Open 820: The Siege of Aurelia — Game Over!

[skitter30]

Heya everyone i'll be around later

@dannfloor regular vla on fridays and saturdays

[skitter30]

I actually think t3 is town and am liking unwnd so far
I'm getting some bad vibes from implosion but i'm not good at reading him so i'm not sure how much stock to put into that

[skitter30]

He's asking who else is going to be widely townread in like a gameshow-announcing voice

[skitter30]

Its in the vibe of like 'america'a next top model'
It is possible i grosaly misread that but that's what i thought lol

[skitter30]

T3 you're a lurksack so if you dont get into Gate I'll treat it as a scumclaim. Scum does not want you at Gate as they either have to swap you (takes away their agency), IC you (gives you a clear when lurkers are usually bait), or try to mislim you (you have the defense that you're bait)

Ssbm have u played witb t3 before?

[skitter30]

Iirc u were scum in a large portion of them and i usually ultimately come around to townreading you >.>

[skitter30]

My reads have not been as good as they usually are recently so i'm a bit hesitant to go to the keep but other than that i dont have a massively strong preference for where i go

[skitter30]

And I think I was scum in at least one and maybe two, and town in at least one.

Eh we'll see how motivated i am to actually check later

[skitter30]

Also, I have a bad feeling about Skitter

Good to know

[skitter30]

I have a bad feeling about dunn

[skitter30]

I try

[skitter30]

Where did you come up with that trio from

[skitter30]

I have a bad feeling about dunn

Good to know

:thumbsup:

[skitter30]

My only objection is that I need to put myself in with penguin and skitter so that we can have a thunderdome.

to be perfectly frank if i get to a good townread on penguin and i'm in the keep with him and someone else i probably vote him

i do want to know why t3 thinks this trio is a good idea tho

[skitter30]

I dont think i gave a townread on penguin yet at all? I said *if* i get to a good townread on him

Historically (other than that one time >.>) i'm p good at identifying town-penguin

[skitter30]

Where did you come up with that trio from

@t3

[skitter30]

I'm not sure i understand how that answers the question ... just a mutual dislike of implosion?

[skitter30]

Ssbm how would u rate ur scumgame? What do u think ur strengths are as scum?

[skitter30]

Ssbm how would u rate ur scumgame? What do u think ur strengths are as scum?

My strengths are bussing convincingly, my weaknesses are being tmi and I sometimes have a hard time staying motivated as scum

Thanks!

Tbh i'm kinda having a hard time seeing u come after t3 this hard as scum

[skitter30]

I think t3 is town here

[skitter30]

Townish: ssbm, t3, maybe unwnd, maybe catboi
Scummish: dunn, implosion

Everyone else: idk

[skitter30]

I would probably prefer gate if all else is equal but people tend to have strong feeling abt where to put me

[skitter30]

*she

[skitter30]

limited access until tuesday

[skitter30]

Well, see, my problem with the whole approach is that kyouko seems to be basing her read entirely on whether T3 submits to her, and I don't find the way she's executing it to look like a genuine attempt to read into T3's alignment.

I feel like she basically feels like t3 going to the gate is best for town as a whole and is therefore trying her hardest to make that outcome happen

I dont think under her worldview she particularly cares what t3's actual alignment is

[skitter30]

My townish pile is similar to skitter's actually, but dropping the "maybe" on unwnd and swapping catboi for Penguin.

I don't know how to read dunnstral at all though.

Upon reflection i want to demote catboi as well.
I actually also like the idea of going to keep cuz i now think t3 is somewhay townie and it'll probablh be an easier one

[skitter30]

What if T3 and I draft our townreads into our locations and the rest end up at wall? And people can Express nays if it looks like one of us is scum trying to draft a townie so that all scum dont end up in one spot?

I was actually thinking of forcing scum yo the wall so this is a decent idea

[skitter30]

My reads are basically like:
Peng
Kyo
skitter
catboi unwnd
SS Dunn
implosion

I'm not ready to call penguin town yet, and i think ssbm is probably the towniesf person in the game

Implosion is giving me bad vibes but i'm not sure i would call him scum

I like the notion lf trying gi force all scum to one place (i
E.the wall)
I'm not sure if i townread anybody undeclared enuf to want to paid up with them just now tho

[skitter30]

I meant that I'm not sure how to meta skitter, my bad. I think she's town for her paranoia on implosion.

Eh i can fake that, dont townread me for that

[skitter30]

Kyouko/T3/Dunnstral is my favorite pairing for the Keep right now

Y

Also, any townpings i had on u for the first couple of pages have vanished

Also this reminds me that you/implo might have some associatives

[skitter30]

I am a male, a geriatric one

That was way different to my mental image of you.

pedit: True. I know I'm town and

I think my play this game is pretty different to my scum meta

.

+1

[skitter30]

I feel decent about Dunnstral

Uhhh i dislike this read

[skitter30]

I was more curious about ssbm and dunn in that trio

Kinda wanto keep unwnd/catboi out of the keep

[skitter30]

I feel decent about Dunnstral

Uhhh i dislike this read

Good to know

I was objecting more to unwnd's reasoning of 'there's nothing remarkable in his iso' bit than the actual fact he feels decent abt u

[skitter30]

Catboi is p scummy >.>

Pedit >.> i think ur scum

[skitter30]

Why did you do that

[skitter30]

I dont know but nothing ur saying feels townie, dislike that you're discrediting ssbm, and i've no idea what the town motivation for that was either

[skitter30]

I feel like that's a spmehat extreme reaction to what i said

[skitter30]

Somewhat ugh

[skitter30]

, if people are going to accuse me of being scum off...basically nothing, I'm going to go to the place where I do not need to prove myself as town. I'm not keen to let a narrative form against me. That simple.

