Open 479: White Flag (Game Over)

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm going to start reading this weekend, I assure you will catch scum.

Put your faith in me, I'll win this game for town or I'll fuck up miserably and you will all blame me lol

Thor knows what I'm capable of, I won a game with him and my awesomeness.

[Jake from State Farm]

I just lol'd at thor's comment cause if it wasn't for me re-reading that game town would have certainly lost. Him denying that adds a slight scummy ness to him. Luckily I'm not gonna let that sway me, neither is my grudge for a certain player who I'd normally turbo lynch were it not lylo.

[Jake from State Farm]

So...who were the other scum you caught?

let's see, you were not on the klick lynch when we were in mylo (interesting enough you never mention Klick the entire game, how you not actually type the name of a player not even once is quite amazing)

and I chose right the next day after you were dead.

I was dead set on lynching you and you could never make up your mind.

but enough about me winning the game and not getting the credit I deserved

let's worry about this game now ok? great.

[Jake from State Farm]

not to mention isn't that the game where I correctly named 3 scum on day 1? ok ok back on this game

[Jake from State Farm]

so going through a few ISOs, especially the dead (NK'd) people and I am pretty sure scum is DCL/Thor

going to do a full re-read when I have time but a DCL wagon would be where I would vote if I had to right now. Gotta get to work, hopefully can get some more reading tonight.

I also want to say that Statistically speaking, there is a greater than 70% chance one of thor and myself is scum based on the first wagon, and I know I'm not scum plus the intereactions between ac/dcl early on (defending DCL's hammer which was horrible btw)

both of them are probably scum. DCL is absolutely scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

What do you think of my town case on him?

@ thor - reading your ISO up until this post and I don't see any post where you explain why DCL is town, in fact you hardly mention him before this post.

So please enlighten me as to why you think DCL is town.

interesting note, the slot thor replaced also had a town read on DCL and I am always suspect when a person coming in has a near identical read, more often than not I have seen that coming from scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

sorry, forgot to say post 492 is where Thor calls llama's case on DCL bad and asks Llama his opinion on the town case.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ huntress, I guess you bring up a valid point. Tbh I didn't even read my own slots posts, didnt want to be biased by them.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake - and you should have called it 'skimming your iso with a search function' not 'reading'
They're different things.

But I didn't skim it...

You and I have different definitions of case obviously

[Jake from State Farm]

So now I'm less sure of the DC/Thor team cause of the hard defending. I went through 20 games of Thor and never saw anything close to this type of defending. While its possible he is scum, I find it highly unlikely.

I'm slightly suspicious of petroleum also based on isos of others but haven't read his iso either. I'm near 100% dC is scum though.

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor, just for kicks. Besides the defending of you, why is DCL town? Cause surely you would consider scum buddying you. Give me some examples of pro-town behavior from him. (I'd like at least 1 example from before you replaced in).

Thanks.

[Jake from State Farm]

Since nobody seems to be bringing it up: why do players think the scum are killing

at all

?

Given that this is a guaranteed mountainous game, I would think the scum would just no-kill at some point, and most probably on Night One because it puts Town in the worst position if the Town continues lynching (and experience generally shows that Towns do precisely that). The fact that there have been consistent kills suggests either (i) the scum have not actually really

considered

the option of no-killing, or (ii) the scum actually have reasons for making the kills they are making, which points away from my earlier theory that the scum are simply trying to be uninformative with their nightkills.

That said

, the rules of this game (and particularly the fact that no majority at deadline results in a No Lynch) make the "obvious" strategy perhaps not ideal; this is because if the scum manage to get a No-Lynch and the scum have also not skipped a night kill, there is a lynch lost completely. This makes it

possible

that the strategy was considered and dismissed in light of the deadline lynch rule.

Overall, just something that has been bugging me. Would be interested in hearing others' viewpoints.

Wouldn't scum no killing give town the advantage?

But it didnt happen so why bring it up?

[Jake from State Farm]

Has anyone seen scum buddy scum? Seems that nobody would expect it.

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor is town. AC rage quit; scum don't rage quit after a mislynch.

upon further review, AC hammered 1 day too early, thus ending discussion and a potential wagon on your slot. The mod said deadline was on the 7th and he hammered on the 6th, right after petroleum put him at L-1 for what has to be some of the worst reasonings I have ever seen.

What i find really odd is the amount of defending that the 3 of you (DCL/Petroleum/Thor) have done this game. Given the mountainous setup, defending each other is probably smart play because in the off chance one of you do get lynched, nobody would ever expect that the other 2 are scum.

I'm probably going to vote DCL by the end of today(not day phase, the actual day) but I still want to look over some things.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't even get why you are bringing it up? Why speculate on something that never actually happened? Since it never happened i'm not going to waste my time on it. Less speculation, and more scum hunting. Thanks

2. I was referring to day 2 because day 2 is when you put mike at L-1 and AC hammered. imo AC replaced out wasn't a town tell like DCL tried to say it was. The bad reasonings were the ones from you.

I am finding that you using mafia "buzzwords" at inappropriate times to describe others' play.

1. what buzzwords was he using at inappropriate times? please show examples cause I couln't find them when i skimmed his iso
2. since when is using buzz words a scumtell? I have seen both alignments use them

In Post #207 you tried to paint players who had posted about 2-3 times in 2-3 days as "lurkers."

this is null, certainly not lynch worthy and probably one of the more accurate statements made in the game. A player who doesn't post often IS lurking.

You toss out the phrase "tunnel-vision" to describe players who were clearly not tunneling (myself, havingfitz, and Mert).
you switched from calling Mert a "vote-hopper" to having "tunnel vision"; either way you are not paying very close attention to Mert's play, and in both cases, you made whether he was voting the same person or lots of people sound intrinsically bad by using a loaded term.

you sort of were focused on Rach a little so I could see where one may think tunnelvision, I will concede that fitz wasn't tunneling & Mert doesn't look like he was either. But being wrong - being scum

It's also mildly annoying that you claim all of the reasons players might vote you are terrible, but when you get to my reasons in Post #328 you admit that you've made "some pretty bad arguments today."

if he is scum, why would this annoy you? If anything, him admitting his arguments were bad is more of a town tell.

Really, I think you have largely been attacking me just for the sake of attacking me.

This just reads OMGUS

Finally, I will admit that Hiraki's and LlamaFluff's bad defenses of you are influencing this vote, since this could result in a pretty much won game if either is your partner.

That is a horrible reason to vote someone.

also later in the game you claim you did "research" into some games where you hydra'd with fluff and found that he defended people for reasons you didn't agree with, but if those games were already completed I don't see how you would have forgotten? I can't recall if I have ever played with llama but I know I have played with his alt, and him defending people is par for the course. Even if people don't agree with them. I can't believe you would use llama's defending as a reason if you have played with him before.

In addition you would have to believe that scum will defend their buddy in that situation, which imo would be stupid considering he was getting run up. In that situation scum would absolutely bus.

[Jake from State Farm]

On that note, I am still confident that DCLXVI is Town.

You had DCL as a town read, and later (when DCL was at L-2 actually) you say this.

No, though I am giving myself room to adjust my reads; I do not want to get stuck on a read solely because I am too lazy / stubborn to consider things from another angle. Right now I trying to act as though everybody has equal potential to be scum.

It seems like you were setting yourself up to waffle on your read of him, so I really want you to explain your process of how you ultimately decided DCL was town citing examples of town behavior from him

[Jake from State Farm]

This game needs moar poasts

[Jake from State Farm]

All of this can be found in the text you quoted in the same post where you ask me what "buzzwords" mikeburnfire used.

psh those aren;t buzzwords imo, those are legit terms that people actually do.

[Jake from State Farm]

It being Jake, though, he'll probably manage to gak that one up and call it scummy, but we can always hope.

you know being a dick doesn't help, if you are town. I will absolutely vote you not giving a rats ass if you are town or not. So take the attitude down a notch ok?

thanks

[Jake from State Farm]

oh and thor didn't answer my direct question

but petroleum definitely waffled when DCL was getting run up

vote: petroleum

[Jake from State Farm]

I found a reliable scumtell

[Jake from State Farm]

Still scummy cause I can't find much in your iso, but if pj is scum it's possible you are town.

[Jake from State Farm]

I still need to iso having fitz, llama, and huntress

So maybe I'll wait to vote

unvote

[Jake from State Farm]

Here's where I'm at right now.

1. I think it's really odd that (DCL, Thor, PJ) all seem to be on the same side. Thor and PJ haven't done a good job explaining their town read on DCL.

2. Having fitz sadly reads town cause I've seen him as scum first hand, and this doesn't seem like it.

3. I'm always suspicious of llama's alt, can't remember if I have played with llama though. Him defending mike is par for the course and the fact that pj "forgot" that and used it as a reason to lynch Mike is very odd.


I'm really trying to not let thor's brash personality force me to throw everything out the window I will say he's not trying to find scum this day phase which is a contrast to other games I've played with him.

Also the huge thing I'm trying to figure out is if so many dead people thought DCL is scum, and if he's actually town, why is nobody trying to lynch him?

So much to go through. Gotta take my time.

[Jake from State Farm]

I've seen him as scum first hand, and this doesn't seem like it.

you are a player I try to avoid but put that aside to help the mod out with this game. I'm trying not to let grudges influence me

[Jake from State Farm]

yes I am a known alt and as far as I know only 2 people know who my main is (not counting anyone affiliated with the website who has access to my alt list)

I am hoping those 2 people don't tell anyone else as I would prefer that those remain hidden. This is now essentially my main as I have "retired" any other account I have played under.

[Jake from State Farm]

Hi. Show me where I "waffled," please.

I already did, I specifically quoted where you did actually.

ok so I opened up excel and wrote down all of the votes/suspicions/town reads for the dead people and turns out I was wrong and actually most of the dead people thought DCl was town.

Here is what I have

Remembering Sunday

Voted

- RachMarie

Scummy

- RachMarie & Thor

Town

- Hiraki & DCL

Equinox

-

Voted

- Huntress, DCL, Rach, & Sunday

Scummy

- Rach & Thor

Town

- DCL

Mikeburnfire

Voted

- PJ, Thor, Mert, Thor, & DCL

Scummy

- DCL, Rach, Thor, & pj

Town

- Llama, CD, & Huntress

Hiraki

-

Voted

- Thor, Mert, Thor

Scummy

- Thor

Town

- CD, Jake, pj, & mikeburn

RachMarie

Voted

- Mike, Fitz, CDB, & Fitz

Scummy

- Fitz, Thor, & Llama

Town

- DCL, Huntress, & PJ

CD

Voted

Rach, DCL, Huntress, Sunday, Huntress, DCL, Huntress

Scummy

- llama & huntress

Town

- Fitz, DCL, PJ, Thor(slight town read)

The only thing this list tells me is I was wrong when I said more people thought DCL was scummy, turns out more people think he is town. Hiraki kill was weird and unless I missed it he only really thought Thor was scummy. Equinox thought thor was scummy, Sunday thought Thor was scummy, Rach said if Thor was alive today he should be lynched (I am inclined to agree, especially since he isn't trying to find scum today like he has in the past as town)

Despite PJ being a town read by most, the couple of things I pointed out don't really make sense from a town perspective. I have to dig deeper to see why these people have him as a town read.

will do more later, I really need to get to work.

p.edit - if you say so

[Jake from State Farm]

Furthermore, I asked you several questions in my post. Answer them. And then explain how it is you apparently have not read any of the following players:

I could not manage to read that post on my phone, nor do I like reading big walls of text. If you asked me questions please break them out into a smaller post.

As for why I have not read the remaining ISOs yet, it's cause I'm busy and only do ISOs on a computer

[Jake from State Farm]

Once I finish my isos, I'm still going to vote you pj. You committed the biggest scumslip by waffling on your DCL read when he was being run up. That's not town motivated. Quite frankly I don't even believe you did re-evaluate all your reads like you said, cause your posts would have reflected that. They don't.

[Jake from State Farm]

What does that mean?

[Jake from State Farm]

Well that's really not true though cause I had no idea who my slot thought was scum. I haven't even read his iso yet. I came to my scum read on you based on the dead people, but actually when I read deeper and made my chart, turns out I was wrong and they all had you as a town read.

Not to mention if that was true I would have voted you instead of the person who waffled on their town read of you.

Pj's accusation is false also cause there is already 1 person voting you, if I was seriously trying to get you lynched I could have easily voted you. But I didn't.

[Jake from State Farm]

I actually saw a town crossvote in a 5p lylo and scum waited 3 days to come in and hammer. and they were around posting in the thread...quickhammers in 7p lylo are really unlikely especially since there are 3 players calling me town and if one of them voted me it would be obvious they are scum. So basically that argument is bullshit.

link?

[Jake from State Farm]

so after reading Fitz & llama

Fitz still reads town to me/ His posts look genuine and his I can understand some of his votes/attacks on people.

llama reads scum - the vote on CDB was bad, the attack on DCL is something I would absolutely expect from him as scum.

going to start huntress later

[Jake from State Farm]

@jake

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=21425

what was this for?

[Jake from State Farm]

lol I forgot I asked for a link. smh

[Jake from State Farm]

It being Jake, though, he'll probably manage to gak that one up and call it scummy, but we can always hope.

you know being a dick doesn't help, if you are town. I will absolutely vote you not giving a rats ass if you are town or not. So take the attitude down a notch ok?

thanks

You started it.

Thanks.

oh and thor didn't answer my direct question

Which?

Also, you also didn't address mine. I was serious about it - you are misrepping our past meta and using it as a tell on me - why?

I will say he's not trying to find scum this day phase which is a contrast to other games I've played with him.

This when I've actually done the *most* work of anyone this dayphase.
Thanks for noticing.
You probably had to read my iso for that one too, huh?

@Llama - a fitz/Thor scumteam...I...you...whut?

1. what are you 2? I didn't start anything
2. my question was about explain to me dcl town, examples of pro town play
3. I didn't mis-rep anything, if it wasn't for me town lost that game. scum even set it up so I could hammer wrong, but I took the time to figure things out. why are YOU mis-repping? oh yeah, cause you are a conceited sob
4. I haven't seen you do anything worthwhile this day phase :shrug:

[Jake from State Farm]

What you did was highlight a point in the game where I forced myself to reread the game and reassess my reads.

but none of your posts indicate you ACTUALLY reassesed your reads...

as for why you voted veggie (another townie btw) over the other 2, it's probably the fact that you didn't want to be another L-1 vote, that would do bad things for you if someone did VCA

[Jake from State Farm]

it's not at all improbable to set yourself to waffle on your read and try to vote somebody else to shift attention. Saying you STILL think he is town doesn't prove you did anything at all to evaluate your reads.

Interesting points about post 540.

1. you don't mention Huntress like you claim you did (in fact the only time Huntress appears in your iso during that time is post 514 when you explain you are re-evaluating your reads and the next time the name appears is all the way in post 753) -

Lie much?

- oh wait, you will just say you were "mistaken" right?

2. You say in post 540 that veggie wasn't voting anyone which is also a lie as shown in the vote count in post 542 where vegie is absolutely voting someone, and I am pretty sure you know he is voting someone because in that very same post you accuse him of

"and it makes me think he is just trying to push through a lynch once and for all

If he isn't voting someone how can he also be trying to push a lynch through?


Also why did you not vote Havingfitz? Thor even asked you why you thought fitz was town in post 541, but you never answered him. The fact that you mis-repped veggie (now confirmed town) only shows scum motivation not town motivation.

the fact that you claim you re-evaluated your reads and even claimed that you posted them in a post where you actually didn't, is not town motivated either. It's just bold face lying. You didn't re-evaluate shit.

I also want to point out this quote from you in post 514

his Day Three opening post ("my suspect died, what to do?") which is something I think comes from scum more often than Town,

if you HONESTLY felt that, why no pressure on havingfitz? Why question Thor's vote on havingfitz? why not join the Havingfitz wagon or at the very least QUESTION him?

you have soft defended havingfitz for most of the game leading up to that point

post 238 - attack hiraki for voting havingfitz
post 254 - soft defending him by asking Hiraki why he isn't understaning havingfitz's posts
post 299 - sticking up for havingfitz cause you feel hiraki is attacking his grammar instead of substance
post 353 - defending yourself/hiraki/mert from mike's false accusation of TV
post 514 - you basically question both people voting havingfitz
post 575 - This is a weird comment "They are points to be made against you, but seeing as I have asked Thor665 to elaborate to see if there is a better case and I did not vote for you" (The reason why it is weird is you seem to have no problem putting Rach at L-2 yet you wanted a more concise case on fitz before you were willing to put him at L-2)

I see you defending a lot of other players still alive and attacking a lot of players who are all dead and were town.

vote: pj

everyone sheep me, scum found

[Jake from State Farm]

I second implementation of a deadline

[Jake from State Farm]

@ Thor - you claim you have done so much this day phase right?

Spoiler:

669 - VCA (this is null because I have seen scum do this before and it doesn't really prove anything)
670 - useless post
673 - responding to others
675 - a post
676 - respond to DCL and ask him what the case on llama was from the previous day cause you may sheep it(this right here is not what Town thor has done in lylo so this is an IMMEDIATE RED FLAG imo)
677 - useless speculation about pairings
679, 680, 683, & 684 - asking me a question about another game
690 - asks fitz a couple of questions, one of them sort of a softball question
692 - "so you wanna lynch llama?" - this adds to 676, town thor would be doing more to make a case on llama, you aren't making any case
714 - responding to people
715 - useless fluff post trying to discredit a player (scummy)
717 - responding to someone
734 - responding to people, still no effort for a case on anyone, especially llama
737 - usless fluff
738 - more trying to discredit a player instead of trying to find scum - this also implies you know I am town cause you are trying to insult my town play, if you thought I was scum you would not have said that comment (scummy and basically confirms you are scum imo)
770 - responding to me and the funniest thing ever "'I've done the most work" because 1. you haven't, I have done more "work" than you and 2. that implies "ooh I can't possibly be scum, look at me i am scumhunting and shit"

Thor is another acceptable lynch imo

[Jake from State Farm]

today?

I only want to lynch Thor or PJ so anyone else I don't really want to lynch

[Jake from State Farm]

It's almost like you haven't see my posts that explain why I changed my stance on DC and why I thought PJ/Thor are scum...

[Jake from State Farm]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4939257

[Jake from State Farm]

When I replace in and we have a bunch of dead townies and no scum, I immediately look at who the dead suspected. 9 times out if 10 a pattern can be spotted as scum usually want to kill the people suspicious of them.

I still don't fully trust DCL but I don't think he's a good lynch today

[Jake from State Farm]

1. Well...you did, but...so what if I am two? Is that the way you're showing you're the more mature of us? Mission accomplished.
2. Which I did...just not in the specific way you wanted. But I certainly addressed it and did provide an example.
3. You did mis-rep the Klick/Cyber situation with me pretty gruesomely - also, what about you did I misrep? Example please or scumclaim.
4. Yeah, but you have a very skewed perception of what I'm doing because you want to call it scummy. :shrug:

1. whatever
2. no you didn't
3. All I said is you never mentioned klick, that was true and wasn't a misrep. I forgot about cyber, but that doesn't disprove my original statement. If you look at the beginning of that game I pretty much named 3 of the 4 scum but whatever, you and I will never see eye to eye because of 4
4. you are a conceited person who refuses to believe anything you do is scummy, admit your own faults, I certainly do. You have been scummy this game, deal with it.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah, it's almost as though I didn't call him a scumread today prior to him being voted...oh, wait...

sure you may have implied you think he is scum, but you have no case for him, you can't even verbalize why you think he is scum. In fact you asked people to provide you a case so you can sheep it.

[Jake from State Farm]

I still don't think the VC is right and I certainly don't like the fact the he deleted my post calling out the wrong VC.

Don't delete my posts again please

[Jake from State Farm]

I also think pj ignored my post about him, where I caught him in a lie.

More votes on pj. Anyone not voting pj is claiming scum

[Jake from State Farm]

@thor - you were suspicious of llama for no damn reason. You want to backpedal and pull it out of your ass and claim vca or whatever, that's your issue. Asking for a case so you can sheep is proof your suspicion is fake and that's incredibly scummy.

vote: thor

In lylo you don't fucking sheep somebody else's case. You make your own case.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ PJ - post 775

[Jake from State Farm]

Huntress is null
DCL - slight town
Llama - scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

In lylo you don't Smurfing sheep somebody else's case. You make your own case.

Quote me sheeping.

You said you wanted to sheep. That shows intent to sheep. You have not made a case in him, Poe & vca isn't good enough cause vca are wrong all the time. It's an assumption based on what you hope is 1 scum on the wagon, but all town mislynches happen.

I made a better case for llama scum then you did, which makes your suspicion extremely questionable. Instead of proving yourself you just try to discredit me by calling me scum. You can't even make a case for my slot either, you just hope your baseless accusation will be enough to discredit me.

You have done jack shit this day phase to actually try to figure things out. It's a complete 180 to other games I've played with you as town. Town thor would be trying harder. That's a fact

[Jake from State Farm]

In lylo you should not want to sheep if you are town.

I disagree that you did

No, because you are voting him and I find your actions worse than his

I don't think I have played with you as scum, if I have I don't remember. But why does that matter if you aren't playing how I've seen you play as town? Not playing your town meta means you aren't town

[Jake from State Farm]

@ DCL - you claimed I town telled/slipped, just out of curiousity, what was the thing you saw?

[Jake from State Farm]

Well if this is lazy thor and you are town, I'm going to accuse you of game throwing. If you are town, stop being lazy. Until you can show me a sign of pro-town play I have to assume you are scum.

Now fuck off

[Jake from State Farm]

lol so you respond with "we'll you are doing it too!"

Which is bullshit cause I've written out 2 huge posts which explain why you and PJ are scum. That's not lazy. Nice try though

[Jake from State Farm]

And cause you are being so "lazy" 775. & 779 cause I know you will ask and pretend like you haven't seen them.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you have probelms comprehending things I suggest you pick a new game besides mafia.

My case on you makes sense to me. You aren't scum hunting, you want to sheep in lylo, you aren't playing towards your town meta, among other things.

My lack of wanting to vote llama cause a person who I think is scum is voting llama makes perfect fucking sense, are you dense much?

What's this refusal to quote nonsense about? I have no clue what you are talking about.

I haven't lied all game, nice try

Vote stays, you are scum

I'm done responding to your bullshit

[Jake from State Farm]

Your willingness to sheep is essentially the same thing, especially since you wont even consider anyone else.

I don't think you are bussing llama, if you are I'm voting scum anyway. Either way I'm voting scum. It's strange for you cause you have no case and won't even attenpt to make one. Your reasons given can easily be fabricated by scum. You aren't digging below the surface for sonething better.

How can I quote me single handily winning the game? Cause that happened. You didn't mention klick, that's true also. So you mentioned cyber, your mention of him didnt win us the game. My play did.

I'll take that as you conceding that I haven't lied.

[Jake from State Farm]

i'm not looking through shit. I know your town meta and that's enough to know you aren't town here.

VCA/POE isn't a case no matter how many times you say it is. You are going to have to do better than that.

You accused me of mis-repping you first, when I essentially proved that wasn't true that by default means you were mis-repping me. If you compare your play this game and your play that game this is 2 different thor. It's either town lazy thor (doubtful) or it's scum thor. I can't tell the difference between lazy thor and scum thor cause I have never seen lazy thor and town should not be lazy in lylo. so if you are town, you being lazy is game throwing.

If it turns out you are game throwing I'm going to investigate if this is a punishable act, cause I feel like some sort of play ban should be applied in situations where town is essentially phoning it in during the most pivotal point in the game. If there isn't such a thing I will just make sure that i never come in contact with you or play with you ever again.

[Jake from State Farm]

thor, if you are town and being lazy you are violating a site rule, which is actually a part of the rule set for this game

Play to win the game.

I feel if you are town you aren't playing to win the game

[Jake from State Farm]

You literally just ignored that I pointed out I had used more than just PoE/VCA - why?

link to your case cause I obviously haven't seen anything more than just that.

[Jake from State Farm]

You know, frankly, this is even feeling like it's going beyond the game at this stage.
Do you really just fething hate me that much that you can't play the game and just need to rage vote me and make up silly threts like reporting me to a theoretical oversight system for "not playing to my win con" when, functionally that's a claim of you being aware I'm town even with how ridiculous this is sounding.
Why the heck did you even replace in if you have this much of an issue with me if I don't immediately start worshipping you or something?
What the hell? This is basically a weird personal attack mixed with...something.

How are you expecting me to respond?

you think I am coming after you because of some grudge? that's hilarious. your play THIS FUCKING GAME. is not like what I have seen you as town. If you aren't playing towards your town meta that means you are scum.

get over yourself.

[Jake from State Farm]

You literally just ignored that I pointed out I had used more than just PoE/VCA - why?

link to your case cause I obviously haven't seen anything more than just that.

I just looked again and don't see anything remotely close to a case.

[Jake from State Farm]

I repeated it a number of times - his push on the fitz/Thor angle.

And, as noted numerous times, you and I disagree on what a case is. get over your bad self. You can't read me for gak.

Link?

[Jake from State Farm]

And why does him pushing a Thor/fitz team mean he's scum?

[Jake from State Farm]

If you don't put them in bullet form I won't.

[Jake from State Farm]

I've been trying to get my thoughts on this together but not succeeding so I'm just going to throw out a few posts that may look a bit disjointed but that I'm hoping will help me sort things out.

@ Jake:

so going through a few ISOs, especially the dead (NK'd) people and I am pretty sure scum is DCL/Thor

going to do a full re-read when I have time but a DCL wagon would be where I would vote if I had to right now. Gotta get to work, hopefully can get some more reading tonight.

You went on to say "DCL is absolutely scum." I know you changed this view later, but what actually was it in those ISOs that gave you that impression?

Already explained. The fact that most of the dead thought he was town.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah that post explains it all. I wrote down every vote and mention of name and turns out my initial read of the isos were wrong.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake...why would you make such a big deal about sheeping in LYLO when isn't that what you were essentially doing when you based your early suspicions towards DCL on what others thought of him? And your subsequent change of opinion on him?

Ex:

Jake enters game in LYLO.
Jake thinks all the dead people suspected DCL.
Jake suspects DCL.
Jake realizes perhaps all the dead people DIDN'T suspect DCL.
Jake now has slight town read on DCL.

How is that different from what you are all over Thor about?

I always look at who the dead people suspect cause that's that single best way to catch scum. Thor puts in much more effort as town.

Yeah that post explains it all. I wrote down every vote and mention of name and turns out my initial read of the isos were wrong.

No, it doesn't explain what you initially saw in those ISOs to make you think DCL was scum. It's that that I'm trying to get at.

When I skimmed the ISOs, that's what I initially saw.

[Jake from State Farm]

I assume you have used this method before with success. Can you provide a few examples?

when I replace into a game yes I absolutely use this method. I can't provide links cause they are on my alt account

on't you think sheeping dead people (like you are) is as bad as sheeping those who are still alive? Also....just because a townie is dead doesn't mean they were on the right track.

Sheeping confirmed town > sheeping people who potentially could be scum. The dead people's opinion, especially those who were KILLED by scum have a much stronger weight towards them because imo scum are more likely to kill the people who pose the biggest threat to them rather than wifom a kill. Sure some scum do wifom their kills, but in my experience it's not nearly often enough to sway me. I also remember reading a MD discussion about night kills a year or 2 ago that supports me.

[Jake from State Farm]

I repeated it a number of times - his push on the fitz/Thor angle.

And, as noted numerous times, you and I disagree on what a case is. get over your bad self. You can't read me for gak.

Link?

Link to what, me mentioning it?

I bring it up and demand explanation.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4940847
His answer suxx0rs and I vote him.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4943700
I reiterate the issue.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4944009
You ask me my reasoning, and I mention it again.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4946446

Do you need more links?

And why does him pushing a Thor/fitz team mean he's scum?

Because it shows he isn't logically scumhunting.

clarify this please.

why does it not scream fitz was scum?
what bad places were llama and mert at and why were they bad. (oh, and don't say they were voting town, I've been town before and been on every mislynch up to lylo, I want to see a legitimate reason for your read changes.)

I find this a little annoying insomuch as you also did VCA and decided fitz was a lesser scumspect...frankly I could just copy your answer and functionally answer this.
The fitz slot, though not in good positions, isn't in obvious proscum locations either. All three votecounts show a player who picked a read, hugged it, and didn't move. Twice that put him on a lynch, and once that put him on a random sub wagon. Now, could he be scum with those votes? Absolutely, it is a viable scum voting strategy, but it's also viable for town. Meanwhile, we have the Day 2 lynch with the sub wagon on you...with Mert and Llama on it, and no other scum. There was scum on that wagon, I'd bet this game on it. Both of those slots, on other days, are in scum favoring spots on the main wagons as well, strongly increasing the chances for them to be scum.

Or, y'know, insert your logic that came to the same conclusion.

The first link just shows you disagree and nothing else, Do his answers really suck or are you just mad he is right? Sounds more like OMGUS because you have yet to prove why you are pro-town. Just cause someone thinks you are scum doesn't make them automatically scum, and that's essentially all I got from that vote. A big old pile of stinking shit OMGUS. Your 3rd link doesn't prove any points either other than a big old case of "YOU STILL MAD BRO", And your last link taked me to POE (:roll:) your lame ass VCA (:roll: ) and a bunch of other shit that just proves you mad.

Nothing you have contributed is proof of his being scum and everything points to you just OMGUS'ing him.

Because it shows he isn't logically scumhunting.

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black cause guess what genius.

NEITHER ARE YOU

[Jake from State Farm]

so bottom line. Thor thinks llama is scum cause OMGUS.

Thor can't make a case that shows why he is scum nor can he explain why the VCAs point people as scum other than "cause I say so"

fuck I can do a VCA that makes anyone look like scum

Remembering Sunday: Equinox, Huntress, petroleumjelly, Thor, Mert, ChannelDelibird, DCL

Thor and PJ were the 3rd and 4th to vote. Scum ALWAYS vote either 3rd or 4th. One of them have to be scum.

mikeburnfire: havingfitz, Huntress, RachMarie, DCLXVI, petroleumjelly, Thor

Thor's hammer on mike was bad especially when their was a full day left and a potential counter wagon. Thor has to be scum

RachMarie: havingfitz, Huntress, petroleumjelly, LlamaFluff, DCLXVI

Thor stayed off the wagon cause he knew he could not be on another mislynch or people would call him on it. OMG Thor must be scum.

see? That is why VCA is flawed because you can essentially put whatever reason you want to paint someone as scummy.

POE?

Well I know I am town, I think DCL is town and Huntress feels town to me, that means Scum lies in everyone else because in my mind, process of elimination dictates that.

again POE is flawed and extremely biased on whatever reason a player wants. It's not using any scum hunting or basic logic.

so die scum, your lack of scum hunting, while accusing others of the same is just yet another reason why you are scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

Shit forgot to format that better.

Why a VCA can be used to paint anyone scummy

Remembering Sunday:

Equinox, Huntress, petroleumjelly, Thor, Mert, ChannelDelibird, DCL

Thor and PJ were the 3rd and 4th to vote. Scum ALWAYS vote either 3rd or 4th. One of them have to be scum.

mikeburnfire:

havingfitz, Huntress, RachMarie, DCLXVI, petroleumjelly, Thor

Thor's hammer on mike was bad especially when their was a full day left and a potential counter wagon. Thor has to be scum

RachMarie:

havingfitz, Huntress, petroleumjelly, LlamaFluff, DCLXVI

Thor stayed off the wagon cause he knew he could not be on another mislynch or people would call him on it. OMG Thor must be scum.

see? That is why VCA is flawed because you can essentially put whatever reason you want to paint someone as scummy.

POE?

Well I know I am town, I think DCL is town and Huntress feels town to me, that means Scum lies in everyone else because in my mind, process of elimination dictates that.

a

gain POE is flawed and extremely biased on whatever reason a player wants. It's not using any scum hunting or basic logic.

so die scum, your lack of scum hunting, while accusing others of the same is just yet another reason why you are scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ fitz - here is a link to a scum qt game where i ask why people arent analyzing nk/s - http://quicktopic.com/48/H/2Nug5Vk4gVN

[Jake from State Farm]

Im not continuing the back and forth anymore. My vote isn't changing

Peace

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah that's totally it, you caught me...

[Jake from State Farm]

@ fitz - I have 3 replacement games under my belt. 1 was a vengeful game and it was day 1. The other was a scum game, and the 3rd was day 2 and I correctly caught scum. There was 1 dead guy to use so I didn't have as much to work with.

I will actually answer 1 questions from Thor once I get to a PC. The rest is just going to result in an endless back and forth and won't change my mind.

[Jake from State Farm]

rue or false question.

Did I use PoE and VCA when we were in that other game together (the one you won single handed, natch) and I was town?
Y'know, just curious since you're calling it a scumtell on me.

false. You did not use VCA or POE. You questioned my use of VCA and you only mention POE once to again try and discredit what I said.

so this proves you are scum now right? I think so

more votes on thor please.

[Jake from State Farm]

but were either of your votes on PJ or Thor supported by what/who the dead suspected?

missed this one when I was on my phone, NO I came to the conclusion of them being scum on my own using my scum hunting and I posts explaining why I think they are scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok somehow I missed the vca, but that Poe you never use the word Poe sorry I can't assume that's what you were referring to.

So not a lie, an over site.

Can we lynch you already?

[Jake from State Farm]

Nope, I'm not changing my vote again

[Jake from State Farm]

I answered your question

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah that post explains it all. I wrote down every vote and mention of name and turns out my initial read of the isos were wrong.

No, it doesn't explain what you initially saw in those ISOs to make you think DCL was scum. It's that that I'm trying to get at.

Jake...why would you make such a big deal about sheeping in LYLO when isn't that what you were essentially doing when you based your early suspicions towards DCL on what others thought of him? And your subsequent change of opinion on him?

Ex:

Jake enters game in LYLO.
Jake thinks all the dead people suspected DCL.
Jake suspects DCL.
Jake realizes perhaps all the dead people DIDN'T suspect DCL.
Jake now has slight town read on DCL.

How is that different from what you are all over Thor about?

I always look at who the dead people suspect cause that's that single best way to catch scum. Thor puts in much more effort as town.

Yeah that post explains it all. I wrote down every vote and mention of name and turns out my initial read of the isos were wrong.

No, it doesn't explain what you initially saw in those ISOs to make you think DCL was scum. It's that that I'm trying to get at.

When I skimmed the ISOs, that's what I initially saw.

[Jake from State Farm]

You can assume whatever you want. Like I said when I originally skimmed that's what I saw. When I sat and dug deeper I was wrong. Once I dug deeper I doubt I can remember exactly what I saw when I skimmed.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh FFS are you serious? I admitted I made a mistake, that's all I'm required to do. Asking me to go back to find what I misread is just lame and pointless.

[Jake from State Farm]

If my wife will give me my laptop back I'll see if I can find what I saw originally.

[Jake from State Farm]

I will say the longer time ticks by without a post from llama, the more I think maybe I'm just really bad at reading Thor and I should just go with my gut and vote llama.

[Jake from State Farm]

at this point I don't really care, scum is obviously being lazy and I'm not really invested in this game. If llama is town, he's really doing it to himself.

I still would rather lynch thor but at this point whatever ends the day is fine with me

[Jake from State Farm]

Vote:fitz

Why no commentary along with that vote?

I express desire to vote llama and you show up and vote fitz?

[Jake from State Farm]

*show up out of the blue*

[Jake from State Farm]

I won't be hammering anyone I'm not scum.

You don't find it odd that DCL shows up and votes out of the blue?

[Jake from State Farm]

In fact it's so odd

vote: DCL

[Jake from State Farm]

you are entitled to your wrong opinion

[Jake from State Farm]

and see I was sitting here with another tab refreshing with my unvote ready in case someone was going to try and quick hammer you.

now I don't even care. if you are town, you just lost the game for the rest of us.

[Jake from State Farm]

I think it's Thor/PJ/someone else

but the way you showed up out of the blue after lurking for a couple of days without adding any sort of commentary at all, you took any town read I had on you and flushed it down the toilet.

[Jake from State Farm]

And I didn't lurk, I posted on Sunday, I did not post on monday, I did post tuesday morning.

Not posting on one day is not lurking.

More than 48 hours without a post and you show up and vote without saying anything.

That's scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

You were away for more than 48 hours.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm less concerned about the activity, but you show up and don't say anything, just vote. I'm calling out scum inactivity and expressing interest in dropping my vote on Thor and BAM, you vote fitz.

Maybe you and llama are scum and your vote looks like you are worried thor is getting people to vote your buddy.

Who knows, but you unvoted cause you wanted to figure things out, the timing of your revote is extremely off

[Jake from State Farm]

I won't be hammering anyone I'm not scum.

You don't find it odd that DCL shows up and votes out of the blue?

You're not willing to hammer someone you claim to think may be scum?

As for DCL's vote, his unvote in 794 after Llama put a second vote on Fitz in 793 shows he wasn't wanting to risk a premature hammer. If DCL was scum and Fitz town I think DCL would have just left the vote there.

you tried to imply I was waiting to quick hammer llama, I am telling you I won't be quick hammering anyone. Why are you trying to twist that around on me now?

I will not be hammering ANYONE at all unless we are near deadline.

[Jake from State Farm]

Maybe you and llama are scum

and your vote looks like you are worried thor is getting people to vote your buddy.

that pic isn't working for me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Mert is scum because of how he came into the day trying to get me lynched and his reaction to me voting you, which is to instantly start a counter-wagon on me.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake, do you seriously think llama could be my scumbuddy? What drugs are you on cause I want what you are having.

In all seriousness though, if I were to be lynched and flip scum who would you want lynched tomorrow?

1. anything is possible
2. I am not giving your scum team any additional information. They will have to either kill me or take a gamble I won't figure out your buddies

[Jake from State Farm]

In all seriousness though, if I were to be lynched and flip scum who would you want lynched tomorrow?

btw, call me dumb if I am wrong here but how is this not an admission of guilt?

[Jake from State Farm]

why would YOU ask that if YOU are town?

[Jake from State Farm]

What I asked was a hypothetical question that I can fucking guarantee has been asked multiple times by town before.

Its another way of asking you to name who you think I am scum with.

The fact that both of you are jumping on it to try and get me lynched has solidified in my mind that you are both scum.

If you are so sure, vote me. If you are town I'd love to ridicule you post game for your stupidity.

[Jake from State Farm]

the hypothetical question isn't why I am voting you, but keep telling yourself that

[Jake from State Farm]

Sue me, it was mothers-day weekend. Mom>mafia

1 post on site on Saturday
5 posts on Sunday throughout the day AFTER you post in this game very early Sunday (technically I consider this Saturday night since it was after midnight)
11 posts on Monday

yet you could not manage any posts here?

just be honest and say you were lurking, cause the facts don't lie chump

[Jake from State Farm]

or until thor/pj is around and you can pull off a quick hammer....

[Jake from State Farm]

Why not ask me to unvote?

If you are so sure I'm scum, where is your vote on me?

unvote

Cause why not.

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw, that's a slight misrep about llama. I just checked and he's had 3 posts on site since Saturday. 2 were in the open forum where he is a list mod and 1 was in a MD thread.

Compare that to the 15+ posts DCL had during the same time yet you have no issue with DCL's lurking.

I'm also in a hydra with llama's alt and he can't post during work cause its blocked.

So, what say you now Mr. Misrep?

[Jake from State Farm]

No you said he has been posting elsewhere, while technically true you implied it like he's avoiding the game.

[Jake from State Farm]

I will just take things 1 scum at a time. Once I have a flip I can better determine scum pairings.

[Jake from State Farm]

I re-evaluate after every flip, so I honestly can't tell you who I would go after. I would need to know who was on your wagon and who wasn't. I'd look at who was defending you hard and who was softly defending you, I'd have to look at people who waffled on you and those who didn't.

so I really can't answer your question. Sorry

[Jake from State Farm]

stop asking me, I'm not going to pretend anything.

my top scum reads are already known. Thor/PJ/and now you

[Jake from State Farm]

if you actually looked at my games you will see that as BOTH scum and town I will do that.

this game I am absolutely refusing to give you the satisfaction of an answer so how do you determine alignment from that? I have never refused as scum and I have never refused as town.

oh what a mind fuck right?

btw, I believe you ignored my question from a while back. At one point you claimed I town told and I asked you what that was. Can you point that out for me please. I'm curious what you thought you saw

[Jake from State Farm]

but I don't do that as scum either.

so if this is the only time in the history of playing mafia, how can you possibly determine alignment from it?

[Jake from State Farm]

Let's clear some things up ok?

I will just take things 1 scum at a time. Once I have a flip I can better determine scum pairings.

This is me telling you I won't answer your question. This makes no claims that this is how I do or do not play in other games. It just me saying what I am going to do THIS game. Because that is what I am going to do. I'm going to take each scum 1 at a time.

I re-evaluate after every flip

, so I honestly can't tell you who I would go after. I would need to know who was on your wagon and who wasn't. I'd look at who was defending you hard and who was softly defending you, I'd have to look at people who waffled on you and those who didn't.

so I really can't answer your question. Sorry

The bolded is something I absolutely do in games

you are taking what I said I won't do THIS game and trying to twist it and use my meta. My meta won't help cause like I said, it's something I am refusing to do THIS game.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you are town you would not have seen a problem with doing the speculation I asked you to do because you do it all the time.

I'm not answering you because you want me to answer you sooooo bad and not answering you is kind of funny.

Like I said earlier, I am not giving your scum buddies any more information.

[Jake from State Farm]

so you are not answering just because you want to be a dick. If you are town that is gamethrowing.

how is being a dick game throwing?

I am doing everything in my power to find scum including scum hunting and especially being active and not lurking like you have done.

not answering 1 question isn't game throwing. LOL at you

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh look, Jake speculated on what someone's alignment would be after a flip. Yep, I'm happy with my vote.

yes, I speculated on my own terms, not because you want to know asked me too

the fact that I DID speculate means I AM playing towards my town meta. Thanks for quoting that and showing me you basically have proved your accusation is false. you can unvote me now.

[Jake from State Farm]

not because you asked me too

fixed my post

[Jake from State Farm]

You did speculate, then later you refused to on the grounds that you don't do that stuff.

thats a lie

[Jake from State Farm]

Uf'da.

I'm sleepy, but DCL is at least agreeing with me that Jake is lying his pants off constantly, also, I actually have people seriously discussing a Thor/fitz/Jake scumteam...so, pretty much half the game has admitted they're not reading anything.

Unvote: Llama
Vote: Jake

Now who is whose scumbuddy?

I haven't lied at all this game. thanks

[Jake from State Farm]

no I am at L-1

waiting on whoever the last scum is to hammer me.

[Jake from State Farm]

I want DCL to at least acknowledge he mis-read my posts, I can guarantee you he can not find a post where I say what he claims I am said.

[Jake from State Farm]

Missed a few posts. So Jake is now at L-1. Unless he is scum....or everyone on his wagon is scum....town is screwed.

Thor...are you confident enough in your read on Jake to have him at L-1? I'm not voting him. I voiced suspicions of him earlier but he still is not in my top two. DCL and Llama still hold that honor based on me not being hammered when scum had the chance (assuming either DCL or Llama HAD actually been town).

I must say I am surprised you didn't hammer

[Jake from State Farm]

so that means fitz is town like my earlier gut read. I'm town.

That means scum is Thor/llama/PJ/DCL

OMG, it's like I am fucking nostradamous or something.

[Jake from State Farm]

I want DCL to at least acknowledge he mis-read my posts, I can guarantee you he can not find a post where I say what he claims I am said.

[Jake from State Farm]

I want DCL to at least acknowledge he mis-read my posts, I can guarantee you he can not find a post where I say what he claims I am said.

[Jake from State Farm]

I want DCL to at least acknowledge he mis-read my posts, I can guarantee you he can not find a post where I say what he claims I am said.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll acknowledge misreading your posts when you acknowledge I didn't scumslip with my hypothetical question.

that would mean I would be telling a lie.

[Jake from State Farm]

oh forgot about huntress

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor if town almost threw the game away, that means thor is scum almost guranteed

[Jake from State Farm]

I want DCL to at least acknowledge he mis-read my posts, I can guarantee you he can not find a post where I say what he claims I am said.

[Jake from State Farm]

lol, thor you done fucked up. how's it feel to be caught scum?

[Jake from State Farm]

Keeping my vote on Jake from State Farm

lol bro, I'm confirmed town now. change your vote or be lynched

[Jake from State Farm]

Here is what I think after my re-read

Fitz's vote has been on me too long for him to be town. I refuse to believe that scum would not have lynched me already if a townsperson had been voting me the entire day.
This means llama is town, scum llama would not vote fitz over me.
This also means that Jake is scum, as scum fitz would have hammered town Jake for the win.
Jake as scum means that thor is not likely to be scum given their very intense spat they had today.

This means that scum is Fitz/jake with either Pj or Huntres as the buddy. However, we only need two correct lynches.

I am willing to lynch either Fitz or Jake today, no one else. I'm feeling a lot more confidant about this than I was previously.

you still refuse to answer my question and now you deny I am confirmed town?

rofl

vote: dcl

thor is another acceptable lynch

[Jake from State Farm]

I want DCL to at least acknowledge he mis-read my posts, I can guarantee you he can not find a post where I say what he claims I am said.

[Jake from State Farm]

Why not DCL now?

[Jake from State Farm]

Clarity is a wonderfully amazing feeling.

vote:fitz

You misspelled Thor

[Jake from State Farm]

Kinda hate you all.

For those playing at home, this is Thor mad that his scum buddy wasn't around to hammer me.

Everyone should be voting thor. Once DCL admits he misread my post I will vote thor too.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you are town Jake then fypov I am confirmed town. So sheep me on Llama or explain how I wasn't lynched in the 2-3 days (?) Llama had his vote on me? Leave Thor alone....I'm not convinced he is scum. DCL and Llama are much safer bets.

So you think Town thor voted me for a BS reason putting me at L-1?

No, that's scum thor and when the quick hammer didnt happen he basically tells his scum team publicly that he hates them.

Llama's recent post sucks balls but Thor scum slipped hard as shit.

[Jake from State Farm]

until DCL admits he lied, I'm not changing my vote.

[Jake from State Farm]

essentially the lie is this

ou did speculate, then later you refused to on the grounds that you don't do that stuff.

I never EVER said that I don't ever speculate. That is a bold face lie and I have challenged him to quote the post where I say that.

I'm confirmed town based on the fact that thor just outed himself as scum by hopping on my wagon for a completely BS reason. ScumThor means I am town.

Earlier you claimed Thor is town because he unvoted me, but DCL unvoted me first which means the possibility of a quick hammer from llama or huntress was ruined. Thor HAD to unvote at that point because his plan was foiled by DCL's unvote. This means maybe DCL is town, but until he admits he lied and twisted my words to paint me scummy, I'm still going to vote him

There is NO WAY town Thor publically declares that he hates everyone. This comes from frustrated scum who realizes he has just been outed and the person he was voting for is now CONFIRMED TOWN.

now, VOTE THOR or stop talking to me

[Jake from State Farm]

Here's a deal for you. Vote Llama so that the niggling feeling I'm getting that you're his buddy will go away along with my increasing thoughts of voting you.

tbh i don't give a shit about your nagging feeling. Thor is confirmed scum, llama isn't.

[Jake from State Farm]

I said I don't care about your feeling. Im voting DCL for lying and refusing to admit he made a mistake. Thor accuses me of lying earlier cause I mis-read his iso in another game and I admitted my error. If DCL is going to sit there and continue to claim sonething that is obviously not true, I have to interpret that as scum pushing a lynch based on a lie.

If he admits his mistake, I will vote thor cause to me he's confirmed scum. He basically admitted it in his "you guys suck" post.

If you vote me, that's your preogrative, but I'm not sheeping you or anyone else for that matter.

[Jake from State Farm]

And for Jake from State Farm, here's the short version of my questions (for which I have asked from various angles): how is it you entered the game with a "100% scumread" prior to reading all of the players, and why would you read dead players before you read living players?

I never started the game with a 100% scumread on anyone. This is a blatant lie

672 - I say I am going to read over the weekend
696 - I say after reading I am "pretty sure" Thor/DCl is scum, later in the post I do say that DCL is absolutely scum and mention at least 1 reason why I think that (his hammer vote on Rach)
719 - I say that I am NEAR 100% on DCL, near 100% =/= 100%


I have answered the 2nd question already in post 789, 896, & 900

Why would I care what the living people had to say first? ALL of the dead people are confirmed town so their posts hold more weight than any of the alive players.

I was even questioned about me analyzing NKs by Fitz and I pointed him to the Dead QT where Thor and I played where I specifically asked why people don't analyze NKs.

so there you go, your questions answered, but they had already been answered if you took your head out of your ass and read the thread.

[Jake from State Farm]

His posts don't even make sense: he is so confident that Thor665 is scum that he is flat-out refusing to unvote DCLXVI in LyLo

as soon as DCl admits he lied, my vote will go on thor. There is no town motivation to lie and not admit that he made a mistake. His refusal to do so means he is also confirmed scum.

Nowhere have I EVER said that "I NEVER speculate partners"

He is lying. he is refusing to quote where he claims i said it because he KNOWS he is lying.

[Jake from State Farm]

Haven't really thought about it, I'm fighting my own personal battle right now.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake I didn't lie... You ate just playing around with semantics.

you are saying I said something I didn't say. how is that semantics?

[Jake from State Farm]

basically you took a statement I made where I said I wasn't going to do something THIS game and twisted it to to imply that I was saying it's something I never do.

It's worse case a lie, best case a mis-rep (accidental or blatant I am not sure)

[Jake from State Farm]

But I honestly think you scum slipped. Me refusing to speculate THIS game doesn't in anyway imply that I said I never speculate.

I guess my vote stays.

Peace out

[Jake from State Farm]

No, I'm voting confirmed scum (to me anyway)

I'm not changing my vote unless its required at deadline.

[Jake from State Farm]

IF from your POV you are claiming that you see me as confirmed scum, why the hell are you asking/expecting/demanding that I say I lied and have me call you town. Your insistence on that doesn't mesh wish you view of me as confirmed scum.

@Jake if I were to say I lied what would happen? Would I still be confirmed scum?

Yes you would be, but I'd move my vote to Thor.

[Jake from State Farm]

My point is that your attempt to make me admit that I lied (over something I do not think I lied about) seems pointless because regardless of my response your view of me is not going to change.

At least I'd know you were a respectable player. Even if you are somehow not scum, your refusal to adnit your error shows you have no respect for the game. If you mis-read/mis-interpret sonething, it's considered the "right thing to do"

When I make mistakes in own up to them. If you think I implied something, thats one thing and I could understand you misinterpreting that. But you are saying I straight up SAID sonething that I never said. That makes it a lie.

[Jake from State Farm]

You seem more sure of DCL than you do if llama, yet you push a llama lynch cause of the resistance. Resistance is a key element to running up scum, the 2 partners are going to make it near impossible for scum to be lynched by dividing their votes amongst the townies.

What makes me confirmed IMO is thor's out if the blue vote change to put me at L-1 for a BS reason and his reaction when DCL unvoted. Saying "I hate you guys" was a direct message to his partners cause they aren't organized enough to pull off a quick hammer when it's sitting in their lap.

Llama was online last night but didnt post until after my wagon fell apart. I think llama could be scum, but I'm more sure about Thor. PJ is being a fucking idiot right now and quite frankly so is DCL(if he's town)

Yes I'm acting like a stubborn idiot right now, cause I don't appreciate what DCL did. There was no town motivation for him asking the "when I flip scum" comment. There's no town motivation for him lying about me. But he did unvote me when he didnt have to and instead voted you, that is the only thing that gives me pause. If he would just man up and admit his mistake I'd move on but as long as he is pushing a lie, he has to go. Lynch all liars

[Jake from State Farm]

@jake, you do realized that you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing me of doing right? that's called hypocrisy..

I'm sorry I don't see you as the shining beacon of townness that you think you are. Deal with it. I truly believe I have a legitimate case.

I'm not doing anything remotely close to what you are doing.

[Jake from State Farm]

Are you saying you expect scum to not lie? Oh please now.

is this an admission of guilt?

look here and see if I can explain it to you.

1. the question you asked I have interpreted this as a scumslip
2. your unvote of me when I was at L-1 gives you some town cred

those 2 cancel each other out.

3.

So Jake says he doesn't deal with hypothetical flips and doesn't make prediction on what will happen if someone flips scum.

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE TO THIS

so this is a lie/misinterpretation of my posts

A. Town lies/misinterpreted - when they realize it they correct themselves
B. Scum lies/misinterpreted - when they realize it they ignore and pretend like it's true.

which one are you doing? you are doing A.

I have even given the chance to go find the post where I make that claim, yet you refuse to.

[Jake from State Farm]

You aren't acting in the normal way a town player acts when they think someone is scum.

you are right, because I am not 100% sure you are scum, i realize I could possibly be wrong but due to your refusal to admit your mistake I have to assume you are lying and as you said yourself, scum lie.

[Jake from State Farm]

In addition to the other stuff I have already posted, these 2 quotes do not come from a town perspective and the 2nd is basically frustration at his scum partners for not being around to quick hammer when they got a chance.

Heck;

Unvote: Jake
Vote: Llama

Waiting.

Kinda hate you all.

[Jake from State Farm]

sorry wrong quote in the first one

[Jake from State Farm]

This quote

Uf'da.

I'm sleepy, but DCL is at least agreeing with me that Jake is lying his pants off constantly, also, I actually have people seriously discussing a Thor/fitz/Jake scumteam...so, pretty much half the game has admitted they're not reading anything.

Unvote: Llama
Vote: Jake

Now who is whose scumbuddy?

also the "heck" comment is interesting cause again it shows frustration that they didn't quick hammer me when they had the chance.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake..the I know you are but what am I shit with DCL (and Thor iirc) is getting old.

fair enough. I have given him multiple opportunities and he is not changing his opinion so I shall leave my vote on him for the remainder of the day.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ DCL since when does "I will" mean "I never"?

I was referring to THIS game. You obviously have a reading problem

[Jake from State Farm]

I sure hope you are scum cause if you just threw the game away cause you don't know the definition of the word will, I'm gonna facepalm.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ DCL since when does "I will" mean "I never"?

I was referring to THIS game. You obviously have a reading problem

Yep, you said you would for this game, which is completely different than you normally play, which likely indicates you are scum. Comprende?

1 has nothing to do with the other. Like I said as scum I speculate also, cause I'm trying to appear town aka mirror my town meta.

This is lylo, with no scum flips. I'm not comfortable making associative links until we get at least 1 scum flip.

[Jake from State Farm]

Final thing I want to say about Jake before I'm done for now.

Basically I told him that I would reconsider my case on him if he was willing to reconsider his case on me. He refused to reconsider his case on me (the scumslip in particular) so I find it so ironic that he is the one going all out saying I have no respect for the game because I'm not willing to change my reads when he is the one also refusing to change his reads.

And i said that if I said I didn't think your scumslip was actually a scumslip, I'd be lying. So if I'm keeping my integrity and not lying I guess you have to vote me. And post game when I'm town I'll tell you the same thing. I HONESTLY feel its a scumslip.

[Jake from State Farm]

I sure hope are scum jake because the way you have been being a complete ass is pretty close to gamethrowing imo.

I'm town and being an ass isn't game throwing. Asking me to lie to save my ass isn't something I'm going to do. If we lose at least I have my integrity.

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw if you are town, you refusing to admit you lied is more game throwing that me trying to prove I didn't say what you claim I did. Proving a lie was said =/= game throwing.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yep, you said you would for this game, which is completely different than you normally play, which likely indicates you are scum. Comprende?

going to ask this again because your first answer doesn't make sense.

if EVERY GAME I have EVER PLAYED including the games where I am scum, I speculate about partners. how does the fact that this ONE GAME where I refuse to do it indicate alignment?

I mean this is basically why you are lynching me, because you think you have caught me doing something that I normally do as town, but your point goes out the window because it's something I also do as scum. If you are going to throw the game away from this, YOU are game throwing. because this is the most retarded reason to vote someone, especially when i have explained WHY I am not making connections.

[Jake from State Farm]

I've been ignoring the arguing here today and instead I've been reading some of DCL's old games to check my read on him with the result that I'm sticking with my town read there.

I've not seen anything to change my read on Jake and as he's the one I'm surest of at the moment that's where my vote is going if I can fit the rest of the puzzle together. I'm still not certain enough about it though so I won't be voting tonight as I want to recheck some stuff first. I'm working through the full list of possible scum teams seeing what I can rule out. I'm down to seven at the moment, six of which include Jake.

Out of curiousity, how many combinatons are there where I am not scum?

[Jake from State Farm]

m town and being an ass isn't game throwing.

Asking me to lie to save my ass isn't something I'm going to do. If we lose at least I have my integrity.

Its kind of funny how you have been asking me to do the same thing and yet seem shocked when I won't.

See the reality is you are taking something I'm doing this game and trying to fit it into an alignment tell (think square peg in a round hole)

I explained in detail why I'm not comfortable naming partners this game. With absolutely no scum flips, you could really be partnered with anyone.

You want me to say something you said isn't a scum slip, but i honestly feel that it was. The fact having fitz agrees with me makes me feel even better.

Do you not see how those 2 things are not even close to being the same thing?

If not, well idk what else to say to you. My decision to not name partners is game specific cause of the situation we are in.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you flip scum, I would need to see who voted you. Who didn't vote you, who waffled on you, etc etc (already covered all of this)

If you want me to put everyone in a hat and draw 2 names to make you feel better, I can do that.

[Jake from State Farm]

@jake, you haven't shown any problems in the past with make prediction on what to do after a flip so why aren't you willing to right now?

tbh I don't think I have ever replaced into a game in lylo/mylo where there has been absolutely no scum flips before. This is a new one for me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw, that comment about axle & primate, I was scum with primate that game. Ooh look, me as scum speculating.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake...does your other (or one of your other) user names have the initials D.H. ?

No

[Jake from State Farm]

One of my alts has the initials R.C. though...

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm afraid to go to bed cause I feel like the game is going to be over tonight. DCL/PJ one of you please unvote me. I am town. I should be pretty obvious town at that if you think about it.

[Jake from State Farm]

oh ffs

take off the blinders please.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah, that AtE is really making me want to unvote you.

you realize AtE is null right? scum and town both use AtE

look at the facts. you are voting me because I won't answer your question. how the fuck is that a valid reason?

p.edit - i'm not moving my vote. If my stubborness gets me lynched, so be it.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you're town I'm going to really be annoyed at your play.

Good night.

I am town and why are you annoyed because I am voting who I think is scum?

that makes no sense. I am more sure of thor/dcl than I am about llama and you want me to just sheep you? I'm not sheeping anyone.

[Jake from State Farm]

fitz was calling me scummy, why would he not just hammer me if he and I were scum together? Why would I be refusing to join him on a llama wagon if we were scum together?

nothing about our play suggests that we are scum together.

and YES everyone has voted in the past 24 hours, but when I was at L-1 (llama & Huntress) were not posting. Looking at the vote count, you have not been at L-2 at all when any combination of Thor/llama/pj/huntress have posted

When I put you at L-2 (Thor/Huntress/llama/PJ) did not post online together. Huntress posted I believe but nobody else and I unvoted.

When I vote you again to put you at L-2, Havingfitz unvoted you.

the fact is you have NEVER been in a position for scum to come in and quick hammer you because there is never a time when 3 of the group (thor/huntress/pj/llama) have posted together. The closest was probably last night. when everyone was at L-1

PJ/thor/llama fluff were online at the same time but PJ was voting me already, llama was voting fitz already, and thor was voting llama so if scum was in that grouping, there could be NO WAY that a quick hammer could happen.

Yo don't find Thor's vote change to me a little bit odd? especially given the fact that shortly after everyone else showed up and started posting again?

there is absolutely NO WAY fitz and I are a scum team. You are probably town because of your unvote of me so on that aspect alone I will

unvote

if you were scum you would have just left your vote on me, you would not have switched to fitz who imo is the closest to confirmed town. the fact that you refuse to believe it is a slight town tell.

If I am right about you, scum is in the group of Thor/llama/pj/huntress.

please think about it some more. Go look at the timings of their posts, go look at the reaction to Thor once I wasn't at L-1 anymore. WHo the fuck says "Heck" like that? go look at his "I hate you all" comment. At the very least ask him what he meant by it.

put yourself into the mindset of me being town and ask yourself if Thor's vote looks off to you. If his reaction to me not being at L-1 anymore looks off to you.

This isn't AtE, this is using logic and reasoning.

[Jake from State Farm]

everyone has posted, not voted.

[Jake from State Farm]

What I'm town now? I thought I was lying scum who also scumslipped whom you were never going to unvote?

I still think that was a scum slip, or at the very least something stupid that no townie should EVER EVER EVER say/ask

but fitz is right, if you were scum there would be no reason for you to unvote me when I was at L-1, unless you and I were scum together, which we aren't.

conceding that I am being a stubborn prick, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt for now anyway.

[Jake from State Farm]

then why is fitz still voting me?

fitz isn't voting you, he's voting llama

[Jake from State Farm]

mybad, he was referring to thor not you. I believe I did point out that you unvoted me first and than he later said

"When you got to L-1 last night DCL was sure as shit quick to unvote you."

so I mis-read sorry

[Jake from State Farm]

Here is fitz's original post

You're not confirmed town to me so you could have been sitting at L-1 and not lynched simply because I didn't suspect you enough to risk the game on it. And you weren't at L-1 long...so the other possibility is that scum didn't hammer because they didn't get in here in time.

But Thor had no reason..as scum...to unvote you if you are in fact town. He could have easily called it a night like I had and left you for Llama or Huntress to hammer you.

So stop focking around and vote Llama.

I also thought I corrected Fitz and pointed out that you unvoted first, but I can't find that post.

[Jake from State Farm]

the correct chain of events

Thor puts me at L-1
dcl unvotes post 1037
VC in post 1044 shows PJ/Thor voting me
Thor unvotes in post 1049 after saying "heck"
PJ posts in 1053
llama posts in 1054
Thor says "kinda hate you all" in post 1055

how does that not look like a blown quick hammer setup

[Jake from State Farm]

and yes, fitz should consider your unvote a pro-town move, instead he gave credit to Thor which makes no sense. but if fitz was scum i'd be game over right now so dispite the credit to the wrong person, I kind of feel like he is still town.

The person we should be questioning at least is Thor.

explain the "heck"

explain the "hate you all"

given the chain of events and timing of posts and all that jazz

[Jake from State Farm]

interesting notes.

Huntress/PJ/Thor were on the first 2 mislynches and the 3rd Thor was off. (fwiw)

llama was ONLY on the Rach mislynch.

Thor never votes Huntress or PJ
Thor only votes Fitz, Vegie(sheep vote & vegie is town), Fitz, llama

ACfan - never votes Huntress or PJ
ACfan only votes - DCL, Sunday(town), Mert aka ME, mike (town)

PJ - never votes Huntress or Thor/Ac
PJ votes - Mert, Sunday(town), Rach(town), Hiraki(town), mike (town), vegie (town), Jake

Huntress never votes - Thor/AC or PJ
Huntress votes - Equinox (town), Sunday (town), mike (town), llama, Mert, Rach(town)

posts from Huntress
384 - "looking at acefan now Thor"
457 - questions fitz thinking Thor should have been NK'd
499 - fos on thor but he is in 4th place for where he would vote
630 - iffy about thor & PJ
706 - I think it's llama/Jake as scum with fitz/pj/thor as the 3rd
923 - leaning scum on llama (no vote?) town on fitz and not sure about Jake/Thor
942 - "thor/jake/fitz for the scum team?"

384 - null on PJ
499 - thinks pj would be a better mafia kill over thor
630 - iffy about pj
706 - pj as a possibility for the 3rd, thinks PJ is the "joker in the pack"
923 - "I have a half of mind to vote pj" but of course doesn't, later in the same post "agrees with pj about DCL being town"
930 - says he doesn't think pj's theory is valid
989 - I agree with pj about dcl but me agreeing with him doesn't stop me from thinking he is scum
991 - possible pj/llama team
995 - thinks pj's absence is why we have not had a hammer yet
1001 - still think pj is why there has been no hammer
1081 - think pj killed CDB to setup huntress


PJ on Thor

427 - Hiraki's death implicates Thor, but cause he replaced in it could be just speculative
bunch of posts talking about Thor but not really giving reads, pointing out how thor hasn't been reading
pj never gives a read one way or the other on Thor (unless I missed it)

391 - calls huntress a town read with DCL
774 - this is where PJ says that in post 540 he specifically mentioned he dropped huntress as a town read (I prove that he never did say that)
800 - says he has not been open about why huntress is a town read
803 - says he can see huntress paired with llama
813 - says it was because of CDB that he dropped his town read on huntress, refers to huntress as possibly being "savy scum"
845 - says he never said he was dropping huntress as a town read and never dropped huntress as a town read (this is a direct contradiction to post 774 where PJ says "Post #540 (where I reassert that DCLXVI still reads as Town even on Day Three) drops my Townread on Huntress, who I had had as a Townread for Days One and Two. " SO did pj actually drop his town read or did he not?
1053 - calls huntress my partner, says we are distancing from each other, etc etc


I REALLY have to go to bed, but I want to dig through llama's vote patters/comments later.

right now I am leaning to a thor/pj/huntress scum pair, but this could change after I dig through llama.

nite nite

[Jake from State Farm]

actually, a PJ, Thor, huntress team doesn't work.

actually look at the post I just made, those 3 ABSOLUTELY work.

[Jake from State Farm]

@jake, here is the only way I will unvote you.

You need to convince me that from my POV as town, that there is another scum-team that makes sense that doesn't include you.

it's like I was reading your mind. That is what I have been working on for the past 1/2 hour.

[Jake from State Farm]

look at PJ & Huntress vote history, can they be wrong THAT many times and still be town? one would have to say no

and please don't glance over the contradiction from PJ where he says he drops huntress as a town read, but doesn't really but he alters his read because of CDB and now huntress and i are somehow a scumteam but it really doesn't make any sense.

[Jake from State Farm]

look at PJ & Huntress vote history, can they be wrong THAT many times and still be town? one would have to say no

and please don't glance over the contradiction from PJ where he says he drops huntress as a town read, but doesn't really but he alters his read because of CDB and now huntress and i are somehow a scumteam but it really doesn't make any sense.

[Jake from State Farm]

keep in mind what I said earlier, this is the kind of game where you can easily keep your partners alive. teaming up and not voting each other is optimal play in this kind of game because there is no PR to investigate them.

[Jake from State Farm]

Right after fitz and thor vote llama. Huntress and PJ both show up. Neither vote llama despite calling fitz and myself town.

go back and look

PJ posts at 8:28 am
huntress posts at 8:59 am

pj never posts again.

in order to organize a quick lynch, both of your buddies have to be on posting at the same time. pj isn't going to just show up and vote, he needs to make sure one of his partners is online.

classic example of how to do a quick hammer is in this game - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1200

read that game. Rob/Jacob are scum

rob posts 9:05
Jacob posts 9:10
rob keeps posting to show he is around
rob votes
BOOM, hammer comes in and game over.

pj/huntress have not been around to do that.

[Jake from State Farm]

anyway, I am spent.

good night

[Jake from State Farm]

If Fitz is town scum would have been able to win already. And llama scum doesn't work with Fitz scum. Fitz and Jake are the only two lynches that need to happen for town to win.

You are so close minded, it's this post that makes me doubt your towniness

If I'm lynched town loses

If fitz is lynched :shrug: but since he didnt hammer me, he's probably town. