Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Gamma Emerald]

oh shit

VOTE: VP Baltar
GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN!

[Gamma Emerald]

If i was maf I would put Innocent Child, Jailkeeper and Tracker. More optimal i think.

lolno
Unless you have v high faith in your ability to hunt down TPR before you get whittled down to one I think IC vig cop is pretty much always optimal

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote Iconeum

If I was a double voter VP would get my other vote.

This means you're not sure of either, because if you were you'd be packing up both votes on your confident read. (Smart monkey is SMART, eh?)

Word.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi to all who said hi!

Vote Iconeum

If I was a double voter VP would get my other vote.

Go on....


Pooky, on a scale of 1-10, how much do you want to fight me after Hidden Temple?

Same question to gamma.

1
I’m pretty sure I shitunneled you at one point and it was wrong so want to be more workable if possible

[Gamma Emerald]

So. I FINALLY got to open the setup wiki page (by chance) and discovered it's not the setup I had in mind!!

So.. what is the name of the setup where Town started with 2 PRs and for every PR scum picks for themselves (up to 3) Town gains an additional PR??

P.S. Not trying to "townslip". Genuine question though. Consider it NAI

Stack the Deck

[Gamma Emerald]

IF anyone intends to run Donner Party anytime soon, please invite me

I enjoyed my last play of that setup, I got to be town cannibal lecter and munched scum n1 like a pro

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Fun and games

Serious vote.

Why? I remember you were in Betrayal

[Gamma Emerald]

Imo i will be spectical about all claims.

It's next to impossible to counterclaim. So Vig claim in game without Vig is practically impossible to caught without all PR claims.

FYI probably don’t CC a cop claim on D1 either, instead get the check off and then CC

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not rlly getting similar vibe to HoS_S from enchant rn + think he’s more likely to get sussed very early D1 as town based on the NEP game I played
And not rlly surprised you say that about me and don’t see any real meaning to you seeing me that way

[Gamma Emerald]

I just read the scum PT from mini 2246 and I’m pretty happy datisi ID’d I was his traitor pretty effectively

[Gamma Emerald]

I luv ur pfp f&g

[Gamma Emerald]

I can kinda see it

[Gamma Emerald]

Who the hell is jingle.

Bingle is Jingle, and Jingle is Bingle
He brings the cool and the muscle.

[Gamma Emerald]

A50 had me thinking he was traitor too
I suspect that was his plan all along lol

[Gamma Emerald]

Would it be wrong to townblock Datisi/Icon/VP already?

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma, why do you think ico is town?

I get a sense he’s not worried about making a good impression

[Gamma Emerald]

A50 I feel like you need a name from the Title Fairy but I don't know what

Monkey Business?

[Gamma Emerald]

what's the game connection?

For the title? It fits his way of being funny and unpredictable

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not rlly getting similar vibe to HoS_S from enchant rn + think he’s more likely to get sussed very early D1 as town based on the NEP game I played

I can kinda see it

These are both about enchant, right?

Yeah
To clarify I see the point about the immediate setup comment but in HoS_S it was also like, a distancing ploy? And Enchant getting pressure like this early I think is town-indicating for him ngl

[Gamma Emerald]

And Enchant getting pressure like this early I think is town-indicating for him ngl

Wouldn't the peeps doing the pressuring be more likely to be scum then?

I don’t think so per se

[Gamma Emerald]

Subject: Open 829: Nightless Exploder Pandemonium II - Endgame

VC 1.01

PookyTheMagicalBear (0)-

Pavowski (0)-

Dwlee99 (0)-

innocentvillager (0)-

PenguinPower (0)-

Bingle (0)-

Datisi (0)-

charlemagne (1)-

datsi

Lukewarm (0)-

marcistar (0)-

datsi (0)-

Enchant (7)-

PookyTheMagicalBear,

PenguinPower, Dwlee99, innocentvillager

, Bingle, marcistar, charlemagne -

ELIMINATED

Not Voting (4)-

Pavowski, Datisi, Lukewarm, Enchant

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-10-18 22:30:00)

- Oct 18th 22:30 GMT

Actually VP has a point

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm not sure that meme of a game is the perfect example to be drawing these conclusions from

but i am personally more interested in how you were thinking that enchant is more likely to receive pressure as town, while they were being pressured by two people you put into your townblock

Think of how long it took to actually get the wagon on enchant to be a thing in HoS_S, that’s what I’m basing this on, him getting wagoned early is a towntell and despite it not going very far I saw seed for it starting to happen

[Gamma Emerald]

Enchant seems to enjoy being scum more and as such makes it harder to wagon him when he’s scum, he’s more passive about it as town I think (I can’t rlly substantiate this)

[Gamma Emerald]

i dunno scum enchant is p passive afair

If you’re just basing that on radio buzz he replaced into an already SR scumslot

[Gamma Emerald]

What what do you think I hope to get out of “white knighting” enchant, skitter?

