Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: datisi

I am not masons with datisi.

Cogito ergo scum.

[VP Baltar]

My vote is serious now. Datisi straight avoiding me

[VP Baltar]

My vote is serious now. Datisi straight avoiding me

so, would you say it's not a joke vote?

More of a changeling vote

[VP Baltar]

Andante, vote datisi

[VP Baltar]

baltar seems a little stiff but i don't know if that's actually scummy

bruh, you're stiff as a board over here not voting datisi.

No way town!tisi straight ignores me giving him attention. Scum!tisi doesn't want to acknowledge we are in fact not masons, so just put the blinders on.

[VP Baltar]

I did want to murder him during that Lake Game just because he had a PT with you and I didn't.

Unfair but true

we can start a side thing if you want Ari. I can't stand that datisi rolled scum and betrayed me like this.

[VP Baltar]

your words sound like you should be joking but your tone sounds like you are making these posts while held at gunpoint

I'm not joking tho?

[VP Baltar]

I think Fire is probably mafia

sorry fire!

I maybe agree with this.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: fire

I'll take the risk then... if this goes south... I'll be sad

He's at what, three votes?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: fire

e-3

[VP Baltar]

I'm not voting him, so thus the question doesn't apply to me, I'll pass the question to VP!

lol

we caught the whole scum team by page 6. good work team.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: andante

Probably should go here first though. Give the scum a fighting chance by limming their weakest player.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: andante

Probably should go here first though. Give the scum a fighting chance by limming their weakest player.

I'm the weakest player?

you're weaker than datisi, yes. Jury is still out on fire.

[VP Baltar]

dw i will be back shortly

ngl i briefly had a fun theory that you rolled scum together and you were like "baltar baltar get in the thread we have to do theatre" and he was like on a stressful work phone call or something but through gritted teeth made the effort to slam out some posts to meet the theatre quota, and that's why they felt stiff and un-relaxed

There is no call I wouldn't have hung up on for being maf with datisi....ALAS, he has betrayed me.

[VP Baltar]

it was half actual observation and half intended as tongue-in-cheek comment about forming an entire read off of a fraction of a game of meta.

I have no idea what that means lol, but we're gonna go with "I no longer am CERTAIN this is andante's scum game"
and to that,
wooooooo!!! we did it!!!!


pshhh you're not a coward!! I'm not even voting either of the 2 voting me right now, even though I think those are some bad votes... not voting != coward... and that's a fact!!

This is fake andante. She would have shit all over implosion trying to suck up to her.

[VP Baltar]

then i wanted to see how annoyed is he gonna get if i keep ignoring him.

Don't believe this in the slightest.

Also don't buy datisi handing out shit townreads for weak reasons in RVS.

Andante-Datisi-?????

[VP Baltar]

"how dare there be no reads thus far!!!"

who said this?

[VP Baltar]

"how dare there be no reads thus far!!!"

who said this?

I mean, that's why I'm assuming you and fire voted me. must be scum if my focus is fun

That's not why I voted you at all. I voted you because you were faking concern about a mini wagon on fire getting too serious. There was barely any real pressure there, and you backed off because you didn't want him yeeted. Naaaaaaah

[VP Baltar]

idk if andante is town or scum but i'm enjoying her play. it's so in-the-moment. i strive to live every day like that

maybe implo is mafia

what's your reason for thinking implosion maf?

people who try to make andante happy are usually mafia

+town points to ari for this line of thought probably.

[VP Baltar]

I'm mulling over Datisi's reasons for fire-town.

were you suss on datisi before this? are you suss now?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar

that's not an answer to my question dear. Use your words.

[VP Baltar]

this is p weak, thats an easy thing for ari to pick on as maf

I don't think Ari would necessarily say it in thread if scum. Ari could swoon Andante easily. No real reason to call attention to it, and she certainly isn't going to do it to get town points from me.

[VP Baltar]

Your question actually p-edited me, VP. And Datisi is one of two townreads right now along with Vulture. And Andante i'll continue that line of questioning if you want me to but tbh it is like, extremely boring to me no offense

What's your townread on Datisi based on again?

What made you want to fact check Datisi's townread if you're townreading him?

[VP Baltar]

this is p weak, thats an easy thing for ari to pick on as maf

I don't think Ari would necessarily say it in thread if scum. Ari could swoon Andante easily. No real reason to call attention to it, and she certainly isn't going to do it to get town points from me.

Question. How does one get "town points" from VP Baltar? I think I might need some of those

Getting a green PM.

Saying town things.

I'm easy to please.

[VP Baltar]

I don't think you've said much towny stuff unfortunately. You are being kind of awkward this game.

[VP Baltar]

What about your play so far do you think I should be townreading though?

[VP Baltar]

ok, you made me laugh.

[VP Baltar]

Penguin, hi, can I get your updated take on fire and implo?

[VP Baltar]

I don't wanna wagon implo. You suss there?

[VP Baltar]

I think he's town dear >_>

I don't think i have penguin meta. You see something notable or just gut?

[VP Baltar]

My vote is serious now. Datisi straight avoiding me

btw baltar is this a joke? reaction test? or like serious serious?

It was semi serious at the time. Dats was avoiding me (he admitted as much). My thought process has evolved on it, but we will see when he gets back Monday or whatever

[VP Baltar]

why do you think scum!him avoid you again?

Cause I posed an awkward opener (I'm not masons with datisi), and engaging with that conversation is potentially uncomfortable for scum, who I suspect would not want to openly talk about masons for fear of being called rolefishers.

[VP Baltar]

Idk, vulture could be town.

[VP Baltar]

why do you think scum!him avoid you again?

Cause I posed an awkward opener (I'm not masons with datisi), and engaging with that conversation is potentially uncomfortable for scum, who I suspect would not want to openly talk about masons for fear of being called rolefishers.

ah yes, towntisi, the creature widely known for loving to engage in awkward conversations, and potentially tip off scum on their masonry status.

Maybe I have a higher opinion of your ability to game the game as town.

What bugs me is you're arguing kind of two things here. 1) That engaging with me on that topic could have been awkward as town, and therefore you avoided it. And 2) you intentionally ignored me because you were reaction testing if that was would annoy me.

Is that an accurate representation of what you're saying?

okay, i don't think my reads have dramatically changed in the last few pages

main thing that annoys me is that baltar is pushing me for things i'm pretty sure he knows is false. which like, wouldn't be the first time i get pushed for nonsense. but my issue there is that there seems to be a lack of... an overarching thought process behind the push. it's just throwing a mudfling after mudfling.

i'd be interesting in hearing why @implo is voting there, though, since i'm p sure he's not aware of this sorta meta.

a few other things i'm keeping an eye out on, but i wanna let them develop naturally first.

aight, gotta run. will be checking in periodically today, depending on how busy the workday will be. try to not have too much fun without me.

I don't think there is any lack of thought process. I've explained my reasoning pretty thoroughly actually. What do you think is mudslinging exactly?

[VP Baltar]

i agree hut is being explicitly not townie right now,

Is there some hut meta I should know here? What's not town there other than just general not playing the game yet.

