Open 825 - PYP X/Y: HoS_S [game over!]

[House]

MM + 1 of {Auro/ManateeGal} are all fine lims for today.

My first choice remains MM.

This does not parse in my head. It makes more sense to say that just one of those three are fine?

I was saying (at that time) that i believed the scum team to be either:

MM + MG, or
MM + Auro

Current theory, however, is:

MM + Thor, or
MM + Auro (trying to rock the boat when town was beginning to find each other was Not A Good Look, plus I'm willing to work with Penguin on his suspicions there as well)

[House]

That feels kinda flimsy
Why do you think Flea wouldn’t bus? How does your read on me factor into that?

Doesn't really make sense. A random last minute vote on Enchant there would give basically no town credit and would probably actually be more suspicious than it would give town credit. There's especially no reason to do it when we literally had tied competing wagons.

It has basically nothing to do with my read on you?

She's already casing faer in preparation for toDay.

[House]

But regardless of team potential there is no reason one person being a good elim precludes another person from also being one

Level of suspicion, however, is.

Obviously, I wasn't married to that theory, considering I've already amended it.

[House]

It seems to me like Flea scum only makes sense if Enchant is also scum, I can't really see Flea scum Enchant town. So again, even without any real townread there I guess I just don't really get the wagon.

If MM flips red, Flea is basically IC for this post.

I kinda get it but I also don’t

That post reads as trying to set up a mislim following losing a buddy.

Why would scum box themselves into scumreading another buddy when the one that's currently being scumread is in danger of being eliminated?

This also feels backwards
MM only said Flea had to be scum with Enchant, not the other way around

Assume for a moment that MM is scum.

She knows that Enchant is scum.

Her team is in danger of losing a member.

Now, reread my post.

[House]

My main issue there is with the “one of” bit

I dunno why.

MM is my primary suspect. The 3rd member, I'm less sure on.

It obviously can't be both of them, as there are only 3 scum. So, it's "one of".

[House]

But they’re both suspects, therefore they’re both good lims, there is no “one of” in that sort of statement

Clumsily worded, perhaps, but i was stating the possible scum teams, of which MM was the common denominator.

[House]

UNVOTE:
Don't wanna place her at E-2 yet.

Yeah, if she's town both scum will jump to hammer her!

Not like that would be informative in itself, or anything.

[House]

But they’re both suspects, therefore they’re both good lims, there is no “one of” in that sort of statement

Clumsily worded, perhaps, but i was stating the possible scum teams, of which MM was the common denominator.

Eh I think I see the missing logical connector there
“MM + one of these two are probably the scum,

thus

the are all good lims”

Now you're tracking!

[House]

I guess it checks out but it’s a really dumb way of setting Flea up because the connection was set up from the other end to how it would make sense
Basically I’m saying if MM was doing that, she fucked it up

Just curious, did you miss 2512?

[House]

GeorgeBailey

You're dead, stop posting.

[House]

I am not wanting an MM wagon today.

I hope that's not because of some soft or crumb.

This is not a game that would matter in.

[House]

Spoiler: Every time MM is mentioned in Enchant's ISO

VOTE: Miss Midnight

?

Seems like i was fast with townreads.

Why MM is mafia?

Long for midnight by voting miss midnight

Enchanting?

Yes, but no.

...
I kinda wanna ask why you chose to vote me? If it's because you're counterwagoning to survive, why not miss midnight?

Because i think you are more likely mafia than MM.

Well. Yes?

Okay.
Why am I scummier than MM to you?

Hard to explain.

I don't think mafia makes something like this:

Could someone who was scum... make this??

Spoiler: Every time Enchant is mentioned in MM's ISO

why?

I don't think Enchant read past iterations of PYP if he thought people would always first pick vig. I think scum almost certainly would have looked at what numbers and roles people have picked in past games.

Good logic. Early townreads for me on you, Enchant, and Bee.

VOTE: ManateeGal

... Only i here tried to being higher in quoue to get best roles?

No, I did this as well. This is my fourth PYP game (all different variants, but same drafting mechanism), and I have picked 9 each time, with an average draft position of 3.5.

It's quite a nice strategy you've carved out for yourself. Anyone who actually goes back to check previous games will probably take notice of it and thus will avoid it, so your only risk is either accidental collision from those who don't check or notice, or intentional collision for some other purpose. I very briefly considered the latter, but decided against it. Feels almost like some out of game advantage that you've got, really. Though, no more so than how much any given player's meta contributes to their benefit in a game.

Good logic. Early townreads for me on you, Enchant, and Bee.

Can you explain the Bee townread? Thanks.

@Miss Midnight

-Harvey

There's nothing compelling or convincing that I could tell you at this stage. I just got a towny feeling reading her posts up to that point.