[Gamma Emerald]

Holy shit

Skitter is a tiger (tora) and Pooky is a bear (kuma)
That makes Kumatora! I’m now a very big fan of the Fun and Games hydra

[Gamma Emerald]

why do people SR dats, this feels like real thought process

[Gamma Emerald]

why do people SR dats, this feels like real thought process

people scumread me?

I think one person did tbh

I just realised there's no Pooky in game.

Bingle fooled me to vote invisible person.

lol this is towm

[Gamma Emerald]

TRADE OFFER

YOU:
VOTE: Sleep Ass

ME:
Townreading you

may I haggle for you to say why?

[Gamma Emerald]

enchant, can you actually answer the questions people have for you and play the game you signed up to play

I like style of posting, feels familiar.

I want kill Ass for voting this (mafia was baited).

mmm, this works as a "why"

[Gamma Emerald]

SA never voted datisi, why are you lying enchant?

[Gamma Emerald]

unless by "this" you meant icon

[Gamma Emerald]

enchant, can you actually answer the questions people have for you and play the game you signed up to play

I like style of posting, feels familiar.

I want kill Ass for voting this (mafia was baited).

mmm, this works as a "why"

Who you townread and why

you, datisi, icon, a50, vp, maybe bingle

[Gamma Emerald]

because I do

[Gamma Emerald]

but did you mean to say SA voted datisi or iconeum?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hypocrite.

some of them have reasons, others less so and are just vibes

[Gamma Emerald]

Enchant quoted a posting then said “SA voted this” so I thought enchant meant the person he quoted

[Gamma Emerald]

Add Cakez to my list of TRs from before

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is vp even being voted rn?

I’m still thinking about where I want to put mine
VOTE: Assassin for now

[Gamma Emerald]

what

[Gamma Emerald]

wut

[Gamma Emerald]

The dragon is iconeum if that’s what’s confusing

[Gamma Emerald]

He thinks they don’t have a way to communicate about the game outside the main thread, which means they aren’t scum

[Gamma Emerald]

How the fuck does my posting register as not keeping pace to you? Also, you should very much reread the last two day of MafiaSunny and tell me you still think that’s a real reason to SR me.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: VP Baltar
I see no reason to bow to you here.
And yes this means I retract the TR on VP

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the base assertion is just straight bullshit because this isn’t a fast game at all, Hidden Temple was faster than this and I was able to keep up fine, I even told people they were wrong to bitch about the posting rate that game because it wasn’t even the worst I’d experienced (that probably goes to Xenoblade 2 for what I can remember)

[Gamma Emerald]

How do you get that from “can’t keep with the pace”?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like contextually that post is clearly not a “look at activity overview, bottom half is scummy” post or eepless would have definitely made the cut. It’s weird that you’re on the list over pengy at the very least, but saying he’s complaining the game is too fast is a weird ass take, especially to 180 a read for.

Him saying I’m struggling to keep up is also a weird ass take!

[Gamma Emerald]

Would it be wrong to townblock Datisi/Icon/VP already?

do you have any particular reasoning behind these 3 names?

those ones just made an impression on me early

Bingle is town.

could you elaborate on this claim

Found his explanation of optimal town play related to the roles to be authentic in trying to simply explain what he saw as the best moves for town.

which is like the easiest thing for scum to use and gain town credit
that's an easy read you make there VP

Also scum!bingle likes to focus on mech vs. faking solving so townreading bingle for anything to do with mech is bad play

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw, I'm dead serious about Gamma here. Not gonna say why in details, but he knows as well as I that this is a scumtell of his.

No I don’t and you had a pretty large period where you claimed you couldn’t read me so go ahead and try to provide meta proof that this is somehow scum-indicative for me

[Gamma Emerald]

Also is anyone else finding bingle to be kinda weird?

~ skitter

How

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw, I'm dead serious about Gamma here. Not gonna say why in details, but he knows as well as I that this is a scumtell of his.

I'm not opposed to this. You can't say in detail, but can you state something in general why you'd prefer Gamma over dunn?

Erm.. how to put it? "Gamma scumclaimed to me" might be the way to phrase it without giving out much. Like.. say you told me that Scum!you doesn't vote in RVs, while Town!you does. Then you come into a game and post several time on page 1 but you don't place a RVS vote. That's you practiaclly scumclaiming to me. Nobody else would notice (probably), but it was YOU who told ME that when you do this you're scum.

Yeah I don’t remember anything of this sort relating to what I just did so you can pack your ill-formed read up your ass

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh you’re guilty of so much worse in that regard though. But that’s not my conversation to have imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway, I’ll be taking that explanation now

[Gamma Emerald]

Um I think this is pretty important and also in that case Bingle’s objection actually seems pretty relevant? And I seriously forget where I said that but how one you’re only just now using it when we’ve played several times pretty recently with no mention of it, or attempts to bait me into exhibiting that tell?

[Gamma Emerald]

Cakez is TOWN

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t remember being in a masonry w you ever lol

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh dear. It seems someone in here has truly buried themselves before even getting to know the hole they’d dug for themselves.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh dear. It seems someone in here has truly buried themselves before even getting to know the hole they’d dug for themselves.

?

