Open 437: Town of Semi-Nightless Plots (Game Over)

[greygnarl]

This is me not RVSing

Vote:Seilkops

for trying to form an early wagon on Sisterman.

If you were RVSing you wouldn't have put the third vote on someone.

[greygnarl]

This is me not RVSing

Vote:Seilkops

for trying to form an early wagon on Sisterman.

If you were RVSing you wouldn't have put the third vote on someone.

Is their an RVS handbook? Nobody's voting you, and I definitely need to adhere to the strict RVS rules so UNVOTE:
VOTE: Greygnarl

Are you being serious?
You come in and say that you are RVSing but you place the third vote on someone.
You come in and say you are RVSing but quote a post that could be considered scummy. (BTW I don't think it's scummy, just sayin it could be taken that way.)

Then when I vote you, you OMGUS me?

[greygnarl]

@Seilkops, I could see where people might think Sisterman was being scummy because he was being kind of ridiculous but I don't think it looks scummy because I don't normally read scum on people who make a big deal out of themselves.

You need to go back and look at what you posted, because you are constantly contradicting yourself.

[greygnarl]

Time for reads:

Sisterman: Likely town. I don't see scum drawing that kind of attention early on or trying to rush us out of RVS on the first post. Plus, I honestly think that's a great way to play the reaction test.

Greygnarl:

Null-leaning-town. He pointed out the things wrong with Seil's "RVS" play, but this could be a distancing ploy. I'll keep an eye out on the GG/Seil connection.

Seilkops: Probably scum, but could be making town mistakes. It just seems too easy to believe right now that Seil has scummy reasons to make those kinds of mistakes early on. I could be wrong and someone please correct me if I am.

Funkybike: Leaning town. He attempts to quell the exchanges going on at the time of his second post. Sounds like an attempt to get us to make a unified scumhunting effort. But he still needs to tell us what he sees.

Tech:

Probably town. Going for Seil since Seil reacted strangely to Sisterman's opening attack is a good move.

Cheery Dog: Null-leaning-town. Two posts, one with a vote on SM and one with an unvote. Though his note on Seil's "reaction test within a reaction test" seems like a reasonable observation.

andrew94: Null. One post so far to cover his thoughts and seems to want his questions answered before he continues reading.

Voidedmafia: Leaning town. Questions SM's attack with a valid point, but also makes a good note about the GG/Seil bit still going on (When I read "different reasons than you think" given the circumstances, I'm thinking the best reason is distancing.)

And that covers introductory reads on everyone that's here. As there's more reason to believe in his scumminess than anyone else right now, let's turn up the pressure.

UNVOTE: Mr. K
VOTE: Seilkops

In bold you say I might be distancing but when Tech did the same thing you call it a good play.

I agree with you on Sisterman i explained that in the last post.

Your read on Seil might be right but I can see a scum going for an early bandwagon and calling it RVS. Unless he can put a post together that doesn't contradict or backtrack I don't think he's worth keeping around even if he is town though. But don't get me wrong, I still think that he is scum.

[greygnarl]

God that last paragraph makes no sense.
In English:
-I agree that Seil might be making town mistakes
-I still think he's scum
-If he doesn't stop stumbling around he will be useless in Lylo so I won't be too disappointed if he turns up as town.

Pedit:I was talking to Seil.

[greygnarl]

In Post 17 he says he's RVSing.
In Post 31 he says he was fishing for a reaction.

In Post 21 he says I'm his #1 scum suspect
In Post 33 he says he was once again fishing for a reaction.

I will not buy fishing for a reaction as an excuse if you say that's what you were doing every time someone calls you out on a bad post.

[greygnarl]

@VoidedMafia I thought for some reason that you thought I was talking about you. My bad.

[greygnarl]

For the reaction, like I said. Sisterman's post looked like it was made to get reactions, so I wanted to see what I could get from it.

So you're placing a reaction test on a reaction test? I find that to be a strange reaction, though I guess this game is made of that type of thing, though if your reaction test is being questioned and it needs to come out as having been a reaction test, then it's not a very good reaction test is it?

UNVOTE: sisterman

I'm a little scared to respond to that, since I can barely read it. I could be answering to anything.
But, I'll go ahead and take a shot at it.
I was hoping Greygnarl would give me the reasons for why he thought Sister's post wasn't scummy,

but he never answered.

Instead, Sister jumped on, then Tech, and a wagon developed on me.

I respond to you here.

@Seilkops, I could see where people might think Sisterman was being scummy because he was being kind of ridiculous but I don't think it looks scummy because I don't normally read scum on people who make a big deal out of themselves.

You need to go back and look at what you posted, because you are constantly contradicting yourself.

It came out jumbled but what I was trying to say was what PG said.

Sisterman: Likely town. I don't see scum drawing that kind of attention early on or trying to rush us out of RVS on the first post.

In Post 17 he says he's RVSing.
In Post 31 he says he was fishing for a reaction.

In Post 21 he says I'm his #1 scum suspect
In Post 33 he says he was once again fishing for a reaction.

I will not buy fishing for a reaction as an excuse if you say that's what you were doing every time someone calls you out on a bad post.

Dude. What's the point of reaction fishing if I tell you that I'm reaction fishing. And yeah, you are still my top suspect. The reason for this, like I said earlier, is because of your covering yourself on Sistermans post. I don't like that type of covering of ones self, as I do the same thing whenever I play scum.
Post 31 and 33 are about the same things! I don't know if we're not understanding each other,

but I've only reaction fished once.

