Open 432: Robo's PYP (Game Over)

[Natalie]

Hey everyone! It's 1 AM right now so I'll read and post something constructive tomorrow.

[Natalie]

Hmm...pointing out a questionable town read on yourself in the RVS, what's not to not like?

...Damn, that sentence was awkward.

Tbh, it wasn't that bad at all, but at that stage it was enough to vote on.

Explain questionable in more detail.

Explain why you are actually voting me quoting a post and voting while saying 'Well actually it wasn't that bad but its RVS lol' is not a reason.

Do you believe I believe my first post? do you think I think it actually makes me conftown? what was the purpose of my post?

1.I will confess that I can't say why self-reporting a questionable town tell in jest is scummy, but it did bother me on a gut level. I was trying my best given the one post before my vote.
2.I quoted that post because that's the post you asked the question in.
3.I don't know if you believe it, do you?

Your questioning after the vote does seem town, though.

Unvote

Backtracking

So, why do you need me to explain anything for you to consider unvoting?

In the off chance that you were actually being serious about being conf town because you were first. After reviewing the setup, being first would most likely suggest the opposite alignment.
I was suspicious of you because you

were

the first.

Anyway, you seem very genuine so far.

unvote

Likewise.
VOTE: Shamrock

Backtracking

Welcome Starbuck.

Reason for the hydra is Elmo has limited time with work right now , so we got together for this. my bf NS helped me set up the hydra. I am going to sort through these pages and from what I have seen so far we are already getting out of RVS into real discussion.

My RVS vote (if Elmo agreed) was going to be on Absta.

@Shamrock? why are you so SURE it is a scum slip on the part of 13th? Could it be that he did not pay attention to the fact there are 3 scum in this setup? In my experience, scum are more likely to pay closer attention to those kind of details than town ESPECIALLY to how much scum there are.

@ Slandaar and Absta could you two give us something about the rest of the players and stop wrestling with each other for a moment or two?

More later after a chat with Elmo

Why did you need to discuss an RVS vote?

Noraa looks like flailing scum. She wasn't even under that much pressure. Why is it so bad to be called an investigator?

Starbuck basically covered anything I would have said in Post 58.

Reading noraa's AtE walls is so painful...

And absta saves the day by whiteknighting noraa. Absta, you don't think noraa's posts can come from a scum PoV? Her genuineness was not due to her alignment. It didn't really have much to do with the game :/

Sigh...why is everyone calling noraa town? I don't really understand what she is mad about (people nitpicking, belittling, using the word investigation?) but that can happen to scum too, unless I am misunderstanding what she is upset about. Don't let her AtE fool you into thinking she's bona fide town.

@Everyone

Noraa stop defending yourself and scumhunt. You're starting too make me question my read on you.

Kyle what do you think of everyone else?

Why did you make this @Everyone?

VOTE: noraa

She has defended herself using AtE and got all upset and defensive over nothing. In addition to that, after her so-called epiphany, she still hasn't scumhunted.

I might be missing something though, because I don't understand what her genuineness has to do with her alignment. Can someone (besides noraa) explain why scum have to fake whatever she is angry about?

[Natalie]

@Nat

I might be missing something though, because I don't understand what her genuineness has to do with her alignment. Can someone (besides noraa) explain why scum have to fake whatever she is angry about?

In terms of Ate scum almost always fake it.
Most of you are accusing her of being scum because she reacted strongly for something so little. I agree that that could be a sign of scum getting frightened or upset when people get too close. However, i've explained my theory (with evidence) of why she acted out like that and frankly I don't want to repeat myself.

What's your opinion on the theory of there being a large scum density in the first couple of pages?

Well I think sCum can have genuine AtE tOo, but we'll agree to disagree.

You get townPoints for bringing that theory up, but I don't think Robo would open up the thread right after scum picked the PRs.

However, it is possible that scum were waiting for the thread to open up, while town were waiting for a PM. I think flips of the early posters are what will determine if your theory has any merit to it.

[Natalie]

I think scum use AtE more to try and persuade people.

[Natalie]

@Mod
I am going on vacation over the weekend and will be back on Monday. I should be able to check in on my phone though.

[Natalie]

I'll still be able to check in.

So I stand out for calling someone out on backtracking and talking about your burst of emotions? I'm not going to just ignore it. And I do believe it was backtracking.

