Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[seCret hYdra]

hello ladies and gentelmen, very secret and sneaky hydra here

VOTE: penguin eating popcorn in a laid back way, probably scum watching town tearing themselves apart from the sidelines

[seCret hYdra]

also holy fuck that game started quick

[seCret hYdra]

wdym, it's our top secret sneaking classified sneak hydra pfp

- HYdra

[seCret hYdra]

something something iconic d1 yeet VOTE: secret hydra

it's only 50% inconing though

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

hello ladies and gentelmen, very secret and sneaky hydra here

VOTE: penguin eating popcorn in a laid back way, probably scum watching town tearing themselves apart from the sidelines

totally not popcorn. they're chestnuts. learn to read japanese my dude.

oh fuck sorry sir how can i be forgiven for such a mistake

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ben

[seCret hYdra]

wdym, it's our top secret sneaking classified sneak hydra pfp

- HYdra

This secret hydra thing is cool but who is HYdra

take a guess, good answer and you're townlocked for d1, wrong one and i tunnel you

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

VOTE: inifinity 324

what a choke !

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

(ftr, the "Y" is from gYpyx and the "C" from iConeum)

[seCret hYdra]

I should've been able to tell based on the y, but you seem a lot more energetic than normal gypyx, which is nice.

PEdit: ok

well thanks, guess it's prob the rvs energy

still voting u tho

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

More energy from Gypyx is a good sign, the only reason he was able to keep the energy levels up in Tenet was he had a scumteam breathing down his neck. Of his own volition I'd be comfortable slotting them as town, but will reevaluate later if I notice him losing steam.

2/10

Ninja-
Meh I'm standing by the townread

and why you assuming that's not the case here?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

scipio town, penguin hard town.

agreed on scipio, where the fuck are you getting this read from on penguin

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

hello memers

Sorry, meme-free zone. No fun allowed.

can i un-tunnel infinity?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

cuz banning memes deserves a vote

- hYdra

pedit : that's putting a lot of trust in a read based on 3 posts tbh

ppedit : got caught in something and lot of posts, not reading them, that was @infinity

[seCret hYdra]

hello memers

Sorry, meme-free zone. No fun allowed.

can i un-tunnel infinity?

- hYdra

I'll allow it.

cool

VOTE: schiavetto

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

i have too little, tell me more

You feel more relaxed than I'd expect scum!you to be

Notsci pointed out what I was thinking (whether gypyx's energy is towny)

Gypyx is energetic and therefore towny

Scipio had a towny reaction to townslipping

Ben dover is new so being relaxed is a good sign

Implo probably has a good reason to TR penguin

Disagree with almost all of these but I think Infinity is likely town for this.

disagree aka : you think this is NAI or you think that means the opposite?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

that's putting a lot of trust in a read based on 3 posts tbh

I mean, I'm not putting

that

much stock into it, but I do think some people can play RVS very differently based on alignment and I like to trust my first instincts.

wait so you're TR'ing implo or penguin?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

huh okay, cuz that sounded like a read on implo

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

gypyx do you have any alignment-relevant thoughts

townbinning scipio / infinity / aaron (order of strength)

no real sr but isis entrance makes me go hmmmmmmm

off to eat, see y'all

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

yes, i am in fact only pretending to be gypyx, you figured me out well done

[seCret hYdra]

yes, i am in fact only pretending to be gypyx, you figured me out well done

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

nah i got the joke

just that i got a bit too far in my humour i think

[seCret hYdra]

@datisi I read a bit of random facts too, but my read on you is mostly based on you saying once that scum!you is nervous

i'm not sure this is the most reliable tell. i think most people tend to be a little nervous while playing scum, but would also want to hide the fact that they're nervous.

uh, don't get your point on this one sir

[seCret hYdra]

Pingu
datisi
notsci
implo

AF

isis
NM

ben dover
schiav

infinity
sec-hyd
scipio

-QB

tell me more about that scipio SR

[seCret hYdra]

Pingu
datisi
notsci
implo

AF

isis
NM

ben dover
schiav

infinity
sec-hyd
scipio

-QB

tell me more about that scipio SR

did not like fake townslip

felt genuine to me (i assume you're speaking about the gf dumbtell)

although the tell on it's own could come from either alignement, it's more how he reacted to it y'know?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

not understanding a single thing bridge is saying rn lmao

I (the first person pronoun -- referring in this case to the player slot known as "bridge burners", specifically the Quick Ben head of the hydra) am (first person conjugation of the verb "to be") prepared (to be willing to) to write (verb -- to inscribe words using keyboard or pen that have meaning and allow communication with others) one (1) (number, used to signify quantity) haiku (a short poetic form generally consisting of a 5 syllable line, followed by a 7 syllable line, followed by a 5 syllable line, although these conventions can be broken when writing in English and not in the original Japanese) or (used to link two alternative options) one (1) (number again) limerick (a humorous poetic form with a rhyme pattern of AABBA, typically rather irreverent) for anyone (one of the two poetic options will be designed the person accepting my offer) who votes (who uses the code

Code: Select all

[vote][/vote]

to place a vote within this game of mafia, signifying who they would like to be eliminated today) scipio (another player in the game) rn (contraction; signifies "right now") so we (referring to the rest of the players in the game) can (to be able to) end (to finish, terminate) D1 (the first day of play in most mafia games and variants) in under (to be below a certain number) 10 (another number, signifying ten individual units of a thing) pages (25 posts on mafiascum(dot)net).

I hope this clears things up!

post of the year

i'm impressed by that quality of shitposting

[seCret hYdra]

@datisi I read a bit of random facts too, but my read on you is mostly based on you saying once that scum!you is nervous

i'm not sure this is the most reliable tell. i think most people tend to be a little nervous while playing scum, but would also want to hide the fact that they're nervous.

uh, don't get your point on this one sir

my point is that i don't think it's necessarily a strong reason to townread someone

i do think infinity throwing out townreads like candy is more town indicative than not though

i mean, you're saying "peoples are stressed when playing scum, so therefore stress isn't a scumtell" which is ???????

prob minsundersteanding someting but like, idk

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Rawr!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

i thought i was the only one who read the Malazan books

-seCret head

[seCret hYdra]

can whoever of the 2 (or both) of the Bridgeburners hydra contact my ehm

friend Iconeum

privately to talk about that stuff

asking for him

-seCret head

[seCret hYdra]

this game is now officially about the Malazan books

[seCret hYdra]

something something iconic d1 yeet VOTE: secret hydra

How far this intro has come

However it also doesn’t apply, Ico would need to be here

yeah exactly

i'm so glad he /outed from this game

-seCret head

[seCret hYdra]

Wait, this isn’t the scum PT

yeah it's confusing me as well, having the main game, scum pt, a hydra pt and personal notes

-seCret head

[seCret hYdra]

hello ladies and gentelmen, very secret and sneaky hydra here

VOTE: penguin eating popcorn in a laid back way, probably scum watching town tearing themselves apart from the sidelines

very sus profile pic

omg

VOTE: ben dover123

[seCret hYdra]

(ftr, the "Y" is from gYpyx and the "C" from iConeum)

U JUST GIVE US AWAY LIKE THIS???????

-seCret head

[seCret hYdra]

can i vote my other head?

[seCret hYdra]

boom

[seCret hYdra]

oh i see. re read on me, is that supposed to be a more meta or general read?

Meta, I heard you say somewhere that you tend to be nervous as scum yeah?