Just being randomly ominous

[Gamma Emerald]

boop

[Gamma Emerald]

FUCK YEAH SNATCHED IT FROM UNDER THE PENGUIN'S BEAK!

[Gamma Emerald]

I could combat this wagon but idek what to even argue
so I'm just gonna do my own fucking thing until I die ig

[Gamma Emerald]

I still feel like aside from VP my earlier townblocking attempt were kinda solid
cakez and enchant are hard town for me at the very least

[Gamma Emerald]

idk
I feel like if I were to do what I did in Radio Buzz I could get some but idc to do that rn

[Gamma Emerald]

does nothing about my apathy level rn sink in for you?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't rlly have much that I feel good about other than what I literally just posted
what the fuck else do you want for final reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sa gamma wasnt close to dying when you made that post

~ skitter

SA literally put me to E-1, what are you on about

[Gamma Emerald]

I wasn't entirely aware what I was at but I thought it could even be hammer until I saw the VC

[Gamma Emerald]

top!

[Gamma Emerald]

PenguinPower -scummy

Why

[Gamma Emerald]

why are those two hardtown? i'm townleaning cakez myself, and enchant is still a ?, but hardtown?

Cakez because gut read, and until proven otherwise I’m gonna continue trusting my gut on him
Enchant I think has been reacting to things in kinda towny ways? This might be retroactive justification because it’s mostly on the page you asked this question that I notice it rn

[Gamma Emerald]

What are your thoughts about gamma and the defeatism?

i've just reread page 30 about 3 times and each time i came up with a blank.

for a newer player, i'd say the "not giving reads immediately and going into antispew is scum!indicative", but gamma doesn't strike me as a player that would just go into complete antispew there? especially as he wasn't really that close to yeet

overall, not sure i get much. i can see as either alignment being annoyed that people are following the vote -- here, i was gonna write "that he thinks is incorrect", but i don't actually notice that he's disputing a50's metaread... ok uhh

bingle, what's the "objection" of yours gamma is talking about in 649? i didn't get it originally and i was just gonna just skip over it, but now i'm interested in trying to figure this out

Hrrrrrm
Anyway, I feel like the issue with A50’s point against me is it’s very YMMV: how important what I was questioning VP on is varies from person to person. So my main rebuttal was to bring up “you think this is unimportant but to me this might be valuable in bringing down VP because IMO he’s talking up a crock of shit like it’s gold”.

[Gamma Emerald]

And to personalize the gimmick:

I want a banana

Potassium

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's less a lie and more such a nebulous accusation that it's essentially nothing, he couldn't even defend what he meant when pressed on it because it didn't really MEAn anything.

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral (3)- VP Baltar, Iconeum, Datisi

This wagon comp is

interesting

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda wanna vote somewhere that isn't VP but I also fucking hate him trying to act like I owe him anything
It's that age-old thing of "you respect me

as an authority

and I'll respect you

as a person

" which I do not support or abide in any form

[Gamma Emerald]

this interaction feels unproductive

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: iconeum
I'm gonna throw my old townblock out the window and make a new one with

blackjack and hookers

cakez, enchant, f&g, and penguin at the center

[Gamma Emerald]

why penguin?

i wanna townread gamma but every read feels more weird than the last

My gut feel from that interaction between f&g and Penguin is it’s town/town

[Gamma Emerald]

ico, i'd like some shotgun reads when you catch up, aight?

this i can do

Townie

A50 prob town, really reading like his previous game recently
SirC
Bingle

Varying degrees of nullishness

Datisi
Not_Maf
SA
Enchant

Scummy

Dunn
GE
VP
Fun and Games

Probably not all players in the game, i'd actually need to look up the playerlist

That’s a very weirdchamp scumpool
That’d be a team committed to some pretty weird distancing no matter how you slice it
Can you rationalize that, or at least tell me how much associatives play into this?

[Gamma Emerald]

it's not a team read

they're literally shotgun reads

Feels more like you pulled them out of your ass

[Gamma Emerald]

I've skimmed. I'll put up detailed responses in a bit.

Gamma having a one sided conversation with me while I was gone and taking pot shots doesn't look great.

Also, the pressure dissipating on Gamma and Dunn as soon as I was away looks suspicious. Shenanigans are afoot.

You’re more than welcome to actually engage with me rather than only slithering about when you want something from me

[Gamma Emerald]

Another pot shot that says exactly ZERO.

There’s not really much I can say other than it basically made me do a disk wipe on a good bit of my prior reads because I was like “my entire starting townblock is all on this one wagon, something about that

does not vibe right

for me”
So I took what felt tangible from my prior reads and torched the rest, and then added in f&g and Penguin as new TRs because of the aforementioned interaction

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, how do you feel about SA?

