Open 432: Robo's PYP (Game Over)

[Purrfect Panda]

This is the Rach half of the hydra will be discussing some things with Elmo and will post more shortly

[Purrfect Panda]

Welcome Starbuck.

Reason for the hydra is Elmo has limited time with work right now , so we got together for this. my bf NS helped me set up the hydra. I am going to sort through these pages and from what I have seen so far we are already getting out of RVS into real discussion. My RVS vote (if Elmo agreed) was going to be on Absta.

@Shamrock? why are you so SURE it is a scum slip on the part of 13th? Could it be that he did not pay attention to the fact there are 3 scum in this setup? In my experience, scum are more likely to pay closer attention to those kind of details than town ESPECIALLY to how much scum there are.

@ Slandaar and Absta could you two give us something about the rest of the players and stop wrestling with each other for a moment or two?

More later after a chat with Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

Monty could you get an avatar? they can be 100 by 100 pixels, and it will help us with seeing your posts in the thread thanks.

[Purrfect Panda]

Slandaar check out Open 408 I screwed up and forgot that there were 3 scum instead of 2, and I messed up on the count for L-1 because I was mainly in Newbie games at that point. (Rach half) Also, if you want to see how I did as scum in this same set up check out Open 397 which was modded by Elmo, and Glow, T and P, and I were the scum. Also, 2/13 chance of being scum instead of 3/13 chance still sounds to me as a mixup by a townie not by a scum.

Way to avoid my question though Slandaar.....

[Purrfect Panda]

That he thought there were only 2 scum instead of 3 (hence the 2/13 instead of 3/13) I have done that too before when in non newbie games.

[Purrfect Panda]

So we learn more about what kind of motivations you have. Not voting denies us that information.

I disagree.

vote Slandaar

You're trying to break down his motivations without sharing any of your own, and that feels manipulative.

Hi Noraaaa glad to see you're here but do you have anything else to say?

not likely to say, but there's a 2/13 chance of it being true lol

there are 3 mafia in this game - unless you already know that one of them is you. scumslip? i'll call that good enough for a page 2 vote.

VOTE: friday-13th

Bad vote is bad.

Noraaa's 51 I don't like it she's feeling likes she's being attacked and had no votes on her and now she wants to back off and try to "please" the town.

Rach you haven't given us anything. Stop using Elmo as an excuse.

I would like to to confir with me over somethings. >_>

Slandaar - Come on man. Your #65 is crap.

Hi, sorry for my inactivity over the weekend - had a personal emergency to deal with. Will catch up tonight.

Let's not lynch me while I sleep again K? K

Really Noraaa drop the walls. Im not reading it and reads like a bunch of QQ to me..

VOTE: absta
Little more vocal here then you got in 430. And even then Mt votes torn between you and Noraaa right now. Slan is town (Sadly)


And the slip was based on if scum was 2/13 3/13. Its not hard to decipher. I also modded this setup last so yeah.

~ Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

@Elmo

Little more vocal here then you got in 430.

Your vote here is very opportunistic. You're attacking me for a null tell.
A different alignment is not the only possible cause for a different playstyle. Factors like your role and how interested you are in the game play an equally large part. The fact that you only "assumed" a different alignment makes you look desperate to pin me as scum.

Also:
1. Go check my other games, i'm almost always the most active.
2. I replaced into 430 for the sole purpose of helping the Mod out, he needed quite a few replacements. I did NOT join it because of the setup.

And even then My votes torn between you and Noraaa right now.

Unless you disagree with what's been said about Noraa-town (why haven't you mentioned this?), your accusation against her is evidence of you not thoroughly reading the game. This means it's possible that you're scum and that you still find her to be an easy target which fits your profile of an opportunistic scum.

VOTE: Panda
Panda is definitely scum.

(inb4youshoutOMGUS)

HA! Funny there. Really I was making an observation. Did I read Noraaa's wall of joy no. I skimmed it. IT seems shes crying wolf about being called out on things she "says" she was being called out on. Even then look at your vote and tell me how I am opportunistic. Your an idiot if you think I would make my vote that fucking obvious 4 pages in. And so defensive overall. I have a very small list of town/scum atm. You already know what side your on. And I think its funny you're already thinking I am going to accuse you of OMGUS....Its almost as if you know your vote is bad but your going to fling as much shit to see if it can stick that you can.

Is that the best case you have on me though is opportunistic? Is this why you're defending Noraaa? Buddying already 4 pages in?

And if we're talking about how your more active then O430. I wasn't the one who called you out on it and what was said in that game about you being active?

absta does seem to contribute more in games where he has an "anti-role"...

Oh yeah I think it was Dark who said it.

Mod: The Quote I Used The Game Just Finished

So do you want to prove me wrong here then? Hmmm? Also you know my lynch there was complete bullshit. Fucking lynch someone while they sleep and can't defend themselves. I had a decent shot at a 3P Lylo for the win...

Do me a favor and find a spot for your vote to sit and calm the fuck down.

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

@ Sawyer I think you missed the point my other head was trying to make which was that

ABSTA

was buddying noraa hard.

[Purrfect Panda]

This is the Rach head here. Elmo is playing very consistently for Elmo and well every game someone thinks he is scum for it. Noraa is right I had V/LA and then ended it too early because all heck broke loose just as I got back. However in this case, it was I wanted to touch base with Elmo which I had not been able to do before my first couple of posts. First time for me as a hydra.

I will read walls though, and will see what is up with Noraa's walls. Also will find the question Starbuck asked.

[Purrfect Panda]

Purrfect Panda

Really Noraaa drop the walls. Im not reading it and reads like a bunch of QQ to me..

I do apologize for my part in that, but it felt like an easier way to ask direct questions to break it down to where I wanted more of an explanation.

And even then Mt votes torn between you and Noraaa right now.

Why? What is your case on noraaa?

Absta101

I've been feeling icky about absta since I first read the game. I know he explained further that posts without votes can be useful, but it seems like a silly position for town to take. This is a game that is highly dependent on words and to openly say that you have a penchant to discount posts without votes is highly strange to me.