@Midnight, What are your thoughts on Enchant? I have my own opinion but I want to hear yours.

He's been asking weird questions and having some weird thoughts. They're overly innocent thoughts, but not in a way which seems forced or intentional. Inclined to read as town, but his play so far seems different from the little I've seen from his other games; unsure how to interpret.

Why my thoughts? It's because together we're the most stylish in the playerlist, isn't it? It is, I knew it.

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

Curious comment, considering your clamming-up on the circumstances of Manatee.

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

Curious comment, considering your clamming-up on the circumstances of Manatee.

Curious comment given I FoSed you as partners with Enchant.

ManateeGal was an RVS wagon, nothing more. I was perfectly ok with it proceeding and I still am.

That doesn't preclude me from pushing the slots I think are scum.

You're equating silence on a topic to objecting to it.

Okay, this is a good response.

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

I see your townreads on the other wagons of Gamma and Manatee, but thoughts on the Enchant wagon? Enchant's alignment in general?

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

I see your townreads on the other wagons of Gamma and Manatee, but thoughts on the Enchant wagon? Enchant's alignment in general?

Kind of wanted to raincheck this but, Enchant is more likely to be scum than Manatee but less than House imo? I don't know what to make of Enchant not caring about the wagon on him. Like if it's because he doesn't know how to engage with the people pushing him or because he doesn't care. He's posted content but it's not engaging on stuff that matters as much. :<

Earlier I interpreted that weirdness as town. Agreed that it becomes a little harder to interpret that way as it continues with little engagemnt in the face of a wagon, and agreed that it might be better to rain check the discussion until we hear more.

Manatee or Enchant would be better votes

Were you scumreading Thor at any point?
Wanna talk about Thor?

-Harvey

Not really, no... I toyed with the idea briefly,

but he has zero motive as scum to actively attempt to derail my wagon in the way that he did, by posting details about me that he could have sat on as scum

.

If my wagon is derailed, it might land on him or one of his buddies if he's scum, and i don't see him risking that as scum when he's already under suspicion himself.

Think that these kinds of reads (bolded) come a lot more from town than they do scum. Townies have a tendency to townread defenses of themselves, there's a cognitive bias against seeing reasons that someone defending you would be scum. Don't think scum have that same tendency, so think that this is town indicative from House. Probably more so especially given the competing wagon positions of House and Thor, at least at the time of this post.

What would you say your main motivation was for the questioning of people scumreading Thor around that time?

I think just to understand the reads so that if I disagree with the reasoning I can voice that disagreement without jumping to conclusions.

It seems like you didn't do this for earlier wagons, such as on House or Enchant. Why?

VOTE: harvey and haley
Idk about Enchant but I feel this is a decent vote seeing as I’ve seen like a few people express suspicion toward this slot and I also suspect them

Think this is a really bad justification here.

i leave y'all alone for one night and THIS happens

VOTE: enchant

wanna start off a shock 11th hour counterwagon?
want to get a claim out of enchant?
you are a furball full of potential rn.

Think that unless you genuinely and strongly want Enchant over Gamma today this is pretty strongly anti-town, even disregarding my reads on either player. Especially the getting a claim out of Enchant part, don't see a reason to push for more claims unless like I said you strongly want an elim there.

It seems to me like Flea scum only makes sense if Enchant is also scum, I can't really see Flea scum Enchant town. So again, even without any real townread there I guess I just don't really get the wagon.

It seems to me like Flea scum only makes sense if Enchant is also scum, I can't really see Flea scum Enchant town.

Why? Because Flea hasn't voted for Enchant?

Basically? Yeah.

That feels kinda flimsy
Why do you think Flea wouldn’t bus? How does your read on me factor into that?

Doesn't really make sense. A random last minute vote on Enchant there would give basically no town credit and would probably actually be more suspicious than it would give town credit. There's especially no reason to do it when we literally had tied competing wagons.

It has basically nothing to do with my read on you?

It seems to me like Flea scum only makes sense if Enchant is also scum, I can't really see Flea scum Enchant town.

Why? Because Flea hasn't voted for Enchant?

Basically? Yeah.

It wouldn't matter if both Enchant and Gamma were town, would it?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

That feels kinda flimsy
Why do you think Flea wouldn’t bus? How does your read on me factor into that?

Doesn't really make sense. A random last minute vote on Enchant there would give basically no town credit and would probably actually be more suspicious than it would give town credit. There's especially no reason to do it when we literally had tied competing wagons.

It has basically nothing to do with my read on you?

I’m not asking how it affects your read on me, rather I’m asking the reverse, how your read on me informs your view of the Flea/Enchant relationship

Yeah, again I think I want to say it changes nothing? Doesn't really have all that much to do with you I don't think.

