Open 825 - PYP X/Y: HoS_S [game over!]

[House]

There's nothing compelling or convincing that I could tell you at this stage. I just got a towny feeling reading her posts up to that point.

Sure. I don't need compelling/convincing anyway, I just wanna look at the thought processes.

Any thoughts on ManateeGal's reaction (or lack of one) to her wagon?

-Harvey Specter

Frozen scum. The most recent pop-in was pretty blatant.

With the way site meta seems to be going lately, i can buy this.

VOTE: ManateeGal

Oh, and hi. Y'all won't see too much of me through the week, but I'll be around.

[House]

Oh, and for anyone wondering why i picked 4 (I remember someone askeda general question about picks), it's my favorite low level number and i wasn't concerned about rolling PR because i don't want my possible miselim for low content hurting town.

[House]

Oh, and for anyone wondering why i picked 4 (I remember someone askeda general question about picks), it's my favorite low level number and i wasn't concerned about rolling PR because i don't want my possible miselim for low content hurting town.

Feels like this is trying too hard to justify yourself.

I feel like this is fine, but dropping a vote on Manatee without comment on the quickly formed counterwagon is what feels a bit off to me...?

-H

Except for the fact it wasn't without content, whatevs.

[House]

Oh, and for anyone wondering why i picked 4 (I remember someone askeda general question about picks), it's my favorite low level number and i wasn't concerned about rolling PR because i don't want my possible miselim for low content hurting town.

Feels like this is trying too hard to justify yourself.

I feel like this is fine, but dropping a vote on Manatee without comment on the quickly formed counterwagon is what feels a bit off to me...?

-H

Except for the fact it wasn't without comment, whatevs.

Edit. FU Autocorrect.

[House]

I find it interesting that, prior to my vote on her, Manatee was an empty ISO with nothing of consequence coming from that slot.

Looks to me like she saw an opportunity to attack a vulnerable vote on her due to the fact i had not been participating in the game until that point, and jumped on it.

Gamma is also sus for calling her response to the wagon towny. A cursory glance at her ISO confirms every word in my post.

[House]

VOTE: House
I think manatee's handling of the wagon on her seems towny

same

this is an honourary vote on House but I don't feel like letting the enchant wagon fizzle yet.

You might as well vote me, you've just removed any pressure your vote otherwise may have carried.

[House]

VOTE: House
I think manatee's handling of the wagon on her seems towny

same

this is an honourary vote on House but I don't feel like letting the enchant wagon fizzle yet.

You might as well vote me, you've just removed any pressure your vote otherwise may have carried.

don't tell me what to do!!! if you want votes on you vote yourself

Don't misrep my statement.

A more accurate assessment of my mindset is that i don't give a fuck off i have votes on me.

[House]

VOTE: House
I think manatee's handling of the wagon on her seems towny

same

this is an honourary vote on House but I don't feel like letting the enchant wagon fizzle yet.

You might as well vote me, you've just removed any pressure your vote otherwise may have carried.

don't tell me what to do!!! if you want votes on you vote yourself

Don't misrep my statement.

A more accurate assessment of my mindset is that i don't give a fuck if* i have votes on me.

Edit

[House]

basically I think what House did when he popped in was kinda wolfy

This is a disingenuous statement from Gamma, btw

He never rushes to make these kinds of calls on me when he's town.

[House]

I repeat, don't tell me what to do. I negligently misrep when and wherever I please. Is this conversation going anywhere?

Depends, are you done wasting your vote on a wagon you no longer support?

[House]

just you wait pal

And what the fuck is this post supposed to accomplish?



I've already stated that i don't give a fuck if i get voted. When i flip, though, i hope people remember 385, because you're acting scummy as hell.

[House]

can you dictionary check yourself on "disingenuous"
I'm completely fine listening to you but that looks like a throwaway meta case against gamma basically saying he gut scumreads your pop-ins right? Can you descend to the level of us mere mortals and explain what about that actually strikes you as disingenuous?

I have no incentive to address your questions.

Perhaps if i believed that you actually think i might be scum, i might be persuaded.

[House]

also why are you voting manatee out of those on your wagon..

Stupid question is stupid.

See all the answers you could get if your vote aligned with your proclaimed suspicion?

[House]

just you wait pal

And what the fuck is this post supposed to accomplish?



I've already stated that i don't give a fuck if i get voted. When i flip, though, i hope people remember 385, because you're acting scummy as hell.

I can't say more due to ongoing games but you're dead wrong if you think I'm not just a little more comfortable with sorting you early

I'm done talking to you for the rest of this one simply for bringing up those two words while referring to spring me

That's dirty play and I'll have none of it.

VOTE: Gamma

Vote fucking parked until one of us is dead.

[House]

just you wait pal

And what the fuck is this post supposed to accomplish?



I've already stated that i don't give a fuck if i get voted. When i flip, though, i hope people remember 385, because you're acting scummy as hell.

I can't say more due to ongoing games but you're dead wrong if you think I'm not just a little more comfortable with sorting you early

I'm done talking to you for the rest of this one simply for bringing up those two words while referring to sorting me

That's dirty play and I'll have none of it.

VOTE: Gamma

Vote fucking parked until one of us is dead.

Edit

[House]

Reported for continuing to refer to ongoing.

Think I'm fucking playing? Fuck that.

[House]

house, on a serious note, i think you might benefit from giving the thread a minute to breathe.

I'll go one better.

The reason i was voting Manatee was because that's where my vote already was since my first post.

[House]

can you dictionary check yourself on "disingenuous"
I'm completely fine listening to you but that looks like a throwaway meta case against gamma basically saying he gut scumreads your pop-ins right? Can you descend to the level of us mere mortals and explain what about that actually strikes you as disingenuous?

When Gamma is actually town, he doesn't jump to conclusions on a read on me because he knows I'm not the towniest town that ever towned.

He's using an excuse that he knows i cannot address due to site rules, and that's some shady b/s that i won't tolerate.

If anyone thinks that i, as scum, would lock myself into a VT claim my second post into the game, there's just no reasoning with them.

[House]

VOTE: Gamma

House, why did you move away from your main on Wake? I thought your playstyle there was quite smooth and buttery

Lol

[House]

vote count 1.06

mod notes

~ boop

flavour

this is a hella mood

Idk, i can relate.

I was bored af in school because i always read ahead and had the curriculum sorted long before the teacher introduced it, to the point where i felt school was a waste of time and started skipping to hang out with friends.

Teachers asked my parents to let me skip grades, but my mother was all, "no, he needs to be around children his own age"

[House]

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

i dont know what youre trying to get at here

You seem to have a problem with the Enchant wagon.

I was toying with the possibility that Manatee & Enchant might both be scum during my catch-up, but ultimately dismissed it as being unlikely on general principle.