I'm still a bit confused at his reply:

I do find them useful. Just because I found votes "more useful" doesn't mean I find posts without them useless.
Events have proven me wrong in that a post with no vote can be just as effective.

I learn all my tells from the games i've played, I guess you can call me naive. Code didn't exactly help.

How many games has that been?

I voted him for:
1. Not voting because I thought (not voting) would prolong our time in the RVS stage.
Then after reviewing the setup...

2. The opposite of what he said in his first post seemed more likely therefore making me slightly suspicious.

1. Why would you think this?

2. why did it make you slightly suspicious?


Another thing, Absta's defense of noraaa is inching closer and closer to white knighting.

I'd guess Slandaar or Starbuck as one of her partners.

How so?

I saw no reason to explain the reasoning or motivation behind my initial post. Not explaining allows others to chirp in their views without being tainted by my explanation.

Absolutely.

His initial post confirms nothing one way or the other and there's nothing to base any assumption off of. It's basically like say "He said he's confirmed town, but he could be just scum saying that. But scum wouldn't say that, it would draw to much attention. Unless he is scum and he knows we would think like that, so we would think he's town!" And it goes on and on.

And this completely.



Shamrock's vote on friday-13th is absolutely terrible.


Still awaiting noraaa to come back and fully answer my questions.

@Starbuck We do not yet have a specific case on Noraa, I want to read her walls first, and Elmo does not read walls. Elmo often sees certain tells and goes with gut, I tend to be a tad more passive and sift through everything for the big picture before making a decision on who is scum.

[Purrfect Panda]

I would be happy to answer questions what questions did you have Shamrock?


Welcome Natalie

[Purrfect Panda]

I was not so much defending 13th as questioning YOU to get a handle on your slot, though as I said it usually is more often that town not scum mess up on the game setups and mechanics. For a good reason, Scum has to try to blend in and confuse townies so they can get mislynches and avoid being lynched themselves, so they are more likely to pay closer attention to the setup and mechanics of the game. I was suspicious of you jumping on that as a scum tell, so I questioned you.

[Purrfect Panda]

I am not saying that Noraa is not likely to be scum I am not sure yet though Elmo has a gut scum read on her, but we both know for a fact she has had issues going on in RL so that is real. I can empathize since I had my issues not that long ago.

[Purrfect Panda]

@ Slandaar I will go re-read that in context and give you my thoughts.

[Purrfect Panda]

The Rach head of Panda seems far scummier than Elmo. Ergh maybe she's not so good at scum as he. And she still doesn't contribute anything to the convo.

Thanks for the compliment that I can play scum. Sadly I'm not this game >_>

And if all fairness I was an SK last time. And a way to tell who's posting is I sign my posts. Rach does not. I see I have more votes. Hopefully I'll read up and debunk all the bullshit against me. Which there is a slew. But for now I'm going to sleep since the next week of work is going to be hellacious. 50+ hour week same as this past week on top of no days off at all. WOO HOO!!!!

(Yes this was pure fluff. Don't like it bite me. Also my wagon is scum driven. And that's all I got)

Good Night
~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach half here. I am going to do some ISO research and then discuss findings with Elmo and post them. One of the reasons we are doing this as a hydra is his heavy workload right now.

I also would be happy to provide links showing this is typical of Elmo's play as town. As well as mine.

[Purrfect Panda]

@ Mod V/LA till tomorrow

This is the Rach half and I am sorry but I have to go for yet a THIRD night tonight of sleep study because they have determined I have moderate sleep apnea and that the CPap is not gonna work well enough for me so tonight they will try the bi-level and hopefully that works.

I will be back tomorrow though. Do me a favor and don't lynch me yet so I have time to put together a case on someone who is more likely to be scum. And have a chance to answer the cases put against Elmo and I. Thanks.

[Purrfect Panda]

putting together a case for me means going through all the ISOs and I have to leave in about an hour.

[Purrfect Panda]

I am on my way out the door but it sucks cause it is a mislynch and we still have time til deadline to actually catch scum. I think Elmo indicated his displeasure with it already in previous posts. He usually gets most irritated when he sees that town is on the wrong path when he is town. Then the snarky side comes out in him.

[Purrfect Panda]

My wagon is scum driven I believe and easily a shot case has been thrown on it.

And BRANDI IS IN MUH GAME O_O
THIS PLAYERLIST JUST GETS BETTER!!

~Elmo

Oh and how about we not lynch the hydra today? I'm sure we can throw rocks and hit more scum that way

[Purrfect Panda]

Bar saying it's scum driven. Like who is the scum driving it? Slandaar? Me? Absta? Come on Elmo.

When I find time to fucking read this game. I'll explain. Rather have time.
Today was "eventful" to say the least. And I'm going to work in about an hour and to the casino. Maybe the gym as well. It's been a super fuckin stressful day. And I still have Absta as my #1. Read

tl;dr my little one got out of the house and was searching for her daddy. Fill in the rest. So yeah. You'll get more later

~Elmo

Ps. <3 Brandi

[Purrfect Panda]

So: good lynches IMO right now are Scigatt and Panda. Could see myself getting behind a Monty lynch too, but again, want to see more activity from him.

@Darklight: Have you played with absta before?

@Kyle: Is noraaa/Brandi still your only scumread? Thoughts on Panda, Monty, Scigatt?

Robo, can you prod Monty? Also, is there any chance I could convince you to reduce the prod deadline from 72h to 48h or 36h? 72h really is quite a long time between posts.

If you want to play the Good Lynch game your setting yourself up for the easy hop on my wagon. Pretty easy when you're sitting on a non existant wagon and can now just hop to mine with no consequence...Hmm..Interesting now isn't?

And look Dark makes a case but no one gives a shit about it. Peachy.

Slaandar has done nothing since the last post about setup speculation...Pretty funny isn't it?

Oh and best part of my wagon so far is Sawyer being worthless as well. Let's just complain about my attempt at complaining about Noraaa's walls and what not.

Obv Scum on my wagon: Sawyer & Absta

Worthless Town on my wagon: Slaandar

Obv Scum waiting to hop on my wagon: Shamrock.