Let's get this clear now.

When I "RVSED' Sisterman, that was reaction fishing. People keep asking me about the same post, so that's why I have the same answer. It was reaction fishing. Just to make it a little clearer.
It was reaction fishing
It was reaction fishing
It was reaction fishing

First off, I know why you wouldn't say you are reaction fishing but the point is I don't think you were reaction fishing, only using that as an excuse.

Now for the bolded. If this post is to be believed than you only reaction fished once. If you go back and look at Post 31 you say you were reaction fishing Sisterman and in Post 33 you say you are reaction fishing me. Contradicting yet again.

Pedit:I was saying that I could've understood your vote if you had said Sisterman looked scummy but instead you said you were RVSing. Even though I don't think that post was scummy I could see where someone might think it was.

[greygnarl]

I don't remember typing nothing, what the hell.

That happens if you start to type a reply and then go back and get a quote.

[greygnarl]

I respond to you here.

In post 40, greygnarl wrote:
@Seilkops, I could see where people might think Sisterman was being scummy because he was being kind of ridiculous but I don't think it looks scummy because I don't normally read scum on people who make a big deal out of themselves.

You need to go back and look at what you posted, because you are constantly contradicting yourself.

I honestly missed that, but in any case, I was more interested in what you had to say

before

Sister and Techno jumped in. That's not your fault since you probably logged of, but not a whole lot you can do about it.

Yeah, I agree with your reasoning on why Sistermans post wasn't scummy, but I still think

you're

scum. It's part my reaction to your covering, and part dislike on how unclear we are with each other.

Now for the bolded. If this post is to be believed than you only reaction fished once. If you go back and look at Post 31 you say you were reaction fishing Sisterman and in Post 33 you say you are reaction fishing me. Contradicting yet again.

No. I voted Sisterman for reactions, and got one when you replied. I then continued my interactions with you, in order to get a better read on you. That's just one reaction fish.

You're starting to make more sense now, I thought you meant you were trying to get a reaction out of Sisterman.

Not sure about you being scum now, you're starting to seem too smart than to try to form an obvquicklynchwagon as scum. It still seems like you kind of freaked out when people started voting for you though because none of your posts made much sense.

[greygnarl]

BTW my vote is staying where it is. He has not cleared himself but rather started climbing out of the hole he is in.

[greygnarl]

Understandable. Do you agree with my stance that seil is starting to look more town?

[greygnarl]

I'm no longer seeing seilkops as scum. He was starting to make more sense and not make stumbling posts. Now he's lashing out at everyone and everything and that does not seem like something a scum would do. Worth noting that I played Open 438 with seil and he was lurker scum.

Unvote

I don't have any reads right now except for

Sisterman:Town
Seilkops:Leaning Town

Maybe a reread will yield up something.

[greygnarl]

Thoughts after reread.


Andrew: Hasn’t said enough to get a read on him. Null.

Cheery Dog: He made a few attacks on seil for the same reasons I did, and also realized that seil was just unclear about who he was reaction fishing. However, Post 64 and Post 74 both go after me seil for saying he would lynch a VI D3 when I said I would lynch a VI anyday. (BTW I no longer think seil is VI) Overall his post seem like they weren’t well thought out. Null.

Funkybike: Hasn’t said much accept telling Sisterman, seil and I to lay off each other when we were having a perfectly legitimate debate. Null. Maybe he needs to be prodded?

Mr. K: Null.

ProsecutorGodot: Makes good reads and reasonable posts. He hasn’t attacked anybody yet though. Might need to stick his neck out there some more. Leaning town.

Seilkops: Started out bad but has since redeemed himself. Read my other posts. Leaning town.

Sisterman: Makes a big ruckus right out of the door. I just can’t see scum drawing that kind of attention to themselves. His later posts actually are productive. Town.

Techno: Makes good points in his posts, but has only been going after seilkops so I can’t get a good read. Null.

Voidedmafia: Has spent the whole game defending seil and chainsawing those who attack him.
Possible scenario:
-Scum sees seil wagon forming.
-Decides to be the only person who defends him.
-Earns big town points upon lynch and flip.

Vote:Voidedmafia

[greygnarl]

Do you have reads, comments, or anything? It seems you only appeared when I mentioned you name.

[greygnarl]

*your*

[greygnarl]

Sorry for the inactivity. I've been busy. No time to reread now.

Will be V/LA until tomorrow afternoon or evening

[greygnarl]

I'm back

I'm no longer seeing seilkops as scum. He was starting to make more sense and not make stumbling posts. Now he's lashing out at everyone and everything and that does not seem like something a scum would do. Worth noting that I played Open 438 with seil and he was lurker scum.

Isn't lashing out at everyone and everything the same as flailing? Which is scummy, I might add.

IMO flailing is trying to look like your playing the game but giving weak reasons while lashing out at everyone is you being angry and just yelling at people for being retarded. Not something a scum is likely to do.

Don't see the case against Voidedmafia.

Don't see the connection between TeChNoWC and ProsecutorGodot and don't see either of the two as scum.

My vote stays, especially after

how funkybike1 hopped onto the TeChNoWC wagon without providing any reasons for it.

Agreed that was scummy

Unvote
Vote:funkybike1

Voidedmafia: This is about when I started to get suspicious. Leaning scum.

