Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!

[Alduskkel]

I think AndyTony is being pretty naive if he thinks the case on CM is only hypothetical. I'd go so far as to call it reverse-tunneling.

[Chinaman]

I think YOUR pretty naive to think you AREN'T tunneling me. Seriously, no matter what, you are out to get me. It's ridiculous.

[Alduskkel]

I'm tunneling? You're the one who hasn't even responded to 1929 and 1930.

[Chinaman]

Ok. well I'll read more later.

unvote: Zer0ph34r

eeeeeeeeeeehhh...until I read somethin. vote: cephrir just because it's the highest wagon.

First 2 posts from Pablito. First off, he didn't even read through his predicessor's posts before making sure he was on the "highest wagon". Second, he casts his vote even though he hadn't read anything yet? Why would you do that as town? It makes more scum-sense than town-sense. Those thinking Pablito town, explain where this is town.

Damn, I thought I was throwing away my vote.

Straight...up...lie. He even has in his post what makes this post a lie!

I lost the final part of my re-read, but basically I don't like how KDub or Khamisa are playing. Both are not going beyond the surface in their analyses. So something like FOS: Kdub, Khamisa

Not too much time later, it looks like he wants to start separating himself from anything definite or incriminating with

It sucks that I couldn't see cephrir's play unfold in real time, because honestly I forget what made him look scummy in my eyes now. As for khamisa, in the previous reads, I didn't pick up anything from khamisa, it's only been what others have pointed out for me.

The only behaviour that really stuck out for me before was kdub's. However, with khamisa, I can be arsed to actually look at some of the posts to see if I feel the same as others do. But right now, whatever.

NOTE: from here on out, it will just be quote tags, but they are all Pablito's.

I was a bit surprised that there were two quick votes for Khamisa. If there are votes to provoke a lurker, out of the gate in D2 is not the best time.

I'm liking this madcrawdad case on andytony.

He doesn't like the 2 quick votes on his scumbuddy. Interesting. What's also interesting is earlier, he wrote this

On the discussion of hohum and pressuring/annoying scum to make tells. I like the idea.

So does he like pressuring/annoying or does he not?

I can agree with KDub that Khamisa forgot about the doctor. Also I agree that mafia no-kill was stupid.

I think it highly possible that they chose to no vote IN ORDER to call it stupid of scum. It helps to separate him from scum...except I think he IS scum so I think it's an act.
Just caught something else. Earlier he writes

All the while when we got out of "random vote stage", it appeared that KDub stuck mainly with theory posts, rather than moving into pointing anyone out. FOS: KDub It's all "contributory without moving things along". Maybe the noted suspicions come later, but KDub is very hands-off without looking like it.

against Kdub, then he comes out with

Khamisa really left a lot to desire with that response. But I think that the VLA can excuse that.

At the end of this read, I realise that wow, I really didn't contribute much.

In terms of all the definitions of OMGUS, it really doesn't matter what you call it, but I believe that subconsciously at some level, when one person feels on the defense, it's only natural to be suspicious of the other person. But there's also a quality of AT's OMGUSity that's strange. What I remember is that AT felt disappointment over MCD's case on AT. That's what brought it all on. I'll have to think a little more on what it would all mean to me especially in terms of scumminess.

which is exactly what he admonished Kdub on....being very hands off without looking like it.

I don't get why there's a sudden vociferous argument against active lurkers at this very moment when we're actually going quicker than ever right now. Sure I'm lurking, but with this much information out there and with good questioning going on, I don't give a feck about lurkers. Unless perhaps, this is a good scum tactic to take the easy way out. I'm talking a lot about those who are attacking khamisa - who I don't think is not scummy - but right now I don't think is a good place to put focus on.

More hands-off and not moving the game along but wanting to post as to try and not lurk.

eh. vote: AndyTony

'hey, look at me, I'm voting but I'm not behind it so I can back out if a wagon doesn't take off on him!' At least that's what I got out of it.

@ pablito & hohum:
Do you not believe that there is at least one scum among the several lurkers in the game? I think there almost has to be. And if so, how do we pick the scum out when there is nothing to go by when analyzing them? Even if we successfully catch the scum among the active players, we're going to be in trouble on D3 or D4 when we have gotten no information on over half the remaining players.

No I don't KDub, at least not yet, I think it's far too soon to assume anything about the whole composition of scum team. Yes, it's a likely possibility, but I think you're way too steadfast in assuming that lurking is going to hurt this town in the future. We need to get information and that is by lynching scum.

So many things here. One 'hey guys, stop looking at lurkers, my scumbuddy is there'. Two, you can only gain info by lynching scum? wrong! you can also gain info from a mislynch. Looks like a plea to keep up scumhunting on active players and avoid lynching kham. note, he's smart here cuz he also likes to say that he's not saying kham isn't scum so that he can bus her if she doesn't come back with anything good to dig herself out and doesn't get replaced.
Also, in this post he writes (in reference to possible scum in the lurkers)

Yes, it's a likely possibility

and later in the same post

I am far from convinced that scum is necessarily lurking at this very moment

How can you say something is a likely possibility and then say you are far from convinced about it? If it's a likely possibility, then why would you 'bet' against the odds? It just adds to him trying take eyes off of kham because at this point, I do not believe meta has been brought up.

In ISO 24, pablito tries to pull people away from looking into his scumbuddy kham by going back to D1 concerns on Oddin (known town). I will avoid quoting unless necessary in order to conserve some space from now on.

By ISO 26, he is all over the place. He makes a decent (quantity wise) post on Oddin in ISO24, almost yells at AT for saying it was decent in ISO 25 and then votes Oddin...no wait, doesn't touch Oddin again but instead votes for good ole Kdub...again in ISO 26. He seriously by this point is trying to avoid being associated with any of his actions. He's playing the 'I don't really care' game so that he can go back and say he wasn't really behind anything he did. Seriously Ald, you have a town read on this guy? Show me where I'm crazy for thinking anything of these things are scummy.

ISO 27 made me laugh. Paraphrased to make my point: "I'm voting you cuz you voted Kham and I don't like it. I don't like hohum (cuz I know he's town too) but at least he attacked AT which is productive to my goals. " I look at it like this because I have had a town read on AT. I questioned him not too long ago, and found his answer logical. So I still have a read on AT. With that in mind, this ISO stuck out. (Sorry that I didn't fight with logic and try and build a case on it so you could hammer me with it Ald.)

ISO 28....Really? this is a townie post knowing now that Kham flipped scum? And how is it a waste of time if she flips scum? This post is not coming from a townie, it's coming from scum. Read his ISO 28 and tell me it's coming from a townie.
Gotta go for now. Will continue on tomorrow when I get some time.

[Chinaman]

I'm tunneling? You're the one who hasn't even responded to 1929 and 1930.

First off, yes, you are tunneling. Secondly, where is there a question in 1929 or 1930 that you would like me to respond to? Seriously Ald, you want me to respond to everything you say about me even though I know you're tunneling so badly you will only try and turn everything I say into something scummy? Do you think I'm dumb? Continuing to argue with you is like talking to a brick wall. I'd swear if you weren't a confirmed townie, you were scum. I'm done trying to argue with you. The good news is, you're not the only town in this game yet. We aren't in LYLO so I don't have to convince only you. I have said my peace on the questions directed at me and you chose not to believe them and tell me why in 1929 and 1930. That's the end for me. There is plenty of questions in my last post for YOU to answer though. Most of them are to tell me where the things I pointed out are more likely coming from a townie than scum. They aren't just for you though as like I said, you're not the only townie in the game. It is my case on Pablito/SW. I will get to SW eventually, but I think we can all agree that he has been equally scummy.

[AndyTony]

@Ald

- Don't risk blowing my opinion out of context. I don't think it's hypothetical, I'm saying it's theoretical (genuine LOGIC that I'm NOT disputing, but being applied in hind sight and backward)

It's just one man's opinion, I'm not saying the case is shit.

I just have a better feeling the Kise/SW are scum.

[Kdub]

It's getting close to the deadline and saber had claimed he would post the rest of his analysis today and hasn't. He also didn't answer my question about why he didn't start out by playing this way in the first place. I feel like he could be stalling, and I'm kinda liking Chinaman's last post with evidence against pablito. That doesn't clear Chinaman IMO, but I'm thinking saber is a better lynch at the moment.

Vote: saberwolf

Saber, it's up to you to convince me otherwise with the rest of your analysis.

[saberwolf]

i dont feel valued enough to consider finishing

vote: saberwolf

in case it isn't still there

[Chinaman]

/sigh.

It's not that I don't think you're scum SW, I do, but self sacrifice if you are town without helping town is worthless. The thing about a self vote is I can't see an instance where a scum would lynch themselves.

If you ARE town, you could at least tell us who your top suspects are and why. If town loses, you still lose (if you are town). Again, I really can't see why you would vote yourself if you were scum, especially to the point where you would be lynched. I may be just stupid for believing this crap from you again, but I just don't see it as a scum move to commit suicide. You haven't committed suicide yet of course, but if it came down to it and someone hammered you and you flipped scum, who would want to play with you? Especially be a scummate of yours in future games? I've seen town commit suicide (recently in fact) but could not see why scum would do it. You had a chance to hammer yourself earlier (in which I got flack for putting you in that position) and instead you decide to participate. I start making my case on Pablito/you and people start giving you flack for disappearing and here we are again. If your attempting to confuse everyone, you are doing a masterful job. I'm not moving my vote this time though. I did that once and look where it landed me. What is it you are trying to do here? If you are town, why don't you feel like helping town win before you die (if you do die)? I can get that you think if it came down to a LYLO situation, you feel you being alive would make for a certain town loss, but I'm pretty much in the same boat and I'm sure as hell not going to just give up. My case is on Pablito and you as my top suspect, but I was wrong about Hohum for pulling this sort of crap too. Please answer this so I can either continue my case or look for someone else and help town win. Cuz if you are town, then either of our deaths don't help.

Another thing, either way you are aligned, you aren't playing to win. The whole LYLO situation with you alive, should it ever come to that, isn't a good enough reason to commit suicide without trying to help town. I will promise you this, if you get lynched today and don't attempt to help in a town victory AND flip town, I will try my hardest to get the saberwolf account banned from playing on this site. You aren't playing to win at this point since you aren't building cases on anyone and you are just giving up. Yeah, you could go and create another account, but it's the damned principle of the matter. If you were a participating town, and you had to play with someone who did what you are doing and flipped town after a lynch, how the hell would you feel about that person?

That being said, I still think you are at best mind-game-playing scum and until you flip, it's what I think. So you can either help or get banned if you are town or you can "look" like you are helping and flip scum and I'm happy. Choice is yours.

[Alduskkel]

Look Chinaman, I'm not saying SW is Town. I think he's scum. I think you're more likely to be scum though. I've explained why. If you expect me to respond to all that and make the case that SW is pro-Town then you are sorely mistaken.

I do think the case is being greatly exaggerated though. I could go over why, but ultimately we agree that SW is scum. I don't care to exchange pointless walls of text that will end with us both having the exact same opinions as when we started.

And Chinaman, calm the hell down. It's a game. Stop calling for SW's ban if he's Town. God. JUST CHILL.

[Kdub]

saberwolf:
Sorry, not buying it this time. I didn't vote you before since I wanted to give you a chance to contribute. You said you would scumhunt and contribute, but you stalled multiple times with the deadline looming, now you're back to self-voting. I think you either had nothing further to contribute in the first place and tried to stall until the deadline arrived, or you didn't think it would be enough to save yourself and you are trying the "I give up, lynch me" gambit again in desperation.

[saberwolf]

CM: your point is a good one. Consider a super speedy conclusion coming very soon, as in within the next two hours.

[saberwolf]

oh, and

unvote

so that I have time during those 2 hours.

If you don't like my end result, I'll be happy to hammer myself.

[saberwolf]

another 30 minutes and I should have a finished result.


In the meantime, I'd like AT and CM to tell me what they plan to do if they lynch me and I flip town.

[AndyTony]

If you flip town I'm focusing most of my energy on Kise and will perform another informative re-read on realtionships between players in the game based on the lynch.

But at this point? I find it hard to see you as town. I'm really disappointed in your gameplay because you've really left us with little to do about you - - your play is too risky and suspicious to leave alone and not give any attention to - it's too inconsistent to pass off as nothing, and had you spent half the energy you spent whining and wasting time, you could have communicated with us better (our questions) and read the entire thread to be more informed.

You can't just choose to be ill informed and anti-town and think we're going to respond in a positive way to it.
===========================
@Kise
I hope whatever has you this conveniently "busy" clears up by tomorrow. There are things to talk about.