[Natalie]

I'm on my phone and I don't want to quote and stuff on it because it's annoying as hell.

But for everyone who says I'm not being aggressive, my main scumread was Noraa and if I was aggressive towards her, she'd probably have a breakdown.

Big long post on Monday hopefully. Brandi, Scigatt, and Monty are my main scumreads.

[Natalie]

I think it's quite obvious that Noraaa would have a breakdown if you were to pressure her- that's not any kind of novel conclusion to make.

That's my point.

BK is town
Monty is a good lynch
you guys are weird

No, you're the weird one. BK is scum.

his posts

Really?

genuine town motivation and logic; voting for scum.

We don't know if he is voting for scum yet. Only scum know that, honey.

But where is this genuine town motivation and logic you are speaking of? I don't see it.

I want everyone to read through Brandi's ISO. Much of it has nothing to do with the game, she has barely scumhunted, and her posts are generally useless.

And her townread on BK is mindboggling. Not sure if she is buddies with him or just buddying to him, but either way, Brandi is scum.

Confirm Vote: Brandi

[Natalie]

No, I'm not saying that you have to have the same reads as me. Don't twist my words. I honestly can't see how you have a townread on BK. Your reasoning is genuine town motivation and logic (prove it with quotes, etc) and that he is voting scum. As I've said before, only scum know that.

You replaced in on Friday. I expect some form of scumhunting in a 4-day period.

[Natalie]

I have been V/LA for a while and I replaced in myself. I'm not saying that I am contributing more than you; I am saying that you need to contribute more than your short, snappy two-liners. (Your latest post was a good one) And hypocrisy isn't scummy. I run the risk of calling you out on something I'm doing because you can turn around and do the same to me.

[Natalie]

Why not?

[Natalie]

Her AtE which I still don't buy as only coming from town and Brandi's play hasn't done anything to improve the slot.

But I'm not opposed to a BK lynch.

[Natalie]

This Brandi v Natalie thing is a ridiculous waste of space.

Natalie, you've been tunneling Nora/Brandi the

entire

game. The only time you gave any other reads was when you said:

Big long post on Monday hopefully. Brandi, Scigatt, and Monty are my main scumreads.

Now, you never expressed any interest in Monty before or after this post and made note of one occurrence where Scigatt backtracked and that's the only time you mention him. Other than that you've also said how insane it is that Brandi has a town read on BK, but you've yet to explain why you had a scumread on BK. Why have you made no mention of why you find any of your scumreads scummy other than Brandi?

I have been V/LA most of the game, so EXCUSE ME if I didn't give you a play-by-play of my scumreads.

Scigiatt played very strangely, vote hopped, and then replaced out under pressure. BK has done nothing to improve the slot. Look at his ISO. He's done nothing, except ask for my meta and do nothing about it.

Monty is scummy for being worried about a possible conf-town (Slandaar), parking his vote on Nora, and then flaking. But his wagon does worry me since it is (or was) a pretty large wagon for a player with six posts.

But Elmo's "slip", WHICH WAS NOT A SLIP AT ALL AND YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS, is the most illuminating piece of information in this game. Post 330 is the truth except for obvtown on BK. When I went V/LA, I just copied and pasted a message into the thread without reading it. I doubt BK read that and didn't say anything about it. And if he did, that's more likely to come from scum who doesn't want to react the wrong way.

Brandi's and Starbuck's reactions scream scum. Starbuck is reluctant to join the wagon, which is extremely scummy. IF YOU THOUGHT IT WAS A SLIP, YOU WOULDN'T WAIT AND LET THEM EXPLAIN THEMSELVES. It actually looks like Starbuck might be waiting for her scum partner to come and save himself.

And Brandi, oh Brandi.
Let me quote this one again for everyone to see.

unvote

vote: Purrfect Panda

Was looking at the front page and back here again in case I missed something.
That definitely looks like a slip to me.
Almost... intentional? :/

Do you seriously think scum would INTENTIONALLY slip? Please tell me you aren't

that

stupid. Oh wait, you are:

It's funny how people react when you do something a bit crazy.

Crazy? You mean scummy.

You essentially claimed scum.

It doesn't matter whether someone "thinks you are dumb enough to slip up" or not.

Scum slip all of the time. Scum get lynched for slipping. That appeal to probability doesn't mean shit.

