been *worse* but I digress)

Also, surely that TR was helped by my making that slot p obvtown by the point that she arrived? And also there were no compelling mechanical reasons to TR the duck but there are for lili

'what are the odds that scum!duck happens to claim a role that just so perfectly fits in with this setup?'
i don't remember the specific mechanical argument but it basically boiled down to the improbability of scum choosing to make some action over another or something, right? and since he picked the improbable one he must be town? or claimed soemthing improbable? i don't remember i have to look it up
or that he needed to be town for the setup to make sense or something.

but it was nebulous and we all went for it anyways ...

also, the tr came from lilith independantly too

[skitter30]

I’m mildly concerned that you’re still TRing S_S at this point too

he's probably my strongest townread

[skitter30]

i think it's as simple as she thought she could get the miselim on you
i dont' get why town!lilith just backs down there either ?

But like, was I that much of a threat that she needed to out to get me? And if I was, why back off after?

Not to mention, I was gaining steam as a wagon anyway, I’m not sure scum!lili feels she needs to try to push me mechanically there as opposed to just pushing me for X, Y, or Z reason about my play

honestly i have no idea, it doens't make sense to claim as town there either. like you can rewrite that sentence as: i'm not sure town!lili feels she needs to try to push me mechanically there as opposed to just pushing me for x y or z reasons about my play. ]
and it makes just as much sense to say that about town!lilith

like it doesn't make sense either way so my brain is basically discounting it as a usable piece of evidence because it doesn't make sense, and is focusing on her play, which doesn't look like town

[skitter30]

like it's a baffling thing to do, as both alignments. i don't get why it's so much more likely to come from baffling!town than baffling!scum because town!her has no reason to claim there either

[skitter30]

honestly i don't remember the details but i'm getting like miccro vibes about the gamestate because all the pieces aren't fitting together

[skitter30]

You know what would be incredibly funny, incidentally? Would be if S_S and lili are scum together again and we’re both town only we’ve reversed in terms of which one we think is scum from JK9++

the thought did cross my mind, but i'm p sure ss is town here

[skitter30]

I’m mildly concerned that you’re still TRing S_S at this point too

he's probably my strongest townread

Why? This is very much in line with his scumgame and he’s been getting no pressure for bad reasons

ALSO this reminds me, do you think people are TRing you for good reasons?

eh he's like more ~obstinate~ (?) than his scumgame i think
idk what the right word is but i don't think this is it

idk how to explain ti better

[skitter30]

i dont' have any particular complaints about how people are reading me rn

[skitter30]

like it's a baffling thing to do, as both alignments. i don't get why it's so much more likely to come from baffling!town than baffling!scum because town!her has no reason to claim there either

But she totally does! If town!her thinks she’s blocked the killer and that I might wriggle my way out of dying by just, idk, power scumming I guess? Then it makes perfect sense for town lil to feel she needs to reveal that info to make sure I don’t get away

didn't you start wriggling out of it *after* she claimed? like when you get to l-1 (which happened after she claimed) that's when you started towning it up?

[skitter30]

Manlque was fairly obviously blocked, stopping the kill don't out town pr, elim through claim:

VOTE: Menalque

Wut

And what do u mean about me?

i forgot about this. wtf is this

[skitter30]

vote count 2.04

Menalque (5)

: lilith2013, Infinity 324, JacksonVirgo, Hoopla, Dunnstral

TheGoldenParadox (3)

: Uncrowned, PenguinPower, skitter30

skitter30 (1)

: Menalque

Hoopla (1)

: TheGoldenParadox

JacksonVirgo (1)

: petapan

Not voting

: davesaz, Something_Smart

Deadline: (expired on 2020-11-13 13:00:00)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

mod notes

:
- skitter30 v/la fridays & saturdays
- quack

I’m pretty sure Dunn just picked up my attempt to soft, you can stop questioning him. I jailkept mena last night.

this was a spontaneous claim, while you were at l-2, and while you were the only sizeable wagon.

you started towning it up in 1648, after several more people gave support for voting you after the claim

there's no reason to claim here as either alignment, so there's no reason to call it townie
it's a bizarre thing to do and is equally bizarre from either alignment

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

@ work atm i'll Do More Words later: i'm a bodyguard neighbour.

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

why weren't you on lilith ... ?

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

she was the obvious n1 kill ... ?
who were you on then?

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

SS.

