Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

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VOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp

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Claim: Serial Killer

trololololololololo jk

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Claim: Serial Killer

trololololololololo jk

VOTE: Bitmap

Seems legit

the bro just won a game as sk

... hes a dangerous one

Damn right I'm dangerous.

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@RBD: How is AJ townish off page 1?

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@RBD: How is AJ townish off page 1?

Do you have town reads on PB and DC?

More like null for now. And you still haven't answered my original question.

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Actually, I find SS more town than most of the people here right now.

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@RBD: How is AJ townish off page 1?

Do you have town reads on PB and DC?

More like null for now. And you still haven't answered my original question.

These are more important questions and need to be answered first.

Do you think AJ is scum?

I asked first. I would like my question answered first before answering yours.

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Nope, you are going to give your read before I explain mine.

nope.avi

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Hey bro, I asked first. I would have no problem if you weren't so stubborn as well. In all honesty, I don't really get town/scum reads on anyone on 2 pages. I don't know why you get town vibes this early. But hey, just like the good old JK9++ that we played not so long ago.

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And the last person I would ever trust in this game is you.

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In all honesty, I don't really get town/scum reads on anyone on 2 pages.

Why ask only about that one then?

You also didnt answer my question about a read on AJ.

This strike my interest.

Appledash alliance is a go.

And I have that weird vibe feeling where either one of you are scum but not the other.

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Actually, I'm town. I know I'm town. Me being lynched D1 doesn't matter at all. It feels like Open 421 all over again.

VOTE: RBD

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Inte and McStab should get on this wagon.

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Lol.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DoomYoshi

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You still arent answer my question about why you only wanted to know about one of my read when apparently you had no read on any of those three, stop deflecting.

I'm just curious, bro.

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@RBD: How is AJ townish off page 1?

You still arent answer my question about why you only wanted to know about one of my read when apparently you had no read on any of those three, stop deflecting.

I'm just curious, bro.

I have to agree with Rainbowdash here; you evidently disagreed with Rainbowdash's other two reads, yet you only asked about me. Why were you curious about his read of me, specifically? Why were you so eager to jump to being lynched on Day 1 when Rainbowdash voted you?

I'm curious about you because of the whole "Appledash" comment made by RBD. I'm town. I don't have to worry about being lynched.

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mafia semantics... don't go down that road

You think I'm scum again?

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Pretty sure he means don't let me pull you into a semantics war.

Meh.

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What the hell, bitmap did you delete a post in which you claimed vanilla townie?

I don't have the power to delete posts. Why are you so certain I'm VT? I obviously claimed Serial Killer.

Is Bitmap a hydra? Even if so, the constant referral of it as a they makes my brain hurtededed.

Nope.

@RBD: So you think I'm a VT too? Why do you think I VT slipped?

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Or better yet, how did I VT slip?

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Semi-Rolefishing.

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@Siv: Why is your vote still on me then?

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For all the people who weren't in our Open 421 game, here it is:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22665 - JK9++

I'm surprised about RBD yet again going for the mass-claim idea.

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If I was a vig, I would shoot inte and RBD.

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Well that's not nice, why me?

I got dis weird gut feeling.

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Okay, I shoot RBD tonight. Sounds legit.

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Inte lives till Day 2.

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phew good thing cause i'm a d2 survivor

GUESS I'M SHOOTIN INTE TONIGHT!

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UNVOTE:

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Prodded. I'll post a response to Yoshi's question tonight.

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What parts of 176 are NOT scummy? Looking through it I literally can call him scum for at LEAST three reasons because of it, if I wanted to stretch or call out mild/player dependant tells I can tack on a couple more. It seriously may be the single scummiest post in the entire game up to this post.

Agreed.

Better than an RVS vote.

Unvote, Vote Solidstate

The writer of 176.

Voting on a counter wagon is pretty scummy... but I can't help to think that this post reminds me of me.

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So no one has a problem if I shoot RBD tonight, right?

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rbd u aren't scum again are you

Don't worry inte, I'll shoot her tonight.

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Also im not sure why bit keeps trying to get reactions since its still really obvious they are VT. Really if they claim vig for real chances are they drew SK again.