If you are actually town and are pulling something like that- you are -directly- hurting the town with your actions.

Of -course- town is going to vote for you if you claim that you have "insider information" because *SCUM* have insider information.

If there is a vig- a stunt like that could have caused him to out himself. Do you know how anti-town your actions are?

But no- I don't buy it.

This is just a shoddy attempt to pull suspicion off of yourself by labeling it as a gambit.

There is no way you would do something so thoughtless as town without even discussing it with your other head.

Here is your terrible justification of your actions, which I will go through line by line.

It's funny how people react when you do something a bit crazy.

Crazy? You mean scummy.

No, he means crazy.

You essentially claimed scum.

No he didn't. And if you thought he claimed scum, you would say more than this:

unvote

vote: Purrfect Panda

Was looking at the front page and back here again in case I missed something.
That definitely looks like a slip to me.
Almost... intentional? :/

You should have been screaming "OMG ELMO SLIPPED, KILL HIM WITH FIRE" rather than "that definitely looks like a slip, almost intentional :/" But of course you know he didn't slip because you are scum.

It doesn't matter whether someone "thinks you are dumb enough to slip up" or not.

Where did anyone say that Elmo was dumb enough to slip?

Scum slip all of the time. Scum get lynched for slipping. That appeal to probability doesn't mean shit.

Yes, and as I said before, if you actually thought he slipped, you would be all up on that shit.

If you are actually town and are pulling something like that- you are -directly- hurting the town with your actions.

Really? I thought the reactions he got from that were pretty spot on, and -directly- helped the town.

Of -course- town is going to vote for you if you claim that you have "insider information" because *SCUM* have insider information.

I'm not going to repeat myself about how you would have acted if you actually thought he slipped.

If there is a vig- a stunt like that could have caused him to out himself. Do you know how anti-town your actions are?

Why would the vig out himself? And since he didn't and Elmo got reads from what he did, please explain how his actions were anti-town.

But no- I don't buy it.

Really, because I thought you bought it from you constantly saying it was a slip. [/sarcasm]

This is just a shoddy attempt to pull suspicion off of yourself by labeling it as a gambit.

What would you expect him to say if it was a gambit?

There is no way you would do something so thoughtless as town without even discussing it with your other head.

I will give you this point, as Rach wanted to discuss an RVS vote with Elmo before putting it down. But Elmo is more impulsive than Rach.

And Slandaar's plan is pretty foolproof. Why would you still want Elmo to be lynched after looking at it? Unless you can find a major flaw in it, I don't see the town motivation in you wanting Panda dead.

@Sawyer
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote Brandi? Stop dilly-dallying around it. Don't want to sound hypocritical for accusing me of placing my vote on obvscum Brandi?

[Natalie]

Yes

[Natalie]

Why would the vig out himself? And since he didn't and Elmo got reads from what he did, please explain how his actions were anti-town.

If someone essentially claims scum.
You -honestly- think that town is going to ignore it and scum are the only ones going to hop on?
In my experience, someone claiming scum causes scum too be confused/not vote. They are too paranoid about a townie claiming scum and don't want to take "easy" bait; etc.

So why aren't you jumping on Sawyer/Starbuck?

And town is actually very likely to quicklynch someone who claims scum. Why wouldn't they? Not every townie is cautious in that manner.
Like you said "responsible town"
Not every town is responsible.
I've seen townie's claiming scum ruin entire games.
Also I disagree with Slandaar's idea being "fool proof"
as I outlined in an earlier post.

I don't think he would've been quicklynched. And I don't think he claimed scum either.

Now, as I said claiming scum as town *could* cause the town to quicklynch you-
Now a townie that was a lot less likely to die that day- is dead. It's a distraction away from scum.

But he didn't claim scum and he wasn't quicklynched...so what's your point?

And then there's the whole "oh let's just have the vig shoot him"
-if he's town... that's wasting a VIG shot on a townie.

But you don't understand the plan. The only way for Panda to know if there is a vig in this setup is if he is scum or the vig. (And it's highly unlikely he's the vig) So if he doesn't get shot tonight, that means there is no vig and he isn't scum.

All he's accomplishing is likely getting himself killed, and as town, despite that sometimes you have to die- you should never go out of your way to die on the basis of WIFOMing reactions from the town.

He's only getting himself killed if he's scum.