@MCD
It was (once again) great seeing you put a vote down to follow through on the talk - - however (especially after the energy I saw come out of you top of D2) I notice a change in your play and I was wondering what the cause of it could be. Can you help me understand it? It seems you've audited the possibilities out loud this day, and don't have a vote down or any real form of responsibility for "actions" (or lack there of).

If I'm inferring the wrong thing, let me know - but your play feels "distant" - less pointed, direct, motivated. It feels as though you step back, watch things stew, and then step in to either spark a new train of thought, resurrect an old/lost one between two people to get them going at each other.

- Bottome line, aside from SW, my main scum target is Kise, full throttle Kise. I do

not

think you're scum and don't have any real evidence - I just have a discomfort in the gameplay shift you've had and hoped you could shed light on it (I need to be safe than sorry and ask around - think of it as me clearing air/eliminating useless thoughts about potentially town players) - - help me out?

[saberwolf]

ok so here goes:

Posts 893 and 895 do a good job of making AT look scummy.

pages 30-37 show a good wall post battle between AT and MCD, which I think MCD won. AT seems to post a shitload of stuff so that others will just skim through it and assume lots of content = town player. He avoids a lot of questions asked to him, asks players to post cases against him whenever he gets attacked, but when they do he just claims theyre crap and to try again.

Post 931: is Kise looking for an opportunity here?

Post 951: for some reason Kise doesn't think he's going to live long...not sure what to make of it, but it stuck out to me.

Post 1051: Ald reveals that AT is case stealing from Kdub, which looks rather bad IMO. Also AT's "claim" that he was a lynch-kham supporter was based on the fact that he said: "Ceph and kham are both scummy to me, but lets lynch ceph." Classic scum move, mislynching + bussing, see it a lot.

Post 1094, Kham chainsaws Hohum for AT

Page 50: AT tries his hardest to avoid answering any questions, especially the D3X's quotes issue

Post 1352: Kham chainsaws CM for AT

Post 1386: useful info to look at

Post 1400: CM's lists of who's town and who's scummy.

Town players left:
Myself
AT
Kdub
Lobster
Kise
d3x

Possible scum:
Ald
Hohum
Pablito
MadCrawdad

IMO, really bad scumhunter, as everyone on his scum list is either dead, deemed really pro-town, comfirmed power role, or myself, who i know is town.

Since lobster is dead, we have 5 names in which to find 2 scum in the town list.
Because CM made the town list, I think he may be scum.

Post 1587 is a good summary of my thoughts done by ald.

People I think are town, from most to least:

Ald - confirmed VIP
Kdub - For the whole kham thing
D3X - partially for kham, but otherwise feels pro-town

surprisingly enough, I can't put MCD on this list, dispite all the good things I've seen from him. The reason being is I'm aware that I'm pretty biased against AT, and have bound to have tunneled against him. Therefore, I'd hate to see us lose just because I hammered AT just because I really want to see him gone, although I do feel I have enough points against him to justify my vote. Because AT and MCD were major sparring partners, I conclude that they are not scumbuddies, and if AT isnt scum, I feel MCD would fit the bill just fine.

I also dont feel a CM/AT connection, but mainly because of the zero/AT interaction, which almost rivals the MCD/AT one.

There are ties to both AT and CM through Kham

Therefore my scum list from least likely to most consists of:

MCD
KISE
AT
CM


In the end, I see these connections:

CM-Kise, due to list
CM-/-AT. If CM is scum , I'd say AT is cleared
MCD-/-AT like above
CM-MCD, for having similar agendas, mainly attacking AT
KISE-AT: due to Oddin's thought of you two being scum and was later NKed
anyone else I have no real reason to link you to anyone.

overall, I think CM might be a better lynch, BUT I am also aware that several people have tried to lynch AT before and failed, and they all for the most part ended up dead. Also, the fact that AT was targetted night one and there was no NK night one has a feeling of scum connection.

I much prefer a AT lynch. However I must look at it this way:

CM flips scum, it'd clear AT to me and I'd look at Kise or MCD next, maybe even D3X
CM flips town, I go for AT

AT flips town, I have CM and MCD as suspects, and I cant claim Kise or D3X as completely clear
AT flips scum, it clears MCD and CM

looking at risk/reward, i think its necessary for me to go

vote: chinaman

[saberwolf]

AT: if you have questions that I have not yet answered, please post them again...I swear to god my eyeballs are bleeding and I rather not go reading through to find them after 50 pages of continuous reading.

this also applies to anyone else, i just know AT's online is all.