Datisi's scumrange has exploded the last couple weeks/months

-seCret head

[seCret hYdra]

@datisi I read a bit of random facts too, but my read on you is mostly based on you saying once that scum!you is nervous

so i went to check that out, and in post game there you said you really thought i was town while reading

i'm half-tempted to just townbin this for now because this seems like such a bizarre read???

early townreads on both of these slots

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

(ftr, the "Y" is from gYpyx and the "C" from iConeum)

U JUST GIVE US AWAY LIKE THIS???????

-seCret head

look man it's a triple psychology to make them think that i'm trying to make them think that we revealed our identity

we discussed this

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

VOTE: isis

still wanna kill this btw

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

(ftr, the "Y" is from gYpyx and the "C" from iConeum)

U JUST GIVE US AWAY LIKE THIS???????

-seCret head

look man it's a triple psychology to make them think that i'm trying to make them think that we revealed our identity

we discussed this

- hYdra

ooooh ur doing the 'thing' already? Great

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Ime scum in general want their posts to sound reasonable, but posts that make no sense are scum-indicative for isis in my experience. Really not sure why scum!isis comes out the gate with a push on town!skitt/mena that's verifiably wrong, and I'd like skitt/mena to come up with a possible explanation for that.

elaborate on this? like at first you said that posts that make no sense are scum!indicative for isis, then isis's verifiably wrong push on skitt isn't scum!indicative? or am missing the difference between nonsense and verifiably wrong?

good vibes from penguin in 279 (and adding 296 to that too). (though there were vague good vibes before too but this is the first time i feel like i can point to a post and say "good vibes right here")

oh look seCret head is here oh gee i wonder who that is

ico, is that gonna be the extent of your catchup? i wanna see more

hot fucking take:
327 is literally the most ai post that slot has made so far
also it's town!indicative

ico /outed from the game in the signup thread, i noticed
unfortunately he aint here to party

it's ok that you think i'm him, i'm trying to emulate his amazing playstyle here
this is a secret hydra after all, don't think you can figure out our heads so easily

now, yeah. That was the extent of my ketchup yeah. I have thoughts like early townpings on datisi/Pwngu/scipio and (not a pocket attempt) i like most of your takes here. I also agree with my other head that our vote is good on isis right now.

Other then that, I have nothing to share with you right now.

Here is a dragon gif, because that is what Ico would probably do



-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

other head is in charge of our isis vote

i'm just supporting him with it

6/10? not too bad for my first try

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

ben is like

neutral to slight townlean for me, who needs to be punished for sussing our avi

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i am not against it and i can see the read, so he has my dragonseal of approval

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

basically, the Isis vote is just a stack of small things rn

- entrance is kinda weird, like idk how to put it, but saying just "hello" then casing a rvs vote, feels like filling a checklist of rvs stuff to do

-

I will write you a sonnet if you vote skitter

I don't think she scumreads me

trying to mimick what the other peoples are doing

- the push on skitter makes little sense and i find it more likely to come from scum

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

wonder who's this sexy ass red face person

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

hoping she’ll get towncred for *checks notes* making an obviously bad push (where BoP of her scumgame leads to a TR)

Ok, but the more occam's razor-y explanation is that town had a weird thought than scum did something intentionally bad to get a TR

or y'know, scum can have weird thoughts too

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

and how would the thoughts being weird be different from that?

(in my experience, it often has good consequences for scum, but maybe that's cuz i suck lol)

[seCret hYdra]

and how would the thoughts being weird be different from that?

(in my experience, it often has good consequences for scum, but maybe that's cuz i suck lol)

There's always that one person who says "I can't possibly believe this would come from town"

And yeah, maybe isis knew that this town didn't have many of those type of people so she decided to do a weird play

But again, occam's razor

in my experience that's not really a huge risk, and even if it was, i'd be ok with one person SR'ing me to get TR's from the rest of the game

but i don't think anyone is gonna change the other opinion on this one

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

jeez, that's a pretty big leap from us

any reason why? also who's AFF?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

ah okay ty

also i sometimes get into dumb arguments yea

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

i'm scumleaning gypyx but townleaning ico, help

recent gypyx posts feel like arguing for the sake of arguing

pedit: oh hello
what's changed your mind about the hydra?

you seem to think you have our heads identities

i assure you, you don't

if you are scumleaning one head, why is that? What did the other head do to make you townread that one? We are both voting for Isis, so what is different?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Why are people TR'ing Penguin? I don't see it.

you aren't fluid in penguin, that's ok

he's prob town yeah

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

In answer to both: I liked Ico’s entrance a lot and I’m TRing that

hahahahha talking about ico again

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i assure you this is a very secret hydra

[seCret hYdra]

When I read "NM's E-1" a second time I realized there was a second interpretation that wasn't the way I interpreted it the first time

"The E-1 that NM can hammer on" vs "E-2, which should be treated as E-1 with NM in the game"

[seCret hYdra]

infinity/scipio/datisi/pp/bridgeburners can be the townblock for today (ourselves included)

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I would like to know what about the isis wagon feels evil and why, btw dats

Also, would like to know why it’s AFF?

-QB

i don't know. i get a bad feeling from the fact the game was after ben and she kept calling ben townie and now it's slowly turning against her and she is just making posts like 465 which i feel like don't help her case at all? like this sorta quietness/shutting down is something i'd maybe expect from newer scum but not like, isis!scum?

can i say ~gut~? earlier in the game i got an off vibe from him for a bit but i ignored it bc i was more interested in ben at the time. now i feel like a good number of his posts doesn't actually serve a purpose (e.g. 444, 446, 459) and i didn't like his vote on isis

how is posting without a purpose scum!indicative? i'd even say that's the opposite / just playstyle things?

and what so bad about the Isis vote

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

okay uh re-checked the vote and i think i see what you mean but i'd like an answer still

[seCret hYdra]

now i feel like a good number of his posts doesn't actually serve a purpose

i suited up to give you a world of crap for this remark and was ready to bring the big'uns

but then you made 486 just in time lol

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Alright cool, back. Apologies for daylong pause.

Right off the bat, it feels like most of you know each other pretty well, which is great! I don't know any of you, though, and culture clash kills games, so I'm gonna throw some things out there before moving any further:
-EST (bEST)
-I'm at work from 7-5 most weekdays, most of which time is spent interfacing directly via zoom. Activity will reflect that.
-It's been a while since I've played on MS specifically, but if you need reference games I can pull from here, Pokemon Showdown (home community), Smogon, or MU (hydra).
-Probably going to keep most of this shallow for the sake of actually getting back into the thread. Contents of this post apply up through #173, which is where I last left off reading before checking out.

A lot of your names blurred but the main things that jumped out to me:

-From what I can tell, Gypyx head is being townread for energy-levels/engagement mostly? What's the point of comparison for that, and what would you call "energetic" for them? Volume, tone, etc.? Doesn't feel like an (immediately) useful indicator to me w/o some frame of reference

-I think I can vibe with the early townleans on Infinity. A lot of intentionality & probing that, even if it comes from scum, mostly just benefits town in the longrun. Let's run with it.

-I'm going to have to backread to decide how much I actually care about Bridgeburner's shitposting but earlier throwaway remarks aside, I'm not terribly impressed by it, and while I don't find it inherently problematic, it does tend to open itself up pretty easily to hollow remarks like this (which I don't love from Aaron). The less memey shit (134, 140-41) feels cozy though. Cautious TR.

