Open 453 - SCIENCE! ( Game Over! )

[Voidedmafia]

You can always look it up.

Equi, if I call you a he, I'm apologizing in advance.

Vote: CES

Confirm, ya bastard!

P-EDIT: Oh, that's nice. Stick it right to me -_-.

[Voidedmafia]

Vote Voided

Not you, too...I thought we were friends, Dashie...

[Voidedmafia]

Vote: Voidedmafia

OMGUS.

[Voidedmafia]

Then why aren't you voting for Tierce?

That was me.

Keep Mini in ADWD, will ya?

also, Riss answered your question.

[Voidedmafia]

I would be moving my vote here but its already in the right spot.

Oh?

[Voidedmafia]

Close, but no cigar.

UNVOTE: Equinox
VOTE: Robocopter87

Are you petitioning for Dash-Robo now?

[Voidedmafia]

I would be moving my vote here but its already in the right spot.

Oh?

You arent paying attention so far.

Yes I have. Where have I not?

really bad RVS vote

RVS votes can be qualified as good or bad now?

and possibly worse reaction to my vote.

But we're best buds, aren't we? Y u RVS me?

Why still voting CES anyways?

I can?

Vote: Riss

Took me a while to figure out what you did wrong here. I believe i fixed the problem. ~ Venmar

[Voidedmafia]

FUCK ME AND MY FAILURE TO PROPERLY DO QUOTE TAGS!

Fix, please, mod?

[Voidedmafia]

You arent paying attention because Riss hasnt answered the last question from CES that directly, only the jokey one. Her other response seems to just avoid taking a straightforward answer.

So she answered the question. Whether or not her answer is a good one is irrelevant to that point, so don't try to make a point out of thin air. (on the topic on how good or bad her answer is, I agree that it's bad and she should've been more straightforward in her answer)

Why wait for me to call you on not moving a vote for you to move it? I could guess reasoning to the move but timing is way off.

Would keeping my vote on CES have made you feel better?

Some RVS votes are bad. In a game thats strong going out of your way to declare it RVS and taking the 'hasnt confirmed' path I dont like much.

I was the 3rd person to post in-thread. And how is something that's factually true (CES being the only one who hadn't confirmed when Venmar opened the thread for D1) a bad reason to vote something or a reason to dislike?

(By strong, are you referring to the players?)

Your reaction to mine was just really unexpected and just bugs me. Its hard to really describe but when I saw that response it was that wince type response.

Welp, I can't really help that. Other than hoping you don't stick those flygirl hooves anywhere near my face.

[Voidedmafia]

Basically going "I dont know" is not answering a question.

Does post 22 sound like an "I don't know" answer? It sure doesn't sound like one to me.

Between Riss posting last and me asking why you are voting CES you posted. Why did you not move your post at that point? You sidestepped my question.

Because I didn't think about moving it at that point, and partially didn't want to.

Oddly enough, yes I dislike the reason and actually think that not confirming if possibly an alignment tell wouldnt be a scumtell because mafia also have daytalk. No need to prolong confirmation stage for anypony.

But...it's still RVS?

Plus the whole post reads as heavyhanded. Comment to Robo, comment to Equinox, comment to Riss, vote on CES, immediate comment to me after that. Its one of those things that just doesnt feel right.

I was able to see it in a timely enough manner to respond quickly. Compare it to my post right before you say you're happy where your vote is, which is nearly 12 hours after my last post because of sleep and college.

It still bugs me. Its like that comment that when you are having a conversation with someone it just one of those things that maks you go "wait... what?".

What, you are talking about post #9, yes? I was being mock-hurt that you'd wagon me in RVS, more or less.

Fixed your quote tag on the very top. ~ Venmar

[Voidedmafia]

But...it's still RVS?

The idea is that the reason you gave was a "safe" one.

I guess I can see the "safety" of it...

[Voidedmafia]

Some of these votes need to be clarified as serious or not. By some that means basically all.

Mine is, so...

Equi: I will admit that part of the reason why I changed was thinking along the lines of, "Okay, so you don't want me voting CES (or just not RVSing) anymore, Dashie? Fine. *votes scumspect*"

[Voidedmafia]

You wanted to lynch me because I was being useless. Thats a pretty decent reason imo, I don't see any reason to fret over that.

Other than the obvious fact that

You're being useless

?!

Robocopter--so you see two people voting you, claim that one of them at least has a decent reason to be voting you, and don't adjust your behavior to be useful to town?