[House]

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

i dont know what youre trying to get at here

You seem to have a problem with the Enchant wagon.

I was toying with the possibility that Manatee & Enchant might both be scum during my catch-up, but ultimately dismissed it as being unlikely on general principle.

What's the principle?

2 scum blundering into competing wagons on d1?

[House]

VOTE: Gamma

House, why did you move away from your main on Wake? I thought your playstyle there was quite smooth and buttery

Lol

House is not Wake.

Pretty sure he was trolling my signature.

[House]

2 scum blundering into competing wagons on d1?

See situation room. 3 scum were wagoned d1.

Just because one wife gives her husband carte blanche on extramarital affairs doesn't mean wives sign off on such behavior on a regular basis.

[House]

Anywho, I'm not particularly invested in a read on Enchant. Their posts weren't particularly notable to me during my catch-up, and I've been engaged elsewhere in the thread.

[House]

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

It's shit play to refer to ongoing games when addressing a read on somebody because anything that person says in response can lead to a ban.

I don't give a damn if Gamma gets mod confirmed as all innocent child at L-1, I'd hammer him just for ban baiting me.

[House]

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

It's shit play to refer to ongoing games when addressing a read on somebody because anything that person says in response can lead to a ban.

I don't give a damn if Gamma gets mod confirmed as all innocent child at L-1, I'd hammer him just for ban baiting me.

House, people make mistakes. You're overreacting here. I'd hate to miseliminate you here, but I will for the game state.

It's not a mistake. It's behavior that happens all the time.

I can't remember the last game I've read that didn't have a mention of "ongoing game/s". It's bad in general, but when it's being used to prop up a read, it's bad faith because the person being shaded cannot give a fair response without getting themselves banned.

[House]

getting that mad about it that fast in conjunction with dismissing two other people and parking there is ??

Clearly, we haven't met.

Hi. I'm House.

[House]

getting that mad about it that fast in conjunction with dismissing two other people and parking there is ??

Clearly, we haven't met.

Hi. I'm House.

To clarify, considering I'm coming back from an indefinite ban and can be kicked back out at the drop off a hat, ban baiting me triggers me, hard.

[House]

i appreciate you stepping back when you did house. there was definitely at least an element of misunderstanding, and it's cool that we've moved past it so quickly.

(just to be clear this is me-as-a-user saying this, not me-as-a-mod.)

I've said all i have to say about it. I'm done.

Hopefully it doesn't get dredged back up again.

[House]

Ugh dissolving wagons.

Now I have to effort.

You could always just plop a vote down on me.

I'm a magnet for lazy votes.

[House]

I mean - if you’re the leading wagon as of the next vote count I will.

Let's say that i am.

[House]

Oh look, a...

[House]

Hm, nothing here.

You robbed me!

Scum.

[House]

MM and House team confirmed.

I wish i was as towny as MM.

[House]

Tell me Penguin, why are you intent in being a follower?

Do you trust other people's judgment more than your own? I wouldn't criticize you if that's the case. I'm merely curious.

[House]

I mean - if you’re the leading wagon as of the next vote count I will.

^ follower.

[House]

that aren’t*

are*

[House]

I mean - if you’re the leading wagon as of the next vote count I will.

^ follower.

Physician, heal thyself.

[House]

Why so evasive?

It's not a terrible thing to be a follower. I've done the same. Why try to deny it, and evade the subject when i point out precisely how you're being one?

[House]

you aren’t trying to engage in good faith.

Please point out where you get this idea, considering i was very clearly nonjudgmental in my question.

[House]

I don't have a strong read there at all

IME, null reads tend to land on scum more often than not.

[House]

MM and House team confirmed.

I wish i was as towny as MM.

could you talk to me about your townread on MM? i'm going in circles there.

Candor, active pushes, not following the crowd, poking players with a stick, but not in a way that feels loaded.

[House]

How many games have you played since your return?

Not many.

[House]

Not trying to dodge, just don't know the exact number. Just that it hasn't been many.

My last question to you was sincere, by the way.

As were the ones before that, even if you disagree.

[House]

How many games have you played since your return?

Not many.

Perhaps consider your experience isn’t applicable with the current player base.

Maybe so, but it's all i have to operate from.

[House]

My last question to you was sincere, by the way.

As was my prior statement.

That statement was not in response to my question.

I'd really like to know where you get the idea that I'm engaging you in bad faith. Apparently, I'm miscommunicating, and I'd like to know how so i can fix it.

[House]

Maybe so, but it's all i have to operate from.

It's not a terrible thing to be a follower.

I don't trust people, so... damn the luck.

[House]

Maybe so, but it's all i have to operate from.

It's not a terrible thing to be a follower.

I don't trust people, so... damn the luck.

I've done the same.

Notice the difference.

Past tense vs present tense.

It's not that hard if you think about it.

I trusted players that i had built up a rapport with. Since my return, 99% of those players are gone, and my rapport with those who are still here still needs to be rebuilt.

It's not rocket surgery.

Now, how am i engaging you in bad faith?

[House]

Mmhmmm. Nice try.

No, the nice try is to you for trying to bait me off Gamma.

If he isn't going to have actions taken against his ban baiting from above, I'm staying parked here.

[House]

Because you felt it was better to make a witty remark instead of actually efforting.

That's a terrible assumption. Had my interest been only in making a witty remark, i wouldn't have relentlessly hounded you about it afterwards.

[House]

Nice skipover.

This is why your bad faith. I tried. Good night.

Hold on... what did i skip over?

[House]

I think Thor might be a good wagon. Thor ignoring my reachout is bugging me. He's a big stats guy...until asked to follow up on it.

His hop on to Gamma did strike me as odd considering he didn't offer any other reasons or support for the wagon.

[House]

Perhaps you should attempt to learn how I form my opinions rather than cast descriptors to me that aren't [sic] applicable.

I’m feeling nice for some reason so I will actually repeat the obvious statement which you aren’t trying to do.

I didn't skip this. I MISSED it.

Rude assumption is rude.

To respond to this, that post looked to me to be an evasion, as what you are saying there directly contradicts your willingness to vote me "if I'm the leading wagon".

It's a natural inference to make, so i don't understand why you're so twisted over it.

[House]

I'm not feeling so that great about my interaction with Penguin.

Sure, i poked him. That's part of the game. Thing is, I went out of my way, multiple times, to avoid abrasiveness, and he turned evasive & abrasive over innocuous questions.

If my perspective was skewed, he could have easily told me how instead of getting crappy with me.

Feels to me like he didn't like our interaction and has been trying to "turn it off" before suspicion sets in on him.

[House]

Feels to me like he didn't like our interaction and has been trying to "turn it off" before suspicion sets in on him.