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

SS.

you thought ss was more likely to do than lilith ???

yes

@mena this is ehat i was thinking of wrt duck

[skitter30]

My priority there would always be denying town the cop

The problem with doing this is then you pretty much have to claim cop. And skitter can tell you how well that goes :3

yeah 2/10, would not recommend

[skitter30]

she's been really transparent and the interaction with mena during d2 felt really T/T to me

@mena @infinity this bit is why i don't feel like it's a super generic/bad townread on me
there's a bit more nuance here than just like generic ~super obvtown, has nuance~ etc

and i can understand objectively how someone might come to that conclusion about the me/mena interactions ^

[skitter30]

kind of sort of feel like skitter would not pursue a target so singlemindedly as scum but that's more on the idea that most people would pivot off if it became clear it wasn't viable, don't have an idea if that thing would be in her wheelhouse or not

it is, but i don't think i would be doing it here as scum

[skitter30]

VOTE: dave

[skitter30]

we all like collectively have ignored the possibility of 1s commuter being the reason the kill went missing n1, i'm noting

i'm not super vibing dave!scum tbh but idk where to vote rn

[skitter30]

VOTE: hoopla let's try this

[skitter30]

we all like collectively have ignored the possibility of 1s commuter being the reason the kill went missing n1, i'm noting

I did so because commuter has literally never been successfully taken in any run of this setup before.

fair enough

[skitter30]

I also don't get these hoopla votes. I thought her push on skitter was the towniest thing she's done all game.

i'm kinda at the point where i'm running out of people i can think are scum so i'm voting people i don't townread as strongly
i don't deny that she's done townie things, but like in my internal ranking of how townie people are, she's not super high in comparison to other people

[skitter30]

My priority there would always be denying town the cop

The problem with doing this is then you pretty much have to claim cop. And skitter can tell you how well that goes :3

yeah 2/10, would not recommend

Is this a throwback to venrobs or am I missing something?

venrob throwback

[skitter30]

generally speaking i find earnestness in the face of absurdity suspicious, because it shows you're more interested in placating me despite having no real reason to.

I actually think hoopla is on to something here. Like town!skitter doesn't

ignore

the questions per se, but she's more likely to have some sort of emotional response to the push along the lines of "why are you asking me to do this", where as scum she's more likely to unconsiously give validity to the line of questioning. I also saw some of this from the mena/skitter interactions in the past few questions, where it felt like mena was questioning skitter and she didn't really show an emotional response from the push, such as "idk what to tell you, I'm town here", or "I understand why you're pushing on me, but you're on the wrong track" or something else.

idk why you think i'd have an emotional response to hoopla's line of questioning as either alignment
mena's didn't really bother me either
i think i'm becoming mellow in my old age

[skitter30]

idk what to say, neither bothered me

[skitter30]

Yeah i thought about pulling that out too but didnt bother

[skitter30]

The issue is that I know that when she focuses on me she can make me TR her for tone/feel when she’s scum, *even if I’m aware of that and looking out for it*.

tbf i'm not actually sure i can, you usually sort it out properly when i'm scum
i maintain my lilith sr, and my earlier reasons to sr you (i no longer scumread you tho)

i'm also like not ~super~ worried about your disagreement with me here atm, cuz you'll eventually come around or i'll like die or something before it needs to be forced

[skitter30]

I find myself aligning more with mena's thoughts than skitter's at this point - and am foregoing my paranoia read that they are both scum batting us around like a cat with a ball of yarn - so consider my vote for dunn.

that would be fun, but is sadly not the case

k i gotta boucne for the weekend, but again don't really vibe dunn!scum. i'll leave it there

[skitter30]

He has directly crumbed at least one of the roles you mentioned.

Well since it's out there, i'll just say i spotted this too, and this is the primary reason i'm opposing dunn rn

I explicitlydo not tr him on play

[skitter30]

I will not push for Dunn’s actual flip until you get back, although I do want that claim now that we have intent

Have a good one! Also agree it would be fun if this was elaborate theatre

ty
and you don't need to wait for me, i just said what i was thinking tbh so like whatever
he's probably gonna claim what he softed

idk if i believe it or not but if we're not gonna vote out lilith we can't really vote him out either :shrug:

[skitter30]

Yeah lilith is town

and also I was neighborized by somebody last night so can confirm that role is in the game

i thought this was softing cop ^
i' don't particularly think dunn is scum, but i don't have any particular objections to voting him out there. wouldn't be surprised if he flipped town tho

[skitter30]

so let me get this straight: you want to flip lilith, claim be damned, and say that the scumteam could reasonably deduce most roles by now, but oppose the vote on Dunnstral because he crumbed a role?

well i thought he was crumbing cop, which i don't think scum!him takes

[skitter30]

If I hadn’t started to present as townie (as skitt thinks) then it was a weirder decision to out as either alignment and prob does increase lili’s scum equity

your flurry of towniness was at e-1, which, again, happened after she claimed
plz check into this ^

[skitter30]

actually the more i think about it the more i think dunn!scum makes sense

[skitter30]

Put more shortly: if dunn is scum skitter is probably town bc I don’t think she takes this line on him

If dunn is town then I don’t think skitt gives up the white knight position that she’s been taking throughout the day in the way she did

yeah that's p spot on

[skitter30]

skitter, I think I start being townie from like 1522, even tho the wagon keeps growing on me, which is well before lilith outs her JK on me for N1

ok but the key bit is that *you weren't perceived as being townie until later*