Because...?

Still haven't answered this, Funky.

Please do answer. I think Voided could be scum but not for this post. While your at it answer why you hopped on an easy bandwagon for no clear reason other than meh.

[greygnarl]

Wait, why did you even--oh, right.

Voidedmafia: Has spent the whole game defending seil and chainsawing those who attack him.
Possible scenario:
-Scum sees seil wagon forming.
-Decides to be the only person who defends him.
-Earns big town points upon lynch and flip.

Vote:Voidedmafia

So...you find the fact that I find the attacks on Seil to not be true and that some of said attacks are rather fallacious to be a problem? I mean, where'd ya get this from?

Answer, boy.

Not what I said at all. I said that you could've seen a seil lynch as inevitable and decided to look town. Far-fetched I know but after looking at seil all game there wasn't much to go on. I was "reaction fishing" as you like to say.

What happened to all the votes on me? I think we should look closely at the people who jumped off my wagon.
GG is still scum IMO, but I bet we could find his partner in that. Plus GG's not giving me too much to read, so I don't want to go and push a wagon on him without asking him some questions.

I'll answer whatever questions you have. Reason I jumped off is because your anger seemed very genuine when people(myself and others) were not understanding you.

[greygnarl]

@GG

How do you feel about the case on Tecno, and who do you think we should look at?

Not sure that I understand the case tbh.

CES quotes a post that apparently makes Techno scum. It makes no sense even in context.
I guess I must be slow but since everyone else gets it, could someone explain it to me?

Still don't understand Funkybike's vote which looks like he's sheeping CES.

If you make it clear why Techno's post is scummy I could get onboard with a lynch of him. His play thus far hasn't been obvtown.

BTW I have only two definite townreads, Sisterman/CES and seilkops.

[greygnarl]

Can one of you explain how Techno looks scummy from that post. I feel really stupid

[greygnarl]

Not you mister random vote. I'm asking CES and Voided because they seem to have an obvious reason.

[greygnarl]

Ok. I don't feel as stupid now.
I guess I see where you're coming from. I thought he made good points at the time but I guess they were more of him just continuing my line of thought and getting on the wagon at a time where a seilkops lynch looked inevitable. BTW how are you so sure Voided is town? Waht do you think of my case against him.

I still feel like funky is a better lynch. He sheeped you immediately. Has given no reasons for doing anything and appears to make a tiny post whenever his name is mentioned.

[greygnarl]

not done reading yet

but

BTW I have only two definite townreads, Sisterman/CES and seilkops.

Grey looks townish (scumhunting is the best town tell for newbies), so no.

he's not a newbie

no real newbie would say the word "definite" ever

stop applying newbie tells to him

First off I am a newbie. This is my second game. Secondly, just because I am a newbie doesn't mean I'm stupid. I can form a definite townread based on what I have seen from reading through other games and I can understand lingo and slang by once again reading other games and by google searching.

the queue has nothing to do with logical ability

that's the main problem with newbies

it's not because they don't know how to play

it's that they don't know how to think correctly

(oh no! Hiraki is damning other ways of thinking! he's such a toolbag)

Reading through other games has helped me learn how to think.(I hope)

no real newbie would say the word "definite" ever

Why wouldn't real newbies use that word? It doesn't magically appear in your vocabulary once you have gained experience.

um yes it does

because newbies take everything seriously especially the word definite

ex:

Hiraki: He's a definite townie for me

newbie: AH HA! YOU KNOW HE'S A TOWNIE! THEREFORE YOU'RE SCUM!!!!!!

classic case scenario that was avoided here.

anyway

let's start

post 18 like confirms that greynarl isn't a newbie

what the fuck is wrong with you idiots

Is their an RVS handbook? Nobody's voting you, and I definitely need to adhere to the strict RVS rules

So if your vote

wasn't

RVS, then what was the point of it?

You guys do realize that insulting each other will only help the scum?

thank you for this glorious contribution

I'm just going to ignore Sisterman until CES comes in because he's annoying as fuck

You knew to this site?

you new to grammar?

Compliments on your reaction grab.

Funky, any reads? Want to lay some thoughts down on current events other than being diplomatic?

from what I saw on Page 7 from Funky, I'm calling Funky/TeChNoWc a town/scum fight(not sure which is which mind you)

seikops needs to die first though

we can discuss it while he dies though

if you want

I figured Sister was going for a reactionary post with

yes because making a post like that is totally meaning that he's not scum

like there is absolutely no scum-affiliated reason to do that

oh wait

there is

So you're placing a reaction test on a reaction test?

welcome to the point of lolreaction tests

they give you

(drumroll)

nothing

(computer is about to die, will finish later--around page 3ish with Cherry's "bad" post[not sure if actually bad])

Pretty much no chance of a seilkops lynch now.

[greygnarl]

Sorry some of the post was lost.

Just because his reaction tests didn't really get anything done doesn't mean he was scum. It's his later reactions when people were not understanding him that you need to look at.

[greygnarl]

Alright people here are my thoughts on what 's been going on since I posted.
Hiraki: Being a dick but not necessarily scum.
Mr. K: I get what you mean about not posting but even if nothings going on say something to keep the game moving.
Techno: Never understood the wagon against him. His response looks good I guess.
Funky: Lynch please.

