Open 833: Twin Trap [Postgame]

[Noraa]

VOTE: NM

NMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Noraa]

Thread quality -400%

bro what excuse me?

[Noraa]

I haven't read up and dont really plan to but idk what ur on. NM has some pretty sexy reads despite the fact that he doesn't post much. So get ur facts straight.

[Noraa]

VOTE: Norwee

If you tell me I'm the fluffiest tsunami, I'll forgive you for saying NMs opening post isn't top quality

[Noraa]

I haven't read up and dont really plan to but idk what ur on. NM has some pretty sexy reads despite the fact that he doesn't post much. So get ur facts straight.

You won't read 5 pages?
Somehow I respect it

Hmm. Sure ok I'll just stay in your pocket for the time being. Don't do anything fishy- I'm watching

If you tell me I'm the fluffiest tsunami, I'll forgive you for saying NMs opening post isn't top quality

Did the mosquito buzzing in my ears say something?

Woah woah woah there. Wow ok friendship with Norwee absolutely over right here right now. Read wise, EH idk. I don't see what deimos is saying but this here is simply offensive >:p

[Noraa]

Well i don’t see the tsunami yet.

We can't be friends no more.

[Noraa]

I'm comfortable voting anyone that's not Norway - they had the first votes.

What do you even mean by this??

[Noraa]

Is the first elimination always town? Because how are you supposed to know who's who?

Because I find it easier to believe that this is scum poorly faking noobtown than town with two completed games already still making such a noobish comment.

Have you done any meta? I mean I know that I liked pulling noob cards a lot when I first started out. So I see what you mean but at the same time, I also think most people actually start out with a bunch of town games so are naturally a little more lost.

[Noraa]

I liked pulling noob cards a lot

as scum typically

[Noraa]

I'm town

NMMMMMMMMM I've come to sheep you :333
I will catch you up!
Currently there is scummy alarm bells on Norwee for saying im not the fluffiest tsunami.
Deimos towny
I've skipped all of redtea's posts
Kop's one post towny.
Game state kinda ded.

[Noraa]

I did no more than glance at those games to make sure it was in fact town who got eliminated D1. I'd say after Dorsey's subsequent posts the tell has further deteriorated in value because they have shown their mentality is going to remain consistent.

Don't get this logic but ok. I'll just wait for NM's input on this u-u

[Noraa]

The way people jump to attack mode is weird. You literally know nothing - why so aggressive? Noraa, Deimos.

VOTE: Noraa

ehh choosing to jump on me is the much easier route here despite the fact that Deimos has pushed you far more if you can even consider my one post pushing to begin with. Ok real time SR now. take that >:O

[Noraa]

VOTE: Dorsey

MINDMELD WITH NM. Ok Dorsey confscum now.
VOTE: Dorsey

[Noraa]

The way people jump to attack mode is weird. You literally know nothing - why so aggressive? Noraa, Deimos.

VOTE: Noraa

I'm probably going to ignore you some more. I have no idea what you asked me.

Nah, I'm good

These posts are all scumclaims

Agreed.

[Noraa]

This wagon is super good except I have an issue with one vote. It's ok though. We'll figure out who's scum bussing tomorrow

[Noraa]

I'm trying very hard not to insult Dorsey which is why I didn't want to spell it out, but the point is that if you make a super noobtown post then obviously it's very +scum to later make posts that reveal you were all along capable of coherent logical thought

Is it? Ok this discussion is gonna go a bit off topic. And I still think Dorsey is scum but I like self meta. I know that my town game has been described as "wants to leave a strong first impression to get town reads" and my first two games ever were all scum games so I learned how to be scum first. I feel like that kind of lead to be liking the noob card even as town. But under pressure, my analysis normally does get deeper? Idk my meta is all over the place at this point.

[Noraa]

I would greatly appreciate not hammering before Kop has more than literally 2 posts and A50 has to produce actual game-related content

UNVOTE:
There in spirit

[Noraa]

TA I'm lost and you're my only tr can you shed light

Doesn't make sense for town to vote me over you if they think the SR on them is bad. For me, it reminds me of how as scum I like to poke and prod around to see where town's weak spots are. I hate to use this other reason but oh well. The flailing came a bit early. I feel bad for saying that as someone who has literally been tunneled to hell and back for reasons like this but I do think it still applies to some extent here.

[Noraa]

Noraa, were you aware that you placed the hammer vote?

Oh geez that was hammer? I love hammering but I was not aware of this one, no.

[Noraa]

Ok sure, though they explained that they voted you because you already had a vote. That seems reasonable to me.

Why is that reasonable? I they took issue with the SR on them, they should be voting the person they think is most likely to be scum (the pusher which now I'm confused since you dont think Dorsey is scum? since apparently the push is bad) as opposed to whoever is more likely to be elimmed. The day is still early and it doesn't make sense to already be thinking about that.

[Noraa]

I think they’re hammered.
I’ll reserve any judgement made, until i see the flip.

... When did the meta on this site become D1 flashwagon elims

A while ago but I didn't mean to hammer. I'm not really used to 5 to hammer on day so I thought we were far from hammering.

[Noraa]

They seem to believe that the pressure exerted by the vote is currently more valuable than the probability that the target of the vote is scum.

But that's straight up scum mentality.

[Noraa]

2 votes isn't pressure though and either way it doesn't really matter. Pretty sure this is just flipping scum.

[Noraa]

Why Kop

[Noraa]

He had more analysis in one post here than he did in his whole iso in some other game where he wasn't town.

[Noraa]

ok thats inaccurate not more analysis. But Kop asks too many questions when he isn't town. Guessing his scum meta is the im innocent and know nothing game

[Noraa]

she/they please

[Noraa]

That is not what I was expecting

Well this is scummy. You've had a whole night to process the flip and you're saying Dorsey flipping town is surprising?

[Noraa]

I dont think this matters too much at this point but yesterday the person I mentioned that might be scum with Dorsey was Almost50.
The monkey's tone was pretty strange this game but being pr checks out for that.

Deimos' first two posts scream scum to me but that's also how I felt about Dorsey so we'll hold that thought for a bit.