Same Q to andante.

[VP Baltar]

what I like to call "busy work"

and hut did that but worse? hut's stuff was like strictly not really game related lol, like why do you care if I TR or SR Vulture? they don't have lots of posts, so obviously my read there isn't mega strong, like, you want clarification on my VULTURE read? yet I can tr and sr datisi in the same paragraph... and no questions?

Assuming this is the bulk of your reasons. Have you played with hut before? Is their play here outside town range?

[VP Baltar]

i'm sorry, this is just bs. you're basically saying "i don't think datisi would try to annoy me" and "i don't think datisi would be doing the thing he consistently does in rvs" which like, on the former i'm pretty sure you know better, and on the later i am sure you know better

I don't feel like you try to annoy me in RVS. What example are you thinking of? I also don't think you could annoy me. Few people on this site can bc I lub all of u.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: vpb

Jealousy getting to you?

[VP Baltar]

what I like to call "busy work"

and hut did that but worse? hut's stuff was like strictly not really game related lol, like why do you care if I TR or SR Vulture? they don't have lots of posts, so obviously my read there isn't mega strong, like, you want clarification on my VULTURE read? yet I can tr and sr datisi in the same paragraph... and no questions?

Assuming this is the bulk of your reasons. Have you played with hut before? Is their play here outside town range?

I have no idea who hut even is. why is this "assuming this is the bulk of your reasons" like, hut only has like 2 posts... do you want this like 15 page paper on exactly why hut MUST be maf? and even if I knew who hut was, how would that result in me being CONFIDENT they're maf after 2 posts?

VOTE: VP

Seems like a strong reaction to me asking if you had something I'm not seeing here.

I don't recall asking for a 15 page case, or really any case?

[VP Baltar]

i decided to *keep* ignoring you to see what happens.

Do you think I would like act irrationally about this or something?

Re: your town cases - it's not so much about me having an issue with you making town reads. It's more that your reasoning seems extremely flimsy (blah blah, early game etc).

[VP Baltar]

viewtopic.php?p=12364832#p12364832

this is the instance i was thinking of specifically

i know that you're aware of me having very early reads as town more recently too so like, this whole push feels staged lol

Also, looking at this example, I don't think I express any annoyance at what you're doing there. I suppose I could see it as a clear example of you doing something to provoke a reaction, but did it actually do much there?

[VP Baltar]

i am thinking of at least one game where i explicitly said i make up reads early on as town, i think there's been more recent examples too, and like, we have played enough that you should know that bluffing on my read strength is just something i do?

Although, sure. This is fair generally I suppose

[VP Baltar]

the thought process behind it feels forced into you having to attack me

I don't understand why you think I would be forced into attacking you as scum. I don't see what I gain.

[VP Baltar]

i agree hut is being explicitly not townie right now,

Is there some hut meta I should know here? What's not town there other than just general not playing the game yet.

Same Q to andante.

have you looked at what hut actually did? do I have to spell it out? the "content" given is not something that helps with reads, it's like "I'm here... look at me!!! I'm doing stuff!!" but like, I didn't like the posts.. I'll say it again. Why does whether I TR or SR Vulture matter to hut? hut only commented on like 3 things. Datisi and Ari knowing each other, my read on vulture, and something else I don't remember. TOWN... reading the game would have actual stuff to comment on

Generally, I agree with you. However, some people just take time to get into a game, which is why I asked about meta. It's kind of a stupid point if this is how hut just plays as town. It's clear you didn't check, so I will just do it myself later I guess

[VP Baltar]

why does meta matter right now?? just wait for hut to post more...

This is more about understanding you than understanding hut

[VP Baltar]

No, I'm saying I asked if you had hut meta backing your attack there so I could understand YOUR thought process.

[VP Baltar]

what is your current actual read of me, baltar?

Maybe town because this is reaching a point of arguing for arguing sake and there is a certain attachment to the stubbornness im unsure youd do as scum here. I still think you're saying some things that are slightly silly, but maybe you were really just bullshitting a bunch of town reads.

I sort of agree with Gamma this is getting to be a boring conversation.

[VP Baltar]

why is andante scum and why am i wrong to townread her?

She's had some misreads of the game state and conversations I find concerning. You had the whole backing off Fire out of concern it was getting too serious too fast. You have her launching into pre-emptive defense mode when I asked if she had hut meta. It's obviously hard to separate signal from the noise with her, but I usually find her instincts good even if I disagree with how she approaches the game. Here, I'm not finding a lot of instinctual stuff from her I'm liking.

I think people are tone reading her as town, but from games I've played with people who say they have good meta from her, IDK if you can necessarily use tone to tell alignment.

[VP Baltar]

because I think it'd be funny.

best reason to yeet me, tbh

[VP Baltar]

he was like "i'm gonna fucken yeet you when the game starts" in a chat

we should kill him for this alone

so jealous

[VP Baltar]

I don't quite even follow this "vp is saying outlandish shit about datisi, but also he's very reasonable". That doesn't even make sense internally.

[VP Baltar]

Tbh I'm like, a little bit surprised that VP hasn't attacked me back yet, as town or as scum. I think it surprises me a little more if he's town; I kind of expected to be lumped in as the third in his Andante/Datisi/??? solve with how I've acted toward those slots. The way he's been acting toward my slot feels maybe scum-indicative; he's engaging with me some but also kind of ignoring substantive engagement with me. I don't think it's super indicative of anything up to this point but I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm by no means like sold on VP scum or anything.

Why would I just attack you back?

While I do see you lining up with Datisi, I don't see you lining up with andante necessarily (despite that weird sort of exchange you two had), and she is my lead pick for scum here so far. What substantive things would you like to engage on? I didn't get a lot from your posts toward me.


pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

[VP Baltar]

Why are you like overly cautious of me? when you have almost no one else doing much? so shouldn't you just go "ok gonna assume andante town, see where this goes, and evaluate later if needbe" ?? like, if someone is doing a lot, I'll just assume they're town and work with them for finding scum.. instead you're all "CAN'T TRUST ANDANTE. SHE MAF!" like what? you, yourself aren't doing too much, instead just tunneling in on the people who talk a lot, have you ever considered trying to engage with anyone other than me or datisi this game?
I guess you kinda are with Ari now.. but like, ehhh

I can barely follow whatever you're trying to say here. How am I being cautious with you?

[VP Baltar]

Tbh I'm like, a little bit surprised that VP hasn't attacked me back yet, as town or as scum. I think it surprises me a little more if he's town; I kind of expected to be lumped in as the third in his Andante/Datisi/??? solve with how I've acted toward those slots. The way he's been acting toward my slot feels maybe scum-indicative; he's engaging with me some but also kind of ignoring substantive engagement with me. I don't think it's super indicative of anything up to this point but I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm by no means like sold on VP scum or anything.

Why would I just attack you back?

