Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Game Over!

[petapan]

I just picked my favorite number meanwhile we got sweats trying to game the system

VOTE: Dunnstral

I did not even consider the option of picking a Much Too Big number to guarantee uniqueness strat, kinda wish I had

choosing to take this as a towntell

[petapan]

VOTE: Taly

also town

[petapan]

ok, scrolled through the circlejerking, now current


imo at least 1 scum goes for a high number as a hedge to avoid doubling up, meaning at least 1 scum in ceph/unwnd/kingtroll/bell

unfortunately math dictates i must

VOTE: Ceph

[petapan]

peta i was thinking about that while we were draftign after seeing the numbers lke, if there's no one who chose 1, it's because of a scum strategy right? so the strategy must ave thought there would be low duplicates that implies someone who took a weird solo number.

well, from a scum pov no one picking 1 means they (incorrectly) guessed someone would pick 1. this can mean a few things, it might mean they went for other low numbers, they could even have all gone high

but i think in nearly every instance of this setup there's a scum who picks a high-ish number to avoid doubling up and get a better draft slot

[petapan]

peta i was thinking about that while we were draftign after seeing the numbers lke, if there's no one who chose 1, it's because of a scum strategy right? so the strategy must ave thought there would be low duplicates that implies someone who took a weird solo number.

well, from a scum pov no one picking 1 means they (incorrectly) guessed someone would pick 1. this can mean a few things, it might mean they went for other low numbers, they could even have all gone high

but i think in nearly every instance of this setup there's a scum who picks a high-ish number to avoid doubling up and get a better draft slot

yeah, i agree.

just based on number chosen, who do you think is most likely?

no super strong insight there, bell's is a silly number where if he had a team he might feel a little more responsibility to make a reasonable pick, ceph is one that's just low enough to be practical. KingTroll's is Interesting for someone new to the site who presumably is unaware of the setup - it feels like a bit a of a counterintuitive number to choose if he's going into this completely blind

[petapan]

ok, scrolled through the circlejerking, now current


imo at least 1 scum goes for a high number as a hedge to avoid doubling up, meaning at least 1 scum in ceph/unwnd/kingtroll/bell

unfortunately math dictates i must

VOTE: Ceph

Peta

, any list of 4 players is likely to contain scum. What's your thought on the people who have posted?

idk man it was pretty boring that's why i chased that sweet sweet 4% above random chance grouping

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

[petapan]

I have a townread on the person voting me and that's all

VOTE: unwnd

[petapan]

VOTE: notscience

[petapan]

VOTE: notscience

Do you think my read on notty sucks then

"sucks" is a strong word

[petapan]

I get this more than you think but yeah

i don't like the way he responded to being voted

[petapan]

Like does notty think as scum 'im being voted by 3-4 people' and start and bemoan it publicly? Feel he's more tacit when red

i think he'd be more likely to be self-conscious as scum

[petapan]

I think I feel asleep and now this is 10 pages

Good job team

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

eh i could keep it going longer but i was starting to feel bad


VOTE: Dunnstral

[petapan]

Ok I don't think it's doing anything anymore so: I had a moderate gut ping on notty (which still persists if I'm honest) and I decided it would be fun to go on the attack and get some reactions

For my next trick,
VOTE: Ydrasse

this was basically what i was doing as well with the added effect that i wanted to party like it was 2010 where someone would just get called scum and everyone would wagon them right away. thought additional pressure would provide a more useful response


(not caught up ftr, just chiming in)

[petapan]

There is a weird tension between Ydra and unwnd.

I have played two games with both Ydra and Unwnd in them before, and they also had a weird tension between them, But the tension here is ~different~

Like, in both of the other ones Ydra leaned REAL hard into it, and she was scum both times, and she isn't doing that here. I think that Ydra can have one (1) townie point.

you think she'd have gone back to the well a third time as scum? weird take.

I think I tr dunnstrals opening but I also sr it because dunnstral doing stuff d1 doesn't sound like them

imo dunn is always going to talk about mechanical things because that's the player he is but it felt like a smokescreen for substance in this case. kingtroll fos from him also doesn't really click with me, could be making something out of a pretty nothing explanation for a number pick

I have a problem... I have caught up, and I did not find a scum read :/

when that's the case you gotta go deeper and ask yourself who is likely to be playing a good scum game that would appear town on first pass

I would request LLD and/or Peta to solve the game for me please.

@Peta, why are you voting Dunn?

you say this like i'm good as town and not someone who everyone here has seen blow games repeatedly

and also like this isn't a table where i'm historically terrible at reading 75% of the people in the game

[petapan]

I have a problem... I have caught up, and I did not find a scum read :/

Trendy choices seem to be Notty and Taly.

I kinda think Notty is town? I liked that he appeared to stop and do some meta skims when he saw something that pinged him. It was well telegraphed too, like he voted in 82, made a comment about meta diving in 109, then largely disappeared from the thread for ~20 mins, before coming back with a new take on Taly in 122. That 20 min thread break would be an impressive touch if faked.

I am having a hard time sorting Taly, just because every post she makes seems to either misunderstand the post that is directed at her, or she is responding to posts directed at other people. I am not sure how to sort constant misunderstandings tbh.

I would request LLD and/or Peta to solve the game for me please.

@Peta, why are you voting Dunn?

Most egregious line in the game coming from a -you- perspective and just in general

I mean it fucking sucks a little bit when I have to meta meta meta everything because hey I happen to know everyone but

Man that line made my skin crawl. I feel like you're someone who values your thoughts way beyond asking two people even if it was tongue-in-cheek. I also don't think they've done anything worth being townread for? You're not typically willing to just hand over your thread responsibilities??

that's a pretty flippant comment dude i think you're making too much of it


i think however the hectoring of luke is coming from a town perspective

[petapan]

The fact that KingTroll calls them wolves indicates that they have more experience than their newbie status would suggest

this is, hm, maybe a town post actually. i don't -think- kingtroll is overplaying his naivete for towncred, though. just not knowing the setup. he's played several games on MU, i was in one of them although we didn't really interact in it. i'm withholding judgment for now though i'm tempted to simply say new player to the site gets the D1 pass unless he openly claims scum

[petapan]

Ok I don't think it's doing anything anymore so: I had a moderate gut ping on notty (which still persists if I'm honest) and I decided it would be fun to go on the attack and get some reactions

For my next trick,
VOTE: Ydrasse

i agree with ceph

VOTE: ydrasse

[petapan]

Do you really think that on like page 3, scum!notty would think that the best use of his time to get town read would be to do some meta work on the Taly slot?

Like, that does not seem like the natural thought process on how to spend time for scum.

Is in thread actively talking to players -> decides to stop posting for 20 mins to do some meta on a slot, and then not even use it to make a push -> unvote from the slot that.

It just does not seem like realisitic scum motivated plan.

Compared to the town process

Sees something that they find suspicious about a player -> go skim that player's opening games to see if it was scum indicative -> realize that it is a play style difference -> unvote.

Yeah, the town process seems more likely to me then the scum one.

i mean i would do that as scum but i'm not notscience lol

I'm chewing on whether I should start voting Grayice. But I don't wanna yet.

the answer is nah, you leave the inactive slots (GI and KT) alone and they show up or get replaced (tho i'd be sad to lose GI i don't think i ever actually played a game with him back in the day despite being around at the same time)

[petapan]

I am townreading taly

i agree with what cephrir is saying to a frightening degree

granted a townread on taly not exactly hard to fake but i guess hesitantly moving toward trust

[petapan]

LLD is null, and I did kinda like that Peta both established a list of people that he could default to scum reading, and then immediately proceeded to vote three people not on that list.

this is a pretty wack thing to townlean me for actually

like what i'm so inflexible as scum that i make an opening like that and have to stick to it?? bizarre

[petapan]

God am I supposed to read this game and shit? It’s 20 pages long and a bunch of furries in zebra outfits are harassing grown men and making me watch.