Pretty meh, their analysis on me isn’t exactly wrong but whoever said it wasn’t rlly AI for me, I think it was f&g, has a point
But their voting seems to be primarily just coasting on existing targets, I wanna see them actually go in hard for something they want

[Gamma Emerald]

No, I think your gamestate analysis was essentially irrelevant
Like, sure I wasn’t really engaged w the game (which ig is what you said), but that doesn’t make me scum. I’m v much a do things my own way guy so expecting me to engage at the same rate and same manner is not wise
And I also again just rlly dislike how when I acted up you tried to bully me into voting your wagon of choice

[Gamma Emerald]

Then you need to monitor your tone better because you definitely put me off of voting Dunnstral w that

[Gamma Emerald]

nah you're way cooler than him, you at least don't have the [thing ABR got banned for, if you know, you know] from what I've seen

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like there's too much chips on shoulders for that to be TvT

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway, I feel like the issue with A50’s point against me is it’s very YMMV: how important what I was questioning VP on is varies from person to person. So my main rebuttal was to bring up “you think this is unimportant but to me this might be valuable in bringing down VP because IMO he’s talking up a crock of shit like it’s gold”.

No, I think your gamestate analysis was essentially irrelevant
Like, sure I wasn’t really engaged w the game (which ig is what you said), but that doesn’t make me scum. I’m v much a do things my own way guy so expecting me to engage at the same rate and same manner is not wise
And I also again just rlly dislike how when I acted up you tried to bully me into voting your wagon of choice

Walk me through what changed here.

Trying to be more rational?

[Gamma Emerald]

Townie

A50
VP
Enchant
SirC

Varying degrees of nullishness

Datisi
Fun and Games
Not_Maf
PP
Ico

Scummy

SA
Dunn
GE

Format shamelessly stoled from a dargon, ordered within tiers.

Why are A50 and VP town for you
I am intrigued by those reads because you’re other 2 TRs are ones I’ve had for a while, so maybe we can sync a bit if we talk

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dats:

Can someone explain why not relying on preflip associatives is scummy, cause idgi.

Went back and checked, and it was actually Gamma, VP and kind of Dunn. (Dunn only quoted the post about the reads not containing associatives and then said Ico shouldn't be voting him, but I think that's saying scumreading people who are mutually scumreading each other is scummy.)

So I guess I want Gamma/VP/Dunn to tell me why not relying on preflip associatives is scummy.

It’s not, I just felt like Icon’s SRs seemed political on some level

[Gamma Emerald]

why are you so confident on me?

I don’t really sense manipulation from you

[Gamma Emerald]

why are you so confident on me?

I don’t really sense manipulation from you

i mean is he usually manipulative as scum? that's not really something i'd associate with his scumgame ...

i'm feeling worse and worse about gamma tbh

~ skitter

there's a certain thing I can pick up in the way he posts as scum
I don't feel like I'm seeing it anywhere this game
ik it's rlly vague but I can't recall being wrong abt it yet (this way of reading him started after C9++ to be clear)

[Gamma Emerald]

what would u suggest for the future?

[Gamma Emerald]

why do you quote posts like that

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: iconeum
I'm gonna throw my old townblock out the window and make a new one with

blackjack and hookers

cakez, enchant, f&g, and penguin at the center

what's up

Lmao why does my slot act like a genie and only appears when summoned

What did we used to call this? Wasn't it like the Amished tell or something? Is that still a thing?

It never was.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm saying it's not really a reliable tell, some people just are upset they rep into a scummy town slot and can't undo the damage

[Gamma Emerald]

meta alliance argument

what

[Gamma Emerald]

what is even going on

[Gamma Emerald]

Haven't read last few pages reading is not happening rn lool

I skimmed the last few because my brain is goddamn porridge

[Gamma Emerald]

lol VP case so fitting on me i doubted my role PM.

What? He didn’t even case you

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma's posts dont really have substance to them ...

~ skitter

If I were doing this as scum it would have to be a legit strategy from me, I pretty much always have a “plan” as scum
So like, what do you think my plan is?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald
Almost50

PenguinPower

Not_Mafia

SirCakez

Dunnstral
Sleepless Assassin

Fun and Games (skitter30 & PookyTheMagicalBear)

Bingle

VP Baltar

Datisi
DArby Iconeum

Enchant

this is where my reads are sitting rn (I don't rlly have scumread, just people I don't TR)

[Gamma Emerald]

how the fuck am i the same rank as n_m, dunn, ico slot, and sleepless?

lack of anything that feels distinctly towny from you post read purge
also, I'd probably most like to lim Dunn, N_M, or potentially SA
Datisi and DArby at least seem active enough to warrant a pass for today

[Gamma Emerald]

Active isn’t the right word
Should have said “engaged”

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, that's fine. If you want to get super fancy you can make the link highlight the text by doing:

Code: Select all

[post=postnumber]These are the words coming out of my mouth.[/post]

Ends up looking like

There's no reason we can't help each other out while debating who to sacrifice to the volcano gods for a bountiful harvest.