Also:
- wasnt based off of 'practically nothing'
- i hope you're planning on voting t3

I am Unhappy abt this outcome

[skitter30]

Also the fact that your immediate reaction is: oh this would have been so silly to do as scum (twice now)

Makes me feel like you're scum just playing that card

Also, i really, really dont think ssbm's posts are fake, and they feel like legitimate attenpts to gamesolve to me
It feels like she's thought quite a lot abt the optimal placements/strategy for town and is working to realize that vision

[skitter30]

If I'm left at the keep after swaps I'm perfectly happy playing kingmaker. In a sense I've just seized the hammer for myself, and I actually quite like that prospect.

I quite don't

[skitter30]

Wanted people i townread in the keep and i most certainly do not townread u
And again the fact that you keep falling back to 'but why would scum do this' feels scummy
Dislike the fact that you want to take a kingmaker position when t3 is much more tow read than u

[skitter30]

I think the person eho is most town (not you) should get to vote, and if ur scum you wont at all

[skitter30]

I forgot that scum cant vote
If ur pledging to vote i suppose it makes u less scummy but even so i dont think that was a good thing to do

[skitter30]

That's when i remembered

[skitter30]

Penguin is +town i think (?)

[skitter30]

Unwnd/catboi's interactions feel really weird and stilted

[skitter30]

I dont entirely get 293

[skitter30]

Also rhe fact that catboi doesnt get why people may find him scummy is sort of >.>
You're like expecting people to townread you when i dont think you've really done anything to merit that read

[skitter30]

I dont know what he did last time but i also dont know why me suggesging catboi/unwnd should not go to the keep should prompt.that responde

[skitter30]

That wasn't implying a scumread on implosion, it was saying skitter is blatantly scum for how she reacted to my jump.

Ok and i think ur blatantly scum *for* the jump
What would u do if i went to the keep

[skitter30]

I dont really get what you're saying/implying in that post

[skitter30]

I dont know what the scum motivation is but, again, the fact that you keep relying on 'oh but why would scum do this' is scummy, as it feels like you're depending on the fact that scum wouldnt do this to be townread
It, again, sounds like you're scum who purposefully did this to play that card

Also i dont know why town would do that either

Like the whole thing doesnt make sense to me and i cabt really parse the motivation for it. But since you're acting like doing so should give you townpoints by virtue of the fact that scum wouldnt do it, it feels scummy and you did this on purpose to get townread as scum

Like you cant really explain why town-you wanted to do this, each time i ask you keep telling me that scum-you has no reason to do so, and this whole pov doesnt seem like its coming from a town motivation

[skitter30]

I dont really get what you're saying/implying in that post

I don't know, I'm not sure what you think I

could

do in response to you moving to the keep - I think that'd be a terrible play here for you as scum, so it'd be at least somewhat surprising, but I'm not really going to out a read that's contingent on you taking a particular action, that feels both silly and a bad idea.

I mean if you're town and planning on taking the vote there i'm p sure me going there would force you to vote t3 as u apparently think i'm scum
(Whicu for me would be a good outcome cuz i think t3 is town)

From your pov i'm not sure why the immediate reaction isnt just: i will vote t3

[skitter30]

I was p obviously talking abt a universe where you/me/t3 were still at the keep post-swap

[skitter30]

I feel like it should be a p obvious choice from ur pov but ok

[skitter30]

Well i'm incredibly dubious the keep will have a good ending

[skitter30]

How do you lose in that instance

[skitter30]

Lol. Okay. If I'm at the keep and withhold my vote as scum, I still lose though, so why the concern trolling?

You can be all indecisive and refuse to commit
I dint think that alone will immediately cause town to vote town

Idk how you get from 'not immediately voting' to 'scum-me loses' at this stage

We can always quasi-leash you and say something like if you dont vote within a day or something one of the other 2 should vote the third

But without that being set up (and to my knowledge it hadnt been) you could hem and haw for quite a long time without losing

[skitter30]

When it comes to Skitter I don't think I have a sensitivity quite yet to her play even if I've been scum with her before. I think even in adversity Skitter is pretty good at bottling up her emotions, but maybe it's just the way she types. Reading back on each other Skitter says provokes but in my mind I'm just reading it like she's straight-faced and going through the motions. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe tone is a reasonable way of reading her and I don't think her reaction is as striking as catboi's.

So I'm going to flip this around and ask both of you something--

Catboi, what do you think of Skitter coming at you? I believe you know regardless of your alignment that what you did was anti-town. You justify this however and I don't need you to explain it to me. However, I think Skitter right now knows what you did was anti-town and is pushing you for it. Do you think she's just trying to build a narrative or is she just confused; You claim that you know you're town and can prove it.

Skitter, if what Catboi did was anti-town do you think he'd let himself do such? I mean this as scum. My own bias tells me right now no. Catboi to me is not someone who enjoys making anti-town plays, especially not this early as scum. He wants to build trust and make sure he has wriggle room. He's effectively put the spotlight on himself. I don't see the purpose of doing so early.