Suppose Enchant & Gamma were TvT wagons, both at 6 votes

Scum Flea can just vote whichever miselim wagon fae wants to go through

A hypothetical scenario in which scum flea and enchant town can coexist

But I guess you'd have to think Gamma could be town in this scenario

I do think that Gamma could be town? Or rather, as I think I said verbatim and had a whole argument about earlier, I'm not so arrogant as to be incapable of considering worlds in which I'm wrong. Interesting that people seem to have that perception of me, though.

In that scenario, why does scum Flea refuse to vote the Enchant wagon? As you say, fae can just vote whichever one to go through and switch between them.

I do think that Gamma could be town? Or rather, as I think I said verbatim and had a whole argument about earlier, I'm not so arrogant as to be incapable of considering worlds in which I'm wrong. Interesting that people seem to have that perception of me, though.

In that scenario, why does scum Flea refuse to vote the Enchant wagon?

As you say, fae can just vote whichever one to go through and switch between them.

Nah, not arrogant. I just wasn't sure if you were working from the assumption that Gamma is scum.

One reason would be optics - one can't be seen as willing to go with any miselim.

I agree that that's a valid concern for scum. Think my impression is just that the utility for scum is a lot greater in being more flexible on which of the two goes through; even just pushing for claims gets you a lot. So, not impossible, just perhaps unlikely. I would be surprised, let's say.

Like I said. I think that 1 day 22 hours on the clock is really not the best time to be pressure wagoning someone. Also, this is another "level zero" thought similar to what I said about Flea and Enchant, but I think that the lack of any real counterwagon movement to Manatee is weak evidence that scum don't have any problem with the current state of affairs. It's possible Manatee is being bussed, but I think that's like the third possible world I would be considering here. (That's not just an expression, it really is the third.)

So, your problem with me is admittedly a playstyle issue which goes back to my comment about you wanting people to fit into your mold.

To be clear - which if you were reading with actual intent to understand you would have understood - I have reads, but I have no strong reads. It's day 1 and there's nothing to form a strong opinion off. There are people I wouldn't wagon or vote out today! There are also lots of people that I would!

You keep saying that I try to "fit people in my mold". I'm not sure if you think that it works to discredit what I'm saying or what. Maybe it does. But I think it's pretty clear that that isn't the case, like I talked about earlier when it comes to my reads on S_S, Manatee (and also maybe Enchant) and as I recall you mostly just brushed off.

You say you have reads but no strong reads. Okay. That isn't what this is about to me. To me, this is about a lack of demonstrable evidence for that first claim, that you have reads, even if they're not strong ones. As I said earlier, with the way that you engage people on various topics I would expect some of that style of engagement to also happen on the subject of some reads you have, or even just one. But I don't see that pattern of behavior in your play so far.

Actually, no.

VOTE: Enchant

Eh. I think actually I will vote either of Enchant or Titus. My cold feet on Titus have defrosted, and on Enchant I think it'll be useful to at least see the flip of one side of that 6/6 wagon.

You can't fake not interacting

with each other

.

[House]

I am not wanting an MM wagon today.

I hope that's not because of some soft or crumb.

This is not a game that would matter in.

I'm outed. I don't leave crumbs as a neighbor unless my hood target wanted a result crumbed.

I don't want MM because a) they voted Enchant b) they're a counter to Enchant and c) [weakest] they're high up in the draft.

A) Enchant was both obvscum AND condemned; she also UNVOTED Enchant at EoD
B) Didn't you just tell me yesterDay that multiple scum getting run up on D1 is "a thing that happens" or somesuch?
C) NAI; if anything, it makes her more dangerous as scum.

[House]

Fun stuff.

Looks like ducky may be getting avenged, today.

[House]

if i was two people, i'd put a vote on midnight. i just like my flea vote more.

enchant, thor, flea and midnight are the four people i'm like, constantly and acutely anxious about. i'd rather not tier my townreads rn.

i had this brief strong feeling like flea might be town earlier when fae got really fussy and nitpicky about my asking faer a question, but on reflection i don't think the things fae was picking at were actually trying to discern anything from me and i think that pseudo-guilty rock i got in my gut was because fae was trying to make me slip up. :s

is it weird to put so much emphasis on our interaction to read faer? probably. oh well. i'm a weird person.

pedit: literally kill thor before ELo. please.

Quite an interesting post.

[House]

Ah well, back to work.

See you folks in 4-5 hours.

[House]

I am not wanting an MM wagon today.

I hope that's not because of some soft or crumb.

This is not a game that would matter in.

I'm outed. I don't leave crumbs as a neighbor unless my hood target wanted a result crumbed.

I don't want MM because a) they voted Enchant b) they're a counter to Enchant and c) [weakest] they're high up in the draft.

I know i already addressed this, but such weak reasoning is strange coming from you.

a) You mean this vote?