The code is a bit more intricate than that

[Gamma Emerald]

And? I just posted a sorta PoE, so I’m at least sorting.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald
Almost50

PenguinPower

Not_Mafia

SirCakez

Dunnstral
Sleepless Assassin

Fun and Games (skitter30 & PookyTheMagicalBear)

Bingle

VP Baltar

Datisi
DArby Iconeum

Enchant

this is where my reads are sitting rn (I don't rlly have scumread, just people I don't TR)

- i think u should have scumreads at this point
- what do the varying shades of green even mean
- why are you townreading me/us
-out of all of the non-green names, ehy are you voting ico
- how are you reading sa?

regardless of which head this is, you saw similar play in radio buzz so this reaction of thinking this is out there for me to do is kinda bad?
bright green is hard TRs, darker green is solid TRs, green-yellow is meh TR
I felt like your interaction with penguin earlier felt like you were both genuinely trying to communicate but speaking past each other
that should actually be fixed lol VOTE: Dunnstral
SA feels slightly opportunistic but also kinda genuine, so like, around null

[Gamma Emerald]

Active isn’t the right word
Should have said “engaged”

And given that you'rr currently voting ico why does darby being engaged merit a pass for the slot?

~ skitter

basically similar logic to why I chose enchant over S_S in radio buzz: DArby could actually maybe town it up, I already think he's been decent so far

[Gamma Emerald]

that would be a definite comedy option

[Gamma Emerald]

>:/
pooky you should know that's a red flag

[Gamma Emerald]

lulw
I actually had a beer myself last night

[Gamma Emerald]

can someone explain to me why enchant is town? but like, in simple terms that aren't "tstbs".

idrt that's anyone's logic for enchant!town
why is enchant scum for you?

[Gamma Emerald]

How is the pingu only lean town for you Pooky lol

Also I have a kinda goofy reason for why I think skitter is town here

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I’ll be more proactive once I can work from a flip

[Gamma Emerald]

this one just ended:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88043


also examples:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87498
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87397
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=87412

Feels a bit weird to say I was more proactive in Gensokyo when I very much was faffing about D1. I would honestly say that game’s was a similar vibe for me as this game so far, specifically how I’m approaching my read formation. Obviously in that game I cared a lot more about not getting elimmed before being able to use my power.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm also curious if he was wagoned on Day 1 in any of them

I think a wagon formed on me in Gensokyo and I had a pretty serious push on me in Radio Buzz but no wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I have a kinda goofy reason for why I think skitter is town here

Go on

~ skitter

So it’s the fact that my base read of you isn’t a strong TR, I feel like I’d be more inclined to strongly TR scum!you vs. town you. The main basis is that Mountain Dew game.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d support a DArby lim but I also feel like Dunn has been flying UtR for a bit

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: dunnstral
Idr where my vote was before this

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda forgor

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you feel you were more proactive there Day 1? Did you respond similarly to that wagon compared to the one here? I kind of hoped skitter would respond when I asked but your point of view is worth asking about too.

In Gensokyo I definitely tried way harder to survive because my role was a basically-always-town role but I couldn't really utilize it until the next day (it was a day ability), if that's what you mean

[Gamma Emerald]

I already answered the first part responding to the post with the links

[Gamma Emerald]

awesome
I don't like people just going "I give up on questioning you" so us reaching a real resolution makes me happy

[Gamma Emerald]

also hi i am drinking does anyone wanna fight about something

You're wrong about hydra consistency.

wdym by this

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think you a scum hydra would fake dissonance in thread to appear more townie?

Only the good ones. Weaponized hydra dissonance is a powerful tool in the hands of a decent scum player.

yeah
also, this is just personal rambling but I feel like the people I most enjoy playing with as a hydra are also the folks I have an insane amount of hydra dissonance with. It's like a curse.

[Gamma Emerald]

also scum hydrae can have real dissonance in that both heads have different agendas they're trying to push. The key is that one key concept, whether there's an agenda at hand.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm religiously allergic to reading wall-posts

I made like two wall posts and that was just to catch up after I was gone about 36 hours.

Just admit you hate me.

p.edit -- actually going to bump this loudly on my sound system now.

from experience even your shorter posts take time to digest.

[Gamma Emerald]

no shit Sherlock, I've acknowledged others calling that out saying they're right and that just because I'm not actively solving doesn't make me scum

[Gamma Emerald]

why

[Gamma Emerald]

okay
ngl I was tempted to try to hammer and that’s my biggest reservation to doing that

[Gamma Emerald]

Datisi probably town lol

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah it’s because I had the same thought of “hm there’s an interesting correlation of the Dunn voters” I just had a different point of comparison I used

[Gamma Emerald]

It kinda feels like you’re coasting rn Datisi
That’s like the third time you’ve asked about a slot like that.

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm p sure that gamma is viable today

Me too!

[Gamma Emerald]

Fun & Games

, is there any actual meat to your SR on me besides “not being solvy”?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay it’s literally a couple posts down lol

[Gamma Emerald]

can i get a simple explanation of why gamma is scum that's more than "not solvey" because i am not in the mood to be rereading a full iso to be trying to figure that out

it's basically 'not solve-y' but a few points/nuances within that include:
- basically not scumhunting
- having little content and resorting to ate when he got wagoned
- his readslist/poe is very simplistic and i'm not sure he actually thought about it very much (you're on the same tier as his scumreads, voting darby/ico while saying he kinda liked him, and so on)

+ i think his slot is partner-y with ico's slo

~ skitter

-I think you might regret this line in a minute.
-how is that even scummy
-uhhh Datisi is kinda sus for me rn? And me not keeping track of where I’m voting is nowhere near a novel event, and also nowhere near a scumtell for me

[Gamma Emerald]

Well up until now my basis in this game has felt very weak so I didn’t feel like trying to press based on that was very honest.