-Going back to Aaron, it's just weird imo what he's chosen to respond to. TR from him on Infinity feels like it only came out to soften his vote. 100 is a weird nitpick for me: the natural follow-up there imo is that suppressing nerves and not having those nerves in the first place are two p different things (which is my next issue with it--reliability/unreliability of nervousness as a tell depends a lot on what nervousness looks like imo, which is more probably more pertinent if you're going to start poking at that line of thinking). It's only a handful of posts, and none of it's egregious, but it feels off.

Clicking submit. Reading rest of thread. Rereading thread in entirety. Posting later tonight.

this feels like a genuine read
nothing more substantial then that, just a gut read here

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Hereby i present Random Assorted Thoughts on Recent Postings:

- i don't particularly like dats' take in 483 and 486

- i'm kinda liking notsci rn

- mena doesn't really like schiavetto's entrance but i'm kinda meh on it. don't love the timing of his aaron read

- isis i hope you're ok <3

- i'm not sure i, like, get the aaron thing that's picking up steam rn

~ skitter

ah yes the famous and well known 'RATRP' protocol

i haven't been pinged by dats in a bad way this game, outside of his 'posting with no clear objective is scummy'
and what you quoted doesn't really ping me in a bad way either

you can tell mena that i do like schiavetti and if he wants to fight over it he can come out and play himself

willing to let the aaaron thing just play out, frankly

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Secret hydra I notably haven't really actually invested any energy to try to read yet

why?

both of the heads we are trying to emulate aren't very hard to read, and we haven't exactly been staying away from giving opinions and thoughts

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

sEcret hYdra has only 1 notable thing, that's the progression from 327 (saying Datisi's scumrange has exploded) to 328 (TR'ing Datisi early) which is weird but I think it's the towny weird? Other than that nothing really is telling from them imo.

we have early townreads, an attempt at a townblock, a push on isis and those thoughts on datisi

saying we 'only have this 1 thing we did' is a misrep and i don't take those lightly…

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I just said why I'm voting isis.

The bottom tier isn't really scumreads, it's not-yet-townreads, I don't really have any good reasons to scumread anyone atm.

eeehhhh

this reads like you don't wanna commit to 'too many townreads', but also don't really wanna have scumreads that can bite you, ya feel?

hmmmm

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i wanna give townpoints for the youtube readslist lol

~ skitter

absolutely agree lol

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i didn't post 192 (i also feel like that should be somewhat self-evident from the very next few posts)
and like i (i.e. my slot) stopped voting you because mena wanted to do something different. if it were just me i probably would have been on you this whole time. it's a little strange to me that that's your critique of my vote on you given that this is a hydra ...

~ skitter

i did not track this

now I just want to policy both the hydras and start a micro

death to all hydras!

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

boom

[seCret hYdra]

you can tell mena that i do like schiavetti and if he wants to fight over it he can come out and play himself

Okay why?

I don’t disagree that schiavetto has been sort of charming so far but not in an AI way and to a degree I think that charming is glibness, which I see more as a scum trait

Happy to listen on why he’s town tho

-QB

i disagree that the 'charm' is NAI, to me it was pretty clearly done in a very natural and agenda-free manner, where he just spouted his thoughts
also i'm a sucker for stuff like those YT links
nothing feels forced or off

there's plenty for an early day 1 townpile

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

do people even read these wallposts? should i start separating these into multiple posts?

i personally am unable to comprend the words written in a post past 1O lines tbh

[seCret hYdra]

how am i supposed to play mafia with hydras that unvote and revote from login to login and tell me I can't try to sort their voting pattern
I'm exasperated

hmmm tell me more, you get double voting patterns and you can't read that? or am me misundersteanding

also on a side note, did anyone do the math on the odds of having 2 scum?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

ugh

my brain feels like jelly rn

bad posts incoming

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Also just to make sure I'm still looking in the right direction,

@everyone on the isis wagon

are you still voting her because of the V/LA attack?

basically yes, and the fact that posting up to ~page 25 was also pretty bad

things have improved recently tho

[seCret hYdra]

Also did sec/hyd just fall off the map or is that just me? I have little to no memory of any of their recent posts.

nope we're here

i tried to take a short break from mafia cuz my mood was a wreck, and other head is mimicking ico's weekend v/la

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

VOTE: Frost

hey NM, make a readslist for me and i'll give u a hammer

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

also does anyone disagree with schiavetto town?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

She put a lot of effort into her reads and I respect that. Not fully town for me but entering that nulltown area.

that's an "effort = town" kind of read?

[seCret hYdra]

by the way, i personally kinda have trouble to get reads rn but my other head thinks that datis is playing to a part of his town meta that he hasn't broken yet, and we also have a scumtell on him that he didn't trigger

so not feeling too great about a dats wagon

anyways i'll prob not be able to post much more, busy day

pedit : i'm always in for an exe on NM btw

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Well, town apathy is kicking in as you guys said.

VOTE: AFF we need wagons and Isis isn't one I'm joining.

what makes you wagon AFF over Isis then?

-very seCret head

[seCret hYdra]

VOTE: AFF we need wagons and Isis isn't one I'm joining.

have your reads changed in any way in the last ~18 hours and if so, how?

No, they have remained the same since then. Nothing has changed for me yet.

ok so can you talk to me about why you're voting aff now then? you said earlier he's "rather null" and that you wanna wait a bit until voting. the only +town thing you mentioned about isis was that the early attack was more likely to be bad town. is that still the case? is that the whole reason behind not wanting to join the isis wagon? bc i'm still struggling to follow your thought process here and if you're town i'd really like it if you could show me that?

Towntisi? Hello? Is this you?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

@Datisi

why does it feel like you're sort of backing down from your push on me when you were the one who got it started in the first place with that spicy vote? It's weird to me because there has been some resistance to the push on me, but not

that

much and I feel like you should be interacting with me a little more to try and figure out my alignment, but there just doesn't seem like much effort to read me at all.

Your play around the top two wagons feels pretty wishy-washy right now, you mentioned you didn't vibe with the Isis wagon and then you started the wagon onto me then didn't do much with it when it picked up steam other than an apparent dislike of Isis and ben dover's vote on me.

if it was scum!Tisi's intention of pushing you and potentially killing you, can you answer your own question? What motivation does scum!Tisi have to back down the second it gains traction? Seems counter productive.

Town!Tisi getting pinged by a shady sheep vote and backing down feels a lot more like what happened here

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

WHO IS AFF?!?!?!?!

it's aaron fucking frost

a stroke of genius

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

VOTE: AFF we need wagons and Isis isn't one I'm joining.

have your reads changed in any way in the last ~18 hours and if so, how?

No, they have remained the same since then. Nothing has changed for me yet.

ok so can you talk to me about why you're voting aff now then? you said earlier he's "rather null" and that you wanna wait a bit until voting. the only +town thing you mentioned about isis was that the early attack was more likely to be bad town. is that still the case? is that the whole reason behind not wanting to join the isis wagon? bc i'm still struggling to follow your thought process here and if you're town i'd really like it if you could show me that?