- when were we scum together >.>
- it apparently worked last time, idk why he wouldnt try that again
- i'm baffled why he would do this as town either
- he's kinda losing trust by taking this tactic, idk how this is gonna help him build trust
- your interactions with him are very suspect and ngl on some level this reads like you defending a partner

[skitter30]

I think dunn's probably town (esp if catboi is scum)
But even so i dislike that he did that
I like ssbm's plan to herd scum to the wall

[skitter30]

@unwnd it was a spiteful and emotinal action
Honestly i'm not sure how much he thought abt it before doing it as either alignment, and i think the actual act itself is incomprehensible and i have a hard time reading into it

If he is willing to set a deadline by which he must vote or have the other players in the keep vote each other i am willing to call him town (albeit making rather anti-town choices)

[skitter30]

I would prefer gate simply because i thinj doing so will make our chances of having 2-1 scum-town at wall that much higher

I think you're town and i know that i'm town so going to wall i think will dilute that chance from happening some more

Pedit i would have preferred that over dunn joining tbh

[skitter30]

I mean i'm trying to decide if that's a quasi-dumbtell or not
T3 requoted the hammer on the prior page so like ig its possible he missed it twice idk

[skitter30]

Like if catboi/unwnd are actually partners that reads like trying to distance in a way that you know wont actually happen since its hammered already

Pedit i wouldnt prefer it from my pov for solving but if people are that suspicous of me i wont object to much

I'm very skeptical we get 2 scum at wall if we do that tho, and that the swap wont be very informative

[skitter30]

Pedit i wouldnt prefer it from my pov for solving but if people are that suspicous of me i wont object to much

I'm very skeptical we get 2 scum at wall if we do that tho, and that the swap wont be very informative

@unwnd
Idk why you going would make me inclined to do so

[skitter30]

I feel like talking about my intentions in that regard would give out too much information

Regardless of the fact of you not townreading me

I mean how are you reading me rn

[skitter30]

I feel like talking about my intentions in that regard would give out too much information

Regardless of the fact of you not townreading me

I mean how are you reading me rn

Unsure which is where Gate helps with that

Wait do u want us to go to the wall or gate, i thought wall

[skitter30]

That's not how i read that, but ok
I'm not entirely opposed to that

Pedit i agree that we should get stuff from ss but not sure he's poe scum

[skitter30]

Ugh i'm having paranoid thoughts of like unwnd/ssbm
I think we may have just lost the potential for 2/1 at the wall

[skitter30]

Well its a paranoid thought but i dont think *too* likely
I'll hold off but yeah i would want gate and i'm incredibly suspicious of both unwnd and catboi

[skitter30]

I think it was more to prevent scum being forced to the wall

[skitter30]

Well if the people i'm scumreading are in fact scum it makes a lot of sense why

[skitter30]

Ugh i'm having paranoid thoughts of like unwnd/ssbm
I think we may have just lost the potential for 2/1 at the wall

Like, unwnd/ssbm both scum? Is the idea that they're going to make it look like scum is being swapped out of the wall when it's actually being swapped into the wall, or something?

Idk, it was the first thought that i had when unwnd took gate

Also your read on me is sort of weird + i'm still not getting Good vibes from you

[skitter30]

Also why do you want a me/you/penguin thunderdome

[skitter30]

I probably would have been happier with you-me-penguin if i could get you to trust me. I still have like some intrinsic paranoia about skitter although I do only see reasons to think she's town so far. Just like, last time I played a 9p setup with 3 scum some things went horribly awry with my reads early and idk how much *exactly* i trust myself and i'm not like, saying i'm going to flip on skitter unless like i'm put in a place with two of my townreads or something. Idk I should probably not go too deep into how my read on her feels right now just bc it could be useful info for scum thinking about swaps.

I dislike this positioning
In general u feel incredibly hollow

[skitter30]

I think it’s the most likely remaining shot at 3 town in one place (at least I think you’re both above random as town and the last person is s_s who is basically at random for town, so maybe I’ll prefer him if he actually does look town after contributing)

I think 2 scum at wall is more important than 3 town there, no?

[skitter30]

I want ss and implosion at wall

[skitter30]

Goodbye to my hero solve. I've clearly gone wrong somewhere but I don't even know where to start.

How

And i would prefer me at gate

[skitter30]

I mean if its me/implo/ss of course i want one of us at gate, how does me wanting gate mitigate that

If anything the fact that i havent *hammered* gate should

[skitter30]

Well the gate currently has ssbm and unwnd
And the options to move there are me, you, implosion and penguin, so those are the options

[skitter30]

Me or penguin are probably the most townread of the lot, nobody keft is really a consensus townread

[skitter30]

And i would prefer me at gate

Between the two of us….why?

i think trying to herd as many scum as possible to the wall is a good idea, and i know that i am town

[skitter30]

it's entirely based on forcing scum to unoptimal places for them, that's the last chance we have for that
playwise i don't have a very strong preference either way; i'm not sure it's a given i'd play better than you at wall

[skitter30]

i don't? i'm not so good at reading him

[skitter30]

it is, as always, possible that i'm thinking of this backwards but if there are 2 scum in the remainder (say for the sake of the argument implo/ss) and they're both in wall one of them would have to swap, so we'd get information from one of the 'scummier' slots moving

pedit i see what you mean, that's a good point too, that's not how i was thinking abt this tho

[skitter30]

i also kinda feel like so long as one of {me/penguin} go to gate i don't have a very strong opinion on anything else outstanding

[skitter30]

i find the fact that unwnd took gate to be rather scummy honestly

[skitter30]

Are we waiting on anything else?

[skitter30]

I think that all scum exept mayhr implosion are already at a location tbh

I dont know if it really matters if i go to gate or wall, but if someone still has a strong opinion abt it still plz say so cuz otherwise i will hammer gate soon

[skitter30]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current makeup of the wagons should indicate that scum has already chosen a spot? See there's 4 left for the choosing and well, scum can lose if they're all forced into one. I don't know if this has happened though, because if I'm scum and I see only one spot is left? I take that last spot just so I don't lose.

Newpaging

And this is sort of how i read u going to gate btw, you did it to prevent groups of scum being herded to wall

[skitter30]

Remind me, is there a particular reason you want to be at the gate?