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm not sure that meme of a game is the perfect example to be drawing these conclusions from

but i am personally more interested in how you were thinking that enchant is more likely to receive pressure as town, while they were being pressured by two people you put into your townblock

Think of how long it took to actually get the wagon on enchant to be a thing in HoS_S, that’s what I’m basing this on, him getting wagoned early is a towntell and despite it not going very far I saw seed for it starting to happen

I would've liked to see how much further it went

calling it this early makes it feel a lot less AI.

Something about the way this was said bothers me. Reads a bit like proper play scolding.

[Gamma Emerald]

What what do you think I hope to get out of “white knighting” enchant, skitter?

No idea, that's just the vibe i get

~ skitter

Also dislike this.

[Gamma Emerald]

Besides those posts your opinion on me isn’t rlly fleshed out early on >:/
I’m kinda suspicious of your slot’s approach to me, if it wasn’t clear already

[Gamma Emerald]

I find it a bit outlandish you think I’d see I was doing poorly as scum and decide to go “yeah I don’t feel a need to fix this”,

especially

given you think my partners are also slots that have pretty bad positioning in this game? The only time I’d really opt for complacency as scum currently is if I feel like doing nothing is not going to end up resulting in loss of ability to steer the game in my team’s favor down the line.

[Gamma Emerald]

- voting someone you're claiming you kinda townread belies a dissonance between how you're actually viewing the game and what you're doing in it, and makes me think your reads aren't really real (cuz if they were, i imagine you'd be cognizant of the fact that you changed reads on the person you're voting, and thus change your vote as well)

- we also dislike your baltar vote and how you were relying on your 'annoyance' of him to keep your vote there, thus allowing you to keep the same vote for 20 pages and not do anything and not have to interact with anybody else or push anything

You should go and review my earliest games on this site

and then

try to tell me you still think having a vote lingering in a spot where it doesn’t make to have it FMPOV is ever scum-indicative for me.
And it took 20 pages for it to feel like I’d gotten the message across with my vote, because that was the entire point of it. Baltar tried to bully me into voting Dunnstral and I challenged his assumption that I’d simply take the knee. A similar thing happened with me and Aaron in Gensokyo.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you expect us to townread you for not doing anything?

I expect you to realize your perspective on the game is a crock of shit. You seriously think none of the scum are trying to do anything to control the game’s outcome? It honestly feels like you’re scum going after the easiest targets with no concept of how fucking ridiculous it is to have that solve.

[Gamma Emerald]

No. But I expect your solve to not be transparently shitty.

[Gamma Emerald]

^ That is me actually answering the question.

[Gamma Emerald]

And it took 20 pages for it to feel like I’d gotten the message across with my vote, because that was the entire point of it.

what was the point of your vote?

Basically: a big fat middle finger to the unearned authority Baltar was trying to exert on me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t care. I think your scumpool is trash so if it’s not meant as a team guess then tell me what teams you see as possible.

[Gamma Emerald]

Basically: a big fat middle finger to the unearned authority Baltar was trying to exert on me.

sure but I don't see how that is advancing the win condition which is finding bad guys

Does everything I do have to have the express intent of wincon advancement? VP told me to vote Dunn if I wanted to live, I said “fuck that noise”.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t care. I think your scumpool is trash so if it’s not meant as a team guess then tell me what teams you see as possible.

kind of a ridiculous thing to ask for on day 1,

then again this entire rage-y diatribe of yours is ridiculous.

Try anyway. And I feel like I have a pretty good reason to be drilling you like this. I had a bit of a realization as to your approach to me that makes me think your play around me in this game is not in good faith.

[Gamma Emerald]

Which head is speaking rn because if this is Pooky you’re practically scumclaiming with that assertion. Is everything

you

do designed to help win the game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also: games are played for fun dingus. Winning is a part of that but someone also has to lose. You can have fun no matter the outcome. A win that isn’t fun doesn’t really feel as great as a loss that is, imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

Things have changed for my perception of you tho
Wanna take a guess as to why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Which head is speaking rn because if this is Pooky you’re practically scumclaiming with that assertion. Is everything

you

do designed to help win the game?

I mean I do trolly shit all the time but that's me.

you're you.

I think you take the game a lot more seriously than I do ! :3

el em ay oh
I take the game seriously sometimes but I also want to enjoy myself
Like,

hello

, do you think I wanted to gate my ability to communicate in Gensokyo with the rhyming gimmick because I thought it helped to win the game? No! I just had the thought during the thread re-lock of “I rhymed in my RVS vote, why not do it for a while and make it a personal challenge to communicate with that barrier?”. Technically there was a game element to it in that it was somewhat engineered to lower threat level early on but I pretty much only had the for-fun element worked out when I first chose to engage in the action.