This seems like a scumpost to me. The last line is level zero, extremely towny to post. Datisi knows it's extremely townie to post. But I don't think Datisi organically posted it. It reads like a plastic cake to me. like. this post has 6-7 different lines of inquiry trying to tease out of ben to "solve" him and it seems like overkill and the organic version of this post would focus either on the AaronFrost read or the Isis read.

like.
idk look at some of this diction

it felt very natural to me actually

and like

you know it's a townie thing to post
he knows it's a townie thing to post

datisi might post it as either allignment

that should make you conclude it's NAI at worst, and not scum!indicative

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

This seems like a scumpost to me. The last line is level zero, extremely towny to post

i really don't get this

'this is an extremely townie thing to post and datisi knows that, therefore he is scum'

i'm not saying he's not capable of faking that, but it's at worst a 50/50 toss up coming from either allignment. I would understand you not giving townie points for it but calling it a fullblown scumpost?

Nope

endorsing my other head's vote on isis, and would absolutely vote this out of the game at EoD but my vote on Isis isn't going to improve reads at this point

VOTE: ben dover

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

VOTE: penguin

worst vote of the game confirmed

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Like - it’s such a weird trajectory to take Isis to NM’s e-1 then unvote when actually taken to e-1 then to say “I think Isis is town.”

Isis posting has been town since then

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Also did sec/hyd just fall off the map or is that just me? I have little to no memory of any of their recent posts.

checks post count

*scipio 33 posts
*sec hyd 86 posts

sees scipio shade us for lurking??????

[seCret hYdra]

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I expect to think "oh that post is pretty towny" for Datisi more than most players. I've only played with him one time that I wasn't scum and he was super super towny. I tend to like to grade people on a curve, because some people have a kind of townie baseline or scummy baseline.

I didn't really agree with townreading a bunch of his early play, you must be thinking of other players who have said that. I remember mentally noting that the towncase on dragon looks pretty much like how Datisi develops an early townread on dragon or pretends to do so, rathe indistinguishably (dragon is Iconeum)

hahahahaha look at these fools who think they know the identity of our very seCret hYdra heads ahahaha

[img]https://media.tenor.com/images/58b930b2 ... or.gif/img]

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

fml

[seCret hYdra]

I expect to think "oh that post is pretty towny" for Datisi more than most players. I've only played with him one time that I wasn't scum and he was super super towny. I tend to like to grade people on a curve, because some people have a kind of townie baseline or scummy baseline.

I didn't really agree with townreading a bunch of his early play, you must be thinking of other players who have said that. I remember mentally noting that the towncase on dragon looks pretty much like how Datisi develops an early townread on dragon or pretends to do so, rathe indistinguishably (dragon is Iconeum)

hahahahaha look at these fools who think they know the identity of our very seCret hYdra heads ahahaha



-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

that basicly proves 'im not this Iconeum character, he would not mess up gifs like that

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Yeah you aren't the only one who noticed this. No offense but their contributions seem...nonexistent almost? Besides that weird progression.

what weird progression

and how the fuck are we not contributing

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

ben dover lockscum you can just bank that right now

that is such a shady post it's making my eyes bleed

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

we are being attacked because … the last time we posted was LESS THEN 24!! HOURS AGO?

AND WE FUCKING FELL OFF THE MAP??????

ben dover is ded

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

more like ben ded

amiright

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Honestly I'm at basically the same place with aaron with 604 being the one scummy post

Idk who's scum so time to sheep my past self

UNVOTE:
VOTE: implo

how did you go so quickly from scumreading datisi to joining him on implo?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

ben dover get yer ass in here and prepare for a spanking

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

disagreeing with the ben vote, i'll discuss with me other head

apart from that, last pages really feel like a NAI mess, not convinced by the case on implo, idk if that's a good or bad look for skitt

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

hello? townconeum?? they're tryna fuckin' kill me, help

not on my watch

Iconeum wouldn't allow that so neither can I

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

@hYdra, i'm interested in seeing what you're thinking wrt ben

he is currently occupied irl a bit so i don't know if he can answer or not

from what I can tell, my other head feels that my push is kinda light, tho after I explained what I saw and what i'm doing he has no problem letting this play out

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

we are also about equally worried about that implo sheep vote

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I SUMMON BEN DOVER TO THIS THREAD

to make the bending over joke or not hmmmmmmmm

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

implo's sheep vote onto ben

hYdra feels that that 'one quote' I used was kinda light for the vote

but then I explained it wasn't really about accusing us of lurking/non-contributing alone, but the manner in how he seemed to be enabling skipio in potentially pushing us (he was the first to call us smt like non-contributing)

you get what i mean?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Also did sec/hyd just fall off the map or is that just me? I have little to no memory of any of their recent posts.

checks post count

*scipio 33 posts
*sec hyd 86 posts

sees scipio shade us for lurking??????

this just irritated me because I think our slot has had plenty of contributions this game so far
damn

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Yeah you aren't the only one who noticed this. No offense but their contributions seem...nonexistent almost? Besides that weird progression.

what weird progression

and how the fuck are we not contributing

-seCret

ben dover lockscum you can just bank that right now

that is such a shady post it's making my eyes bleed

-seCret

but that post just piled onto skip's callout without directly adressing us and feels like he is trying to nudge skip into pushing it, which is a scumtell

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i see ico is now blatantly cheating

how rude

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

badaboom

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

hey i was the one supposed to make the fake altslip dude

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

pedit: lol @isis ico is town

*the head trying to make you think it's Ico is town would be a better statement, and it's true

this is a secret hydra after all

-seCret

mod wants us to quote that post from this person exterior to our hydra for some reason

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

implo's sheep vote onto ben

hYdra feels that that 'one quote' I used was kinda light for the vote

but then I explained it wasn't really about accusing us of lurking/non-contributing alone, but the manner in how he seemed to be enabling skipio in potentially pushing us (he was the first to call us smt like non-contributing)

you get what i mean?

-seCret

i can't tell if you realize me calling it a sheep vote was a joke or not

what kind of vote is it then? because even if it's not sheeping, i (and other head) really hate the way you made it

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Never said you were lurking, just forgettable

[seCret hYdra]

Which fits a theory that maybe Datisi and Iconeum are just scum together

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

How the heck am I not a viable vote at this phase of the game? This reeks of knowing the alignment of my detractors better than I do.

it means that i would like to persue my own scumread at this point µ

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

How confident are you that datisi is town this game?

as confident as one can be on day 1

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i know my reasons for voting ben dover but this got to NM-1 awfully quickly on a rather weak case even if i say so myself

[seCret hYdra]

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

should I do the kill Aaron for posting any IioA ever thing?

I've had too many shots for inaction atm

i don't understand he IioA thing

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

are you scum with Datisi

i'm a townie boy

you think i'm scum?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

fwiw i think ben is fairly townie

~ skitter

i find it interesting that both heads of this hydra disagree on the ben read, but i'm not sure what it means atm

we don't disagree

ben pinged me, and i'm pushing it
hYdra head thought the case i had was weak, because he thought it was just based on that 1 quote i made. After I explained it properly, they fully agree on pushing this

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

do i need to link the wiki page for iioa

datisi and you are either masons or scum

i know what it stands for, but i don't *understand* it

we are neither of those glorious options - I would have taken either

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Is iconeum the godfather and datisi the goon

more shade plis

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

it seems like there has to be scum townreading me right

are you scumreading us or not?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

what posts from aaron are IioA?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

iioa is when scum feels obligated to post to contribute but then their post doesn't draw conclusions from the game, it only restates the game. it is scummy

ok i understand that, but i don't really see it in aaronF's iso

on datisi slot alone aaron has decent content

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

fwiw i think ben is fairly townie

~ skitter

i find it interesting that both heads of this hydra disagree on the ben read, but i'm not sure what it means atm

oh i see

well

if that pings you, why not push it?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

idk if I'm scumreading you, I don't want to force a mason claim tho

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i'm scum with aaron now?