Someone give me a good vote and a halfway decent reason. Not you LLD.

vote ydrasse, her vibes are off

[petapan]

the following people have been towny enough that i don't want to kill them day 1:

marcistar
notscience
unwnd
taly
bell

these people have said towny things but my read on them is more hesitant:

cephrir
dunnstral
greyice

(i'm going with GI plainly not giving a fuck as being towny

that leaves the following people as people i am not townreading:

kingtroll
lld
std
lukewarm
ydrasse

kingtroll could be whatever, he has 2 posts, as said earlier we're not voting him Day 1 because that's a bad environment for a new player (to the site). lld isn't getting voted out Day 1, that leaves me with a pretty narrow pool of people i wanna vote

[petapan]

Whatcha seeing with bell peta

i think him taking a swing at you/taly early is more likely to be genuine and him getting ahead of himself thinking about worldbuilding etc early (and just, some him-specific behavior i'm not sure is worth getting into because it wouldn't be convincing even if i explained it)

Think peta's last readpost comes from a decent place that I mostly agree with

What don't you like about LLD peta?

i thought her opening to the game was pockety but that's not a read i'm strongly committed to. this isn't "bUt ShE cOuLd Be PlAyInG a GoOd ScUm GaMe" because i hate those kinds of reads, just haven't seen a moment from her i could mark in my head as towny

[petapan]

Hey I'm on the scum list
Is it because I didn't meme hard enough

no i'm just shit at reading you

[petapan]

What about it was pockety to you, or is your instinct the same as Unwnd's in that you both think I could theoretically get high and go shitposty loose style to try and engender townreads as a strategy so there's a fear of it there?

kind of yeah the sense that it was leaning into wee happy fun times vibes and saying stuff to get on people's good side and bring about positive feelings

also, peta, for the sake of my read on you, I have a question:

do you remember the newbie game we won together? This question has a follow up, but I need to know to what extent you remember that game first.

yep, i gave you hammer in f3 and you won it

[petapan]

I'm sure it thrills your ego but I think you're town right now peta

Funny enough I don't think I've ever experienced a snowing from you, maybe this could be the one

nah tbh i think i'm readable if you know how and don't get afraid about it

this playerlist would suck to roll scum in, i am chilling

[petapan]

also i've already won PYP twice as scum, i don't need to climb that mountain again

[petapan]

What about it was pockety to you, or is your instinct the same as Unwnd's in that you both think I could theoretically get high and go shitposty loose style to try and engender townreads as a strategy so there's a fear of it there?

kind of yeah the sense that it was leaning into wee happy fun times vibes and saying stuff to get on people's good side and bring about positive feelings

also, peta, for the sake of my read on you, I have a question:

do you remember the newbie game we won together? This question has a follow up, but I need to know to what extent you remember that game first.

yep, i gave you hammer in f3 and you won it

I guess I get it, since I'm not really known for it? I feel as if I've come back to normal level and have been putting in a lot of work since sobering up, so... it's bothering me a little to get heat for something that was just me enjoying myself and chilling? Not that this is major heat just... I'm hearing a lot of it.

--

Right, awesome. Okay, so... in that game we had a talk about how it was hard to get reads on each other because of the paranoia of shared knowledge and respect for the skill level of the other player, which inevitably led to you giving me the hammer while I was calling you scum and trusting me to find it, because it was the only move you had as a townie.

The question I have for you is,

Given you were able to find me as town in that game, and you're currently saying you've gotten 0 town pings from me, what was it specifically in that game that found me as town for you that you're NOT getting from me here?

that's a good question

specifically to that game, i think there was a great deal more context to the situation we were in - there were several days' worth of gameplay, there was a flipped scum, there was a nightkill to analyze. also it was a 50/50 between you and another player who was doing absolutely nothing.

but in particular in that game what got me to a townread of your slot was that you had replaced The Bulge, and i went to the effort of doing an extensive meta dive of him and came away with the conclusion that his play while he was in the game, even if a bit confusing, was solidly in his town mode of play


now, i don't have that advantage here, which means this is going to be trickier. i also don't have any of that other data, because it's roughly 24 hours into day 1. i could easily be seeing ghosts with my read on you, which is why i'm not pushing it at all. if you're town i will figure it out at some point.

[petapan]

Let me tell you my version of this question, if it was pointed at me. Because after you trusted me, I had to find you too, right?

What let me find you that game was how completely earnest you were being, in a way I'd never seen as town you before. You were emoting, you were fighting for it, it was like the mists parted and I could see it.

And it was SO strong and SO blinding that it shook me from a hand I was 90% set on. I was literally going to just hammer you, and you sold me out of it with genuine reactions and emotional play as town.

So it's a bit early, and one of my struggles with you right now is I feel like if you had wanted to, you could have gotten into it with me while I was high or even when I was being a little more silly and tried to connect in that emotional way to find each other.

So what stopped you from doing that, and ended up with us here discussing how you're mildly paranoid about it over having engaged with it directly?

right, so again, very different contexts - that was a final 3, game on the line, i was basically laying everything on the table because i wanted to convince you and win.

here, it's day 1, and i play this spot very differently than i would a f3, i'm less concerned with making myself findable, i'm still doing stuff but i'm also in observer mode a lot of the time because me directly interacting with things can interfere with my read on people, and often it's more useful to leave people to their own devices and see what they do

if i had wanted to i could have argued with you but i think coming at you with a half-assed gut ping in the early game isn't going to be productive - like, i couldn't have imagined it would lead to a meaningful conversation, if you're scum you're not going to get caught on that and if you're town we probably get bogged down in minutiae.

so i did what i do with a lot of early game reads and kept it in my back pocket while mentally marking you as Under Observation. sometimes that type of read turns out to be nothing and i quietly abandon it, other times i bring it up when it strikes me as being worth mentioning. what made me feel like actually mentioning i wasn't townreading you was the fact that in my estimation other people had started to look more towny and you were left somewhere in the remainder. of course it's still early and there are big error bars, but like i said i'm not pushing you

[petapan]

Like, put more simply for you Peta:

If you thought my early game was possibly basic pandering to get general town reads, why didn't you bother to engage directly to either find out if you were right or possibly find someone to work with?

i don't think i'd be able to get an accurate read on you via direct engagement, especially in the early game

anyone who's good enough at scum is going to have a pretty well trained response to pressure and they're not gonna get caught easily

[petapan]

oooooOOOOooooOOOOoooo

[petapan]

Like, put more simply for you Peta:

If you thought my early game was possibly basic pandering to get general town reads, why didn't you bother to engage directly to either find out if you were right or possibly find someone to work with?

i don't think i'd be able to get an accurate read on you via direct engagement, especially in the early game

anyone who's good enough at scum is going to have a pretty well trained response to pressure and they're not gonna get caught easily

Right, okay. Fair enough.

One last question:

Is it that you think an interaction like that would be pointless, or that you think it would be dangerous?

i.e: do you think it just never amounts to anything for you, or are you worried about being convinced of the wrong thing as a result?

hm, i'm less worried about being convinced of the wrong thing and more that if i come at you with a weak accusation it gives you an easy argument to defeat and boost your own standing

like, in some games where i'm scum someone might come up with the correct read, but they'll present an argument that is flawed in some way, so i can pick it apart logically and inevitably i win the argument in people's eyes

so i don't bother coming after good players with weak shit


on the flip side, if you're town it would be easy to misconstrue my intentions as being bad faith if i made an attack that seemed ridiculous

[petapan]

Bell did you change the way you play a little bit from the last time we hung out?

What's got you being more informal and less I dunno

'these are my thoughts get over it'

he definitely plays differently than he did a couple years ago

[petapan]

See: What I just did with Peta. Weird ass conversation using a metaphor of a 2 year old game as the call back point. Did it need to be done that way? Nope! Infact Peta complained about how the scenarios were different like, twice.

i wasn't complaining! i just think it's useful to examine contexts relative to the game and how that influences people's behavior and thinking

i do think it's given me some insight into what you're doing this game though

[petapan]

Okay, so Unwnd, can you tell me if you think Luke is the type who would specifically mimic an interaction to try and engender a townread?

i think it's not uncommon practice for people to repeat things they said as town when they're playing scum to fake a towntell, i'd have to check the original interaction to see how similar it is but if it's a copy i'd be more concerned, not less

[petapan]

Notty, you've alluded several times to suspicion on Bell, what stops you from wagoning there?

peta, why are the off-vibes from Ydrasse scum-motivated?

Gaia

because the feeling is not her being town and unmotivated but awkwardly trying to fit in, her vote on you justified as you "feeling weird" was weak

[petapan]

Notty, you've alluded several times to suspicion on Bell, what stops you from wagoning there?<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">peta, why are the off-vibes from Ydrasse scum-motivated?<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">Gaia

because the feeling is not her being town and unmotivated but awkwardly trying to fit in, her vote on you justified as you "feeling weird" was weak

Bell's

wasn't?

taly

nope

bell has pretty clearly made statements of actual substance and him taking a swing at you definitely had more to it based on his explanation. i also think his tone here is different in that he has a self-assuredness in his own alignment as town he doesn't replicate as scum

[petapan]

imo dunn is always going to talk about mechanical things because that's the player he is but it felt like a smokescreen for substance in this case. kingtroll fos from him also doesn't really click with me, could be making something out of a pretty nothing explanation for a number pick

Is there a reason why this is something that you feel about Dunn, but not saying that about me? I feel like I have said just as much about that from KingTroll as he has

i also came to dislike your kingtroll vote as a potential cop out! at the time i made that post your vote hadn't caught my attention as i was focused on other people

[petapan]

Third: Reads! I haven't been around much this game but I have a good few days ahead of me so I'm going to sort things out:

talk to me a little bit about why you have those scumreads?

[petapan]

it is hard for me currently to verbalize myelf well.

lld has the capacity to be scum, as i respect her play. however i have liked her overall contributions thus far. this is vague. i apologize.

marci's 351 felt wrong to me. in part i do not believe it to be a marcilike (read: coached) post and i dislike what feels like potential tmi on kingtroll. her tone is similar to town games previously but i believe that this could be a reflection of general attitude, and am not putting as much weight into it.