[Gamma Emerald]

Things have changed for my perception of you tho
Wanna take a guess as to why?

I'm sure you will enlighten me at some point

Think about what games we’ve played together and why I’d be so critical of your approach to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also: games are played for fun dingus. Winning is a part of that but someone also has to lose. You can have fun no matter the outcome. A win that isn’t fun doesn’t really feel as great as a loss that is, imo.

I'm unsure how sticking your vote on baltar and not moving it or pushing him or anything is "fun" for you.

It seems somewhat pointless

I kinda felt a sense of joy in sticking my rebellion in VP’s face

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m willing vote Dunn now so no, VP telling me to vote there isn’t a total deal-breaker for that.
Also, I don’t feel like I’ve seen enough of VP to truly gauge his scumhunting skill but I know in past games he’s not been the best
Mafiasunny: I tried to point out how scum!Noraa was deliberately spamming tons of “content” to fuck with the signal to noise ratio in MeLo and he didn’t listen
Hidden Temple: idr what VP’s reads were like but I definitely remember my own reads being pretty fucking solid because I had 3/6 pairs sorted as town/town very early on and those were all correct. And Pooky was in that game so honestly I don’t fucking understand how he sees my approach here and thinks it’s so outlandish for me to prioritize townhunting when that’s done really fucking well for me in the past when it comes to developing accurate reads.

[Gamma Emerald]

Fun fact: Mtn Dew is the game sparking this interaction!

[Gamma Emerald]

Well up until now my basis in this game has felt very weak so I didn’t feel like trying to press based on that was very honest.

What do you mean your "basis in this game"?

How much I’ve bought into my reads here. Aside from select few TRs, my reads are not strong here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma burying the lead on his meta case also doesn't impress. "There's something about the Mountain Dew game that makes me think something about skitter and/or pooky that makes this back and forth useful, but I'm going to not actually say what it is with like 3 days in the phase" doesn't strike me as a likely town thought process.

This is a fair point Gamma. Why are you playing hide the ball here?

Because they are acting like me having a sudden reconsideration is something wild when it’s absolutely not. So I want them to think about WHY I would be so critical of Pooky’s approach to me (I’ll at least give that much info).

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think it’s really that secret that my views on a game can change wildly with the proper impetus. Pooky at least should be keenly aware of it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Fiiiiine I'll say what I mean. I read the Mtn Dew scum PT and saw that pooky wrote out an elim order that had me as the day 1 miselim. So obviously he considers me an easy target. And the way he's been trying to deflect pressure off of anyone that isn't me seems to suggest he's trying to do the same shit again. I may be a slow learner but I do learn.
VOTE: Fun and Games
I think it's pretty damn evident F&G are trying to miselim me here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Fiiiiine I'll say what I mean. I read the Mtn Dew scum PT and saw that pooky wrote out an elim order that had me as the day 1 miselim. So obviously he considers me an easy target. And the way he's been trying to deflect pressure off of anyone that isn't me seems to suggest he's trying to do the same shit again. I may be a slow learner but I do learn.
VOTE: Fun and Games
I think it's pretty damn evident F&G are trying to miselim me here.

- cant speak for pooky but i think you're being genuinely scummy here
- not sure why u think we're trying to misflip you vs genuninely scumreading you
- related: do you think we ought to be townreading you here?

~ skitter

-I think you're crazy to think I would play this sort of game as scum
-As I said, it's the fact you're deflecting attempts to wagon others and specifically steering it towards me
-At this point? Yes! Regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, me trying to push you like this should be obviously town.

[Gamma Emerald]

because my scum game is basically always deliberate, and I'm not being that way imo.
There's certain posts from y'all that ping me that way
because why wouldn't I just go along with one of the other wagons here? I had previously expressed you guys were town, do y'all seriously think scum!me flips on a TR, and then does so later after doing it the first time didn't turn out so well?

[Gamma Emerald]

I did what I did because I wasn't sure about how you'd treated me early and wanted to look into it, and once I'd done that research that's when the astonished act came out and I started playing coy because of that.

[Gamma Emerald]

aside from Mtn Dew? I'm assuming this is pooky speaking
I think you pushed me to some degree in Gensokyo maybe? I know out of the rest of the scumteam Kilga was pushing me and KA was whiteknighting me

[Gamma Emerald]

what the hell happened in mtn dew that derailed the initially elim order for y'all

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, how confident are you in this pooky tell? It reads quite thin.

Not as much as I was before. But I also do not like their way of reacting to my pressure of gaslighting me.

[Gamma Emerald]

If Pooky’s argument

Key word if.

I changed votes because I realized my reason for voting Dunn is stupid.

Why is it stupid?

Also, when and how will you know IF pooky's points are valid?

With the replacement, it would only be 1-2 days of pressure for the replacement to say anything. I don't realistically expect a rando to read all of these pages, come to a logical conclusion, engage with pushback, AND town coming to a consensus in that time. It sounds better on paper if we had more time for the replacement.