The votes aren't going to go away because "

[you're]

not one to care". You're still being useless, while Equinox is voting a scumspect--she's not "just sitting there", as you're trying to paint her.

Basically agree with this.

Vote: Robocopter

[Voidedmafia]

It says you are more willing to policy lynch than to scumhunt for a proper lynch.

I don't remember "policy lynch" being among my list of reasons for wanting you dead...

[Voidedmafia]

Whom should I have voted then?

idk, but you could hammer (or claim intent to) Robo.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm already voting, derp.

[Voidedmafia]

You arent paying attention because Riss hasnt answered the last question from CES that directly, only the jokey one. Her other response seems to just avoid taking a straightforward answer.

So she answered the question. Whether or not her answer is a good one is irrelevant to that point, so don't try to make a point out of thin air. (on the topic on how good or bad her answer is, I agree that it's bad and she should've been more straightforward in her answer)

Basically, even though she did answer CES' question on page 1, the answer was vague and didn't actually answer the question.

[Voidedmafia]

You are still voting Robo. You should stop that.

No.

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, this one-liner exchange is boring, so I'll just lay out the cards here.

You've said nothing of import.

You deftly dodge the RVS bandwagons by voting the moderator, and you stay there. Fair enough; some people do that because it's funny. When the vote switches start happening, though, you don't really react. Even though you thought my vote on you was for a policy lynch, you didn't react to it. From your point of view, I am pushing for an easy lynch while avoiding commentary on Voidedmafia; that should have raised red flags.

You're just sitting there wondering why my vote's on you.

Robocopter--so you see two people voting you, claim that one of them at least has a decent reason to be voting you, and don't adjust your behavior to be useful to town?

The votes aren't going to go away because "

[you're]

not one to care". You're still being useless, while Equinox is voting a scumspect--she's not "just sitting there", as you're trying to paint her.


I would also lynch CES.

You disagree wholeheartedly with these two posts?

[Voidedmafia]

One cryptic player is probably enough.

Robocopter went from calling Equinox's vote on him (and mine, as I gather?) a 'policy lynch' to saying she has decent reasons to be voting him. When called out on the fact that he is still doing nothing, he went back to calling it a 'policy lynch'.

So what is it, Robo? You are showing no evidence of trying to contribute; that could be lazy town, but you are trying to throw mud at the people voting you by saying that they are not interested in lynching scum, when by your own admittance your play does not help town.

Who do you think you should get away with doing nothing?

Oh, and I missed this one, too, Dashie.

Look, if we were just saying that "ROBO IS DOING NOTHING, LYNCH THE USELESS X-BAG!" (in other words, our argument was just that Robo was being useless and nothing else), you'd probably be right in being miffed at us.

However, when you've both Blatantly admitted to at least the possibility of doing nothing at all, and Then start complaining (or otherwise mudslinging) about votes that were

completely endorsed by you as good votes

and were likely pressure attempts to get you to do something and resort to calling them policy lynch votes, I don't see how we shouldn't be voting him. You can only be anti-town for so much or so long before it starts getting ridiculous and scummy, and Robo's clearly already passed the line betwen "anti-town" and "scummy".

Now, if you don't want to explain your tell until post-game/when it's appropriate, that's fine. I won't force you do (though I am curious). But I'm not going to unvote if the reasons why I should aren't explained.

Equi, are you just sheeping Dashie, here?

Riss, do you still even support your vote on me?

[Voidedmafia]

Equi, are you just sheeping Dashie, here?

Sort of. I haven't spotted the tell that Rainbowdash is claiming, but Rainbowdash's hardline defense for Robocopter87 means Robocopter87 is more likely to be town than not, regardless of what Rainbowdash is.

Why does it make you sure that Robo's town regardless of Dashie's alignment? I suppose another phrasing is, why is Dashie's alignment here irrelevant?

There's a couple of possibilities I've thought of where this might not hold true, but they're both things I believe I can spot at a later point.

How sure do you think you are in spotting these?

My vote switch to you was my own. Your vote switch to Robocopter87 while Tierce and I were attacking him caught my attention. Rainbowdash happened to give me an excuse to switch to you.

So, you're voting me because my switch to Robo was suspect? Am I understanding you correctly here?

[Voidedmafia]

Exactly.

And your basis for assuming she's voting CES now because of Dashie's defense of you instead of any possible scumminess in CES is what, now?

(She's wrong, btw, but that's irrelevant here.)

[Voidedmafia]

Um what?

You assume to much.

Seeing as I said this,

So go on Tierce, why should we lynch Robocopter87?

And her next post was this,

UNVOTE: Robocopter87
VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

So yeah. don't know what the heck you are talking about.

You haven't provided a link that clearly shows that Tierce unvoted because there was no reason to lynch Robo. It is a POSSIBILITY, yes, but you haven't shown it to be the definitive reason (nor has Tierce commented on why she's unvoting you).

[Voidedmafia]

You haven't provided a link that clearly shows that Tierce unvoted because there was no reason to lynch Robo. It is a POSSIBILITY, yes, but you haven't shown it to be the definitive reason (nor has Tierce commented on why she's unvoting you).

You are battling with technicalities.

Then I suppose I'll just have to sit here with my vote on your scummy ass while you complain about "technicalities" and no one gives explicit reasoning not to unvote you (Dashie's tell is implicit since it has not been explained, btw).

[Voidedmafia]

1.) Being useless (and admitting to it). This IS more anti-town that outright scumm, admittedly.
2.) Trying to paint votes as policy lynches when they're not.
3.) Trying to make unvotes out like people are unvoting you because you're town when no such reasoning actually exists as of yet. (basically, trying to paint yourself as mislynch bait, more or less.)

[Voidedmafia]

1. If it more anti town than scum them then it is a policy lynch to lynch me based off this reasoning.
2. See point one. Also you say that it is not a policy lynch but you have failed to give any specific reasoning for lynch me besides being useless.
3. No such reasoning exists? What about the fact that Tierce posted twice without acknowledging me?

1. Because it's anti-town

standalone

. If that was all you'd done then your wagon wouldn't have materialized.
2. I'll just quote what Tierce said below this post of yours:

Robocopter: please explain why you think it's acceptable for a town player to not vote, to just complain when others are voting him, to have no visible reads at all, not even about the wagon on you. This is supposedly what you are doing. I don't treat these players as policy lynches, I treat them as scum, because this is scum behavior. Behaving like this as town is pretty unnacceptable on my book. It's more likely to come from scum than town, there is no town motivation for it (if your motivation is getting reactions, you're not going to get anything useful, because town has every right to be riled up that you're effectively not helping your faction), so I vote it.

3. Which is exactly why your assumption is no better than any one I may have made. Also, that's not conclusive of anything, either.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided: You're saying that you accept it if Rainbowdash doesn't explain her tell... but then say that if it isn't explained, you're not removing your vote. That amounts to stomping your foot and sticking to a wagon--and at this point, it's pretty clear that that wagon isn't going to go through.

Well, yes, now that I'm the lone ranger on the wagon there's no point in pushing the issue or staying on, but I still can't accept Robo as being any measure of town based on an as-of-yet-unexplained tell.

unvote

I understand sticking to one's guns, but at this point you're being as useless as Robocopter. Look at it this way: Equinox unvoted. I unvoted. Robocopter is not going to vote himself. You no longer have the sufficient number of players to push this lynch today; accept the fact that the tell will not be explained and look elsewhere.

Okay, okay <_<


Equinox: Newbies can be scum as often as anyone else--but I tend to be wary of wagons on raw newbies. [/quote]
Pssst. Riss ain't new <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

@VM - There is a point where towntells can outweigh scumtells. Robo is town for something, I do not want to say what it is because if scum dont see it, telling them is needless giving them of stuff. Besides, your points 1 and 3 are reaching... the way you word 3 really bugs me too.

I understand why you're not saying the tell (and I'd rather you not until it's unnecessary to keep mum about it), but it's still disconcerting to me.

If point 1 was it, you'd have a point. Since it's not (and factors into point 2, as well), I don't think it's really reachy (or at least not as much as you're seeming to suggest). As for point three, the main problem there is that, when Tierce unvoted, the way Robo's "exactly" sounded was like he thought Tierce unvoted because he was accepting Robo-town (the fact that this was actually true is irrelevant since her reasoning was revealed way after the fact). I disliked the assumption he was trying to make.

Now that the two you sheeped have moved, what are your thoughts as to what exactly is going on? I just see you clinging to a dead wagon that the rest of us are basically saying town for

reasons

and not wanting to move on.

*coughworkworkcoughcough*

If you are sure Robo was scum... was he getting bussed?

I don't know if Tierce or Equi are known for bussing, but I don't feel like Tierce was. The attack was pretty legitimate, so that part feels town to me.

Equi feels more like she could've bussed. I sadly can't explain this beyond that, but that's how I feel.

Was a partner defending him?

I've seen Dashie do such hard-defense-with-tells before as town(she's the only one who actually defended Robo), so meta points me to her being town. I don't have any scum meta of her doing this, so I don't see her as scum defending a partner.

Also has your read on Riss changed at all? What do you think of those on your wagon.

Re Riss; The lack of posts does nothing to change my read. She's still scum to me.

Re my wagon: You're voting me because you're pissed at me not bowing to your tell pressure (or something like that. Your votepost essentially is demanding that I back down and adding on a vote for increased pressure (which failed, btw)); Equi's more-or-less sheeping you; and Riss is still RVSing me.

Vote: Riss

[Voidedmafia]

I don't know if Tierce or Equi are known for bussing, but I don't feel like Tierce was. The attack was pretty legitimate, so that part feels town to me.

Equi feels more like she could've bussed. I sadly can't explain this beyond that, but that's how I feel.

[...]

Vote: Riss

You feel like I might have been bussing. I basically stated outright in the thread that I'm difficult to lynch even as scum. There's a vote on me. You... vote Riss_? What?

What's your read of Rainbowdash?

Because I'm not sure about my read on you?

Dashie can be town.

[Voidedmafia]

Dashie can be town.

In that case, why are you questioning Rainbowdash's read of Robocopter87? If you have Rainbowdash as probably town, shouldn't that mean you trust her and, by proxy, her reads, as she's a known quantity ability-wise?

Because two townies can't have differing reads?

Dashie finds Robo town right now. I can't possibly see him as town right now. We differ in reads. That doesn't mean that I find Dashie scum/my because OMG HER TOWN ARE MY SCUM!

[Voidedmafia]

@VM - Do you have any strong TOWN reads?

CES. And you, more or less. (well it's not STRONG, but yeah)

[Voidedmafia]

Actual town read on Robocopter87 happened just now when I read Voidedmafia's post, which means you're probably town for putting a full stop on that wagon.

How'd you get a townread from a post of mine when I've been trying to articulate a scumread on him?

[Voidedmafia]

Just trying to get points across. Im against it to the point I am not sure which of Equinox and Robo I would vote if Riss is scum.

If Riss_ is scum, the partner is likely not Robocopter87.

I can agree on this much, if only due to the near-complete lack of interaction between the two.

[Voidedmafia]

Vote Tierce

Thats the lynch then no?

Just logically thats the lynch if im trusting my reads.

But...But...Tierce?

[Voidedmafia]

I think if you can trust me and my Robo defense its the vote to make.

It's not so much an issue of trust but an issue of whether or not I actually like the wagon in question (speaking from before I went to work). I trust you, Dashie, and I guess I can trust that you've found

something

in Robo's ISO to call him town and hard-defend him this much, but I have a townread on Tierce myself, and even if Tierce's death will clear away some doubts, I just don't really feel it at all.

VM is nullish for me. Leaning scummy. But not enough to place my feet in that ground.

And how much of this is based on me sheeping Equi and Tierce onto you?

(also, null-scummy can still let you make a scumteam, yknow.)

You surely can't think we should out the masons to help you scumhunt so I don't really get why you're saying all of this? Especially since it'll rule out mason pairs?

Where'd you get the idea she wanted to out the mason pairs?

[Voidedmafia]

and I guess I can trust that you've found

something

in Robo's ISO to call him town and hard-defend him this much

Pfft my towniness is obvious.

(Not.)

And how much of this is based on me sheeping Equi and Tierce onto you?

(also, null-scummy can still let you make a scumteam, yknow.)

None if it is based on that. Just slight quirks and honestly some PoE. Like I said, not enough to put me in that ground.

(Why? You partners with Riss?)

Like?

(No, but the point is that you're being disingenuous (or however that's spelled) by saying I'm nullscum and then quickly backing up to saying I'm just null when Tierce asks you about that possible scumteam.)

Where'd you get the idea she wanted to out the mason pairs?

I know you directed this at CES, but I gotta say that attempting to find possible Mason pairs in order to clear town is the same thing as attempting to find mason pairs in order to choose a nightkill.

Okay, I guess that makes some sense. Not that I expressly agree with it, but it makes sense.

What does this have to do with answering how people got the idea that she's trying to out the mason pair?

[Voidedmafia]

Pfft my towniness is obvious.

(Not.)
[/quote]
NO U[/quote]
U MAD?

Like this,

It says you are more willing to policy lynch than to scumhunt for a proper lynch.

I don't remember "policy lynch" being among my list of reasons for wanting you dead...

You said this but it took a LOT of pressuring and questioning to get you to explain why it wasn't a policy lynch. And even now I still don't feel that it was adequately dealt with.