@whoever's around
is the bolded a possibility/am i off base?

i spent about an hour staring at the post and if i squint hard and turn my head i could see the kingtroll bit as an attempt to create fake nuance, and the bit saying she's not as towny as people seem to think is little strange because i don't know what purpose it actually serves

but i don't know that i actually find any of it that suspicious

[petapan]

I'm just feeling a little... Weird.

Like I was sort of not expecting people to think it is weird thar I'm having fun and cooperating even though i guess that is weird for me?

It's a bit of ennui maybe

imo don't worry about it

i think absent any expectations placed on the username i'd be townreading the approach so so i have decided to roll with that for day 1

[petapan]

Speaking of my *kill for being forgettable pile* KingTroll, STD, and GreyIce are all rounding out that space where I am struggling to remember much of anything that they have done this game outside of KingTrolls initial entrace, STD's meme posts, and GreyIce yelling for LLD to make him a sandwich.

this is real weak

greyice clearly didn't give two craps about the game, which for someone who is basically retired is a nulltell at worst

kingtroll to that point was behind in the game, so, like, of course he didn't do much. but i think since catching up he's been fine and tbh i buy the story about not reading/paying attention to the setup as a slightly disinvested townie, doesn't strike me as the type of player to fake something like that

beyond that it seems like defaulting to sort by post count rather than making actual inquiry into what people are doing

[petapan]

Anyways

VOTE: std

I feel like he has seen me floundering every time I have been in a discussion about you and me, and he just purposefully pulled me back into that conversation as soon as he saw me drifting away and getting into talking with Taly about the rest of the player list

I cannot think of the town reason to go "you know what I need, is luke to talk more about unwnd this game"

And it felt like he walked in with the goal of framing it that way, because me actually explaining why I think unwnd is town did not phase him and the push he was setting up

"You are acting like unwnd is town" "I am pretty sure that unwnd is town because X" "oh, well you are scum for thinking unwnd is town. Vote"

He did not even seem to care about my reason for thinking he was town, or stopping to gauge if I really feel this way

this isn't bad though

[petapan]

why do i still see kingtroll hate wtf

I don't like this post

i don't either

shades of her as scum in holiday dance party i think

I see STD has finally showed up

he has, but i'm not sure it actually makes him town

[petapan]

Oh no. I'm criticizing that when you made this list you forgot the central mechanic of the game. This is, after all, PYP.

Now I'm not going to expect a shoot-from-the-hip dgaf player to remember how the game works, but analytical players always do. Faking analysis though, well, there's a lot of interaction, and you can smell the Lukewarm wagon, but Dunnstral just isn't doing anything. So he has to slide down. And of course for a second you forgot it was PYP when you put it together.

I bet notscience sees it now. If you don't, check the #4 bear~

you're getting at that he has luke and dunn as scumreads but they picked the same number?

[petapan]

i don't really get what people liked about ydrasse's content posting, i thought it was pretty perfunctory and didn't really do anything to dispel suspicion i had on her

however i would be willing to compromise with her and

VOTE: marci

[petapan]

What the fuck is a number four bear bc I’m still confused what I’m missing exactly

4

[petapan]

peta

you think

marci/ydra

is SvS?

i don't worldbuild on day 1, or at least i try not to even though the thoughts inevitably creep into my head, because i don't think it's feasible or realistic to nail the exact team that way and you get a lot of false positives

but i don't think it's impossible and find them individually scummy


what i think about marci is this:

she has 16 posts and is one of the more divergent players in the playerlist who would struggle to post as scum

her vote on unwnd is an rvs vote and she hasn't really pushed it further or pursued any other scumreads

she is mostly popping in to make weak defenses of people who are under suspicion which comes across as either white knighting or trying to lay false associtives

[petapan]

i feel like in a recent pyp scum picked same numbers
i might be hallucinating

They could of course. Hoopla pulled that gambit in the first PYP I played in, and I called it out (to famously mixed results). But the thing is, they have to think "I'm the sort of player that can benefit more from the town cred if the other half dies than getting good PRs."

And man, there's some PRs I wouldn't want to dodge in here. Cop? Oof. Even ascetic is no bueno. And there's a universal backup if you happen to find the ascetic cop early. Jailkeeper, doctor, etc. Not the weakest roles I've ever seen.

But more to the point, Unwnd would interrogate that. Unless of course they're focused on the Lukewarm wagon, and bumped Dunnstral down at the last second because they needed a second scumread

i'm fairly sure in the ensuing decade+ of this setup being run scum have never doubled up, not once. letting town get first shot at the strong PRs is too risky. Was the same when I drafted as scum - we discussed it but chickened out.

now, that being said, let me interrogate your view here - you say unwnd is scum for not paying attention to the draft numbers when he was forming his reads list and putting together two players who can't be scum. what make you certain scum is unlikely to think about/care about such things, as opposed to town who is simply going by feels on day 1 and not thinking about guessing the exact team? maybe he wasn't even paying attention to the numbers. in my experience i feel like town is a lot more likely to be careless about those things and make reads in a free association way, where scum are going to be more concerned with making sure everything makes 'sense' from a draft logic pov

[petapan]

that is exactly what im doing peta

okay, so, why?

[petapan]

i grow increasingly more okay with not listening to people below me in the draft but you dont see me complaining

What’s going on marci, you started so good but have fallen off a cliff

i didnt get responses in the way i wanted so i decided to not even bother :shrug: its simple
cant force something out if people dont naturally wanna give it
just sorta wanted to wait back but now i dont even wanna do that

i also have seen a bunch of bs reasons to sus me, like my activity level or the singular wall post and it honestly just makes me want to thread dodge in response like afk?!?!?! ill show u true afk

so you're not getting the responses you wanted so your solution is to...simply lurk rather than do something different? why aren't you trying to find scum? is unwnd still the scummiest person to you?


(i, like, hate that you do this in response to pressure but it's at least

something

over

nothing

)

[petapan]

lurk until i find somwthing i care enough about yeah

and idk lol but i dont see anything i like better yet

is there a particular reason you're choosing to lurk over being more active?

[petapan]

white knighting would refer to scum defending a townie, though, so in your perception are they not teamed?

[petapan]

I think I’ve been pretty vocal about my opinions but it’s also difficult to give opinions when everyone is playing poker instead of mafia

i don't think that's been true for a while tbh

[petapan]

i'm fairly sure in the ensuing decade+ of this setup being run scum have never doubled up, not once. letting town get first shot at the strong PRs is too risky. Was the same when I drafted as scum - we discussed it but chickened out.

now, that being said, let me interrogate your view here - you say unwnd is scum for not paying attention to the draft numbers when he was forming his reads list and putting together two players who can't be scum. what make you certain scum is unlikely to think about/care about such things, as opposed to town who is simply going by feels on day 1 and not thinking about guessing the exact team? maybe he wasn't even paying attention to the numbers. in my experience i feel like town is a lot more likely to be careless about those things and make reads in a free association way, where scum are going to be more concerned with making sure everything makes 'sense' from a draft logic pov

I think town is looking to solve game. I think they're going to use what tools they have. Sure, some people don't give a shit. Does that strike you as Uwnwd? As scum you have to fake that. Not telling you much if I tell you scum know all the townies, right? You can't legitimately scumhunt, you have to fake it. All of that is about fitting in. And moving a few names around because it "looks wrong" or "I wouldn't be townreading that person" is common.

Do I see Uwnwd trying to solve the game? No. Do I see them trying to look like they're trying to solve the game? Yes.

Do I buy your logic that scum are better town than town? Nah bro. People have thought processes, and you can work through what they are. And Uwnwd hasn't talked to Dunnstral once, yet has them as their second scummiest person, when they should be looking to find a firm town read in those two (what they say they care about?)

This is a good vote. Come. Join in.

nah i'm good

i don't really find this a convincing gotcha

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: save the dragons


find marci's play frustrating but not sure it's actually scum indicative

[petapan]

I don’t really understand the push on him

probably because i don't actually have a case

and i'm not sure i could construct one

but it's something i feel, right now

[petapan]

im bussing

im disgusting

[petapan]

If you can figure it out lemme know thx

i'm chewing on it because i want to at least put the feelings into words but i am certainly not completely confident that i wanna grab the steering wheel and hardshove it thru, but then i'm not sure i'm gonna get that type of read day 1


what i am confident in is that unwnd is a bad wagon and lld and i are both going to drop the shield there

if i had to guess why it's grown larger than any wagon i would speculate that scum are taking advantage of the overall lack of cohesion elsewhere and a few misguided votes there to make that wagon larger and possibly seem inevitable

[petapan]

if i had to guess why it's grown larger than any wagon i would speculate that scum are taking advantage of the overall lack of cohesion elsewhere and a few misguided votes there to make that wagon larger and possibly seem inevitable

So you think that mafia are voting unwnd right now?

i'd say there's probably one on him, yeah (this isn't really earth-shaking given probabilities but i think the case as presented hasn't merited a wagon of that size)

[petapan]

She didn’t warn you did she

he's played on sites with significantly higher workrates than this one lol

[petapan]

kingtroll to that point was behind in the game, so, like, of course he didn't do much. but i think since catching up he's been fine and tbh i buy the story about not reading/paying attention to the setup as a slightly disinvested townie, doesn't strike me as the type of player to fake something like that

Peta, what part of Kingtroll's catch up did you actually like? I finally got to that part of the game, and I feel like all of his reads were pretty toothless and generally vague.