There's also the fact that I'm town, I know I'm town- yet somehow my reaction was seen as scummy.
He's successfully caused suspicion on a town member.
IF HE IS TOWN, and if there is a vig- and for my reaction to the "slip" you were to lynch me today- that would be
-3 townies.

1 from me being lynched,
1 from the scum kill,
1 from the "vig" kill.

You are blowing this way out of proportion. First off, if he gets shot by the vig, he's scum. And if we lynched you and you somehow flipped town, that would be one scum, two town down. If he doesn't get shot, it's two town and no scum. Not three town.

That is how what he did was anti-town.
You can't rely on reactions to claimed scum. It just generates WIFOM.

But he didn't claim scum!

Do you seriously think scum would INTENTIONALLY slip? Please tell me you aren't that stupid. Oh wait, you are:

Yes. Scum would slip intentionally if they want to throw the game. Hence my ":/" face.

No one comes to that conclusion when analyzing a "slip".

Keep in mind that Purrfect Panda had suspicion on him previously. That wasn't the first time that he was called out for being scummy.

So you think he would risk getting banned, risk getting Rach banned (playing against your wincon) and lose the game for his team all because he has suspicion on him?

Here is your terrible justification of your actions, which I will go through line by line.

Justification for my actions? voting for claimed scum is nothing I need to justify.

Well you thought you had to justify it.

No he didn't. And if you thought he claimed scum, you would say more than this:

...

You should have been screaming "OMG ELMO SLIPPED, KILL HIM WITH FIRE" rather than "that definitely looks like a slip, almost intentional :/" But of course you know he didn't slip because you are scum.

...

I'm not going to repeat myself about how you would have acted if you actually thought he slipped.

"No true scotsman"
"Relativist fallacy"

Just because you don't understand my reaction doesn't mean my reaction wasn't legitimate. I already explained a couple pages back why I reacted in that manner, though.

So you DID justify your actions, by explaining how you reacted.

Where did anyone say that Elmo was dumb enough to slip?

Here:

I mean seriously ffs. You think I'm that stupid to say I'm scum like that.

No, that isn't saying he is dumb enough to slip.

What would you expect him to say if it was a gambit?

Do you believe any townie who claims they are gambiting just because they say that they are?
Do you believe that all gambits are made by the town?

No, but you are saying that only scum when do what Elmo did, when if you think about it, town would act the same way around a gambit.

I have been V/LA most of the game, so EXCUSE ME if I didn't give you a play-by-play of my scumreads.

Sorry. That's my bad for... scumhunting. I shouldn't have been doing that. It won't happen again...

You're so cool.

I just don't understand why you have time to tunnel Brandi the entire game rather than also taking the time to question, and comment on, your other scumreads. V/LA has nothing to do with who you decide to talk about.

Brandi is my main scumread, so I'm going to focus on her the most.

@Sawyer
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote Brandi? Stop dilly-dallying around it. Don't want to sound hypocritical for accusing me of placing my vote on obvscum Brandi?

I'm not dilly-dallying around anything. My vote is on who I think is mostly likely to be scum. Brandi is certainly moving on up though.

This boys and girls is what we call a leaping point. Sawyer can now hop onto Brandi's wagon once she does one thing scummy because she's "moving up" on his scumlist.

Sawyer, why do you think it is a better idea to vig Panda than to lynch him?

Are you even reading this game?

Absta's case on Sawyer has piqued my interest. I will analyze it soon.

[Natalie]

@Deas
Do you think Panda slipped?

[Natalie]

@BK
If Brandi is town, then you and or Deas is scum.

[Natalie]

@Starbuck
I think Deas and BK are also scummy. (I've already said this) Shamrock is getting up there as well, but I don't want to lynch him today.

I could settle for a BK lynch but would rather a Brandi lynch.

[Natalie]

Brandi, I never said some of the things you quoted in your post.

It seems Brandi's lynch isn't happening today, so I'll settle for BK.

VOTE: BK201

L-1

[Natalie]

UNVOTE: BK201
VOTE: Brandi

Now can her lynch go through?

BK isn't cleared, since I find it strange if scum actually chose jailkeeper. But it's possible.

Can you please show how I am painfully obvious scum? And while you're at it, explain how you haven't picked up on this before? Why is it only a revelation when I put a vote on you?