Yes, he doesn't like your interaction and has been trying to turn it off. I sincerely doubt this is because of his alignment.

I recommend you just drop it.

You seem to understand his perspective better than I, can YOU tell me how I came across in bad faith?

He made a clear "I'm going to follow the crowd" post, then got evasive when i asked him about it.

How does that make ME into the bad guy, here?

[House]

Draft positions of 45 scum in 15 PYP games:

1st - xxxx
2nd - xxxxx
3rd - xxx
4th - xxxx
5th - xxxxxx
6th - xxx
7th - xxx
8th - xxx
9th - xxxxx
10th - xx
11th - xx
12th - x
13th - xx
14th - xx

(most of the credit goes to hoopla)

Positions 2nd, 5th, and 9th...

Miss Midnight 8
Harvey and Haley 69
Enchant 4

Why didn't you list me along with Enchant? I also picked 4. Couldn't we have been listed the other way around?

[House]

Penguin's 534 implies he is doing something deliberate rather than blindly sheeping. Which is a post you later say you missed, but from his perspective, it looked like you were just ignoring it.

Looks dodgy to me. I'm more of a straightforward kind of guy.

My apologies to Penguin.

[House]

Penguin's 534 implies he is doing something deliberate rather than blindly sheeping. Which is a post you later say you missed, but from his perspective, it looked like you were just ignoring it.

I mean, i replied with snark on his typo, but i missed whatever implication he was going for in the first part of the post.

[House]

There is an inherent negative connotation in calling someone a "follower", and I think it would be bad faith to not recognize that.

All I'll say is that i believe this is a matter of opinion.

Following is not, in and of itself, a Bad Thing. There are very few things that are inherently Bad Things.

Context matters. That's what i was looking for.

[House]

I agree it was subtle, so I believe you guys were genuinely talking past each other.

Now that we've cleared that up, let's all hold hands, do a little dance, and vote Thor!

I'd like to see his response to 578. That has me curious.

[House]

Mmhmmm. Nice try.

No, the nice try is to you for trying to bait me off Gamma.

If he isn't going to have actions taken against his ban baiting from above, I'm staying parked here.

Do you have a link to the post(s) that you were referring to here? I don't see where this happened.

Paranoia, mostly.

I was frustrated with the lack of responsiveness and actually on the post page to submit my vote for him because of his evasiveness when i changed my mind and said that instead.

[House]

I think Thor might be a good wagon. Thor ignoring my reachout is bugging me. He's a big stats guy...until asked to follow up on it.

Yeah, posting the most common positions for scum and then who that would correspond to in this game in 326 felt like a really bad attempt at shade.

I'd say his shade, if that's what it was, was ineffective, considering it looked like he stated a townread on you and has not voted any of the 3 players in that post.

Confusing, for sure.

[House]

Except for the fact it wasn't without content, whatevs.

Can you quote that comment, please? I meant specifically about Enchant.

-Harvey

I haven't voted for Enchant... but i approve of the wagon on them.

I voted Manatee. It's literally the first post in my ISO.

[House]

There's nothing compelling or convincing that I could tell you at this stage. I just got a towny feeling reading her posts up to that point.

Sure. I don't need compelling/convincing anyway, I just wanna look at the thought processes.

Any thoughts on ManateeGal's reaction (or lack of one) to her wagon?

-Harvey Specter

Frozen scum. The most recent pop-in was pretty blatant.

With the way site meta seems to be going lately, i can buy this.

VOTE: ManateeGal

Oh, and hi. Y'all won't see too much of me through the week, but I'll be around.

[House]

@House: I acknowledge your comment on Manatee! My tiny concern was about how there was an Enchant counterwagon that formed just before that, and you made the Manatee vote without mentioning your approval of the Enchant wagon.

Enchant wasn't even on my radar... which isn't a great sign for them from my perspective.

And, they haven't posted for the last 12 pages... during "work hours", i get that (my posting is greatly restricted while i work), but it's pretty late now, yeah?

[House]

Also, House, you were Shortaru right? Remember me by any chance?

-Harvey

Vaguely, maybe? But it WAS years ago sand my memory sucks.

[House]

Enchant wasn't even on my radar... which isn't a great sign for them from my perspective.

And, they haven't posted for the last 12 pages... during "work hours", i get that (my posting is greatly restricted while i work), but it's pretty late now, yeah?

Sure, but I'm clarifying my stance about the specific timing of your two posts back then. Enchant may not have been on your radar because of their posts but the wagon forming

on them

was blatantly there.

Also I'm not really grokking the House-tw-Gamma interactions a few pages after that. Where's my morning coffee?

Yes, it was years ago, I just remember it was fun

-Harvey

I saw the vc. I just didn't care to dig into it at the time because i was supporting a townread.

[House]

Harvey (and anyone else), i don't think anything productive will come of rehashing the me/Gamma drama wholesale, but if you have specific questions, I'll be happy to address them.

[House]

Note that it wasn't simple speculation about the setup.
Thor was making alignment reads based on it - why can't that be considered alignment-indicative?

What alignment reads did he make, exactly?

The only thing i found didn't match up with his stated reads or votes.

[House]

Draft positions of 45 scum in 15 PYP games:

1st - xxxx
2nd - xxxxx
3rd - xxx
4th - xxxx
5th - xxxxxx
6th - xxx
7th - xxx
8th - xxx
9th - xxxxx
10th - xx
11th - xx
12th - x
13th - xx
14th - xx

(most of the credit goes to hoopla)

Positions 2nd, 5th, and 9th...

Miss Midnight 8
Harvey and Haley 69
Enchant 4

You're right, it wouldn't be fair for everyone else, I'd win it too easily

Town are better at making me smile or laugh, so I have my townreads now, Harvey/Harley

Miss Midnight
the worst
Bee

Little problem, there.

VOTE: Gamma

House, why did you move away from your main on Wake? I thought your playstyle there was quite smooth and buttery

More damning, as Gamma is not 2nd, 5th, or 9th. He's 12th. Also, this vote comes after his 2nd, 5th, or 9th declaration, as opposed to his townread of MM which came before that post.

Scum probably went low to get better roles to win, so I estimate 2 or 3 scum in these players:

Bee 5
the worst 3
Cat Scratch Fever 3
Enchant 4
House 4

Of the available wagons, I'm surprised he's not parked on Enchant with all his analysis pointing right at them.

[House]

I'm so gonna laugh if Thor & Enchant both flip red.

[House]

i'm just a bad duck

With all that fur you have, it's no wonder that you're a bad duck.

[House]

Yes, I made a resolution before joining the game that I'd not hopelessly refresh the page every minute and just appear twice a day for a while.

I hope you have better luck with your resolution than I'm having with mine.

[House]

2300, bedtime for me.

I probably won't be back on until tomorrow evening. Try not to turbolim anyone.

[House]

This is me popping in and contributing nothing of value.

[House]

Consider that we know for a fact scum didn't choose 1, or 2, or 4.

Wait, how did that come to pass?

[House]

This is me popping in and contributing nothing of value.

mood

Nope.

[House]

wdym

That you are incorrect.

[House]

That's not how it looks.

Considering you were quoting my post when you were stating how you felt, it looked to me to be an opinion of my post.

[House]

I guess i should have searched the term on Ye Olde Alta Vista before making assumptions.

Last i saw it used, it came across as, "you're in a shitty..."

[House]

Random contentless post.

[House]

I just woke up and thought I'd check in, but couldn't think of anything to say,

Still shaking the cobwebs out.

[House]

Hi. House why aren’t you voting Thor?

It feels weird that you two aren’t voting each other but you made a comment about laughing if Thor and Enchant flipped scum so idk if that means you scumread them. :<

But the wagons aren’t dissipating and you don’t seem inclined to fight to live. You just feel inflammatory.

Ice already explained why my vote is where it is.

I have zero desire to remain in a game where a player is allowed to base his entire push on something i can't even respond to without getting banned.

The fact he's lying through his teeth is why i refuse to move off Gamma. If he was actually town, he'd have moved his vote ages ago.

So, yeah, go ahead and eliminate me based off of outside influence. Because that's totally within the rules.

[House]

Hi. House why aren’t you voting Thor?

It feels weird that you two aren’t voting each other but you made a comment about laughing if Thor and Enchant flipped scum so idk if that means you scumread them. :<

But the wagons aren’t dissipating and you don’t seem inclined to fight to live. You just feel inflammatory.

I've* already explained why my vote is where it is.

I have zero desire to remain in a game where a player is allowed to base his entire push on something i can't even respond to without getting banned.

The fact he's lying through his teeth is why i refuse to move off Gamma. If he was actually town, he'd have moved his vote ages ago.

So, yeah, go ahead and eliminate me based off of outside influence. Because that's totally within the rules.

Edit

[House]

hey house. who are gamma's partners?

Idk. I'm not feeling Manatee or Enchant, personally.

[House]

just you wait pal

He telegraphed his intent. Don't give me that bullshit.

[House]

Not to mention, if you're willing to trust Gamma's read of me over Titus, who knows me 20x better than Gamma... well, piss off.

[House]

Not to mention, if you're willing to trust Gamma's read of me over Titus, who knows me 20x better than Gamma... well, piss off.

I don’t know if this is at me but my vote on you isn’t because of Gamma’s read...

It’s for stuff like this I guess? And you called votes on you lazy earlier too.

Your excuse for voting me is even lazier.

It's not scum-indicative to get pissy about being voted for "ongoing games" and being unable to point out how it's a load of bullshit without getting banned.

That ruins the entire fucking game for me, and i have zero desire to effort when this kind of crap is allowed to happen.

[House]

I think he might be mad about that regardless and also he’s been kind of mad a lot of the game or at least irritated :<. Do you think that if he’s been able to sustain it it’s less likely to be fake?

He's much better at burning bridges that weren't there rather than building them, he's not giving much reason to anyone to not vote him which shows the lack of a scum motive

Wow, you do know me.

[House]

I have a suspicion on Thor's main/previous account, but i am not going to say.

If I'm right, it's pretty obvious, though.

[House]

VOTE: Miss Midnight

?

Manatee or Enchant would be better votes if you're determined to let a player hide his lies behind a claim that can't be addressed without rulebreaking.

[House]

IDK I go the opposite direction with this and think he’s burning bridges to say look how much I’m fighting and no one is on my side but I’ll let him be for now because I don’t want to get into it since he’s not going to move his vote. :/

Call the bluff IMO, see what happens as he gets closer to lim range - will he change his vote? Will other players suddenly attempt to push a counterwagon?

-Harvey

Nope.

As I've already stated, i have zero desire to remain in a game where such dirty tactics are allowed.

Vote me, idgaf.

[House]

Manatee or Enchant would be better votes

Were you scumreading Thor at any point?
Wanna talk about Thor?

-Harvey

Not really, no... I toyed with the idea briefly, but he has zero motive as scum to actively attempt to derail my wagon in the way that he did, by posting details about me that he could have sat on as scum.

If my wagon is derailed, it might land on him or one of his buddies if he's scum, and i don't see him risking that as scum when he's already under suspicion himself.

[House]

That's fair. But why would ManateeGal be a good vote? I read her nonchalance to the wagon on her as pretty towny, don't you agree? Additional reasons to townread her have also been listed in this thread.

Not really, no.

Her ISO was straight trash up until my vote on her, them all of a sudden she digs into me because my vote was the easiest to attack since it was in my first post of the game.

Scum often "town up" when their wagon gains traction.

[House]

Scum often "town up" when their wagon gains traction.

You mean like, TRY to start acting townier, or SUCCEED in acting townier?

Potayto, potahto

Whether it succeeds or not depends on the gullibility of the players.

[House]

What I want from you, is to convince me house is a good vote.

IDK I go the opposite direction with this and think he’s burning bridges to say look how much I’m fighting and no one is on my side but I’ll let him be for now because I don’t want to get into it since he’s not going to move his vote. :/

Call the bluff IMO, see what happens as he gets closer to lim range - will he change his vote? Will other players suddenly attempt to push a counterwagon?

-Harvey

*shrug*

[House]

House, why you think i am mafia?

You have a high fluff to content ratio, and you're open to voting everyone you haven't arbitrarily townread, which you've given no reason for reading as town for most of us so you can flip your reads on us without having to explain why.

[House]

I'm liking Thor, Titus, the worst, and H+H as town, off the top of my head.

I don't see Titus trying to talk me down off Gamma as scum. It would be easier and completely justifiable to just jump on my wagon on policy.

I like H+H's efforting. His push on me does not feel like it's loaded with an agenda.

the worst is my shakiest townread, but i wouldn't vote there today at any rate.

[House]

Wouldn't the most natural scum response to be relieved and the most natural town response to be suspicious?

(Not the only response, of course, but in my experience scum are generally happy to get townread even when it's not deserved, whereas I as town in that situation might be concerned that Titus was fabricating reads.)

Scum often question empty townreads. It gives them more credibility, and if the other player provides reasons after their question, it bolsters the read for others to sheep.

I've done it many times, and seen it done many times.

[House]

Stop undermining my townread of you, Thor.

Activity is not necessarily alignment indicative, it's also playstyle and/or circumstance indicative.

That's trash logic.

[House]

In other news, Thor has proven that the mod is town, so that's nice i guess.

[House]

That's trash logic.

Is this why it undermines your townread?

No.

[House]

Why, then?

He posted a wall of text in what looks like an effort to be productive without actually contributing to the game.