If you want to fucking put your votes on me go ahead Shamrock and quit playing the "oh I think their scummy but Im going to leave my vote on someone else for no reason"
GROW SOME FUCKING BALLS AND VOTE ME!
VOTE: Shamrock

Also Mod Im V/LA all week. Boss is on vacation -____-

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

I am back home from the sleep study I will take a look at it Shamrock and discuss it with Elmo.


@ Brandi yes my other head gets rather rough around the edges when he plays mafia.

[Purrfect Panda]

A bit of the heat has gone off Panda and the hydra has gone into lurk mode. I know RL issues and the like but no doubt it will be a case of Elmo throwing a load of rage and Rach saying she needs to speak to Elmo and then defends all his hate rage.

Also Mod Im V/LA all week. Boss is on vacation -____-

>_> I was going to get to this but Ive been falling asleep a lot lately..And I have a big matter to attend to

[Purrfect Panda]

Twiddles thumbs.

Wants Panda to produce. Wants Kyle to appear and post reads. Wants Monty dead.

I just woke up after sleeping my day away. Don't expect much till Friday.
Unless Rach appears

~Elmo

PS. If you think I'm scum just go ahead and lynch me out of this game. Or let the vig off me during the night.

Oh and I have a bit of insider information as well I'll reveal later about the setup.

[Purrfect Panda]

bah he meant he Modded this setup before in Open 397. I was in that game along with several others including LS, Gunny, and the scum team was Glowball, T and P (a hydra) and myself. LS was the one shot cop who investigated me, our hydra T and P bussed me heavily cause he forgot I was on his team, my bf NS and I realized we could not play in the same game and he replaced out, Gunny went weird on us as the Innocent Child, and T and P fake claimed tracker which when the IC claim came out and LS claimed Cop showed that T and P was lying and well if it had not been for Glow plus the town making a few odd choices for mislynching, town would have won that game.

Elmo are you trying to commit suicide of us here?


It is very late right now and I am exhausted, but I PROMISE I will give more tomorrow so please give me a chance to speak on our behalf before lynching us.

[Purrfect Panda]

bah he meant he Modded this setup before in Open 397. I was in that game along with several others including LS, Gunny, and the scum team was Glowball, T and P (a hydra) and myself. LS was the one shot cop who investigated me, our hydra T and P bussed me heavily cause he forgot I was on his team, my bf NS and I realized we could not play in the same game and he replaced out, Gunny went weird on us as the Innocent Child, and T and P fake claimed tracker which when the IC claim came out and LS claimed Cop showed that T and P was lying and well if it had not been for Glow plus the town making a few odd choices for mislynching, town would have won that game.

Elmo are you trying to commit suicide of us here?


It is very late right now and I am exhausted, but I PROMISE I will give more tomorrow so please give me a chance to speak on our behalf before lynching us.

Having modded another game of the same set up gives you no "insider information". You better hope that's not what he meant because its not gonna stop your lynch.

Na. Figured I could have some fun with these people. And realize I have modded this setup. Robo even asked me a couple questions on how I did things. But that's not the point. Insider information comes from nodding this before. Rach said it best. She was scum and pretty bad at it. >_>

Her mafia breathen saved her in the end for the win.

But I'm sorry. I can prolly guess 2 of 5 PR's mafia chose just based purely on what the options are.
I mean seriously ffs. You think I'm that stupid to say I'm scum like that.

I can setup speculate like the rest of us here but I bet I guess what we have starting with what your all eluding to

[Purrfect Panda]

UNVOTE: BK201
VOTE: Purrfect Panda

SCUMMY.

*Looks at set up again*

Yeah, I dont think "insider information" is possible unless you're either Scum or cheating...

Town

Yeah doesn't look like Monty's getting rope.

VOTE: Purrfect Panda
The Panda wagon has died purely through the dynamic duo lurking/avoiding any semblance of scum hunting.

And now Elmo claims to have insider information. When only scum would have any clue about setup.

Prolly town

unvote

vote: Purrfect Panda

Was looking at the front page and back here again in case I missed something.
That definitely looks like a slip to me.
Almost... intentional? :/

Prolly scum but not sure

V/LA till Friday.

Obv town. Would say nothing about what I did.

Holy shit, that's a slip completely and I will keep my vote off of Panda until they come in and explain themselves.
I am at the ready, though.

Scum staying off the wagon till it's the right time

It's funny how people react when you do something a bit crazy.

Last 2 posts were by

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

Absta. Please refrain from talking about my so called "death" and stop being stupid
Go read O397 Kthxbai.

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

Yeah I was like WTF when he did that but I am also used to Elmo doing crazy stuff in games.

There are only so many choices the scum can pick from the list, when I was in Open 397, we looked at all of them and decided to go with Vig, 1 shot Cop, and Innocent Child. And Elmo is right, I let my aggravation at Kassadin's play style drive me nuts, and he turned out to be the vig so the vig did not shoot him which was very annoying, and not just to me. Glow kept her cool, and that was what won us the game. As mod, Elmo had access to the Mafia QT of course, so he saw our reasoning and decisions. That is why he is able to figure out at least a couple of the ones that this scum team picked.

Meanwhile back to this game. I agree with Elmo that definitely Slandaar is town, along with Sawyer, BK. Stay tuned for ISOs next.

[Purrfect Panda]

HUGS ♥ DV welcome. This is the Rach half of the Hydra of RachMarie and Elmo Teh Azn


@Shamrock are you SURE there is a vig? It is a likely possibility, but only the scum know for SURE. Same question to you Slandaar (though I am thinking you are town that was an odd thing to say.)

Also @ Shamrock, do you have something more substantial? Or are you looking for an easy lynch? BTW on the BK is town part, both Elmo and I have played several games with him and this is typical of his town play. He tunnels he pushes heavily and often jumps to conclusions (not always the right ones).

[Purrfect Panda]

LOL I will pass that thought on to my bf who I may hydra with at some time :p You have been around long enough I am sure you know him he considers himself...... Nobody Special.

