Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!

[saberwolf]

Hi, this is Saberwolf replacing for The Corporation.

I'm not completely caught up, but I'll do my best to contribute.

[saberwolf]

I'm still reading, but just to warn you, and others can verify:

you are apparantly expecting me to start posting townish and unscum pablito. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have a hard time with that...I make myself seem scummy as it is, without having to deal with another person's scumishness.

oh well

[saberwolf]

I'm still reading, but just to warn you, and others can verify:

you are apparantly expecting me to start posting townish and unscum pablito. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have a hard time with that...I make myself seem scummy as it is, without having to deal with another person's scumishness.

oh well

What do you mean by this?

As long as you're contributing and have opinions, I can't see us immediately calling you scum - - I'm confused by your statement about making yourself seem scummy

I'm not exactly sure myself, but 90% of all of my games I get lynched day 1...100% of those day 1 lynches I'm town.

[saberwolf]

ok so 70 pages is too much to process, so I'll prob cut it down to just things that stood out.

I actually think that andytony is the most likely to be scum here.

Reason's why and theories to follow.

[saberwolf]

I'm here

No kill means jailkeeper was successful or mafia didn't kill. Not going to delve into the folds of OMGUS there.

I think Kdub's case on AndyTony is a bit weak.

I think Kdub's case was not the greatest, but it had some merit to it. I smell discrediting tactics here to save his scumbuddy.


next part comes next.

i accidentally deleted half my notes btw >.<

[saberwolf]

reading discussions between zero, AT and Khamisa, I place them as the three scum. They were trying to discretely bus.

[saberwolf]

zero being chinaman.

[saberwolf]

I went back to the first page to try to find a quick and easy way to access some information I'm trying to find in this game, and that's when I noticed the roles.

So I now have a question:

Shouldn't we, while we still have them both, have the doctor and the jail person claim? That way, doctor can protect jail, jail can protect doctor, and jail can attempt to stop a night kill every night. At worst we have 2 town and 1 scum by the end, and the we know who to lynch. If it was down to four you'd simply no lynch.


btw I just realised I'm gonna be disappointing a lot of you with my actual results...

[saberwolf]

ugggghhhh...ffs, i cant retain this much information!!!!!

I'll do my best to keep going...obviously my input is flawed, but I can't even remember what happened on page 1, let alone the whole thing...

I might ask for a replacement, but I hate to quit....

[saberwolf]

screw this. i dont want to add another town loss to my sig. its bad enough i only just won my first one...it's clear I'm going next.

I quit, find me a replacement.

oh, and i dont keep my game records when I'm done. I "burn" them, so that I don't have a meta.

[saberwolf]

oh and i only found out it was 70 pages AFTER i accepted.

actually, no, I stay. It won't matter who is doing this, they're bound to be lynched next.

vote: saberwolf

[saberwolf]

Some questions for Saberwolf:
Can you quote where you think AT, China, and Khamisa were bussing each other and why you interpreted it as bussing between scum?
What are your reasons for suspecting AT?
What was your opinion of pablito's play before you replaced him?

doesnt mean i cant help out where i can....


i saw certain posts where i tended to think theyd make great bussing posts.

I read the whole thing.....5 times. Don't ask me to recall anything though, cause I don't remember shit. This is a game where you need to have been there to follow along.

I suspect AT because:

1. i don't like him and his playstyle
2. his way of posting is hard to read through and i find disguises away from him and more on others in a hide behind wordplay way.
3. This isn't like the other game where he was town. Once again, don't ask me to link, cause I don't have it. Consider this point void, but for me it works.
4. Some of his posts just seem weird, and coincide with others just too well.
5. i needed to suspect someone.


So yeah, none of those earn me town points, but when someone with ADHD and a 20 second attention span takes on this, dont expect too much.

Pablito's play was pretty scummy, and I groaned after reading the last bit, cause I was pretty positive I was not getting him out of it.

I recall page 11, and i think 67 for the bussing. plus if you ISO khamisa theres one post that is a great bussing possibility.

but of course im useless, so dont even consider any of this post. In fact, I just made you stupider and less useful of a scumhunter because of it.


oh well

[saberwolf]

I'm searching for a replacement for my game, Open 144 - Near-Vanilla, so I'm PMing some people that are on the online list right now. Would you be interested?

thats all i got in the PM


once I replied, he gave me the link and told me day 4 had just started.

[saberwolf]

Vote: saberwolf

. You're appealing to emotion, and there's no good way for you to not have known how long this game was. This is Crazy's post in the replacement thread:

[mrow]

Requested

[col]

Name/Type/Flavor

[col]

Moderator

[col]

Length

[col]

Notes

September 26th[col]Open 144 - Near-Vanilla[col]Crazy[col]Day 3, 68 pages[col]Replacing pablito. Deadline is about to happen so you'll be able to catch up during the Night Phase.

And this is filled. Thanks, saberwolf!

Cut the crap. You knew how long this game was.

yes im AtE, yes im OMGUS, yes im raping your mother, just lynch me already. You knew it was gonna happen anyways. AND just to be a bitch, I'll wait until L-1, replacement out so it don't count on my games, and still show up for the bah post.

[saberwolf]

why do I need to play to win if I decided to bail at the last minute?