[Noraa]

Pray tell why you would assume my comment pertained to the Dorsey flip instead of the almost50 nk, especially given all the context immediately following?

almost was literally almost certainly not vt by tone and the way he was so slippery feeling. i dont see how anyone can look back and be like oh its surprising almost was a pr.

[Noraa]

Noraaaaaa

Yes Norwee?

[Noraa]

I refuse to believe Dorsey's town flip and will play the rest of the game believing this is a 3 scum set-up

Ok this is what I think about the game. You tell me what you think. We'll mesh it and solve.

I think Kop is town. It just doesn't feel like scum him.
I think Tamara is town. Reminds me of a town Ydrasse. A little bit of paranoia but overall, the vibes are towny.
Scum in [Norwee, Deimos, Redtea]
There's two scum in there.

[Noraa]

Kop can you tell me your reads.

Kop is town.

[Noraa]

Norwee how much have you played with Noraa

Norwee got absolutely wrecked by scum me last time I think.

[Noraa]

Noraa why wouldn't you read redtea's posts and can you give a read on them yet

didn't feel like it

[Noraa]

But they're unlikely to be confbiasing because they expressed a tr on me D1 so it's more likely these posts come from a scum agenda.

hahahahahahah this applies to you far better than myself unfortunately

[Noraa]

i have hw but i'll be back later probably

[Noraa]

But they're unlikely to be confbiasing because they expressed a tr on me D1 so it's more likely these posts come from a scum agenda.

hahahahahahah this applies to you far better than myself unfortunately

Please don't laugh at me. How does it apply to me? Did I TR you D1? Is my argument relying on a misinterpretation of you so blatantly uncharitable it must be confbias or scum agenda?

I can't stay for long but what do you even mean dont laugh at me? You're literally the one who went from "you're my only TR" to "you're scum" and now you're pointing at me like HOW DARE YOU REVERSE YOUR READ ON ME.

[Noraa]

ok actually i just got home and showered. i'll hopefully be more online tomorrow.

[Noraa]

Deimos how familiar are you with A50? Have you played games with them?

A50 is normally pretty chatty and openly suspicious of everyone. That's why I thought he was scum this game especially after the vote on Dorsey (who I thought would flip scum, but even as town, the argument still applies except for the fact that a50 flipped town) I played a couple yeah.

I refuse to believe Dorsey's town flip and will play the rest of the game believing this is a 3 scum set-up

KING

#282 reads like it was ghostwritten by Dorsey

Sexy roast. No it really doesn't and I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption.

Pray tell why you would assume my comment pertained to the Dorsey flip instead of the almost50 nk, especially given all the context immediately following?

almost was literally almost certainly not vt by tone and the way he was so slippery feeling. i dont see how anyone can look back and be like oh its surprising almost was a pr.

I said "almost50

nk

" how is this even being twisted into me being surprised that he's pr instead of being surprised he was the NK choice at all.

These posts look so agenda driven it's kind of mindnumbing

That's the exact same thing. I don't really want to spell out the typical behavior of prs for scum but had I not known A50's meta, I would've thought he was a pr instead of scum.

Pray tell why you would assume my comment pertained to the Dorsey flip instead of the almost50 nk, especially given all the context immediately following?

almost was literally almost certainly not vt by tone and the way he was so slippery feeling. i dont see how anyone can look back and be like oh its surprising almost was a pr.

So you thought he was PR from yesterday?

No yesterday I was convinced he was scum.

This wagon is super good except I have an issue with one vote. It's ok though. We'll figure out who's scum bussing tomorrow

Can you say what this was, now that we knot it was town?

:3

[Noraa]

Kop can you tell me your reads.

Kop is town.

No thanks.

You explain it please.

Kop asks too many questions when he isn't town. Guessing his scum meta is the im innocent and know nothing game

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Pray tell why you would assume my comment pertained to the Dorsey flip instead of the almost50 nk, especially given all the context immediately following?

almost was literally almost certainly not vt by tone and the way he was so slippery feeling. i dont see how anyone can look back and be like oh its surprising almost was a pr.

That is not what I was expecting

Well this is scummy. You've had a whole night to process the flip and you're saying Dorsey flipping town is surprising?

I think these posts are actually very interesting cause there's 0 chance anyone else misunderstood me; the context is super obvious. So it tells us Noraa is either confbiasing me or driving a lim on me out of scum agenda.

But they're unlikely to be confbiasing because they expressed a tr on me D1 so it's more likely these posts come from a scum agenda.

Nahhhhhhhh that was a pretty reasonable thing to assume. In hindsight, A50 is not at all a strange kill but I don't think elaborating on that is a good idea at this point in time. I actually dont believe I expressed a TR on you d1. My opinion of my read on you was that it was surface level towny. By no means a TR. Surface level towny and town towny are super different things.

[Noraa]

Oh actually I think it's ok to say why since one of our prs is dead. That means the scum team can just always have the one that cant be tracked kill so it doesn't even benefit them.

Actually it does benefit them since they still want the other pr dead anyways. Mmm no not worth it.

[Noraa]

Why would it be from a scum agenda?
And tbf, i didn’t really know myself whether your first comment was referring to the D1 flip, the nightkill, or both.

I have the perception of being fairly townread at the moment and so there is scum motivation to eliminate me (or otherwise sow discord and prevent a townblock from forming that includes me). I could obviously be wrong about being townread, but in any case I also know I am town and that alone is scum motivation to eliminate me.

Furthermore the argument was that it must be scum agenda

because

it cannot be town-motivated and scum agenda is the only option that remains.

I apparently stand corrected about the level of ambiguity my first post contained but surely you find it weird that Noraa

assumed

one uncharitable interpretation over any other instead of asking, and then proceeded even to somehow misread my follow-up explanation and misinterpret in a different uncharitable way?

Let me sum up your argument for you. "I am town. Therefore SRs on me come from scum"
If you think that as town, thats a bit disappointing. Ftr since we're talking about yesterday, I think your positioning around the Dorsey wagon was pretty scummy. I wanted to say this earlier just felt like it'd look OMGUSy.

