Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[Cartographer]

I really don't think DY would do this. I had already claimed and lied. Why needlessly out himself? He could ride
the LaL sentiment for a day or more.

Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?

[DoomYoshi]

@DY: You didn't die at night. You didn't come out and say you were really a VT first thing Day Two, which is really the only way you could salvage your "gambit". You instead bring it up only when massclaim comes around and you risk getting caught. We don't know your alignment or role, we don't know Carto's role, so massclaim makes far less sense, particularly when it seems to be a not serious thing.

LaL is necessary, particularly when the lie would be EXACTLY what scum would do. Carto's lie isn't quite so bad, because he didn't lie when scum would normally lie, he picked a weird lie, and he retracted it instantly. It's still bad and weird and a bit scummy, but yours is textbook scum move.

I wouldn't have been outed unless there was another town PR that got "caught". Even then, I wouldn't have been outed until after he was hammered.

Yes, my defense is WIFOMy and AtEy. But if you wash the bad taste out of your mouth after being tricked, we can still move forward with today.

[zabriel]

Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.

At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.

VOTE: Nacho

[Nachomamma8]

I really don't think DY would do this. I had already claimed and lied. Why needlessly out himself? He could ride
the LaL sentiment for a day or more.

Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?

As scum, he just saw that you claimed and lied and managed to get away with it. If he were scum, he could want to hide in the VT claims instead of the PR claims, and after your claim, could have decided to risk it instead of risk both partners getting caught. But I don't necessarily believe that, and I need to do a little rereading before I decide what to do next.

Right now, my initial thought is still massclaiming. If DY is town and just switched his doctor claim to a townie claim, we could be catching scum slipping right now as long as NO ONE ELSE LIES. But seriously, read RBD's posts about people lying about claims in this setup because it literally fucks everything up.

[Nachomamma8]

Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.

At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.

VOTE: Nacho

still would love to lynch this guy too

[DoomYoshi]

RBD specifically says that PRs should not claim VT. Nothing about the other way around.

[Bitmap]

Nacho's town. If I was to explain why, I'd look pretty scummy.

[Bitmap]

Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.

At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.

VOTE: Nacho

still would love to lynch this guy too

Seconded.

[zabriel]

IF you were to explain why you'd look pretty scummy. Uhm, okay, that makes sense.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

1.)

Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?

His play is poor, but I don't have a firm opinion on his alignment. There are also a few factors concerning the set-up that will influence my opinion of him, but that would require mass-claiming.

That said, Ah'm very much disliking DoomYoshi's constant role-hunting. He essentially tried to get Bitmap to confirm/deny being a Vanilla Townie on Day One; he claimed Doctor (which may have been testing the water for real Doctors in case he ended up getting lynched) on Day One; and now he is insinuating the game has Masons. It constantly feels like he is trying to dip his finger into the water to see what is floating around, while at the same time arguing that mass-claiming is bad for the Town and that players suggesting it are therefore scummy.

2.)

I am concerned at the "LAL" arguments being thrown around. It is an easy (read: lazy) argument to make. If you believe somebody is scum because they lied, say so. But lynching somebody on the principle that they lied -- even if you think they are Town -- is not scumhunting.

3.)

zabriel, what is your opinion of me?

4.)

zabriel, at the start of Day Two you assumed DoomYoshi's claim was "legit" because he was alive. Did it occur to you that a fake-claiming scum would have an even greater chance of surviving the night seein' as there would be one less possible scum team who would want to kill him at night?

5.)

zabriel, why did you start Day Two with the following "factoid":

We know that at least 2/3 of the Applejack wagon was town.

Are you disappointed that nobody has picked up on this potential topic? Was there a reason you did not give an

opinion

along with this statement?

6.)

DoomYoshi, why did you assume you were protected on Night One?

[seilkops]

Sup guys, I'll read tonight and drop a post tomorrow in school. A lot I need to catch up in here.

[Bitmap]

Just so we are on the same page....

@GLaDOS: What is your opinion on Nacho? Scum or Town/

[McStab]

@Glados: Lynch All Liars may be lazy, but it's lazy because it's necessary. DoomYoshi's lie makes absolute sense as scum, his behaviour is scummy, and what in the hell is preventing anyone else in this game from claiming whenever they get put on L-1 and then pushed down?

Also I still am against the massclaim. Chances are we've got some more PRs still out there and with all the confusion going on, the fact we have three great candidates for a lynch (Zabriel, DoomYoshi or Carto; Solid has since gone down on my most wanted lynch list because he isn't acting like an idiot) and the fact that right now claiming means jack shit because everyone decided that they'll let people get away with blatant lies under the pretenses of retarded gambits.

So yeah, don't massclaim, lynch one of either zabriel (who's scummy overall behaviour leads me to doubt he's town) or one of the fakeclaimers (preferably DY; Carto's fakeclaim isn't quite so bad), and sheep McStab to victory.

[DoomYoshi]

6.)