HoF: Chinaman

at least you're not afraid to question my behaviour.

AT, I already answered the questions I believe?

[saberwolf]

btw, no AtE here, if anything, it's to attract attention.

[saberwolf]

some very good points chinaman, and i applaud you...it's just too bad you're wrong on so many parts

but yeah, it could be because I'm a power role that I think that you'll lose with my lynch, but it actually is not the case, as I am not a power role, I am just a VT.

would you like me replaced? cause Pablito actually did not want to be replaced, and wished I hadn't responded to the replacement as fast as I did...oh well....

why a VT would go to that much trouble, I have no idea...

anyways.

I just feel that this is a lost cause. Most of you are too blind to see the real scum. I'm not gonna bother to try to recall everything I read in the last 70 pages, but I know enough that this is going to be a scum win.

so why avoid the inevitable? Lynch me Whether you lynch me or not, you're losing a town either way tonight...you have the choice ot make it two or just one. But please, go right ahead. My vote will not sway, so I only need three more voters.

[saberwolf]

I claim VT

[saberwolf]

I've read it.

Amount I've retained = zilch

[saberwolf]

screw you AT, just lynch me already. Hammer's waiting.

[saberwolf]

@Kise Yup, now lynch me.

[saberwolf]

Kise: please stop defending me. I appreciate it, but just stop.

[saberwolf]

HoS:Kise

It would be a scum move to defend the ultra scummy player, knowing full well that when he flips town, he can say he defended me.

[saberwolf]

Have you not figured it out yet? I refuse to co-operate, and I want myself lynched. How hard is that to understand? There is no positive outcome to keeping me around, so it is best to get rid of me as soon as possible. This is the best move you can do.

My vote will not move.

[saberwolf]

FFS >,<

fine, I lied for the most part. The ones I claimed were scum were my town reads, which were AT and Zero. You and Madcraw were the most suspicious. I was telling the truth about not being able to retain all of the information and being VT, but to be honest, Upon ISOing my guy, it's such a hopeless case that the best thing I can do is sacrifice myself for the cause. I don't normally be a dick in games, it is just an act to get me lynched. Now please, just lynch me, as I personally think its the best move for town.

[saberwolf]

OMG, I can't even get myself lynched?

The whole thing was a charade, trying to antagonize you guys into lynching me, as I felt it was best for town. I said anything I could to piss you off and gain your vote. I really feel that keeping me around is a mistake, because if I made it to final three, you'll lynch me for sure. I feel that I'm too scummy to keep around and that town would function better with my absence and win.

If you guys refuse to lynch me, I have no choice but to remain and start scumhunting then. Give me another day, day and a half and I'll start posting some actual content.

unvote

[saberwolf]

Just to be clear, I don't intentionally go out to be a dick for pure malicious reasons. I was trying to play on your emotions to get me lynched , nothing more. Also, AT you should of recognized this play from me immediately, as the only other game we played together I pulled the slayer's gambit as an experiment. Why did you not mention this to everyone?

FoS: AndyTony

[saberwolf]

@saberwolf- Why have you not responded to a single thing I've said?

initially it was to be a jackass to gain your vote. For now though it's case I need some time. I had two hours of sleep last night plus a marketing midterm on thursday to prepare for, so I'm doing this in snatches, but I will answer your questions, promise.

[saberwolf]

Cool Ald, in that case,

Vote: saberwolf

lol, I think somebody just got scared at the thought he's about to go next, so he's looking for the easy way out

[saberwolf]

to be fair, i'm waiting for a long period of time to begin my daunting task. i am currently finishing midterms and constructing a website for student council. its also 3 am and my roommates invited friends over and are having a giant bongfest, so excuse me if this one isnt my top priority as of right now. it is now the beginning of my reading week, so i can start real soon, mastin style.

[saberwolf]

ok, if it comforts you any, im on page 57, and almost done my notes. i will post soon enough.

[saberwolf]

i am currently working on the uber post for this, but first i have something of interest for me....

Chinaman: claim please, now.

[saberwolf]

Saberwolf's attempt at catching up

Warning: This analysis is done completely oblivious to any inside information memorization. As such, I may do dumb things like claim somebody is scum, only to realise that they are already dead and flipped town. That is such of my lousy memory, but I am doing my best to help and just show how I interpreted it.

Page 1

Nothing to talk about, just people confirming. Hohum's eagerness to start playing may hint at a VIP role that he wants to play out.

Page 2

I don't like The Corporation's post post 48, when he claims hewitt has enough votes on him to not place a vote on him, and votes for zero. He maybe doesn't want a BW going on his scumbuddy while also bussing? [btw, I'm fully aware that he's the player I replaced] Zero may have disguised a OMGUS vote under disguise of RVS.

Page 3

Oddin catches onto the OMGUS and comments on it. A bunch of complaining about RVS is done, and some seemingly loose votes fly around the place. Hohum is shown to be very anxious to keep this game going. AndyTony catches up on that and hints at a possible scum tactic. Oddin starts pre-empting a defence for Zero by claiming that Zero gets pissed off easy and claims scum day 1 sometimes. Andytony talks a bit about policy votes are bad and how actual scumhunting should be done.

Page 4

Hohum and AT seem to go at each other mildly for a bit. MCD starts to question the whole thing of why Zero's scumclaiming was brought to light in this game. I'm starting to see sides built up. Oddin sides with AndyTony and Hohum and AndyTony are against each other. Hohum feels Oddin is not living up to town standards in scumhunting, and then votes him.

[/b]Page 5[/b]

A lot of petty squabbling, but the main thing that catches my eye is AndyTony's case against hohum, and then unvoting him. I don't see why someone would do that. I'm not sure what to think.

5 page thoughts

Ok, so Hohum and Andytony seem the most active so far in this game, a lot of the discussion is on game theory and not on actual scumhunting. In this case I have to

FoS: Andytony

, the reason being that, yes while he did address the situation and bring awareness to what he thought was scumhunting, he was also dragging it out by antagonzing hohum and keeping the theory argument going. I also feel that AndyTony might be coming on as slightly defensive as wellOddin sticks out just for the whole zero thing. Everyone else at this point is neutral.

Possible scum: Zero, Oddin, Hohum, AndyTony
Possible connections: AndyTony&Oddin, Zero&Oddin
Possible anti-connections: AndyTony&Hohum

Page 6

dej seems to side with hohum and go up against AndyTony. AndyTony replies back with those long ass sensical posts of his, but now there seems to be a touch of annoyance in them IMO. I like MCD in this page, cause I feel a genuine townhunting vibe coming from him, questioning both AndyTony, Pitstop and Oddin. However, MCD's attack on AndyTony is the only one that would regularly be dismissed as commenting, as there can be no future consequence to it, therefore I'll have to file that under suspicion of bussing.

Page 7

So we have a player that is admittedly emotional , a player that is admittedly lazy, and a player that doesn't mind making redundant statements that only reflect poorly on himself. lol

Put all three together and you got me

AndyTony seems to be feeling the heat on this page, being questioned about his motives by just about everybody. To be honest, I have to say I haven't seen ANY scumhunting from AndyTony by this point. All he has done is tell others how they should do things his way by scumhunting a certain way, and other minor things like that.

HoS: AndyTony

When AndyTony attacks Ceph about reading the thread, he then later tries to soften the blow by apologizing...why would you be worried about his feelings if you're truly scumhunting, unless you're trying to make sure you have less enemies as scum? By this point I realise this is a lot of mud slinging at AndyTony, but right now he's the only one who sticks out, mainly cause I don't read much from everyone else's one liners.

I'm not liking this AndyTony guy. It's like he thinks he's all knowing. Like Allah or Entertainment Weekly. He's very serious and acts like he is the boss. And if you're going to ask me why, it's your posts. Read them and you'll know.

This sums it up for me.

page 8

I've noticed that Occ has not been scumhunting whatsoever, it's all been filler.

FoS: OccamR

Odd makes an interesting post after AndyTony starts to get angry over people questioning his gameplay. Post 183 is a buddy up tactic followed by an immediate bussing. Ceph's 186 rubs me the wrong way, it looks like scum just jumping on a BW and claiming its got merit. Pitstop is currently the scum in question. I don't like MCD's post 190. Asking how much of an easy lynch everyone else thought AndyTony was sounds like a scum gauge of then knowing how much to bus your partner.

Page 9

The Corporation makes a "newbie" mistake by asking about the setup, even though its an open setup. It's picked upon and discussed, and it is pretty suspicious. Unfortunately, I know I'm town, so I'll have to assume it was a mistake. Later on I read that it was a scumhunting tactic, oh well...I hazed over for the rest of the page, just Ceph bitching about how the attention is all on him now. I personally thought The Corporations first couple of posts on this page were somewhat sound, but then again that's me so my analysis of myself means nothing.

Page 10

The Corporation continues to push his case on ceph, and people are starting to take on the BW. MCD seems intent on clearing any suspicion away from AndyTony by making sure all related questions are answers so that they can be disproven. A little concerned that pitstop started lurking.

Page 11

I really don't like post 254 and 255 by Occ/AndyTony. They're rolefishing, so

FoS: both of them

According to Odd's 264 he points out pitstop has been aggressively been attacking AndyTony, so there might be no connection there. Ceph doesn't think that AndyTony is playing like his usual town self.

Ok, this is gonna take way too long, I'm gonna try to be more general and just post opinions as they come.

post 279 links zero(chinaman) to AndyTony through bussing, in a weird way says pitstop(D3X) is scum.

both kamisa and AndyTony seem to attack zero, so I'm thinking that Chinaman may be clear.

by post 345 the hatred between zero and AndyTony is so obvious that I cannot consider it bussing, they are definitely not scumbuddies.

MCD attacking Andytony over his vote for zero seems to suggest a seperation of both, so at the moment:

If AndyTony is scum, I'd say CM and MCD are clear

If CM is scum, I'd say AT is clear

post 358, zero (CM) self votes and kinda gives up. IMO it's much more likely of a town move than scum, so I can't say I approve of the CM BW as of right now, but then again, I'm nowhere close to catching up...

I am getting the feeling that AT is trying to keep zero around so that there is confusion by the end game. He's got his wish too, he's got either me or CM for today's lynch, he can NK anyone else, then lynch the remaining guy ftw.