Yesterday, you basically started the wagon. But then somehow at the end of the day, it seemed like you were the most against the wagon.
You were looking a lot like stubborn town who needed convincing on scum dorsey.
But with a town flip, it 100% looks like scum not wanting to take any part in a town elimination.
Then you start off this day with a vote on me.

This all looks exactly like what someone who feels extremely guilty would do. Like immediately shift attention to the person who hammered on accident. Which to be honest, my scum game is really fucking good. I dont just lolhammer like that. In fact I'm willing to bet the number of times I've hammered as scum is like less than a fourth the amount I've hammered as town. I always see hammers as the person who is responsible and scum me does not want to take responsibility for shit.

I see you as extremely scummy right now and if you are town, you need to realize that you aren't towny in my eyes and that doesn't make me scum. If we dont get a scum elimination today, tomorrow is elo so if you're town, you need to work with me.

[Noraa]

I have the perception of being fairly townread at the moment and so there is scum motivation to eliminate me (or otherwise sow discord and prevent a townblock from forming that includes me). I could obviously be wrong about being townread, but in any case I also know I am town and that alone is scum motivation to eliminate me.

Furthermore the argument was that it must be scum agenda because it cannot be town-motivated and scum agenda is the only option that remains.

I don't see how it is scum motivation

just

wanting to eliminate you. Dorsey scumread you, and that clearly wasn't scum motivation.

I don't see why scum Norwee defends me here. Norwee have you played any games with me where I was town? (besides the most recent gensoko or whatever it was called)

[Noraa]

Noraa i'm waiting for answers to my questions when you get back.

Answered ~

[Noraa]

Yesterday's "oh geez" accidental hammer needs to be held accountable and that is why I am voting Noraa. They need to be at least on the table for elimination today.

I might be tunneled but bruh wtf. You sound like whiny scum like whining WHY ISNT THIS TOWN MISLIMMABLE.

It's also a strange thing to say given only Norwee has expressed a TR on me as of today.

[Noraa]

I'm not going to go too deep into it now, but i have an method of reading Noraa that i think is pretty good. But it requires some more input from them.

Your meta is probably out of date but I mean idk how you get ur reads but if I'm a tr, we can just say the method is right
You should tell me what the tell is. I love self meta >.<

[Noraa]

but also like, he clearly made that first comment BEFORE isoing aka "looking back at" almost50, sooo what's your deal exactly?

uhhhhhhh ok? how does that have to do with anything

[Noraa]

But they're unlikely to be confbiasing because they expressed a tr on me D1 so it's more likely these posts come from a scum agenda.

hahahahahahah this applies to you far better than myself unfortunately

this sounds ridiculous and if you want anyone to take it seriously you better do some PbPA

I dont know what PbPA is but it really doesn't so like..

[Noraa]

But they're unlikely to be confbiasing because they expressed a tr on me D1 so it's more likely these posts come from a scum agenda.

hahahahahahah this applies to you far better than myself unfortunately

this sounds ridiculous and if you want anyone to take it seriously you better do some PbPA

What?

MINDMELD NUMERO DOS!!!
Ok Norwee ur my soul mason starting today.

[Noraa]

Nora's post sounds baseless and omgus

lol if the scum team is actually deimos and redtea, they're making this too easy

[Noraa]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Could be but NM is an asset to town until proven scum so no I'd rather not. I'll try to poke him a bit today to get some content.

[Noraa]

In my experience scum likes not to post in twilight when they haven't already established a recent presence in thread because it's just less cognitive load to wait when you know day will end soon anyway than to show up and fake more posts.

yeah but of course this doesn't apply to noraa ..... because she's mislim bait :3

well anyways I hope you're town

[Noraa]

@Norwee I think the wagon is fine. NM hasn't been doing much but he does have great reads so I'm not really interested in elimming him. I think pressure is fine and hopefully we get some content out of him.

If he is being super quiet, I'll have to think about it more because then I'll feel like it's my fault if town loses by hammering town NM in elo. But I'll also feel like it's my fault if scum NM gets hard defended by me and wins the game. So that's a kinda sucky situation to put myself in.

[Noraa]

Anyway.
VOTE: Kop for now.

Why?

I don't see why scum Norwee defends me here. Norwee have you played any games with me where I was town? (besides the most recent gensoko or whatever it was called)

It is true that you’ve disproportionately have been scum in our previous games, but that should hopefully make it easier for me to recognize.
You were town in the boon game.

That was the one where I got really frustrated day 1 and self hammered wasn't it @_@

[Noraa]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Could be but NM is an asset to town until proven scum so no I'd rather not. I'll try to poke him a bit today to get some content.

I'm not seeing how NM is an asset right now. Don't get me wrong, he can be a liability as town but I feel a bit PoE on his slot.

His reads that I've seen in past games have all been game winning. I mean obviously we need to wait and let this day play out and see what happens. But just in general, currently I do think we should leave him be.

Yesterday's "oh geez" accidental hammer needs to be held accountable and that is why I am voting Noraa. They need to be at least on the table for elimination today.

I agree Noraa can't live until elo.

Dont worry my slot should self resolve pretty soon.

[Noraa]

All your points are null but I dont see any reason to continue this discussion unless there anyone else agrees with me on deimos scum. Whether or not I'm right, if it's not happening today, it's not happening and there's no point in this because all it does is either get town Deimos tunneled on me or give scum Deimos a good reason to tunnel me. I have no interest in a townread from deimos I just find most of his posts annoying and it makes me want to vote him out really badly. None of the logic honestly makes any sense to me but you know what, it's whatever.

VOTE: redtea

What do people think about this

[Noraa]

Nora's post sounds baseless and omgus

enough
VOTE: Nora's
if you flip town I won't be happy

[Noraa]

Ok actually redtea's ISO is much worse than I originally thought now having read thru some of it after looking for that quote.

[Noraa]

Basically all of redteas iso is just agreeing with someone or shading people.

spicy idea

Nope. That's not the problem.