I think it would be easier to solve since i already think ssbm is town but i dont have a massive feeling either way

[skitter30]

Yes I wanted Skitter at the Gate

Y

[skitter30]

Yes I wanted Skitter at the Gate

Y

I want a read on you? I look at it this way, I either 1v1 you and Kyouko gets cleared

or

Something else happens

This post gives me incredibly bad vibes

[skitter30]

This is not how I would play this game as scum, if you ever need a definitive read on me for future games

Ok this doesnt help me read u here now tho

That post basically reads to me like you're planning on ic-ing ssbm and 1v1-ing me, which is like fine from my pov, but i'm not sure its objectively obvious that this is the outcome

[skitter30]

Well you sound like you think that's the more likely outcome

I look at it this way, I either 1v1 you and Kyouko gets cleared

Even more you almost wrote this backwards, like it sounds like the object of me going to gate is for you to 1v1 me (i.e. i'd have first said ssbm gets and so you have to 1v1 me), you

[skitter30]

Ugh sorry

It should have said: 'ssbm gets cleared and so i 1v1 you' but you wrote it backwards, which makes it sound like in your mind that's the point if me going to gate, for you to 1v1 me

[skitter30]

Yes I wanted Skitter at the Gate

Y

I want a read on you? I look at it this way, I either 1v1 you and Kyouko gets cleared

or

Something else happens

It seems like 1v1-ing me is the point if wanting me to go to gate with u?

I still dont feel like i have a good sense for why you want me to go there

[skitter30]

I'm a little hesitant when i feel like i dont have a good sense for why you want that outcome

[skitter30]

I mean, is it actually important for you to read him right now?

I mean no but it feels like he has some ulterior motive for wanting me to go there

[skitter30]

Would you prefer to be at the other place?

Idk i'm more concerned by the fact that u want me there
I dont want ss or implosion at the gate

[skitter30]

If we cant get 2-1 at wall i'm not entirely opposed to sending implosion to gate as well

[skitter30]

Well that's a conclusion

[skitter30]

So the fact that you + unwnd want me to go to gate is a little suspicous for me

[skitter30]

NEVER MIND the fact that unwnd was open about wanting to go to the gate with you from the moment he jumped there, I've been largely okay with it for most of this time, SUDDENLY NOW it's a big deal???, Yeah, not buying it! ✾(〜 ☌ω☌)〜✾

I mean i've been wanting to go there for quite a while now, but ok

@ssbm u ok to end the phase?

[skitter30]

I'm not really sure what gave u that idea but ok
If everyone is ready to end the phase i'll do it

But i want it noted that i think what you're saying rn is somewhat manipulative and scummy and is in no way alleviating my you/unwnd concerns

[skitter30]

Feels like he's trying to goad me to gate tbqh :shrug:

[skitter30]

Idk
Apparently he thinks i'm not

Either way u ready to end the phase?

[skitter30]

I'm being open that I think it could have been a bluff and she's looking to justify not doing it now.

It is possible I could be being conspiratorial and stupid right now! But that was how I reacted to those posts.

Why would i possibly be bluffing abt such a thing

I've been saying literally all game that while i slightly prefer gate i have no very strong preference. I will happily go to either

You're both overstating my preference for gate and also saying that i dont want to go there at the same time, which seems silly to me. Like saying that i only *said* that i want to go there for Reasons (tm) while saying i really dont

And ssbm pointed out that with who's left it isnt super likely we'll get 2-1 at wall, but if unwnd is scum i can see implosion scum in which case putting him there is helpful imo

[skitter30]

Now I'm paranoid of skitter :\

T3 and ssbm both say they want me at gate and she says she's probably okay with that and then i assume 592 is her saying she's going to go to gate anyway, immediately after that?? unless i'm misreading 592

Implo, no offense, but this seems incredibly hollow

[skitter30]

Everything going on right now feels like pre-phase. I don't townread Skitter but I can't say I scumread her. I will say that her coming conclusions on Me/Catboi is a bit head tilting and her usage of how do I put this? Scummy now ask questions later. She seems really jumpy despite there being a lot of unknown and I'm not really a fan of that approach. Is it confidence, and if so..where is it coming from? I can't read Skitter's tone as I previously said and she hasn't dropped enough inner monologue for me to get a good idea of what she's thinking. The constant 'this is really scummy' feels very slighted and I'm not sure what point she's trying to prove. Calling something scummy does not make it actually scummy, it usually requires a bit more.

i'm not sure how one can be 'jumpy' and 'confident' at the same time
Also do u see how from an outsider pov you/catboi might make sense?
Also if u want me to elaborate on anything you can kinda just ask

~
Ssbm what else are u looking for this phase? I kinda feel like we've reached the point where we're not gonna ger much else out of it

[skitter30]

it's entirely based on forcing scum to unoptimal places for them, that's the last chance we have for that
playwise i don't have a very strong preference either way; i'm not sure it's a given i'd play better than you at wall

@penguin

[skitter30]

And i've recently realized that unwnd/implosion makes sense so sending implosion to gate could also accomplish 2-1 scum and force a swap in that universe (i.e. just moving the 2-1 from wall to gate) so i'm fine with that happening too

Pedit i mean i'd love to hear what catboi is thinking

And agreed unwnd's wall is scummy

[skitter30]

@unwnd r.e. your post:

literally all of it is indecisive and hedge-y; you have almost no firm reads

it's a lot of words that boils down to uncommited 'idk's' on a whole bunch of people:

- catboi basically boils down to 'probably town but possibly preemptive idk his scumrange'
- skitter boils down to a whole lot of (sometimes contradictory) words saying you're not sure
- penguin/dunn lumped together as being 'enigmatic' with a gut-town on dunn
- implo/ss also lumped together as 'i don't have much to say about them'

this is a whole lot of words saying you don't have reads on a whole lot of people

and even the two townreads you try to undermine the positioning of:
- ssbm: call her naive and question her ability/right to be a town leader, and question (and honestly i feel that even if her thought process isn't necessarily optimal she is by far the towniest person in the thread)
- t3: calls the fact that he's townie and townreads ssbm an 'echo chamber'

I read their persistence right now as towny just for how naive it is. Like they aren't just hiding an agenda and letting their thoughts dilute in-thread. The behavior from Kyouko is so self-assured but it hasn't been earned in my opinion. This is not to offend her, but it's like a quasi-town leader. Who exactly made Kyouko leader and why is everyone just letting it happen?

[skitter30]

well then
i guess we'll see if unwnd/implo is a thing

VOTE: wall

[skitter30]

sorry ... he can def explain further but with his vote it's de facto over, we're both forced to wall

[skitter30]

like me voting i'm not sure it actually matters at all, i think we functionally go to wall once the mod shows up

[skitter30]

i mean i was waiting until we were ssbm was got whatever they wanted out of catboi ...

[skitter30]

my vote litearlly doesn't matter once implo picked...

but yeah implo if you'd like to explain that

pedit pp functionally what was the problem with what i did

[skitter30]

ah
ok if that's true my bad
i thought once gate was hammered it was over
my apologies

[skitter30]

i was being told to go to gate???

i mean it wasn't decided yet (and i'm p sure you could see that) but ok

pedit ok. it was a mistake, and i'm sorry that i ended it early (than you would have liked apparently), but i didn't realize it would have ended. def my bad then

[skitter30]

penguin i'm actually kinda confused why you're more annoyed with me than with implo

[skitter30]

ok then, i misunderstood

but yeah implo that was kinda premature
im kinda at the point where a few people seem to be deliberately obtuse and i'm p sure they know better so yeah

[skitter30]

VOTE: implo
Idk why you did this but ok

@ssbm let me know what you need from me

I feel p good abt my reads, and i think this indicates unwnd is scum too

[skitter30]

Honestly i'm feeling p good abt my reads. I think uwnd was planning on 1v1ing me if i had gone to gate yesterday, which would imply the swap was gonna be betwewn wall and keep

That probably says something abt the town-scum distribution at wall-keep at the time but i havent figured that out yet

[skitter30]

I have absolutley no idea and i think he loses this so yeah
Idk what they were thinking

[skitter30]

Also catboi r u still planning on voting first

[skitter30]

Because ssbm wasnt ready to end the day
I was going to when we were ready to end the day

[skitter30]

Because i was trying to tell if we were ready to end the day yet

[skitter30]

I mean - cus, you literally were the reason why the day ended when it did.

I thought gate getting hammered was enuf of a trigger to end the day, i.e. that when i (or implo as the case may be) voted gate the day would end, so i was holding off on the gate vote until we felt the day waa over

I thought when implo voted gate that the day *was* over, i voted wall just to like formalize where i was going, i didnt realize that was the actual trigger

[skitter30]

Also catboi r u still planning on voting first

[skitter30]

Also catboi r u still planning on voting first

To clarify i meant first in keep, not overall

[skitter30]

Mm.

I felt like the weird way unwnd was acting toward skitter made them somewhat more likely to be partners.

Which makes this swap very interesting.

Go on

[skitter30]

Fair enuf but that is what i thought at the time
And fwiw i was talking abt implosion there, cuz i'm p sure he knew that hammering gate was bad from a town pov

[skitter30]

Unwnd why exactly did you want me to go to gate yesterday

[skitter30]

I'm p sure t3 is town in the keep
Catboi voting him would resolve a lot of the issues there. Not sure i know who the scum is but i'm p sure voting t3 wins that section

And at wall still p sure penguin is town

I dont *think* unwnd is scum from my pov (?) but irs possible i'm missing something. I do think he is p scummy tho and had ulterior motives for wanting me to go to gate yesterday

[skitter30]

Sorry to clarify the sentence abt unwnd: i'm trying to sort out if the swap lets me read anything into his alignment from my pov and i dont think (?) I can

I wasnt trying to say i think he's town

[skitter30]

My only objection is that I need to put myself in with penguin and skitter so that we can have a thunderdome.

I think the best thing for me at this point would, incredibly, be a me-skitter-penguin thunderdome at wall and S_S going to gate. That should also have a decent shot at 2 scum in one place, at least I think it still gives a decent shot of an all town wall.

That said I'm skeptical at this point that we're going to be able to read very accurately into a swap. I guess we'll see if we can once it happens. And also we should wait until S_S can contribute.

I have to say that i am utterly baffled abt what u guys are trying to accomplish

This kinda reads fo me like you wanted to end up with me for quite a while? And since the outcome is a 1v1 that penguin is town maybe????

[skitter30]

I want to think about the swaps and their meanings before I say anything

Unwnd i want to know why you wanted me to go to gate yesterday

[skitter30]

I hammered partially because I thought unwnd was acting townier and so I thought there was a decent chance of all-town gate. I guess this is consistent with that. As the day went on I was getting paranoid that skitter was stalling out of obligation and that she was trying to get into gate as scum without any ill will being directed toward her after there had been rhetoric around other people going there. I still didn't really think she was scum but I didn't think it was bad to hammer. The day felt like it had been verging on over for a while to me and I wanted to know what the swap was going to be. Idk. I think it's probably S_S in wall as scum, and I actually am thinking more that it's Dunn rather than catboi at keep but I digress.

- you thought unwnd was townier than ss? Why?
- why am i so interested jn going to gate as scum?
- i'm p sure you are vastly overstating people's desire for you to end up at gate, ans you know that. T3 saying that he wanted you to go there is not a super strong determining factor, and ssbm was very much on the fence. Nobodu else said you should go there as far as i know
- the hammer was p gross and your reasons for doing so are insufficient. You also indicated eod you would explain more post swap
- why dunn over catboi

[skitter30]

I think that keep is probably easier to solve over gate honestly

[skitter30]

I'm going to not have time to properly reread until the morning, but in particular I want skitter/implo to reread and solve in the other locations now that they have a confirmed scum from their POV.