But I really am a 1-shot Bulletproof Investigation Immune Miller Vig.

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nbd ill shoot him then

Don't worry. I took Bulletproof this time.

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Sounds legit.

VOTE: D3f3nd3r

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I like the RBD wagons. Also, I thought you thought I was VT. What happened to that read?

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*twitchy eyes*

VOTE: RBD

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Can we not massclaim and not get fucked up? kthx. I'm not scum this game so I don't want to feel the pain town went through in Open 421.

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Seil is town.

VOTE: Solid

I'm lazy.

You should vote for RBD or Applejack. I think Applejack is becoming the better choice.

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Seil is town.

VOTE: Solid

I'm lazy.

You should vote for RBD or Applejack. I think Applejack is becoming the better choice.

is there a reason for either of these votes?

Mah gut!

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@Nacho: Did you see the Open 421 game by any chance?

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@RBD: Actually, can you give me that C9++ game that got fucked up because someone didn't claim right?

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@Bit - Like I told you once already, game is mostly crash lost (save first 10 pages or so before I even replaced in). I do have the green room though for that one. Basically I get NKed the first night, think they claimed day three, Hikari claims VT as cop and basically costs town the game followed by them missing a semi-complex win.

*sigh*

I've been looking at the setup for a bit and I'm trying to see how scum could break mass-claim strategy.

Alright RBD, if we were to massclaim, is today or tomorrow the best day? Also, is it possible for scum to break this strategy based on the amount of roles we get?

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Why am I town-read for you this game?

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@RBD: But I never said I was VT or not... why are you so certain?

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Bitmap: Out of curiousity, what flavor of Kool-Aid is it that you guys are drinking? Because Bitmap is scummy as hell. In the early game, Bitmap was continually contradictory, and looked awful in the exchange with Rainbow Dash. And the closest thing to content that Bitmap has been providing lately is some 1-2 line posts and a whole bunch of sheeping without making any sort of cases of his own. Like, look at the length of that iso and compare it to the amount of legitimate content within there. It's awful. I get the towntells you guys are putting forward, but they feel incredibly circumstantial to me and they just don't override the colossal waves of scumminess I'm getting here.

Open 421

Bitmap- Are there any particular posts of Apple/Rainbow's that get your gut a'twitching? Or can you provide a general feel on what makes them Gut!Scummy?

RBD is a strong player and the fact that AJ has been following RBD around makes me feel that one or the other is scum. Also, RBD is trying to pull the same shtick all over again.

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Actually, I'm starting to not like McStab this game... but I still feel like one of the ponies are scum. I'll elaborate on Asusa's reasoning tomorrow.

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Ugh, I change my mind about putting my vote on McStab.

A part of me wants to lynch him but another part tells me to go for people on his wagon.

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UNVOTE:

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Azusa, you're tunneling him so bad now.

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I was never voting for you, correct. You're still at L-1.

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And I'm interested in an Applejack lynch.

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Quote the question again. You asked a lot.

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I dislike the McStab wagon because of the speed of how fast it's forming. Also, I love how everyone is tunneling Mcstab and no one is looking at the wagon itself. With that being said,

VOTE: Applejack

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Bitmap, all you've got is speed? I can't be the only scumbag pushing it, then, if that's your problem. Spill, spill!

You've been sheeping RBD a lot as well.

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I think McStab should at least claim tier at this point. I'll hammer McStab if no one budges to the Applejack wagon or any other leading wagons.

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Yeah, we aren't lynching McStab today. I have a really good gut feeling that McStab is indeed town.

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Mcstab better not be vigged tonight or else I'm going to shit on people tomorrow.

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It feels like his Open 421 play. Anyways, I'm not role-fishing him but I have a good feel on McStab after knowing his tier claim.

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Applejack, how do you feel about RBD?

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Applejack and everyone on his wagon, give McStab one more day to live the very least.

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God, either scum is buddying so hard like in Open 421 or the claimed PRs are scum.

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Dw guys, I'll shoot Azusa Nakano tonight. It's not like she was that important in K-On!

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Did we also all forget about Nacho?