[greygnarl]

it's that your whole "agreeing with reasoning idea" is leading to different conclusions just because it's different people but the same idea

I was consistent with both people. For both GG and Tech I agreed with their read on Sisterman. I put Tech as leaning town for it, because it's all I had to go for with him. I don't like to put people on null, unless they've truly posted nothing.
For GG, I already thought he was scum. Just because I agree with one idea that a scum had, does not mean I have to put them down as town. I had multiple reason already to think GG was scum, the fact that we both thought Sister was town was not going to hugely affect my read on GG in any way possible.

Also, nobody really went out and said "Sister is scum for this post", so the fact that I agreed with GG on Sister's towniness, when going after Sis would have been a bad move at that stage of the game (I think we were already 3 pages in, scum would've had to go after Sis right after his post to try and get a wagon on him) really does nothing for my read on him. If you really wanna be that nitpicky, fine.

GG I give you +.001 town points for sharing a read with me.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

Also, Hiraki your being really bullheaded. There is no chance of a Seil lynch. Say it with me, there is

no

chance of a seil lynch.

[greygnarl]

We're 3 votes from a funky lynch though.

@Seil, I don't think I'm riding your D but rather trying to shove Hiraki's down his thoat.

[greygnarl]

Goddamn I din't even see that shit funky. Lynch this guy please. He's at L-2 actually.

[greygnarl]

Cog man, lynch this guy.

Funky, lynch yourself, you obviously don't want to play anymore.

[greygnarl]

@seilkops
The useless post would be consistent with his earlier play and might make people think that if he's doing it so close to a lynch, he might be town after all. Then after reconsidering the situation he would give in a little bit and come out of his way to post something a bit more useful. Maybe my mindset is wrong but I really can't see an actual town doing this

unless he really didn't care about playing anymore.

This.

@Hiraki So you think Techno is scum? You quoted a post that happened right after RVS.

On Techno, Since CES posted his orignal case what has he done that looks scummy. I've been paying more attention to the stupider side of the game.

[greygnarl]

For clarification:
I said I wouldn't mind if seil flipped scum. This was back when he was acting stupid IMO.

He said you shouldn't lynch the VI until D3 at the earliest because of the semi-nightless setup.

Nobody called seil a VI. He inferred correctly that I thought he was acting like a VI.

That is in the past. IMO, it has no relevance since my read on seil has completely changed.

LYNCH FUNKY!

[greygnarl]

Hiraki, can you make a list of reads? I have no clue what you're thinking. Or talking about for that matter.

[greygnarl]

Funky=Needs to die.

@PG How can you read so much into Hiraki? I see him as town but only because I can't see a scum being so bullheaded. I can't tell what the hell he is thinking at all.

[greygnarl]

Mr. K looks pretty town to me. His anger at Hiraki not scumhunitng seems genuine.

On another note will someone please hammer funky? Once he flips I'll do a reread.

[greygnarl]

Funky is being stupid. He keeps showing up to make one sentence posts parroting other users. He is overplaying the VI card and in general looks scummy.

@CES Vote Funky and I will look at Techno.

Also summarize the case against him. Since you first made his case how have his other posts looked? Every post you make just adds a little more. Please make one comprehensive post.

[greygnarl]

I thought a flip is when the mod tells you what the persons role was when they die. So someone could flip scum, flip town, flip serial killer, etc.

I could be wrong.

[greygnarl]

V/LA till tuesday

[greygnarl]

VOTE: Hiraki

Why?

I believe I already explained most of my thoughts on Day 1. After that Hiraki decided to abandon his only scum read and vote Techno pretty much out of nowhere. I find that's more scum than town.

You're voting him for sarcasm? Lolwut.

The post before that vote if you want - I am also open to a techno vote, but from what I've seen, I think Hiraki is the better one of the two.

Can't post much today

Pretty sure Voided is scum, mostly for intense parroting of CES without knowing what for and wishy washy reads

; and now all of a sudden he wants off the wagon. Will examine more closely when I get time.
I get andrew's post about seil, not sure why no one else did. Seil's reaction looked like he was going for a townslip = possibly fabricated. Didn't like the quickhammer yesterday either, but meh.

Anyway,

Vote: VoidedMafia

for now

All these are my thoughts. Techno, what do you think of the case against you? I'm interested. Could vote Hiraki, Voided or maybe Techno IF SOMEONE WILL EXPLAIN THE FUCKING CASE. I can't see but everybody else does. Oh wait, they don't they're sheeping Techno like there's no tomorrow.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

[greygnarl]

sheeping CES I mean.

Also I want CES to explain, not one of the sheep.

CES I could vote you too. You're asking people to sheep you but giving no evidence.

Don't think I didn't notice you too PG. Sheep vote is bad.

CES is not god.

[greygnarl]

Not sure who to vote. Voided made a lot of sense just now but has otherwise looked scummy. PG while sheeping hasn't really done anything scummy.

After looking at the four poss I can see the case. A lot of techno's posts look pretty bad but I could see a town making them too. CES is a bit too confident in his read on Techno.

UNVOTE:

[greygnarl]

My opinions still stand. You just responded really well so not sure where my vote should be. Since CES came into the game you have been sheeping him.

[greygnarl]

Was gonna ask why you went back so early, though looking at the context it makes some sense.

why not?

Vote: Techno

before this you clearly hadn't even thought of Techno being scum but then you jump on the idea after CES tells you too. You give no evidence accept that it makes sense based on context and CES gave you one 1 sentence post.