While I do see you lining up with Datisi, I don't see you lining up with andante necessarily (despite that weird sort of exchange you two had), and she is my lead pick for scum here so far. What substantive things would you like to engage on? I didn't get a lot from your posts toward me.


pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

LOL "I don't

think

implosion is scum with Andante"
Right.. so... we haven't ruled out implosion completely as my scum partner? cause scum partners start the game like we did? I'm honored you think my scum game is this amazing thing, but it's really not lol

that's your emphasis not mine.

As far as quality of your scum game, wasn't it just in KTaNE that a bunch of people were going on about how your tone is similar between town and scum and that's not alignment indicative for you. I think it might have been Bell who said the best way to read you is to look at who you are pushing and why.

[VP Baltar]

pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

Which game are you talking about?

Lake Melancholy I said you were mafia and almost voted you out at some point.

Bunnies you claimed a PR and got shot.

Large Normal I think I had to replace out fairly early.

eh, Lake Melancholy you came to the correct read and I wasn't even playing very engaged that game.

Guardians at the Gate or whatever you also read me correctly.

I don't recall what your actual read on me was in Bunnies, as I have the memory of a gold fish for mafia games.

Only semi recent game I can recall you having an absolute SHIT read of me was Legend of the Hidden Temple, and that was a long time ago.

[VP Baltar]

I think people are tone reading her as town, but from games I've played with people who say they have good meta from her, IDK if you can necessarily use tone to tell alignment.

@VP

the "cautious" thing
(that you actually said, but quotes be wild, and idk how to make it like the cool people do, and I don't wanna click back to OG post... tangent aside, you said it, not me)

That's not me being cautious with you. It's me saying I don't think your stream of consciousness posting is alignment indicative.

[VP Baltar]

I am his STRONGEST SR so far. he's said that a bunch, and it's off "meta" that "bell said"

This is not remotely what I said, and is a good indication you are scum. You're scrambling for misreps here, appealing to other players to back you, and generally flailing this game/backpedaling when you get under even minor scrutiny. You're not relaxed Andante who is posting yolobabble. You're reactive to pressure in a way that's not inline with the discussions being had with you.

[VP Baltar]

how about i VOTE: vulture

was not expecting this.

[VP Baltar]

Why would I just attack you back?

While I do see you lining up with Datisi, I don't see you lining up with andante necessarily (despite that weird sort of exchange you two had), and she is my lead pick for scum here so far. What substantive things would you like to engage on? I didn't get a lot from your posts toward me.

i kind of sketchily jumped on to your wagon with little explanation; it felt like it should seem sort of sketchy from your point of view.

Sure, I guess. I took it as you trying to pressure me, which is pretty basic play, rather than an opportunism to it.


while we are talking, what do you think of andante misreading several things this game and generally seeming out of sync with what is happening in the thread?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, smaller pool probably means it's not as good here. Oh well, nothing ventured/gained.

Speak for yourself, I gain lots without venturing anything.

Sounds boring

[VP Baltar]

More andante votes

[VP Baltar]

fewer andante votes

Why are you always wrong d1 tho?????

[VP Baltar]

imo vp is just upset that he's in the "These are some people in the game. That they are!! I wonder why they're the same tier though.." tier

I'm in good company. And ari isn't with datisi tier

[VP Baltar]

is andante really your strongest scumread?

It's where my vote is.

Why are you town reading her again?

[VP Baltar]

Like, you're voting Gamma, who is at least trying. Andante over here misrepping and incapable of having an accurate conversation, and you think that's town her?

[VP Baltar]

is andante really your strongest scumread?

It's where my vote is.

Why are you town reading her again?

362

and yes i don't really think her finding specific things in posts that she focuses on, resulting sometimes in not really accurate perceptions of them, is scummy for her

There is a subtle difference to it for me. It's not really surprising for andante to get things wrong. It's WHAT she is getting wrong and the way she is trying to push those things that comes across as having an agenda to me.

I could probably not be lazy and write this up as a case, but I also think this is pretty obvious with even a quick glance at her iso.

[VP Baltar]

yeah vp having that response to that tier list is honestly among the most wild things i've seen in mafia games.

Glad to be No.1!

I find the tiers list to be tryharding LAMIST more than actual scumhunting or providing insight into her thought process.

[VP Baltar]

I find Andante scummy just for the fact that he keeps changing his votes. If I counted correctly, you've already voted 8 times! But then again he seems playful so cannot really read into anything there.

As for Vulture, suggesting to out PR roles this early seems scummy too. But it's a strategy nonetheless. Not sure if that benefits Town/Scum more.

"andante is scummy for changing votes but maybe not"

"vulture is scummy for suggesting the strategy but maybe not"

>_>

VOTE: hutmeil

(also andante is a she)

Gotta agree with Datisi here, hutmeil. I'd like to see some takes other than "andante votes a lot" ... which is pretty normal for her.

On Datisi/Ari flirting, that's their shtick. I'd just ignore it since it won't tell you their alignment.

When you were catching up, what did you think about fire?

Also, what's your general mafia experience level since this is only your second game here?

[VP Baltar]

can we talk about the fact that in 488, vp baltar's avatar is the only one that is ever so slightly stretched out to the sides? like, why? every other avatar has normal proportions.

Psychological warfare here.

[VP Baltar]

Not Voting (4): hutmeil, Malakittens, Something_Smart, Vulture

Yikesville, USA.

[VP Baltar]

Implo, what are your thoughts on Penguin so far?

[VP Baltar]

your implication seems to be that it is supposed to LOOK like it's useful but actually isn't, when like, i think the fact that it isn't is p surface level already

No, not at all. The goal, fmpov, was to be funny. It's a social game type post.

Look at her now trying to spin it as useful because it generated discussion. The goal is to buy good will, not find scum.

I could just see that from a mile away as soon as she posted it.

[VP Baltar]

Not Voting (4): hutmeil, Malakittens, Something_Smart, Vulture

Yikesville, USA.

Reminder that S_S being there is normal

I'm aware. Doesn't mean I will stop thinking it's stupid!

[VP Baltar]

Why's it stupid?

Because it is not easy to read you. You play a fairly selfish game in that sense where it is on other players to drag thoughts and motivations out of you instead of you just being transparent and using the one concrete tool we have (our vote) to take positions.

[VP Baltar]

have you considered asking him about his reads

I will if I feel like it. But I think generally it's not good policy to support that type of play by accommodating it. Same way I don't spend a lot of time asking Not_Mafia questions unless I am looking for something specific. I usually just end up getting annoyed that I have to do it if I feel compelled. If others want to spend their time doing that with SS, feel free, but I don't have time to be daddy and ask how his day at school was.

[VP Baltar]

Especially since if I were to vote more liberally, it would be more of a reflection of random noise/sheeping than of how I actually feel.

You not voting at all would imply you don't feel a thing if you're following that process through.

I think you choose not to vote D1 because it is easier and I'm sure it helps obfuscate when you roll scum. I think it's lazy, but you can certainly play however you choose. Who am I to tell you different.

[VP Baltar]

anyway - what towngames of andante were you thinking about when you said this wasn't it, and why did you find my vulture vote odd?