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It's okay, inte. I'm a 1 Shot Bulletproof Investigation Immune Miller Vig.

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Okay, I like the Applejack wagon. GO GO GO GO GO GO!

And I have a strong town read on inte and mcstab.

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Nah, the McStab wagon was seriously scum driven.

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Okay, if the lynch isn't going to be McStab or Applejack, who is?

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*sigh*

So last night I thought about a lot of things about this game.

I don't McStab is lying about his claim. If he is, then he's going to get lynched eventually anyways.

Same applies to Yoshi.

There's no possibility that both ponies are scum. It has to be one or the other or none. That's it. I guess I'm relating to how Greywing was buddying DLG in Open 421 and that DLG eventually flipped scum. Old game fears that kicked in which is why I was worried about Applejack.

I'm going to wait till Zabriel inputs more before looking at his alignment.

I'm having second doubts about Applejack wagon. If Applejack is indeed town, he will be a great asset and shouldn't be lynched. I've looked over Applejack's ISO and I think this wagon is bad.

Azusa is probably town or possible SK at this point. Azusa goes with mostly what the ponies say which I used to do in Open 421 as SK in order to fake townieness or just save my ass. Most likely town.

If McStab is what I think he is, then inte is probably town. Otherwise if Defender flips scum, inte might be scum due to buddying.

I'd rather keep a more active scum player alive if Applejack is indeed scum.

My case on Applejack wasn't even that great to start with. I rather look at the people on the wagons.

Give me some time to think about Defender though.

UNVOTE:

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Okay, I concluded that I like the d3f3nd3r wagon better.

VOTE: d3f3nd3r

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Alright kiddos, I believe we should do a mass-claim. I was skeptical at first due to JK9++ but C9++ has a more restricted format so it would be in our best interest to claim today.

We claim tiers first and popcorn around till everyone has said either T1/T2/VT.

Then, we have the T2 claim roles and popcorn it about and then the T1 claims happen.

So, we get the scummiest player still alive to start the tier claims.

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Not sure if I have talked about this in this game or not so... claim theory.

In this setup there are roles that cannot exist without a lower one existing first. These roles are what I have come to call second tier roles, while the ones that can exist without having two of the same letter drawn first tier roles. Using the tier system, we actually have a massive hoof up on scum for claiming because it makes it massively risky for them to claim anything but VT.

To claim in the tier system during massclaim, we start with somepony claiming one of: VT/Tier 1/Tier 2 and then popcorn from there with the rest of the game claiming between these three groups. For reference T1 is: 1 shot cop, doctor, 1 shot vig and roleblocker. T2 is: 1 shot roleblocker, mason, vig, 1 shot doctor, cop.

When all players have tier claimed, massclaim of role starts with the T2 ones claiming first and popcorning between themselves, followed by the T1 players doing the same.

From resuts we can see something like somepony who claimed 1 shot RB when there was no RB claim is confirmed scum. The forcing of T2 to claim first increases the chance of catching scum fakeclaiming due to the setup.

THE SETUP THEORY IS VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT IN THIS SETUP.

When claims/flips start coming, you NEED to look at the wiki page and under NO circumstance do you lie as town. I cannot stress these things enough, I have seen town lose this setup because somepony fakeclaimed VT as a PR and they didnt pay attention to setup. I called every single scum player and the SK from the grave QT because I just had the wiki page open while town acted like they were playing a closed setup and lost a forced win situation where the massclaim had caught all the scum.

Will let AJ lecture you on the honesty portion of this but massclaim by the tier system and done at the right time is unbeliveably crippling to scum in the C9++ setup.

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Wow.

Quit the circle jerking and realize what Applejack is saying. It's a very good idea to mass-claim. We lost 2 VTs. Thus, the probability of us hitting scum in the VT pool is much larger than it is if we lost the PRs. Also, claiming PRs help determine if scum is hiding in the PR claims which can happen. I was very skeptical of the mass-claim at first but when I learned more about the C9++ format and learned that RBD is town, you can tell that scum doesn't want the mass claim to happen. I switched wagons and held this back because I was very hesistant of what to think at Day 1.