@Cheery, I don't think any one of Techno's posts look bad but his overall manner after being accused strikes me as odd. He cleverly avoids the case against him for the most part and when he does talk about his defense is pretty bad. Also check the posts that CES linked when I asked him for evidence.

I guess it's pretty clear when I look again. Still think Voided is pretty scummy. l might have a whole new case on him but will save it for after we lynch Tech. It will also be nice to have CES actually playing the game too.
VOTE: Techno

[greygnarl]

I'm not really sure what you're asking.

[greygnarl]

You said you saw where CES was coming from when he was pushing Tech on Day 1. Now you don't want Tech's wagon rolling. Why is that?

Dude, I'm voting Techno. Before I thought that Voided was a better lynch because he was IMO just sheeping Techno but now he's actually being useful.

[greygnarl]

One thing I'd like to note is that when I'm changing my opinions it's usually because I'm trying to get the game moving and because I don't really have a definite scumread. When I thought you were scum I stayed on your wagon a while and when I jumped on funkybike I rode him all the way to lynch. now I'm less sure and most of my scumreads are making valid points so it's harder to stick to one person.

that being said, Hiraki, andrew, and Mr.K need to be more active. it seems like there are only a few people actually playing. BTW actually playing is not making crap posts.

Cheery, anything to add about the relevant things going on? Namely my voteswitching and the Technocase. If you think we should lynch someone else maybe you should try to get others to think the same way. Lurking doesn't accomplish anything.

[greygnarl]

Real quick, Cheery you're right I forgot about Techno but you had posted right above me so saying you need to post more would be really dumb.

[greygnarl]

besides that. Some real good content from Cheery. I could see a Hiraki Techno scumteam based on his reasoning. Will want to look more indepth though.

[greygnarl]

Hiraki, appearing at the sound of your name seems kind of like lurker scum to me.

VOTE: Hiraki

[greygnarl]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hiraki

[greygnarl]

Goddamn it.

@Mod I'm voting Hiraki

[greygnarl]

@Mod I'm voting Hiraki

[greygnarl]

@Mod I'm voting Hiraki

Thank god.

[greygnarl]

Sorry I derped with the tags.

[greygnarl]

andrew if you only have time to make a couple posts and they're not constructive at all then why are you even playing? I only make a few posts on schooldays(most days) and mine at least have content.

[greygnarl]

VOTE: Techno
My vote on Hiraki was pure pressure. He did go after me a little but it wasn't anything other than his usual self.

Seil, you wagon on andrew looks bad. You're turning pretty much nothing into a case. If Tech flips scum then I'm coming after you. The only reason my vote's not on you right now is because of your supertowness early. Saying you're willing to vote Tech when pressured looks like a lame attempt to distance.

[greygnarl]

@seil Your case on andrew doesn't really prove he's scum, just that he hasn't been reading at all and should probably replace out if he doesn't want to play.

Clarification:
415 You make a case on andrew.

416 and 421 accuse you of trying to counterwagon.

422 You say "I mean, I'll vote Tech.........."

Do you see how it looks like you're making the lamest of all attempts to not be super connected.

It's clear that the Techno wagon isn't disbanding so saying you'll hammer but not actually doing it looks really scummy. The fact that you've had Techno as a townread the whole game and now are just saying you'll hammer him when people come after you looks bad too.

Even though I thought you were or sure town after the initial wagon on you I'm getting really suspicous.

Technoscum=seilscum in my eyes.

[greygnarl]

Haven't read to factcheck this but PG is saying that seil is calling people who argue his cases scum. He says nothing about defending his cases.

[greygnarl]

I feel like the game is slowing down. I would be willing to reconsider my Techno vote if it got the game moving.

If everybody puts together a willing to lynch list and CES actually stops tunneling then maybe we could get something done.

Willing to lynch(besides Tech):
Voided
I know this sounds really scummy but I woold be willing to lynch Mr. K or andrew94 so it lowers the votecount needed to lynch and eliminates lurkers.

[greygnarl]

I read your initial case on andrew and thought it was decent but that you were stretching a lot of null-tell lurking into a scumcase.

andrew's cases look poorly put together so I don't go back and read them.

I've said I'm willing to vote andrew to get the game moving/eliminate less active players and maybe if you're right we'll catch some scum too.

VOTE: andrew94 Noone's going to hammer Techno

[greygnarl]

Because he knows he'll never get a wagon on me

because his case on me has already been stripped to nothing and he only has some sort of gut read on me?

This, my read on Voided is mostly gut and he's been making very town posts.

Mr. K, switching my vote even if it looks like it accomplishes nothing gets reactions. I've got one out of you already so it's working. Would you care to do something besides camping your vote and asking questions? It might make the game more enjoyable for everybody.

[greygnarl]

Yeah Mr. K, if you are so sure Hiraki is scum then why don't you try to convince everybody that he is scum. Just saying refer back to my other posts is a good way to get your case ignored.

In my eyes your vote is your only weapon. if it just sits on somebody doing nothing then it becomes less scary. mnay people will reacct in totally different ways when votes pile up on them.

[greygnarl]

@Voided, my gut said you were scum, then you acted scummy, then you said good things that made me doubt my read. I wouldn't say that I have only a gut read. Gut and previous scummy play compounded with a failure to respond to Techno's case makes me want to vote you even more.