I think as recently as Ktane you can look and see Andante arguing things (even if you think they are not good points) in much less bad faith, and at least being in tune with the game state. Here, she seems more uncomfortable and is poking me in particular on things that I didn't even say. That only happens after there was pressure existing as well. It's naked opportunism fmpov.

The tier list comes across as an act, as I've stated. I don't recall her trying to gain social favor in Ktane at all.

As far as your vulture vote, there are lots of people who are in that same space as vulture, so it felt a little name out of a hat to me, rather than something I could see your thought process working toward in game.

[VP Baltar]

You not voting at all would imply you don't feel a thing if you're following that process through.

It means there's nobody low enough in my readlist to be comfortable saying I want to end the day and kill them. (And I don't think "pressure voting" produces positive results most of the time.)

I think you choose not to vote D1 because it is easier and I'm sure it helps obfuscate when you roll scum. I think it's lazy, but you can certainly play however you choose. Who am I to tell you different.

It's easier? Surely it's less strain on my fingers to type out a vote than it is to type all this. (And I don't know if you're directly claiming I deliberately tank my towngame to help my scumgame, but I definitely don't; I play to win each game.)

Let me put it this way, if we all took your approach to the game, I doubt town would ever win. I think that undermines this idea the pressure voting does nothing.

This is a boring line of discussion though. I'm not trying to change you.

On more interesting topics, do you think andante has been making good faith arguments this game?

[VP Baltar]

Implo, what are your thoughts on Penguin so far?

I'm curious why you pick this specific question to ask me.

I don't think he's done much alignment-indicative yet, but I expect to be able to get a read on him over not too much time.

Feel like you have played with him more than me, which was why I asked. After a short appearance this game, which didn't help me read him much, he has just disappeared.

[VP Baltar]

As far as quality of your scum game, wasn't it just in KTaNE that a bunch of people were going on about how your tone is similar between town and scum and that's not alignment indicative for you. I think it might have been Bell who said the best way to read you is to look at who you are pushing and why.

@Datisi he just said he's going off something "someone said" about my scum game... like, it wasn't even Bell, so he's like reaching for a reason to SR me? idk what he's doing, but like, it doesn't feel like town!VP is trying to read my slot at all... I am his STRONGEST SR so far. he's said that a bunch, and it's off "meta" that "bell said" I'm pretty sure it would've been catboi in ktane who said what he's referring to, but still like, using someone else's meta? when all VP's knowledge of me/meta should be saying I'm town... idk it's dumb, but I'm his number one SR for dumb reasons

@ss - this is very clearly not anywhere close to what I was saying, and I don't think if you're town you misread that badly. I think andante was skimming what I was saying to look for a point of defense, which is a fundamental misreading of the game.

She also claimed I asking her to case hutmeil when I asked a fairly straightforward question of if she had played with him before. Again, this is a case of bad faith arguing a defense that wasn't at all what was being said in the thread.

Those are just two off the top of my head.

[VP Baltar]

Implo, what are your thoughts on Penguin so far?

I'm curious why you pick this specific question to ask me.

I don't think he's done much alignment-indicative yet, but I expect to be able to get a read on him over not too much time.

Feel like you have played with him more than me, which was why I asked. After a short appearance this game, which didn't help me read him much, he has just disappeared.

how do you expect implosion to have a penguin read off nothing though? like even if implosion was a penguin expert... there's just nothing to read there?

What is the point of saying this? Do you think it was scummy I asked implo for a penguin take?

[VP Baltar]

this is a case of bad faith arguing a defense that wasn't at all what was being said in the thread.

you sure it's not a case of misunderstanding?

Am I certain? No. Do I think it is fair to objectively read it as you being overly defensive? Yes.

[VP Baltar]

@ss - this is very clearly not anywhere close to what I was saying, and I don't think if you're town you misread that badly. I think andante was skimming what I was saying to look for a point of defense, which is a fundamental misreading of the game.

She also claimed I asking her to case hutmeil when I asked a fairly straightforward question of if she had played with him before. Again, this is a case of bad faith arguing a defense that wasn't at all what was being said in the thread.

Those are just two off the top of my head.

Why is her reading ability correlated with her alignment? Or you think scum-Andante is like "I'm going to completely make shit up about Baltar, nobody will notice and I'll get to slightly better support a push that nobody will care about anyway!"

To me, bad faith implies that it wasn't just a mistake; in my experience Andante doesn't always read carefully and jumps to conclusions

a lot

so these kinds of mistakes are entirely to be expected.

There is a certain refuge in audacity baked into Andante's play. I agree with you and Ari on that.

Those two examples strike me as the poor reading being the result of feeling defensive, and that's where I think the difference is that bugs me.

[VP Baltar]

@Ari if you want my present scum game, the normal fish in the sea game... I was very present there

also I think her trying to refuse the tr by claiming her scum game is good and citing some game from whenever is mildly +town too

This is maybe a fair point

[VP Baltar]

You forgot about us

[VP Baltar]

The AI has spoken, more Andante votes.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: vulture

Y?

[VP Baltar]

You could vote andante instead of you want a good wagon

[VP Baltar]

*if

[VP Baltar]

but...she says nice things about me

That's how you know she is tricksy

[VP Baltar]

I kind of just felt obligated to post...

Do you think this is a town or scum driven wagon on you?

[VP Baltar]

Decided to reread Andante's iso to pull some of the pattern I'm seeing in the play that's bugging me. I don't think this is 100% because it's very hard to read what is real aloofness from andante, and what's bad faith. I wouldn't even be on this so much if it didn't seem to keep happening throughout the game. Like I said, I think people give her a lot of refuge in absurdity range because of how she plays as either alignment, but when a pattern emerges it is concerning to me and I think an andante wagon is better than what I've seen so far this game.

Bad faith interactions:

andante town
penguin town
fire town
i am very good at this game

hmmm I too can call everyone town... but someone must be mafia

UNVOTE:

hmm ok now andante feels more normal

what is "normal" for andante? I would LOVE to hear this one lol like, cause I was just having fun in RVS (the phase I HATE) that made me maf?

"how dare there be no reads thus far!!!"

Nobody was scum reading her for this reason. This is a bad faith interpretation of people questioning her.

VOTE: hutmeil
they seem a little off, like their “focus” upon entering doesn’t seem to be to actually sort anyone, and just asked a few questions where like you could give any answer and they probably wouldn’t even follow up? idk, they just don’t feel like town to me, and they’re probably my strong “lead” for where to go to find maf, could just be I SR their stuff cause there’s not a lot, but I genuinely don’t like what we have so far from hut

Very minor effort, as I've shown, reveals that hut is fairly new to mafia. Andante's pressure here makes no effort to sort out experience level.

Like Gamma went "I have to catch up" quoted a handful of things, and that was it. no "concluding thoughts" or whatever

I thought gamma's catch up posts were fine. Nothing spectacular, but not scum range or anything. Seems like Andante is fishing for easy complaints here.