-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

u were upset i'm hurting ben too fast

then when i talk about aaron's scumminess you use a very deflective defense

no, i wanna hurt ben myself before I give him to the masses

and i'm not deflective about aaron, i think the one (1) post you quoted isn't great indeed, but I don't think his entire iso is devoid of content like you were suggesting

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

why would you persuade your top scumread away to a vanity wagon when she is voting with you????

because one of our top scumreads is voting with us, on a wagon that went from zero to NM-1 in a day or smt and it's creeping us out

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

iconeum howw many images has datisi posted in the pt

I can imagine there have been a few by now

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

This seems like a scumpost to me. The last line is level zero, extremely towny to post

i really don't get this

'this is an extremely townie thing to post and datisi knows that, therefore he is scum'

i'm not saying he's not capable of faking that, but it's at worst a 50/50 toss up coming from either allignment. I would understand you not giving townie points for it but calling it a fullblown scumpost?

Nope

endorsing my other head's vote on isis, and would absolutely vote this out of the game at EoD but my vote on Isis isn't going to improve reads at this point

VOTE: ben dover

-seCret

care to comment on this beautifull post? do you agree with me?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

do you have any updated thoughts on burners of bridges

@seCrEt

not the seCret head, but we chatted and we both have small gutpings on the annahilator of bridges, he didn't say on *what* though

[seCret hYdra]

tbf would be cool if ben went in the thread so that we could actually move fowards

[seCret hYdra]

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

beetlejuice moment

bottom rawr !

[seCret hYdra]

damnit

UNVOTE:

think this gets easily disproven if fake

[seCret hYdra]

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Yesterday was long.

I don't especially feel compelled to jump off from the claim. If there's some other good wagon then it'd be fine to but the claim isn't convincing.

I'd like Hydra to explain why

exactly

he says it'd be "easily disproven if fake". That post feels like scum hastily trying to be one of the first people to give judgment on a claim and get credit for that but not actually thinking about what they're saying because I don't think that's how tracker claims play out in practice.

Menalque's reaction is +town in context I think.

the numbers mason, the numbers

first of all, satistics indicate to 0/1/2 "I" to be rolled, that means that if we have another tracker, it's a realistically 99% counterclaim

then, i think we can pretty much all agree that scum wouldn't claim tracker in a power stacked game, as it's the best way to die while being proven fake, so in the event that ben is actually scum, he's in a high "T" scumteam, therefore we wouldn't lose at 5p LyLo, and if he's still alive at that point, the evidence will become pretty fucking damning

that's how i see the setup anyways, but i'd really like it if ben stopped being underwhelming

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

so in the event that ben is actually scum, he's in a high "T" scumteam,

therefore we wouldn't lose at 5p LyLo

, and if he's still alive at that point, the evidence will become pretty fucking damning

what does the bolded mean?

also, i dunno how much i wanna play this game assuming scum is always making "optimal" moves. like, last time i played this setup, scum claimed vengeful.

i mean, that 7p wouldn't be ExLo, you see what i mean?

(sk shenanegans taken aside of course)

and idk, this is a very fine playerlist of very fine gentlemen i'll assume y'all kinda know how to play at least

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

first of all, satistics indicate to 0/1/2 "I" to be rolled, that means that if we have another tracker, it's a realistically 99% counterclaim

You said "easily disproved if fake", not "easily disproved if fake and there's a real tracker as well". The probability of 0 I letters given no prior info is 32%, not exactly trivially low. I could say more here on the statistics but won't for now, but suffice to say "99%" is a

very drastic overstatement

. This still seems, as I described, a hasty statement.

then, i think we can pretty much all agree that scum wouldn't claim tracker in a power stacked game,

Hard disagree. They could claim tracker to elicit a counter, they could claim it to live a few more days to use their own power role if they think they don't have longevity, they could claim it and try to make it to endgame as menalque described.

pulls spreadsheet out

yes, but 1/2 I's would also be equally terrible for ben given the following

the equation for the probability of these numbers, which... i'm actually too dumb to actually make holy fuck, anyways, common sense tells me that it's fairly high, way higher than the odds of 3/4/5/6/7! "I" so anyone being a tracker would cc

eh, there's no super powerful scum role in this setup imo, but i see where you're getting from

i should prob stop wanting to spare PR claims lol

[seCret hYdra]

do you have any updated thoughts on burners of bridges

i swear i thought i replied to this

i'm not interested in pushing them, and i feel they have done enough to earn a day 1 townread from me

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

@QB, is there a reason why you seem allergic to talking to me this game?

this line alone is extremely town!indicative for datisi

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

do you have any updated thoughts on burners of bridges

@seCrEt

not the seCret head, but we chatted and we both have small gutpings on the annahilator of bridges, he didn't say on *what* though

yeah and i also said i have no interest in persuing those today…
ok so my deepest darkest thoughts are spilling into the main thread

i'll keep that in mind when talking to my other head

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

y

-QB

I think that claim is likely to resolve itself sooner rather than later and it's not really something I'd be interested in pursing on day 1, when i'm not super confident on ben dover being scum to begin with

this is just a scummy post

you shouldn't ask me why but if you must you shall

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

why does that claim resolve itself when scum have literally a multitude of fakeclaims to give even if ben were to track one successfully

-QB

why were you voting ben if u weren't that confident in scum!him, AFF?

-QB

see? BB can be town this game hYdra!

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I don't want to talk too much but last two things I want to note are:

1) I'll be trying to use a Katsuki-style in this game after I'm done reading it. Optimally I want to only spend a few minutes each couple of days here, until I feel there's content enough for me to read, or even re:read the whole game and come to a solve. I'm not going to be using capslock

or claiming masons

though, I mean Katsuki-style because I want to learn to lurk more, and scream less. This game is an attempt of me trying to play mafia and be productive elsewhere at the same time.


2) My first thought in the few pages/ posts I did read was that regardless of his actual alignment, Ben would be wagoned, so it's a bit funny to me that he's the top wagon now that I'm replacing-in. For what it's worth, I don't think this fact is related to his alignment at all, it's just easy to see what the common suspects in a game are gonna be, regardless of their actual alignment.

soooo in your first post of content you

-establish you will basicly not be playing this game outside of a couple minutes

every couple of days

-admit to be actively lurking this game, before you even caught up (why did you rep in then? is that even a question i'm allowed to ask?)
-discredit the ben wagon before supposedly not being caught up, while solidly fence-sitting the wagon itself

yeah i'm not exactly impressed by your opening

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

is it bad that I think PP spam posting is very slightly +town...?

I've been interested in the so called "PP Soul Reads" school of thought, adopted by many sympathizers nowadays. It's said that in remote times, when a now veteran group first discovered the bird phenomenon codename PP, they curiously approached the creature, but it seemed very nonchalant about the humans and their petty arguments. The bird's eye did shine when posting GIFs, and it would sometimes suddenly focus in the last posts of a page to assert it's dominance through pagetops, but many couldn't understand the bird.

This is contrary to how I would approach most slots but I want to ask even if you're gonna ignore it possibly:

PP, do you think your play here so far is town indicative of you?