He asked why you can't explain CES's case even though you agree with it.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

Yeah I throw my vote around a bit too much guys. That's how I play sorry.

[greygnarl]

If Voided flips town then I am gonna lynch Techno. I have a scumread on him but he made good points and gut wins a lot with me.

Hiraki: if your vote is not for Voided or Tech then you need to reconsider your need to play this game.

[greygnarl]

Hiraki no lynch doesn't benfit town. You better be hammerin if seil doesn't.

[greygnarl]

Seil didn't go for the lynch he didn't believe in. That's fine, it seems. I didn't go for the lynch I didn't believe in. Now I'm scummy for it? The town thing to do was hammer someone I thought was town and could still help us out? Probably would still be in this position regardless of whether or not I hammered. But if you want to go ahead and see if scum take the easy way out, then lynch me. Talk it out first, though. Quicklynches tend to cause people to overlook things as seen in Open 438.

If Tech still needs to die, though,

VOTE: TeChNoWc

I was in Open 438!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PG what is this shit? I thought you "had Techno made out wrong"? You pretty much forced the no lynch which was terrible.

Now, you're saying that you knew Techno was scum along. If that's the case why did you unvote him to begin with?

You're getting really contradictory.
VOTE: ProsecutorGodot

[greygnarl]

BTW PG just made the scummiest move of the game so far. I don't see how town would go no lynch in this situation at all.

I can still go Voided and then techno if Voided town but this shit is bullshit. No lynch is bullshit is antitown.

[greygnarl]

He did vote Techno yesterday IIRC.

[greygnarl]

Prod received. Sorry, I don't have time to respond in detail right now. I'm looking back at what I've missed and

@Tech: Point taken.

UNVOTE: Tech

I won't be back in time for the hammer/deadline. Just wanted to say okay, I had Tech made out wrong. ISOing him, I don't think we're going to yield scum from Voided. He's been further upfront with ideas than the rest of us. I think it's a lynch sparked by scum trying to get us to mistrust those out on the front lines.

Here's the post where PG totally fucks us out of a lynch.

Don't expect anything revolutionary, just expect a catch-up.

All we need is a Technovote.

I can deal.

Unvote, Vote: Techno

Of course, let me finish before someone hammers.

Wouldn't be nice if I died at night

at all

Here's the post where Hiraki votes Techno. Maybe you should read the thread a bit more Cheery.

[greygnarl]

Seil didn't go for the lynch he didn't believe in. That's fine, it seems. I didn't go for the lynch I didn't believe in. Now I'm scummy for it? The town thing to do was hammer someone I thought was town and could still help us out? Probably would still be in this position regardless of whether or not I hammered. But if you want to go ahead and see if

scum take the easy way out

, then lynch me. Talk it out first, though. Quicklynches tend to cause people to overlook things as seen in Open 438.

If Tech still needs to die, though,

VOTE: TeChNoWc

Looks to me like you're the one taking the easy way out. Hopping on Techno even though you thought he was town last post you made. Techno could very well be scum but you're not even giving reasons he is. You're sheeping CES so he doesn't sic his sheep on you.

BTW CES, why didn't you hammer Voided? No lynch is clearly anti-town and you would've either hit scum right there or if that failed you would have gotten a Techno lynch, all you've wanted the whole game, the very next day. Trading one Voided for an extra day and a scum(if Technoscum) or getting an extra day and a scum and trading nothing(if Voided scum) is far better than losing a day. We are in the same position we were before except now we've got PG derping around.

[greygnarl]

Voided don't hammer. We might be able to get a few scumtells out of people before it goes through. Mr. K will do it anyway once he's on. He's been sheeping around all of D2.

@Techno CES makes good sense. With you at L-2 and sheep still running around all over the place your lynch was very feasible. You need to get your head back on your shoulders. While your case on Voided is very plausible, you're starting to lash out at anyone whoa attacks you.

[greygnarl]

Mr. K I guess I was wrong about you sheeping. You and Cheery kind of blend together in my mind sometimes.

What I was saying is that I was pretty sure you were gonna come in and hammer and since it seemed like Voided was considering hammering I wanted him to wait because a couple posts could always end up being scumtells.

[greygnarl]

What do you mean by "people who changed their mind", K?

In all the simplicity: at the end of Day 2, no-one was voting PG. Now five people is and one wants to hammer. In between basically nothing else happened than the unvote and the strange vote back on Tech. Now, I'm not meaning to undermine the unvote in any way, I just think it's equally stupid behaviour no matter which alignment PG is and don't think it's necessarily a scum sign. Apparently six people disagree with me (because they changed from not voting to voting based on this) and thus I'm thinking I must be missing something here. Or was it just that the unvote and the vote back on Tech was the final straw that made everyone think "

ok, he's been anti-town enough - he must be scum"?

(for clarity, you might want to use Mr.K. Not to feed my ego but to make sure I don't think of K as an "ok" or something, which I suppose might happen)

That's about what it was for me.

Also, that would be a good idea.

[greygnarl]

Thanks Tech for proving my point. either you or Voided is scum. I'm 99% certain of that. Still leaning Voided but your play is starting to get worse.

[greygnarl]

If you find Hiraki scummy then I don't know. i'm just getting more of a dumbass vibe. the one thing that irks me is that he's kindof been playing it up a little too much. Still not scummy IMO.

[greygnarl]

Hiraki, that garbage your posting doesn't help town. Your defense makes zeros sense and no one thought you were scum anyway.