We claim by tiers by who we think is the most scummiest and have that person claim then popcorn(pick another person) to someone else and that person claims and then popcorns and so on.

Then, the T2s claim first with the scummiest player. And vise versa for the T1 claims.

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And RBD, I'm going to try not to fuck this up this mass-claiming shtick.

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Scum knows we have one of

0-2 PRs
3-4 PRs
5-7 PRs

They dont know which right now, but they know more about the setup then we do. I think that massclaim in this setup is best based of how many VT flips occur, the more that happen the more of a killing shot for scum an early massclaim is when there are high PR occurances (note that there is some evidence to suggest mods reroll setups like these to make high roles occur more often).

Day one is probably not best, if there is dead mafia PR (not SK) then tomorrow is a decent massclaim point. If there is a mix of type deaths and no mafia death, then D3 is probably best. It really depends on the situation, I really let it go through in the other game due to curiosity more then anything else because I had a couple PRs called at that point. If a GF dies today/tonight though you 100% are massclaiming tomorrow.

Scum have a very hard time breaking this massclaim move and either requires two scum working together on a claim or a bit of luck depending on how risky they want to make one. I actually have not seen scum claim anything but VT during massclaim in this setup type using tiers (small sample size)

Next few days are going to be busy, but I can almost for sure get that reasoning up on solid sometime today.

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We'll claim tomorrow. Nacho getting lynched seems like a good start.

VOTE: Nacho

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Bitmap, I was saying we shouldn't massclaim today. Why would you include a quote saying that we shouldn't massclaim today as evidence that we should?

That doesn't make any sense.

RBD was never clear when we should massclaim if we lost 3 townies and no PRs.

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Yoshi, don't game throw please.

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ss, why you scum?

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I'm not scum and I'm not getting lynched today.

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UNVOTE:
VOTE: solidstate

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You're not going to get a wagon on me. You should get on the counter-wagon or yourself.

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Nacho's either Town or SK.

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Actually, I'm town. I know I'm town. Me being lynched D1 doesn't matter at all. It feels like Open 421 all over again.

VOTE: RBD

hi my name is bitmap and I am a VT

Sure... lets go with that.

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*everyone takes note of solid's willingness to switch off Bitmap merely because another player says "this is his meta kind of"; proceeds to also make passing remark that next strongest scumread is mcstab, coincidentally right after mcstab has spent the last three pages trying to lynch him*

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Zabriel's pretty scummy which is something we should focus on soon.

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VOTE: Zabriel

Let's do it!

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Hey, so yesterday I was rushed to the hospital because I had kidney stones. I just got discharged today so give me some time to catch up.

@Yoshi: No, I don't have alts besides my hydra with Om as Potatouhou.

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Or maybe they are telling the truth?

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I'm fine with a solidstate or Carto lynch as well. Why should we vote solid over Carto though?

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Sorry, I'll post tomorrow. I'm still feeling a bit iffy.

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Bitmap, I am waiting for your response. Why am I scum? Where is your reasoning?

I will not be around Saturday. I will post my thoughts later tonight.

PoE tbh. It's not that strong. If you have better reasons to a zab lynch over yours it would be great to hear.

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I don't think Yoshi is lying though.

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Is that a serious claim?

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And 1-shot or just Vig?

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We should also look into Azusa today... it seems like she was forgotten.

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And honestly at this point, I think we should just mass-claim since most of our PRs are exposed.

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GLaDOS is town.

I'm still curious why Azusa is town though.

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On Day One you were a complete non-factor in this game. Your most substantive post of Day One was literally at deadline.

Now that Day Two has begun you appear to be actually putting effort into the game. What changed your attitude over the Night?

Because when I realized RBD was town, I knew we had to use the mass claim strategy she laid out. And there are other reasons too which I'll elaborate once mass claiming begins.

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UNVOTE:

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DDD's in this now?

@DDD: How do you feel about mass-claiming?

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Who's going to start the popcorn after Carto gets this all sorted out? And we do tiers first?

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why the HELL would you fakeclaim vigilante as town?
why?

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@Cart: You are an impulsive 4-shot day-vig. Who do you shoot?

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Cart's most likely town or SK imo. Zab lynch looking mighty fine right about now.