I have a protown read from MCD by page 15, so I will not be voting for him unless extreme circumstances change so.

page 16 has me thinking

If CM does flip scum, D3X is the scumbuddy

based on The Replacements posts.

also, Kdub, have seen almost no content from you either. Why?

I think Zer0 is annoyed town. His claim to why he knew dejkha wanted replacement did sund a bit fish.

this post by caught scum may have made me change my mind on CM.

current standings

Just so I don't lose track

Scum: AndyTony, Chinaman,
Town: MCD, Aldusskel
Neutral/leaning town: Kdub
Neutral/leaning scummy: Kise

I do not believe the Cephrir lynch is inevitable; his current case is poorly reasoned. And you seem very sold on the fact that a Zer0 lynch is a mislynch.

Sounds to me like you know we're both mislynches

has me confused on CM's alignment yet again.

page 24 further supports the start of pablito scumminess as well as CM scumminess.

Post 640:

Vote: Zer0ph34r

Since I don't believe in the Ceph case, I going to go with what I think is the best lead so far.

why would scum do that? There's no real gain from scum to do this, so I'm going to assume it was a bussing/i knew he was townie so im safe move. It's the only explanation in my mind.

Page 26: kham attacks CM, AT defends CM, it goes against my scum theories, I conclude I suck >.>

possible conclusion:AT and CM are both town, but for some reason I can't get myself to believe that.

Besides, I wouldn't vote for my partner if he quit. I'd be pissed, but I wouldn't put a vote on my partner.

possible scumslip, makes me go back on CM

Watching Kdub's and AT's preemptive attacks on Khamisa before day 2 started, I lean towards them both ebing town. The fact that she wa scum helps them. I'm currently on page 30

I feel I should stop here and post, just to show I am actually doing something and not just talking a lot of nothing.

Current standings:

Scum

Chinaman, Andytony

Town

Kdub, Aldusskel, MCD

Neutral

Kise, D3X

I just can't shake the feeling of AT being scum or CM. Both show signs of why they could and could not be scum. AT's lynch would provide more information to me, but CM has been scummier.

Kdub and MCD both seem very pro-town, and I already know aldusskel is jailkeeper.

Kise and D3X I am still undetermined

I'll continue typing a new post, from page 31 onwards now

[saberwolf]

Already happened.

I am vanilla town.

Why do you want to know, SW?

Kinda ruined it for me. I was interested to see how CM worded it, based on the claims I read. It was interesting how many times zero claimed, plus how he claimed each time. I wanted to see how CM worded it. Plus, on the very unlikely chance CM claimed doc for some reason, that would have been very helpful. But yeah, that's all it was for.

[saberwolf]

We're gonna get 77 pages of this? Seriously?

Aside from my brain exploding...

Kinda ruined it for me. I was interested to see how CM worded it

But he claimed, thus you can see exactly how he worded it. I'm confused. Ald didn't claim for CM, he just gave you what CM had already said, thus giving you the exact wording.

it was a test for consistancy

[saberwolf]

Did you want CM to claim again and then to compare the two claims?

yes

[saberwolf]

It'll be done soon. I'm temp taking a break, but I'll get er done.

to ald: I am all over the place tbh. I have conflicting views on almost everyone, and the main reason I still place AT as scum even though I semi-cleared him is because I havent reached the part where you all lynch Khamisa, so things may change between 31-79

Remember these are my viewpoints, and I tend to look at the smaller things instead of the plainfully obvious, otherwise there is almost no point in me saying anything. What seems trivial to you is the stuff I like to try and focus on.

[saberwolf]

I don't really understand the italicized part here, saberwolf.

MCD seems intent on clearing any suspicion away from AndyTony by

making sure all related questions are answers so that they can be disproven.

I think I screwed up the typing part of that, but I meant to say is MCD was trying to get answers for all AT questions so that he could discredit them and then sweep away the AT issue

I really don't like post 254 and 255 by Occ/AndyTony. They're rolefishing

I'm sure AndyTony has tried to explain this, but I can't remember the post number or even if it was a good explanation.

doesn't help when later he claims all rolefishing is bad

According to Odd's 264 he points out pitstop has been aggressively been attacking AndyTony, so there might be no connection there.

Hmm, I don't think Pitstop was going after AndyTony that hard. Just look at his posts, he doesn't even FoS AndyTony, let alone vote him. There's no big case or anything.

Really? I'll recheck, but I was sure there was something...

Ceph doesn't think that AndyTony is playing like his usual town self.

I can't find where Cephrir says this. I think what he said was that AT wasn't playing like his scum self.

According to one of the AT posts, I'm sure it was town and not scum

by post 345 the hatred between zero and AndyTony is so obvious that I cannot consider it bussing, they are definitely not scumbuddies.

I don't know, if AndyTony was already angry with Zer0ph34r he could have been just venting in a more Townie sort of way. I don't think AT is scum, but this isn't the reason why.

post 358, zero (CM) self votes and kinda gives up. IMO it's much more likely of a town move than scum

It's my understanding that while Zer0 regularly selfvotes as Town, he's also aware of this meta. So I don't think it's a strong indicator either way. Also, he was aware that people were aware of his meta.

page 16 has me thinking

If CM does flip scum, D3X is the scumbuddy based on The Replacements posts.

I think you mean... post. 386. Anyway, I can see how 386 would get you thinking that the scum team is CM-d3x, but I'm surprised you think it's strong of an indicator.

Also, you say:

Watching Kdub's and AT's preemptive attacks on Khamisa before day 2 started, I lean towards them both ebing town.

then say

ScumChinaman, Andytony

[saberwolf]

ISO 61 I believe, but reading over shows it was mainly reflection in one of ceph's posts, so it no longer has as much credibility as I thought it did when I first read it. However the fact that ceph is a dead townie and AT is a live unconfirmed means I can't tottally disregard it.

[saberwolf]

@SW

- So I reread your post.
=======================
It's a series of paraphrased tunnelling.

You said I was scum by page 7, and included me in

every

scum supposition/list throughout that post of yours (and you're only so far as pg 30 you say) - - good. Because that's where Pablito is introduced, and we can see what you spot there, eh?

Can I point out that you flip flopped like mad in your post between calling CM and myself scum, and then saying we were both town?

You flip flopped on that countless times - and even after we've repeatedly told you the flaws in that logic - and even after you stated your scumhunting sucked in your own post, and even though you finished giving evidence that suggested I was

town

- - You went ahead and stated that you "couldn't let yourself believe Andytony is town"? And then you conclude that?
=====================================================

I hope you didn't expect us to be impressed, SW.

I've seen zero scumhunting, poor logic, and only tunnelling (in the direction of the person you know won't come off your wagon or let you off the hook easily - moi).

Answer all that's been asked of you, please.
=====================================================

Confirm Vote: Pablito/Saberwolf
FoS: Kise

His lurking doesn't help, but is not the primary reason for my suspicions. I'm picking up where I left off with him yesterday and am going to see about a better read on him. I'll hopefully be able to determine if he's indeed scum, or if I'm missing something that's giving me the wrong impression.

I'm also hoping I don't have to look into meta - takes a lot out of me

I didn't do this to impress you AT, I only did it for CM's and ald's sake.

I am not like you guys where I can post endless amounts of actual content, add on top of that I'm trying to compress 70+ pages worth, plus I had originally decided to get myself lynched cause I figured it was impossible to unscum myself from the damage already done by my predecessors. Of course I flip flop, I have no confidence in any decisions I make, and I will continue to flip flop until the very end of my analysis, where I will take all of the one side and compare it to my conflicting views, and see which one appears more frequently.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to bed, as I stayed up all night and don't wish to continue my catch up while fatigued. I will finish and post the final half when I wake up.

[saberwolf]

i dont feel valued enough to consider finishing

vote: saberwolf

in case it isn't still there

[saberwolf]

CM: your point is a good one. Consider a super speedy conclusion coming very soon, as in within the next two hours.

[saberwolf]

oh, and

unvote

so that I have time during those 2 hours.

If you don't like my end result, I'll be happy to hammer myself.

[saberwolf]

another 30 minutes and I should have a finished result.


In the meantime, I'd like AT and CM to tell me what they plan to do if they lynch me and I flip town.

[saberwolf]

ok so here goes:

Posts 893 and 895 do a good job of making AT look scummy.

pages 30-37 show a good wall post battle between AT and MCD, which I think MCD won. AT seems to post a shitload of stuff so that others will just skim through it and assume lots of content = town player. He avoids a lot of questions asked to him, asks players to post cases against him whenever he gets attacked, but when they do he just claims theyre crap and to try again.

Post 931: is Kise looking for an opportunity here?

Post 951: for some reason Kise doesn't think he's going to live long...not sure what to make of it, but it stuck out to me.

Post 1051: Ald reveals that AT is case stealing from Kdub, which looks rather bad IMO. Also AT's "claim" that he was a lynch-kham supporter was based on the fact that he said: "Ceph and kham are both scummy to me, but lets lynch ceph." Classic scum move, mislynching + bussing, see it a lot.

Post 1094, Kham chainsaws Hohum for AT

Page 50: AT tries his hardest to avoid answering any questions, especially the D3X's quotes issue

Post 1352: Kham chainsaws CM for AT

Post 1386: useful info to look at

Post 1400: CM's lists of who's town and who's scummy.

Town players left:
Myself
AT
Kdub
Lobster
Kise
d3x

Possible scum:
Ald
Hohum
Pablito
MadCrawdad

IMO, really bad scumhunter, as everyone on his scum list is either dead, deemed really pro-town, comfirmed power role, or myself, who i know is town.

Since lobster is dead, we have 5 names in which to find 2 scum in the town list.
Because CM made the town list, I think he may be scum.

Post 1587 is a good summary of my thoughts done by ald.

People I think are town, from most to least:

Ald - confirmed VIP
Kdub - For the whole kham thing
D3X - partially for kham, but otherwise feels pro-town

surprisingly enough, I can't put MCD on this list, dispite all the good things I've seen from him. The reason being is I'm aware that I'm pretty biased against AT, and have bound to have tunneled against him. Therefore, I'd hate to see us lose just because I hammered AT just because I really want to see him gone, although I do feel I have enough points against him to justify my vote. Because AT and MCD were major sparring partners, I conclude that they are not scumbuddies, and if AT isnt scum, I feel MCD would fit the bill just fine.

I also dont feel a CM/AT connection, but mainly because of the zero/AT interaction, which almost rivals the MCD/AT one.