I dont have a full solve bur i'm p sure t3 is town in keep so the scum there isnf super relevant so long as the other town votes him

I have to review/resort wall, i'm p sure penguin is town but i need to resolve my read on the other 2

[skitter30]

Town!implosion knows we were 2-1-0 before the swap so we can eliminate the 1-1-1 in his section.

Sorru this bit i'm not following
(Tallikng from your pov, not mine)

How does town-implosion know that, say, me/ss or me/penguin is impossible

Lets just say me/ss: its 1-2 prior to the swap, and me going to gate makes it 1-1-1

That universe does necessitate town-unwnd tho so i think the rest of the post does follow (?)

[skitter30]

Tbh I'm leaning towards skitter being scum which means unwnd is town, but if I'm wrong we're down 0-1, and we have a guaranteed outcome of 1-0 or 1-1 as it is, so I'll take the guaranteed outcome over my read 10/10 times.

Why?

[skitter30]

Also i think from your pov me/unwnd are possible still?

If unwnd is scum it was 1-1-1 yesterday, and swapping me for him doesnt change that distribution in that universe

[skitter30]

Neither of you will convince me to vote the other before Wall flips, so it would behoove the Town at Keep to wait for the wall flip for the best chances at victory. And any scum at Keep wont vote early either because they would have to hammer a townie.

Ok sounds good. I'm gonna work on re-solving wall
Fwiw (from my pov at least) for me it is between ss/unwnd rn:
- i townread penguin's anger at implo's hammer (dunno why he would be mad that his partner did that as presumably that would be a good outcome for them)
- implo repeatedly wanted a me/him/penguin oairing and idk why he wants his own partner in the mix

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:
Sure

[skitter30]

I think scum generally tries to use me for TvT when I'm obvtowning, so that was part of mystrategy in storming the Gate this game, to bait scum into ICing me. If I were scum!you I would put myself into Gate with Implosion so that Kyouko would hammer Implosion, because I think my posting D1 indicates I would go that direction.

Editing for clarity:

If I were scum!skitter:

I would try to end up in gate with IC!Kyouko and town!implosion.

Because I (Now I'm speaking from my POV again, not scum!skitter's) think that my own posting would be interpreted by scum as leaning towards hammering Implosion over Skitter if forced to choose.

I'm p sure that i would not be that confident that scum-me wins this 1v1 with u as ic
Like its possible i decide to force it anyways but i sont think this would be my optimal outcome

I'm having a hard time modeling what scum-me would have done here actually, i dont feel like i have enuf info (i.e. who the other scum are) to be able to answer this

I'm also not sure why i would feel the need to force the 1v1 at gate, or to make you ic, and i also think that if i'm scum and have the ability i probably swap you out of gate altogether and make like t3 ic or something?

I dont know. I'm having a hard time thinking through this because i keep going: well what if i was scum with inplosion? Well what if instead i was scum with ss? And the answers sprt of change depending on the exact scenario. And i have to walk through all the scenarios to figutr out what i would do and it's hard to keep track of all the moving parts

[skitter30]

- i townread penguin's anger at implo's hammer (dunno why he would be mad that his partner did that as presumably that would be a good outcome for them)

You don't think he would do that to distance?

Maybe that's not how PP operates, but that's the kind of thing I'd expect from a setup where scum can't directly bus.

I'm p sure the anger was genuine and believe this question is now moot as well

[skitter30]

I'm very confused abt what scum were thinking

[skitter30]

vc

Yeah I mean this kinda feels like a forced switch into an all-town wall but why would implosion deliberately cripple his team like that?

Pedit: big wall I did not read yet

I've no idea, i have no good explanation for the swap/implosion's hammer, especially in an unwnd scum world

[skitter30]

I kinda think scum thought they lost the keep already?

[skitter30]

I'm not sure he's expecting to, like, win this honestly

[skitter30]

I mean i was actually talking abt implosion ans i literally cant flip you

For the lior sixth time why did you want me to go to gate yesterday

[skitter30]

Unwnd how are u reading me rn?

[skitter30]

From my pov:
Implosion is scum
Unwnd is much more likely to be scum than ss
I think both implosion and unwnd have bad associatives with catboi, namely the mysterious townreads they kept professing on him

Also i think that most townies have a similar reaction to catboi taking keep as i did: extreme surprise/annoyance. Pp, ss, and t3 all had similar reactions to me, and implosion/unwnd had very ~santized~ reactions

[skitter30]

I think both implosion and unwnd have bad associatives with catboi, namely the mysterious townreads they kept professing on him

Wasn't implosion agreeing with the scumreads on me?

Honestly looking thru his iso quite a lot of it is calling me town and agreeing with my assessment of things, but making sure to note the ocassionsl paranoia, so yeah

But r.e. specifically you i thought it eas a lot more pronounced, it seems he only really called you town on like p2 that was what i was remembering
And after that called you scum

[skitter30]

to my posts in the last game of this, and he feels, on some level, like he is really trying to convince her he is town

I feel like this too
Honestly in my mind the game feels somewhat solved:
-implo at gate
- unwnd at wall
- vote t3 at keep

[skitter30]

I am a very spiteful town player and will do things just to prove a point.

When T3/Kyouko both started to engage the thread as if I were scum for basically unilateral reasons it caused an uptick. T3 has no fucking idea how I play scum and certainly Kyouko doesn't.

I dont get how that proves anything, and i do not think of u as a spitefil town player either

[skitter30]

skitter hesitates going to the gate because of her playstyle. My read on her is she's not the kind of player who would do something "anti-town" like picking a location before everything is like, fully-everyone-100%-in-agreement-decided as either alignment. I think her as town wouldn't do that and her as scum has to imitate that.

This is true enuf, its nai for me

[skitter30]

Ugh - this has not been helpful so far.