I don't think I've ever seen you talk about your own playstyle. Which probably means I wasted my time typing this because you're gonna ignore it, but my curiosity about how a "PP talks about himself" post would look like can't be contained anymore.

there's a number of scumpings in here, for me

-the entire first sentence
-the entire middle part that is basicly filler
-your question to PP isn't even remotely giving me the impression you actually wanna sort PP
-somewhat forcing PP to go full self-meta because?? you don't wanna form your own opinion?

if i wasn't occupied and waiting for ben to start fighting me over my push on him, i'd be voting here by now

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I want to be masons with

SHIROU

!

why do you wanna roll scum with shrou?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I briefly got confused by capitalisation and the lack thereof and thought that sechyd was meant to be pronounced “seh-chee-dee” and that it was somehow a riff on schiavetto’s name and that we could wagon there instead

-QB

I LITERALLY ONLY JUST NOW REALIZED THAT SECHYD IS REFERRING TO MY SLOT

seriously, i read it exactly like this and was like 'who the fuck is this dude'

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i also asked for schiavetto to be activated IC to simplify things

schiavetto doesn't need IC to activate

it's a town slot most likely

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

man you two really aren't agreeing on anything this game lol

that can be true, but i think it's actually town indicative so i'll take it

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I don't have a full solve or anything at the moment. I want to only say things I've some degree of confidence on, so here they are:

I do believe I could separate this playerlist in four different groups rather than the normal "town read", "null", "scum read".

(

These slots do have different amount of confidence/strenght, but that's something to explore in a later post.

)

I would divide/name the first group as "Coinflips". These slots have bad posts, but there's also motives which makes you wonder if they're really scum, therefore although they being scum would be unsurprising, I couldn't guarantee a scum flip on any of them and they can rather easily simply be town. This group consists of:

[Ben, Scipio, Secret Hydra]


The second group being "The Infamous", which I've a bit more confidence on at least one being scum. The main reason may seem silly but this group just has too many town reads, and scum favorite early activity in games is to produce town reads because they feel burdened to present content to the town, and the easiest way of it is easy town reads. It looks unreliable I know, I can easily be wrong here, but the last time I gave this kind of a read for what it's worth, I caught scum in page 3 I think (I may have amnesia, please understand).

[Aaron, Implosion, Datisi]

The third group is "The Paradox", and the group which means "they shouldn't be null but at the moment I can't actually tell you what is their most likely alignment,

right now

being the keyword", basically I'm not sure how to read their interactions and actions in the game at the moment, and they're a bit of a single unit because my understanding of the game, and of each of those slots, depend on each other quite a bit:

[Isis, Bridge]


The fourth group is "The Leftovers", and I don't know, if things come to worst we probably should consider one of them, but PP actually looks slightly townish so far, and NM is just shrugs for now. I don't think NM is totally unreadable though, I think it's just a read that progress as slow as a turtle, but if we pay attention to him we may understand more of the miltank as time goes. Infinity looks...he doesn't particularly look townie to me but I don't feel anything wrong with his slot so I guess he's fine at the moment?

[Penguim, Not_Mafia, Infinity]

shirou i'm not sure if we ever played together or not… (and you can't answer this because obviously i'm a secret hydra head)
but i just read everything ur posting and my mind goes 'oh god this is so scum' etc

your catchup list is:

-3 players on which you go 'these have good posts and bad posts' without any kind of further digging?

-3 players 'which contain scum because these players have too many townreads'... that's just either a very bad take or a very scummy take. I'm not sure which.

-2 players on which you basicly also go like the first group 'can be scum, can be town'

-4 players who you dump in a 'leftover pile', while also saying PP is actually kinda town, and NM is kinda bleh, but tier them together anyways?

lemme do a quick count here...

yeah.

You have 1 (one) slot that you formed an opinion on, and it's a townread on PP. The rest of that post is basicly a disguised 'i have no reads at all right now' post. And it's framed in such a way as to look like you actually did something.

Shirou is going to flip scum a lot of the times here.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I think it's a bit early but I feel good about this groups

I suppose it's hard to understand what all of this means, honestly maybe I'm posting more for my own sake rather than to people follow or understand me, but yeah.

I can go in-detail about certain slots if someone asks me about the slot specifically and I deem necessary, but again, tentative katsuki-style don't forget.

I'm gonna progress on the above as we go along I suppose, I included implosion there because I did need considering his actions, but some of his posts are so smooth...

@Implosion if you're town please consider that you likely have too many town reads and you need to cut that down by a good amount if possible/not against your personal philosophy.

I particularly think that a town read that can't be trusted is a bit useless, but some people love to throw town reads on D1 just to change their minds later. Dunno.

can you explain exactly what 'good' you feel about these groups? They are literally ALL null reads with the exception of PP.
am i just misreading this? I don't think i am

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Oh by the way, I forgot Schiavetto in the "Leftovers".

I don't feel anything wrong with Schiav at the moment, I'm not worried about the slot right now so I would bin it there.

schiavetti is one of the most obvtown slots in this game

and you pile them in 'leftovers' together with a townread and a bleh read?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

soooo in your first post of content you

-admit to be actively lurking this game, before you even caught up (why did you rep in then? is that even a question i'm allowed to ask?)
-discredit the ben wagon before supposedly not being caught up, while solidly fence-sitting the wagon itself

yeah i'm not exactly impressed by your opening

Wait what?

"Actively lurking the game"

What? am I supposed to read the entire game before replacing in, it's wrong just to have been casually following it?

"Discredit the ben wagon"

I said that it was easy to see Ben making problematic posts that would get them suspected later, what exactly am I discrediting?

you literally said you won't be playing this game except for every other couple of days, and not for more then a few minutes

you discredited the ben wagon when you said 'oh yeah haha look at this ben wagon i could tell that was gonna be a thing from the getgo its so Obvious and doesn't tell anything about ben'

it's a discredit - ESPECIALLY considering you hadn't read the game yet at that time. I'd expect town to be interested in the why and how of a wagon and not act like you did here.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I'm slightly annoyed at those remarks by what I assume is Ico, and at the moment I'm actually significantly leaning this to be scummy, but I'll get some sleep first because I can just be tired by this point.

goodnight I guess?

I'll look more closely at the setup at some point to talk about the tracker claim from ben, which is one of the reasons I'm not gonna vote yet.

your reads are litterally all fencesitting, and you call them 'good', but i'm the scummy slot

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I'm slightly annoyed at those remarks by what I assume is Ico, and at the moment I'm actually significantly leaning this to be scummy, but I'll get some sleep first because I can just be tired by this point.

so basicly an OMGUS scumread on me? Or do you think I have a scum agenda for this push on you? If the latter i'd love to hear it.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

schiavetti is one of the most obvtown slots in this game

disagree but feel free to call anything "obvtown" I guess.

His slot/infinity is fine to me and that's there's to it at the moment.

why do you tier a slot that you townread (PP) together with another slot that you consider 'fine' (schiavetti) with a slot that you are 'meh' about (NM)?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I'm slightly annoyed at those remarks by what I assume is Ico, and at the moment I'm actually significantly leaning this to be scummy, but I'll get some sleep first because I can just be tired by this point.

goodnight I guess?

I'll look more closely at the setup at some point to talk about the tracker claim from ben, which is one of the reasons I'm not gonna vote yet.

your reads are litterally all fencesitting, and you call them 'good', but i'm the scummy slot

-seCret

Ico, I don't have the habit at the moment of changing my reads too much, and in this game I want to develop this even further.

I don't want to change reads, period.

Reads that change are trash to me, period.

Reads that you can't literally eliminate your own slot in vouch are useless to me, period.