[House]

Did it not bother you the first four times he did that?

That shit was setup spec.

I'm less than clueless about setup spec in this game.

Activity theorizing, however, I'm very familiar with. I'm a spammy motherfucker as either alignment and have always been that way, so it's something i see a lot of discussion about.

[House]

Also, if it's an effort to be productive, even if it fails at that, what's wrong with it?

Sim doesn't have motive to contribute to the game, but they have motive to APPEAR to contribute to the game.

Not that one post flips my read of him, it's just disappointing.

[House]

Also, if it's an effort to be productive, even if it fails at that, what's wrong with it?

Scum doesn't have motive to contribute to the game, but they have motive to APPEAR to contribute to the game.

Not that one post flips my read of him, it's just disappointing.

Edit

[House]

Pagetop!!

-H

I guess you're town!

[House]

Meanwhile I can fully agree with house after the gamma spat, using ongoing is a dirty tactic because frankly we can go look for games and it brings OGI into this game.

The crap part is that if players were to do that, it would support every word I've said against Gamma, but it's not like i can actually ask people to do that, and they can't say that's why they changed their mind on him even if they did

THIS IS WHY IT'S FUCKING CHEATING.

[House]

Scum doesn't have motive to contribute to the game, but they have motive to APPEAR to contribute to the game.

Sure, but town also has a motive to contribute which in turn makes them appear to contribute. Why do you think it was the appearance of contributing rather than actually contributing?

Already explained.

[House]

@House: Using my gut combined with stats is when I see the best results for my reads, I've refined this over a long time of playing

I know this.

My point is, the stat you've chosen is irrelevant at best.

As SS pointed out, if activity is what you're after, there's a link at the bottom of every page that shows how many posts every player has made in this thread.

Pagetop spec just fuels pagetop sniping for whatever reasons the players may have, and I'm sure the mods probably won't appreciate that.

[House]

Already explained.

That it fails to contribute? Why does that mean an attempt wasn't made? Shouldn't it be evident that Thor believes these weird theories are productive?

Not really. I give him more credit than that.

[House]

This is Town Thor.

As scum he suddenly turned passive and boring in our game.

I don't believe he would act differently if he is scum from start.

Actually, not a terrible take.

[House]

boop?

You're town!

[House]

Sheeping Something_Smart
UNVOTE:

-Harvey

I don't believe you believe that.

[House]

boop

Oh cool, you're town!

[House]

Enchant

Solid choice

[House]

It's difficult to act perfectly naturally when it looks like the game is headed in the wrong direction for you as scum

... OR TOWN.

PR's have motive to stay alive too, especially on D1.

[House]

It's difficult to act perfectly naturally when it looks like the game is headed in the wrong direction for you as scum

... OR TOWN.

PR's have motive to stay alive too, especially on D1.

True, but I'd rather sift through <Earnest town unnatural play vs Scum panic play> as opposed to <town chilling vs scum chilling>.

-Harvey

How can you categorize earnest & unnatural together? That doesn't make any sense.

I think the more likely scenario is that earnest town is at their most natural, and that different perspectives aren't alignment indicative.

[House]

How can you categorize earnest & unnatural together? That doesn't make any sense.

We're thinking of variant definitions for "natural", I guess. I mean in the sense of deviating from how you'd play without pressure. I believe that deviations in town play and scum play, while both might be different from usual under pressure, have differences in that town know they're being wrongly limmed.

-Harvey

Fair, but this would require a good amount of meta to be reliable simply because of the wide variance in playstyle and personality between players.

[House]

Cool. If Enchant votes me, the 4 of us can sing, "hail, hail, the scum's all here"

[House]

VOTE: Enchant

*prays this isn't a mistake*

What swayed you too change your vote?

Not that i disapprove, mind... I'm just curious.

[House]

If Enchant gets to 7 votes, i WILL hammer that wagon without warning, so i suggest he treat L-2 as L-1 with intent.

Day 2, i will return to parking my vote on the cheater.

[House]

If Enchant gets to 7 votes, i WILL hammer that wagon without warning, so i suggest he treat L-2 as L-1 with intent.

Day 2, i will return to parking my vote on the cheater.

Why will you hammer without warning?

The only way I'll come off Gamma is to end the day. And the following day, i go right back.

[House]

In other news, it seems someone has forgotten 399.

I didn't let that to be an asshole, i posted it to minimize the shit flinging that would inevitably happen if i didn't make that choice.

[House]

In other news, it seems someone has forgotten 399.

I didn't post that to be an asshole, i posted it to minimize the shit flinging that would inevitably happen if i didn't make that choice.

Edit

[House]

*praying flea is vig*

[House]

I don't play with cheaters.

[House]

I can't say more due to ongoing games

Cheating.

Anything i say in direct response to this would get me banned. And you damned well know this, just like you damned well know that if I were able to address what you're referring to, i would easily be able to {snip to avoid ban hammer}

The fact you refuse to even consider that stark reality is how i know you're just scum looking for an easy excuse to vote me.

[House]

I don't play with cheaters.

If he were cheating, he'd have been banned for it. What he did is within site rules. I agree that it was gross, but not as gross as the way you're acting.

Do you think it was actually scummy or are you just voting him out of spite? Because if it's the latter, then uh, I've got bad news about who's bringing in outside influences...

Cheating is anything that gives an unfair advantage, that's the fucking definition, regardless as to whether there's a rule in existence or not.

[House]

It's not unfair though. You could say Gamma is scum because of ongoing games too, and he wouldn't be able to respond.

So if we're playing Monopoly and i swipe $500 from the pot when you're not looking, it's not cheating because you can swipe $500 when I'm not looking, too.

Totally.

[House]

It's not unfair though. You could say Gamma is scum because of ongoing games too, and he wouldn't be able to respond.

So if we're playing Monopoly and i swipe $500 from the pot when you're not looking, it's not cheating because you can swipe $500 when I'm not looking, too.

Totally.

[House]

Wee double post

[House]

So if we're playing Monopoly and i swipe $500 from the pot when you're not looking, it's not cheating because you can swipe $500 when I'm not looking, too.

Not by your own definition!

A more standard definition of cheating at a game means breaking the rules of that game, but that's apparently not the one you're using here.

Anything used to gain an unfair advantage is cheating.

Even by the boards own rules, he's "skirting the rules" simply by mentioning the term in a game, and "skirting the rules" & "rules lawyering" (angling for loopholes) are both actionable under whatever arbitrary circumstances the mods decide.

Ban baiting should absolutely be formalized as an infraction, but I'm not playing with someone that uses those tactics.

[House]

What do you mean by unfair?

(Side note: if this conversation is annoying/distracting, feel free to break it off whenever)

Please break it off now, all 3 of you.