[AndyTony]

ok so here goes:

Posts 893 and 895 do a good job of making AT look scummy.

Post 893

I'm here

No kill means jailkeeper was successful or mafia didn't kill. Not going to delve into the folds of OMGUS there.

I think Kdub's case on AndyTony is a bit weak.

Whoever mentioned that we look for relationships with Cephrir: IMO, that seems pointless: he's town, so what would any relationships mean?

Zer0: I promise I was honestly V/LA, lying about it just goes against the boundaries of fairness. Speaking of which

Sorry again, but I will be V/LA M-F this upcoming week. But that's it for big chunks of V/LA!

Post 895

Was written by MCD where he does not conclude that I'm scum, and puts and FoS on another player.
=======
Can you explain your statement how those two posts make me scum? Can you elaborate, or should we (as most of your posting begs) take your word for it?
===============================================

Post 931: is Kise looking for an opportunity here?

Post 931

@AT - If Al or MCD were to flip town right now, would that change your opinion on the other player's alignment or do you still think they are scummy regardless?

Now, I don't feel Kise is town, saber, I think he's scum - but can you please illustrate for me how in this post you've referenced, he is being opportunistic?

Be rest assured that I will remind you of the context in which it was said, so don't play off of misinterpretation.

(My point is that you seem to be talking out of your hat)
===============================================

Post 951: for some reason Kise doesn't think he's going to live long...not sure what to make of it, but it stuck out to me.

Actually it stuck out to multiple players including myself.

Had you actually done as you said you would, and continued reading, you would have known that.

So no, it doesn't seem to stick out, does it? Seems like you

agree

.
===============================================

Post 1051: Ald reveals that AT is case stealing from Kdub, which looks rather bad IMO. Also AT's "claim" that he was a lynch-kham supporter was based on the fact that he said: "Ceph and kham are both scummy to me, but lets lynch ceph." Classic scum move, mislynching + bussing, see it a lot.

Post 1052

You'll find if you kept reading that it would have been

illogical

for me to steal any case - - I did no such thing. The post in which Ald thought I did so was

right after kdub's post

- - why would I steal something in plain sight

right after a post

?

Once again - if you did as you said you would (

read

) you would have seen the full scope on the matter and have been better informed instead of looking foolish. Like now.

This is further proof that you are tunnelling me. This is further evidence that proves

your

statement about how bad you are at scumhunting.

To clarify - you've targetted me in your read since page 7 (which you still haven't supported with evidence) and you've now raised a scum issue with me based (wrongfully) on "case stealing"/"following" - - - if you

actually

cared about that issue, why didn't you raise an eyebrow at any other players who have done so in this game?

Ald even did it - and he's confirmed town, so you can't even argue it's scummy.

I did no such thing.

===============================================

Page 50: AT tries his hardest to avoid answering any questions, especially the D3X's quotes issue

Read the game - If I've ever missed anything, it's been accidental/careless - I have constantly tried to be thorough and up front the entire game - had you read the entire game, you would see that it's been mentioned multiple times - - - why would I do so, then shoot myself in the foot?
===============================================

Post 1587 is a good summary of my thoughts done by ald.

People I think are town, from most to least:

Ald - confirmed VIP
Kdub - For the whole kham thing
D3X - partially for kham, but otherwise feels pro-town

Okey Dokey.

so here, you start off with stealin-- I mean, agreeing with Ald for his post in 1587 (Ald's case on me. - - you know SW, had you read on, there's a

response

to that)

Then you town list.
Ald (duh).

Kdub (the "Kham thing".....didn't someone else work on that case? Head up the meta? suspect earlier than others? Shit, who was that....)

D3X (a

little

bit for the "Kham thing". Surely someone ELSE had at LEAST a "little bit" to do with the Kham thing, if not A HELL OF A LOT - who could that be? Bah well, d3x is town based on GUT for you, eh? lol)
===============================================

The reason being is

I'm aware that I'm pretty

biased against AT

, and have bound to have

tunneled against him

. Therefore,

I'd hate to see us lose just because I hammered AT

just because

I really want to see him gone

, although I do feel

I have enough points against him to justify my vote

. Because AT and MCD were major sparring partners, I conclude that they are not scumbuddies, and if AT isnt scum, I feel MCD would fit the bill just fine.