I don't think I can make "obvtown" remarks so easily here. I don't think anything is so "obvious".

i'm not saying you have to change reads

i'm saying you don't have any reads, while making it look like you do

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

btw shirou, have we any experience playing together? honest question

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

it's one thing to not easily have reads - and i can somewhat understand your point about not wanting to reconsider a lot... i guess

but you made a full readslist, and it reads like it is designed like you have reads while actually piling every single slot barring 1 or 2 into a giant null pile and call it 'oh i like my reads here' basicly

it's a giant red fleg in my eyes

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

why am i scum(my) for pushing you here, shirou?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

why am i scum(my) for pushing you here, shirou?

-seCret

The problem isn't pushing me

just stop this pedantic "you don't have reads" as if what I spent the last 4 or 5 hours doing was just nothing.

Most of the time

I always solve in brackets, and it works

.

At the moment it just feels like you saw the opportunity to attack my slot and is doing so by the most surface level arguments.

hmm ok maybe ur town here

well, i absolutely saw an opportunity to attack you and went for it. Not because i'm scum, but because I think I saw scum post scummy scum posts You can call my arguments surface level, but you probably wont see anything deeper then that from me all game. Ever. In any game.

I believe now that you believe you were working towards a solve with that post. Thanks

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Wow Ico, a read list! Waw. real reads as you would say.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

but you made a full readslist

Yes, but not a traditional read list.

This is what if I was half-assing it could look like:

[PP, Schiav, Infinity]
[Implosion]
[NM, Isis, Bridge]
[Ben, Scipio, Secret Hydra]
[Datisi, Aaron]

Wow Ico, a read list! Waw.

real reads as you would say

.

Why I dislike this format:

Implosion chance of being scum drastically increases if Datisi/Aaron is town. I'm not town clearing his slot yet without more confidence on him being town via dayplay.

Isis/Bridge aren't really "null", I don't like having them as null, they've done a lot in the game and the question is I'm not sure how to read it yet.

Ben, Scipio, Hydra are too many names for a solve without even counting one of Datisi/Aaron/Implo, and considering maybe one of Isis, Bridge, NM, Infinity, etc if things come to the worst. Too many scum reads is bad, and they aren't proper scum reads anyway

yet

.

The difference between this kind of list is that you need to constantly update the above with imaginary values of confidence. I always felt indecisive on where to place slots because each had their own tier, but I couldn't possibly make that many tiers.

Firstly I approached trying to insert the "nulltown", "nullscum" brackets. I was still unsatisfied, so now I'm further going into solving by brackets.

When I feel confident on saying "this flips scum", "this flips town" with confidence, I'll say so, but at the moment it's mostly tentative reads just like yours, and the difference is that I think my bracket method works better, especially for me.

I can simply put it into yours format, and later people suddenly go "wait what, wasn't implo town?" or something. I don't want to use it, end of the story.

well, at least i can work with this

Implosion is too high. I'm in need of a reread of his ISO.
Isis and bridge have a lot of content, and the push on Isis should be enough to give you at least some indication on where to put them.
I think ben and scipio do belong down there, and I think I understand why you put my slot next to them. A 'one of these' kind of situation. It's fine.
I really dislike the datisi bottom placement. I think he's town at this point and shouldn't be yeeted day 1 at least. I lack a solid read on AFF, but my gut tells me i don't mind you putting him that low.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

shirou, did you end up understanding the actual reasons i'm pushing ben for?

It's stuff that he hasn't adressed yet.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

shirou, did you end up understanding the actual reasons i'm pushing ben for?

It's stuff that he hasn't adressed yet.

-seCret

I remember you asking about why Ben isn't doing Isis rather than Aaron

I don't understand why you think from his PoV he would do Isis rather than Aaron either

I don't think you've pushed anything original but I can be wrong and have missed it.

none of this is true

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i actually think i overestimated the riskiness of a tracker claim, i think it can be fake, and i know i have always trouble with exeing pr claims, so like, would be appricated if you actually played the game ben, sorry if you're busy or anything

shirou is fine, heard they were really good at scum but that's a problem i'm fine with leaving aside for now, plus their clash with my other head is pretty good looking imo

@shirou could you detail your implo townlean maybe? i'm personally not feeling good about the lot, and a lot of peoples have the same problem so that'd be cool

think my PoE rn is something like {implo / isis / ben / N_M}

oh god i feel like i'm posting completely empty fluff aaaaaaah

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

I also feel that you/ico are asking lots of questions but there's not a lot of, I don't know, substance to those questions?

I just showed why Ico's #809 is a fluff question when it's already in Ben's ISO. I think your questions are better than Ico's for what it's worth, but I guess I would be more surprised on Aaron/You/Implosion being all town rather than Ico flipping town?

Does that make sense to you?

If I had to vote someone right now it would probably be Aaron rather than you or Implo, maybe even Ben or Hydra actually, but yeah.

I'll talk about Aaron later.

assuming datisi is the "you" here right

also that second line is kinda weird with the rest of the post, like "yeah i think my top sr's are more likely to flip scum than someone who i have a gutping on"

unless i'm misundersteanding, the logic behind saying that is off

pedit : i'll check those posts, but gtg so will follow on later

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

I feel like Shirou spent 3 pages agonizing over the fact that he is in the part of his life before he discovered Read Triangles and is not yet in the blissful part of his life after he discovered Read Triangles

wise words

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

i also asked for schiavetto to be activated IC to simplify things

schiavetto doesn't need IC to activate

it's a town slot most likely

-seCret

Does dragon skim more as scum or town?

i'll let others answer this if they please, but i don't think i ever really do the comprehensive reading part very well

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I would rather just evaluate Ben on what he has or not done in this game and proceed from there rather than the mess above hedging on what's optimal or not.

if this is your desire then why are you giving me so much crap when i'm trying to do exactly that

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

skip was the one who called us out first, and while I was slightly annoyed by it, I didn't scumread skip for it. It actually felt an honest take even if I don't agree with it.

Yeah you aren't the only one who noticed this. No offense but their contributions seem...nonexistent almost? Besides that weird progression.

what weird progression

and how the fuck are we not contributing

-seCret

However, ben added this to skip's remark and it reads like it was done in such a way as to try and enable skip to push us over this. Without sticking his own neck out. It's a backseat nudge he tries to give skip here, wrt us. Or at least that's how i read it. Especially considering that his first thought on our 'weird progression' was probably townie anyway.

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

@seCrEt, the middle part of 1181

scum!you is pickier on what fights you take, and especially less interested in drawing the attention on yourself
being assertive like that and 'demanding' someone to engage with you is something town!you does a lot

it's possible my towncredit towards you is a bit 'easy', but it's how i read you

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

alright buddy whatever, cut down the gambit, go play the game, and enjoy your 2 weeks signups ban for pretending to gamethrow

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

And N_M's vote on me is garbage, even for N_M standards. What's the town motivation in trying to rush an execution on an unimpressive slot that just got replaced by an experienced player, before said player can get involved in the game?

"I'm scum but give me a chance"

doesn't happen often but kinda feel this yeah

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I would rather just evaluate Ben on what he has or not done in this game and proceed from there rather than the mess above hedging on what's optimal or not.

if this is your desire then why are you giving me so much crap when i'm trying to do exactly that

-seCret

I'm giving you crap because you were misrepping me and asking questions to ben that already was in his ISO?

When did I say I didn't like your slot because you were trying to eliminate a Tracker claim?

?????

Ico like, what's with you and the reading comprehension in this game, no offense intended?