I dont really feel like i have much to add at this point, from my pov the game is close to solved: implo at gate and someone should vote t3 at keep

Idk who tje scum is at keep but i feel like it doesnt matter since t3 is town and voting him wins that location

[skitter30]

Scum team is T3, Something_Smart, and then one of skitter/implosion.

Luckily, it doesn't matter how hard scum shades me. I believe T3 is clearly scum in my group from their posts today, which is what I was waiting on.

Plz elaborate on scum-t3

[skitter30]

The fact that both people at keep are scumreading t3 js troubling. @catboi why is t3 scum?

[skitter30]

to my posts in the last game of this, and he feels, on some level, like he is really trying to convince her he is town

I feel like this too
Honestly in my mind the game feels somewhat solved:
-implo at gate
- unwnd at wall
- vote t3 at keep

Exact opposite of my reads so you're probably scum

I mean if ur reads are opposute of me i feel the same of u

[skitter30]

The fact that both people at keep are scumreading t3 js troubling. @catboi why is t3 scum?

[skitter30]

The fact that both people at keep are scumreading t3 js troubling. @catboi why is t3 scum?

Why is it particularly troubling, if at least one of us is town? I sort of didn't expect this to be the play Dunn would make as scum. I'm mostly suspicious that gate-scum is trying to steer me in the wrong direction, given y stated willingness to vote T3 on day 1. I'm not particularly sure I can actually read him well, as either alignment a lot of what he says is going to be inexplicable.

I think the easiest way to win keep is for you or dunn to vote t3. At least in my solve that will win keep for us

I'm also a little troubled that you're not as willing to vote rn as you were saying you were when you took keep

Also both me and implo are saying we both think t3 is town so like you also have a town who is saying this

I honestly cant read between you/dunn but if you're town i think the best thing you can do is try to sort out t3 because i believe he isnt too hard fo read

And yeah he's inexplicable but like i'm p sure this isnt how scum-t3 approaches this game - he's fairly sedate, taking things as they go, and his reactions to things in thread is fairly natural. He isn't making outlandish plays to manipulatw the game in (what he believes to be) a +scum direction, which is how he tends to play scum

He's too go-with-th-flow to be scum here i'm p sure

[skitter30]

Unwnd how are u reading me rn?

Why is it so hard to get you to answer things >.>

[skitter30]

Ugh i feel like that's a bad idea

[skitter30]

Idk which of u 2 is town and i dislike that catboi is asking you to vote when he made a massive thing justifying taking keep by waying he would vote first, it looks to me like he isnt living up to the ome thing he kept sayig he would do so that people would know he is town in keep

[skitter30]

Like by having dunn/t3 vote we're basically giving catboi a pass

[skitter30]

And i think that's ridiculous

[skitter30]

Uh if you're scum this is your optimal outcome and town-you aparently wanted keep to 'control your own destiny by being kingmaker'

I'm just gonna say when i said this exact outcome would happen (you hemminf and hawing and letting other people vote) you derided the notion thay you would do such a thing because you wanted to vote

So ya
It looks like you're wiggling iut of it to me

[skitter30]

One of u 2 to vote t3

~
Catboi you literally cant spend half a game arguing scum-you wouldn take keep because you're locking yourself in be the first voter and then tell me i shouldnt scumread you for asking other people to vote first

Because yeah i do view that as you trying to get out of doing the one thing you said you would do to make you taking keep not as bad as it looked at first glance

[skitter30]

If i recall correctly you told me not to 'concern troll' when i said you would do this

[skitter30]

I mean if you're scum you literally cant

[skitter30]

Voting you or you voting thrm?
I don't want either to vote you and if you're town i want you to vote t3 over dunn

[skitter30]

Plus, without much else to read Dunn on, I think it's helpful to see if his offer of voting is a bluff or not.

He also didnt offer to vote? Where did that even happen

[skitter30]

Catboi you're kinda avoiding the crux of my issue here ...

And thay was 2 irl days ago

[skitter30]

As either alignment I have motivation to act selfishly here if the opportunity presents itself. I don't think it's hard to grasp why I'd hesitate to go down the route that I know scum (you or implo) is presenting to me.

Uh you're conflating two things here?
I want you to vote t3
On top of that, i just want you to act like you're expecting to *vote* because you're acting reluctant and that is what scum-you does here

And mostly i'n just kinda annoyed that you were acting like i was being unreasonable when i said you would try to get out of voting, which is precisely what you seem like you're doing

[skitter30]

Catboi you're kinda avoiding the crux of my issue here ...

And thay was 2 irl days ago

I mean, my issue here is that if you're scum you have evey reason to want to steer town toward an incorrect conclusion, and that's kind of what I'm worried you're doing.

And i mean, my issur here is that if you're scum you have every reason to want to encourage other people in keep to vote first, and that's kind of what i'm worried you're doing

On my end, i've explained why i think t3 is town and you're not engaging with that, but rather choosing to reduce his play to being 'inexplicable' without really trying to read him imo

Your entire reluctabce for t3 is not based on an actual read of him

[skitter30]

Uh in what way am i manipulating you r.e. t3, i'm asking u to actually read him in his play

And again gonna reiterate once more that i think given that apparently town you wanted to control your own destiny by being kingmaker or whatever nonsense you were saying, in that specific cotext wanting to be voted here is significantly more scummy than townie even if in a vaccum town wants to be voted

Pedit i dont believe i am manipulating here so no

[skitter30]

I think that's an awful solve and am apparently just going to be incredibly annoyed as i watch this olay out

[skitter30]

Idk what you're trying to say

[skitter30]

And i'm p sure that t3 voting dunn is a better outcome than dunn voting catboi

[skitter30]

and unwnd not going anywhere quickly in this game is probably just to not look the same way she did when she was scum last time, for anyone else who was in that game and saw her do it. From what I understand S_S wrote the setup so maybe he was mod in that game, and he is the connection to that game. If he is the only connection to that game, it is highly likely that scum!unwnd means town!S_S