He will tell you I am a really sweet girl ♥


Meanwhile I think Elmo has given me enough to work with to come up with reads and get on with the program, after giving me a heart attack without warning me first lol

[Purrfect Panda]

Bah I have had major computer probs but its working now. When I get back tonight from my appt with the sleep study doc I will be doing those ISOs. I literally had to reboot my computer FIVE times yesterday

[Purrfect Panda]

@ Brandi All three of us, Glow, T and P, and myself all agreed no JK, so I doubt this scum team would pick that lol.

[Purrfect Panda]

I should clarify the above by pointing out that it is Elmo who is giving the OMGUS, and that that "you" was the collective "you". Damn English, and more importantly, damn hydras.

(I'm not nearly as much of a vet as my join date makes it look like I am. Before this July I hadn't played on this site since 2006.)

why does everyone think Panda's post was a scumslip, that conclusion makes no sense

if he said something like "there are three of us in this setup" that would be a scumslip

but "HERP DERP I HAVE INFORMATION ON THE SETUP" is not something that scum says by accident as a mistake, especially not one who has modded this setup before and knows how it works

he's still scum but it's not a scumslip

tldr: lynch panda

also:

Meanwhile I think Elmo has given me enough to work with to come up with reads and get on with the program

hmm it's almost like they're avoiding doing it or something

Great, now lynch Panda?

I don't think I understand what you're asking.

Uh, I want both of them dead, don't really care how it happens. Vig one and lynch the other, lynch both, whatever, both solutions work.

So Does anyone see anything wrong with these posts in context? I mean seriously It wreaks of scum. Honestly what town person would want another townie dead no matter the cost? Hmm..

Also I don't know what Rach is up to its really having me wonder what the hell >_>

VOTE: Shammy Shamm Rock
Can we lynch scum today please?

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

What retarded scum would ever put a JK in this setup. Seriously.

VOTE: Bk201

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

This vote is so scummy.
You never lynch a claimed power role, unless there is a CC. Then you rationalize it with the town.
Given the players in this set up, I wouldn't put it past scum to make a dumb pick and not think about it.
Yes it's highly unlikely but uh... there's still a chance he's telling the truth. If he's alive tomorrow we can lynch him.
But today? No.

Um no. We kill it with fire

[Purrfect Panda]

Sigh guys I have had a week and half or so of hell. First many days of intermittent internet and MANY phone calls to AT and T followed by even MORE phone calls when the modem completely died and the new one was not working either (seems they switched us over to the UVerse without making sure we had a new modem that worked with it). FINALLY have a new modem/router combo that works with Uverse instead of just DSL.

I am back though.

Will say here what I have said elsewhere I always have a tab open on Mafia but that does not mean I am on that tab at any particular time. I work from home and that means I usually have at least 15 tabs open on Firefox at all times and flip through them as needed.

[Purrfect Panda]

I was just reading thru my iso and Absta's does anyone notice he really only votes my slot? And pretty much acts like he has other suspects but seems to "afraid" to move his vote so "if" they flip scum or live thru the night it just goes by the wayside.

Either way my wagon is still shit. I'm only supporting a
Absta/BK/Shamrock lynch today.

And seriously. I never said if there's a JK I can't be scum. I'm just saying the odds are so low it's pathetic. Think about the big picture here. There are 2 scum safeclaims. And even then there's going to be a lot of WIFOM with them.

OH AND ALL YOU FUCKHEADS IN THE GAME! DEADLINE IS TODAY! IF I GRT LYNCHED YOU FUCKS HAS BEST BRING ABSTA TO THE GRAVE WITH ME BECAUSE I'LL 1V1 THIS SHIT RIGHT NOW!

VOTE: Absta

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!

[Purrfect Panda]

@BK

- You have my support.
VOTE: Nat

My vote on Nat is just sheeping BK. My vote on Panda is way more productive.

Vote: Panda

@Panda

- All my previous points still stand. Add the fact that you and Brandi mentioned JK before anyone else and you're looking more scummy than ever.

Seriously. This is like shooting fish in a barrel. Huehuehue imma sheep BK but my vote here is better because it's my top scum read. Seriously. You need to get the rope

[Purrfect Panda]

@Panda

- All my previous points still stand. Add the fact that you and Brandi mentioned JK before anyone else and you're looking more scummy than ever.

Trying to justify his vote on Panda to Panda.

I feel it

Absta/Natalie scumteam

Then join me on Absta

Sorry for the 3fer.
~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

I will be around here around 7 8 PM PDT (10 11 PM EDT) so if needed I will hammer then we definitely do not want a NL.

[Purrfect Panda]

And I know that though Elmo feels that Absta is his top scumspect he would NOT support a NL in this situation.


I thought we were getting an extension with the replacement.

[Purrfect Panda]

Welcome Reck. HUGS ♥ ''



This is the Rach half of the hyrdra (Elmo Teh Azn is the other head).

I have read through Nat's ISO to get some idea who her scum buddies are. Also been looking at the VCs to get some idea of voting patterns.

Considering how much Nat tunneled on Noraa/Brandi, I feel pretty confident she is probably town. I can't see that much energy just for a bus attempt. I think at least one of the scum was on Nats wagon though and am trying to narrow down who. Also there is likely to be one on our wagon. Will also look for any flip flops from the two wagons as well as checking the other wagons.

BK at this point, is in the town pile in my book as an un CCed PR, though it does seem odd to me that the scum team would pick JK, I know that in Elmo's version of this game we all 3 agreed on no JK it is a very powerful PR. Also some of the others are one or two shot while JK is every night. So I will be paying attention to what he does and will want to know who he jailed last night and why.

Vig needs to stay quiet though and not let the scum figure who he or she is. Bad enough that we have at least one possible PR outed this early. Since there were two deaths, we do know there is a vig. I also want to take a good look at Slandaar's ISO too because I have a feeling he was the one the scum were afraid of since Darklight was less active than even we were for the most part.

[Purrfect Panda]

ohhhh I am so envious Starbuck I love Cons they are so much fun. I volunteered at a couple of them in the Bay Area of California and had a blast. Have fun.


@BK your reasoning makes NO sense. One of 3 scenarios here.

1. You are town and JK and jailed someone who is town.

2. You are town and JK and jailed scum but not the one who did the kill.

3. You are scum and fake claiming JK.

Naming who you jailed in no way would tell us who the vig is. Also you did not get NKed instead Slandaar did. Your claim is a tad bit suspect here and letting us know who you jailed would help town a lot and not give much to scum.

[Purrfect Panda]

However I DO want to hear more from DV

looking at Monty's then DV's ISOs it seems very plausible it was a bus much more likely than with the Noraa/Brandi slot.

[Purrfect Panda]

I am sympathetic to what DV has to say about Sawyer up above. However, Panda is still so painfully obvscum that it hurts. I could go for either lynch but would prefer Panda.

VOTE: Purrfect Panda

More later when I have more time.

Let me know if you actually come up with a case this is so NOT a case

" They are scum because they are so painfully obvscum"??? WTF is that?

oh yeah it is called circular logic... not a case.... not actual scum hunting...

[Purrfect Panda]

@ Brandi

Without getting too much into WIFOM land since NK analysis can do that....

I do not see scum NKing a player who had not even voted etc over Slandaar who was fairly vocal and seemed quite towny. However I can see a vig shooting someone who was a mega lurker. Kassadin, in Open 397, shot an uber lurker first night someone we had planned on setting up for a mislynch the next day. If I were vig and not sure who was scum, the next best thing would be someone who the scum could use for lynch fodder. I may have been seriously annoyed by Kass but that was actually a good move on his part.

@Shamrock You are mega tunneling here dude... When we flip town who will you look at as scum? Do you have any suspicions besides oh they must be scum cause they are scum?

[Purrfect Panda]

oops forgot to say that it is the Rach head typing sorry

[Purrfect Panda]

umm Absta? Could you explain that post a tad I am kinda lost with it?

I am of course not 100% sure and still have a small bit of suspicion that I would have on someone who is not conf town, but I feel pretty good about Brandi being in our town pile.

I am not getting the push on DV though? Could someone explain the case you have on him? I kinda see him as more town.

Sawyer could you explain yourself a tad there? You changed your vote without any reasons or case listed.

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach head here I was re-looking at Nat's ISO and saw this...

Put it in spoiler for those who dont want to read the wall and then at the bottom is my points on this quote. It is post 383.

Spoiler:

Why would the vig out himself? And since he didn't and Elmo got reads from what he did, please explain how his actions were anti-town.

If someone essentially claims scum.
You -honestly- think that town is going to ignore it and scum are the only ones going to hop on?
In my experience, someone claiming scum causes scum too be confused/not vote. They are too paranoid about a townie claiming scum and don't want to take "easy" bait; etc.

So why aren't you jumping on Sawyer/Starbuck?

And town is actually very likely to quicklynch someone who claims scum. Why wouldn't they? Not every townie is cautious in that manner.
Like you said "responsible town"
Not every town is responsible.
I've seen townie's claiming scum ruin entire games.
Also I disagree with Slandaar's idea being "fool proof"
as I outlined in an earlier post.

I don't think he would've been quicklynched. And I don't think he claimed scum either.

Now, as I said claiming scum as town *could* cause the town to quicklynch you-
Now a townie that was a lot less likely to die that day- is dead. It's a distraction away from scum.

But he didn't claim scum and he wasn't quicklynched...so what's your point?

And then there's the whole "oh let's just have the vig shoot him"
-if he's town... that's wasting a VIG shot on a townie.

But you don't understand the plan. The only way for Panda to know if there is a vig in this setup is if he is scum or the vig. (And it's highly unlikely he's the vig) So if he doesn't get shot tonight, that means there is no vig and he isn't scum.

All he's accomplishing is likely getting himself killed, and as town, despite that sometimes you have to die- you should never go out of your way to die on the basis of WIFOMing reactions from the town.

He's only getting himself killed if he's scum.

There's also the fact that I'm town, I know I'm town- yet somehow my reaction was seen as scummy.
He's successfully caused suspicion on a town member.
IF HE IS TOWN, and if there is a vig- and for my reaction to the "slip" you were to lynch me today- that would be
-3 townies.

1 from me being lynched,
1 from the scum kill,
1 from the "vig" kill.

You are blowing this way out of proportion. First off, if he gets shot by the vig, he's scum. And if we lynched you and you somehow flipped town, that would be one scum, two town down. If he doesn't get shot, it's two town and no scum. Not three town.

That is how what he did was anti-town.
You can't rely on reactions to claimed scum. It just generates WIFOM.

But he didn't claim scum!

Do you seriously think scum would INTENTIONALLY slip? Please tell me you aren't that stupid. Oh wait, you are:

Yes. Scum would slip intentionally if they want to throw the game. Hence my ":/" face.

No one comes to that conclusion when analyzing a "slip".

Keep in mind that Purrfect Panda had suspicion on him previously. That wasn't the first time that he was called out for being scummy.

So you think he would risk getting banned, risk getting Rach banned (playing against your wincon) and lose the game for his team all because he has suspicion on him?

Here is your terrible justification of your actions, which I will go through line by line.

Justification for my actions? voting for claimed scum is nothing I need to justify.

Well you thought you had to justify it.

No he didn't. And if you thought he claimed scum, you would say more than this:

...

You should have been screaming "OMG ELMO SLIPPED, KILL HIM WITH FIRE" rather than "that definitely looks like a slip, almost intentional :/" But of course you know he didn't slip because you are scum.

...

I'm not going to repeat myself about how you would have acted if you actually thought he slipped.

"No true scotsman"
"Relativist fallacy"

Just because you don't understand my reaction doesn't mean my reaction wasn't legitimate. I already explained a couple pages back why I reacted in that manner, though.

So you DID justify your actions, by explaining how you reacted.

Where did anyone say that Elmo was dumb enough to slip?

Here:

I mean seriously ffs. You think I'm that stupid to say I'm scum like that.

No, that isn't saying he is dumb enough to slip.

What would you expect him to say if it was a gambit?

Do you believe any townie who claims they are gambiting just because they say that they are?
Do you believe that all gambits are made by the town?

No, but you are saying that only scum when do what Elmo did, when if you think about it, town would act the same way around a gambit.

I have been V/LA most of the game, so EXCUSE ME if I didn't give you a play-by-play of my scumreads.

Sorry. That's my bad for... scumhunting. I shouldn't have been doing that. It won't happen again...