Maybe I misinterpreted your comment to me, but I kinda of got there ready to find the thing that made you think that they were town, and just did not really find anything to fill that expectation

literally none of the reads just the "oops i didn't pay attention to the setup" comment

content-wise i don't find him towny but i feel like there's significant possibility for a calibration error with a player who is unknown to most

[petapan]

i regret startign the heat on marci and not even giving proper dismissal to it but regardless i don't think she's scum anymore

[petapan]

okay wow so now im not allowed to talk about stuff!! lovely yall wont be hearing from me for awhile then

This is scummy as fuck and completely out of character for Marci the person.

Claim.

it's actually not remotely out of character based on the game i modded + a few others i spectated, and she was town in all of them

i wish she would

not

do this because it's unpleasant and makes the game needlessly difficult, and i don't really like rewarding playing this way but i don't think wagoning her is going to be an effective outcome in any way

[petapan]

i don't really care about the role because it's basically a given that a universal backup exists, it gets picked every game with reliability. if you think a pr claim is scummy day 1 of pyp is the best time to elim them

i just don't really think she's scum

[petapan]

Can you provide links so I can review them myself peta

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=23&t=90062&user_select%5B%5D=36853
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=53&t=89657&user_select%5B%5D=35197

[petapan]

I mean, I already strongly town read them now. So you didn’t have to point that out.

i wrote the post before catching your reply but there are people besides you who it's relevant to even if i'm quoting you

[petapan]

You know the AtE would have been a lot more believable if Dunn and I hadn’t just spelled it out or if peta hadn’t just given you a roadmap

Minus scum equity for you and peta together tho bc that would have happened behind the scenes first

We get it, you’ve already decided to claim roleblocked

you're tunneling

[petapan]

I hadn’t been, but frankly your meta firmed the read up for me

i'm telling you now you have a tendency to get locked into a particular view and become resistant to outside persectives and just...seeing the player you're pushing as a person and trying to understand them, i think because you really want to be right. it gets exploited by scum consistently.

i'm fairly confident that's what's happening here.

Can you provide links so I can review them myself peta

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=23&t=90062&user_select%5B%5D=36853
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=53&t=89657&user_select%5B%5D=35197

Activity difference not telling to you? She seems more active with her snark in these examples

thought it was when i started pressing her at first which was why i was questioning her on her approach to the game but i think it's at least partly attributable to the different pace of game and responses do not give me the feel of actual scum

[petapan]

i'm tired of the day phase and want to flip someone though

[petapan]

Cool.
Can we flip Marci.

I appreciate them, but like,
Their approach to this game is so wrong headed that I’m not sure where I’d start with them if they aren’t scum.

The best I can really say is that maybe they were ironically posting a caricature of a scum player while town because they don’t like us or the game and would like to exit stage left.
That’s honestly the most generous interpretation I can come up with that isn’t them just being scum this game.

she never endgames with a tracker claim anyway, just trust that if she's scum we find the others but if she's town we don't need to do scum's work for them

Peta I hear you.

Can you lay out explicitly with examples what I’m missing? Like I understand you are saying it’s similar, but what exactly.

It doesn’t help that I’m not the only one seeing it, but please help me.

yeah ok gimme a minute

[petapan]

is there an implication here that specific scum are doing this? if so, name and shame

no i don't have a read on someone specifically doing that this game

[petapan]

If anyone id argue Dunn but my current theory is it’s a distancing thing, but meh

I’m going to hear peta out

actually i've destroyed my own confidence in my read from rereading her iso

[petapan]

i was taking any confrontationalness to be a towntell and mainly just, uh, wanted to be empathetic given she's been weirdly combative to literally any pressure in games but it could be inauthentic here, idk. tone is different than what i thought it was

[petapan]

Last time I played pyp, mafia had first pick and locked in jailkeeper (same group as tracker)

So those voting for Marci knew she was first pick and had a power role, right?

I don't understand why the claim is causing votes to fall off. Did we only vote her to get a claim?

why are u so petty about it huh???

How am I being petty?

heres a question for u

why are u still pushing the pov of me being a bad guy instead of just letting me self resolve..? i think you should explain yourself instead of hating on me...
i think still pushing me is kinda survivalist tbh xxs

okay, so here's a question, how is dunn pushing you survivalist when he voted you before he received any pressure?

[petapan]

VOTE: marci

tick tock

[petapan]

i for one, would not vote out a tracker claim d1 but yall do you.

i dont remember anything anyone asked me around the time i claimed so pls ask it again or ull have to wait a few hours xoxo

i quoted you to ask you a question, i know it's in your notifications

[petapan]

who was it that talked about there probably being a UB earlier

it gets taken in these games pretty reliably

[petapan]

Open 867 - UB taken with pick #4
Open 853 - UB taken with pick #6
Open 841 - UB taken with pick #5
Open 825 - UB taken with pick #6
Open 798 - UB taken with pick #3
Open 794 - rolecop taken by scum with pick #1
Open 779 - UB taken with pick #10

i could go back further but i hope the point is clear enough

[petapan]

Last time I played pyp, mafia had first pick and locked in jailkeeper (same group as tracker)

So those voting for Marci knew she was first pick and had a power role, right?

I don't understand why the claim is causing votes to fall off. Did we only vote her to get a claim?

why are u so petty about it huh???

How am I being petty?

heres a question for u

why are u still pushing the pov of me being a bad guy instead of just letting me self resolve..? i think you should explain yourself instead of hating on me...
i think still pushing me is kinda survivalist tbh xxs

okay, so here's a question, how is dunn pushing you survivalist when he voted you before he received any pressure?

Spoiler:

Last time I played pyp, mafia had first pick and locked in jailkeeper (same group as tracker)

So those voting for Marci knew she was first pick and had a power role, right?

I don't understand why the claim is causing votes to fall off. Did we only vote her to get a claim?

why are u so petty about it huh???

How am I being petty?

heres a question for u

why are u still pushing the pov of me being a bad guy instead of just letting me self resolve..? i think you should explain yourself instead of hating on me...
i think still pushing me is kinda survivalist tbh xxs

i'm putting the original quote in spoiler tags so hopefully you see it and answer this time

[petapan]

it’s not about it being true it’s just the like
timing of it

i will ponder the matter

shrug lol it was the exact time i had been backing off marci so dunno what you would infer from that

[petapan]

Marci can you talk about your vote on unwnd

i havent cared to move it yet

since everyones been so obsessed w me i couldnt find much better

i want something that i can feel in my heart
kinda like how i feel in my heart that dunnstral is scum, but better!!

really? because as i recall you didn't get much attention at all for the first 30 pages or so, do you mean to tell me it was too hard to find "better" in that time?

[petapan]

she does not have to actually lie, if she's sum she is still almost certainly a real tracker

[petapan]

She still can't hide her choices of target

ok, and?

in a world where she's scum she can give entirely true results. they don't ever have to be anything useful.

[petapan]

i changed my mind about you cephir i think peta has a faster switch up than you had.. thats my thought i had while walking home

that's great, can you possibly answer the questions i've asked you about your reads, i've quoted you and you've dodged me on three separate occasions now

[petapan]

taly, dunn, someone who moved off of me after claim idk ill have to look later

can we talk abt this a bit

im not really interested in convincing anyone on anything, i just want to better my reads on things..

i know im lacking but you didnt hear me say that, i dont have flaws i swear

okay sure let's talk about it

why taly? you haven't mentioned him at all until recently and haven't explained why you scumread him

i assume dunn is because of his push on you, why does his push in particular look scum motivated to you?

[petapan]

tr: notscience, dragons, kingtroll until somebody actually explains to me whats wrong with them, peta, luke?

no one is voting kingtroll

but what has he posted to give you confidence he's town?

[petapan]

I dont know what the hell u guys are seeing in kingtroll but yall are blind af, the points yall are pushing on them seem perfectlly normal to me,
"Three wolves to find, I understand, so we've got this in the bag. I am not a wolf, so that's already one step closer we all are!"
the wording on this felt weird though, but im pretty sure i just hate people calling themselves town... otherwise they seemed fine tho..? I want to see more from them.

why do i still see kingtroll hate wtf

I feel like there's a distinct possibility that kingtroll is scum but we all want them to not be scum so we are engaged in mutually pretending they are town

am i dumb i genuinely dont see anything wrong with anything they've said?

here is everything you've posted about kingtroll to this point

the most you've said is you "don't see anything wrong" with what he's said but that's still a far cry from an actual townread. you said you wanted to see more from him, we've gotten a little more but not much, so i'm curious why you think he's town?