See, you had me going with the unwnd scum theory because I thought it was plausible, and then you make this post where you make a hypothesis based on arbitrary assumptions that are untrue whilst not bothering to do the bare minimum of research to see that unwnd, S_S, Dunnstral, and me were all players in the previous run of this game, (and I have referred to seeing it from the other side), and so I think posts like this are just meant to look impressive in terms of looking solvey while actually being utterly hollow and worthless and showing a complete lack of thought.

or, or, or... you read my post, and see that I specify that I am uncertain - "if he is the only connection to that game." I have admittedly not looked at that game, because I said "if". You would know I have not looked at the game, because you were in the game and know that S_S is not the only connection

I struggle to see the town motivation in making arbitrary theories based on easily disprovable assumptions. However, I think there's actually a fairly decent chance you might be town here regardless.

Ssbm you had the exact same fear as me and catboi is doing *exactly* this ...

[skitter30]

I think the person eho is most town (not you) should get to vote, and if ur scum you wont at all

Why would the person who is most town not simply want themself to get voted? This doesn't make a lick of sense. Of course, if I am scum there is no reason for me to vote,

but you already have my word that I will vote

, and if I go back on it I obviously won't get voted myself, which would guarantee a town win in the event I am scum.


So, again, I very much fail to see what your problem is supposed to be.

This is worthless, because at the time you vote, the Keep game ends. As scum, you can just say you're not sure yet, and the burden still falls on the other town to identify one another. Or, as scum, you can be swapped out so you don't have to follow through. As town, you can be swapped out to make it appear that you're scum that is trying to not follow through on your word here. So we can't put any stock in this.

Lol. Okay. If I'm at the keep and withhold my vote as scum, I still lose though, so why the concern trolling?

Wrong post, i meant this one ^

[skitter30]

Never mind. Thought I caught something but it doesnt check out. You've used the phrase before, plus I'm ICed so town!you is still motivated to mimic me

I dont even know what you're talking abt

[skitter30]

I didn't expect to be given an opportunity. But I'm not sure if the opportunity is real or just an attempt to get me to change my mind.

What happened to 'picking keep to control your own destiny'?

[skitter30]

He offered it 2 days ago irl so i'm kinda confused ehy you're jumping on this *now* and acting like this is an importang thing to resolve when uou didng seem to care abt it when he actually did

And i think that if you actually wanted fo go to keep to vote yourself you would be more focused on making that happen

[skitter30]

Him casting a vote on someone else, to clarify

[skitter30]

hi i accidentally just played a board game for 4 hours and need to go to sleep now >.>

i caught up and now actually think dunn might be the best vote in keep??? or at least i think i would rather catboi vote dunn than dunn vote catboi if they're not voting T3. but i am coming around on t3-scum as a possibility

Actually, Penguin, Dunn, Catboi: how would you guys feel about me hammering skitter at gate as the first play? I think I'm decided.

Looking for any objections to the lim and objections to the order in which we resolve locations

What do u do upon my townflip

[skitter30]

hi i accidentally just played a board game for 4 hours and need to go to sleep now >.>

i caught up and now actually think dunn might be the best vote in keep??? or at least i think i would rather catboi vote dunn than dunn vote catboi if they're not voting T3. but i am coming around on t3-scum as a possibility

Also: why is t3 scum?

[skitter30]

I still think ur town and implo's iso is full of emptu wishy-washy hedging

Still think the best way to resolve keep is for u to be voted

[skitter30]

Very nervous, but only because I haven't actually reread skitter. Her posts certainly haven't made me think town. But that last post from implo didn't really inspire confidence in me either. What's got you so decided?

Skitter feels like she's trying to manipulate me rather than persuade me. Implosion feels like he's putting.effort into solving the other areas, skitter not as much.

implosion flipped on his read of me after Dunn and catboi both expressed a scumread of me but skitter held strong in her read which makes me think town?

skitter holding on to her read of you after toDay's play makes me think agenda, not town

A) before you hammer i very much eant to talk about what happens afterwards becaude i am not going to be here and i'm worried abt what you lot are going to do next
B) how am i being manipulative
C) i am baffled that you're looking at implo's posting and think that he's solving anything given that he's being i NC redibly wishy washy and hedgy
D) why would my read on t3 change today, i don't believe either dunn or catboi have been particularly townie

[skitter30]

The reason is the dynamics right now. Essentially the way I'd expect scum to play keep is like, for the long game. I'm just not sure how to square Dunn's play right now with being scum; you and T3 both obviously want to be voted (which ofc town should want to be) but Dunn doesn't, and I think a sort of lack of self-advocacy earlier could go either way (hence the arguments yesterday about your play) but at this point I don't know what it accomplishes as scum. Obviously one answer is it gets posts like this to be made but I'm not sure I buy that level of WIFOM. This is coupled with T3's play today being more lackluster than yesterday, I think. I think right now I'd kind of want to save keep for last; if I'm right that it's skitter + S_S in the other two areas (and if like, we get one of them wrong) I think I'd still want T3 as the vote, but if it turns out that the distribution is 1-1-1 pre-swap (i.e. if unwnd is scum) then I'd consider that as circumstantial evidence that T3 is scum, since I'm not sure why skitter/unwnd would be the swap if T3 is town. Actually I'd kind of consider that just like, evidence that Dunn is town in general because if the scumteam is skitter/unwnd/dunn then I have no idea how the hell scum would arrive at the conclusion that they should swap in that way.

This whole thing is different than what he was saying lie on friday and id just aligning with ur reads - how is this solving? He's just changed his universe to match with yours

[skitter30]

All's good <3
Sorry for the tunnels in you guys

[skitter30]

Thanks for modding, Dann!