You're so cool.

I just don't understand why you have time to tunnel Brandi the entire game rather than also taking the time to question, and comment on, your other scumreads. V/LA has nothing to do with who you decide to talk about.

Brandi is my main scumread, so I'm going to focus on her the most.

@Sawyer
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote Brandi? Stop dilly-dallying around it. Don't want to sound hypocritical for accusing me of placing my vote on obvscum Brandi?

I'm not dilly-dallying around anything. My vote is on who I think is mostly likely to be scum. Brandi is certainly moving on up though.

This boys and girls is what we call a leaping point. Sawyer can now hop onto Brandi's wagon once she does one thing scummy because she's "moving up" on his scumlist.

Sawyer, why do you think it is a better idea to vig Panda than to lynch him?

Are you even reading this game?

Absta's case on Sawyer has piqued my interest. I will analyze it soon.

Rereading this wall I want to point out that Nat was not wishy washy about wanting us vigged. She also was wrong since vigs can shoot townies just as easy as scum, and she knew that I am sure. So yeah had the vig shot us last night it would not have made us scum it would have made us town just like we said. Notice that she commented on Sawyer a bit but not much and certainly did not suggest voting for him. I find that very suspicious, but I need some agreement from Elmo here he prefers a different scumspect.

[Purrfect Panda]

I think it was more likely they figured they could WIFOM it into a mislynch today because they kept him alive and that Slandaar was too close for comfort for them on his scum hunting. Newbies might have just gone ahead and killed the claimed PR, but more experienced players are more likely to look at different ways to go. I dont think they expected us not to race to lynch BK today.

Does not look good for Absta or Sawyer. I may have to make a unilateral decision since I have not heard back from Elmo yet

[Purrfect Panda]

I had work to do including my show tonight. I am beat will respond more tomorrow.

If I hear from Elmo fine, otherwise I will post my case and my vote and hope he is fine with it.

[Purrfect Panda]

I will put together a case but basically Elmo is big on Absta being scum and since I have not heard back from him and I kinda think its very likely he is scum myself I will vote

VOTE: Absta



More to follow

[Purrfect Panda]

Do I think he's scum. Yes.
Am I happy with an Absta lynch yes.

Anything else aside maybe Starbuck getting rope. I like it.

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

It is a standard sane cop just that it only has one shot. LS was the one shot cop in the last game of this I played that Elmo modded.

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach you haven't given us anything. Stop using Elmo as an excuse.

I would like to to confir with me over somethings. >_>



VOTE: absta
Little more vocal here then you got in 430. And even then Mt votes torn between you and Noraaa right now. Slan is town (Sadly)


And the slip was based on if scum was 2/13 3/13. Its not hard to decipher. I also modded this setup last so yeah.

~ Elmo

You will note that Absta has ALWAYS been a scumspect of us, especially more so of the Elmo head. So yes I was looking primarily at Nat for Absta-Nat connections when I made that statement, Sawyer. So why are you SO convinced he is town? There has been suspicion on his slot from the very beginning. I don't think the wagon built up fast because he is town, I think it built up fast because a number of people think he is scum.

As for you, Sawyer, I am now looking more seriously at you as well. Especially with the soft defending of Absta you have been doing.



(Rach Head here). (cut part of the quote out that was not relevant to this point for brevity's sake.)

[Purrfect Panda]

Panda what do you guys think of Sawyer

I think he be scum. Also why is Absta not dead?

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

Panda what do you guys think of Sawyer

I think he be scum. Also why is Absta not dead?

~Elmo

If you turn out to be town, i'm never going to join a game with you ever again.

Then never join a game with me again then



~The Red Guy

[Purrfect Panda]

Ughhhh this game is so stalled

You guys realize we don't HAVE to wait until deadline to lynch absta right

Why are you in such a rush to lynch him?

~Elmo

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach head here, I have not heard from Elmo in a few days or so now, but I know based on previous convo, that he would be just fine with an Absta lynch. Personally I really think the reason they went after Slandaar instead of an un CCed JK, is that they saw Slandaar as a big risk. Which further makes me think that Elmo is right on this Absta thing.

So our vote stays put.

[Purrfect Panda]

holy cow guys n gals we have 4 days til deadline and there has not been a post in 13 hrs? Where did everyone go?

[Purrfect Panda]

Brandi why are you defending Absta so much? We have you in the town pile but it looks really suspicious you defending him like this. Would you rather have a NL today? We need the info too badly to have a NL today.

(Rach head)

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach head here... I thought we were lynching Absta? Elmo is still very convinced that he must be scum so unless we have a deadline issue, I plan on keeping our vote on Absta. I thought he had the most votes Starbuck? So why do you think you will be lynched?

@ Mod could we have a recent VC?

[Purrfect Panda]

Ninja'd by Reck lol.

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach head here...


Deadline is coming up guys and we seem to be at a standstill here.

1. Who is your top scumspects?

2. Who will you be willing to lynch before deadline if your scumspect does not have the votes ?

3. Who will you absolutely NOT lynch?


We need to come to a consensus or we will end up with a NL.


(My answers)

1. Absta (especially our Elmo head).

2. DV or Sawyer.

3. Starbuck. or Brandi



(Keep in mind that is from me the Rach head), but with the short time before deadline I probably will make the call.

[Purrfect Panda]

It is Brandi. I can't provide examples because game is ongoing, but I have seen this behavior from Reck before.

[Purrfect Panda]

The reason for 2 is to see how many are willing to switch to insure a lynch today.

[Purrfect Panda]

The reason for 2 is to see how many are willing to switch to insure a lynch today.

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach head here:

great we have lost our JK AND another townie in one night. And still we have people saying Absta is not scum bah.



VOTE: Absta

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach head again:

Elmo last time I heard from him was definitely adamant on his read on Absta as scum, and kinda leaning toward Sawyer also. I will compare their ISOs see if I see any interaction tween them to possibly be scum buds.

[Purrfect Panda]

I am looking for patterns. We have had one flip, there are two more scum. I went ahead and voted for Absta because that is Elmo's main scumspect, and I see enough to indicate he could be scum. Your white knighting of him though has set up my scumdar a great deal. Why are you so SURE he is town? I see two possibilities here :

1. You are scum and he is town and you are trying to get town cred for saving someone from a lynch.

2. Both of you are scum and you are trying to keep him from getting lynched.

[Purrfect Panda]

Naw, I think you're scum over Abs.
Shamrock is the biggest scumbag but no love for that lynch

Shamrock will be dealt with tomorrow.

???? And he was dealt with by being shot. And that seems to nail it on Absta pretty firmly.

[Purrfect Panda]

What?? he did the NK for the scum team and you are unvoting him?? why Brandi?

[Purrfect Panda]

the claimed JK who lived through N1 so some peeps were not so sure he was really a JK.

Still not sure why on earth the scum picked that PR for this game, it is bizarre.

So yeah if it is not Absta? Then who?

I have a fairly solid read of town on the following:

Brandi
Reck


I am leaning town on DV

Vox I am not sure on but leaning town with the not reading stuffs. I think scum would be more careful to keep track of everything.

That leaves Sawyer and Absta.

Absta was afraid of being lynched. I can find the post in his ISO if you want.

Absta has spent a LOT of energy being mad at people for voting for him, even called my other head crazy.

Absta also played the newbie card.

Absta pushed the Starbuck lynch incredibly hard, and was the reason it went through. Even got mad with Elmo's cryptic indication he would NOT support a Starbuck lynch.

And you wonder why both our heads think he might be scum?

[Purrfect Panda]

Wow Sawyer. Anything to protect your buddy eh?

(Rach head is now going to sleep it is 3 AM in California). Will check on things tomorrow.

Absta is Elmo's top scumspect, but you are my top scumspect.

[Purrfect Panda]

I am waiting for a response from Elmo. I the Rach head am pretty sure you are scum Sawyer.

[Purrfect Panda]

Fuck it... I am going with the one I think is most likely scum til we sort the CCs out. Sorry Elmo, but since I have not heard from you in over a week I gotta do this. Love you HUGS ♥

Pedit Umm Absta I was already voting for you and I believe so was Reck so that makes NO sense. Meanwhile I am switching to your scum buddy.

VOTE: Sawyer

[Purrfect Panda]

bahh nope not scum. Elmo's play in this game is VERY clearly his town play and I would be happy to provide links. And I was scum before in this setup in Open 397 with a hydra (T and P) and Glow. Elmo was the mod of that game BTW.

I don't think that Sawyer is a mislynch Vox. He has been pushing so hard on defending Absta. I think he is the scum buddy.

BTW Absta HAS fake claimed before. I can find the game for you. Us in the dead thread were going WTF??? It backfired on him badly.

[Purrfect Panda]

It was the only time I had ever seen a VT fake claim a PR which is why we all were so SURE he must be scum in the dead thread.

[Purrfect Panda]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4215413

Interesting. Okay.
I claim Doctor. I will protect Nost all the way through.

Taking into consideration the results of the mass claim. I highly advise a lynch of Techno.
If Techno scum lives. We loose. That's a fact.

Absta claimed Doc when he was VT. Newbie 1258

[Purrfect Panda]

Techno and I were scum in that game and I was having RL issues and he bussed me mega hard and I was lynched. The dead thread was a lively one though with us all chatting away lol.

[Purrfect Panda]

Brandi I did not say he fake claimed as scum in that game, I just said he fake claimed. Town almost lost that game because of him. Had I been alive I would have gotten him mislynched for sure on that one.

Which is why I went for the other scum.

@ Absta keep up that AtE and I will put my vote back on you that does nothing to help town. If you truly are the vig then you need to help town.

[Purrfect Panda]

Vig shot both N1 and N2 which means no more shots BTW. Remember I played and Elmo modded this setup before in Open 397.

2 shot Vig
1 shot Cop
Tracker
JK
Innocent Child
Can't remember offhand the other one.

We picked Innocent Child, 1 shot Cop and 2 shot Vig.

Which means the Vig is no longer really a PR.

[Purrfect Panda]

@ Vox

I do not see Sawyer voting for Absta. He has spent far too much time and energy defending him.

Had a telephone chat with Elmo a bit ago. He was venting a fair bit about the town in this game and may post soon. No clue what though. You think his posting is wild its more so when he is just talking lol.

I will be happy to hammer Absta. I am willing to vote Sawyer. I would even take Vox up on his suicide attempt. The two scum are definitely in those 3. I just do not see how anyone else could be scum.

Rach head order

Sawyer
Absta
Vox


Elmo order
Absta
Sawyer
and he did not say anything about anyone else save for the town is just screwing this game up and the lynch of Starbuck was just shit. I am still wondering why that lynch went through too. Starbuck was clearly town. bah.


As for lynching us, Elmo's response was go ahead it fits with everything else the town is doing. My response is agreed about the town and they should not lynch us because we really need to nail scum today so we don't go into tomorrow with 3 and 2 scum still alive.

Another thing about Sawyer and why I am feeling so strong on him is he is vividly reminding me of Metabot in Newbie 1206. I was doc in that game and LS and Meta were scum. Meta championed me so hard he made me unlynchable all game. We got LS earlier on and I made a bad choice to protect the wrong person and our cop got killed. (had a guilty on Meta too). I picked the wrong one in Lylo. I picked Elmo as scum. Meta and LS won that game. When I see someone being so intent on defending someone like that everything in me says SCUM.

[Purrfect Panda]

Also I researched Code's ISO and it definitely seemed very town. I do not see why people were thinking he was scum just cause of the lurking. He then replaced out due to realizing he did not have time and it took a long time to get a replacement. Vox threw me a bit so that is why I went back to his predecessor.

[Purrfect Panda]

Only person voting for Vox is Absta and it is easy to see that from the last VC the page before this one.

Any more excuses Sawyer?

[Purrfect Panda]

L-2, Reck and Vox. Vox just revoted him since last VC. But he does not get 2 votes, even if he wanted to


We got time for him to wake up. So if you want to put him at L-1 I will do an intent to hammer and give him time to wake up and respond before hammering him.

