Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[Cartographer]

Hello, players

I have been reading the thread. I am not finished. I will make a comment soon.

[Cartographer]

Demon, I do not understand your statement. I have a similar birthdate. How would you know this?

Rainbow, in this post you call Apple town for questioning ending a "reaction test". Why is that town?

DoomYoshi, your comment to inte is a bad reaction in my opinion. Can you explain that reason for that snipe?

In the same post, you talk address inte much more cordially. Do you not hold your opinion of the first post?

For the record, I do not find fault with inte's posts. I think he is town.

D3f3nd3r, here you do not make an attempt to find scum. Where is your motivation? Your probing into the thoughts of the other players?

Rainbow x2, in this post you make a comment that Bitmap claiming Vanilla would be a towntell and anything else a scumclaim. Is this true for other players, or specifically Bitmap?

Apple, can you explain silly? Moreover, can you explain the difference between Solidstate's actions and DoomYoshi's actions? Both look "eager" to me; however, I have come to the opposite conclusions that you have. I think Solidstate is town.

I do not like this. You say Elmo is scum when the fast wagon was forming, but now he is town? In both cases you do not explain why he is either alignment.

---

I think that is everything I had on my mind.

At this time, I call others not voting DoomYoshi to vote him.

Vote: DoomYoshi

Yabba

, I will not be able to access the computer over the weekend. I will be back on Monday.

[Cartographer]

I am back after a brief vacation. I will make a post after 5 o'clock today. Perhaps earlier, if I can find time.

Thank you.

[Cartographer]

We seem to agree that solidstate is town, so I don't see what the disagreement is...?

We agree

now

, yes. At the time of your post, you were calling other players town, mentioned DoomYoshi and Solidstate, and withheld your opinion of Solid. I am sorry if this seems too trivial or argumentative, Apple; but what was your read at the time of the post I originally mentioned?

Rainbow, why have you not answered my questions? Moreover, you will explain the "obvious" conclusions you mentioned in this post. Not everyone is used to the formalities or concepts of this site. I hope I am not just saying that about myself.

I am surprised no one said anything about this after you specifically said in this post that you withhold information as scum.

I have a problem with your play, Rainbow. This problem also slightly applies to Applejack as well. However, I fear I may be close minded with regards to Applejack. I just do not trust her. Continuing, Rainbow (and Applejack) you both are calling numerous players town at a very early stage in the game whilst only passively pushing the players you are calling scum. Where is your conviction? Where is your reasoning?

Before I forget, Apple, I very much dislike your comment toward inte. The comment tiptoes the line of sleuthing for his role and contributes largely to the reason that I do not trust you.

McStab, is this your normal behavior?

Seilkops, who are you referring to when you say 2 conf townies? I hope yourself and DoomYoshi?

Yabba

, my second post contains a tag error (a URL tag error to be more specific). Could you correct it, please?

Fixed! ~yabb

Many thanks.

Potentially more when I get home. I have to go now.

[Cartographer]

I can see what you're saying if inte was trying to defend D3f3nd3r, but he's not; he's basically said to let D3f3nd3r be vigged. Rhetorical question: Can you think of any role where that sort of request is justified?

No.

You gave me the information that I wanted. Thank you.

I dont tend to get too riled up about town reads until they are under attack, then I go all loyalty mode and tend to defend them more then they defend themselves. Defender is scum for continually avoiding taking stances on most of the game, no clue why he is voting AJ right now and the only thing he really has commented on is apparently liking Elmo for town because he was victim of a random wagon.

I think there is a misunderstanding between us. Are you answering my question of "where is your conviction?" about town reads? I meant your scum reads. I apologize if that was not clear.

I am willing to take up the torch if you die, Rainbow. I cannot do that unless you explain what exactly I should be carrying. (lol)

Demon, you have not answered my question. I will quote it here.

Demon, I do not understand your statement. I have a similar birthdate. How would you know this?

I think I should clarify. Birthdate is the date under your avatar - the date you joined the site. I did not know what else to call it.

I am in the same boat as McStab. I really cannot look past DoomYoshi's play. If he is a doctor I will be saddened.

I am going to follow Applejack and Rainbow until I can manage my own bearings.

unvote

vote: Defender

Yabba

, I am sorry to ask this again. I have made yet another URL mistake. (lol) Would you please correct it? It is this post.

[Cartographer]

Wow. 2 posts in the time it took me to compose mine.

Seilkops, I believe I have answered your question without reading it. (lol)

[Cartographer]

Demon, would you mind telling me your other account? So far we already have one other alt - Applejack.

[Cartographer]

Ah! I remembered what I wanted to ask Rainbow.

I sat here for 10 minutes trying to remember what was missing. (phew)

Rainbow, here you say that Solid's posts have been awful. How were they awful? I think they show him as town.

I am very worried I am playing this game incorrectly. I have contrasting reads with several older players.

[Cartographer]

If that is what you wish, Demon.

[Cartographer]

Are you calling me an alt? I am not on alt.

Are you a Slaxx alt?

[Cartographer]

I am very tired tonight. I will be able to get to those tomorrow, sometime.

I thank those who are taking up the reigns of my suspicions.

I do not feel comfortable voting the same person Rainbow is voting.

unvote

[Cartographer]

Rainbow, your insubordination is very frustrating. If this was a pirate ship I would have shot you a long time ago.

Can you please give reasons other than "isn't it obvious" and "I have reasons"?

Many thanks.

[Cartographer]

VOTE: Solidstate

The case that mcstab presented on me, which you agreed with included two parts I would like to draw your attention to:
A) Elmo quicklynch. Defender was anti-Elmo wagon AND so were you!
B) I was lurker voting. Since you can't be voting for defender for the anti wagon comments, you must be voting him for lurking. If i am scummy for lurker voting, why is it ok when you do it?

Basically, you seem to be jumping on any wagon with wheels.

Which two areas in McStab's case are you talking about in reference to A and B?

Help me help

you

. Help me understand your point of view.

I am reading Solid's answer to your post and I agree mostly with his line of thought. While I do view some of his comments as over the line such as "knowing for sure is scummy because only scum know for sure" I think of the motivation behind the statement as town.

inte, I believe I addressed your suspicion here.

I freely admit that my reasoning was to follow Rainbow and Applejack. However, I did not agree with the overall tone Rainbow used to call Solid scummy leading me to suspect his motives. I looked at his reasoning for voting D3f3nd3r and I could not find any. This troubled me. In this post Rainbow votes D3f3nd3r. It is not until this post that Rainbow quantifies the reasoning behind the vote.

Why the sudden rbd hatred?

Hatred is a loaded word. Both in the context of this game and the context of life as a whole. I believe it is fairly well documented in my posts that I do not like (they have a very nifty feature found here) Rainbow's tendency to assume the obvious and deal in vagueness.

Rainbow, do you actually need to mull over voting Solid when D3f3nd3r, the person you were just voting, votes him as well?

You are willing to vote the same person your scum read is voting?

I am very busy tonight so this is likely to be my only post today.

[Cartographer]

I have not fallen in a hole! I have been very busy.

I will try to get to this game later today. I make no promises !

[Cartographer]

Greetings! I am back! Apologies for the extended V/LA. I was very busy over the last several days due to unforeseen circumstances.

I will be making a post here later today.

[Cartographer]

Yes. Im willing to say both of them are probably not scum, but that doesnt mean one isnt scummy town and I need to figure out which one that is.

When defender gives his reasoning I will follow up with mine and probably vote for one of them.

You are waiting for something that is very unlikely to occur. Please supply the reasoning that you have for thinking solid is scum. In addition, you talk about theory and how information from town members about their role will help us trap scum through mass claim. However, you suspect both to be not scum and want to lynch them? In total, that is poor judgment.

AppleJack, Buck! Get to work. I hardly consider your "slog" to be up to par.

inte, whilst I agree that is a rather weak point against D3f3nd3r. I forgot your opinion of him. You want him to be killed, but not lynched, correct?

@people saying Solid is scum. I am willing to concede that this post is bad.

I find Solid's honesty about D3f3nd3r's wagon and attacking a lurker to be honest and motivated by town ambitions. However, the rhetoric employed, specifically the "vague" comments and the questions at the end slightly undermine my confidence in calling him town. He is being antagonistic against D3f3nd3r, who we all know will not react or give the information he seeks. inte's comment that I mentioned above is bad for this reason as well.

at this point in time, would you shoot d3f3nd3r if he was not lynched?

Nope. Never shoot outside of exceedingly rare situations (confirmed scum, forced win, confirmed game goes to and stays at odd numbers)

Vigs will lose town the game far far more then win it.

I fail to see the difference given that you are currently voting D3f3nd3r.

inte, how am I being scummy?

You have given 0 reasons for suspecting me. You have only called other players to vote for me. Why?

Rainbow, please get off your high ... wait. Posts that sound as insincere as this one are why I distrust you Rainbow.

Your arrogance and ego are distracting you.

However, thank you for finally posting the theory.

Rainbow, you think these actions are town?

Posts like this and this strengthen my read in solid being town.

McStab's post here also has town motivation in my opinion. The tone, the call to pressure Rainbow, it all looks organic.

Bitmap is already a pretty decent townread for me. Treating rbd with that healthy dose of paranoia early game makes me feel pretty good about him

And why not add this analysis in for McStab?

Judging from your post, you view McStab as town?

Applejack, please poke at theory. I also believe I addressed yourconcerns answering inte.

I would also like your reasoning behind solidstate scum.

Nacho, have you even read the game?

Are you voting for me based on my actions or my predecessor's actions?

This needs to stop.

VOTE: Rainbow

I will be back later.

[Cartographer]

Ok, perhaps I am wrong about solid.

UNVOTE: most likely scum
VOTE: Defender

Why that wording?

[Cartographer]

This needs to stop.

No, it does not, and I'm not about to reveal anything to you.

Unvote, Vote: Cartographer

Quick post on break.

There is a reason I left "this" to be vague. What exactly is the "it" you are thinking, Apple?

[Cartographer]

AppleJack, I have no answer. Simply confusion.

Rainbow, it is an accumulation of many oddities I dislike about your play. I will explain tomorrow hopefully.

Your arrogant post was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Demon, feel better. I hope we will get to play again.

[Cartographer]

That is possibly true. I have not examined my own opinions to see whether or not it is true.

I will probably do that this weekend when I have more time to just think about everything.

[Cartographer]

Yoshi, you were apologetic about your play. Why do you continue to act the same way?

I am trying to see you as town, but you are making it very difficult.

Nacho, I think inte struck a cord with you

Also, how do I go from town to you willing to post a case? Have I completely misinterpreted this post?

Asuza asian name, when did you compile those notes? Were you watching the game before you entering it?

At this point I am calling D3f3nd3r town because of his obstinate refusal to do anything. Unfortunately he may have to be killed despite my opinions about his alignment.

Rainbow, please explain your reasoning for voting D3f3nd3r. Calling your vote on him a semi-policy lynch is an easy way to move the vote when it is no longer advantageous for you.

Especially after posts like this, this, and this.

In my opinion, your entire approach of D3f3nd3r is an ebb and flow of pressure mimicking the town's thought toward him at the time.

In addition, why did you suddenly drop the solid scum read? I am still waiting for these "exact amount of points" that you promised. Your sudden reversal of a read on solid is suspicious because you made it as if you already had the case/points made when you said "exact amount of points". However, this is true?

Where is everyone deriving this mystery town tell about solid? Asuza, why would you not want your town tell clarified, since you only "think" you see it? You want the setup clarified first?

Solid's alignment is not related to the setup. Are you all saying he said something about his role that would be a town tell?

How do you believe Apple is backing up her reads genuinely when she completely voted me for bogus reasons thinking my wagon would go somewhere.

Am I the one that needs to take a step away from the game and analyze everything?

I believe this is the fourth time that someone has expressed dislike for my Rainbow sheep, then fear of Rainbow. Look through my iso and Crtl + F rainbow. My response is to inte and I explain my actions there. Please read.

Speaking of reading, Nacho, how can you say you read, when you voted for my predecessor? I had forgotten to mention this when addressing you earlier.

To answer your question, my vote would most likely go to utility in lynching D3f3nd3r. Outside of that I would like Applejack to die.

I am curious about your inte read. I have not really been paying attention to inte. However, his refusal to state anything about my slot in terms of reasoning is annoying and contradictory. 1) inte wishes that D3f3nd3r not be lynched, 2) inte wishes for Cartographer to be lynched, 3) inte never gives reason as to why, yet pleads for my lynch

One would think logically he would present a case, give reasoning and move the town away from D3f3nd3r's lynch and onto my lynch. Why doesn't he? It is not for a lack of time certainly.

He is willingly sitting on the sidelines

saying

how much he wants me lynched and

saying

how much he wants D3f3nd3r to be vigged, but outside of

saying

those things he does nothing to achieve his wishes.

inte, I hope you like being wrong by .4%. I wish I could answer and clarify my actions to convince you to do something useful. However, I am not Siv. The only aspect of your play saving me from calling you town is your obsession with keeping your vote on my slot.

I've said it once in response to Rainbow. Please do not deal in vagueries. List reasons for your suspicions. Part of how I catch mafia is looking at people's opinions throughout the game on certain others. Letting yourself settle is fine, as long as you say so. Remaining vague in your suspicions only leaves people like me to assume. Giving a clear reason for your suspicions allows me and potentially others to understand your point and investigate.

The gist of my Rainbow suspicion is in this post. I am really very tired and I have to read two other games so I say good night to all of you in this thread.

[Cartographer]

Have you played mafia before?

Have you played mafia on this site before?

I ask because your creation date is today. And you are already very familiar with the game as a whole. That is not something I expect unless experience is in your background.

Another question, why this game?

[Cartographer]

I am sorry if I confused. My curiousity about the inte read is not your particular read. (lol) It was a mental note to myself to look at inte.

I accept that you have no explainable reason to distrust my explanation. I have tried my best at explaining it and I grow tired from talking about to so many different people when I specifically point out my explanation several times. People are not reading my posts.

I probably need to be more concise.

I promised myself I would go to bed but I am posting here. (lol)

About the town tell, I do not care about the town tell in determing solid's alignment. I think solid is town, whether he exhibited a "tell" or not. I want other people to explain their reads on solid. That way I can follow their logic throughout the game.

Tying people to an opinion is half the battle to catching scum. You force them to stick with that logic for the rest of the game. Of course there are caveats that explain the other half of catching scum.

However, since so many other people prefer to live the life of vagueries I will not explain those caveats now. Perhaps after the game has fleshed out for a day or two.

Remind me about this post.

[Cartographer]

Rainbow, I do not want to make a case. I want

you

to explain the exact amount of points you mentioned. If that means making a case, then yes, I would like to see it.

You sound frustrated that I am perpetually asking you questions.

I am sorry if I make this game boring for you. That is not my intention.

[Cartographer]

I may be going away this weekend. I will try to post something if I am.

[Cartographer]

So you've either made yourself an early kill if you're town or you're scum and you're leading town astray; neither is optimal play as town.

I find this statement to be town motivated. It correlates with his actions toward Yoshi. He does not get off Yoshi and imply like others that if he is alive we should lynch him. Here implies that with Rainbow's death. The speculation is present here, but not with Yoshi. I find that to be town.

I am willing to lynch him considering I think the other wagons other than Rainbow are likely to be on town.

I just deleted all of my post.

I hate myself.

In conclusion, the catch 22 comment from solid I think to be very town minded.

I would like the points that Asuza mentioned in reference to me be addressed.

Also, Nacho, I have been the only quantifying suspicion on Rainbow. How does that make sense for me to be scum from your point of view?

I am so conflicted.

VOTE: McStab

(L-3)

[Cartographer]

Apple, I take offence to your accusations that I am fishing for the tell when I have states before the tell was discussed that I find solid town.

Did I not post my reasoning for tying people to reads and reasons in this thread?

[Cartographer]

I realize my vote is not the best because multiple people have pointed it out.

I am very tired. I was not expecting games on this site to physically and mentally require so much from me. I simply want someone to die.

Ideally I would get Rainbow, but I voted MS because he was more likely to be lynched and I did not think I would be able to get Rainbow lynched.

I am sorry for my recent play.

[Cartographer]

So much anger. Please stop being angry.

Inte in referring to yor statement that you have never had a larger scum read on someone in your life.

I do not whether that makes me bad as a town member, or you bad as a scum hunter. I really am that .4% chance you are wrong.

I will address everyone tomorrow.

[Cartographer]

Okay. I've clearly lost any control I ever had of my impulses here, and I have better things to do than to waste energy hating on a game that I am refusing to replace out of due to sheer stubbornness. Lynch me or whatever; when I flip town, I fully expect McStab to die so that I can cuss him out again in the graveyard QuickTopic. If neither McStab nor I die today, I am replacing out on Day 2 because hell will have to freeze over before I even consider continuing.

Please don't do this, Apple.

This threat in addition to her highly emotional spree of posts makes me feel better about this slot. Otherwise it is painting a huge red target on her back. She is doing this without regard to the opinions of others. While there are niggling problems with her earlier posts specifically the caginess of her votes, I don't see this rapid mood swing coming from scum.

You asked to place a vote on either you or D3f3nd3r. I have an answer.

VOTE: D3f3nd3r (L-1)

I strongly encourage you to remain in this game come Day 2.

To answer your question about my McStab vote. It was purely to get a lynch. I thought the deadline was sooner. I didn't think I would have the willpower or the persuasiveness within the town to get Rainbow, my primary suspect, to get lynched. I can see that has not changed at all. I predict it wouldn't have changed with my support as well...

I finally understand the tiered system now. I don't know why it takes me so long to see readily apparent things. First, the solid tell.I spent many minutes staring at that post and still don't completely recognize it. Now the claiming in tiers.

I have a problem with Rainbow's recent post detaling McStab's demise or possible plan of actions. First, is that not the move that McStab did to Apple? Predicting her vote based on previous posts and play? Second, even if there is a distinction (which I doubt) why would you detail the logic behind McStab's alignment based on deaths tonight?

I am not going to elaborate the second until after Rainbow posts.

[Cartographer]

I am here. Sickly but here.

I am play with a mass claim given McStab's claim.

[Cartographer]

There is one easy way to control the vig/SK. Give them an ultimatum that if they do not follow they will be Lynched.

This essentially gives us a secon lynch that the mafia must account for during the night of it threatens one of their own.

Moreover, the same associations and "tells" apply for this second, night time, lynch as they do for the normal lynch. Do not be swayed by someone saying "shoot x" and x is scum.

In my opinion, everyone not already claimed should "know" at least 5 roles of the 10 people.
This is only if we believe the players who have claimed and we assume one person's role (Bitmap).

We know seilkops is an innocent child.
We know DY is a doctor.
We know McStab is a 1-shot roleblocker.
We know that a full roleblocker exists.
We know that Bitmap is (presumably) a vanilla townie.
We know a vigilante/SK exists.
And then you know your own role.

We risk losing this knowledge advancement by going into night. However, we can minimize the risks by either not lynching in that group (I don't feel particularly bad about anyone in that group) and by directing the Vig/SK.

However, I am new at this and I am willing to fall back on Rainbow's judgment and wait until Day 3.

I stand behind my solid state town read.

I am sorry for my absence. This sickness is horrible.

[Cartographer]

Nacho, why did you assume TTTBBMD when McStab claimed?

[Cartographer]

You shouldn't vote me because I am not scum and you shouldn't vote Solid because he is likely not to be scum.

What is the case against me?

[Cartographer]

Bitmap I am sorry to hear about your kidney stones.

[Cartographer]

Bitmap, I am waiting for your response. Why am I scum? Where is your reasoning?

I will not be around Saturday. I will post my thoughts later tonight.

[Cartographer]

I extend my question to everyone who thinks I am scum.

[Cartographer]

I'm not scumhunting? Have you read my posts?

I'm the one that began pushing Rainbow. This is the same stunt that Inte pulled yesterday.

[Cartographer]

And why do you think we even have a SK?

[Cartographer]

Two Reasons

Process of Elimination; I can't think of anyone who would be his scum partner
Gut feeling, based on his recent posts.

Guess I should clarify that a bit.

His recent "why do you think I am scummy" post I am reading as an attempt to bring players into a battle of rhetoric. That used to be my scumslip, so I am extra keen on it. By forcing players to give reasons, he is giving himself a way to defend and/or twist words without ever addressing the points - mainly his lack of town motivation.

I am inebriated. I still cannot find the logic for these posts.

I have no buddies. Therefore I must be SK.

Or, I have no buddies. Because I cannot have any buddies. Because I am town.

As SK, why would I kill either of those two players?

More importantly, how do you even know it is an SK? How do you know it isn't a vigilante?

[Cartographer]

You're thinking Mafia killed RBD and then Vig shot Inte, Cart? That's a possibility. If we do have a Vig in the mix. That's probably what did happen. That might actually make more sense than assuming an SK did it since it seemed like Inte was the type to go on the block anyhow.

The thing bothering me about Cart and DY right now is the argument over specific factions. People who spend a lot of time chasing after a specific scum faction tend to be scum themselves.

I am not arguing over specific factions. DoomYoshi is using logic and reasoning to say that I am a specific faction when there is only one distinction currently publicly known, maybe two if we trust that everyone has told the truth, when that evidence is inconclusive.

That is a possibility. However, as a vigilante I would have shot Rainbow.

Also, a FUCKING RETARD VIG or an SK would have shot last night.

Show me where

you

thought this before today.

You have not answered my questions.

[Cartographer]

For what its worth, I agree McStab is super scummy. His scumslip (made while accusing me of one) would probably be enough to lynch him if he didn't have the prior claim. BUT, given the claim, it doesn't make much sense to lynch him now unless we go for the full massclaim.

What scumslip?

I don't think Zabriel is scum. Town v town is a comment I see stated by scum because they are the only ones that actually know that information. Zabriel has been around for a while, I think he would realize that and avoid saying that statement at all costs. The motivation behind his post looks genuine as well. I am referencing the wifomy scum motivations here. I don't think he would be saying these things as scum.

I have too many town reads.

[Cartographer]

Anyone saying that using their power is a modkillable offense is brain dead.

I figured you didn't actually say that and instead you are carrying the mantle of someone dead. I don't remember it being AJ though. I thought it was Rainbow.

I wish I could play as badly as some of you and fall back on a safe power role claim to make me townie.

Nope. I am being voted for "PoE and then some".

[Cartographer]

Lurking is a term that can only be backed up by overall activity on the site.

If you had bothered to do any research on your suspect (me) you would know I replaced out of two other games because I was very sick.

You would also realize that overall I do not have much time to commit.

Im sorry that I cannot devote as much time as you do, McStab. I am also sorry I do not have a claim that will save me like you do.

But before you even begin to define my activity as lurking you can go fuck yourself with a fleshlight embedded with razors.

Compromise is what I did yesterday. And if you read my posts you would see that I did exactly as I was saying. I have kept nothing from this town but you are fabricating reasons that I am.

[Cartographer]

Actually, no. I am the Vigilante.

I killed Rainbow last night.

Go fuck yourself raw.

[Cartographer]

Unvote

till Carto confirms his claim. Also Carto if you really claimed that was the dumbest possible reason/time to do so, so if you feel any satisfaction from proving me wrong then don't, because you've replaced being predictable with being stupid.

There will be no mass claiming today.

I am not the SK. I am not Mafia. And as some of you already guessed, I am not the vigilante. I am a VT.

The fact that I was not immediately COUNTERCLAIMED by anyone means the vig is an SK.

I think I know who it is given the reactions.

I think Zab is scum for acknowledging me as an SK before everyone checked in.

I accept the fact that Lying means I must be lynched.

[Cartographer]

I was already going to be lynched. Might as well flush out any potential SK.

[Cartographer]

@Cart: You are an impulsive 4-shot day-vig. Who do you shoot?

Nacho
Zabriel
Bitmap
And Solid to make you guys stop bitchig

[Cartographer]

I was already going to be lynched. Might as well flush out any potential SK.

with two votes on you?
and share with us what you've gained, please.

There was an overall sentiment of me being the one to get lynched. It is pretty selfish but I almost want to be lynched. I don't have the time I need for this game.

I've learned that Zabriels reaction was one of assumption jumping to SK without waiting for a potential counterclaim or full claim.

I've learned that if any of the other townies were Vigilante they woul counterclaim who they shot, if they shot, and if they were Vigilante.

I know Nacho waited a long time while he was active on the site to post in this specific thread.

DD person's reaction appears to originate from town suspicion.

DY's ridiculous stuff is sp weird I don't think it could from from anything other than town.

Glados's inspection of me looks town as well.

I think Solid is town but everyone else thinks other wise so I am willing to "shoot" him for town. I understand some of the anti Solid sentiment.

[Cartographer]

I am going to bed.

VOTE: Zabriel

[Cartographer]

Glados, I am not retracting my claim of VT. I am a VT. Im not a vigilante, SK, or Mafia.

Would it have been believable if I said I shot inte? I don't think so. Plus, I felt that scum might want Rainbow to live longer given the paranoia surrounding her. Saying I shot Rainbow was a weigh to observe others' reactions.

I do not thik Zab is SK? I said his conclusion of jumping to me being SK is interesting as not everyone had posted yet. It bleeds prior knowledge. I think Zab is Mafia.

I realize that not all vigilantes will counterclaim another vigilante, but I didn't see any hint of people believing my claim through their own claim. I could be wrong, but there were very few posts between my claim and then my retraction so I could watch for something specific. In this case, plausibility from soleone's point of view.

[Cartographer]

In what world is what I said a misrep? It is fact. You immediately jumped to thinking I was SK.

I never made any indication that I thought you were mafia for the kill on inte. I said specifically I thought you were mafia for jumping to conclusions before any reasonable townie would do so.

I don't know who killed who but if I had to temper a guess I would say Nacho as SK would want inte to die, and Rainbow would be killed by mafia.

Zabriels reaction is curious as he is attacking what I am attacking him with. He isn't defending that he isn't scum.

[Cartographer]

I really don't think DY would do this. I had already claimed and lied. Why needlessly out himself? He could ride
the LaL sentiment for a day or more.

Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?

[Cartographer]

Why him over me?

I have some things to say but they will come later today. Probably tonight im going to a birthday party.

[Cartographer]

I am pretty sure that DY is town

Nacho pushin that Case is suspect

I forgot to post On Friday VLA until tomorrow.

[Cartographer]

Gladis I liked you

To answer your question, I think Nacho is SK. I think Zab is mafia.

Nacho's push against DY yesterday looked like a self preservation move.

[Cartographer]

Well this sure bruises my ego... I am glad you claimed. I would like to join a partnership with you.

We lynch Zab, you kill Nacho?

I am at a loss of who in DDD/Solid is scum. I have town reads on them both.

[Cartographer]

Oh wait only 2 mafia...

Hmm that's a little trickier. I still advocate a Zab lynch. Not sure on Nacho kill though...

[Cartographer]

Did you kill Rainbow?

[Cartographer]

If he's SK, why wouldn't we listen to him?

[Cartographer]

So your vote on me is PoE, Solid?

McStab, did you kill Rainbow?

[Cartographer]

I did ask him but I didn't see a response
VOTE: Nacho

I think this is our best chance

Solid, what Scum behavior has there been from me? Compromising on a lych? Getting less active over the course of the day?

[Cartographer]

Why would I as part of a two man scum group claim Vig then retract it, drawing suspicion around me?

I really don't care about being lynched since I am pretty see we can win this even if I am lynched today.

Kill Zabriel/Nacho lynch the other and then go into an agreement with mcStab or lynch him depending on how heartless you want to be.

[Cartographer]

Not down with lynching Carto today.

That being said, Carto if you're so convinced that Zabriel-Nacho scumteam exists then put your vote down and don't just lay over and die. Just because you're condemned by Zabriel and Solid (Zabriel being someone you think is scum too supposedly) doesn't mean you're destined to die. Now join me on my wagon and let's end this.

My vote is down. It's on Nacho. I will join you on Zab though if no one joins my Nacho wagon.

WIFOM Cart. The fact that you "don't care" suggests that you're less town than you insist. As scum your partner would have a night kill, and you KNOW that McStab wouldn't intentionally shoot him because that means town auto-win. Town is going to have to shit gold today to win.

Let's end this.

No that isn't Wine, Zab. It is called bad play. Gambits are not what win scum games. Good play is what wins scum games.

That fact that I don't care? No, that means I have little energy to devote to the game and accept the fact that we can win even if I am Lynched.

[Cartographer]

Then vote Nacho.

Inte's death points to Nacho as Mafia FYI. He had very little suspicion other than myself and Nacho.

[Cartographer]

I just want Mafia to die we can always tie with the SK.

[Cartographer]

I don't see why we lynch someone else and have the SK kill McStab. Lynches are more accurate then Vigshots.

I am making the comparison of the vig to an SK.

DDD and Nacho, I am sorry you think that about my most recent post.

Nacho still needs to die in my opinion. He has barely commented on the fact that I think he is scum. Scum sweeping me under the rug.

[Cartographer]

I almost want to play this game today as 3P LyLo. I think it's Nacho.

[Cartographer]

Wait for a replacement. Any opinions are New opinions are beneficial especially as we go into LyLo tomorrow.

Hopefully someone who likes to play town and analyze will jump at the chance to be confirmed town.

[Cartographer]

No one cares.

[Cartographer]

Yay now we can all stop being useless.

[Cartographer]

It was MCTTTTT I believe.

Right now it is McStab = scum, with everyone else claiming VT.

I think McStab's buddy is nacho.

The first kill was inte who suspected Nacho. Then when I was calling for nacho's blood along with Zab's blood Nacho kept calling me town. It looked like he was trying to appease me. I have to Look up who Nacho suspects going into last night.

Short story about my play is that I claimed Vigilante to draw the SK out. I did not succeed. I think I caught Nacho with it though. SK ended up being someone who I thought was playing weird, but didnt think was mafia.

And you are confirmed town. Yeah That pretty much sums it up.

[Cartographer]

that's why he was killed over you

[Cartographer]

Didn't DD think I was town for my fakeclaim?

Please don't base everything on WIFOM kill of last night

What?

[Cartographer]

Why would McStab lie as scum? To buff his SK claim

[Cartographer]

Look at who inte suspected and then look at what Solid flipped and then look at who is still alive.

Rainbow is a big fear factor that had a lot of suspicion around her. sK probably killed her thinking she was PR or at worst Mafia. Mafia would want her around because others wanted to lynch her.

Once Rainbow died it never made sense for her to be a mafia kill

[Cartographer]

Are you seriously going to read McStab's posts when he is fucking WIFOM trolling?

Be my guest and eat that poison fruit, but dont say I didn't warn you.

[Cartographer]

Nacho can stop lurking now. It's been a half hour I've seen you at the bottom of the page.

[Cartographer]

Always so convenient they post after I call them out

[Cartographer]

It took you half an hour to post a summary you already had?

[Cartographer]

I must have been very bad town to get you to think 75% I'm scum.

Please stop calling me Carty. It's patronizing and annoying.

I'll make my case on Nacho tonight. Then you can weigh the cases.

But first I am going to do an experiment.

VOTE: Nacho if he is town then good game Zab+McStab

[Cartographer]

You are seeing what you want to see. You need to look at everything impartially.

And I didn't want to lynch McStab because of his claim. Which is why DY and McStab weren't lynched just FYI

[Cartographer]

I'm not going to make excuses for my predecessors play other than that he is Russian from the sounds of his name.

It is just frustrating that because I was hospitalized when i got really sick and then couldn't get back into this game the town is going to lose.

I've made my suspicions apparent this entire game. I may not have been particularly active but I certainly let everyone know who I suspected.

If there is still a game going on when I come back tomorrow I will make this place hell on earth for Nacho.

[Cartographer]

Yup. You are scum. Didn't even consider the possibility of Zab being scum.

Not moving my vote.

I'll see you guys tomorrow.

[Cartographer]

And I don't know probably because Seilkops was a useless player.

[Cartographer]

Pretty sure I suspected Nacho way before Sei did. He was kinda buddying me.

If you think this is my scum play go read Precinct Madness. That is a micro game.

I'm not sloppy. This play is sloppy.

[Cartographer]

Sei being bad meant more of never being here and a bad ic more than anything. He wasn't very vocal.

And good night.

[Cartographer]

There anything else we need to go over?

Nope.

Nacho, Zabby, dearies, it's time to vote Stabby.

When he flips scum, you lynch Carty.

No excuses, no last-minute doubt, no hesitation, no second-guessing.
Don't think I'll be dead because I'm confirmed town; the fact that DDD was killed last night shows they don't care about the IC being sweet. When I die, it'll be thanks to me not backing down, because I'm 100% certain that it's Carty.

If I am wrong, you can blame the loss entirely on me, but there's no way Carty isn't sour. Everything fits into place with him as scum.

I am happy with blaming this loss on you. To put it succinctly, you're a fucking 'tard. In this game and messing up your name.

I'd also like to know what you go by as other than Aunt Jemina.

Since my fate is already sealed let me give you the preface of the post that you have now prevented me from continuing....

"Aunt Jemina if you go through with this I will wreck havoc all over this thread. I will incinerate you and your ideals, leaving cinders that will carry your putrid aroma. Every bottle of syrup that you make in the future will carry the stench of your burning flesh. No one will ever be able to enjoy you in the future. And I will make damn well sure that this happens.

I will break you until you can bear no more. I will create havoc on this thread and my mark will be seen all around Earth. Its tears will not be rain, for even in destruction, water brings forth prosperity, health, and rejuvination. Its cries will not be thunder or lightning for even those benefit Earth's constantly shifting state of equilibrium. No. Earth's tears will be the magma that pulsates from the core. The cracks I create in the surface will ooze and bubble with the molten rock reshaping what you have come to know. Like the ground after a volcanic flow, you will not be able to recognize yourself. Its cries will be the shattering noise of an earthquake, creating more destruction and even more tears. Nothing will be peaceful and nothing will be easy.

You have brought this upon yourself."

I decided that was too dramatic and theatrical for my tastes. Then again, you did just go and do this.

I don't care. It is quite ironic Nachomamma's title is "Devil in the Details" when you just entered into an agreement with the Devil himself.

The ONLY way town can even win this now is if Zab isn't an idiot and actually takes the chance to listen to me tomorrow.

I don't have time to make my case or really even post beyond this tonight. I would have made time if you had not been so rash with your actions and hastened your own execution.

At this time I invite you to step down from your high horse. I fear the fall may hurt too much when I flip.

[Cartographer]

Alright, I'll wait for you to come back and do that. We've got some time.

Zabriel please do not be rash. Give me some time to actually respond (and stab an Aunt Jemima bottle).

I meant what I said yesterday. I was seething with anger.

I am going to have a little time later today. If there is any semblance of reason or hope or compassion you will at the very least give me the opportunity to say my own words and make my own case.

[Cartographer]

I meant what I said yesterday. I was seething with anger.

Why does Jemina calling you scum create such an emotional response from you? I didn't really think that her suspicion on you really warranted #1317...

I'm done making big cases for a little while, but after I wake up...

I will drown you in a pool of your own blood...

I will drown Aunt Jemina in a pool of her own rancid syrup. Fun fact: Real Maple Syrup is much better than the artery rotting Aunt Jemina.

It pisses me off that Aunt Jemina comes in here thinking she owns the place and that her word is infallible. She gave no second thought at all to my alignment. She saw what she wanted to see. She fucking used tells from another player in another game and applied them this game. Specifically to ME. What sense does that make?

As far as I know she has never played with me. She didn't even give a look at Saulres's Micro game where I have a clear and present difference in my tactics as scum than what she presented here. I'll link you to the scum QT for that game. Read how I advise against killing people who suspect me precisely for the reason that Aunt Jemina says I would kill them... I play a much more calculated and cold game as scum. I had to replace out because I could not give that game the proper amount of attention it needed due to my sickness. I stayed in this game because I felt others could pick up for my slack being town and the fact that it was farther along at that point.

I wouldn't give town a bread crumb map through nightkills. That is stupid. That is sloppy. It is poor play.

You were IN that game Zabriel. Does my play here look anything at all like my play there? I mentioned my scumpartner Shuriken a total of 9 times in my iso. 5 out of those 9 where in one post and two others were answering Shuri by name.

Does that look like the type of "connections" that I built here with McStab? No. They are completly different.

I realize my interactions look bad but I am asking you to truly look at everything I've said and everything I've done.

You say that my fakeclaim is bad because McStab fakeclaimed, but let me first point out why my fakeclaim is completely different from McStabs as well as DoomYoshi's.

DY wanted to take a hit for the Innocent Child. That is town thought.
McStab claimed to 1) out other roles since he was "T2", and 2) to save his own life.

Where does my vig claim fall in that? I claimed not for my own life. Talk had already been established that the Vig was going to be lynched if they claimed. Why would I claim at that juncture? Because it had become clear that the Vig was not a Vig based on the nightkills. He would have listened to Rainbow spewing about the anti-town aspect of vigging nonconfirmed scum.

I knew that an SK existed and I claimed in order to look at everyone's reactions. That is how I got you and Nacho. You both had awkward interactions with that whole ordeal and while I was wrong about the SK and the other scum I was only wrong about the other scum because I had slated him as town due to his claim. Not by his play. That is an important distinction to make because I am almost positive Aunt Jemina was going after the "play" based aspect from her game that just finished which falls on its face here in addition to being absurd to apply to a completely different person.

I did not claim with the intention of riding the claim out. I had a specific purpose to analyze people's interactions after the claim. You can even see from DDD's iso when he pointed out "This doens't look legit" that I was not setting up for that claim and it was completely spur of the moment. That is sloppy. That is not clean. That is not a risk I would ever take as scum.

I even fucking said that I would be fine dying that day for lying about the claim as long as you and Nacho died. Does that look like smart play when my partner had already been locked into a T2 claim when no T1 existed?

No.

Vote: Cartographer

Hopefully you just made this very, very easy.

Up until this vote, Nacho has me listed as town and expresses interest in lynching Zab.

What made him switch his opinions of me? Well, the fact that I voted him after realizing he had to be the second scum member.

He lists me several times during the day that I am his strongest townread, yet all of that does not matter when he places the vote on me? That is not the play of a person who has a town role PM.

He has no self remorse for being wrong about me. Instead he is playing a reactionary battle letting the antiCartographer sentiments fly while he coasts under the radar. He is not stretching out his neck and he is not engaging me. The posts so far in the last two pages have all been undermining pot shots aimed to make my credibility falter in your eyes, Zab.

Ask yourself these questions. What happened to Nacho's "strong" townread on me? What happened to his interest in lynching you?

Control F "Cartographer" in Nacho's isos and you will see what I mean.

He is following the others in the town in order to blend in and Aunt Jemina put the fucking gun in his hand yesterday with her stupidly strongwilled play.

She didn't even fucking analyze Nacho. She got the idea stuck in her head that I was scum and then had bias when reading through my posts and the interactions with McStab.

I have given you proof that those actions are not scum Cartographer actions. They are town Cartographer actions that did not know better.

I can do a post analysis of all of Nacho's posts, but for now I am going to defend myself from Aunt Jemina's comments since that is what you seem to be basing your read off.


Carty, deary, my point is that you don't know who killed who. Stabby is claiming it was the scum killing inte, but how do we know that it wasn't the SK killing inte and the scum killed Rainbow?[/quote]

When you are looking at the game from my point of view and the frame job that you gobbled up like it was cake on your birthday, it is obvious who they killed. The scum team did not kill Rainbow because they wanted to ride out more of her paranoia inducing fear and get more people lynched, ultimately with a Rainbow lynch as well.

The bit from McStab is a pathetic attempt at a bus. He is keeping the two people that I fucking espoused as suspicious so he can by himself more time. Up that point he was fine. He realized his ass was gone now that the mass claim was commencing and he needed to induce as much confusing scenarios and WIFOM as he possibly could.

I have been calling for Nacho's death for a very long time. The fact that it didn't happen when it easily could WAY before this point means that he is scum or else his wagon would have gotten *somewhere*.

inte was more suspicious of you, carty.

Going through the other dead...Rainbow's last mention of a living player besides Stabby was also suspicious of you, carty.

Are you saying I killed both of them? You are an idiot.

Since you seem to be ignoring the obvious anti Nacho sentiments that inte was carrying. Notice how Nacho just brushes off inte whereas I try to engage with him for his unfounded kill Carto opinion that was based on a previous dealing with a predecessor.

Spoiler: inte quotes

yoshi when are you going to stop being opportunistic?

lynch order:

carto
nacho/yoshi i haven't decided yet

inte: Pretty solid scum read, here. I found his "reaction testing" to be incredibly forced and fake. I feel like the suspicion against Yoshi was garbage, and based on absolutely nothing but hot air. The sudden flip to Sivuere was scummy as hell, given that Bitmap had done the same thing and inte had completely ignored it. In fact, bitmap's post was worse. As noted, I hate the endless pleading to keep Defender around when inte agrees that we need to remove him eventually. I'd be really happy with an inte lynch.

it was forced and fake seeing as i'm not a dayvig.

can you seriously say to me that yoshi is being a productive town member and not giggle then, well, you need to re-read his iso. almost every single one of his votes have been opportunistic.

Siveure DtTrikyp's vote was an obvious opportunistic and anti-town hunting vote.
call me anti-town, spit at me, and request a PL? sure.
call me anti-town, actively pursue my lynch, then ambiguously switch reasons for lynching me when queried? scummy as fuark

bitmap is not doing the same thing. he did a faggy OMGUS, but i can see the town motivation in it because of the last game we played. not alignment indicative. i might be convinced to lynch him if someone puts together something thats not an issue with playstyle. so far i've not seen anything genuinely scummy.

i've played at least two games with d3f3n3r, once as a scum buddy, and one as a fellow townie. both times he was a hindrance to his team and i would rather actually lynch someone that can give us information for us to go off of.

you stink of opportunism. worse, you replaced into elmo's slot who i always read as scummy (similar to d3f3nd3r)

inte- What is your case against Carto? What don't you like about nachomomma?

my case of based off Sivure's actions. they were terrible enough for me to have a 99.96% scum read on him.
i hate getting stuck with my replacement's actions, but idk if i'm called a hypocrite.

wat? did you even read nacho's posts?

also inte is town.

I want to vote inte so badly right now.
Cartographer is being too town right here, so I suppose I can't vote him now.
Whatever, this can be a placeholder for later.

Vote: inte

this game is balls i have too many scum reads

lynch order:

carto
nacho/yoshi/Azusa Nakano/RBD (for something i just noticed, thanks azusa)

yeah way too many scum reads

No. It was forced and fake because you were trying way too hard to look like you were reaction fishing. It didn't feel like a legitimate attempt to do anything, it felt like you pretending to be productive. That should have been obvious, and I have to believe you're being obtuse.

and what about Demon Core? he did the exact same thing (hyperbole, in case you try to spin this against me), the post before, yet you make no mention of him. actually you read him as a town gut-read and you agree with his though processes. so is this a point for or against me?

(referring to d3f3nd3r) So, he's a hindrance to his team. You agree. So we lynch him and he flips town, we get rid of a key distraction and possible ML target in later days (and now the vig doesn't have to shoot him), and if he's scum... we lynch scum. I'm really failing to see why you have repeated pushed to do anything BUT lynch him. If all you were saying was "Well, defender is a lynch I could agree with, but I do feel like we could be going in another direction given the possibility of a vig, and that's definitely something we should explore"- you know, what I've established as my position, but you're not saying that. You're say "Let's ASSUME there's a vig, and not lynch him. 'cause it'll be a useless lynch."

so are you in favor or against the d3f3nd3r lynch? as far as i can tell you agree with me, but this seems to me a big point in your case.
are you criticizing the way i said it? if so, thats a playstyle issue.

(referring to yoshi) Yep, he's definitely solely been opportunistic. Which is why he just unvoted defender, the obvious opportunistic lynch (the VI who basically nobody has much of a problem with lynching), essentially killing possible momentum, right? It's not as though the wagon was dying down- Applejack had just joined it, making it the biggest wagon in the game. If anything, there was every reason to believe a Defender lynch could easily go through.

right, its not like he unvoted 7 posts after i called him out on another opportunistic vote. theres no way he would unvote after that.

(referring to bit towards rbd) Explain the town motivation, or meta if the game isn't ongoing.

last game RBD was the leading factor to town's demise. its only natural he would be suspicious as town
his playstyle is similar to my own

Oh, wait. I'm sorry. That's the ONLY post you've made about elmo. Until I show up and call you scum. Yeah, this reeks of OMGUS. Why did you never mention this "scumread" until just now?

? do you always mention people that you have a hard time reading? i've played with elmo prob 4 or so games before and every one of them have been near VI tier play. hence i always read him as scummy

Sivure wasn't particularly townie. That's fine. What do you think of Carto's actual play? Because that's what I'm basing my town read on.

most of it i didn't read

(about nacho) You realize people change their minds upon rereading and current postings, right? Like I did to some degree above with Yoshi?

i didn't even post in the time between his stance flip
yeah man sure people can change their reads, but i took "inte is town" as "inte is obvious town and shouldn't be ever lynched"
confident statements like that always have larger connotations.

it benefits him by attempting to get one of his proponents to his buddy's lynch, lynched

actually bump Azusa to an alternative to a lynch today

i will bring up a couple of points that do need addressing though

1) i will concede the point about Demon Core. i did not read your entire post
2) most of Yoshi's play strikes me as newb scum, so yes, i wouldn't put it behind him to do something like that
3) i thought the way i worded my point about elmo was clear.

i always read him as scum

should have implied that i've played with him enough
4) if nacho parks his vote on someone who is mislynched then it gives him town cred

yeah sure man i can't change reads either. nope not allowed

So, let's see here. (My apologies for falsely claiming you'd said nothing about Rainbowdash, btw. I always think of them as Rainbow, so I didn't think to check for rbd. If I missed any other comments, let me know.)

In every earlier post in which you mention Rainbow, you either state or imply that you think they are scummy, without giving any reasoning. Now suddenly you've swung around and said that Rainbow is town, without giving any reasoning. In fact, outright refusing to. You're right. This is completely innocuous. I'm just confused- if you found a towntell strong enough to override a feeling you seem to have had for a good chunk of the game... why are you refusing to share it? How is this pro-town in any way?

Admittedly, the only way I see it benefitting intescum is distancing from a Rainbowtown lynch, that doesn't make it not weird as hell.

And I've already explained why I consider this vastly different from the instance of Nacho, although here we also have a larger sample size, thus making the sudden change even weirder. Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

rbd is a player who needs to be scrutinized. any alignment shes a force to pay attention to.

Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

pretty much

In Carty's favor, this same post contained an FoS to Nacho, but Glados was showing clear suspicion at Carty's claim, and for thinking zabby was an SK.

In summary, 4/5 of the dead town had suspicions on Carty. DDD looks like he suspected Nacho, but it's not clear. I think this old lady has a little more work than anticipated, since the only way I'm going to be certain is with a read of the thread, but I'm a good 75% on Carty being sour.

I couldn't have killed all of them you realize this right? You are using "could have" "appears" and "might have" to justify your suspicion on me. You don't even know for certain whether Bitmap investigated Nacho.

Glados was a good player and very likely to not be lynched. Killing her before the game really started for her is the best bet that the scum could have hoped for. Glados expressing suspicion about my claim is hardly worth killing someone over whereas their reputation as player is.

I like how you are an "old" lady yet you memory of history. Clearly you are not as "old" as you think.

Cartographer's fakeclaim was bad and I really have no clue what compelled him to do it,

it seems weird even for scum

This line is of particular interest to my eyes. He pushes DY for fakeclaiming, but not Carty for his fakeclaim; carty's fakeclaim was confusing and "weird", but despite being "bad", is not considered sour. His interactions with Carty are the exact same type of distancing I just experienced in my last game, with regards to Sally and Huntress's slot, with the same progression: distancing, but ultimately keeping away from lynching each other, and ultimately making a play for the win. (In this case, trying a zabby lynch.) The trick's even older than I am.

Or this is typical scum going along with the sentiments of town. Not many people thought I was scum for my claim and McStab's comment is the typical scum opinion that just because something happened they have to comment on it.

Skimming Carty's iso, I confirmed the exact interaction I suspected would be there if Stabby were scum--defense in some places, distancing in others, but despite hard pushes on Stabby, never putting stabby in danger of death. The switch from stabby to defender shows one instance of this.

This old lady is a little bit tired from exhaustion already; the body does not work as much when you get to be my age. I need sleep before I tackle the whole thread, but carty's looking worse and worse.

This little old lady is a bottle of fucking maple syrup. she probably has dementia as well.

You are viewing my iso in the light that you want to see it. You can't come into the thread with opinions already preformed and without analyzing every aspect of the game. You focused me and *only* me despite my calls to look into Nacho.

Is that town play? Is that arrogance?

Carty, deary, that is precisely why I am reading the thread. As a nice old lady, it's my job to be impartial. It's simply that what I'm seeing is heavily pointing your way for being sour. For instance, your predecessor's replacing out looks like a replace due to being scum under pressure, considering less than a month later Sivvy was back to playing games. Add in your entrance post leaving a bitter taste in my mouth and your voting of Nacho combined with my womanly intuition and you're just the person who looks most sour. I'm still reading, so I'm not willing to make that call yet, but your posting is not making a strong case for you being sweet at all.

You are a horrible person to think that anyone would do that. You are a bad player to think that a lot can happen within 3 weeks to think that replacing out is a scumtell.

If Zab does give into your assuming and biased case then I am going to relish rubbing it in your face that you were wrong. Absolutely going to relish it.

Actually, I just realized something. Stabby's most likely a goon, but he could be the godfather. If he were, then it'd greatly increase Nacho's chances of being town.
VOTE: Stabby.

I haven't finished reading, but we should still be lynching the sour player first, for confirmation.

There you go again with no substantive proof that McStab investigated Nacho.

Working in Carty's favor is how strongly Nacho was defending Stabby, but working against Carty is the very things which on the surface would look as if they work in his favor: the distancing votes they placed on one another that put neither in any serious danger. Carty's accidental hammer of defender doesn't do him any favors, either.

You even agree that nacho is connected with McStab and yet my interactions are somehow worse. Look at the meta I provided earlier. This is not my scum play.

Then there's this.

We need to put LaL into effect. Doom not taking the shot is suspicious, and Carto's supposed trap was weird as hell and didn't strike me as effective. Does anyone in here feel comfortable with either of them lasting till LyLo?

Stabby supported LaL on Doomy, but the later play quite clearly shows he didn't support it on Carty.

He talked the talk, but when push came to shove, he didn't walk the walk.

Following the town.... if you read this in context it would be apparent. Look at what the other town players said and then look at what McStab said. He is basically parroting them, but just applying his own little twists to make the comments seem original.

I'm a little bit senile, since I forgot to include this.

Becuase of that fact I'm tempted to say he's actually mafia using this tactic to stay in the game and

try and divert the lynch from his partner

because that at least makes more sense.

This

is why DDD ended up dead. Stabby outlined Zabby and Nacho as scum, diverting attention away from Carty.

I am looking at DDD's iso because I honestly thought that maybe by some stars aligned mystical voodoo she was right that DDD heavily suspected me.... but I can't find it.

I'm not even sure Aunt Jemina and I are even reading the same game. DDD's iso clearly has me as town of sorts. It may not be strong town, but he has me as towns and even says that my fake claim is town.

Applying the same tells that Aunt Jemina is to McStab, DDD says he isn't interested in LaL, he just wants to lynch DY (not me). Does this fit your stupid little puzzle? Because it doesn't. That is essentially the same thing that McStab said about me. Your puzzle is clearly missing a few, important pieces for you to get the big picture.

Aunt Jemina, what syrup residue are you smoking?

Anyways, I did go over things again and my strongest instinct isn't any of the current options.

VOTE: Solidstate

Very happy to spread paranoia about the ponies without actually taking them on early in the game; has ended up in bad position on a pair of town lynches; and lately has seemed to care far more about the numbers than who is actually scum.

I'm not voting for zabriel because I refuse to vote in the direction McStab wants me to vote; I still think Cartogropher's bizarre play makes more sense from town that scum. Nacho is probably my second choice but I want to see how things will roll with solidstate's name out there.

Does that look like DDD thought Nacho was "town"? He lists him as his second lynch candidate.

And I know it's not exactly standard, but I'm going to employ some good points from flipped anti-town since I'm a bit of an eccentric lady.

Actually...

VOTE: Carto

Reasoning:
1) Going way back, the RBD wagon. Nacho's comment about that wagon has since been proven true (mcstab is scum), a second one on it (variety of scum doesn't matter here) is not implausible.
2) Today, McStab said he will lynch me, Zab, or Nacho. The fact that he didn't include Carto is noteworthy whether he's mafia or SK (SK just wants a mislynch, mafia obviously will protect its partner). Also see the next:
3) McStab's fakeclaim came before Carto had massclaimed (they came before DDD had as well, but he'd sort of quasi-claimed accusing McStab). If he was faking SK to keep his partner from getting caught, speaking before the other scum claimed is helpful.
4) All of my town read on him was really residual day 1. Carto's play since then has definitely not improved. The vigilante gambit is just as logical (or even more logical) as an attempt to draw a town counterclaim to get a PR target for the mafia.

I've been doing rereads for associative tells but there's a lot of game out there. I think I'm happy with this for now.

First, why are you even listening to Solid? He wants to lynch anyone that isn't him?

1). That isn't even a point. It is a "meh, this could happen" just like all of your assumed facts about McStab's investigation and applying the actions of scum from another game to this game as if all scum are going to behave exactly the same especially when I have clear evidence of my own meta describing the exact opposite of what you are trying to sell, Aunt Jemina.
2). He tied himself to me. The moment he claimed T2 he knew come mass claim time he was going down. Why the fuck would he ever do that as a two man scumteam with his only person? No, he did it to get another mislynch. You are right he did it to protect his partner. He did it to get another mislynch to PROTECT his partner.
3). As I said in 2, tieing himself to another townie is exactly the protection that his partner needed. Unless you are literally in imminent win status, tying yourself to your ONLY partner via a fakeclaim is one of the most ballsy moves you could ever do and not worth it.
4). In what world would claiming PR at that time when 2 nightkills had happened be outting a PR? It was obvious that the Vigilante was not a Vigilante.

I think that is everything, Zab.

If you have any questions about anything I've said please do ask.

I gave you links to my scumgame. Please read it. You were in it so you might remember. I am not playing the way I played there in anyway shape or form.

inte was more suspicious of you, carty.

Going through the other dead...Rainbow's last mention of a living player besides Stabby was also suspicious of you, carty.

Are you saying I killed both of them? You are an idiot.

Since you seem to be ignoring the obvious anti Nacho sentiments that inte was carrying. Notice how Nacho just brushes off inte whereas I try to engage with him for his unfounded kill Carto opinion that was based on a previous dealing with a predecessor.

Spoiler: inte quotes

yoshi when are you going to stop being opportunistic?

lynch order:

carto
nacho/yoshi i haven't decided yet

inte: Pretty solid scum read, here. I found his "reaction testing" to be incredibly forced and fake. I feel like the suspicion against Yoshi was garbage, and based on absolutely nothing but hot air. The sudden flip to Sivuere was scummy as hell, given that Bitmap had done the same thing and inte had completely ignored it. In fact, bitmap's post was worse. As noted, I hate the endless pleading to keep Defender around when inte agrees that we need to remove him eventually. I'd be really happy with an inte lynch.

it was forced and fake seeing as i'm not a dayvig.

can you seriously say to me that yoshi is being a productive town member and not giggle then, well, you need to re-read his iso. almost every single one of his votes have been opportunistic.

Siveure DtTrikyp's vote was an obvious opportunistic and anti-town hunting vote.
call me anti-town, spit at me, and request a PL? sure.
call me anti-town, actively pursue my lynch, then ambiguously switch reasons for lynching me when queried? scummy as fuark

bitmap is not doing the same thing. he did a faggy OMGUS, but i can see the town motivation in it because of the last game we played. not alignment indicative. i might be convinced to lynch him if someone puts together something thats not an issue with playstyle. so far i've not seen anything genuinely scummy.

i've played at least two games with d3f3n3r, once as a scum buddy, and one as a fellow townie. both times he was a hindrance to his team and i would rather actually lynch someone that can give us information for us to go off of.

you stink of opportunism. worse, you replaced into elmo's slot who i always read as scummy (similar to d3f3nd3r)

inte- What is your case against Carto? What don't you like about nachomomma?

my case of based off Sivure's actions. they were terrible enough for me to have a 99.96% scum read on him.
i hate getting stuck with my replacement's actions, but idk if i'm called a hypocrite.

wat? did you even read nacho's posts?

also inte is town.

I want to vote inte so badly right now.
Cartographer is being too town right here, so I suppose I can't vote him now.
Whatever, this can be a placeholder for later.

Vote: inte

this game is balls i have too many scum reads

lynch order:

carto
nacho/yoshi/Azusa Nakano/RBD (for something i just noticed, thanks azusa)

yeah way too many scum reads

No. It was forced and fake because you were trying way too hard to look like you were reaction fishing. It didn't feel like a legitimate attempt to do anything, it felt like you pretending to be productive. That should have been obvious, and I have to believe you're being obtuse.

and what about Demon Core? he did the exact same thing (hyperbole, in case you try to spin this against me), the post before, yet you make no mention of him. actually you read him as a town gut-read and you agree with his though processes. so is this a point for or against me?

(referring to d3f3nd3r) So, he's a hindrance to his team. You agree. So we lynch him and he flips town, we get rid of a key distraction and possible ML target in later days (and now the vig doesn't have to shoot him), and if he's scum... we lynch scum. I'm really failing to see why you have repeated pushed to do anything BUT lynch him. If all you were saying was "Well, defender is a lynch I could agree with, but I do feel like we could be going in another direction given the possibility of a vig, and that's definitely something we should explore"- you know, what I've established as my position, but you're not saying that. You're say "Let's ASSUME there's a vig, and not lynch him. 'cause it'll be a useless lynch."

so are you in favor or against the d3f3nd3r lynch? as far as i can tell you agree with me, but this seems to me a big point in your case.
are you criticizing the way i said it? if so, thats a playstyle issue.

(referring to yoshi) Yep, he's definitely solely been opportunistic. Which is why he just unvoted defender, the obvious opportunistic lynch (the VI who basically nobody has much of a problem with lynching), essentially killing possible momentum, right? It's not as though the wagon was dying down- Applejack had just joined it, making it the biggest wagon in the game. If anything, there was every reason to believe a Defender lynch could easily go through.

right, its not like he unvoted 7 posts after i called him out on another opportunistic vote. theres no way he would unvote after that.

(referring to bit towards rbd) Explain the town motivation, or meta if the game isn't ongoing.

last game RBD was the leading factor to town's demise. its only natural he would be suspicious as town
his playstyle is similar to my own

Oh, wait. I'm sorry. That's the ONLY post you've made about elmo. Until I show up and call you scum. Yeah, this reeks of OMGUS. Why did you never mention this "scumread" until just now?

? do you always mention people that you have a hard time reading? i've played with elmo prob 4 or so games before and every one of them have been near VI tier play. hence i always read him as scummy

Sivure wasn't particularly townie. That's fine. What do you think of Carto's actual play? Because that's what I'm basing my town read on.

most of it i didn't read

(about nacho) You realize people change their minds upon rereading and current postings, right? Like I did to some degree above with Yoshi?

i didn't even post in the time between his stance flip
yeah man sure people can change their reads, but i took "inte is town" as "inte is obvious town and shouldn't be ever lynched"
confident statements like that always have larger connotations.

it benefits him by attempting to get one of his proponents to his buddy's lynch, lynched

actually bump Azusa to an alternative to a lynch today

i will bring up a couple of points that do need addressing though

1) i will concede the point about Demon Core. i did not read your entire post
2) most of Yoshi's play strikes me as newb scum, so yes, i wouldn't put it behind him to do something like that
3) i thought the way i worded my point about elmo was clear.

i always read him as scum

should have implied that i've played with him enough
4) if nacho parks his vote on someone who is mislynched then it gives him town cred

yeah sure man i can't change reads either. nope not allowed

So, let's see here. (My apologies for falsely claiming you'd said nothing about Rainbowdash, btw. I always think of them as Rainbow, so I didn't think to check for rbd. If I missed any other comments, let me know.)

In every earlier post in which you mention Rainbow, you either state or imply that you think they are scummy, without giving any reasoning. Now suddenly you've swung around and said that Rainbow is town, without giving any reasoning. In fact, outright refusing to. You're right. This is completely innocuous. I'm just confused- if you found a towntell strong enough to override a feeling you seem to have had for a good chunk of the game... why are you refusing to share it? How is this pro-town in any way?

Admittedly, the only way I see it benefitting intescum is distancing from a Rainbowtown lynch, that doesn't make it not weird as hell.

And I've already explained why I consider this vastly different from the instance of Nacho, although here we also have a larger sample size, thus making the sudden change even weirder. Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

rbd is a player who needs to be scrutinized. any alignment shes a force to pay attention to.

Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

pretty much

why the HELL would you fakeclaim vigilante as town?
why?

Fake rage typical in today's scum meta.

Cool, Cartographer is crazy as fuck but probably town.
Please vote zabriel with me now.

There was an overall sentiment of me being the one to get lynched. It is pretty selfish but I almost want to be lynched. I don't have the time I need for this game.

If this is the case, replace out. No shame in that.

but for the record,

I know Nacho waited a long time while he was active on the site to post in this specific thread.

I was spamming specifically in this game because it was LyLo and I was quite close to death.

Has me as town...

We are massclaiming. There is no reason for any discussion to happen before we are finished.

Wants to stifle discussion so that things will go his way that day.

I really don't think DY would do this. I had already claimed and lied. Why needlessly out himself? He could ride
the LaL sentiment for a day or more.

Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?

As scum, he just saw that you claimed and lied and managed to get away with it. If he were scum, he could want to hide in the VT claims instead of the PR claims, and after your claim, could have decided to risk it instead of risk both partners getting caught. But I don't necessarily believe that, and I need to do a little rereading before I decide what to do next.

Right now, my initial thought is still massclaiming. If DY is town and just switched his doctor claim to a townie claim, we could be catching scum slipping right now as long as NO ONE ELSE LIES. But seriously, read RBD's posts about people lying about claims in this setup because it literally fucks everything up.

Has me as town and he himself follows that lynch DY but save Cartographer for later sentiment that literally EVERYONE FUCKING SAID AUNT JEMINA.

Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.

At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.

VOTE: Nacho

still would love to lynch this guy too

Still wants to lynch Zab has me as a townread.

[Cartographer]

That's weird. the formatting of that post got super fucked up.

The last spoiler was supposed to be about Nacho. Some are in there i'll post the rest right now

I'll just leave these here.... the contradictions in Nacho's iso...

Spoiler: Nacho is scum

I admit I don't want to be around at LyLo.


If I was stuck with it, town would lose. Keep me alive now, feel free to Vig or kill me closer to LyLo.

Who the hell called Defender scum? He's expressing that he doesn't want to be around at LyLo so he doesn't fuck up the game-ending decision, which implies that he will be making the decision, which implies that he will be town enough to be confirmed town by that point. Sorry, but he is not such a gifted scumplayer where he manages to throw that bit of subtlety in a post which is asking to be lynched before LyLo. nope nope nope.

Elmo gave me a pretty strong townread for the whole push and pull with trying to get into the game, and Azusa is giving me a townread for a soft defending me a little bit initially, and then slowly letting paranoia creep into his posting.

so add those two to the townread pile of 'stab, cartographer, inte again, bitmap, and kind of doom, and it means I actually have to put effort into reading the ponies.

i'm calling scum in {mcstab, bitmap, cartographer}, actually.
rbd is town and someone put suspicion on her, and I bet you scum couldn't resist fueling the paranoia somewhat.

the fighting is stupid, though.
also no lynching applejack.
no lynching mcstab, and no making him claim. might change later, we'll see.

tomorrow, tomorrow.

vote: applejack

I mean, it's definitely possible. We ran up the last two wagons to L-1 in like, less than 48 hours?
come on, come on.

Unvote, Vote: D3f3nd3r

For the sake of future generations

Applejack-RBD scumteam if two person setup,
Applejack-RBD-Azusa scumteam if three person scumteam setup
Applejack-RBD scumteam with Nacho SK if 2:1 setup

And I will brag about calling it when proven correct after the game is over

nacho sk, defending two scum and lynching town
because nacho sk really gives a fuck about who gets lynched
incidentally, the scumteam obviously is blatantly defending each other to the hilt because why the fuck not? that makes sense

GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME

I expect your vote when defender flips scum
and mostly silence except when i give you permission to speak

Ok, we have time. Mcstab needs to claim.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mcstab

NO BAD BAD
get to defender

Rainbow, if you seriously think lynching lurkers when you have 30 pages of content and you supposedly have a handful of strong scum and townreads is a good thing, then you're either scum looking for an easy target or you don't know how to scumhunt. I know for a fact it can't be the second, because you're a good scumhunter.

scum is scum
the fuck does it matter how much he posts?

its the same shit i've been saying

d3f3n3r lynch tells us nothing about the alignment of other players. he has zero associative tells

i would rather lynch mcstab over d3f3nd3r at this moment

inte, you don't understand how associative tells work if you think that's how things work
they go both ways
and I'm getting tons of good stuff

Godfather flip was important because it pretty much confirms that we're in a two scum setup, which would mean that if the claimed letters showed differently, then we would know there were liars in the PR pool, and we would be able to lynch them accordingly without waiting until LyLo.

I like this last bit because Nacho has been saying things that others were not completely fine with such as RBD town and inte obvtown.

Him labelling inte as obvtown and noting the soft claims makes it more likely that he felt inte was a PR of sorts and makes even more sense for him to kill him.

why the HELL would you fakeclaim vigilante as town?
why?

Fake rage typical in today's scum meta.

Cool, Cartographer is crazy as fuck but probably town.
Please vote zabriel with me now.

There was an overall sentiment of me being the one to get lynched. It is pretty selfish but I almost want to be lynched. I don't have the time I need for this game.

If this is the case, replace out. No shame in that.

but for the record,

I know Nacho waited a long time while he was active on the site to post in this specific thread.

I was spamming specifically in this game because it was LyLo and I was quite close to death.

Has me as town...

We are massclaiming. There is no reason for any discussion to happen before we are finished.

Wants to stifle discussion so that things will go his way that day.

I really don't think DY would do this. I had already claimed and lied. Why needlessly out himself? He could ride
the LaL sentiment for a day or more.

Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?

As scum, he just saw that you claimed and lied and managed to get away with it. If he were scum, he could want to hide in the VT claims instead of the PR claims, and after your claim, could have decided to risk it instead of risk both partners getting caught. But I don't necessarily believe that, and I need to do a little rereading before I decide what to do next.

Right now, my initial thought is still massclaiming. If DY is town and just switched his doctor claim to a townie claim, we could be catching scum slipping right now as long as NO ONE ELSE LIES. But seriously, read RBD's posts about people lying about claims in this setup because it literally fucks everything up.

Has me as town and he himself follows that lynch DY but save Cartographer for later sentiment that literally EVERYONE FUCKING SAID AUNT JEMINA.

Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.

At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.

VOTE: Nacho

still would love to lynch this guy too

Still wants to lynch Zab has me as a townread.

[Cartographer]

I meant to add it in after the nacho quotes but I was running out the door to go to a dinner.

VOTE: Nacho

Is that the only thing you have to comment on? :/

[Cartographer]

A lot of thought was put into my interaction with Shurkiem last game. I made sure my interaction with him appeared natural. The fact that you are trying to use adaptation when you hardly know me as a reason for me being scum is hilarious. You are grasping at straws.

My fake rage? I'm normally a collected person but Aunt Jemina's arrogance pushed me over the edge. I mean what I said about her. While I may not completely want the Earth's surface to kill her there was definitely anger in there.

When I play like shit and it is a clear difference from my scum play, yes I will show everyone that.

I have already pointed out in the inte quote section and your section that you thought he was a) obvtown, b) soft claiming, and c) suspicious of you. You killed him out of fear.

I had a talk with Saul prior to him replacing me, in that I said I would try to make the effort but we then both agreed it would not wise in case further complications appeared. That is why I replaced out of another game that had just started that you can probably find.

I stayed in this one because it was farther along and because I was town. There is no way I would have hurt my buddy by staying in and barely playing for days like I unfortunately did here.

Nacho, you pushing the Zab wagon is basically "I don't like him!" "let's lynch him!" etc. that isn't a push. That is the type of activity common for scum.

Nice desperate attempts to make anything I say appear worse.

[Cartographer]

ain't even mad

cartographer you're pretty shitty at this game

Im leaving this site anyway. I cant deal with the pace and magnitude of mafia on this site. I prefer chat better I dont get as angry

Bye