Cool with me. It's tedious repeating myself.

[House]

I'm 90% confident Thor is partially memeing and chuckling at how people respond to his posts

-Harvey

This feels cheeky to refer to a partner like this.

This is true. Nice observation.

[House]

I'm 90% confident Thor is partially memeing and chuckling at how people respond to his posts

-Harvey

This feels cheeky to refer to a partner like this.

This is true. Nice observation.

I'm struggling here b/c aspie. I'm not sassing by asking this question.

What do you mean by cheeky and why are partners unlikely to do it?

Cheeky is kinda light-hearted sass, not in a malevolent way, like one guy greeting a friend, "what's up, ya asshole?"

Scum tend to be a little more guarded in their interactions with each other and about their buddies.

[House]

He already reported it and is upset I didn’t get more than a warning

I was actually kind of pissed because i thought nothing at all happened.

UNVOTE:

I wasn't looking for you to get banned over it or anything.

[House]

VOTE: Enchant

Yep, I'm good voting here.

[House]

VOTE: harvey and haley
Idk about Enchant but I feel this is a decent vote seeing as I’ve seen like a few people express suspicion toward this slot and I also suspect them

What did you think of my case on them?

[House]

House, why you think i am mafia?

You have a high fluff to content ratio, and you're open to voting everyone you haven't arbitrarily townread, which you've given no reason for reading as town for most of us so you can flip your reads on us without having to explain why.

This seems like solid reasoning at least
I’ll still stay on H+H for science (aka leaving the potential for a counterwagon)

Fair, i mean, i can't really blame you for not wanting to go straight from voting me to voting WITH me after the crap I've put you through.

Sorry, man. I'm just really touchy about my status and anything that i perceived to be a threat to my ability to continue playing here sends me over.

[House]

i dont like thors pagetop post but what i dislike more is house's constant signalling about how wrong it is

What do you dislike about Thor's pagetop post?

[House]

i dont like thors pagetop post but what i dislike more is house's constant signalling about how wrong it is

Also, you may have misunderstood my intent.

I was happy with leaving it at the response i first gave. S_S kept badgering me about it and making me draw it out kindergarten style.

[House]

its stupid

How is it stupid?

[House]

i mean i shouldnt need to lay out how pagetops specifically arent AI when we have other metrics that make way more sense to determine activity in relation 2 scumminess

So you agree with me, but hate that i said it?

[House]

i mean i shouldnt need to lay out how pagetops specifically arent AI when we have other metrics that make way more sense to determine activity in relation 2 scumminess

So you agree with me, but hate that i said it?

well i think the fact you kept coming back to it after it had happened to signal how wrong it was instead of engaging in other ways feels performative

Let's examine that, shall we?

Why, then?

He posted a wall of text in what looks like an effort to be productive without actually contributing to the game.

Did it not bother you the first four times he did that?

That shit was setup spec.

I'm less than clueless about setup spec in this game.

Activity theorizing, however, I'm very familiar with. I'm a spammy motherfucker as either alignment and have always been that way, so it's something i see a lot of discussion about.

Also, if it's an effort to be productive, even if it fails at that, what's wrong with it?

Scum doesn't have motive to contribute to the game, but they have motive to APPEAR to contribute to the game.

Not that one post flips my read of him, it's just disappointing.

Edit

Scum doesn't have motive to contribute to the game, but they have motive to APPEAR to contribute to the game.

Sure, but town also has a motive to contribute which in turn makes them appear to contribute. Why do you think it was the appearance of contributing rather than actually contributing?

Already explained.

@House: Using my gut combined with stats is when I see the best results for my reads, I've refined this over a long time of playing

I know this.

My point is, the stat you've chosen is irrelevant at best.

As SS pointed out, if activity is what you're after, there's a link at the bottom of every page that shows how many posts every player has made in this thread.

Pagetop spec just fuels pagetop sniping for whatever reasons the players may have, and I'm sure the mods probably won't appreciate that.

Looks to me like i didn't "come back to" anything.

I was answering questions that S_S was asking, and there was ONE post that i clarified the read directly to Thor.

I am not seeing what you're saying at all.

[House]

boop

Oh cool, you're town!

house im talking abt these

Oh, that's just snark.

[House]

My toes are cold.

[House]

I think Thor, Bee, Heley and Helay, MM, House townie enough to pass.

Murder everyone else and we win.

VOTE: Cat

With such a wide pool of "murder everyone else outside of these 5", why did you choose to vote Cat?

[House]

I think Thor, Bee, Heley and Helay, MM, House townie enough to pass.

Murder everyone else and we win.

VOTE: Cat

With such a wide pool of "murder everyone else outside of these 5", why did you choose to vote Cat?

Why i should voted anyone else?

It's a bit late in the Day to be claiming RVS.

There have been tons of AI posts.

[House]

I think Thor, Bee, Heley and Helay, MM, House townie enough to pass.

Murder everyone else and we win.

VOTE: Cat

Let's try this a different way...

Why do you consider these players town?

[House]

It's not unfair though. You could say Gamma is scum because of ongoing games too, and he wouldn't be able to respond.

So how do you defend against "i have ongoing reasons to suspect you."

I get where you're coming from and share the frustration, i do...

But que sera.

I think it is healthier for the game if we just leave that subject in the past.

I sincerely apologize to everyone for harping on it as long as i have.

[House]

Thor is town, because of... Why i need it explain, just look. You scumread him simple because he "doesh't play like normal town", but you forget, everyone have different town play.

Several players are "looking" and consider him a worthy vote. What do you see that they don't?

Also, i am not one of those players. I've been townreading him for a while.

[House]

Bee not townread now. Probably i am hypocrite, but she certanly doesh't care at all who is elimmed. As long as it's not her of course.

I mean, yeah... a little.

If it's not acceptable to you for her to do this, why are you surprised that a wagon built on you?

[House]

I played with him.

As scum he is passive junk, even if he tried to told otherwise.
Here's he is funny.

So, meta.

Okay, at least it's something for people to chew on.

Thank you for that.

[House]

I'm really not feeling town from ManateeGal.

VOTE: ManateeGal

Her ISO prior to my vote was absolute junk.
Her vote on me was opportunistic.
Going from voting me to voting with me after one of her points against me was invalidated seems sus, considering that point was not what drove her to vote me in the first place.

[House]

As a guy that has barriers to communication myself, i am a bit sensitive when it comes to others who have similar struggles, whether that be ESL, Autism, age difference, or what have you.

I think Enchant is attracting votes due to a breakdown in communication. When I can draw answers out, they add up better than my initial impressions of his posting.

[House]

Did you call me autist.

No. I made no assumptions about you. I merely listed a few different reasons folks may have difficulty communicating.

That list was not meant to be all-inclusive.