I don't reference ongoing or use things I can't point to. How do you think you've changed?

tfw you hit submit a second too late

fair enough

(this isn't copy-pasted from my other post like this, this is paraphrased using my memory):

Spoiler:

I've been trying to find a balance between more casual play and tryharding, because doing the latter all the time gets stressful eventually bc of the expectations I put on myself; knowing the effect lurking can have on your slot is additional pressure. In an effort to keep having fun, I've been experimenting with my playstyle, to mixed results. I'm still figuring it out the ideal effort/fun/results ratio.

I haven't read up and dont really plan to but idk what ur on. NM has some pretty sexy reads despite the fact that he doesn't post much. So get ur facts straight.

true facts

, he hasn't led me astray yet I think.
Then again I don't know if I've played against scum!NM recently if at all. For all I know scum!NM can't even be found without finding his buddies first. That's the impression I've been getting from others.

I want to vote the monkey. There's evidence to suggest he's evil, and his personality is not preferable.

VOTE: Almost50

Lol jk VOTE: Kop Let's figure out who's bad

I have time, let's talk. What should we discuss?

what made kop seem like a better start over a50?

personally, i keep trying to see if nm can be sorted early but i haven't been able to get that to happen yet.

Even for page 6 I think you are concerningly IIoA. There's an obsessiveness with self-meta and a complete absence of any semblance of an attempt to sort another player

Maybe because that's exactly what I was doing? Specifically shooting down weird analysis with easily accessible information?

okay, never mind. You're right.

It's only worth anything if meta is something someone wants to or has the time to do. And if they don't then yeah, what I'm saying is useless. If I had accompanying commentary that didn't require that extra reading it would be one thing, but I didn't.

I got annoyed people don't automatically want to play the way I'm playing and it was dumb. If you pings were felt from whatever was in my first few posts you got pings. And if you get pings from THIS post, that's how it is.

I apologize.

looking at Dorsey's iso, I was hella ignored so
VOTE: Dorsey

eek

is nm pocketing me?

Nah, I'm good

mod should let me vote twice just for this

shade

Norwee how much have you played with Noraa

A couple of games.

Upon re-reading D1 I shouldn't have bothered asking because you are likely town

if norwee seems town he's probably scum
but trying to sort norwee early doesnt seem to turn out well so don't expect me to go after him

[quote="In"post 287, Noraa"]

Pray tell why you would assume my comment pertained to the Dorsey flip instead of the almost50 nk, especially given all the context immediately following?

almost was literally almost certainly not vt by tone and the way he was so slippery feeling. i dont see how anyone can look back and be like oh its surprising almost was a pr.

what Deimos said about this

but also like, he clearly made that first comment BEFORE isoing aka "looking back at" almost50, sooo what's your deal exactly?[/quote]

SHADE

But they're unlikely to be confbiasing because they expressed a tr on me D1 so it's more likely these posts come from a scum agenda.

hahahahahahah this applies to you far better than myself unfortunately

this sounds ridiculous and if you want anyone to take it seriously you better do some PbPA

Shade~

Nora's post sounds baseless and omgus

Shade ^^

if norwee seems town he's probably scum
but trying to sort norwee early doesnt seem to turn out well so don't expect me to go after him

So are you null on him rn or what?

functionally

So you saying you think my play is townie but that is something you think is scummy for me?

Sorta
I thiiiink if you sound towny but relatively sober (not in an alcohol consumption sense), that points towards scum!you

Shade~~

fair enough ig

VOTE: Not_Mafia so he can show up and do something so I can unvote him again

[Noraa]

I actually think the reason I think Deimos is scum applies much better to redtea here. Like all those votes look opportunistic as fuck and they're unwilling to give a single straight up read?? That iso is PACKED with shade.

Like the thing is. Redtea is clearly reading. But they aren't actually contributing anything to the game. All of the posts are agreeing with shit that doesn't matter or shading people/refusing to actually give reads. The level of engagement with the thread and the 1 dimensional reads do not match up ESPECIALLY given that join date. Like there really is no excuse here. You wanna mark Deimos off as stubborn town, sure I can believe it. This is really different. This has nothing to do with stubbornness. This is clear engagement with the thread and no legitimate thought process besides pocketing and poking around looking for soft spots

[Noraa]

Also I'm actually trying really fucking hard to obvtown and put my thought process out there so I'd appreciate it if I actually got some replies so I don't feel like I'm going insane and actually have someone to bounce shit off of?

[Noraa]

Ok here lets rise the stakes because I think I'm definitely right. If redtea is town, elim me tomorrow.
I dont think I'm wrong because this behavior just doesn't come from town.

Actually thats sort of game throwing idk if I can say that but that's how certain I am. Redtea's play checks off all the boxes in the scum checklist here. agreeable, floaty, shady, uncertain, every. single. box.

[Noraa]

But also my tinfoil hat is making me wonder if this could still be Noraa + redtea

You can just throw that stupid hat away. I dont bus my buddy like this.

[Noraa]

Some of these posts are suspicious

Continue!

[Noraa]

@TA, chime in on my argument for limming Kop at some point. The TL;DR was that if you tr me, Norwee, and Noraa it only takes the additional premiss of not!(scum!redtea & scum!NM) to guarantee Kop-scum.

I can't go with not!scum NM. Noraa feels town by her play today but it's hard to trust after the hammer. I have seen those hammers come from town. That's why I am not voting Noraa.

So that leaves me with you and EE as solid town.

Pool of Noraa, redtea, Kop, NM.

That means looking through to see who I can eliminate.

If you're basis of reads is based off of votes, yikes

[Noraa]

In a pool of {redtea, Kop, NM} that's enough to guarantee Kop being scum. In a pool of {Noraa, redtea, Kop, NM) it guarantees at least 1 scum in {Noraa, Kop}

This logic is totally wack

[Noraa]

I don't read the game like that unless absolutely forced to or scum are eliminated. With no content from NM it would be hard to eliminate him as partners with anyone.

Ok, I know I'm not in the majority by doing associatives without flips. Did you read the argument for why redtea's voting behaviour does imply they're not with NM though? I feel they should've voted Noraa instead of NM (back when they did so) if they were teammates with NM because they had been shading Noraa so much in the posts prior.

By your logic, red tea is scum with everyone in the game that they haven't voted because they've shaded everyone.

Like the thing is your reads are so messed up. Like your elim pool isn't even an elim pool. You dont have a single good reason to scum read kop whereas I have a good reason to townread them (pending confirmation since theres a replacement who i dont know)

The logic is so fucked up I dont even know where to start picking it apart.

[Noraa]

the pivot from Deimos to redtea was a ! moment.

I still scum read Deimos. I'm just realizing he's annoying me a bunch so I'm laying off to give my brain time to think.

[Noraa]

im here now

Fenny!!!

[Noraa]

Fennyfennyfennnyy
I am town here so I hope you are too. Pls help me find scum :3

[Noraa]

i take it you haven't got to the part where I'm scumreading you (and misspelled your name like a dumbass)

oh fun well thats ok as long as you're town. I have confidence in my obvtowning abilities

[Noraa]

Redtea/NM is the new cool solve.

But I like NM and I like Fenny

[Noraa]

don't like "i wouldn't have hammered as scum!" + "i didn't realize i was the hammer!" + "aha i've caught you now, deimos!"

You go find a time I hammered any wagon as scum. I'm quite sure that there are either none or an EXTREMELY small number. I dont do it because I pay so much attention to every little detail as scum that isn't too mech-y

And deimos was scummy af so ..

[Noraa]

guess that means it's noraa and redtea

-_____-

[Noraa]

Yeah because i was trying to replicate tenet but overall its very NAI

[Noraa]

Though there is also the take that Redtea has so many scumreads on him already that it seems hard to believe he couldn’t be town.

Can I get that applied to me too please

[Noraa]

Redtea isnt either

[Noraa]

fun fact: I am a twin :3

I was not aware of this!!

[Noraa]

Pretty sure that redtea’s just scum. The people calling him that are towny and this game has a weak little POE remaining.

Why do you think redtea is scum

[Noraa]

Vulture is quickly destroying my TR on Kop. Regardless of redtea's alignment, I now see issues with vulture so maybe voting there today would be better.

I'm not sure but I'll think about it. For now UNVOTE: but I'm 100% there in spirit still.

I guess I still have a lot of issues with most of redtea's posts but that's because redtea has an advantage over vulture in that vulture has a pretty nothing nothing predecessor and has only been here for a little.

[Noraa]

shrug

[Noraa]

But hey, there you go.

inb4 I was right when I joined it's redtea/Noraa and they both work together to get me elimmed today and 480's the walkback on a partner.

That's not how it works because then my scum buddy and i are mega fucked tomorrow but ok king

[Noraa]

I guess I still have a lot of issues with most of redtea's posts but redtea has an advantage over vulture in that vulture has a pretty nothing nothing predecessor and has only been here for a little.

there was a typo

[Noraa]

Like the thing is

Lets say im scum with redtea. There is no world in which I draw attention to redtea when he's floating by just fine. Was there pressure on redtea before I came along? Perhaps yes but barely. Not enough to ever have redtea even be considered "on the table" I have ZERO reason to be hard pushing my buddy. It would literally be better to just focus on pocketing town and stay neutral while saying stuff like "IDKK IM SO LOST IDK WHOSE SCUM TOWN COME GUIDE ME" Town are sympathetic. Town have a lot of empathy. Town is easy to fool because of all of that. Rather than taking the AtE route, scum me decides to just brute force my way through everything? sorry what? I'm literally known for my AtE and manipulation lmao.

[Noraa]

I mean, I've seen it and done it before. I don't think it's a good play, but it is one that's done.

lmao and you think my scum game is bad?

[Noraa]

Looking at the wagon, I think it is a possibility that the scum felt boxed into a degree.

Your scumgame has improved recently, but neither does it make you infalliable/unable to make subpar decisions.

Ur in an alt therefore you have no rights to talk about my meta
Sorry thats how it works

[Noraa]

Bruh you can't do this. Like now I'm curious as fuck but I don't want to dig thru ur ten games to find it goddamn.
We aren't doing this today. Nahh

[Noraa]

Think about what?

[Noraa]

All I know is that you don't know me and I don't know you so there's nothing to think about

[Noraa]

!

exactly

[Noraa]

oh actually I think I know you

[Noraa]

oh hmm.

[Noraa]

Pooooky bear bear??

[Noraa]

Ur pooky bear bear aren't u

[Noraa]

Can't you just tell me

[Noraa]

Why not

[Noraa]

If I guess right will you tell me?

[Noraa]

Ok I found it

[Noraa]

the gig is up ~
or something

[Noraa]

Not sure why you had me do that tbh

[Noraa]

I was looking for something that would help me read you or some sort of testing reaction thing that would be thrown in to sort me that would feel super towny but this just felt more like a failed pocket attempt.

That felt like you were trying to make me look bad also.

[Noraa]

Every time I'm town in a game with you this happens. Ok how about this.
You tell me why you're town and I'll tell you why I'm town. No meta. No nothing. Just facts.

[Noraa]

If you think that I am going to use the past ~10 or so posts as anything other than my own amusement for making you dig for my main account you have a poor understanding of how I function as a player.

Don't think I've ever truly understood you. I've tunneled you as town. Completely misread guilties from you as scum. I dont get your play even though I keep thinking I'm starting to get it.

[Noraa]

At best, giving you the information/making you find it allows you to see better my perspective, particularly regarding my view of you as a scum player.

Perhaps. I always struggle playing with you as town because I'm always so scared of being pocketed and it's kind of stupid because the actual game that you are scum and I am town, I just know I'll get pocketed in an instant. But I also swear we're never the same alignment but maybe alts change that who knows.

[Noraa]

I am town for my contributions thus far. I do not have the strength of a vote/wagon/etc to support this, but at the very least I have proven I am thinking through the pieces of this game and not going with 'easy options' simply because they are easy, but because I believe they are scum.

Your turn.

I am town because I haven't been afraid to take responsibility for my actions. Besides that, there's not much else that's really AI for me at this point. Like there is but at the same time, there isn't. It's all very based on this game and my meta doesn't really support those arguments too much.

[Noraa]

(None of this was done out of ill will, either.)

I didn't take it personally at all.

[Noraa]

Mmm.

I'll sleep on that statement because I don't know if the way you've spoken about your hammer is taking responsibility, but I am bored and tired now, so good night.

I dont really take responsibility for my hammer. It depends on how you define it I guess. I'm more talking about my reads in general

[Noraa]

Ok gn!!

[Noraa]

oh also like when someone's like NORAA THIS IS YOUR FAULT, im way less likely to uh admit to it. Probably way less likely to believe I take any responsibility too.

[Noraa]

vla 1 day

and probably fairly inactive for the rest of the day anyways because halloween

I wanted to do more today I'm just so terribly mad about something (irl) right now and my brain won't let me do anything else. Sorry but ftr I still think redtea is scum here. If redtea isn't scum, vulture is. Could be worthwhile to take that shot today but idk if it's really worth the risk and guilt I'll feel if that is wrong. Idk.

Kop was nothing nothing in post count. Your point?

Also, I dont entirely understand why people townread Norwee. Am I missing something here or what?

[Noraa]

And I guess last reads if this is my last day in the thread for whatever reason:
Noraa
Deimos
Tamara
Fenny
Norwee
Vulture
Redtea

[Noraa]

Dont question the deimos read honestly. I dont want to talk about it.
Anyways that's hopefully it from me for today. If I come back, please tell me to leave I have other things I need to be doing.

[Noraa]

ok this is stupid
VOTE: Vulture
do something

[Noraa]

There's just so many excuses in his ISO like I understand that we get sick. Life happens. But I swear all his last posts have just been "Sorry I'm not posting. I'll post someday"
I guess I also find his defense on me weird now. It kinda feels like it's going for the reverse mindset approach. The more you defend someone, the more someone else will find them scummy type thing

[Noraa]

I'm mostly just reminded of death curse but idk I know I was also having a rough time. Just feel like town is less likely to talk about it in thread. Idk

[Noraa]

Why don’t you tell Noraa that saying i’m sus because of sickness is dumb and opportunistic.

How? There's no wagon on you and no reason to shade you unless I'm scum with redtea but even if i am, there are easily mislims than you?

[Noraa]

I wasn't planning to say anything unless redtea flipped town. Because if redtea flips scum, I 100% agree with the read that he's town. But if redtea flips town, I think any reads that I don't agree with need to be reexamined. Like everyone but me seems to be seeing something but that doesn't convince me of anything at the end of the day. Either way this is a problem and discussion for tomorrow since Norwee isn't happening today.

[Noraa]

I will say that if Norwee is scum the obvious partner would be STD. Norwee's been very resistant to any pressure on NM slot on both days.
That is my sole contribution to future readers in the <1% of worlds where somehow Norwee associatives become relevant.

I definitely think there's scum in vulture/redtea though. Any chance of vulture/norwee? I dont think redtea/norwee makes any sense but the former, eh

[Noraa]

i sort of think redtea might be town right now.

[Noraa]

the overall speed of this wagon is really slow when most people agree with it.
if red tea is scum, p sure I know who the buddy is.
but i think vulture needs to go today instead now.

[Noraa]

er that was worded very poorly

what i meant was that it seems too perfect to be real. my main thing is that i think redtea would've moved the vote off of me by now if scum. no reason to not get some supporters in a time like this. they just aren't trying at all to get TRs and it doesn't feel right.

[Noraa]

if anyone hammers before everyone checks in, thats a scum claim because E-1 is written very clearly there this time.

[Noraa]

I kinda think ur the scum out of the two right now. I could be wrong and I guess we should hope I am otherwise tomorrow is elo. It reads more like town who doesn't know wtf to do than low WIM scum to me at least.

[Noraa]

if anyone hammers before everyone checks in, thats a scum claim because E-1 is written very clearly there this time.

Look who’s talking.

no one said it was e-1. i was not aware. very different situation than what is happening here.

[Noraa]

like today is happening after yesterdays accidental hammer, a warning for E-1, and now a warning from me.
No one should be accidentally hammering today there is no reason.

[Noraa]

I kinda think ur the scum out of the two right now. I could be wrong and I guess we should hope I am otherwise tomorrow is elo. It reads more like town who doesn't know wtf to do than low WIM scum to me at least.

Okay so you're calling me scum but you're not actually saying why.

I dont scum read you as much as I think redtea cant be scum.

[Noraa]

yeah essentially. redtea has done absolutely nothing to pressure. they haven't budged a single bit and thats pretty insane for scum to do.
even if i do think they could be scum with certain people and dont really scum read you, i still think redtea isn't likely scum.

everyone has a chance to be scum so that doesn't apply

[Noraa]

Like what is this change. Lol.

redteas iso is bad. their reaction to pressure is extremely concerning in a very different way and it's been bothering me for a while why everyone just agrees it's scummy. Because when everyone agrees someone is scum, it's either horrible scum or just town.

[Noraa]

those dont clash

[Noraa]

I agree the iso is bad. And I stand by that 100%.
The reaction to the scum reads is strange and it makes more sense that it's just town than anything else because of how weird it is. Like when it was just me, the OMGUS was pretty bad but like if they do it to everyone, then it's not an AI thing. And that's exactly what has been happening here.

[Noraa]

redtea can be scum but not for the reasons that I previously thought.

[Noraa]

Why should we vote Vulture anyways.
@Noraa

vulture/redtea interactions feel fake. doesn't feel tvt

[Noraa]

like what? scum wants to live more than anyone else in the game. i just dont see scum behaving this way and you hard pushing redtea is just not helping in the slightest.

[Noraa]

no there was interactions between the cases. i cant remember if it was direct or not but there was interactions that I found scummy. Initially I thought redtea was scum out of the two but now I'm not so certain

[Noraa]

like what? scum wants to live more than anyone else in the game. i just dont see scum behaving this way and you hard pushing redtea is just not helping in the slightest.

This makes no sense.

I'm hardpushing them. Yes. If they're town they can deign to respond to my case and talk to me instead of saying "just wanted to see what everyone else thinks before I decide if I need to run damage control."

how in the world does that make more sense coming from scum than town? it literally doesn't make sense as either but makes a hell lot more sense as town than scum.

[Noraa]

please hold i am searching

[Noraa]

Also if this flips town, everyone spend this night thinking of all the reasons I DONT do whatever the fuck I just did as scum.
If it flips scum, I'm going to have one hell of an uphill battle tomorrow but I'm ready for it.

Hope catboi doesn't close thread soon

[Noraa]

I read and can go in depth after work, but I am both individually and teamreading redtea and Noraa as scum. Redtea is my preferred vote between the two, as I think Noraa’s personality and approach lends itself to being scumread from me.

But if they’re teamed they just came into today pushing on each other and hard distancing which is funny. I wasn’t sure about this but the pivot from Deimos to redtea was a ! moment.

VOTE: redtea

I dont like this entrance post in hindsight

[Noraa]

Vulture I just want you to know your case on me is atrociously stupid.

This was the response to like 7 different posts. I remember thinking that was a strange interaction.

It could come from different possibilities.
if redtea were town, they were overwhelmed and didnt know what to say
if scum, they wanted to just "end" the argument.

thats the best way to explain how its a negative interaction but it's hard to say who is scum

[Noraa]

Why?

Feels like you did read up...

[Noraa]

The interaction is unsettling in the sense that you are directly SRing while redtea is indirectly SRing. This interaction is just very scummy and likely SvT

TvT doesn't look like this. There is almost always a back and forth that is direct and straight forward for TvT
SvS always looks more natural than this. These are much harder to catch.
Makes the most sense as SvT

[Noraa]

I remember you said you didn't read though

[Noraa]

My bad

[Noraa]

i already answered this and either way it doesn't matter. if you are town, you believe redtea will flip scum so you have nothing to worry about.

[Noraa]

i dont get what the purpose of this even was from town you

[Noraa]

i already answered this and either way it doesn't matter. if you are town, you believe redtea will flip scum so you have nothing to worry about.

Nope, it does matter. You just tried to derail the redtea wagon, so you have to own up to that.

ok i will explain more in depth if redtea flips scum. for now, i can believe what i want and i believe he is town.

[Noraa]

and why it is my fault that their lack of rebuttal to me makes me scum.

scummy interactions always have scum. this read has only failed me once in the past. it is one of my few reads that have been correct throughout games and if you're scum, you know exactly why you're scum.

[Noraa]

i dont get what the purpose of this even was from town you

Purpose of what? Replying to someone who voted me?

Pray tell, what am I supposed to do if not that?

Instead you just asked me why like three times and I replied three times. What do you get from that as town???

[Noraa]

Maybe I should have taken a leaf out of redtea's book and have just called everything you said stupid.

go ahead. it makes perfect sense to me.

[Noraa]

and why it is my fault that their lack of rebuttal to me makes me scum.

scummy interactions always have scum. this read has only failed me once in the past. it is one of my few reads that have been correct throughout games and if you're scum, you know exactly why you're scum.

No, I don't. Lay it out for me because I have yet to understand why you're putting the weight of redtea's inaction and words on my alignment.

your red role pm would be the reason....

[Noraa]

jesus fucking christ.

[Noraa]

I have something I want to say but much wait until after the flip.

[Noraa]

don't forget ta hammered without letting me claim

yeah but i also dont think anyone had you down as pr in their books so I'm not sure it means anything.

[Noraa]

First

[Noraa]

Not sure what I'm thinking atm because it's all a jumble in my head. I'm reassessing my read on Vulture because but they typically aren't that out there. They won't put themselves that out there especially not when certain players like pooky aren't here. I guess I still see Vulture scum but I think that's probably just wrong. The play around redtea was really bad but I think it was town.

[Noraa]

I don't honestly care what happens today as long as we get scum. I desperately don't want to lose this because I'll end up blaming myself for it so today I'm literally all ears for anything and pretending my existing reads just don't exist.

[Noraa]

fuck I was convincing myself it wasn't Fenny overnight now I'm concerned again. Basically this is where I'm at:
I think Fenny doesn't tunnel me if scum
I think Norwee doesn't defend me if scum
I think Tamara has been giving off pure vibes since a long time ago
I think Vulture doesn't engage me head on as scum

These are the points for people being town and out of them, I think Vulture and Fenny's are the strongest but its hard because I also know those two are the ones I know best out of this plist so I'm worried my bias is kicking in rather than my reads actually working shit.

[Noraa]

Still thinking STD.

I think NM was deliberately not playing as scum.

I've seen him play like that as town though. That's why I didn't want to touch his slot. I don't feel like it's really possible to read him off his posts but I also don't know how to read Fenny at the end of the day.

[Noraa]

EE is probably town but if he's not we've imploded too far to catch him.

This is exactly what I feel about you so I hope you aren't scum here because I will actually be so upset.

[Noraa]

STD and Vulture make the most sense.

Noraa feels tonally town.
EE is probably town but if he's not we've imploded too far to catch him.

Can you explain why you think it's STD/Vulture?

If ur town, it is STD/Vulture. I'm assuming Tamara is town here because I've believed and had a straight up and very strong obvtown VT read on them since the beginning of time. I think I wavered on it for a hot sec yesterday but I'm still pretty sure that if there is only one read I have that is and has been right, it's this one.

Since all the prs are dead I might as well just say what my thoughts on the game were regarding the setup. VT more likely to be more out there and not give too shits about seeming obvtown. Prs more likely to feel more reserved and scummy. Scum in this game I would think wouldn't play like VT which is why my TR on Tamara is very strong. Playing like VT is just a pure game that is hard to replicate as scum who know what's going on and is rarely the case. Now that I think I know who Tamara is, I'm not as sure but I still am willing to bet on it. If we lose the game because of this, I'll feel shit but my heart is telling me this is right and my brain seems to agree.

Like basically I think scum could be playing a pr game. Like sounds like a pr but I dont think scum ever sounds like VT unless it's like their personality which I don't believe it is Tamara's personality especially in a plist like this one.

[Noraa]

If Vulture is town I will get quick hammered and the day will end. So I hope that isn't the case here but if I don't, then it confirms that Vulture is scum at least from my perspective.

[Noraa]

Also, they're giving reasons to townread everyone to keep their options open.