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VOTE: zabriel

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Oh shit, I learned something awesome. Ooohhhh town got this in the bag imo if my calculations are correct. If they are correct, then I'll have figured out all the scum by the end of massclaim today.

Assuming all of the claims are true we know the following,

DMBB + TTT + ?? + SK + Scum + Scum + Scum = 13 players

Now we have 10 players alive since the 3 townies are dead so subtract the 3 Ts.

DMBB + ?? + SK + Scum + Scum + Scum = 10 players

If my intuition is correct, I think scum just pidgeon-holed themselves to a really bad situation.

Quick, seikops get in here and lets start this popcorn. Lynch all liars is in effect.

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I still believe we should claim in tiers first and then roles with 2nd tiers first and 1st tiers last.

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Tis why I want to go on with this mass-claim today.

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Possibly Bitmap as well, I can't tell if bitmap is really sly or really dumb.

I'm not explaining myself fully till we get the massclaiming process underway. Just think about what I said for a minute and let it sink in. There's a good reason why the 3 VTs being dead has helped us.

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People who need to mass-claim:
Carto
GLaDOS
DDD
Nacho
Zabriel
Solidstate
Bitmap

And judging by reactions, I believe Nacho, GLaDOS, and me are the last 3 townies.

Yep. I'm enjoying this game now.

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Remember I said I'll elaborate once the mass-claiming starts.

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Also, most things I said before #1005 are now false due to my realization.

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doom stop talking.

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As I said before:

Scum + SK: Solidstate, DDD, Zabriel, Carto

Since Nacho caught on, I'm going to assume he's what I think he is and the same goes for Glados.

Also, I'm going to safely say that Carto is SK due to the interactions between the players here.

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Unless Bitmap and Nacho are both roleblockers, which is outlandish.

I think it's best you stop talking for now.

@Yoshi: Are you really a doctor?

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Listen,

We know from the mass-claim that there are:

Roleblocker + 1-shot Roleblocker + Innocent Child + Doctor + Townie + Townie + Townie + ? + ? + Scum + Scum + Scum + SK = 13 Players

We lost 3 townies from yesterday right? So now we are left with:

Roleblocker + 1-shot Roleblocker + Innocent Child + Doctor + ? + ? + Scum + Scum + Scum + SK = 10 players

Now go FILL IN THE BLANKS.

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God, I'm so going to die tonight anyways so Nacho, I'm leaving you in charge of leading this plan to victory if I die tomorrow.

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RBD, I know you know what I'm up to. If I die because town is too stubborn to listen to my game-breaking plan, it's not my fault.

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I'll give you a hint. Why do I sound so confident right now?

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@Yoshi: Answer me this. Based on this game, do you believe there is an SK?

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Are you seriously bullshitting the claim on Doctor earlier?

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And McStab would not lie about a T2 role.

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God fucking damnit Yoshi....

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But good news is that only VTs were killed yesterday...

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*sigh*

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We need to put LaL into effect. Doom not taking the shot is suspicious, and Carto's supposed trap was weird as hell and didn't strike me as effective. Does anyone in here feel comfortable with either of them lasting till LyLo?

No.

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Man, is everyone here a wuss? I'm willing to start the mass-claiming if needed.

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At least my strongest town reads are McStab and Nacho.

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VOTE: DoomYoshi

I can agree to this. I seriously was hoping that Yoshi was a doctor though.

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God, I have that bad feeling that Yoshi is actually town...

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UNVOTE:

I'll deal with this later today. Something isn't right.

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Nacho's town. If I was to explain why, I'd look pretty scummy.

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Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.

At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.

VOTE: Nacho

still would love to lynch this guy too

Seconded.

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Just so we are on the same page....

@GLaDOS: What is your opinion on Nacho? Scum or Town/

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VOTE: DoomYoshi

Sorry bro, I'm still kinda iffy about having you around.

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Once I knew Mcstab was fakeclaiming, I knew Nacho had to be scum but unfortunately, I died. I thought McStab was actually telling the truth meaning that I thought Nacho was a PR/RB.

Bleh.

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And screw you, Yoshi.