Bleh. Don't really like any of these wagons. Even Titus, despite what I said earlier.

VOTE: Penguin

Actually, no.

VOTE: Enchant

Eh. I think actually I will vote either of Enchant or Titus. My cold feet on Titus have defrosted, and on Enchant I think it'll be useful to at least see the flip of one side of that 6/6 wagon.

If you ever wonder why you're getting scumread, this is an excellent example.

Don't care, didn't ask.

UNVOTE:

Much town.

b)

2 scum blundering into competing wagons on d1?

See situation room. 3 scum were wagoned d1.

Well, does it happen or doesn't it?

[House]

Curse his soft and comfy pockets! His meta defense of me was too sweet.

I don't believe this is a genuine thought, as you are obviously aware of the effects of white knighting as displayed in this post:

You're not convincing anyone with this sort of thing. The only players it convinces is the person you're protecting that you're town.

[House]

Note: looking back on votecounts, Thor needs a lot more pressure tomorrow.

This is a good look for Auro if Thor flips red.

[House]

Why would scum box themselves into scumreading another buddy when the one that's currently being scumread is in danger of being eliminated?

Loldistancing?

It happens.

Time and a place.

It's stupid as scum to voluntarily position yourself into scumreading the only buddy you'll have left (especially out of the blue like that) if the one currently under suspicion gets eliminated.

Disagree all you want, idc, I'm locktowning flea on a MM red flip (although hopefully that will be moot if Thor gets eliminated today & flips red).

[House]

If you cop checked me because of how bad I looked after yesterday, I'd rather you reveal the innocent check sooner rather than later. Let's not let the day waste away as everyone slowly but surely roasts and piles on me, just reveal it now.

Right.

And what role that may actually be in this game, exactly, would provide results that "clear" you?

[House]

S_S Stop alt hunting. He doesn't want to reveal so leave him be.

I mean the problem is that either he's this bad at understanding mechanics or he's scum trolling, and very few people are this bad at understanding mechanics. So if he can prove he has a history of this, then I won't think he's scum trolling anymore.

Once he's dead, the problem self-resolves.

[House]

Curse his soft and comfy pockets! His meta defense of me was too sweet.

I don't believe this is a genuine thought, as you are obviously aware of the effects of white knighting as displayed in this post:

You're not convincing anyone with this sort of thing. The only players it convinces is the person you're protecting that you're town.

Enchant gave reasons which

do

convince people if you look at his posts defending me, Titus did not.

Reasons that could have easily been coordinated in scum chat, sure.

"Hey Thor, this is what I notice about your town play. Do that so I can townread you."

It's not like his meta defense was at all nuanced. It had all the subtlety of a fog horn.

[House]

if it’s an established scammer

Sounds like something you should be concerned about on an official level.

[House]

*runs away*

[House]

Since you brought it up I’ll just throw out the reminder that I can’t use knowledge I gain during my job as a listmod as an advantage in games.

Not at all what i was alluding to, i was merely poking at your typo (which I'm sure you understood, but others may not have).

[House]

I have that happen a lot.

It gets frustrating at times.

[House]

Game is getting stale.

Somebody do something interesting so I can tell you how it makes you scum for 7 pages before arbitrarily flipping my read on you.

[House]

I find it hard to believe as genuine even if this is someone who decided to play their first game outside the newbie queue. Also, that’s a bad reason to make it a serious read. nk’s can be made for a variety of reasons one of which is to create that wifom.

In this case, i disagree.

ducky was suspicious about Thor, Enchant, MM, and flea on d1.

They were right about Enchant.

Who are the 2 primary scumspects, today?

I'm sold on ducky being nk'ed for accuracy. It's not like they didn't have an outed, non-contested PR to shoot. Even if UB isn't particularly helpful to us right this second, it can force them to kill her at an inopportune time later once she inherits a decent power, at which point it might be too late.

Scum needs a reason not to shoot an outed PR. Accurate reads tops that list.

[House]

Also that assumes the outed PR is town but that’s for a later time.

Titus is town.

Even flea recognizes her non-bussing meta, and fae was after her hard and heavy d1.

[House]

Though a UB is never a N1 kill.

It is if scum doesn't have a line on a better PR, or afraid of a player regardless of role.

There are roles UB can inherit that scum can't prevent town getting utility out of. Stupid risk to allow it to survive once outed.

[House]

Titus got neighborizer though right?

No. That was Enchant.

[House]

Okay, if you insist.

VOTE: PenguinPower

Remind me that i owe you 7 pages of tunneling, later.

[House]

*bow*

[House]

Wowowow who am I voting?

MM, last i checked.

[House]

Thank you. Seems to be in duck’s pool, no?

In the pool, yes.

[House]

I just think there are better reasons to scumread Thor than the shady alt-based rhetoric.

[House]

I would advise Titus not to clarify on whether she inherited Enchant's role.

It does town no good to know that information, same lets scum know how much of a threat she still is from a UB perspective.

[House]

I would advise Titus not to clarify on whether she inherited Enchant's role.

It does town no good to know that information, and* lets scum know how much of a threat she still is from a UB perspective.

[House]

I would advise Titus not to clarify on whether she inherited Enchant's role.

Scum can just ask this if they want to know. It's an open setup.

Doesn't mean Datisi will answer.

Just because the roles are known doesn't mean specifics will be clarified. That's up to mod discretion.

[House]

I disagree with him as to the use of mechanics, not the read.

Disagree with tw? Didn't he push the same angle that you just tried to shoot down from me?

Bullshit. ducky wasn't trying to force a player to out their alt under a flimsy pretense.

You're starting to earn those 7 pages.

[House]

Bullshit. ducky wasn't trying to force a player to out their alt under a flimsy pretense.

I'm not trying to force anything... Thor is welcome to not out his alt and get pushed by me. Ducky wasn't even giving him a choice.

Scum doesn't deserve one, tbh.

[House]

Well, that's assuming that he's actually as bad at mechanics as he's acting. If he isn't, then he doesn't have that option, you are right.

I don't care about how bad he is or isn't at mechanics.

How else do you want to defend your behavior?

[House]

How else do you want to defend your behavior?

What about my behavior needs defending?

Coercion.

[House]

I'll put it this way, if it makes it clearer: I've seen lots of scum players use incredibly shady tactics, including (but not limited to) playing on an alt in a way that they would never get away with playing on their main, to the point where I can believe that some people (especially old ones) might try this as scum.

Whereas, I don't think I've met a single person who displayed both the amount of interest in mechanics and the amount of ineptitude with mechanics that Thor has. I've seen some people be bad at mechanics; but that's because they don't care, and they would never go to the lengths he did to make these theories.

And that's a fine reason to base a vote.

Carrot & stick is not.

[House]

Miss Scum is ~9 hours from prod 3. Can we just elim and move on?

I'm good with either Thor or MM, today.

I think they're both scum.

[House]

Okay, if you insist.

VOTE: PenguinPower

Oh look, he didn't even need to bow to your veiled bribe.

[House]

Nope.

Already stated why.

[House]

Nope.

No, you don't understand my point of view? Is there a part you'd like me to explain in more detail?

You can't explain 2+3= 87 and make it make sense.

[House]

Thor's play has been scummy regardless of his amount of experience.

Bottom line.

[House]

It's a good thing everything is as clear-cut as math, then.

I don't find ethics to be particularly murky, but that's just me.

Not saying I'm a saint, but i know when and how I'm wrong when it happens.

[House]

So you think I'm 100% scum? Or what?

I never said my opinion of your behavior was my opinion of your alignment.

Just because you do something i disagree with doesn't mean it's based on a red role pm.

[House]

Or to put it bluntly, I dislike what you did as a person, not a player.

[House]

That's exactly what i take issue with, actually.

That you feel such actions are justifiable.

[House]

I wanted to scumread you for shit stirring, but scum tends to do it in a way that pits town against each other instead of drawing heat onto themselves.

[House]

Who it was done to didn't matter to me personally insomuch as it was done at all.

That's something that i would not like to see become a part of the site meta, because it can make games unpleasant.

That said, water under the bridge and all.

[House]

I disagree.

Thor is still under intense scrutiny today, and i don't see a world where he survives to Elo.

[House]

Aren't you kinda wasting your vote on a vanity wagon instead of helping to push Thor into hammer range for some chaotic hammer happy dunce to do what must be done?

[House]

On an unrelated note, as roles are not tied to alignment, i don't believe anyone should claim for the rest of the game.

Any "good roles" that town can benefit from are "horrible roles" in the hands of scum, so their role is no reason to dismantle the wagon.

It also takes away a tool from scum's box of tricks (running up town for a claim to know who to nk).

[House]

Also, if scum got the vig/pgo choice, they probably took pgo for the extra kill, so I would recommend against targeting scumspects until/unless the vig shot is used.

If town has the vig shot, it should probably be used tonight on whichever of Thor/MM is not eliminated.

Thoughts?

[House]

On an unrelated note, as roles are not tied to alignment, i don't believe anyone should claim for the rest of the game.

Any "good roles" that town can benefit from are "horrible roles" in the hands of scum, so their role is no reason to dismantle the wagon.

I don't think this is uniformly true-- some roles benefit town way more than they benefit scum. For example cop.

There is no alignment cop in this setup, so your point is moot.

[House]

I think it's pretty safe to say that tw's thoughts are going to get less consideration relative to their merit because he's no longer around to push them.

This is a little unfair to me, because I've been pushing the worst's posts as reasons for scum!Thor since near the start of toDay.

[House]

Up

[House]

I wonder whether/how quickly I'd get modkilled if I put a vote for a different player at the bottom of every post, considering how often I post in a game.

[House]

I'm not a big fan of associating activity with alignment, but i have to admit a touch of concern over the fact Auro has less posts than Datisi.

[House]

Trying to decide whether I want to eat or sleep.

Tempted to ask for advice, but I'll probably be asleep before anyone answers, so I guess I have my answer.

[House]

There is no alignment cop in this setup, so your point is moot.

Ascetic Cop | Bulletproof?

Role is not indicative of alignment | easy excuse for not being nightkilled

[House]

There is no alignment cop in this setup, so your point is moot.

Ascetic Cop | Bulletproof?

Role is not indicative of alignment

| easy excuse for not being nightkilled

Misread.

Scum has motive to pick ascetic cop because of the first word in the role.

[House]

There is no alignment cop in this setup, so your point is moot.

Ascetic Cop | Bulletproof?

Role is not indicative of alignment

| easy excuse for not being nightkilled

Misread.

Scum has motive to pick ascetic cop because of the first word in the role.

Also, scum can pick bp and CLAIM they picked the cop role, so I'd hammer them anyway.

[House]

Can a couple of people unvote me? I'm really starting to feel the pressure and it's making it really hard to form coherent thoughts without being worried more people will scumread me for saying something dumb. It's hard for me to work in these constrained environments.

I'd rather a couple more people vote you, personally.

[House]

Locking in on a flawed theory is a toxic way to play. There was too much evidence to ignore.

It doesn't make sense to put in that much work and ignore the results, especially when a common name in them flips red with you avoiding the wagon.

[House]

If you had spent the day parked on Enchant and he flipped green, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you, because your have been being your vote on your analysis.

[House]

If you had spent the day parked on Enchant and he flipped green, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you, because your have been basing* your vote on your analysis.

[House]

MM today, Thor tomorrow.

plskthx

I'd rather have whichever one isn't eliminated today vigged tonight if town has the role.

I'm concerned about PGO possibly being in scum's hands unless that gun is used tonight.

Night 3 has a possible n3 vig shot, so I'd rather avoid that possible misunderstanding.

[House]

I'm not a big fan of associating activity with alignment, but i have to admit a touch of concern over the fact Auro has less posts than Datisi.

Add the posts from the Harvey & Haley account.

That's fair. I forgot about the split.

Thanks.

[House]

No read on Penguin?

[House]

More than Manatee?

That's a little odd.

[House]

I was being disingenuous to see if you'd get defensive.

[House]

Cruel!

Not at all, just curious about your sincerity.

[House]

I was being disingenuous to see if you'd get defensive.

Happy Cake day

Thank you.

[House]

Pre-ban, I was more comfortable rolling scum and on edge when i rolled town.

Now, I feel much more comfortable with my town game (despite the occasional abrasiveness that I'm still working to getting a handle on).

I don't know how I feel about my scum game yet, as the only time I've rolled scum thus far was in a game that i couldn't keep up with and would have posted the same regardless of alignment.

[House]

the disagreement in our reads.

Not sure where this bit is coming from, as you are a large part of why I hammered Enchant, and not particularly irrelevant as to my pressure on Thor.

MM is the primary point of disagreement, I believe.

[House]

Anywho, let's make this interesting.

VOTE: Auro

[House]

Interesting you didn't vote for Miss Midnight when she was your counterwagon and at 4 votes.

Interesting that you don't mention that he explained why.

[House]

@House: I just see these, can you please re-quote where he explained his lack of vote for MM?

Enchant doesn't vote for Miss Midnight when I asked for his help twice and he never explains his townread there. He at one point says gut and at another says he thinks scum can't produce the drawing she produced...

Contrast that to his other townreads which he has plenty of explanations for and I think it may mean she's scum.

I'd vote her but I don't wanna look opportunistic and I'm scared everyone's just gonna jump on board of me any minute now so I will cower under the rug of my attic and only emerge when it is safe outside.

[House]

You literally quoted the list right before it.

[House]

You literally quoted the post* right before it.

[House]

And I find it interesting that it's "safe outside" and a vote on me given how I am currently perceived this day isn't opportunistic.

And I find it interesting how you're ignoring him interacting with me after i told him I wanted more votes on him, which clearly meant it was NOT "safe outside".

[House]

And I find it interesting how you agree it's not "safe outside", therefore meaning his logic should dictate it's still a bad time to place a vote, contradicting his actual placement of a vote on me.

This isn't a bad take, but to be fair he was responding to a direct request from Titus to vote for one of his stated scumreads to START a wagon, which isn't as opportunistic as, say, being the 5th vote on a wagon that needs 7.

[House]

I recognise that, but I'm factoring in the sentiment towards me so far in D2 as well - I'm scumread by a few and townread by no one? Both slots which townread me are now dead

Yeah, but one of them flipped scum so I don't know how much I'd be counting that one.

[House]

Anywho, let's make this interesting.

[House]

[House]

[House]

MM still hasn't checked in?

She's reading as demoralized scum to me ever since the end of d1 when she was also being scumread.

A team getting rutted tends to have that effect.

[House]

2nd thoughts on distancing your entire team?

[House]

Just pushing buttons.

[House]

I just re-watched that last night. Great movie.

It wasn't quite what I expected for an animated flick.

I was pleasantly surprised.

[House]

The beginning sequence of that movie is <3

You wanna know how to push my buttons, Housey Mousey?

Discovery is half the fun.

[House]

I really wish this site had a ModBot.

That's the one thing I miss from MU.

[House]

I was being disingenuous to see if you'd get defensive.

LUL
Btw I can now go into why I felt confident enough to read House early on, I was seeing something vaguely similar to his play in Radio Buzz, and given how little he posted there it boosted my belief that “yes, I can read him off minimal posting”.

A faulty belief, as I would have made those same posts as either alignment.

I couldn't keep up, which meant I couldn't form reads OR develop an agenda.

[House]

A usual outcome of fakehammers is drawing genuine responses from the hammeree

Not such a concern if your intention was noted in scum chat, is it?

[House]

I just re-watched that last night. Great movie.

I watched Pulp Fiction last night, man that’s a hard movie to keep track of.

You're probably get lost in Memento, v then.

[House]

I just re-watched that last night. Great movie.

I watched Pulp Fiction last night, man that’s a hard movie to keep track of.

You'd probably get lost in Memento, then.

/sigh

[House]

Nah.

Gamma is town. He knows how scorched earth I get when I feel attacked.

[House]

[House]

A usual outcome of fakehammers is drawing genuine responses from the hammeree

Not such a concern if your intention was noted in scum chat, is it?

Also I’ve literally gotten voted out off of doubt that my town reaction to a fake hammer was genuine so I have little faith in the process

Thing is, your opinion of his process isn't relevant to his opinion of his process.

Ya dig?

[House]

Anywho, I'm still happiest with

VOTE: MM

But the Thor/Auro bit of my theory sure is taking some interesting twists & turns.

[House]

MM's play ever since I called her out at EoD has just been dripping with, "fuck this game" vibes.

Sure, that could have possibly come from town on d1... before the red flip... but this isn't d1 & scum have flipped.

[House]

Idr what the votes are at but once the VC is posted I’ll prolly vote there

MM is at 4 with my return to the wagon.

[House]

In a just-completed scumgame of Enchant's, he did give a very vague read on his scumpartner, Cephrir. In contrast, Enchant's reads on town was backed with more explanation.

I am not accurate.

If you are town, you solve it far better than me without needing of my reads. So don't follow them.


About mafia.

Tetrina

/

Cephier

and someone else, perhaps?
Tetrina could be mafia who push in hopes to get more claims, if SS is town.

Cephier

... Idk. I simple dislike him. Probably most no reliable.

Here you go.

I think Thor, Bee, Heley and Helay, MM, House townie enough to pass.

Murder everyone else and we win.

VOTE: Cat

Let's try this a different way...

Why do you consider these players town?

Thor is town, because of... Why i need it explain, just look. You scumread him simple because he "doesh't play like normal town", but you forget, everyone have different town play.

Bee not townread now. Probably i am hypocrite, but she certanly doesh't care at all who is elimmed. As long as it's not her of course.

Haley and Huley still looks fairly townie for me, i started to townread her from "Vigilante" question on which she reacted townie.

MM... I quess gut. I can't explain really.

You are same, with a bit "I don't think scum gets wagoned so fast for idiotic reasons"

Not a great example.

He had recently replaced into an EXTREMELY active game and his other reads of townies we're also minimalistic.

[House]

were*

[House]

Rebuttal quote:

I don't have idea who is mafia yet, but

Pooky

seems like town, because of caller analysis and he thinks like me seems. Anime (not that caller anime,

Kyoko

) also seems trustworthy, and i can't really remember mafia making accuses like that, so why not sheep. Also, don't fear any hammerers, there's none in this game. *chuckle*

[House]

<snip>

I don't have idea who is mafia yet, but Pooky seems like town,

because of caller analysis

and he thinks like me seems. Anime (not that caller anime, Kyoko) also seems trustworthy, and

i can't really remember mafia making accuses like that

, so why not sheep. Also, don't fear any hammerers, there's none in this game. *chuckle*

Btw, because you will make ANOTHER 10 PAGES in not so long, don't expect me to read all what you post always. If something important, please point it so i will read it for sure.

I dunno, these are indeed minimalistic reads on town, but they go beyond just "gutfeels."

The Kyoko townread is equivalent to his read of MM.

[House]

VOTE: Miss Midnight
That’s E-2

E-1.

[House]

So close y'all. Let's hammer this home.

Why not wait for a claim?

Roles are not attached to alignment.

[House]

I feel like the Kyoko read is more fleshed out. The reason for the Kyoko read is because "mafia doesn't make accusations like this." As opposed to a read on MM that Enchant literally "can't explain."

"Mafia doesn't draw pictures like this"

[House]

So close y'all. Let's hammer this home.

Why not wait for a claim?

Roles are not attached to alignment.

I agree generally, but some roles are more helpful to town than the other way around. There's definitely one thing MM could claim that would make me not want to elim her.

She'd die tonight anyway, as the cop is ascetic.

If she's scum, she could fake claim it to draw out the cc and potentially get the real cop eliminated, or they'll kill it if she fails.

I don't see a win there.

[House]

I'm clearly never scum with Miss Midnight if you look at how she reacted to me earlier in this game.

I have the power to kill and I'm willing to direct my shot based on what town thinks is best.

Also I'm not ready to end the day. Have we talked about this?

Yes. Who he kills will be informative based on his posts today.

[House]

Okay, if you insist.

VOTE: PenguinPower

VOTE: S_S

You're better than this

#PhonePosting

This could be fun.

VOTE: S_S

[House]

house didnt you chastise me earlier for voting S_S?

I dunno.

I'm fickle.

[House]

house didnt you chastise me earlier for voting S_S?

I chastised you for why, not who.

[House]

le sigh

Don't get me wrong, I'm still good with a MM wagon.

There just plenty of time in the day to poke bears.

[House]

In case I get vigged -> remember that my spicy take is Penguin scum.

I don't remember you having this take at all. What is the basis for it?

That's why I added the adjective "spicy"

Penguin's poor logic in his attack on me, and his further pushes without acknowledging arguments against it.

Guess I'm scum too.

[House]

I just don't think the fakehammer is the smoking gun PP believes it to be.

[House]

Sure, it's kinda the game - positing theories backed by poor logic as scum to push your desired eliminations

That's some T0 shade... and that's coming from *me* of all people.

[House]

Okay, if you insist.

VOTE: PenguinPower

VOTE: S_S

You're better than this

#PhonePosting

This could be fun.

VOTE: S_S

Care to elaborate?

I could, but doing so would undermine my secret agenda... so I won't.

[House]

UNVOTE:

What's your read on Miss Midnight?

[House]

I think that returning to or replacing into E-1 is enough to rattle pretty much anyone.

You should vote MM. For science.

[House]

VOTE: Miss Midnight

And thus, my agenda is both revealed and fulfilled.

[House]

I would hate to replace into a slot that is just getting eliminated anyway

It's a terrible position to be put into.

[House]

/inb4 she flips ascetic cop

(Would be low-key pissed at an ascetic cop getting this demoralized over d1, especially with a scum flip though)

[House]

MM scum flip = Thor town.

D1 lolhammer + conspicuously leaving leading wagon + goading the wagon back up to E-1 = obvious agenda to lolhammer today that scum would never have bought into.

[House]

[House]

My name is Thor Odinson Ragnarok, and I will pick my power, in this game, or the next.

I would highly recommend shooting Auro.

[House]

My name is Thor Odinson Ragnarok, and I will pick my power, in this game, or the next.

Not sure what annoys me more ..

The End of world event being used as a name, or the mech ignorance.

Ragnarök is what happens when Fenris breaks free of his chains, eats Odin, Tyr, Heimdall and I think Freya; and Jorgmandr aka the world serpent wakes up and basically turns everyone into a hashtag. Thor and Loki also specifically die.

Fun fact about Norse lore, prophecies HAD to happen. That's why Loki killed Baldr, it was fated and had to happen.

Interesting thing to waste valuable twilight time on, when the thread can be locked at any moment without warning.

[House]

Flea wouldn't be a terrible "hero shot"... unless fae flips town.

I can't get a handle on faer.

[House]

Sounds like the theme music for a 50's style slapstick comedy.

[House]

Auro basically guaranteed his own elimination if MM is a red flip with the way he dropped his d1 scumread of her like it was a hot potato and started lamenting her wagon toDay.

[House]

MM red = Thor bullet
MM green = flea bullet

That's a thought.

flea is a bad shot if MM flips red, though. Scum might make that kill, themselves.

[House]

shortaru

[House]

GG all

Ty, Dats!