There are ties to both AT and CM through Kham

Therefore my scum list from least likely to most consists of:

MCD
KISE
AT
CM


In the end, I see these connections:

CM-Kise, due to list
CM-/-AT. If CM is scum , I'd say AT is cleared
MCD-/-AT like above
CM-MCD, for having similar agendas, mainly attacking AT
KISE-AT: due to Oddin's thought of you two being scum and was later NKed
anyone else I have no real reason to link you to anyone.

overall, I think CM might be a better lynch, BUT I am also aware that several people have tried to lynch AT before and failed, and they all for the most part ended up dead. Also, the fact that AT was targetted night one and there was no NK night one has a feeling of scum connection.

I much prefer a AT lynch. However I must look at it this way:

CM flips scum, it'd clear AT to me and I'd look at Kise or MCD next, maybe even D3X
CM flips town, I go for AT

AT flips town, I have CM and MCD as suspects, and I cant claim Kise or D3X as completely clear
AT flips scum, it clears MCD and CM

looking at risk/reward, i think its necessary for me to go

vote: chinaman

[saberwolf]

AT: if you have questions that I have not yet answered, please post them again...I swear to god my eyeballs are bleeding and I rather not go reading through to find them after 50 pages of continuous reading.

this also applies to anyone else, i just know AT's online is all.

[saberwolf]

1. you wanted it done before the deadline, otherwise had i stuck with a pure mastin-like post like I was considering, it wouldn't have made it in time.

2. getting it done fast meant skimming a lot. I read through the whole thing, but i glanced past the bigger walls of text.

3. I never said I'd do a good job [not that anything I could do would be good in your eyes] I just simply did something to show you my thoughts, because CM was right, I should at least give you guys my final thoughts as a townie before I go.

4. I still think you're scum and you use straight up denial tactics to push your way through

if you're as pro-town as you claim to be, why haven't you been NKed yet? Surely scum would have tried a second time...

893 was Kham defending you from Kdub, a slight note of bussing could be there.

i think 895 was the wrong post though for the other one.

Kises post could be an open scumbuddy questioning, trying to get a read on whcih way to set up the mislynch.

You like to throw words around a lot, if you bothered to tone it down in your posts and read what I say and not what I accuse, you wouldn't look so foolish

Why aren't you scum AT? I think you're feeling the pressure...it sucks, being this close to a scum victory, and yet here is yet another person who opposes you, but don't worry, you'll do your best to get them out of your way too...and then just one more to go if youre lucky....watch out AT, victory may be further than you think...don't start looking foolish now....

[saberwolf]

CM: you were suspected after defending Kham near the end. Your predecessor was a bit scummy before you showed up. You don't come across as town as some of the others, such as ald and MCD

Kise hasn't posted enough content for me to fully analyze, or at least it seems that way. AT and MCD hog most of the page, so I tend to flutter through them more. Kise is good at keeping his posts neutral enough for when they need to be, but its when you get him posting about sides and small general comments that you can get a certain vibe or notice wordings. Kise also lately seems to be lurking, as if he knows whats going down is a mislynch and doesnt want to impede.

I think AT could bus as weak or as strong as he wanted. He wasn't as early as Kdub and D3X on the Kham lynch [who were on it from day 1] so I can't give him as much credit. It seems nobody can throw this guy down, and he just simply deflects anything you gotta say, so somehow that makes him pro-town. Because of this, the other players either dismiss him, or take his word for it as they can't seem to do otherwise. The only real exceptions would be ald and MCD. However, thats only two people, and not enough to matter. Also, because Kham's scent was caught day 1, AT could have realised that it might be good to sever ties, and you know AT, he's all about delivering the concrete evidence in a case, so he pulls the meta for his case.

The main reason I'm supporting your lynch is more so for information safety. If I wanted to take the risk, I'd vote for AT, and while it would clear more people if he turned up scum, it'd leave a lot more unclears if he flipped town. You on the other hand would clear less people if you flipped scum, but leave less loose ends if you flip town. Taking safety over risk, I go with your lynch.

[saberwolf]

I tried to get myself out of this cause I was lazy/felt this was impossible to get out of.

Once I failed in lynching myself, I decided to at least contribute, and I was actually starting to have fun poking at you guys, so I stuck around.

Now I actually feel somewhat compelled to give my side of things, dispite how incompetent and incomplete AT may say. CM, as a replacement you know how bad it is to sift through 30 pages. Fuck, i did over double that, and it was no picnic, especially with all the walls of post and such.

[saberwolf]

Thank you for your responses. You missed some questions in there, so if you could get back to them I'd appreciate it. Also, I think you are mistaken on d3x being on Kham. By the time I came in or close to it, he was on AT and didn't go back to Kham before her lynch. If I remember correctly, d3x was on AT, I pulled a gambit, and he left and went to me and that's where he ended the day.

Actually, I just looked an he was on Kham under his predecessor's vote when he came in. He personally never voted for Kham.

yes I'm aware of this, its because of The Replacement that I associate D3X as townish

if you don't mind pointing out the questions I missed please. Like I said I've done a lot of reading, it is now noon, and I still haven't gone to bed, and I am hurting from exhaustion. I'm not exactly the most acute person right now.