I also dont feel a CM/AT connection, but mainly because of the zero/AT interaction, which almost rivals the MCD/AT one.

There are

ties to both AT and CM through Kham

You've done it.

You've ACTUALLY made me believe in magic, because there is no way this isn't a trick. There's no way someone like you exists lol

You joined this game willingly, and immediately played a gambit to psych us out -- you threatened our town and twice now have tried to kill yourself -- you expect us to believe you care about the town? And would hate to see it burn because of your dumb tunnelling against me?

Your tunnelling is OMGUS. I'm the strongest person on your wagon against you, and your only case on me is that you agree with Ald in post 1587.

You, out of OMGUS have done the WORST read of this game (don't pretend you didn't ignore full posts and just skim for what you could use opportunistically - -since page 7 I might add)
===============================================

The funny thing is, you don't frighten me. Nobody will buy into that garbage. All they will see is your sad attempt at an OMGUS vote on me, after a PISS POOR read of the game based on (as you ADMIT) - tunnelling me, and agreeing with other cases you never made lol

Had you performed a GOOD read...

You would have at LEAST:

1. Noted Pablito's wild play and seen where he was trying not to committ, and was suspecting everyone yet nobody at the same time in places in the game. You would have seen how one could also note his own potential scummyness (but that's not your agenda of course)

2. You would have seen my case on Kise and paid attention when "reading" to the D2 antic he pulled where he got jitters about potentially bussing his scumbuddy and he shifted his vote from Kham on and off - - - Kise also didn't contribute to the Kham case as much as everyone may think - he mostly just agreed with it.
================

And for the last time (because again, you did this)

CM and myself cannot be scumbuddies - IT IS ILLOGICAL. You flip flopped on that AGAIN miraculously.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, your lynch can't come soon enough for me. You'll either flip scum and I can focus on Kise, or you can flip town and I can learn from it while working on Kise - either way, scum better get nervous quick.
===============================================

Also, the fact that AT was targetted night one and there was no NK night one has a feeling of scum connection.

I like to regard that as it was - - I was protected (and thankful)
===============================================


You lists and gameplans at the end of that ridiculous post of yours has NO basis past ("I base this off of [enter player name]'s thoughts")

WHY do you suspect Kise at ALL? You mentioned nothing, no evidence, no original observations, NADA - -

You literally did NOTHING with your post or hypothetical (if it exists) "re-read" - - all you did was illustrate that you were right when you said you can't scum hunt and that you are indeed tunnelling me.

So you are tunnelling me.
Conducting OMGUS
Inconsistent
Suicidal

Anything else I should know about you?

If you're indeed town, I'm sincerely disappointed in what you're doing to us. Any other player could have handled themselves in our time of need and you've taken away from a day I could have used to articulate my Kise case

[AndyTony]

I. Hate. Tunnelling.

And I am completely unimpressed with this replacement.

[saberwolf]

1. you wanted it done before the deadline, otherwise had i stuck with a pure mastin-like post like I was considering, it wouldn't have made it in time.

2. getting it done fast meant skimming a lot. I read through the whole thing, but i glanced past the bigger walls of text.

3. I never said I'd do a good job [not that anything I could do would be good in your eyes] I just simply did something to show you my thoughts, because CM was right, I should at least give you guys my final thoughts as a townie before I go.

4. I still think you're scum and you use straight up denial tactics to push your way through

if you're as pro-town as you claim to be, why haven't you been NKed yet? Surely scum would have tried a second time...

893 was Kham defending you from Kdub, a slight note of bussing could be there.

i think 895 was the wrong post though for the other one.

Kises post could be an open scumbuddy questioning, trying to get a read on whcih way to set up the mislynch.

You like to throw words around a lot, if you bothered to tone it down in your posts and read what I say and not what I accuse, you wouldn't look so foolish

Why aren't you scum AT? I think you're feeling the pressure...it sucks, being this close to a scum victory, and yet here is yet another person who opposes you, but don't worry, you'll do your best to get them out of your way too...and then just one more to go if youre lucky....watch out AT, victory may be further than you think...don't start looking foolish now....