Tbh I'm like, a little bit surprised that VP hasn't attacked me back yet, as town or as scum. I think it surprises me a little more if he's town; I kind of expected to be lumped in as the third in his Andante/Datisi/??? solve with how I've acted toward those slots. The way he's been acting toward my slot feels maybe scum-indicative; he's engaging with me some but also kind of ignoring substantive engagement with me. I don't think it's super indicative of anything up to this point but I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm by no means like sold on VP scum or anything.

Why would I just attack you back?

While I do see you lining up with Datisi, I don't see you lining up with andante necessarily (despite that weird sort of exchange you two had), and she is my lead pick for scum here so far. What substantive things would you like to engage on? I didn't get a lot from your posts toward me.


pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

LOL "I don't

think

implosion is scum with Andante"
Right.. so... we haven't ruled out implosion completely as my scum partner? cause scum partners start the game like we did? I'm honored you think my scum game is this amazing thing, but it's really not lol

Adding emphasis that did not exist in what I was saying to mud sling me as tinfoiling or some such shit.

Misreading game state:

UNVOTE:
also, implosion is picking up votes too quickly, I'm scared of like limming whoever so fast

- yeah fire seems maffy

I'm scared of a quickhammer...

it takes 7 votes to elim

you're the 3rd vote

why are you scared of someone quickhammering at this point? you did the same with implosion on 3 votes

3 votes is a scary thing!!! that's a lot!!!

This whole exchange makes no sense. Since when is andante afraid of speed wagoning people when she's town?

ok I lied, I can't shut up till page 10, so uhh I've gotten used to everyone trying to pocket me or whatever, like, you can't pocket me I'm unpocketable, but what I'm finding so freaking odd right now, why does everyone suddenly SR implosion? like no one was talking about him till I was like "yeah people ignored me thinking he was maf, I still think he's maf" now all yall are like "yeah implosion scummy!!" like what? this is weird...

Very few people were actually scum reading implosion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

what? why are you saying this like your entrance was terrible or whatever?

it's in response to Datisi's comment that my play felt different

ok well the rest of that statement like still applies though, your play is different cause the player list is familiar.. but your entrance was basically talking to/about me... nonfamiliar person...

speaks for itself. Defensive replies to things that aren't directed at her.

what I like to call "busy work"

and hut did that but worse? hut's stuff was like strictly not really game related lol, like why do you care if I TR or SR Vulture? they don't have lots of posts, so obviously my read there isn't mega strong, like, you want clarification on my VULTURE read? yet I can tr and sr datisi in the same paragraph... and no questions?

Assuming this is the bulk of your reasons. Have you played with hut before? Is their play here outside town range?

I have no idea who hut even is. why is this "assuming this is the bulk of your reasons" like, hut only has like 2 posts... do you want this like 15 page paper on exactly why hut MUST be maf? and even if I knew who hut was, how would that result in me being CONFIDENT they're maf after 2 posts?

VOTE: VP

i agree hut is being explicitly not townie right now,

Is there some hut meta I should know here? What's not town there other than just general not playing the game yet.

Same Q to andante.

have you looked at what hut actually did? do I have to spell it out? the "content" given is not something that helps with reads, it's like "I'm here... look at me!!! I'm doing stuff!!" but like, I didn't like the posts.. I'll say it again. Why does whether I TR or SR Vulture matter to hut? hut only commented on like 3 things. Datisi and Ari knowing each other, my read on vulture, and something else I don't remember. TOWN... reading the game would have actual stuff to comment on

A pair of extremely defensive replies to pretty simple questions. I think this is one of the worst interactions from her in the game.

Tbh I'm like, a little bit surprised that VP hasn't attacked me back yet, as town or as scum. I think it surprises me a little more if he's town; I kind of expected to be lumped in as the third in his Andante/Datisi/??? solve with how I've acted toward those slots. The way he's been acting toward my slot feels maybe scum-indicative; he's engaging with me some but also kind of ignoring substantive engagement with me. I don't think it's super indicative of anything up to this point but I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm by no means like sold on VP scum or anything.

Why would I just attack you back?

While I do see you lining up with Datisi, I don't see you lining up with andante necessarily (despite that weird sort of exchange you two had), and she is my lead pick for scum here so far. What substantive things would you like to engage on? I didn't get a lot from your posts toward me.


pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

LOL "I don't

think

implosion is scum with Andante"
Right.. so... we haven't ruled out implosion completely as my scum partner? cause scum partners start the game like we did? I'm honored you think my scum game is this amazing thing, but it's really not lol

that's your emphasis not mine.

As far as quality of your scum game, wasn't it just in KTaNE that a bunch of people were going on about how your tone is similar between town and scum and that's not alignment indicative for you. I think it might have been Bell who said the best way to read you is to look at who you are pushing and why.

ok whatever, so if we're going with this, THE GAME IS STILL VERY MUCH IN RVS RIGHT NOW!!! we don't have actual content right now, my "amazing scum game" the EM people know about and refer to is literally from 2017-2018,

like, this is probably *mostly* representative of my scum game on MS:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375

and this is what I would say my *best* scum game on MS is
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88224

So like, can you stop referring to "meta" that someone else once said once upon a time? Use your game with me, and reach your own conclusions. if you want to keep pushing meta reasons that aren't even your meta, I'll just vote you out here no brakes and call it a day. It's just freaking annoying hearing all this "WELL... META!!" like, yes... I was conf maf, and town genuinely believed I was town and the invest was lying... but that was like 5 years ago... so yeah, Fish in the sea is the closest you're getting for my "awesome maf skills"

More defensiveness and going on about her meta when I wasn't ever talking about her meta ... at all. I was asking if she had experience playing with hut I wasn't aware of. This is such an overexaggerate response to something that doesn't seem town to me because town would not misinterpret what I was saying this badly. They would have just read the question and responded because it wasn't accusatory in the slightest. This reads like a guilty conscience response.

[VP Baltar]

[double post removed for readability - mod]

[VP Baltar]

of course the one time I wall this game it double posts. Sorry!

[VP Baltar]

Decided to reread Andante's iso

I really don't think that's the best use of your time... ummm the only reason someone WOULD read my ISO would be if you're trying to case/tunnel me. I hate to be the "bearer of bad news" but uhhh I'm town fam...

I mean, yes I'm casing you. That's because I'm not getting traction when I'm talking about this in real time, so I'm trying to get people to see what I'm seeing.

As far as tunneling, far from it. I certainly have my doubts I'm right. But, do you think it's unreasonable for me to be reading these examples I've provided in a negative light?

[VP Baltar]

I TR you Vulture!!

Also, was this genuine when you said it? If so, what changed for you?

[VP Baltar]

I think your main issue with me, is that you're assuming every single line I say is 100% serious.. like the "bad faith" in 34.. that was me joking... post number 34... am I not allowed to joke? like, am I supposed to respond to this "case" cause... it really seems boring to me... if you're taking every little thing I say, as something that's dead serious...

Even if I write that off as a joke (which I don't think it was, I think you were poking to see what happens), there are numerous other examples there that clearly not jokes.

[VP Baltar]

of course the one time I wall this game it double posts. Sorry!

did you spam-click/spam-tap submit?

I'm sure I clicked twice on accident

[VP Baltar]

Hey malakittens, you going to join us?