[petapan]

I guess my question for the people saying that the confrontational nature that Marci displayed in this game vs the games that got linked are similar, but different in some way, is: have you seen a single scum game from her that had that behavior at all?

Not to my knowledge. But then again, my argument for why she is scum was never solely based on this
She isn't just being confrontational, she has been dodging questions for a while now. She's been asked the same thing 3 or 4 times and disappears every time then doesn't acknowledge it.

wow :0 :0 :0 its almost like im busy!!@@ :0

really, wow, you're too busy to answer any of the very simple questions i've asked you about your reads?

[petapan]

you said you wanted to discuss things and every time i try to open a discussion you dodge me

[petapan]

stop overthinking this

[petapan]

shut up about tone/attitude

townies don't avoid answering clarifying questions repeatedly to pull nonsense like this


even if she somehow is town she's negative utility and refuses to actually play and should die for that alone

[petapan]

I know you don't worldview peta but humor me on it a bit? Doesn't have to be direct but like who else do you scumread?

the only compromise vote i feel right now is std, i think dunn more likely is a miss given he displayed what felt like sincere belief in his reads

[petapan]

I've been thinking Ceph is scum but have no reason for this

it's possible but i'm not keen on voting him today

[petapan]

i'm fairly sure marci gave away she knows KT is town, like it's impossible to read that as anything else

[petapan]

I'll vote marcistar if peta tells me his favorite death grips song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtRZmUmQ7a4

I’ll vote marcistar if peta tells me his favorite muse song

Karma Police

[petapan]

okay so the thread is like stagnating, people are apathetic

@unwnd and thread at large who is benefitting from it the most? are the “‘main wagons” (said like that bc things are fractured but i feel there’s a common core atm that people want to vote) scum who are trying to vibe with it and hope pressure alleviates, are they town who are just gonna be apathy wagoned?

i’m willing to put in a bit more work if other people want to too

it's day 1 of a mafia game and people are scared to commit to a vote is what's happening

[petapan]

Leashing a tracker seems like a spectacularly bad idea surely

I don't understand what's so forbidden about entertaining the hypothetical. This is what annoys me. I'd rather people talk about who they think marci should track or even hear where marci wants to 'use' her track because that is still committal to a read which works in our favor in both cases.

it's actively antitown

tracker has limited utility in this setup - the most you can do is get someone carrying the kill (and even then possibility of a vig exists), all other role use is null because it can be done by either alignment

giving scum an idea of who should not carry the kill makes the guessing game easy for them

[petapan]

ok thank you for your opinions on the matyer! who should i track?

I recommend you completely ignore everyone's opinion and do whatever the hell you want

this is the only correct answer

[petapan]

I also encourage a cop to check me, maybe a doctor to protect me too so scum can't shoot me overnight to deny the result given cop can't be protected.

I'd love to essentially become confirmed town when no cop suddenly claims "LLD is scum" right? Like.

Imagine me as confirmed town being protected running through this game that sounds disguisting.

this, on the other hand, is a perfectly fine idea that i debated bringing up but awsn't confident in


it's possible an ascetic cop exists in the setup. it's not guaranteed, because scum can take it to block the pick and sometimes town falls victim to the tragedy of the commons in assuming someone else will pick it instead of them, but it's useful to play under the assumption there might be one.

now, if there is a cop, it's only valuable as long as it's hidden, as once it's outed scum are going to kill it. to that end, the most useful thing the ascetic cop can do is generate clears. but it's also a problem if people don't know the clears and they get run up and the cop has to out for them

so if we agree to direct the cop and settle on a target, we get an assumed clear the next day

you obviously can't roll with this forever, you need confirmation of the cop's alignment at some point but for a couple days it makes play significantly easier

[petapan]

KingTroll[4]: Bell, marcistar, Cephrir, unwnd
Save The Dragons[2]: Lukewarm, Dunnstral,
marcistar[2]: Lady Lambdadelta,petapan,
Dunnstral[2]: GreyICE, Save The Dragons,

Not Voting [4]: KingTroll, Ydrasse, notscience, Taly,

Look, here's what's going to happen:

We're going to yeet someone, probably someone in the perceived lower half of skill level of the players in the game that had the most uninspired d1 by t0an and/or volume; hopefully we're right

The wolves are going to SPK someone, probably LLD if she's a villager and/or has something that could be minimally construed as a correct fakepeek, and then some other shit may or may not happen and we'll have NK/mechanical stuff to talk about

It's hard to gin up enthusiasm when the real game isn't actually going to start for the better part of 48 hours, and having ydrasse act like she's all clever for voting me because there's a 25% chance she could be right and have gotten in on the ground floor is just stupid, and it's insulting that you think it would be at all productive regardless of my role

[petapan]

ideally you want someone who is likely town and not going to be nightkilled, GI fits that bill pretty decently

my draft position is shit enough that i don't think i'm a likely NK unless scum inexplicably fear my dayplay or are doc dodging but shrug

[petapan]

i don't really find marci's response to be satisfactory to me at all but shrug


i refuse to vote kingtroll out of principle but if folks want to take the path of least resistance to get out of Day 1 they have my permission to go ahead


on review i feel like my townread of taly has gotten stale and the reasons for it weren't that good in the first place

that's where i'm at

[petapan]

i think hypo can be a bit of a straitjacket on dayplay but if done properly it's brutal for scum

[petapan]

There was a brief moment that GreyICE talked about this. I've thought about the number selection more. How likely is it for two partners to pick the same number? Thoughts in my head ranged from 'this means Taly/Peta/Notty can't be a team' but I'm unsure if that has substantial backing.

scum have literally almost never doubled up across 30+ games if you count PYP X/Y as well as the primordial instances of the setup

last time i played this as scum (and the only time i've drafted as scum) my team did so poorly in the draft (coming away with only a 1 shot vig and nothing else) that it completely massacred our morale straight out of the gate and made the game much harder than it should have been, and that was without intentional doubling

i think in practice i'd basically never do it now because the reward of a potential false clear is not worth the potential risk in tanking your team's draft

[petapan]

It was mostly my real life tasks getting compounded and my brain being unable to focus on anything other than a clicker game in my spare time.

they really need to fix the font kerning on the new forum layout lmao

[petapan]

oh and we're not limming

marci

, D1 PR claims always need a pass

this is a pretty bizarre post to make in an open setup where claims are entirely NAI and you can tell from the first page of the game who likely has a PR

especially given taly didn't say shit about this when there was suspicion on marci in the first place

[petapan]

So do you think the people with duplicates are likely unaligned if one of those duplicates is scum?

i would be confident enough to be the game on it barring an

incredibly

strong case

[petapan]

I got the willies about your push peta where my mind drifted off into

You advocating for the mislim on marci because you were cornered into it a bit. I know it's a dangerous line to tow where you fake-convince yourself someone is scum and backing out feels no longer a choice. You had a brief moment where you relapsed on it however but for some reason you were back on it and it made me drop you to null. I definitely felt like I was being instigated to some effect, so if that was not your intention then please clarify

i don't understand what you're asking

[petapan]

Less asking something and more like defend yourself

I thought you were instigating this marci push and I stopped believing the reason for it

i still believe it and think people let her off the hook too easily. if she's town i'm not sure why scum surrendered that vote so easily unless they were afraid of the optics

we don't know her alignment yet, but if i'm wrong and she's town it doesn't make me scum

regardless if you think i'm scum for it go right ahead i don't actually care if you scumread me

[petapan]

So is she obnoxiously obvious scum and you think I'm an idiot or

She's just scum because she's doing scum behavior iyo

the latter

I can't ask you to give me a worldview

But I can ask you for other people you are scumreading

taly

don't think i have another that's really strong atp i think fenrir is an unsubstantiated gut read that could be totally wrong

[petapan]

If you were scum you would care if he scum read you right

if this is @ me then yeah lol, i'm probably too sensitive to that but it's not something most people pick up on

i'm not getting flipped today and so don't care to answer to him demanding i prove myself town based on a flight of fancy, i'll discuss reads on anyone for the sake of discussion though.

[petapan]

I’m open to other options.

Peta, for instance, is on the table for me.

I'm interested in this thought btw

You know who’s REALLY trying to make sure they don’t lose the marci elim?