1.) I thought i explained it before that post

2.) Why do you think this?

(Except no because I said that you were null with a hint of scum BEFORE Tierce said anything. I don't know how many times I must explain that you are a null read. But slightly scummy. But that scumminess doesn't mean you are scum with Riss. But you know all about "WELL IT WASN'T SPECIFICALLY STATED SO YOU CAN'T ASSUME THAT EVEN THOUGH ITS OBVIOUS ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION." So I shouldn't have to tell you.)

but I think the point of what Tierce was asking was, "if you think VM may be scum, what do you think about a VM/Riss scumteam?" maybe I'm just not reading as much assertiveness in the post as you are.

If you are searching for mason pairs, regardless of your intent, you still are forced to reveal the mason pairs. A.K.A, outting the pairs.

You can't masonhunt and not expect to out masons.

But it's only her educated guess, not expressly true or false. She can narrow it down to a certain pair in her mind but unless said pair explicitly claims to be masons or clear masontells/slips (if such exist) are brought to light it's only conjecture.

[Voidedmafia]

I can lay my reasoning out if you want, but I'm fairly sure that we all can't be wrong about this.

I'd like to know, a least.

If you read Tierce as town, the only logical pairing here is {Equinox, Riss_}.

Which is what I do believe, yes. You're a weaker read, admittedly, but that's where my reads point to. Robo/Equi is also possible, though.

If that pairing makes sense to you, you will get more information out of an Equinox vote at this point, as it will make apparent the scum team in play once I flip. Before you do that, though, please take a look again at why you're reading Tierce as town; if, after that, you still agree with your read, vote me and let Robocopter87 choose the hammer.

The only things that raise any bells are when she begins talking about masons (largely due to the discussion itself), and when she begins to think CES is scum (only because I think he's town, so that point's null, anyways). PoE also dictates that read.

Vote Equinox

[Voidedmafia]

You see RBD? Me not voting worked out quite well for me.

Now I have the power to decide a Day One lynch and on top of that I'm being generally called town (Thanks to you)

I could just coast on this through the whole game. But I'll be nice and help out a little.

Cheeky little scumfuck...

If you have time to lord all this power over us, you have time to make a decision. Do so already.

[Voidedmafia]

Welp, not like that changes my reads or anything.

Vote: DoomYoushi L-1

[Voidedmafia]

Since the scum have day talk, it seems entirely possible that equi and tierce sorted out a bus.ther option would be voided.

Huh? Explain that a little better (and fix that "ther" because I'm fairly sure there isn't a word in English that's spelled like that).

[Voidedmafia]

@VM: The "ther" should be Other. What I mean is that a really obtuse bus is entirely possible since masons have day talk. Ergo, we can't rule out equi bussing tierce.

Okay. HOw does this translate to me being scum?

[Voidedmafia]

Why is it making you stop, RD? Like, what feels wrong/right about it?

[Voidedmafia]

It doesn't, that was 2 seperate lines of thought. I didn't say A, then B. I said A, or B.

In any case, you are scum from PoE. If not you, then Equi.

Why not Dashie? Why not Robo?

[Voidedmafia]

Unvote

would prefer to hammer.

[Voidedmafia]

You have read the thread/my ISO, yes?

[Voidedmafia]

Yea. You had no reasons to vote riss on day q. You never voted tierce, instead you voted equinox but now are sheeping Equi on day 2. If tierce had flipped town, who would you be voting today?

Day q? I have no idea what day q is.

If you mean day

1

, of course I had a reason. Riss was the other scum to me via PoE; still is, really, or Equi is.

And...I never voted Equi yesterday?

[Voidedmafia]

Or I did and I can't remember who I voted to lynch. <_<

Anyways, the part about having no reason to vote Riss is a flat-out lie, and what does not voting Tierce have to do with things?

[Voidedmafia]

*coughRobowagoncough* (and, funnily enough, you missed some of that in the post you quoted).

Also, that's not where I listed a reason for Riss in the first place. I won't say she's been a scumread all game (that'd be a blatant lie), but I've had her as a scumread since, like, page 2-3, so...

(if you need to ask about Dash, then you obviously haven't read jack-shit on me; same with Robo, only that's not entirely in my ISO)

[Voidedmafia]

A.) Doom's not at L-1 anymore
B.) Why should you hammer?

[Voidedmafia]

I dunno, I was rather convinced of Dashie-town. I wouldn't have lynched Equi that quickly, but if it was a me-Equi-Dashie Lylo I don't think I would've lynched Dashie.