I don't remember having this kind of issue with you before. I usually agree with your posts on most games although I may remember it wrong. (I remember reading some games where you were other than the completed one and you-know-what, although I can't point out anything specific).

i'm really wondering if my beef with you here is just a major playstyle difference rather then me actually scumreading you

hmmm

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

SS (4) ~ Implosion, Datisi, Shirou, Not_Mafia

actually why the hydra isn't voting here?

or I'm missing the vote because it's after the last VC

I'm not counting Bridge because they are gonna switch to implosion apparently

didn't want an oopsie hammer as I was really looking forward spanking ben's naked behind for a thing he did

but then he claimed and dissapeared without engaging the core of the matter and here we are

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

actually wait

did the hydra just unvote ben upon claim, kept calling ben scum, but didn't place a vote on it?

hold chat.

this is interesting

yeah very interesting

especially if you woulda read the reasons i provided for doing said thing lol

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

For fuck’s sake ico, now that question is weirdly placed

-QB

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

hello y'all, been kinda lazy about posting recently, i'll try to get myself to actually look into what's going on

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Hmm yeah

intellectually speaking this has decent odds of being scum or at least shaking things a bit if my town leans are roughly right

VOTE: Bridges

I think I can read Mena better than skitter here so I do wonder what color of OMGUS they are gonna come up with tomorrow. I think that's what they do regardless of alignment.

The important part being the color.

ooh that's spicy, do you have spicy pings or is it just the neglect?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

i mean, u unvoted but question still stands

petapan probtown also

where to vote, where to vote

- Bottom text

[seCret hYdra]

In fact... I think as scum I would be more likely to give up if I judged my situation irreparable.

Here's an example of me replacing into a dead man walking slot as scum. Obviously, the situation's much different, but I quickly ascertained I had no chance to survive and just tried to set up as many false associatives as I could.

you stated you thought you had a chance to survive earlier though, so why are you using that example ?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Not voting (5) - seCret hYdra, AaronFrost, Petapan, Something_Smart, Shirou

do something.

thx.

sure VOTE: Implosion

really hate the S_S wagon rn so idk, i'd rather see where this goes

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

you stated you thought you had a chance to survive earlier though, so why are you using that example ?

Small sample size, really. I don't have an example of replacing in as scum while close to execution and actually trying to avoid dying. The point with that post was just to say that I'm more likely to give up as scum than as town.

why don't you just say that instead of trying to jusitfy by a game that kinda corresponds but doesn't quite fit?

idk, might be overthinking this

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Not voting (5) - seCret hYdra, AaronFrost, Petapan, Something_Smart, Shirou

do something.

thx.

the other head is coincidentially in a V/LA that matches ico's weekend V/LA but yeah he has showed to be cool with a vote there before

- hYdra
sure VOTE: Implosion

really hate the S_S wagon rn so idk, i'd rather see where this goes

- hYdra

does Ico approve of this vote?

Did you discuss this with Ico?

[seCret hYdra]

Not voting (5) - seCret hYdra, AaronFrost, Petapan, Something_Smart, Shirou

do something.

thx.

sure VOTE: Implosion

really hate the S_S wagon rn so idk, i'd rather see where this goes

- hYdra

does Ico approve of this vote?

Did you discuss this with Ico?

the other head is coincidentially in a V/LA that matches ico's weekend V/LA but yeah he has showed to be cool with a vote there before

- hYdra

(messed up the formatting)

[seCret hYdra]

Not voting (5) - seCret hYdra, AaronFrost, Petapan, Something_Smart, Shirou

do something.

thx.

sure VOTE: Implosion

really hate the S_S wagon rn so idk, i'd rather see where this goes

- hYdra

This feels like the worst vote on me so far. Feels very "I want to wagon but I don't want blame if things go wrong". I think SecHyd-town should have plenty of reason to vote me anyway (I'm in their PoE, they've not said anything positive about me recently the only possible exception being that skit's case didn't convince them, etc) so I feel like town-SecHyd shouldn't need to say "i'm voting this bc I don't like the other wagon". They should just like this one.

Might be griping.

well, i didn't like your wagon i straight up wouldn't vote you y'know?

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

I wouldn't say I'm hunting for SK behaviour in the first place? the point is more -> looking for scum behaviour -> isis making very weird moves -> is isis scum? -> discuss with skitt in pt -> okay, isis prob not scum bc what would she be trying to achieve -> isis continues to just have bizarre takes that don't relate to the game as far as I see it -> this doesn't seem like town behaviour? but also she's not scum? what's going on? -> remember there's a possible 3rd party role that fits this not!scum not!town behaviour pattern

-QB

town / scum does nonsensical behaviour all the time though imo, and i don't see how that even fits the sk playstyle checklist

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

also fuck this game didn't go well. I tried not to be the N1 kill but that failed pretty horribly in retrospect. should have just tried to play my regular towngame.

^ this bit is something I noted before but never mentioned... given people's impressions of how ben played this game, does this sound plausible as an explanation for why he was scummy? It doesn't seem like anyone really discussed it, which is surprising.

in my (granted, limited) experience w ben, he does tend to obvtown/eat nightkills early. i think the explanation is perfectly possible, if he was trying to play lowkey to not get sniped. my problem is that his play... didn't improve after claiming, rather it became even worse.

he didn't even play after claiming, so i'm curious to see what you are calling "worse" there

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

also is s_s town or scum like wtf was all tha
- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

rawr!

what'd i miss?

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Not voting (5) - seCret hYdra, AaronFrost, Petapan, Something_Smart, Shirou

do something.

thx.

sure VOTE: Implosion

really hate the S_S wagon rn so idk, i'd rather see where this goes

- hYdra

This feels like the worst vote on me so far. Feels very "I want to wagon but I don't want blame if things go wrong". I think SecHyd-town should have plenty of reason to vote me anyway (I'm in their PoE, they've not said anything positive about me recently the only possible exception being that skit's case didn't convince them, etc) so I feel like town-SecHyd shouldn't need to say "i'm voting this bc I don't like the other wagon". They should just like this one.

Might be griping.

so we have plenty of reasons to vote you by your own account, yet we are the worst vote on your wagon?
which makes our vote 'the worst' on you because hYdra failed to give proper explanation? sure fam

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

oh, also N_M being scum makes a lot of sense

in any world where 2/3 of the current wagons are scum

-QB

this is true for literally any game i've played with NM and attempting to read them is one of my many many failures on this site

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I'm not committed to this, but it seems the best lead I have at present.

VOTE: PenguinPower

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I'm interested in your reasons for the vote though.

PP has felt more useless than he usually does, to the point where I was pretty surprised to see that he had 144 posts.

Very roughly, my impression of his towngame is that he makes snarky comments that are sometimes productive or good points, and as scum he fades into the background more. He's been present, but not really doing much that feels like it will advance the game, aside from voting/campaigning for votes which is pretty easy for scum to do.

can we yeet this now? (100% serious, i wanna yeet this)

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

Maybe I like that post from SS less than initially but it's still seems so anti-survival to vote one of the few "consensus" town leans in the game.

Maybe it's possible SS didn't notice the consensus on PP since he is in early game.

or he is scum in a pickle who is literally throwing votes/cases at anyone and everyone to see if any of it sticks so he can push it

-seCret

[seCret hYdra]

I am inclined to say I would also lim peta today

-QB

this is take that i disagree with
i have read the scumchat of peta in a game with Ico and this is miles from peta's scumgame (compared to that 1 game yes)

-seCret