I feel like this is another example of peta saying something he’s trying to do lol

Like getting me out of the marci tunnel then deciding she’s scum and shoving it to try and get me back in it

that is not the sequence of events as it happened

what happened was i

tried

to get you out of the tunnel, you rejected that and asked me to try to make a convincing case, on reread of her iso i began to doubt myself because i felt like her tone was off compared to the town games and also i had issues with some of the things she said that seemed odd to me

i asked her questions about these things and tried to chase her down over 2 days to get a straight answer to these. during this time she would show up in thread to make some cheeky comments while pointedly ignoring me asking her questions about her reads. when i finally got her to answer, she answered one question i asked about her townread of kingtroll (that she has since gone back on), with an answer i found wholly inadequate

during this same time period a bunch of people decided "oh she's town tried harder in the scumgames" and backed off and are going for kingtroll because no one wants to vote out someone who'd be mad at them for being wrong



but even process-wise if the narrative chain of events was the way you said it was - what the FUCK am i doing here as scum??? i'm fighting hard against the marci elim in the first place only to 180 after people are convinced? literally making my life as hard as possible? like how does that make any rational sense as scumplay? also the idea that apparently i'm so trapped that i have to aggressively pursue the elimination of the slot with the top pick, a slot people are naturally going to be resistan to eliminate?? like what is the implication here, that as scum i'm unable to pursue another target?? i'm trying really hard to save

kingtroll

, a player who is barely playing the game?


i dunno dude i think you're making a basic logical fallacy here where you see aggressive play and call it scummy without any actual logical connection to why having that strong read makes me scum

[petapan]

Also I regard peta pretty highly and he’s made multiple attempts to try and discredit his own reads this game

i win approximately 40% of my games as town, i could name multiple games where i ran it up mid for almost everyone in this list i've played with


i'm probably wrong as shit on almost everything!


but again why does this make me scum lol

[petapan]

someone just end the day imo

i would but i still refuse to participate in this wagon out of principle

[petapan]

oh and we're not limming

marci

, D1 PR claims always need a pass

this is a pretty bizarre post to make in an open setup where claims are entirely NAI and you can tell from the first page of the game who likely has a PR

especially given taly didn't say shit about this when there was suspicion on marci in the first place

I missed that line while trying to get current.

@Taly, if you felt this way, is there a reason that you were okay with a Marci vote before? She has been guarantied a PR since the start of the game. Were you aware of her position on the draft sheet when you voted her?

i mean dude that was literally an rvs vote i don't know what you're on about

[petapan]

realistically what are people waiting for with the claim? we know he has a role, we know it's not indicative of alignment, are we going to flop off onto a random target because we're scared of losing a town power role and rush everything at the last minute?

we've had 2 days to discuss possible alternatives if the wagon dies and almost no one has actually done that

[petapan]

I would like to apologize for calling Petapan Principled Peta.

I would like to instead say that principled people are The Worst.

im not the worst im petapan

[petapan]

also tbf i didn't realize it was E-1

[petapan]

i think it's possible he flips red at this point but 0 shock if he's green

if he's scum please don't get dumb with it, very high probability he'd be bussed playing the way he was

bell/unwnd/notty all town, lld probably town as well

[petapan]

"stacked" game eliminates lowposting town newbie day 1

[petapan]

luke's reads list looked like a scumclam in all honesty

[petapan]

hypothetical innocent on dunnstral

[petapan]

VOTE: marci

[petapan]

marci was a better lim probably in retrospect ):

yeah no shit but i got a ton of blowback for saying that

[petapan]

taly is another one where i don't think i necessarily fleshed out my read but: i think i gave him too much credit for getting serious early, in hindsight every suspicion he had was incredibly tepid and halfhearted, handling of the marci claim was nonsensical

[petapan]

Let's talk numbers

I'm not saying marci is out of the question, but marci having the #1 draft and her being a lim candidate feels like shitplay from a team who would let power like that go to waste

???

[petapan]

Peta is implying he thinks Luke/Marci

I'd like more than implication

ithink they're both scummy

i think luke is putting all town in his scumreads and me/dunn are people you put down there when you don't have better options

i'd gladly throw him into the fire as well

[petapan]

God damnit I lost five posts to this goddamn mobile website

I want to kill peta or lld and before peta asks no I didn’t read his walls ya boys been busy

my suggestion is to get goddamn good

[petapan]

uncanny

i should also say though i'm already townreading both of you, ceph kill ~strongly implies you/bell are town as it was a PR hunt kill that i don't think scum makes if they had a crack at the premium roles

[petapan]

And I agree with you

What's the stake of limming between LLD/StD

You were someone who believed scum won't double up, and I'd love to test that theory

I'm not basing this entirely on numbers either, I think StD is scummy

i think it's not impossible that they could gambit. but that's kind of only something i speculate on after one flips red. fenrir is kind of a could go either way read right now, i have like vague noises in my head making me doubt but nothing concrete i can point to

[petapan]

VOTE: peta

Prob just parking here or lld for the day tbh

you're a towel

[petapan]

The amount of TMI you could be holding if marci flips red is pretty large to me

You commented something to the effect of 'marci is spewing she knows KT is town'

Well here we are

then help me bus dude

[petapan]

i should also say that - in a hypothetical marci-scum world you'd have to think i'm coocoo to try to hard bus my tracker teammate Day 1 to hand the role to a town universal backup because getting mechanically locked out is how i lose scumgames

[petapan]

Town

unwnd
bell
dunn
ydrasse (she's situated herself here for reasons i don't care to get into)
notscience

Lean Town

lld

Possible Scum/POE

marci
STD
lukewarm
greyice
taly


i think luke and STD are very unlikely to be aligned and are potentially a difference check and to my mind it's better to vote outside that grouping as of right now because it provides higher odds of a hit

[petapan]

I'm very very mad that I unvoted to give KT the extra space, we had like 2 days, and people were that fucking impatient.

Maybe he never comes and my outrage at this doesn't mean anything but like, fuck dude.

i am sorry about that for what it's worth but he was approaching prod range and flaked past his own self-imposed time he said he'd be returning


i'm still annoyed with the fact that it happened on like a sportsmanship/site health level but some people are really intent on throwing this game

[petapan]

Yeah I'm just facechecking you

I think this day needs to be more open in general

this is the most transparent i will ever be in a game, i am not holding back with regard to my reads or how i perceive the game, i will discuss anything there is to be discussed


i am holding back in regard to notscience because though i want to put him on blast i recognize no one else in the game wants that but he's testing my patience

[petapan]

If someone believes StD's self-righteousness is a townie thing (even from meta) please speak up now

definitively, it isn't

[petapan]

If that's what you feel then I think it will help me determine your alignment so

Be as conscientious as you want with mod ToS in mind

i don't really want to be that person and i don't want to be read off things like that

[petapan]

I'd just like a inkling of why you think notty's logic has no credibility here

that i can do

i addressed this before, but he thinks blindly me having strong confidence in a read = scum, when i push hard all the time as town too

i think i've elaborated plenty on the fact that i don't think marci has been authentic in her responses, she isn't solving. her kingtroll read reeked and made no sense, and had all the hallmarks of scum trying to white knight an easy misyeet. my initial read of her being combative in response to pressure was off because i think in review of the town games she was a lot more acidic and upset that people were misreading her where here there was some light sass but no real righteousness behind it

his rebuttal is that she faked solving more in this scum games which i find to be wholly unconvincing. he's since resorted to blindly headhunting and tunneling illogically rather than forming any sort of coherent or logical argument. i think him getting stubborn and digging in his heels on a bad stance makes him equivalent to a 4th wolf but he's likely to see any challenge at all as an attempt to undermine him and use it as an excuse to double down. i don't even know where the overprotectiveness of a player who is barely contributing comes from, i think kingtroll had honestly showed moe intention to gamesolve.


i think it's not ~impossible i'm misfiring on town-marci who is simply playing inexplicably badly but i feel reasonably secure in the people i'm townreading at this moment and am okay to compromise to other suspects but i need some semblance of rational argument as to who to flip

[petapan]

I suppose hypocrisy in and of itself isn’t a scumtell necessarily, but it felt like he wanted to play opposition while the wagon reached critical mass but then changed his tune when he realized he was about to lose out on a miselim.

Like, his scum pool has 4 REALLY EASY pushes and lukewarm, for a scummy readslist? I feel like we’ve all made comments about how this game is going to be super difficult and peta himself has mentioned reading back and reviewing to see who has scum intent and this is truly the best he can come up with?

His defense of KT yesterday on the premise of “marci tmi” both tries to white knight for towncred and set up his day 2 push ahead of time.