[House]

Nothing wrong with being neuroatypical

True.

[House]

I also believe that scum would be less likely to shade someone for doing something that they know they are also guilty of doing, to the point where they draw attention to it, themselves, and not have reasons for why their behavior is different on some level than the person they're shading.

[House]

As much as I love crickets, I've heard enough of them for now, so I'm going to ask a question...

Whole this may seem like an attempt to kick off RQS, it's not. This is just one question, and hopefully it could have a positive impact on the game.

That question is:

What are your thoughts on only listing your top 2-3 interests in elimination instead of posting entire reads lists?

Personally, I'm all for it, and I'll explain why...

If several town have the same players in their top tier, those players become bullet magnets. By only posting scumreads, it keeps the strength of high townreads obscured by mingling them in with lesser townreads, which could save their lives for ELO.

While, yes, it would deny information to town, i think top townreads are more informational to scum than town.

[House]

Whole this may seem

While*

[House]

Long day at work, today. I'm tired.

[House]

I'd agree that house stepped it up

, though I'll admit I'm not really a fan of his vote on me. In most of his other content I either agree or find the process servicable so im not going to let one piece taint completely my viewpoint.

Enchant is still doing pretty meh. I'm voting him just for pressure at this point but it doesn't appear effective and I'm really waiting for more from him so I can formulate a push or move somewhere else.

Stepped it up how? I feel like you were voting him just a few pages ago, so I'm interested in what changed your read there.

This post is relevant to my interests.

[House]

How... underwhelming.

[House]

How... underwhelming.

I should clarify.

i mean i voted house in 333

so a long time ago with a lot of house posting in between. huge amount of content to change my opinion. theres nothing specific that changed my mind on him just as i mentioned seeing him step up

Reading this post sucks from both perspectives.

If scum: weak excuse to townread me that can be overturned with minimal reason; denies town reasons to consider me town. +scum

If town: lazy, uninvested in the game. -town

I can't find a reason to like this post.

[House]

Not a fan of 1123, but that's just a disagreement with logic; not particularly alignment indicative.

[House]

wane

I have to be honest Gamma, i was not a fan of 334, and i don't mean because it included a vote on me.

I strongly disagree that Manatee had done anything even remotely town by that point. She was mostly absent until i popped in with a vote on her, them she pounced on me like she saw a vulnerable player.

[House]

Not a fan of 1123, but that's just a disagreement with logic; not particularly alignment indicative.

Which part doesn't follow logically? To me, it made sense that a scum!Manatee would have someone who wanted her dead early wagoned and be able to vote there without a lot of scrutiny? It's a lot easier to fake than going on someone else, especially given Midnight's absence.

Scum distances & buses.

I've run buddies up as scum early in the day before, because townies always get distracted by the next shiny thing to come along.

[House]

Not a fan of 1123, but that's just a disagreement with logic; not particularly alignment indicative.

Which part doesn't follow logically? To me, it made sense that a scum!Manatee would have someone who wanted her dead early wagoned and be able to vote there without a lot of scrutiny? It's a lot easier to fake than going on someone else, especially given Midnight's absence.

Scum distances & buses.

I've run buddies up as scum early in the day before, because townies always get distracted by the next shiny thing to come along.

Do you think Miss Midnight does it in the manner she did? It feels out there to just say "frozen scum, pile on the votes, let's kill."

I think bussing is something that happens early but it doesn't feel like that wagon was one scum on another. It's also a bit on the nose to see your partner not doing anything and go 'frozen', kind of like HH wrt Thor.

Unless an active scum is frustrated with an inactive buddy and feels there is more value in town cred for pushing the wagon on a scum flip than there is in carrying dead weight.

[House]

Fair.

[House]

Good posting from Penguin, pretty bad posting from Gamma.

VOTE: Gamma

House, why did you move away from your main on Wake? I thought your playstyle there was quite smooth and buttery

Let's talk about this vote.

VOTE: Thor

MM, what happened between these two posts that made Thor's vote for Gamma worthy of a wagon on Thor?

[House]

I think Thor knows @titus

Interesting that Gamma comments about his suspicion that Thor knows Titus here, but...

I think Thor might be a good wagon. Thor ignoring my reachout is bugging me. He's a big stats guy...until asked to follow up on it.

Yeah it looks like filler

... seems to miss that Titus is quite familiar with Thor here.

[House]

how is that missing that Titus knows Thor?

You don't address her knowledge of his playstyle at all.

(Yes, they do know each other)

[House]

well I'm just chiming in with my perspective on his posts there

Without noting the familiarity between them in that post.

*shrug*

Just interesting.

[House]

Townies have a tendency to townread defenses of themselves, there's a cognitive bias against seeing reasons that someone defending you would be scum

You missed some context, there.

It wasn't that he was defending me. I know what white knighting is.

It's HOW he was defending me.

[House]

Townies have a tendency to townread defenses of themselves, there's a cognitive bias against seeing reasons that someone defending you would be scum

You missed some context, there.

It wasn't that he was defending me. I know what white knighting is.

It's HOW he was defending me.

That doesn't really make a difference to the point that I was making.

I operate under the assumption that players prefer clarity.

Maybe that's just a personal preference that i project onto others.

[House]

Don't take it so personally.

Clearly, we haven't met.

[House]

Just stating that it doesn't make a difference to the point that I was making. Sometimes clarification would. This time, it didn't.

I would have thought that it might have, if you're trying to sort Thor.

I wasn't sure about who he was until his defense of me where he leaked knowledge of my meta (though it is years old, it was accurate as of the last time we were in a game together).

As scum, he could have sat on that knowledge and left me in the dark, as i was not making any assumptions about his main (even though it's quite obvious now that I'm 99% sure who it is, now).

Defending me the way he did (instead of making some generic "townread"also defense) outed information about him, which he'd have no motive to do as scum.

[House]

This last line here. Seems to me to be mildly suggestive of someone who doesn't really believe in the read that they're voting.

Meh. We were in a pissing match against each other. You could have easily pulled a post about me referring to my vote on Gamma and said the same thing.

I don't think he was actually scumreading me, and i was only voting him out of spite... but that's old news.

[House]

Question. Do you think that other people in the thread took what Thor said or revealed about you and incorporated it into their reads on you in a significant way?

Though his defense of me wasn't directly referenced, that is the point where my wagon began falling apart as players started looking elsewhere, so... I'd say that it had some effect on it at the very least.

[House]

We don't need an ironclad case D1 just >rand scum.

I'm not a fan of this statement.

Not that i disagree about not needing an ironclad case on d1, just that the way it's put across as an, "any lim'll do" kinda vibe.

[House]

It makes it look like he was seeking to leave a comfortable votepark, rather than actually threaten me.

He may have been. Given the circumstances, that alone is not scum indicative.