[greygnarl]

you need to read the game. If you think anybody is going to jump on a wagon created by Cheery or Mr. K then you need to get your head screwed on straight.

[greygnarl]

How do you guys not think that PG is scum?

He is a smart guy but made a really antitown play. I'm pretty sure a town PG would never settle for no-lynch.

[greygnarl]

Time for reads:

Sisterman: Likely town. I don't see scum drawing that kind of attention early on or trying to rush us out of RVS on the first post. Plus, I honestly think that's a great way to play the reaction test.

Greygnarl: Null-leaning-town. He pointed out the things wrong with Seil's "RVS" play, but this could be a distancing ploy. I'll keep an eye out on the GG/Seil connection.

Seilkops: Probably scum, but could be making town mistakes. It just seems too easy to believe right now that Seil has scummy reasons to make those kinds of mistakes early on. I could be wrong and someone please correct me if I am.

Funkybike: Leaning town. He attempts to quell the exchanges going on at the time of his second post. Sounds like an attempt to get us to make a unified scumhunting effort. But he still needs to tell us what he sees.

Tech: Probably town. Going for Seil since Seil reacted strangely to Sisterman's opening attack is a good move.

Cheery Dog: Null-leaning-town. Two posts, one with a vote on SM and one with an unvote. Though his note on Seil's "reaction test within a reaction test" seems like a reasonable observation.

andrew94: Null. One post so far to cover his thoughts and seems to want his questions answered before he continues reading.

Voidedmafia: Leaning town. Questions SM's attack with a valid point, but also makes a good note about the GG/Seil bit still going on (When I read "different reasons than you think" given the circumstances, I'm thinking the best reason is distancing.)

And that covers introductory reads on everyone that's here. As there's more reason to believe in his scumminess than anyone else right now, let's turn up the pressure.

UNVOTE: Mr. K
VOTE: Seilkops

This post where he lists all of his reads is very good. He makes points that an experienced player would make and I think after one game most people know that no-lynch is a bad idea. No explanation can fix this except for never played mafia before. There is a reason that there is never a no-lynch situation. It's the worst outcome for town.

Quote tag fixed. (Equinox)

[greygnarl]

@MOD please fix tags

[greygnarl]

I'm saying Godot is experienced and that's why he's scum.

[greygnarl]

PG went for a no-lynch. No experienced town player would ever go for a no-lynch.

[greygnarl]

Techno lynch is certainly better than no-lynch.

[greygnarl]

Techno is a scumspect for at least 4 people. You, me, CES, and Voided. That means he must be doing something scummy. His lynch gives us odd numbers. PG didn't know Techno's alignment if he was town.

However, the town move would have been hammer Voided not sit on Techno.

[greygnarl]

Annnd GG votes me again for like, the 6th time.

I am at my limit here.

This has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever seen.

[greygnarl]

Voided, we're going to need a commitment soon. I really would prefer a PG lynch but will hammer Tech if you go for hi

If you put Tech at L-1 then I'll wait for him to post before I hammer.

[greygnarl]

I'd actually prefer a Voided lynch over a Tech lynch but that has no chance of happening. BTW, how did all you guys suddenly decide Voided was town?

Iw ill post tomorrow with some interesting points on this.

[greygnarl]

Mr. K, CES, somebody can we get a hammer?

[greygnarl]

CES and friends you have to look at this perspectively. There is no chance you will get a Techno lynch. Everybody on the PG wagon (except Voided)as well as Mr. K were on the Voided wagon before N2. that means that even if we all hop off we won't be joining your wagon.

Another interesting thought.

Right now I'm like 90% sure that PG is scum. However, I'm absolutely positive that either Voided or Techno is scum, with like 70% of that suspicion on Voided.

Would a better move be to lynch Voided then Techno and save PG for later?

[greygnarl]

Either you or Techno is scum. I was pretty sure it was you. Then, PG comes in and seemingly saves your ass. Suddenly no one should suspect you anymore?

[greygnarl]

Will catch up later.

[greygnarl]

Do you think PG's town, CES?

Not as such, sadly. It would be easier if I did.

If you don't think PG is town then why haven't you hammered his ass?

Still reading but nobody has quoted this post so I thought I'd say something.

[greygnarl]

Is anyone else finding it weird that the current wagons are the two people CES called out as the scumteam in his opening (replace-in) post?

I'm not sure what I want to do with this fact, but I felt like sharing it

and...that is in any way indicative of CES's alignment how?

Voided no need to spazz out. Cheery was making an observation. You are acting like making an observation is scumtell.

[greygnarl]

Voided, at the time of the incident, why did you defend seil?

[greygnarl]

The last few days I have been going back and forth. If we wait we might get more scumtells. That being said, I feel like PG's scum flip coupled with a NK would pretty much be enough to reduce the pool of suspects to 2 or 3 people.

[greygnarl]

It gets the game going though. That's no the greatest reason but I like faster games.

[greygnarl]

I can't think that a town PG, or a town anyone,would ever go for a no lynch though. It just goes against mafia logic.

[greygnarl]

Voided, I don't understand why you jumped on Cheery for making an observation. He said he felt that it might be important but couldn't figure out why. Maybe someone else could've made sense of it.