The actual post if summary isn't enough

i think i actively missed that post because i was eating lunch and clearly the game is moving too fast for me


i again reiterate that he's living in a presupposition that "this is what scum could be doing" = "this is what is happening" which is logically fallacious

i said it at the time but i was actively working to discourage suspicion on marci only to then flip my view, which is gamethrowingly bad play if town


i strongly contest the notion that POE is "really easy" given the staggering fucking difficulty it is taking to kill any of them

but beyond that what the fuck is the expectation? who is he trying to argue i'm misclearing? i have no fucking idea. the 'difficult' pushes are also mostly accepted as town, other than dunn, who is my cop innocent, i don't manufacture reads to please and show i'm hitting hrd targets, that's maybe something i'd be conscientous of moreso as scum but my worldview has to be informed by where my reads take me. i'm not going to tunnel lld because 'the game has to be hard', i need evidence and so far nothing actually points me to her, i don't even know what about that pool he's trying to dispute

[petapan]

You had a light reprieve where you thought marci was maybe town, which sticks out in my memory

It's not that I personally hold you where I think 'well you had that small moment yet you're speaking so audaciously about marci being scum' it's just like an anomaly

When did you decide that 'no I'm actually right' in that regard? Or what was that anomaly

the reprieve was specifically when she came in with a grouchy response to pressure and it eminded me of her townplay

i even actively worked to dissuade notscience of his view by linking recent games as evidence only to have him come back doubtng it still and ask me to put it into words only for me to review it and decide that i was in the wrong. that was like the most moment in this game he felt actually willing to have a rational discussion.

by the point i reverse my view, the wagon had already started to dissipate. again, this is borderline nonsensical play as scum because i'd have actively worked to make my life harder to get a mis-elim. the sense that i even could performatively distance from it is pretty bizarre given i started the wagon in the first place and would probably take some culpability even if wrong. but in general as scum while i might distance myself from a mis-elimination that seems inevitable i don't go out of my way to make it harder to push through.

i also think as scum here i wouldn't really care about forcing through a marci kill! she literally isn't playing the game and so poses no threat via dayplay while tracker is a pretty bad PR tha isn't likely to produce a guilty. i can easily backburner her and then force a mis-elim through on ELO when she hasn't turned up any results or done anything literally all game.

conversely as town i have some degree of urgency because giving scum a free pass for multiple day phases off a claim can be spectacularly damaging to the game because it increases the likelihood you pursue false leads and scum are going to kill off useful players in the meantime making life harder for whoever is left


further, the idea that i REALLY needed to mis-elim marci as scum makes no sense when clearly town was sleepwalking into the kingtroll yeet so like what the fuck am i so pressed about

[petapan]

which is gamethrowingly bad play if town

It's a good thing I've got an inno on you or I'd be second guessing this

*gamethrowingly bad play if scum

dunno how that slipped my mind in writing but it did

[petapan]

if i had to weigh in on the StD/Luke dichotomy i'd be actively more inclined to flip luke

[petapan]

Freud wide awake

Spoiler:

[petapan]

that's sad but it's. probably for stuff outside the game. so.

[petapan]

yeah you just need to move on

[petapan]

it occurred to me if KT had claimed it would be hard clearing and now i regret being so laissez-faire with that elim

that doesn't mean anything and it's not useful to continuing to solve my brain just wandered there

[petapan]

yeah you just need to move on

C'est plus facile dit que fait.

yeah you're right


i think i've said my piece i'm gonna take a break to let the game breathe

[petapan]

I don’t understand why that claim would be hard clearing, wouldn’t he still have that role as scum?

What scum in pick 3 selects Neighbour?

I feel like that’s one of the strongest roles in the setup as either alignment

you really do have no idea how to play scum huh lmao

[petapan]

ffery did you replace into a scum slot yet again

[petapan]

No, thank Tlaloc!

I wanted to grab this replacement before someone else did, but it's going to be a couple hours before I can dig in.

my reaction is mostly a big sigh and a "why are you doing this to yourself" but welcome to the game nontheless

[petapan]

what did i even do in the first 10 pages

[petapan]

what did i even do in the first 10 pages

you petapandered to the thread

dayvig: lady lambdadelta

[petapan]

I just can’t wait for ffery to try and go dig up meta and run into the site changed

they added the link back

[petapan]

Who else was listed marci? Feel there isn't much I need to say there. She practically exists in her own world and she's dragged by the thread.

"the thread" where last i checked she's majority townread despite the fact she's not attempting to solve

[petapan]

i also think ffery walked straight into the landmine of TMIing me town after doing it as scum in the last game we played together

[petapan]

It was my specific interaction with him that devolved into nothingness

He just seems like he's wasting time in various places

I'm not trying to insinuate that I think StD contributions are weightless, so why is he trying to make them so

Like it's all just 'on to the next thing' for him and it's why I think he's scum

Just going through the motions or whatever suits something more common. Can

you

tell me some sort of individualized take he's made?

i'm going to say no to this but note that i think he can still easily be town because he trensd toward blunt understatement as either alignment. i wouldn't necessarily oppose a flip just giving a note of caution

[petapan]

yeah i read std's iso in white flag and this game and i'd be okay with voting him

[petapan]

Did I mention I'm upset that KT fliped green, because I'm pretty sad about that.
I genuinely don't know how I was supposed to tell. I guess there were some hints in how they formulated their reads lists on people. But sigh. A minor inkling.

i think he was entirely findable as town for the record but i don't feel like lecturing on it

[petapan]

is this supposed to be an "attempt"

i tr dragons

kinda ydrasse but not rlly ?

[petapan]

yeah i read std's iso in white flag and this game and i'd be okay with voting him

Can you elaborate

There are some differences between this game and white flag that might account for difference in play

obviously we're working from a difference in content where you replaced into that game and this one was from the start and you were joking around which is null but in that game you had takes for days and were actively formng opinions on things where in this game you've been mostly just existing, it doesn't feel like there's the same quantity of opinions from you

[petapan]

There is a pressure to perform in this game that doesn't exist in the other game due to player list.

I also feel like the people in that game were more likely to talk to me where here they are more likely to talk about or around me. You could certainly ask for my takes but that's not the approach you took here.

I did have several takes this game and I got in my own head about them. I am trying to be more careful because I don't want to hurt myself.

I think dunnstral being scum is a take and my absence on the kt wagon is a take and my hypo cop claim on bell is a take

i usually don't ask for takes unless someone has unclear stances and i want them to elaborate. i think most people can manufacture stances on the spot and you're certainly capable of it, it's more about seeing what people choose to do when left to their own devices. i understand that you have those stances and have made them clear but i'm not sure it adds up to actually solving the game to me. i don't agree with dunn being scum and think there's potentially an element of survivalism in how you're going back after him


you're also probably my 3rd strongest scumread or at least in a tossup with taly (who has siteflaked and so we have to wait for her to finally hit the replacement threshold). however i get fucking viciously attacked for suggesting my other 2 scumreads are scum and i'm trying to find ground where i can vote someone who might be scum or would at least illuminate who the scum are in terms of how people positioned around you

[petapan]

I dunno if it's survivalism if I

1) scumread dunn before dunn scumread me
2) scumread dunn before GI did his hypo claim
3) chose to go after someone not super likely to get limmed today instead of someone like Marci who might actually get limmed today since I did express a sr on her in the past

well i didn't remember the timing of you two scumreading each other

[petapan]

You don't think Dunn is scum? What do you think about those platitudes I described then

And what about uh GI lol

@Petapan

no i don't think he's scum, it felt to me like his brain was actually turned on this game

greyice shrug is probably town

[petapan]

Peta you can scumread me for it if you want but it's going to take a lot to shake my townread of you after page 54.

sure. if you're town just keep playing and hopefully i'll figure it out because you're one of the only people that might speak to me like a human being

[petapan]

Which two Notscience

LLD and Peta?

Yes, as I’ve already said it feels like a keep the status quo kill

generally speaking that's not how i do nightkills but i'm not going to stand up here and stamp my feet and deny i'd ever kill ceph because it would probably be intellectually dishonest. you're still not considering other likely motivating factors becaue i don't think you understand sum pov - there's an aspect of possibly dodging a doctor, as well as the big honking glaring draft board that could tell you scum are likely cop hunting.

i dunno that any of that should be clearing of me but i think you're selling other people short in that regard. to my mind probably i'd have killed bell or unwnd ans they'd be more of a hassle in terms of dayplay (no disrespect to ceph i swear)

[petapan]

Peta you can scumread me for it if you want but it's going to take a lot to shake my townread of you after page 54.

sure. if you're town just keep playing and hopefully i'll figure it out because you're one of the only people that might speak to me like a human being

Feel like you've been more game logic than just casual chatter this game

Is this not what you prefer?

i don't know what you're even trying to say here

[petapan]

I think maybe I looked past your own issue so instead of being ignorant

Why do you feel people aren't talking to you like a human being

i feel like notscience is locked in his tunnel and when a player gets like that they can't be reasoned with (it's a personal flaw of mine to get frustrated and shut down communication but i see a lack of making inroads there). bell doesn't really work with people. you're doing weird navelgazing shit instead of directly addressing things. i could talk with ydrasse when she's motivated but i dunno where she is right now. that leaves me feeling like i'm not really getting much in the way of actually discussing anything

petaaaaaaaaaaaaa

if you wanna talk to me about reads and garbage and have human time talk with friends i'm like, totally here okay?

yeah sure but i saw battlebots was on tv so give me like 20 minutes

[petapan]

No they'll be here we sent for them to ride in on a giant petapanda

Nah, not enough colour. We need a new petapantone.

Oof you might not like this then....the petapanda broke down but they brought in a petapanther

this is what will get me to finally retire this account

[petapan]

I find the navel gazing to be fun because I enjoy writing. It sometimes get a bit too novel though and I get that

I'm willing to tone it down based on who I'm speaking with

Why do you think I never navel at Ydra

i mean it's 2 years old but the game where we both basically threw because we spent the whole game talking past each other and lost to fuckin votato on a ban dodge alt where he didn't play the game at all weighs on my mind. if you have issues with me be direct about them in clear language because i want to be able to have a real conversation.