Though I do not think we have any derpy quich hammer types here (unless Reck is drunk and well he is already on the wagon, sorry Reck had to say that I wanted to shake you for hammering Starbuck.)

[Purrfect Panda]

Absta did you say what you wanted to say?


INTENT TO HAMMER


Pedit I guess not Let me know when you are done.

[Purrfect Panda]

BTW Why are you so frantic Absta? You should know that Vox is setting himself up to be lynched tomorrow if he is lying about his CC? Your freaking out about being lynched after both shots the vig had are done seems very scummy in itself.

[Purrfect Panda]

I have to agree. Instead of begging us not to lynch you why are you not actively scum hunting. Something more than Vox is scum cause he is trying to get me lynched?

VOTE: Absta

[Purrfect Panda]

VOTE: Sawyer

Let us lynch Absta's sumbud now for a win.

[Purrfect Panda]

Brandi I am pretty sure it is Sawyer he was the one dancing all over himself trying to prevent us from lynching Absta.

@ DV probably because Reck was one of those who held firm about Absta being scum.

[Purrfect Panda]

I will not lynch Brandi or Reck or self lynch.

I am pretty sure Elmo would agree.

I am though even more sure it is Sawyer.... Look how he is tarring Reck and I to try to sway Brandi and DV...

Pedit, I wanted to get input from my other head (Elmo), and it was looking at that point like the Absta wagon was going down, so I wanted to vote for his scum buddy Sawyer. I was not as sure as Elmo was about Absta (he was right). I was much more sure about Sawyer. Elmo called me up and reiterated LYNCH absta. Which is why I moved my vote back to him, while making a clear case of the connection tween him and Sawyer. Difference is Reck, I still was scum hunting, and Sawyer was just focused on getting everyone to stop voting for Absta and vote either for Vox or for Elmo and I.

He is so flailing scum here...

[Purrfect Panda]

I will answer your question Brandi

Biggest town read is you

Biggest scum read is Sawyer.

Feel strongly that Reck is town.

If we are actually wrong about Sawyer though I don't think we are, then it has to be DV. He is the weakest of my town reads.

and I know we are town, no matter how much Sawyer tries to play it that we are scum.

So my vote is right where it ought to be.

[Purrfect Panda]

Panda makes perfect sense Sawyer is scum.

[Purrfect Panda]

Wait a minute ? I thought we had already confirmed all 3 PRs in this game how can there be four?


UNVOTE: Sawyer



grumble grumble Innocent Children are so annoying and most of the time so anti town.

[Purrfect Panda]

wow Brandi you ok girl?

[Purrfect Panda]

Back to the game stuffs, Elmo says if it is not Sawyer (and we know that now), it must be Reck. He is not the most communicative of sorts to work with here. I will go through the Kyle/Reck ISO see if I agree with my other head. I really was SO SURE it had to be Sawyer. I am so not fond of Innocent Children as a role. I actually kinda thought if we had that role that it was Brandi.


@ Sawyer give it a rest I really DID think you were scum for the defending of Absta, and though Elmo was not as sold on it, he saw a case for it too. We need to focus on finding the last scum and it ain't us.

[Purrfect Panda]

I have to agree with you there Sawyer, I just do not see the Noraa now Brandi and Nat going for those mud wrestling sessions and her being scum along with Nat.

So I am fairly sure Brandi is town, I know that Elmo and I are town, and I know you are the Innocent Child and therfore conf town.

That leaves DV or Reck

I will look at both their ISOs and see if I can get a peep from Elmo on what he thinks.

[Purrfect Panda]

bah I am town and so is Elmo.

my read on Sawyer sucked... it happens.

Elmo is well known for doing crazy stuffs as town. We just finished Open 427 and Elmo voted for the wrong person even though the last scum in the 3 p LYLO was trying so hard to avoid voting til the other 2 voted, and then Peta slammed the hammer on Venmar and game over scum win.

[Purrfect Panda]

I messed up Reck got two games mixed up. The PR was a neighborizer.

[Purrfect Panda]

I see Sawyer is still tunneling on town instead of finding scum bah. Could you like do something that actually helps town?

Elmo seems to have pretty much disappeared on me due to RL stuffs. So I guess I will finish this game off without much from my other head.

This is not easy... But based on the interaction D 1 I just can not see Brandi being scum with Nat.

The way Reck pushed the wagon on Absta I just can not see him being scum.

Sawyer is conf town

I am town.

Which leaves by PoE


VOTE: DV

[Purrfect Panda]

Last thing Elmo said in our hydra thread was Must be Reck. But he never came back and clarified why he thought that. And I just don't see it. Bussing a scum bud is done a lot but he pushed too hard on Absta it just did not feel like scum bussing scum.

[Purrfect Panda]

uggh Sorry DV


I guess it must be Reck then but why on earth did he bus Absta so hard?

[Purrfect Panda]

something

[Purrfect Panda]

Ok no rushing here we are in Lylo.

I am going to take a really good look in ISO on both of you. I know one of you is town and one of you is scum....

Elmo thinks it is Reck.... at least last time I talked to him. He has had some RL stuffs going on so no time for game atm.

I have had some RL stuffs going on too

(off topic totally my first book is up on Amazon Kindle woot)..

Back to the game, give me some time to reread and check out ISOs again...

[Purrfect Panda]

Brandi

Do you have anything substantial or is it just the attitude you are responding to:? The attitude is more a play style not a tell.

[Purrfect Panda]

uggh well one of you is scum and one of you is town grrr I hate Lylo

[Purrfect Panda]

Sorry not sure where Elmo is. Things have been pretty busy for me.

If you two vote for me town loses for sure.

I am about at the point where I am going to go with Elmo's last point.

VOTE: Reck

[Purrfect Panda]

YAY we did it

I am glad I listened to Elmo He was right

Thanks everyone it was different playing a hydra (especially with Elmo having so little time and having to figure so much out on my own.)

( still am not fond of the Innocent Child role

[Purrfect Panda]

Wait how do you figure that Sawyer kept us from being Nked? Seemed like a lot of suspicion of us happened?

[Purrfect Panda]

Hey Absta no hard feelings honey I just knew (and Elmo definitely knew) you were scum