What

[Noraa]

Scum me needs one singular townie dead and I win the game with my scum buddy. Giving out town reads does not do that for me whatsoever.

[Noraa]

I could probably get a TR from norwee more easily by SRing him. Either way I only need 1 vote from town on town as scum. There is no reason to be pocketing everyone.

[Noraa]

Because paranoia is townie and there's no better way to become UTR than to convince the people who SR you that you are town.

[Noraa]

Everyone's online and pooky isn't in this game. From everyone else's perspective, {Vulture, Noraa} has confscum in it. No one vote for now I dont want to be the elo mislim please.

[Noraa]

Norwee, lets say your holding a red role pm, what would you be doing right now?

[Noraa]

Behavior and vibe wise what do you do

[Noraa]

ok lets say its elo and theres a townie who's been waffley on you slot. You could get their vote or you could make them a mislim. What do you do and why?

[Noraa]

Hm ok that wasn't satisfying but I'm ok with the answer I guess.

[Noraa]

No not really I just wanted to know if my suspicion on Fenny's opening post meant anything. Seeing different perspectives helps. I just wanted to see what you'd say given you dont know what exactly I'm getting at.

My opinion is basically just that his opening posts were very scummy in the sense that it's like oh maybe noraa is town which TRs often lead to a TR back. But then I also find his recent post scummy because it looks opportunistic. So now I'm worried because I dont want to be a mislim but I also dont want to cause a mislim because either one ends up losing town the game which I've done too many times.

[Noraa]

Well I am thinking about if it's Fenny/Vulture or Norwee/Vulture. Either is possible but Vulture is confirmed scum right now.

I just poked at Fenny and there was no reaction. What this tells me is that it definitely cannot be Norwee/Fenny because even if scum were being sly and wanted to see if town could get the mislim through on our own, they would start worrying at this point and just quick hammer. And I'm pretty certain both players are online currently, maybe not checking the game but I feel like the scum pt would be a necessary check especially on an elo day.
Vulture has to be scum here otherwise scum would've hammered me.
If you believe im town, elim vulture with me. VOTE: Vulture Getting the votes may be hard but we lose if we dont get a scum flip today. The flip must be 100% guaranteed and Vulture is a 100% guaranteed scum flip for myself and ANYONE who townreads me. Vulture's flip also conftowns me so I die overnight but that's ok because I have more faith in basically anyone but myself in the grand finale.

Fenny/Vulture would mean the scum team didn't really do a good job with associations. I think this is the most likely but it also just means the scum team was always in a shitty position but managed to get by because of the game's overall deadness.

Fenny/Norwee might lose us the game. I never really understood the Norwee TRs but this could easily lose us the game given how consensus the Norwee TR is.

If its Tamara/anyone, we're all fucked. But I dont think this is ever true. Scum cant make every post sound genuine and curious. I dont think even pooky bear bear can do it.

[Noraa]

Norwee is scum here. Scum dont both vote me here. That's a gambit that's just too fucking risky. It's possible but not likely they would be betting both of their lives on town hammering me and if it fails, they instantly lose tomorrow. Fenny please unvote now otherwise I get hammered and we lose this game right now.

[Noraa]

Fenny. unvote.

[Noraa]

Dude if you dont unvote before Norwee gets here, I'm dead and game over.

[Noraa]

Actually I feel like Norwee hammers me even if he is town. Fuck. Shit.

Ok but would scum pile on me here? Like that's a huge gambit. Agh

[Noraa]

Fenrir fucking unvote now. Norwee isn't online if you're town you need to unvote NOW.

[Noraa]

Bro I am literally shaking

[Noraa]

Fenny if you dont unvote in five minutes, I'm taking it as a scum claim.

[Noraa]

(expired on 2021-11-04 15:22:38)

[Noraa]

VOTE: Fenrir

[Noraa]

Er VOTE: Savethedragons

[Noraa]

ok that's ridiculous

[Noraa]

Thats equivalent to timer goes off.

[Noraa]

If Fenny is scum, he's scum with Vulture and they're betting on Norwee hammering and ending the day. If it fails, they are mech guiltied and lose the game.

If Fenny is town, Vulture is scum with Norwee, who will hammer the moment he checks the thread.

Vulture is confirmed scum. Tamara, vote Vulture with me. We'll get Fenny or Norwee to vote with us regardless of if it's a bus. A scum flip is a scum flip regardless of buses.

[Noraa]

could it be {vulture, norwee}

If you're town, thats what it is and I've been saying this since forever and you just realized that???

[Noraa]

vulture and noraa aren't the same alignment (duh i know)

i think noraa TMI'd their kop read tho

Duh and thats pretty dumb. Kop was towny in his posts and also you called that exact post towny like a while ago so make up your mind.

[Noraa]

vulture and noraa aren't the same alignment (duh i know)

i think noraa TMI'd their kop read tho

Duh and thats pretty dumb. Kop was towny in his posts and also you called that exact post towny like a while ago so make up your mind.

[Noraa]

vulture and noraa aren't the same alignment (duh i know)

i think noraa TMI'd their kop read tho

Duh and thats pretty dumb. Kop was towny in his posts and also you called that exact post towny like a while ago so make up your mind.

[Noraa]

could it be {vulture, norwee}

If you're town, thats what it is and I've been saying this since forever and you just realized that???

ta was still on the table for me

ta could still be partners with you

Yeah because that makes a whole lot of sense

[Noraa]

This wifi sexy af

[Noraa]

Yeah and you think scum me is this direct?

[Noraa]

Lol you know that's not even remotely true. Ok lets see that evidence lmao

[Noraa]

Ok I look forward to seeing how you twist my meta.

[Noraa]

It is given I was not directly asking people for their votes thats not how scumme works. I will give my all to elim you today and your buddy can kill me tonight after I'm conftowned.

[Noraa]

i was in that game i know they've done this

And you think defending buddies is the same thing as asking people directly for their votes... ok then

[Noraa]

Like Fenny I dont fucking like openly pocket people in the most obvious ways possible as scum. My scum game is actually good and you should know that especially given I fooled you good last game

[Noraa]

??????????????? What