[saberwolf]

zero is also mainly the reason I perceive you as scum

[saberwolf]

AT: if my case is so poor and you are so confident that you aren't going to be lynched, why do you continue to post post after post trying to decredit me as much as possible?
If you're town you'd have said it once and left it at that. Making sure you're not in the same game as me will be awesome, it means you have restrictions and i dont, cause if we join the same game, you'll be the one who quits and i won't have to deal with you

[saberwolf]

MCD, because there were two power town going up against each other [you and AT] I would not be surprised if you turned out scum trying to knock down the only good player offering actual stuff, as you two have been fighting constantly.

I would prob not vote for you at all MCD, but just letting you know that possibility lingers at the back of my mind.

Btw, if I was scum, I'd make a much more interesting case on the easy lynch, being CM, then go heads up against AT, whom 3 people at least have tried and failed.

I'll put my money where my mouth is though, if thats what you wish:

unvote; vote: AT

[saberwolf]

just get me to L-1, ill hammer myself

[saberwolf]

sorry, the "then" should have been a "than"

hope that clears it up

and no, my vote was on CM before.

[saberwolf]

so?

[saberwolf]

so?

[saberwolf]

1. just to give you an idea of how i do play as scum when im scum.

2. I love gambits But also because I knew I was gonna be todays lynch, so at first I didn't give a shit what happened as long as I got some fun out of it, but then I decided to be less of a dick and contribute something, then you made me decide to be a dick again

3. Nope, but I somewhat tried.

[saberwolf]

if you actually bothered to read the posts AT, you'd realise Kise has already answered a question or two in his posts

[saberwolf]

if you actually bothered to read the posts AT, you'd realise Kise has already answered a question or two in his posts

Um... Why'd you post this, saber?

1. its true

2. I didnt want to give up a chance to mock AT using his own way of belittling people

[saberwolf]

I think he's 75% likely to be scum.

only scenario I think he isn't is a CM-MCD, which I think is unlikely

I think it doesnt matter either way. Voting Kise and flipping scum would lead to me getting lynched and flipping town, and lynching me and flipping town would lead to lynching kise. If he turned out to be scum you would then lynch CM, as that would def clear AT, kdub and ald are already clear IMO, and MCD and D3X are to be determined by you guys,although if CM is town, I'd suspect D3X over MCD.

You guys must realise you already planned out your entire endgame, why bother charading about it.

[saberwolf]

well then my AT vote is pointless, and I have no problem voting for kise as it doesn't matter what I do anyways.

unvote; vote: kise

If you do flip scum kise, Imma laugh really hard, cause you were coasting just waiting for CM or me to get lynched, and instead you got the boot.

If you are town though, well then the game is won for scum, cause I'll go next ftl.

[saberwolf]

Trying to collect my thoughts into a post for later. Until then I'm happy to be alive. Gambits FTW

[saberwolf]

Actually, after thinking about my plan more, we don't even need to assume AT is town. OK, here's the plan:

Ald is the JK, China and saber have claimed vanilla. I am vanilla. That means either AT or MC is the doctor. Whoever it is, they should claim now. That person will be confirmed as the doc. Obviously if there is a counterclaim, we lynch one of them today and the other tomorrow and the town wins.

- I will volunteer to be lynched today.
- Ald blocks Chinaman, AT/MC protects Ald at night.
- If someone is killed, then obviously AT/MC (whoever is not the doc) is the scum and we lynch him tomorrow.
- If China is scum, or if the scum decides to not kill, then we are left with 5 players with 1 scum between AT/MC (whoever is not the doc) and China. Lynch one tomorrow and the other on D7. Town wins.

Sound good?

Unvote
Vote: Kdub

this logic isnt all there.

1. It only works if you control the variables. The way you have it phrased you don't have all bases covered. Here's how it should be done:

Vote AT or MCD. Let's say AT for this hypothetical situation
Ald JK's CM while doc protects ald. If AT was the doc, then he claims before we can lynch him and then lynch MCD. Otherwise, if we lynch AT and he's townie, that works out for us. IF he's scum that's even better. Assuming AT is not scum or doc and we lynch him. Then we wait to see the night's results. If there is a death [being me]. Doc claims and we win, because Kdub and CM already claimed VT, and cannot claim doc. From there we can lynch Kdub as he would then be scum. If the death was doc instead of me, the results would still be the same. We know that CM couldnt have killed the doc so it was Kdub.

IF there is no NK, we have doctor claim, and we have 3 cleared town. We lynch one of the other two unconfirmed, JK the other, and then lynch him the next day for a town win.

OR to make this ridiculously easy, we can just all massclaim now.

SW - VT
CM - VT
Kdub - VT
Ald - JK
AT - ?
MCD - ?

AT or MCD claims doc, we then lynch CM. Ald then chooses one of the two unconfirms left to JK. If he picks the wrong one and there's a NK, we simply lynch the only remaining one. IF he is successful, we lynch one of the two. If we lynch wrong, ald simply JKs the remaining one who then can't NK, and we lynch him the next day ftw.

Real doc do not allow a fake claim to go by if one occurs, although I don't think scum will fake claim doc, cause lynching real doc and a NK will still leave us able to lynch scum ftw.