[petapan]

at the risk of being cringe, in all sincerity i was close to getting unseasonably tilted at this game and the punfest and fire emblem nonsense brought some much needed levity back in so thank you

[petapan]

Oh I mentioned in my metaing that in every scumgame of hers I noticed her being more tryhard and had a readslist at least once but I hadn’t seen one at all here lol

i think this is an absurdly logically fallacious reason to clear someone but i kind of want you to lose to it

[petapan]

3) "They don't seem to have any insights today" i already said i dont feel like its welcomed be fr, nobody actually cares for what i think or have to say

this is factually untrue and i have pressed you for your thoughts on multiple occasions, only to get evasive responses that illuminate nothing

[petapan]

Like, you are complaining I am tunneling and I’m actively trying to piece things together which is necessary to get out of the tunnel and another goddamn pot shot. I get it, you think I suck, how the fuck am I supposed to work with you when you put Shot me every 3 fucking pages

criticizing a read shouldn't be taken as a pot shot. i think it's kind of an obvious fallacy to say that her not posting a reads list makes her town. that she put in some vague undetermined level of effort in past games does not ensure she will always consistently apply that in future scum games. if she's town i find her play incomprehensible on basically any logical level and there are glaring issues with things she has dne, like her whole play around kingtroll. to have that stuff i've raised brushed aside because she did something as trivial as posting reads lists as scum angers me.

saying i want you to lose is cruel but i had hoped it would be understandable as criticism of the idea and not of you. but i am sorry and if you feel like i've been taking potshots at you as a player i'll be more careful with my language from here on out

[petapan]

Peta you can scumread me for it if you want but it's going to take a lot to shake my townread of you after page 54.

sure. if you're town just keep playing and hopefully i'll figure it out because you're one of the only people that might speak to me like a human being

What do you want to talk about?

shrug, i've been locked in on your top two town for a while so not a ton to discuss there but i need something...more as to how you're reading the rest of the game

[petapan]

Candidly? Look at Fferys townread reasons for me- I honestly get pretty antsy bringing it up in thread. It’s the same fucking thing with peta. Like I realize I haven’t been the most lucid with that read and it frankly could be paranoia induced.

you take issue with me townreading you? i'm not sure i've ever fully elucidated the thought process but i haven't felt it was necessary

[petapan]

Look peta, cards on the table, I respect the fuck out of you. Maybe it’s not your intention it’s just not a fun thing to read over and over again and could just be me being sensitive, but I think you underestimate what I think that doesn’t necessarily always hit the thread (which is verifiable from those who’ve hydra’d with me but also doesn’t matter for the point at hand)

I genuinely have been considering your stance about Luke and marci. I was thinking about Luke’s pop in to defend her when her back is against the wall and what that means in the grand scheme of things.

I totally recognize marci is doing absolutely nothing and I don’t want that to get lost, and I’m actively encouraging her to do more things.

Let’s assume for a second Luke’s telling the truth about how marci views scum and not wanting to let her team down- how does this gameplay relate to that? I recognize the obvious answer is “he lied bc scum with her” and I’ll try to look and fact check it a little more Saturday, but this is my holdup voting there.

want doesn't always equal will if that makes sense.

if she's scum who's feeling a lot of the heat from being pressed on then psychologically it can become a lot more difficult to contribute without feeling like anything she says might be a mistake and might cost her teammates. if she can hang back and survive on Appeals to Emotion that's a valid route - shit, i've fucking done that. a scum player in her position doesn't need to do a lot they just need to buy time and plant false associatives so if she's scum she's following a perfectly fine gameplan

in my eyes luke was at best wolfsiding heavily and so his defense of her doesn't mean a whole lot to me. he could be town who's too biased on the read, he could be scum outright. the logic itself isn't super compelling to me.

appreciate you taking the time to be more open with me

[petapan]

Peta you can scumread me for it if you want but it's going to take a lot to shake my townread of you after page 54.

sure. if you're town just keep playing and hopefully i'll figure it out because you're one of the only people that might speak to me like a human being

What do you want to talk about?

shrug, i've been locked in on your top two town for a while so not a ton to discuss there but i need something...more as to how you're reading the rest of the game

I'm going to attempt a tiered list after I run my fingers through some isos later. You're townreading notsci. Do you have any issues with my Bell read, and if so what?

none, they're both in the group of people i'm fairly strongly confident about

[petapan]

Candidly? Look at Fferys townread reasons for me- I honestly get pretty antsy bringing it up in thread. It’s the same fucking thing with peta. Like I realize I haven’t been the most lucid with that read and it frankly could be paranoia induced.

you take issue with me townreading you? i'm not sure i've ever fully elucidated the thought process but i haven't felt it was necessary

LLD was asking why I was being so wishywashy and erratic with my scumreads on the two of you and I’m trying to justify it here

oh lmao

i'm town dude. even if i was scum i don't think i ever try to get you misyeeted because i don't want that struggle i'm not an achievement hunter. ou have the model for it but as scum i would put 100% of my energy toward pocketing you

[petapan]

Actually one person I'd like some feedback on is Taly.

I felt like she was picking up suspicion initially day 1, and then it subsided.

I don't have any real experience playing with her. I followed one game she played pretty closely. She was blindingly obvious town to me, and to the entire player list. It was one of Ydra's theme games with a different minigame each day.

My other experience was replacing town-her in a newbie game. I think those games were concurrent or very close, and based on her newbie game iso it wouldn't have shocked me if she'd been scum. Compared to the ball of fire in the theme game she was low energy, and picked up quite a few scumreads. I got through that day 1 (unexpectedly) but was eliminated the day before ELO, pretty much with my blessing.

Her play here is closer to the newbie game, but she made more waves before she kinda faded out.

I'm not sure how to process all that. I guess I'll see what I make of her replacement if that happens.

i think she's possible scum. i discussed it but i gave her credit for getting serious early but in hindsight her scumreads were incredibly tepid.

my experience replacing into a game with scum-her was that she was an incredibly easy catch because she displayed basically no solving energy (Open 835)

i remember that newbie game and would have sworn for my life she was scum so i recognize there's error bars there. i think energy level/attention to the game is variable and she flakes fairly often so it's probably a nulltell behaviorally

[petapan]

i feel like a comedyy relief character

the door opens and everyone in the bar goes "YDRASSE!" at the same time

[petapan]

I want ffery and peta to both be town but I'm not sure if they both are

Oh, don't worry... they are

uh what turned you around on ffery

[petapan]

when i push hard all the time as town too

Sometimes you don't though.

(I recently insomnia-reread Not Quite Normal 1)

It was probably a passing fancy.

what i mean by that is "i push hard (very frequently)" not "i push hard (literally always)" butunderstand the linguistic ambiguity

[petapan]

std/dunn is never s/s, yes

i ruled out him and luke but i'm not convinced that's never the case tbh though i guess we can cross that bridge later

lld's handling of dunn raised slight red flags for me in that i could kind of see it as a moment where the wolf shows its teeth but she didn't go straight for the kill on him so i think she's still probably good

[petapan]

Marci is just there because I see people still want marci dead (Peta, et al). I don't know what marci is up to but I've seen her come in here saying that we don't care about her reads and then someone will say 'Yeah Marci, we actually do' then she leaves. I have to ask myself if I want that type of play to be anywhere near the top-half of a readlist.

As far as her claim goes? I believe someone said that outing her result gives scum a lead on other PRs because she claimed her target didn't visit anyone.

If you actually think she's scum, then there's two possibilities:

- She's actually the Tracker at which point

scum know the fucking results

- She has to fakeclaim, meaning she either fakeclaims a target on a scumbuddy, or risks fucking it up.

Or you could think she's town. Do you think she's town?

no she can literally be a tracker who is still scum? what are you on about

[petapan]

i was reading too quickly

[petapan]

VOTE: save the dragons

[petapan]

VOTE: RH9

[petapan]

i think that's a read that's made from an informed perspective

[petapan]

How so?

i think the immediate defense of a layer under suspicion using vague descriptors that are really fairly meaningless comes from wanting to distance himself from a push but not having actually done real analysis to come to that conclusion. i think "why std?" in his position would be valid. i think "seems pretty normal" to me is not and the explanation is wholly unconvincing that these are RH9's real, organic thoughts

[petapan]

he's not a medical doctor i don't trust his advice

[petapan]

marci

[petapan]

[petapan]

i find it kind of weird how little a response me immediately hip-checking rh9 out of the game got

[petapan]

hi firebringer

[petapan]

i find it kind of weird how little a response me immediately hip-checking rh9 out of the game got

on peux pas parler des replacements.

so i'm not wholy sure what you want us to talk about here. Again, 3 people last night discussed murdering Firebringer.

my reading comprehension is pretty bad today it seems

[petapan]

i am sort of back. really tired

2 things:
1) marcistar avatar is horrifying

2) I haven't read anything. Someone give me a tldr or what is important to read or something.

i dunno what's actually important

marcistar got run up and claimed tracker and there's significant resistance to flipping her even though the most she gives is a handful of sporadic one liners with befuddling reasoning, at this point she's either scum or a strategic miselim being saved by scum and the defense of her is almost certainly scum motivated

dunnstral and save the dragons are tunneling each other

that's about it