[VP Baltar]

it's not very good because the basis of it is that Town!Andante is sensible and Scum!Andante is not sensible and that's just not true in my experience.

That's not the basis in the slightest.

[VP Baltar]

Me, pointing out that is not the point I'm making.

I don't think this is 100% because it's very hard to read what is real aloofness from andante, and what's bad faith. I wouldn't even be on this so much if it didn't seem to keep happening throughout the game.

[VP Baltar]

There is a difference between not making sense, and making bad faith arguments/being overly defensive.

[VP Baltar]

There is a difference between not making sense, and making bad faith arguments/being overly defensive.

maybe I just don't make sense? and actually, where have I been overly defensive?

I'm not going to repeat what I just said. You can easily look at the case if you want to see where I think you're over defensive.

As far as not making sense, do the things you're saying not make sense to you? Because if no, then that isn't really a legitimate defense.

[VP Baltar]

I TR you Vulture!!

Also, was this genuine when you said it? If so, what changed for you?

@andante^

[VP Baltar]

it seems like everyone (other than baltar) has ignored my vote on hutmeil, and everyone period has ignored their return to the game? anyone else find this really odd?

Their return to the game just proved I was correct, so my silence was smug satisfaction.

[VP Baltar]

I TR you Vulture!!

Also, was this genuine when you said it? If so, what changed for you?

@andante^

uhh I had no read at the time, and vulture was talking about always being SRed at the time, so I said that. like, if you wanna take what I say out of the context it's said in.. obv you're gonna think they're shit posts

I was actually just asking so I understood what you were thinking and if it was a joke or not.

[VP Baltar]

correct about what? that they're new? that doesn't make them town

Didn't say it makes then town, but it means the push you and andante were on was kind snoozefest, yes?

[VP Baltar]

correct about what? that they're new? that doesn't make them town

Didn't say it makes then town, but it means the push you and andante were on was kind snoozefest, yes?

i don't recall you being cagey about pressuring people.

Doubling down when you're wrong is usually a bad approach.

I accept apologies in beer and votes on andante.

[VP Baltar]

aren't you just doubling down on me?

How am I doubling down on you? Where have I been proven incorrect?

You saying "I'm town", isn't really a counterpoint.

[VP Baltar]

I agree VPB would know not to do things that look bad - but in this case I believe if he doesn't attack Datisi right away it looks even more susp to Datisi.

This whole line of logic is pretty dumb, if I'm being real with you. I don't see how such a thought would lead to actual in game pressure on scum!me, so why should I even take it into account?

[VP Baltar]

also like VP hasn't even said I'm mafia

which is weird because he said I'm good at reading him supposedly

so if I'm pushing him and I'm good at reading him and he's town, why would he not think I'm scum and trying to push a misyeet?

Oh I've thought it, but let's see if I'm right about andante first. If so, better kill me tonight homie.

[VP Baltar]

I agree VPB would know not to do things that look bad - but in this case I believe if he doesn't attack Datisi right away it looks even more susp to Datisi.

This whole line of logic is pretty dumb, if I'm being real with you. I don't see how such a thought would lead to actual in game pressure on scum!me, so why should I even take it into account?

? do you think i wouldn't have been screaming about it if you entered the game ignoring or townreading me?

Not sure what you would have done, but I can assure you, I definitely wouldn't even have an out of game joke on my mind.

I am not a card-carrying member of the Overthink Mafia Group (OMG). I just play the game state as it is and try to have fun.

[VP Baltar]

Not sure what you would have done, but I can assure you, I definitely wouldn't even have an out of game joke on my mind.

*wouldn't ever

[VP Baltar]

ig it does happen as town sometimes too so idk

I've yeeted Gamma in a game over misreading him, so I'm pretty wary of these types of readings.

[VP Baltar]

Mala and GeorgeBailey are unreadable so far and hutmeil I kind of see why people are calling them town or scum but I don't think their posting so far is really indicative

Mala may be scum here unfortunately. I've given her two opportunities to interact with absolutely no return. Not a good sign.

[VP Baltar]

will continue to be p low effort for the next week or two.

Why?

[VP Baltar]

Actually eh I'm maybe willing to softly call S_S town too.

I found the way SS poked back at ari to be slightly townie.

[VP Baltar]

will continue to be p low effort for the next week or two.

Why?

non game related reasons

Ok, figured. Just good to say it explicitly. I also feel like you're a bit disengaged with this game, but figured it was weekend/RL happenings.

[VP Baltar]

MY FAVORITE PERSON HERE

Ouch.

[VP Baltar]

If anyone wants anything from me Now's The Time.

Apart from Gamma, do you have any notable scum reads?

[VP Baltar]

Tbf, you could be trying to pocket me. (It's working)


On another note, datisi, what's your read on ari right now?

[VP Baltar]

if you want me to fine comb through her iso and try to make a more detailed response, i can do that in ~9-12 business hours

No need. I think I get the idea from what you posted.

[VP Baltar]

Was hoping for a reaction or two to my gif list

I like that my gif is age appropriate for me.

[VP Baltar]

But if I'm being more specific, can I get words on why you feel the way you do about hutnmeil and SS?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, you still think vulture is scum?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: malakittens

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: malakittens

AYYYY THIS MEANS IM TOWN RIGHT?

And yet, you're not voting mala

[VP Baltar]

The wagon on me is totally valid and I totally get it.

I'm the only vote

[VP Baltar]

This is a semi-outed alt if not entirely.

Can you just entirely out it and spare us the homework, then?

well as soon as they said tunneled me in pyp.. literally only 1 person did that... but also them going "I'm this person" would basically be a scumclaim here, cause I have never seen town!them play like this, EVER..

Mafiascum is the only place where we’ll articulated sentences still get misinterpreted.

You can say “I scumread Pancake” and somebody will say “so you townread Waffle?”

No bitch, that’s a whole new sentence. WTF is you talking about?

you townread waffle? that's sus
VOTE: Gamma

Can't believe people are fighting me on this scummy mess

[VP Baltar]

Can't believe people are fighting me on this scummy mess

what

how is that scummy

Acting like this is still RVS (Gamma vote) and claiming vulture is outside meta without any actual evidence, which just reads like smearing shit.

[VP Baltar]

ok and what will that accomplish for her to progress scum wincon?

She doesn't have to actually scumhunt.

You and others give a pass for saying dumb shit.


Seems to be helping her wincon pretty clearly. Only goal as scum is survival. Why am I needing to explain this?

[VP Baltar]

Yooooo, mala delivers.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: andante

[VP Baltar]

Yooooo, mala delivers.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: andante

WOAH THERE. I THOUGHT WE AGREED I WAS TOWN

I never said this. You should rest in peace, scummo

[VP Baltar]

there have been so many votes that i don't know what the wagons are rn....

Andante is the only scum wagon. Get on this now and I'll forgive you tomorrow

[VP Baltar]

VP. ar you just skipping over the fact mala just 100% took something I said, out of context, and is basing her entire SR on me on that... I'm trying to engage, and she is ignoring...