So yeah, AT and MCD, roleclaim please
If

[saberwolf]

@ Saber


Your plan is genuinely stupid because you are once again only concerned with having me lynched.

REASON:
You believe Chinaman's claim? Or are you assuming he is VT?

the was there to make it a joke. I'm not too concerned who we lynch between you or MCD, but it has to be one of you.

CM already claimed VT, so he can't claim Doc. The whole point is keeping the ones who claim VT. Once we have a massclaim, we have three confirms, and we simply sift throught the VTs. We don't even have to lynch you AT. If you are doc, just claim. If not, then there is a 50% chance we lynch you, cause it's either you or Kdub.

[saberwolf]

I think you guys (China and saber) are making my plan out to be more complicated than it has to be. Can you describe a scenario in which my plan, as I outlined above, will not work?

I know that there are variations on the plan (who gets lynched today, who gets blocked, etc.), but the idea is the same and I laid out one scenario to keep things simple. The important thing is that Al knows who to block tonight.

AT:
If the scum kill someone tonight, then we know who the scum is because China will have been blocked by Al, so it can only be you/MC, and one of you will be the confirmed doc. The other must be scum.

The problem is scum WON'T NK. they will no lynch so that there is four left and you have to flip a coin to figure out who to kill, and we want 100% certainty, not 50%.

My plan actually works. AT just isn't happy that I suggest he be the sacrifice and not you

[saberwolf]

China is not CONFIRMED.

It isn't unheard of in this game for people to claim things to be safe.

And regardless - I'm telling you that an outted doc helps scum more than it helps town.

I'm not claiming him to be CONFIRMED. He is a CLAIMED TOWNIE, as well as THE SCUMMIEST OF THE THREE OF YOU, regardless of which of you claims doc. CM < Kdub, AT || CM < Kdub, MCD

We want to CONTROL THE CLAIMED VT's. Because we know scum is one of them. By lynching CM or Kdub and no roleclaims, you are allowing uncertainty, cause say you are doc AT, when you claim doc at lylo, MCD can be scum and CC, and you'd be screwed, cause I honestly think they would vote for you over him.

By getting doc confirmed, we lynch a claimed VT. We JK the scummiest of the VTs and go from there to victory. Show me ANYWHERE, give me ANY SCENARIO, where my plan does not work.

[saberwolf]

How do you know 100% they will not NK, saber?

because they would be stupid if they did.

If I was scum, Nking so that its you the JK and a doc left or you a JK and a cleared left is suicide. Only way to win using Kdubs plan is to not NK so that its a coin flip between you and doc and you both claim doc.

[saberwolf]

What I'm saying is that if scum maintains a no NK, it simply draws out the time before a lylo (which can happen)
=======

If you just help me see where it can't go wrong, I'd understand it better

not with my plan. With my plan we have no uncertainty. The only way scum can win at this point is by CC doc. If we have doc claim now, that chance of winning is gone, and we pick our way through the VTs.

Say AT claims doc. We lynch Kdub today then [just to please AT], and wait for night to end. Ald would JK CM and AT would protect ald. Either AT or I would die, or else no NK would occur, either by scum trying to gamble or CM being the scum. Either way we know not to target CM. We lynch MCD next, and if someone had died the night before he would be scum and we win, or if someone didnt die he'd either turn up scum or VT. If he turns up VT, we KNOW CM is scum, and Ald JKs him for one last night, and then we lynch him for a AT/ald/SW win for town.

[saberwolf]

I think AT is a bit bothered, because for once we have logic he can't fight back against with pure ignorance

[saberwolf]

I really hope he is. My gut's been saying it this whole time and I've really been gunning for him real hard too

[saberwolf]

if you don't mind, I'd like to be the hammer, so I'll hold off on my vote

[saberwolf]

vote:AndyTony

For the hammer

[saberwolf]

so are you scum?

[saberwolf]

well I can't say I'm completely sad.

I really wanted to see you go over me just to show that people who can't do postage diarrhea can make it in this game too

[saberwolf]

Hey give me some credit. I had a hard time catching up on 70+ pages so I figured pulling a gambit was much easier. It's much easier for you cause you've been around the whole game.

Poor player huh? Check my most recently updated sig. A lot of those new wins were due to me.

[saberwolf]

Ha! Gut didn't fail me after all! I totally knew it was you, and I'm glad as the person who was the biggest pusher for your lynch, that I was right

[saberwolf]

to clear things up as well: I was totally gambiting the whole time. I had no intention of killing myself, and I deliberately dumbed down my playing in this game. If you looked at my first posts however, I claimed that I thought Kise and AndyTony were scum. Eventually I decided the gambit would have to change, so I started contributing, then pulled back to the gambit when necessary. I do have a hard time retaining 70+ pages as a replacement, but I knew in my head what was going down and found myself to be a better contributor in the logic department.

GG guys.

[saberwolf]

@AndyTony: Was I right about you when I kept going on and on about you lying and then ignoring me in the hopes that it would just blow over?

That was one of the major reasons I always suspected AT. I kept feeling he just tried to bowl over everybody and claim that everything they said was nonsense. He especially did it with me, but I would of thought the twon-AT would have mentioned it once then ignored me. HE seemed overly eager to hit me often as he could, and spent more time criticizing my scumhunting than providing anything himself. Is there anything to this either AT?