Open 410 Trouble in Paradise Game Over TOWN WIN

[Lastsurvivor]

Combo breaker?

VOTE: Om

[Lastsurvivor]

No vote, Jal?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jal

While I would say that this is a good thread, I'm not sure I'd call it the

best.

[Lastsurvivor]

I'm shocked that you'd even say that Kondi

[Lastsurvivor]

Now I'm just

appalled

.

[Lastsurvivor]

Ich finde Mafia ist Spaß.
Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch.
Ich lerne Deutsch in der Schule.
Hat jemand von euch sprechen Deutsch?

This does not please the english reader.

@Gen: If I'm scum then why don't ya vote me? Callin yo' bluff.

[Lastsurvivor]

That's true. Your name is Genwolf, not bluff. How silly of me.

[Lastsurvivor]

^ Me too

V/LA Friday until part of Sunday

Noted.

[Lastsurvivor]

Pere do you think I'm good at flailing? Or do I need to work on my act more?

[Lastsurvivor]

No longer V/LA Friday until Sunday

However, I will be V/LA next Friday until Sunday, weather permitting

[Lastsurvivor]

Not sure, since i've never played with you and didn't know you were supposed to be flailing. If you were, than yes.

This game does need to get moving though.

Thoughts on LS? @Vijay

[Lastsurvivor]

Just FTR Om is at L-1. Nobody quickhammer please.

Chrimi's been too absent. He should vote for someone.

[Lastsurvivor]

He's stating something already known to get towncred.

The person who quickhammers you probably wouldn't have known.

[Lastsurvivor]

<--- Is debating whether or not to claim because A) it's page 3, B) two of the votes on me are RVS, and C) nobody has claimed intent to hammer.

This clearly implies I'm at L-1. Anyone would have read it to know that I was at L-1. Plus, if they quickhammer and then claim they didn't know it was a hammer, then it's an obvious scumclaim.

I was just saying it for those of us that needed it spelled out for them.

I'm assuming anyone who quickhammers won't be smart enough to take your hints. And when they do say "Omg I didn't see that post!" we can point to the post that says you were at L-1.

[Lastsurvivor]

Yeahno, I don't believe you. I can't see anyone not being able to get it from my post.

You obviously aren't thinking like a quickhammerer then.

[Lastsurvivor]

People who quickhammer at times when it won't win them the game are stupid. I'm not stupid. I don't see how I can think like a quickhammerer.

If you're smarter than a quickhammerer, then I would think that it would be even easier to think like them...

[Lastsurvivor]

In Om's defense, he does have a tendency to flail under pressure.

We probably shouldn't end the day yet.

[Lastsurvivor]

Om, why do you think that?

Also, explain why 103 is irrational. I know you think it is.

[Lastsurvivor]

TvK, I would expect you of all people to know that Om flails epicly when under pressure.

[Lastsurvivor]

TvK, I would expect you of all people to know that Om flails epicly when under pressure.

Yes I know, but last time he was town as well so I don't want him to do the same thing twice.

Everyone should submit how they interpreted this post.

Basically, you have two interpretations to choose from. Om's interpretation in #119, or TvK's interpretation in #121. But you can come up with your own if you want.

[Lastsurvivor]

That's how I read it at first. I'm wondering if anyone read it the way TvK says he meant it the first time they read it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TvK

Better place for my vote than Jal.

[Lastsurvivor]

Pretty sure TvK is scum, but I'm WILLING AND ABLE to vote Gen_Wolf

WILLING

AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE

VOTE: GW

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kondi

[Lastsurvivor]

So Gen is scum with TvK?

[Lastsurvivor]

Why so urgent to claim? :/

[Lastsurvivor]

Can we vote vijay instead?

Shit you are as floppy as a fish out of water.

[Lastsurvivor]

We are not running people up to L-1, getting a claim, and doing it to someone else. That's twice today for no good reason.

So you think we should lynch Gen?

[Lastsurvivor]

Oh. I assumed from your post that you don't want to see someone else claim...

[Lastsurvivor]

Hey guys I have a better idea.

Let's lynch flip floppy Kondi.

[Lastsurvivor]

A reminder that I will be V/LA Friday - Sunday.

[Lastsurvivor]

Pretty sure TvK is scum, but I'm WILLING AND ABLE to vote Gen_Wolf

WILLING

AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE

VOTE: GW

Pretty sure TvK is scum

Then you're saying the JK claim is fake? And you don't think he's town fakeclaiming it, and you moved your vote?

Need to explain more and better.

Vote: kondi2424

I was just saying that I think TvK is scummy and his claim doesn't stop that.

Can we vote vijay instead?

Note that Kondi made these posts basically in a row (With one post that said "Possibly" in between them somewhere). Flip. Floppy.

@Kondi: Out of these three people you said were scum...which one(s) do you think are actually scum?

[Lastsurvivor]

You've provided no reasoning for any of your scumreads, which contributes to why I think you're flip floppy flip flop.

I'm more interested in hearing why you think I'm scum than Vijay or TvK.

[Lastsurvivor]

Vote: Last Survivor I don't need a case I am just using blind luck and gut. Don't worry I am allowed too. Om of the Nom said so. Idiot.

Are you voting me to prove a point, or is this a srs vote?

[Lastsurvivor]

I find it interesting that the whole "LS asked for interpretations" thing is coming up now. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Also, Gen's self voting gig makes me think he's town. Self voting unless your self hammering is stupid and I don't think scum would do it. Kondi's reads are good, but I'm still not feeling alright about him. Not reading the thread isn't really an excuse to do stupid things.

[Lastsurvivor]

Alright, just looked back and I see Kondi's at L-1. Anyway, gonna actually read through his catch up post since I just kinda skimmed it yday...

- I want everyone who believes TvK scumslipped to explain why they jumped off of him.

Erm, shouldn't the reason be obvious? I.e, he claimed JK and is Un CCd.

- I feel like LS can't be scum with Om, GW, or PV due to RVS stuff.

What RVS stuff exactly? Or is this something you can't explain?

[Lastsurvivor]

@Kondi:

Pretty sure TvK is scum, but I'm WILLING AND ABLE to vote Gen_Wolf

WILLING

AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE

VOTE: GW

Pretty sure TvK is scum

Then you're saying the JK claim is fake? And you don't think he's town fakeclaiming it, and you moved your vote?

Need to explain more and better.

Vote: kondi2424

I was just saying that I think TvK is scummy and his claim doesn't stop that.

Can we vote vijay instead?

Note that Kondi made these posts basically in a row (With one post that said "Possibly" in between them somewhere). Flip. Floppy.

@Kondi: Out of these three people you said were scum...which one(s) do you think are actually scum?

This is mostly why I find you bad. I can't say much for other's.

Also, if you could answer those questions I asked you that'd be kewl.

[Lastsurvivor]

@TvK's/Jal's case:

Meta part I can't really say much about. I believe at one point the game I played with TvK was the only game I was playing, and now my activity is split across three games. So meh. Maybe that's why he thinks I"m not as busy as I usually am. But I'm still scumhunting.
Anyway, the whole thing with asking for a TvK interpretation is weak. It was pretty obvious that I thought TvK scumslipped. And I was still the first person to vote him, so it's not like I let a wagon form and then quietly slipped on.

[Lastsurvivor]

A scumslip is a scumslip, though. If there was any belief in it, there would be no need for an unvote.

That's ridiculous. If no one comes out with a CC, then I'm not gonna lynch him, even if he did scumslip. It's that simple. Plus, TvK apparently meant something else, and I'm willing to believe him since...he's the Un CCd JK.

[Lastsurvivor]

If people ever actually BELIEVED that TvK scumslipped, it wouldn't MATTER what he claimed. A SCUMSLIP MEANS SOMEONE IS CONFIRMED SCUM. It's possible (and correct play on the Jailkeeper's part) that the Jailkeeper didn't plan on claiming because his CC FREAKING SCUMSLIPPED.

I would assume that the real JK would have claimed by now since the chances of TvK getting lynched today are low.

Vijay coming in here and echoing something already said is unimpressive.

[Lastsurvivor]

shotty is correct. Not sure what you're trying to say Gen.

Kondi is saying that if TvK slipped, then the real JK should not have claimed because TvK is irrefutably scum. I replied that the real JK would have claimed by now since, as it stands, TvK is not getting lynched today and the real JK would be letting a confscum (from their POV) slip.

[Lastsurvivor]

By your definition, no, since TvK was never confirmed scum via that statement. The key word there being confirmed.

We use the term differently though I think.

[Lastsurvivor]

I'm confused. Why are you driving the point home that none of us had faith in the slip if you think TvK's scum?

[Lastsurvivor]

Mayhaps?

What's so bad about Jal?

[Lastsurvivor]

It seems unusual you weren't taking the lead on the lynch. Why ask others first before taking the leap?

There were two interpretations of the post and I wanted to see if anyone was going to push the much less obvious one TvK proposed, essentially. I won't claim it was a reaction test, because it wasn't, but more so seeing if others saw what I saw. You can misconstrue that into being scummy all you want, but it's a extremely weak and irrelevant point in the grand scheme of things.

And I don't know how you could say I wasn't taking the lead. First to vote and all that.

[Lastsurvivor]

Jal's placed himself in a convenient spot in that he's placing suspicion on the top two bandwagons (myself and Kondi). I think he's bussing Kondi though, really. I propose Jal/Kondi as my "called it" team.

And, no, he has not. Has someone declared intent to hammer?

[Lastsurvivor]

Which could have been similarly accomplished by voting him and asking the same question to others. Why wait for others validation before voting?

I've already explained why I did what I did. Why the hell does it matter, Jal? You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Where have I said Kondi is suspicious? I said earlier:

I'm going to look over Kondi later today after my class. He has always seemed flip floppy so I just took it as Kondi being Kondi.

You cut a part out of #257. Here, let me paste the whole post.

I'm going to look over Kondi later today after my class. He has always seemed flip floppy so I just took it as Kondi being Kondi. Of course, I've yet to know his alignment in any game I've been with him. I'll post more (useful) content later.

The sentence you cut out ("He's always flip floppy BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT SO DUN DUN DUNNN") is what made me think you were placing yourself in a position to cast suspicion on both wagons.

[Lastsurvivor]

Oh, Jal, you're also forgetting this post:

Kondi

:

I disagree with LS that your reads are good. Most of your list has left the majority of the town open to be scum down the line. Shotgun, Lastsurvivor, Gen_Wolf, Jal, PV, TvK - While giving barely any definitive reason for finding them scummy, with the exception of TvK. By the looks of it, most of your reads also seem to be heavily based on RVS interactions, which I question the usefulness of. Your reads, at most, is a list of very vague suggestions that has no good reasoning behind them and has barely any substance for others to build on. No one can really criticize or agree with them. There's nothing to work with. You don't even provide an actual reason for why I am scum.

Why did you originally vote for Vijay and think he's scummy?

I have a feeling Jal is scum if TvK is not based on reactions.

More vagueness. What reactions are those specifically?

Can you really tell me you aren't suspicious of Kondi? Sure, you never

say

it, but shit you might as well have.

[Lastsurvivor]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jal

Feel much better about this than Kondi.

REASONS

Seems to me you're latching onto the most simplest thing in an attempt to make someone else

look scummier than you.

(BOLD ADDED BY ME)

Not too bad on it's own. I think Jal's taking advantage of Om's flailing here, but obviously nothing to prove it.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE.

Jal says this about #91:

I never said you were scum,

nor did I say that in an attempt to portray you as such.

If you believed that was what I was doing, it's interesting that you didn't deny it. Are you scum?

(BOLD, UNDERLINE ADDED BY ME)

Excuse me? How can Jal say that he never attempted to portray Om as scummy? Look at the bolded phrase in the first quote. "in an attempt to make someone else look scummier than you." What?

#128 - I find it interesting that Jal was on the TvK wagon. Me asking for other's people's input before I voted wasn't bad

then

. In fact, he totally sheeped me. But now that the dust has cleared on that wagon, it's suddenly scummy that I did so. Aight.

And my last post. Jal's claiming that he never found Kondi suspicious yet basically said so in two posts. Huh.

[Lastsurvivor]

You're avoiding answering the question. I'll restate it again for you: Why wait for others validation before voting and not after? For wanting to see if others saw what you saw, why did you wait for only one person to post their interpretation?

I don't know. I just did.

It's not important.

Can you please explain why doing that is scummy? You're taking something so small and irrelevant and making something huge out of it.

Also, you're really accusing me of being anxious scum? You've totally got nothing.

This misconstrues my post. My original post was in direct response to drmyshotgun's post 241 and Om's post 250 wherein suspicion is cast on Kondi due to his behavior. My post is stating that I'll look over Kondi today (to see what everyone else is seeing), as up to that point Kondi's behavior is similar to what I've seen from him (and thus I see him as townie), but I don't know his alignment in any game I've been with him (I already said prior I in post 223 I don't get scum vibes on him this game), and thus why I'm going-over his posts once again (to see if he is actually acting differently, but so far I only see town).

I didn't misconstrue anything. "He's always flip floppy, but I don't really know his alignment [in any of my other games]." was the implied statement.

The only suspicion I was casting in that post was of you. In post 254 you called his reads good. Seriously? Most of his scum reads/teams had no reasoning behind them, which your criticized him for previously in post 183. What?

Alright, just looked back and I see Kondi's at L-1. Anyway, gonna actually read through his catch up post since I just kinda skimmed it yday...

AKA, I didn't really read his list in depth when I read it.

Also, I always thought that your post post 123 was on the scum side - at the time I only thought TvK staying by his vote to be scummier. I evaluated GW, found the wagon wanting, thus I voted for you.

Oh

always

? And you never said anything?

Instead of copying and pasting #91 and going "excuse me", how about you explain how exactly that sentence is an attempt to make Om look scummy? How is it even scummy?

Did you even read the post? You said you weren't trying to make his posts scummy. But in the first post, you said he was trying to make others look scummier than him. I, you know, said that in the post.

As for the rest of your post, it's funny how now after I voted and pushed you a tad, that now you vote for me. HMMMMM. I guess it would be easier to lynch the person most suspicious of you than to kill them during the night and gain further suspicion.

Oh, you've really got nothing do you Jal?

[Lastsurvivor]

Jal, how often do you accuse people of OMGUS in your games? Or the other typically basic and wikiesque tells, such as "anxious scum" etc?

[Lastsurvivor]

You have yet to further comment on it or change your opinion of Kondi's reads. One can therefore assume, that after catching up you still feel his reads are "good."

If you read the post I quoted, I ask for clarification on a bunch of his reads. No, his reads weren't good. Jesus, Jal, you aren't this dense.

Sure I did: post 223. I already explained my reasoning for the timing.

Jal, you know what I meant. You never said anything about it

before

223?

... is an attempt to portray Om as scummy? I want to hear your reasoning here. Also, how is my saying this even scummy? There is a reason this exchange between Om and I was dropped. Taking old discussions and making something out of nothing initially there in an attempt to push a weak lynch is just reaching at this point.

Again, I've already explained. I'll extract the two contradicting things to make it easier.

I never said you were scum, nor did I say that in an attempt to portray you as such.

Seems to me you're latching onto the most simplest thing in an attempt to

make someone else look scummier than you.

...Do you see it?

Feel free to do the legwork yourself. While you're doing that, try taking some more time looking up things to use in your next attempt to discredit me. This stuff isn't flying.

Before I couldn't do that because we weren't in any completed games together BUT NOW I CAN. <3

N1239 In this game you are a totally different Jal. You don't pull shit like calling people anxious scum or accusing them of OMGUS. And you aren't this fucking dense.

Anyway, now that there's a counterexample, I'm going to guess the answer to my question is 'no'?

[Lastsurvivor]

@TvK: I stayed on the sidelines during the Om thing because I know how badly he flails under pressure. There's no point in asking him anything because he just gets worse and worse. Also, I'm pretty sure the conversation was happening outside of my timezone (i.e, while I was at school) so meh.

And there's really no good reason as to why I asked for validation. Really, I wanted to see if others saw what I did, but I guess I thought that I didn't really care after Peregrine posted. No one has yet explained to me why it's important.

Anyway, TvK, what do you think of Jal? Look at our argument. How do you think he's holding up?

[Lastsurvivor]

Excuses. Sure I flail under pressure, but that's only because I try to get everything out there too fast. You know what I say is right when I flail.

Yup. Really, I said more during that argument than TvK is giving me credit for. I did side with you after we got that silly quick hammering thing out of the way.

[Lastsurvivor]

Sorry. I have totally neglected this game. Just read over it and will do a in depth response tonight. I would say Jal is strong town from what I read now though!

His responses are giving you town vibes?

Oh, Gen, please explain.

[Lastsurvivor]

I think Jal is town because he is playing like normal Jal to be honest. He is posting frequently and in depth and makes a decision and does what he usually does. Right now Jal is town in my eyes based on meta the same as LS and Kondi are leaning scum based on meta and previous experiences. More so LS than Kondi at the moment!

Oh, please. Your vote's based off of meta? Feel free to include your unexplained meta reasoning in your case, but try to find some actual substance from this game.

Anyway, you really think Jal's playing like he normally does? The Jal I know doesn't need things explained to him three times. The Jal I know doesn't call people anxious scum or accuse them of OMGUS because he's trying to lynch someone he's got nothing on. ETC.

^ That's an explained meta difference, btw. How about you explain how I'm playing differently, Gen?

[Lastsurvivor]

@Everyone not voting for Jal (excluding Jal obvs). AKA Gen Wolf, TvK, Peregrine, Vijay, Shotgun:

Tell me what you think of Jal.

[Lastsurvivor]

Just gonna echo this question.

@Everyone not voting for Jal (excluding Jal obvs). AKA Gen Wolf, TvK, Peregrine, Vijay, Shotgun:

Tell me what you think of Jal.

[Lastsurvivor]

Asking a question regarding Kondi's reads does not negate your early contradictory motivated statement, "Kondi's reads are good" nor does it give the impression of otherwise. You made a big slip here.

How did I slip? If I said "Oh, I didn't actually read Kondi's reads" and then start asking questions about them, it implies two things.

1) My statement "Kondi's reads are good" isn't credible because I DIDN'T ACTUALLY READ THE READS.
2) That I have problems with the post.

re the questions: Those were my only two problems with the post. So I guess if they aren't about his reads, then sure, Kondi's reads were fine. But the post itself wasn't...if that makes sense.

re the "explain (for the fourth fucking time) why that contradiction was scummy". I'll walk you through it...like you're five.

Spoiler: explanation

In post 101, you said that you never attempted to portray Om as scum. Right? Let's define "portray":

1. To depict or represent pictorially; make a picture of.
2. To depict or describe in words.
3. To represent dramatically, as on the stage.

I believe #2 is the definition we want here. You did not depict or describe Om as scum in #101, according to you.

In post 91, you said Om was latching onto something scummy in order to "make someone else look scummier than [him]."

Huh. If you're saying that someone is trying to make someone scummier than themselves, wouldn't that imply that that person is...scummy? I.e, you are trying to describe or depict them as scum? That's weird, you said you

didn't

do that in 101! That sounds like a contradiction to me.

...Are you happy?

Also - why would I need to further portray Om as scummy when Gen was already there to hammer him and most people thought he was scummy anyway?

Because you had nothing else to say and you needed to say something? Who knows? I'm not you.

[Lastsurvivor]

. . . knowing that at the time of posting this I couldn't answer you? So basically, you just tried to discredit me knowing I wouldn't have the ability to reinforce myself or back myself up. I honestly can't see anyone but scum trying to do this. Why would a townie need to do this in an attempt to push weakly push a lynch?

Your first quoted statement implies you couldn't do the the legwork until we had a completed game together. Being in a game together isn't necessary to look up someone's meta. It is also implying you were aware I had no completed games prior to the one you listed, as you had to wait until the one we were in was completed to give "examples."

You're erm...grasping for straws here.

You could have easily said "No I don't really accuse people of OMGUS, anxious scum etc" without any completed games. And, yes, I could have done the legwork, but I

a) wanted to see how you would respond to the question (your lack of a definitive yes/no is what I expected) and
b) Just wanted to point people to a completed game. If the game wasn't completed, I would have said that you didn't act like this in our games together.

Also, I didn't know if you had any other games completed, but I was just talking about games we were in together. I wasn't going to go prowling through your completed games and read them.

re OMGUS: Let me quote the statment.

As for the rest of your post, it's funny how now after I voted and pushed you a tad, that now you vote for me. HMMMMM. I guess it would be easier to lynch the person most suspicious of you than to kill them during the night and gain further suspicion.

I think everyone would agree with me that you just described OMGUS perfectly. You vote me, and then I vote you. Re it being about an ongoing game: Obviously you can't point out where, but I have no idea what you're talking about. You'll have to elaborate once the game ends I guess.

So far the only thing you have on me in this regard is that I'm acting "totally different" by calling you out as anxious scum in this game and somehow I am more dense here. This is the meta you have? Nothing on my actual playstyle, which Gen mentions in his post is similar as it is in our previous game together?

You're tunneling too. You didn't do that in N1239. But yeah, basically. I care more about the other stuff in my case more than the meta.

[Lastsurvivor]

Hey Vijay

What do you think of Jal

[Lastsurvivor]

Also VERY LATE POST EDIT

I believe #2 is the definition we want here. You did not depict or describe Om as scum in #101, according to you.

This should read "You did not depict or describe Om as scum in #91"

[Lastsurvivor]

No.

Sorry that wasn't a yes or no question.

re post 350: That doesn't really help you out much. Can you explain how that disproves what I just said? All I see is you describing what happened.

1. You set me up with a question in which I couldn't definitively back up yet due to no completed games at the time of you posting this.

No. You could have easily said "I do that often/I don't do that often." I would have not believed you/believed you because...quite frankly, I already knew the answer.

2. Apparently, I passed/failed a sort of reaction test because I didn't give a yes or no answer to a non yes or no question. Just to save us a page of bullshit - "how often do you accuse.. yada yada" is not a yes or no question. It's very odd that you're now giving some excuse on why you didn't do the legwork when originally asking the question. At the time you couldn't really do any legwork because there were no completed games of mine at the time of the question. Why do you feel the need now to make up an excuse now for not originally doing it that doesn't even make sense?

Oh, you knew what I meant. Your lack of an affirmative response/negative response. You didn't answer the question.

Jal, I've been in like three games with you. Why are you saying I can't do the legwork? I've probably seen a majority of your posts already. <_<

Also, how does this question point people to a completed game? There were no completed games of mine available at the time of your question. You really can't keep your story or posts straight anymore, can you?

What are you talking about here? I was referring to this post. I pointed people to a completed game in that post. Not sure what you mean by not being able to keep my story straight.

[Lastsurvivor]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT WE HAVE LESS THAN TWO DAYS UNTIL DEADLINE WE NEED TO LYNCH SOON.

That is all.

[Lastsurvivor]

Just saying this before I head off somewhere, I think Jal plays this way all the time. Think he's Town.

Meh. Maybe I'm just seeing things differently because I'm arguing with him.

Anyway, Jal and I can hold our argument until D2 since I don't think anyone's going to vote him either. Intent to hammer Kondi. He should claim and stuff.

[Lastsurvivor]

little bit over 7.5 hours until lynch.

I'm still comfortable with Kondi lynch, despite his reads-giving at the end. Vijay, let us know the results from your reread so I (or someone else I guess) can hammer.

[Lastsurvivor]

Or...Om can hammer without letting Vijay do his reread.
Alright.

[Lastsurvivor]

Mk.
If Kondi flips town, I'll reconsider my Jal position since he brought up a good point about the townslip.
If Kondi flips scum, I'll consider the point irrelevant.

[Lastsurvivor]

This game deserves a reread.

Since Kondi's town, Jal being town is fairly likely due to the townslip he pointed out.
TvK, who did you jail and why are you not dead?

[Lastsurvivor]

Ok.
Anyway, can I get a town consensus:

Since we didn't want the JK to CC TvK yesterday...do we want the JK to CC TvK,

now?

[Lastsurvivor]

I don't think scum thought out that night kill thoroughly.

Or TvK's not the real JK...

So, anyway, town consensus: Do we want to ask for any CCs on the JK or not?

[Lastsurvivor]

Y not?

There's a lovely question you can answer.

[Lastsurvivor]

Alright. Everyone in their next post should say one of the following sentences:

"I am the JK"

or

"I am not the JK"

obvs the sentence you choose should be the one that's true.

I am not the JK.

[Lastsurvivor]

Because I'm actually doing something useful instead of writing stories, vijay.

I'm going to assume you are not the JK?

[Lastsurvivor]

He's in law school I think. I dunno if something goes on at this time in the year. Site flake is probable though.

Gen needs to show up/to get replaced fast because he's the only one that can CC.

[Lastsurvivor]

*only one left

then TvK's clear and, as Jal said, scum did not think the NK through.

[Lastsurvivor]

Did a reread. Gen Wolf (SB, I suppose) and Jal are town. TvK is confirmed town as of last post.

This leaves drmyshotgun, vijay, and pere who I have mixed feelings about.

Let's start at the end.

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Lastsurvivor]

Oh...hm. I just meant the feelings I have about the three of you are mixed (i.e, not uniform). Not necessarily the feelings I have about you are mixed.

I agree that sentence was vague though. You probably want an answer though, right?

[Lastsurvivor]

Did a reread. Gen Wolf (SB, I suppose) and Jal are town. TvK is confirmed town as of last post.

This leaves drmyshotgun, vijay, and pere who I have mixed feelings about.

Let's start at the end.

VOTE: PeregrineV

why? why PV over the other two?

Oh this is just going splendidly!

Tell me, vijay, does it bother you that I chose pere over shotgun?

[Lastsurvivor]

I was going to explain but...not yet. It's really not that complex though.

@drmyshotgun: Hey, thoughts on what's going on? Thoughts on my pere vote?

[Lastsurvivor]

@SB: I'll get to your case soon.
@Jal: I guess so, yeah.

@Pere: I do, actually.

Generalities: I feel that you've been hiding in the shadows this whole game. Basically, you egged things on in the beginning until you locked onto Kondi. And then...well, it's just kinda bad.

Examples of egging things on include this. Basically, egged on the scumslip. I was going to do it anyway, but there was no way you could have been sure.

I'm still confused by this...

We are not running people up to L-1, getting a claim, and doing it to someone else. That's twice today for no good reason.

Why did you make this statement...and then insist on going after Kondi?

#298 is bad.

Originally I thought it was good because I thought kondi was scum and...let's be honest, the colors were pretty. However, kondi refuted it completely. You kept on hammering home the fact that Kondi said he TvK was scum and then contradicted himself, even though he only said that in response to a yes/no question where his answer implied that he didn't totally believe TvK was scum. When Kondi explained this to you, you pretty much ignored it. It really looks like you were just trying to push a ML and ignoring the facts.

I don't have a question about that part....just explaining it for the good people of the town.

[Lastsurvivor]

You dont hunt partners on day 1. It's BS, its obviously BS and it spoils the pool. Because it allows you to do what LS has just done, he's cut the pool of people we should look at in half and tries to focus players down specific routes.

Are you referring to the whole Jal/Kondi thing? I think you're taking something simple and blowing it way out of proportion. Jal and Kondi were just my top two scum reads, so I was like "These two are scum, if I'm right I have this post all the way back from D1 to point to postgame." So many people did the same thing. E.g, townies Om and Kondi.

Also the whole argument with Jal stinks of a similar argument I did with my scum partner just recently. It's nickpicking reasons for a case. Easy to drop issues that both players know wont draw a wagon.

Jal's contradiction that I pointed out in my original post still looks bad to me. I don't think I was "nitpicking."

is the kicker though, because I did the exact same trick. I bussed my partner as another players partner and knowing that the other player will flip town I could easily drop any and all issues I had with my partner.

I might accept this is genuine town thinking, if you had done this day 2. But at the end of day 1, it screams scum.

So I'm scum because...I'm scum and you observed something that looks similar to something you did as scum? Or, whittle it down...I'm scum because I'm scum? You can't try to prove something and make the same assumption (LS is scum) as your conclusion (LS is scum). It doesn't prove anything.

FTR, what I was saying in that post was that if Kondi was scum then anything he said while he was "prophesizing" was WIFOM. If he's town, then it's good logic.

oh and this

is lovely reverse spoiled milk tactic

*hur hur aint scum stoopid killing OM that idiot would have been a great scapegoat* I'M SO FREAKING TOWNIE!

I expected Vijay to call me out on that. Hm. Well, at least someone did. Is that "Hur hur" bit at the end a direct quote?

[Lastsurvivor]

Yes I know kondi tried team hunting day 1 as well (which I was all shaking my head in disapointment over) but there is distinct difference in someone listing out pretty much every possibility and giving reasons why they think they are not or are scum teams (process) and someone who only does it for two players.

I was actually referring to this quote...

- Based on RVS, LS and Chrimi feel like scum. Just as a "called it in RVS" thing.

Which is similar to what I did.

Also, Jal's town because on reread I realized that one scum tell doesn't make a scum (he refuted the other point I made in #314) and just because his argument against me was bad doesn't make him scum. You'll have to ask him why he's being civil to me...I dunno.

No your scum because you directly tied one player to another player about to flip

knowing what the flip would be.

If I knew what the flip would be, I would have to be scum. You're assuming that I'm scum to prove that I'm scum. That. Doesn't. Work.

Now...doesn't this point also assume that Jal is scum? I.e, you're team scumhunting yourself?

re what I need to explain (aka what I'm about to quote):

FTR, what I was saying in that post was that if Kondi was scum then anything he said while he was "prophesizing" was WIFOM. If he's town, then it's good logic.

Basically, if Kondi was town, then his statement about Jal townslipping was a genuine one.
If Kondi flipped scum, we don't know what Kondi would have been trying to do with that statement. Was he trying to protect his buddy? Or was he trying to throw an innocent townie under the bus by looking like he was trying to protect his buddy? Thus, it would have been WIFOM and irrelevant.

[Lastsurvivor]

Spoiler: SB quote#1(trying to cut down post lengths, sorry mobile users...)

Again, *process* Kondi went through every player in the game in that post and gave his opinion on how they'd tie up as partners. It is honestly for the most part completely useless because most of it gets thrown out with the flip at the end of the day. It's not being focused to associate two specific players with intent.

...No, I'm only referring to the part I quoted. Not the stuff he did later on. Kondi didn't follow the "process" in that quote...he just did a "called it" sort of thing.

re scumtells on all three players: Nope. I have mixed feelings about the three of them. I.e, null to scum reads on the three of them.

Spoiler: SB quote#2

Oh right because those 3 were on the kondi wagon and you believe that both scum were on the kondi wagon. oh wait? Jal was on the kondi wagon wasnt he/she/it?

Welp, it's process of elimination. Those three are the only ones who I'm not sure about. And they were all on the kondi wagon. Thus, both scum must have been on the Kondi wagon. That's the only reason I think both scum were on there.

re Jal doing towny things: The tunnel on me felt town motivated. I don't think scum would have been so persistent. I'm sure there was more, but that's the first thing that jumps to mind.

Spoiler: SB quote#3

I got to remember this argument in future, excuse me as I go join a game as scum openly quickhammer an early wagon and when someone says I'm scummy for quickhammering I'll just quote the above rather then explaining my logic.
*Your assuming that I'm scum to prove that I'm scum! I dont need to explain why I made brash and unusual decision to you*

YES I'M WORKING WITH THE LOGIC THAT THERE WAS SCUM MOTIVATION BEHIND SAID POST. YOU'VE YET TO GIVE ME ANY OTHER SORT OF LOGIC.

Unfortunately, quickhammering is an objectively scummy act while this is only scummy because you did it in a past game. Also, I haven't provided any other sort of logic...? I've done so twice. And what's the scummy motivation?

re team hunting: But doesn't the entire point rely on Jal being my partner...? You're saying my motivation for making that post is so I could bus and then conveniently clear my partner. If Jal isn't my partner, then what's the point of making my post?

Spoiler: SB quote#4

It's a mighty big stretch to take it all the way to clearing someone. You claim the comment was more about kondi's actions as possible scum, yet you use it at the start of day 2 to clear Jal. If both Kondi and Jal are town then what does kondi flipping do to reconfirm that his suspicions are correct? He's used what he calls a townslip from the RVS. FROM RVS!!! as grounds. But thats enough for you suddenly.

Does it cross your mind that maybe...maybe Kondi was wrong? Kondi was town, hell he was blatantly town, but he was not infallible. Why do you accept kondi's notion on Jal but not his notion on my slot? He had GW down as a scum possible, but you put me in town.

Yes, it is enough for me...do you have an issue with that? Also, I didn't know that giving people town reads = clears these days. The only person who is cleared is TvK. Anyone can still lose a town read. I only said Jal was a likely town read, and that read solidified after I reread.

[Lastsurvivor]

Yup. He picked up on it and then never commented on it again. Egging things on, like I said.

[Lastsurvivor]

Spoiler: SB's post, bolded numbers added by me (sorry mobile users, again)

#1

But the comparison with how you've treated Jal falls apart because

in the same post

he goes on to explain out in detail his thinking, flawed but still processed.

#2

It's nice to be so sure of oneself. Speaking of players you are sure about, can I ask what it is my predecessor did to get such trust from you?

#3

distancing

#4

guess I do, it sort of itches at me that you take that comment to heart so much, yet you dont take any of his other comments. Kondi was suspicious of my slot, he was even voting GW at the end of day 1, but hey it's not who he suspects that matters, it's who he clears.

#5

If this was a large game, I'd probably agree with you, you can let a player sink to the background while you focus on what you suspect. but this isnt a large game, we can be put in mylo tomorrow if things keep going bad. So we dont have the luxury to rub each other's towniness, we dont have the space to risk voting alliance and declaring who's townie and who's not. the line is too thin to give that level of trust to anyone.

#1: Yes, for all the other partners he lists. Unfortunately, he never explains or details his thinking for me/chrimi (which is the one I've been referring to <.<). He literally says it was just a called it in RVS thing...and I literally said in my post that it was my "called it" team.

#2: Self vote - I don't think scum would do that. Also, he didn't know the setup, which, again, screams town to me.

#3: Oh, ok! Tell me, how are you not team hunting, again?

#4: I'm confused. Why exactly do I need to agree with

everything

Kondi says? I didn't know that, because I support one piece of a player's logic, I suddenly should be supporting every part of his logic.

#5: ...Wat. Are you just fearmongering now? I've never suggested a voting alliance. I simply stated my town reads. You're the one who's making a big deal out of them.

[Lastsurvivor]

Response to #1: ...Can you point out the other time where I said they were a team? I don't see it and I'm tempted to say you're misremembering. Anyway, I'm not sure how you can apply the "If Kondi's town then" post to this situation. It's not scummy at all considering that I only cared that Kondi was town because then I could accept his logic.

Response to #4: Because I'm able to evaluate things that other people say and see if I agree with them or not. Excluding you, Kondi and I have the same scum pool, so it's not like we disagreed on everything but Jal.

Response to #5: ...I stated the notion twice (technically once). I'm pretty sure you've stated it more times than I have at this point (sarcasm, but you get my point).

[Lastsurvivor]

(Psst. Everyone. This is not the LS/SB show. Get your rears in here.)

[Lastsurvivor]

Oh I never responded to PV's case because I'm blind.

So this is you accusing me of doing something you were going to do. Is that correct?

Did you know I was going to say it was a scumslip? If so, I need to be more subtle. But, I was more bothered by the fact that you just posted that and never commented on the situation again.

You are asking me why I made that statement when it happened twice already? And the first thing I said when I came in was should we try to break the game, and Rach said:

I know why you made the statement. It's the going after Kondi and then running him to L-1 and getting him to claim which you said we shouldn't do part that I think is scummy. If you really didn't want any more claims...wouldn't you want to lynch from those who already had claimed?

re your summary: I was wrong, but I'm not sure how that makes everything you did better.

re #449: ...Can you read my argument with SB? I've already discussed that in length...

[Lastsurvivor]

I fail to see how PV casting the first vote onto Kondi was running him to L-1 and getting him to claim, especially since this vote occurred prior to GW being ran-up.

Obviously there was no way PV could know it would lead to that, right. But why would PV say that we aren't running people up to L-1 if he was voting Kondi + actively pursuing his lynch? I would think that if PV really wanted to prevent another claim, he would have focused on those that had already claimed.

[Lastsurvivor]

Somehow I doubt you were catching scum, due to what I pointed out in my original case. You do realize that no one was attempting to break the game, right? It just happened. Also, you still haven't addressed what I really care about: If you didn't want us to run someone else up, why focus on someone else? "Because I wanted to catch scum," just doesn't cut it...because so did those that ran their scumspects up to L-1.

[Lastsurvivor]

Are you fucking kidding me?

I'm the tracker you fucking dumbasses. Nice job. <_<

[Lastsurvivor]

Gen went nowhere N1.

[Lastsurvivor]

Vijay's scum. Totally sure of it.

I'm not convinced that it's Vijay/PV though (oh I'm team hunting SB, I must be scum!!). Nor am I convinced shotgun's scum.

Really, one of my townreads is wrong. I just don't know which one. SB's argument was illogical (you can't teamhunt, but I can teamhunt!), and Jal...um...#474 looks ingenuine as fuck.

But lynch vijay tomorrow. You guys fucked up today.

Also, just note that my N1 result means nothing since Gen wasn't here so he couldn't have submitted the kill anyway. Food for thought.

[Lastsurvivor]

This game has been horrible.

Tell me about it.

You expected someone to quickhammer?

pedit: IDK it's possible. You don't play like this all the time, to be fair. And he quickhammered. Which is never smart.

It's possible. I dunno...perhaps both of my town reads were right. SB spent most of the day trying to make me doubt them. <_<

[Lastsurvivor]

(which is like one of my top five scum tells, but I didn't really bother because of things his predecessor did + my tracker investigation which I only realized after my death proved nothing.)

Really, don't expect me to be much help on the second scum, since I think my reads are too clouded by the quickhammer. Just lynch vijay tomorrow. That much is certain.

[Lastsurvivor]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I was worried I ruined everything with my post-death rant. It certainly didn't help.

HERE'S THE DEAD QT

[Lastsurvivor]

It's ok!

Scum should release the QT then...hint. :3

SB you really need to lighten up on the walls, in all seriousness.

[Lastsurvivor]

And the Shotgun hammer of LS was just plain scummy.

[Lastsurvivor]

And the Shotgun hammer of LS was just plain scummy.

But good for our team...

True. I don't think I would have been lynched if I claimed