Gamma and you would be my main indicator. I'd imagine Gamma would push back, and F&G would push back to that. They will either bring up the relevant pieces of the meta to this game and agree on some form of facts (to which I could make a conclusion then) and/or you as an informed third party would correct any wrong statements. It's not fool proof but I don't like doing extra work when it can be avoided.

What you’re expecting to happen is already happening tho, where’s your take on that???

[Gamma Emerald]

Proving my point!

[Gamma Emerald]

You’re trying to discredit my accusation by calling me crazy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Really feels like you’re skating around taking a definite stance here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, you keep saying things look good or bad, that’s not really a clear opinion on how you’re taking things.

[Gamma Emerald]

I felt like ramping up the intensity after seeing Pooky slating me as the D1 miselim in another game
Atp tho I don’t feel as energized as I did when I initially saw that
I do think that I’d like the elim to be in F&G/DArby tho

[Gamma Emerald]

My issue is primarily with the treatment I’ve received, making good points doesn’t negate that. Call it personal if you want but I just think it’s a horrible vibe.

[Gamma Emerald]

I could likely find an example if I dug deep enough but idc to

[Gamma Emerald]

V/LA until the 29th

Have a chance to get my schoolwork back in order a bit, but there’s a lot I need to work on so I can’t spend a lot of time on mafia.

[Gamma Emerald]

>:/

[Gamma Emerald]

This is not a laughing matter.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I’m ngl I’m bored as shit with this game but also don’t wanna exacerbate the current revolving door issue and I’m already on the table so why not just accept death
This is probably why I find long D1s insufferable because I think the puzzle box approach to mafia is how I best function and that requires flips.
Cakez/enchant/VP/A50/Penguin slot are like, all town, with help from PRs this game should be ez money

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's yeet Gamma now so we can keep D1 under 100 pages.

That all you have to say?

[Gamma Emerald]

I just read the scum PT from mini 2246 and I’m pretty happy datisi ID’d I was his traitor pretty effectively

Does scum Gamma talk about reading a past scum pt?

Why wouldn’t I KEKW

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: D'Arby

Gamma sounds like he has accepted his fate as today's lim despite the fact we still have time and there is a counterwagon. I am still not fully convinced he is Town, but it could be that D'Arby is also Scum with a stronger role which explains why Gamma prefers his own lim over D'Arby's. Either that or Gamma is Town and believed his "issue" was worth pushing.

Anyway, this makes the wagons even @4 votes each, and I guess this gives us even more info once both slots have flipped.

You all have 48 hours to decide which of the two goes through.

P.S. I may change my mind later, as I believe I need to ISO both Iconeum and D'Arby at this point, but I'm not in the right mindset to concentrate enough at interactions and motivations behind every post, so will do it later today (I hope)

Read the setup again bestie

[Gamma Emerald]

Yall, I don't think A50 should be the center of your SRs at the moment, I truly believe darby/gamma/VP/dun is a 3/4

Can you pls attempt more complex thought than you currently are
I think on base value you’re at best 2/4 there
I know I’m town and think VP is town

[Gamma Emerald]

Cop should check me, I know my reads are right. so clear andante= I yell at yall to vote in my 3/4

Can we kill this?

Maybe
I’m seriously questioning my TR on PP because this just doesn’t feel like a realistic way to come into a game

[Gamma Emerald]

Andante I want you to do a serious deep dive of why you’re seeing the associations you are

[Gamma Emerald]

- i like andante so far

I don’t
Also why is Toog “meh”? Do you just not want to townread him, because you know he’s frequently LHF early?

[Gamma Emerald]

I have an exam tonight

how did this go i hope it went well

I think well! That or I consistently did one thing incorrect. We'll see lol

I'll try to get actually activated tonight once I'm just vibing

That’s always scary when you have a lot of problems covering the same basic topic and you basically have to either split the difference or go all-in because there’s no in-between

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay Datisi is town at least for rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Datisi would you like to take the seat in the townblock formerly reserved for PP?

[Gamma Emerald]

Who thinks I’m town atp?

[Gamma Emerald]

I AM IN SEVERE PHYSICAL PAIN RN

[Gamma Emerald]

Who thinks I’m town atp?

This is a legit question I’d like everyone to weigh in on

[Gamma Emerald]

Who thinks I’m town atp?

This is a legit question I’d like everyone to weigh in on

TIL I’m not part of everyone.

eh if your stance is easily remembered you can get a pass
iirc you have me as scum so you're good

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: DArby
I was trying to bait out a townread from someone who has had nebulous progression on me with this because I don't suspect the entire scumteam would push me and I'm kinda prone to good-cop bad-cop tactics, but I think his progression already shows signs of that sort of maneuvering based on the questioning F&G is doing

[Gamma Emerald]

enchant is the new not_mafia, and that is not a compliment

yeah, n_m is funny sometimes

>:/

[Gamma Emerald]

oh please

[Gamma Emerald]

DATISI WHAT THE FUCK