[Chinaman]

Hey saber, I see a lot of stuff on AT, but not too much on me. Why do you think I'm scum? This is an honest question. Maybe I could clear things up for you. My reasoning hasn't gotten through to Ald or d3x (though d3x hasn't posted for awhile) so if you are town, I see where you're frustrated with AT. But my question is there because if you really think AT to be scum, how does that correlate to me being scum?

Also, why did you not hammer yourself when I put you at L-1 if you thought it was good for town?

Why with all the stuff on AT and a little bit on Kise am I still at the top of your scum list?

Last thing. You, in a different way, kinda did the same thing I got hammered for by MCD. The only people left out of your scenarios for being scum depending on certain scenarios was Ald (of course), yourself (of course), d3x and Kdub. I agree with you on 3 of those. In your honest opinion, why do you think AT bussed Kham to such a degree that he brought Meta into it? Even when the new guy (me) came in and said I wasn't sold on Meta cases to lynch someone, he defended it right away. Was he bussing so strongly in your opinion?

On my list of town vs scum, I don't really like your reasoning there. It was right after the Kham lynch and the case on Kise wasn't strong at that point. I also explained that the town list could easily include a bussing scum, but at that time, I wanted to focus on my scum list. It wasn't the end all be all of lists, more of a where to begin looking list. Does that make sense to you?

[saberwolf]

CM: you were suspected after defending Kham near the end. Your predecessor was a bit scummy before you showed up. You don't come across as town as some of the others, such as ald and MCD

Kise hasn't posted enough content for me to fully analyze, or at least it seems that way. AT and MCD hog most of the page, so I tend to flutter through them more. Kise is good at keeping his posts neutral enough for when they need to be, but its when you get him posting about sides and small general comments that you can get a certain vibe or notice wordings. Kise also lately seems to be lurking, as if he knows whats going down is a mislynch and doesnt want to impede.

I think AT could bus as weak or as strong as he wanted. He wasn't as early as Kdub and D3X on the Kham lynch [who were on it from day 1] so I can't give him as much credit. It seems nobody can throw this guy down, and he just simply deflects anything you gotta say, so somehow that makes him pro-town. Because of this, the other players either dismiss him, or take his word for it as they can't seem to do otherwise. The only real exceptions would be ald and MCD. However, thats only two people, and not enough to matter. Also, because Kham's scent was caught day 1, AT could have realised that it might be good to sever ties, and you know AT, he's all about delivering the concrete evidence in a case, so he pulls the meta for his case.

The main reason I'm supporting your lynch is more so for information safety. If I wanted to take the risk, I'd vote for AT, and while it would clear more people if he turned up scum, it'd leave a lot more unclears if he flipped town. You on the other hand would clear less people if you flipped scum, but leave less loose ends if you flip town. Taking safety over risk, I go with your lynch.

[Crazy]

Vote Count:

Alduskkel (0)

AndyTony (0)

Chinaman (3)

- d3x, Alduskkel, saberwolf

d3x (0)

Kdub (0)

Kise (0)

MadCrawdad (0)

saberwolf (3)

- AndyTony, Chinaman, Kdub

Not voting (2)

- Kise, Madcrawdad

With 8 alive, 5 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 is

October 17th

.

At deadline, currently saberwolf would be lynched.

[saberwolf]

I tried to get myself out of this cause I was lazy/felt this was impossible to get out of.

Once I failed in lynching myself, I decided to at least contribute, and I was actually starting to have fun poking at you guys, so I stuck around.

Now I actually feel somewhat compelled to give my side of things, dispite how incompetent and incomplete AT may say. CM, as a replacement you know how bad it is to sift through 30 pages. Fuck, i did over double that, and it was no picnic, especially with all the walls of post and such.

[Chinaman]

Thank you for your responses. You missed some questions in there, so if you could get back to them I'd appreciate it. Also, I think you are mistaken on d3x being on Kham. By the time I came in or close to it, he was on AT and didn't go back to Kham before her lynch. If I remember correctly, d3x was on AT, I pulled a gambit, and he left and went to me and that's where he ended the day.

Actually, I just looked an he was on Kham under his predecessor's vote when he came in. He personally never voted for Kham.