[greygnarl]

Hiraki if you hammer you'll have stuff to post. : twisted :

[greygnarl]

While your case on Voided is very plausible, you're starting to lash out at anyone whoa attacks you

What the fuck is this? You've been throwing your vote around willy nilly all game, jumping on bandwagon after bandwagon. Tell me, is CES town? And if you like my case on Voided, is he scum? What about Pros? Who is more scummy?

I like to speed the game up. I know that can give scum an advantage, but I never would vote someone that was obviously protown. Unless I can see an case and someone else cans see the same case, I won't vote. Unless of course (dare I say it?) I'm reaction fishing. Flips are what I base a lot of stuff on.

At the moment I have a null read but weird gut on CES. He hasn't done anything really scummy or towny by tunneling you. I kind of feel like a town wouldn't tunnel the whole time, but I don't think a scum would either.

Voided or you is scum. Still leaning Voided. Pros looks scum to me, my vote has been on him for more than a few posts. Pros, no-lynch is absolute shit. You don't let the scum decide who to kill.

[greygnarl]

Since that is the case, the only remaining question is then which of you I believe is more likely to be scum. Considering that I find both of you equally likely to be scum at the moment (well, just about equal, anyways), whether or not my vote is on you or PG doesn't really matter to me since either way I'm lynching scum.

Hey Voided VOTE: Techno

[greygnarl]

@VoidedWhy the hell didn't you say you would vote Tech? I am positive that either you or him is one of the scum. I voted PG becasue it looked like he was bailing on a lynch to delay a scumbuddy. If Tech flips scum then PG dies next. If he's town you and PG will die next.

[greygnarl]

Techno did just hammer himself right? Voided why didn't you hammer? You said you would. I said I would vote Tech, it wasn't just a back door out.

Anyone considered the possibility of some uber bussing going on between Techno and CES/Voided? Not sure myself but just throwing that out there.

[greygnarl]

Not sure why anyone would kill PG.

Not sure what the hell to do either. He was my #1 scumspect.

[greygnarl]

i could see Mr. K as lurkerscum but he's not really up there at all. Pretty sure Cheery is town.

[greygnarl]

I also don't get why CES felt that he was going to die.

[greygnarl]

Jesus Christ!

You really think I'd lay down a hammer if I didn't think there was a good chance he would be scum?

I WAS JUST PUTTING THOUGHTS OUT THERE!!!!!!!!

[greygnarl]

You weren't bothered by

im town ya loserfaces

?

Believe me or don't but I didn't see that.

Also, you were speculating about whether or not he was town after that too, though.

[greygnarl]

Please note GG is at L1, something I failed to notice. Do not hammer until everyone's gotten in here.
@VM

Baby come back!

No need to wait, you can hammer me if you want. It will get the game moving even faster.

VOTE: Greygnarl

[greygnarl]

My reads:

Town

CES
Cheery
Me

Leaning town

Voided
Seil

Null

Mr. K

Leaning scum

Andrew94

I really don't have any definite scumreads. andrew seems kind of low IQ so it's possible that he NK'd PG.

[greygnarl]

Hiraki-Null. It seems like a scum would never be that dumb but he also suffers from the low IQ I associate with andrew.

[greygnarl]

Maybe CES is god, and knows who the scum is.

[greygnarl]

Quick question:

I thought Mylo was mislynch or lose. If that's the case we would be there right now.

[greygnarl]

Nevermind, I thought mylo was if the town lynches correctly then the mafia loses. My bad.

[greygnarl]

In my head: Lylo is where the town needs to lynch scum to win.
Mylo is where if the town doesn't mislynch the mafia loses.

[greygnarl]

Lets just move past that. I can't even explain.

[greygnarl]

Start with this.

Since when did I become "Leaning Town" when I've been a scumread all game?

When Tech flipped scum you became a lot more town-looking.

[greygnarl]

He only needs a hammer. Why no-one has done it yet is beyond me.

Cuz I'm town. Since CES was right before and because I have no "real" scumreads,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mr. K

@seil If you think andrew is scum still let's wagon up on him because that's really all I got.

Will look at some ISOs soon.

[greygnarl]

If you're town, why did you vote yourself?

I had no strong scumreads which I had already said and have said again. All of the scumreads right now are total garbage. They have weak basis. Maybe if I flip you guys can get some info.

I like how people only vote me because i voted them,.

...What?

Seilk: Then what was the "baby come back" for?

Grey: How did it change?

All of D3 I was saying that I think either you or Techno are scum. Techno flips scum. You get mostly cleared. I'm still suspicous of you a little because bussing is always a possibility but now you're mostly cleared. I think I explained this already and I think it was obvious.

[greygnarl]

@Voided I thought that either you or Tech was scum. Not both of you. It looked like a town-scum fight to me. I suspected you a bit more the whole game, but suspicion was high on Techno too. Now that we know he was scum, that makes you look very town.

[greygnarl]

oh lovely we've gotten to two full wagons again.

and I'm thinking about switching, someone tell me if I should or not and why that should or shouldn't happen.

Because I'm town? I don't really have a good reason for Mr. K to die. But if it's between him and me you know who it's got to be.

[greygnarl]

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/2dg95JUVta9A

Great game. I thought I could've held out longer but I think that my real undoing was going against Techno's lynch for so long.

[greygnarl]

On Day 4 I had no clue what to do. Sheeping CES was like saving my own ass.

When I'm scum I tend to forget that I am scum and go after people who actually look scummy. Since nobody really looked scummy except me I felt kind of fucked.