She said she needed to get to bed or whatever.

[VP Baltar]

baltar, did you like any of the stuff she posted, or is the unvote purely a "she's playing the game" thing?

I think a demotivated mala scum doesn't do like 6 posts in a row or whatever. She would have made one or two posts and then flaked.

Not clearing by any means, but I don't necessarily want her dead today.

The content is

~fine~

, but it's more the effort I'm looking at.

[VP Baltar]

Yooooo, mala delivers.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: andante

I'd like to hear an elaboration of what elicited this as a reaction.

In Ktane, mala was scum with Pooky and me. In that game, she similarly fell behind and it was pure ANGUISH for her to do a catch up post. I felt bad for her because it was obvious in our scum PT that she did not want to. This led to a lot of stall tactics and short, fairly contentless posts as I recall.

Here, I don't see that same dread and stalling. I was getting concerned and applied pressure there to see how she would react. The fact she made several posts (almost bordering on enthusiastic) and theh had actual content in them (regardless of what you think of the content) gave me good feelings she is probably town here.

[VP Baltar]

GeorgeBailey - Any intentions on playing the game you signed up for?

Why is George null for you but mala is scummy for lurking?

[VP Baltar]

Aristeia - Ehhh Scum lean. So I just can't recall anything from Ari, I pulled up the ISO, and like, lots of talk about me, and lots of not game related datisi stuff, the occasional "X is maf" zero explanation why. and like your gif list thing just felt like how when maf sees a reads list they tend to go "oh I should do that!!" and then they post this list... like your gif list was a buch of "idk..." like, there's no point in either including/doing a list with over half as "???"

Wasn't expecting this read, but I don't hate it either.

[VP Baltar]

GeorgeBailey - Any intentions on playing the game you signed up for?

Why is George null for you but mala is scummy for lurking?

mala is scummy for her "read" on me

zzzzz

[VP Baltar]

his andante tunnel is a sort of complex way to make himself seem busy while knowing she's not gonna tip over today

She could tip over today pretty easily if y'all would stop free passing scummy play.

[VP Baltar]

the andante case doesn't seem like something scum!him is likely to put out at the time that he did.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

[VP Baltar]

malakittens - ugh okay here we go. opening three isos (this game, coalition - town, spring fling - scum). i was scum in both of those so it's not ideal for meta but it is what it is. surface level, posts in this game look much closer to the towngame, but we did call her out for not looking like in the towngame so that's to be expected.

i feel content wise... this is closer to her scumgame? like, in the coalition game, she had reads, but they had hints of... disconnected thought process behind them (e.g. scumreading std while also saying she really can't read him), while here everything feels much more artificially "clean". she's jumping around, her posts have more emotion behind them, and there's the "weird gut feeling" of there happening pocketing between me and ari (there was :3, but besides the point). like, it's not explained well and it looks like throwing shade, which makes her look surface-level scummy in that game. that sorta "disconnect" is not present in this game, all her reads seem to be explained in somewhat detail and there's no passion or paranoia i'm feeling. and skimming though her scumgame, i don't think there were any "disconnects" either, so.

I skimmed ahead when I was eating my lunch, and I think you asked me to review this mala case.

It reads as pretty reachy to me. Like, you admit this looks like her town game, and then come up with a fairly undefinable concept of "disconnect" to justify a scum read there. It doesn't wow me. I think I'm making a better case for town mala, frankly.

In fact, I find your scum reads generally kind of lazy. They are all the lowest contributing players and newbies. I don't love it, but I have reasons to think you're town here, so I'm kind of chalking it up to you not being super invested in this game yet.

[VP Baltar]

aristeia - eheheheh... i'm still leaning town because i am really not sure what scum!ari is doing in this game, because it feels like she's trying to keep the town together and stop them from pushing each other for ??? reason when

she could just as well keep her mouth shut and not post

Not sure I agree the bolded is a viable strategy in a game as quiet as this for scum!ari

[VP Baltar]

bc tunneling one person that flipped town is obviously Bad

lol fair point this is a hallmark of my town game.

*adds notes for future scum games.

[VP Baltar]

i feel like i defined "disconnect" well enough -- the "holes in thoughts" and "contradictions" that townies have because human brains aren't machines, but that scum generally try to avoid because they're sometimes seen as scummy

she has so few posts, I'm not sure how you are even coming to this as a solid conclusion, but anyhow...

I would like mala to post more because I'm not confident enough in that read to go to battle with you over it.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ari

It does strike me how few people seem to be strongly town reading Ari at this point. I also don't get the sense that she is really hunting anyone...

[VP Baltar]

also can we get some real fucking wagons going here. This game is annoying me with these three vote, then fall apart wagons.

This is a lurker problem.

I would also lim Penguin at this point with fairly few questions.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ari

It does strike me how few people seem to be strongly town reading Ari at this point. I also don't get the sense that she is really hunting anyone...

what does people townreading me have to do with my alignment?

You usually town it up fairly quickly in games. You are not doing that this game.

[VP Baltar]

Large Normal, where lots of people scumread me and only Dats was defending/townreading me because he was mafia.

Link

[VP Baltar]

Guardians, where literally everyone including you thought I was scum.

This was also the first time I played with you, and your whole thing with datisi takes a game to get used to

[VP Baltar]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987

Ugh, this fucking game.

I don't think I was scum reading you here. I thought you were pretty town is my recollection. It was Nero and MathBlade who were the scum MVPs for town.

[VP Baltar]

ok but my point that I'm making is that people not townreading me early is a normal occurrence for me.

Eh, I'll think about it. I just usually have a feeling about you by now and you're kind of a nothing burger to me.

[VP Baltar]

that's an indication of me doing nothing not an indication of me being mafia.

You do nothing as mafia

[VP Baltar]

My scum game is pretty much awful, I'm actually quite bad at faking an uninformed mindset.

[VP Baltar]

that's an indication of me doing nothing not an indication of me being mafia.

You do nothing as mafia

uh no I don't

You can definitely struggle if you're not finding am angle to work.

[VP Baltar]

faking conviction is trivially easy for me.

I don't agree, but us having a "yes, I am" "no, I'm not" seems less than useful.

Who do you want yeeted today?

[VP Baltar]

The hutmeil wagon gives me majorly bad vibes as being too easy.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, you're good with this?

[VP Baltar]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

These are essentially unreadable.

[VP Baltar]

The hutmeil wagon gives me majorly bad vibes as being too easy.

mmm? it's one more than fire and one less than where mala was...

I can see momentum lazily shifting that way. I'm just calling it out before it takes off as a wagon of resignation.

Your vote seems bad to me especially.

[VP Baltar]

I'm curious if Penguin has thoughts on the pace of the game; I remember him generally being more involved/pushy and he's indicated a desire to have bigger wagons but he's not really making a sustained effort to fulfill that end.

mmm? if you recall, i like wagons for a specific reason that require fairly frequent votecounts. we're about to hit 1000 with 3....so i guess too fast?

What's your specific reason for liking the hutmeil wagon?

[VP Baltar]

The hutmeil wagon gives me majorly bad vibes as being too easy.

mmm? it's one more than fire and one less than where mala was...

I can see momentum lazily shifting that way. I'm just calling it out before it takes off as a wagon of resignation.

Your vote seems bad to me especially.

seems weird to call something too easy before it actually happens....

if I think it's a bad wagon on a newbie, why is it weird?

Also, answer my question.

[VP Baltar]

pedited me. That's what I thought anyhow.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: penguin

[VP Baltar]

1. hutmeil
   

going from no read to a vote for no reason is the definition of a bad wagon.

[VP Baltar]

if I think it's a bad wagon on a newbie, why is it weird?

because that's not what you said. you said you thought it was too easy...then said you were premptively calling it too easy because you thought momentum was shifting that way.

now you say it's a bad wagon.

can't read your mind

What do you think is the substantive difference between "too easy" and "bad". You're arguing pointless semantics here.

[VP Baltar]

a no read from 300 posts ago and voting someone who i don't have a townread on is the definition of a bad wagon

so the best thing you can do with your vote on page 44 is put it on someone you are implying you have a null read on?

You listed several scum reads from 300 posts ago. Are those people town now to you?

[VP Baltar]

Are those people town now to you?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, you're good with this?

what is the *this*? hutmeil wagon?

i currently prefer voting mala because i have more concrete reasons to think she's scum than i do for hutmeil, but i don't mind that wagon at all either

to borrow from a good friend of mine, let there be competing wagons

The problem is one of the wagons needs to be worthwhile.

[VP Baltar]

Fwiw, I will join the mala wagon if that's what implo and datisi are doing, since they are probably my strongest townreads at this point. Mala isn't exactly following through on the burst of activity. I also think I'm getting kind of bored with the stagnation today a little bit.

[VP Baltar]

Fwiw, I will join the mala wagon if that's what implo and datisi are doing, since they are probably my strongest townreads at this point. Mala isn't exactly following through on the burst of activity. I also think I'm getting kind of bored with the stagnation today a little bit.

wait, thought you were worried about my pushes being lhf or shallow or what was it?

They are, but you are lazing your way through this game instead of being scum I think.

I said this already pretty sure

[VP Baltar]

The spiciness of that take is quite a bit less if STD hasn't read the whole game, tbf.

I also would rather see a fully up to date assessment

[VP Baltar]

Eventually I need to cut myself loose

What are you cutting loose from?

[VP Baltar]

Eventually I need to cut myself loose

What are you cutting loose from?

The unneeded stress to have to keep defending myself from bullshit Mets tells every game

Understandably annoying.

If you had a vig shot now, who would you kill and how confident would you be?

[VP Baltar]

who would you kill Baltar

Andante. Thought that was clear.

[VP Baltar]

As far as my confidence level in that shot, I'd say like 60%, which is decent for D1 in my view.

[VP Baltar]

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

Maybe he knows huts alignment, and not in a good way.

I also glazed over heavily during this discussion

[VP Baltar]

is anyone actually TRing hutmeil here?

Idk about TR. I remain concerned he is new to the game and trying to find his place among a bunch of people who have played together before. It's probably not where I'd want to yeet D1, because it feels like a coin flip to me still.

[VP Baltar]

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

Maybe he knows huts alignment, and not in a good way.

I also glazed over heavily during this discussion

do you think there's any chance scum!fire is doing this convoluted bus, or that scum!fire is doing ??? with pushing two townies idk

like i really doubt the two are paired because i don't think for starts bussing as early as he'd have had to here?

Probably unlikely, but projection does happen!

But it's not really a point worth making preflight. I'm just more concerned at how convoluted the discussion was. Could just be arguing for arguing sake though, and not something fire actually believes. Easy trap to fall into when you play

Argue Me

mafia

[VP Baltar]

Preflight=preflip

[VP Baltar]

kind of doubt fire is bussing because

(1) in his only completed scum game so far he bussed and it did not work out

and

(2) I think he'd come up with a better case if he was actually bussing

I don't agree with point one, because fire is smart and reads lots of games. I think the next time we see him as scum, a lot of people are going to be fooled.

2 is a much better point I agree with though.

[VP Baltar]

Glad the holiday minister of maple syrup has let you join us!

- VPB is unsurprisingly the towniest person to me right now.

What do you mean by unsurprising here? I'm actually shocked and a little weirded out. Usually I get wagoned every D1 for funsies.

[VP Baltar]

Are you going to eat Gamma?

[VP Baltar]

What do the SS and hutmeil gifs mean?

[VP Baltar]

Also, Dragons, I think some of the things I've seen you mention about my play are pretty whatever...but if you want to talk I'm semi-around today to answer questions.

[VP Baltar]

I guess it's weird that for a 50 page game I feel like not much has actually happen'd :>

eh, I feel this way most D1s. We just need to kill someone, especially if large numbers of people aren't going to make pushes.

[VP Baltar]

I am fine with these dueling wagons. I feel fine yeeting Penguin into the sun. His explanations for he voted hutmeil don't make sense.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I think your approach to getting some data out of these yeets is a good one.

[VP Baltar]

EBWOP:

I am fine with these dueling wagons. I feel fine yeeting Penguin into the sun. His explanations for

why

he voted hutmeil don't make sense.

Don't write mafia posts while also reading an article and responding to people on slack, kids.

[VP Baltar]

how tf is your read on me nd vpb a net negative

why are you townleaning(?) mala

are people allergic of explaining their reads this game

Gifs only sorry

[VP Baltar]

where is

your

gif list then???

VP BALTAR


DATISI


ARISTEIA


GEORGE BAILEY


GAMMA EMERALD


MALAKITTENS


HUTMEIL


FIREISREDSIR


SOMETHING SMART


IMPLOSION


PENGUIN POWER


SAVE THE DRAGONS


ANDANTE

[VP Baltar]

I got a gif!

It's a good one!

[VP Baltar]

VPB should be limmed just for this gif list alone

I watched yours like 25 times, and I couldn't stop laughing. I think I'll watch it some more.

[VP Baltar]

Penguin actually got townier

How so?

[VP Baltar]

i don't want the day to stall for like another week

good news for you, deadline is in 6 days. not 7. so by next week, we'll be in night!

This type of snark doesn't seem like town!andante

[VP Baltar]

im looking at past games for this now, cause i could be wrong, but i can't remember town andante ever saying that her posts are less than towny or even really being aware that they could be read as scummy

it seems like usually she always thinks everyone should be townreading her but here she's made a couple comments otherwise

Agree. This is part of her pre-emptive defense

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

No.

Get yourself together and be useful darling.

[VP Baltar]

penguin vanished after he got questioned about his dismissal of the mala wagon

i know it's probably not *the reason* why he vanished, but it's still kinda funny

Kill bird

[VP Baltar]

VPB is there a specific reason you are townreading fire atp?

I wouldn't say town read, more like town lean. I think he's been distracted by RL, and I've seen a few glimmers of classic fire.

I understand the votes there, but I'm uncertain enough I don't think thats the right D1 wagon.