[House]

I'm not a fan of this statement.

Not that i disagree about not needing an ironclad case on d1, just that the way it's put across as an, "any lim'll do" kinda vibe.

You can disagree with it for sure, but it's probably game-philosophy indicative and not alignment indicative. I say this because this seems consistent with how Titus normally thinks (though I don't remember her saying this specifically), and it also happens to be my philosophy.

Fair point.

[House]

As I was saying earlier, it feels lazy and devoid of any further thought.

I mean he specifically referenced the existence of further thought... why not ask about his other reasons, instead of assuming he has none?

This isn't 20 questions, or an interview. I agree that it's good to ask people questions to actually see what they think when sorting them. But what someone doesn't post is just as much evidence for their alignment as what they do post. Sometimes, it's actually a lot more evidence.

Ew.

This post gives me the icks.

[House]

He may have been. Given the circumstances, that alone is not scum indicative.

Sure.
Enchant also goes from "Not much" (344) to "Idk" (1009) to "Why not?" (1037)
Manatee goes from "Don't wanna weaken the wagon" (328) to "Manatee's handling of her wagon seems towny" (344) to "TR starting to wane" (1128).
Neither of these trajectories look any impressive either.

Enchant read it's waffle-ish, but given that it's d1, that is whatevs.

I truly loathe his progression on Manatee, though. That has bothered me for a long time.

[House]

As I was saying earlier, it feels lazy and devoid of any further thought.

I mean he specifically referenced the existence of further thought... why not ask about his other reasons, instead of assuming he has none?

This isn't 20 questions, or an interview. I agree that it's good to ask people questions to actually see what they think when sorting them. But what someone doesn't post is just as much evidence for their alignment as what they do post. Sometimes, it's actually a lot more evidence.

Ew.

This post gives me the icks.

The basic point is undeniable. You probably agree with me. Obviously it's a good thing to ask people to elaborate on their thoughts. If you're expecting some behavior or content from someone as town and they don't display it, that's a reason to scumread someone. Lack of content is as much evidence as some content is. I don't think any of this is controversial, or contradictory.

The way you put it across makes it sound like it's acceptable to just scumread someone because they're not being transparent with their thought processes, and sometimes there is a protown reason for that.

Seeking clarity is always ideal. A person's words should absolve or condemn them, not their lack of words.

Without their stated opinions/thoughts/beliefs/etc, we're only projecting what we want to believe to be true, and that is not protown.

[House]

Enchant read it's waffle-ish, but given that it's d1, that is whatevs.

Doesn't it seem like a pattern of him simply piling on popular wagons?
See people suspecting H+H -> Vote them
See people wagoning Enchant -> "idk" progresses to "why not" and then "probably"
See people start to wagon Miss Midnight -> "ngl I feel like miss midnight might be scum"

-Harvey

Researching the validity of this post will require more time and brainpower than i have to dedicate to it, tonight.

I have to work early in the am, so this bit will have to wait.

[House]

The way you put it across makes it sound like it's acceptable to just scumread someone because they're not being transparent with their thought processes, and sometimes there is a protown reason for that.

There's a difference between not being transparent and not producing content because you're scum. That's the key distinction to keep in mind.

Seeking clarity is always ideal. A person's words should absolve or condemn them, not their lack of words.

Without their stated opinions/thoughts/beliefs/etc, we're only projecting what we want to believe to be true, and that is not protown.

There's the rest of that quote, since you seem to have missed it.

If the player is asked & refuses to answer, that refusal is still content on which to base an opinion. Not even asking and assuming the worst, however, is suboptimal okay at the most generous level (and yes, it's something i do sometimes... but recognizing weaknesses is all part of self-improvement).

[House]

The way you put it across makes it sound like it's acceptable to just scumread someone because they're not being transparent with their thought processes, and sometimes there is a protown reason for that.

There's a difference between not being transparent and not producing content because you're scum. That's the key distinction to keep in mind.

Seeking clarity is always ideal. A person's words should absolve or condemn them, not their lack of words.

Without their stated opinions/thoughts/beliefs/etc, we're only projecting what we want to believe to be true, and that is not protown.

There's the rest of that quote, since you seem to have missed it.

If the player is asked & refuses to answer, that refusal is still content on which to base an opinion. Not even asking and assuming the worst, however, is suboptimal play* at the most generous level (and yes, it's something i do sometimes... but recognizing weaknesses is all part of self-improvement).

Edit.

[House]

*twitch*

[House]

if enough people arent reading it the same way i am then im ready to admit my interpretation is wrong

and
VOTE: Enchant

Town.

Hard disagree.

She used it as an excuse to hop off me because my wagon dissipated.

That one opinion being invalidated by others does not automatically negate everything else she claimed to read into my posts.

[House]

how is that missing that Titus knows Thor?

You don't address her knowledge of his playstyle at all.

(Yes, they do know each other)

Great, on top of meta...meta that I'm inferred to know and expected to use...

I inferred no such thing.

If i made an erroneous assumption i apologize, but i could have sworn that you knew his main.

[House]

Enchant read it's waffle-ish, but given that it's d1, that is whatevs.

I truly loathe his progression on Manatee, though. That has bothered me for a long time.

Why is my stance questionable but Enchant gets a pass because it's day 1?

I was referring to Gamma's read on Enchant.

It's common for people to be unsure/waffle on reads on d1.

I don't think I've criticized you for waffling, have i?

[House]

She used it as an excuse to hop off me because my wagon dissipated.

Nobody really needs "excuses" to stop voting somewhere. You can just do it and probably nobody will really make a big deal about it.

Lol.

Considering how long and vocally she was pushing me, just hopping off with no comment would have been noticed.

[House]

I think you're overstating or overthinking your own importance/ the importance of events surrounding you when it comes to the thread at large. I think that this is probably town indicative.

No. What's important is the notice behind actions.

If she had jumped off you like that after pushing you from your first post in the game, I'd say the same thing.

[House]

I think you're overstating or overthinking your own importance/ the importance of events surrounding you when it comes to the thread at large. I think that this is probably town indicative.

No. What's important is the motive* behind actions.

If she had jumped off you like that after pushing you from your first post in the game, I'd say the same thing.

Edit

[House]

Damnit Gamma, I'm trying to entertain the notion that you might be scum. Stop making that impossible!

VOTE: Miss Midnight

[House]

Phone posting is the worst thing. >_>

Preach!

[House]

I feel like MM v Gamma is SvT.

MM's interactions don't feel like good faith.

Also, low-key not a fan of stuff like this:

I think you're overstating or overthinking your own importance/ the importance of events surrounding you when it comes to the thread at large. I think that this is probably town indicative.

... Last i checked, she was already townreading me anyway. It comes across as trying to keep me leashed with a townread cookie or someshit.