DoomYoshi, why did you assume you were protected on Night One?

6) Addressed in 910.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

2.) I am concerned at the "LAL" arguments being thrown around. It is an easy (read: lazy) argument to make. If you believe somebody is scum because they lied, say so. But lynching somebody on the principle that they lied -- even if you think they are Town -- is not scumhunting.

Well personally I'm not in favor of LAL; I'm in favor of lynching this specific liar.

[Cartographer]

Why him over me?

I have some things to say but they will come later today. Probably tonight im going to a birthday party.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Why him over me?

I have some things to say but they will come later today. Probably tonight im going to a birthday party.

Because I can see the town motivation in your play directly and while it was stupid it was the sort of momentary stupid town players might engage in; his is a large pervasive stupid that makes more sense as a scum con.

[zabriel]

Hmm, GLaDOS.

My opinion of you is based on my opinion of Applejack. Applejack tried to offer as much the process as she could before leaving, which seems more of a town thing to do in my opinion. I'll assume town.

The link to the statement doesn't actually link to the game. It links to a Pokemon webcomic. I don't remember exactly (or actually saying that, but I don't want to check now), but I think my thought process was something like if he were fake-claiming the other scum faction would have nailed him, but since he didn't die each faction believed the claim and assumed that the other faction would target DY. It didn't occur to me that he could be scum and the opposite faction could have bought the claim and assumed that the other would get him, or even not bought it and just left them around to thin out town numbers and have somebody to drive the lynch toward on the next day.

On Applejack's wagon it was kind of a stray thought about how her wagon had been town-driven and with a dead VT and an IC. It was less a comment about Apple's guilt or innocence as it was about McStab. I felt that McStab would be disinclined to leave himself as the sole unaccounted for member of a particular wagon.

[zabriel]

EBWOP: And therefore less likely to be scum.

[DoomYoshi]

WARNING: INCOMING SCUMMY MOVE

VOTE: zabriel

There we go, hopping onto the nearest counterwagon.

Anyways, I think McStab is just bulldogging at this point. DDD is straight up lying (it doesn't make sense coming from a scum perspective unless you think my plan was to start a giant WIFOM wheel). Solidstate is follow-along scum? Not sure how I stand on solid right now. I could still be persuaded either way.

Carto, I would like you to elaborate on the following post:

I have a problem with Rainbow's recent post detaling McStab's demise or possible plan of actions. First, is that not the move that McStab did to Apple? Predicting her vote based on previous posts and play? Second, even if there is a distinction (which I doubt) why would you detail the logic behind McStab's alignment based on deaths tonight?

I am not going to elaborate the second until after Rainbow posts.

RBD won't have a chance to post, so you may as well clarify what you were going for here.

[yabbaguy]

Vote Count:

10 alive, 6 to lynch

DoomYoshi (3): McStab, solidstate, Debonair Danny DiPietro
zabriel (3): Nachomamma8, Cartographer, DoomYoshi
Nachomamma8 (2): seilkops, zabriel

Not Voting: GLaDOS, Bitmap

Deadline: October 19, 23:59 EDT (GMT-4)

[Nachomamma8]

(it doesn't make sense coming from a scum perspective unless you think my plan was to start a giant WIFOM wheel).

"hey, I'm gonna be caught in the PR claims, so I'm pretty fucked for today.
oh wait, Cartographer just got away with rescinding a claim. Maybe I will too!"

I don't even know if you're scum or not yet, but I absolutely hate how you act like everyone calling you scum are completely out of line. It's Umbrage scumtactics 101, pretty much.

[solidstate]

Yeah, he called me 'follow along scum' for... placing a vote on a liar on my very first post after the lie was revealed? OH HOW SCUMMY OF ME.

I agree about the timing. If you go back and look at the posts from Glad and DDD, as well as Bitmap's strong push for the massclaim, DY's un-claim follows those. It reads to me like he felt the massclaim coming and wanted to get off his claim on his own rather than being caught on it.

[solidstate]

Er, follows those posts from Glad and DDD placing themselves on the pro-massclaim side, that is.

[DoomYoshi]

(it doesn't make sense coming from a scum perspective unless you think my plan was to start a giant WIFOM wheel).

"hey, I'm gonna be caught in the PR claims, so I'm pretty fucked for today.
oh wait, Cartographer just got away with rescinding a claim. Maybe I will too!"

I don't even know if you're scum or not yet, but I absolutely hate how you act like everyone calling you scum are completely out of line. It's Umbrage scumtactics 101, pretty much.

I understand where they are coming from. You are the one that brought up that having 3 or 4 Ts is statistically normal though. How can you now say I would be caught in PR claims, thinking they are unlikely?

Also, if you look at the timing a bit closer, I was still pushing a lynch on carto, so I wouldn't describe him as having "just got away" with anything.

I would call those both misreps, but I am in enough hot water as it is, so I don't feel like pissing people off.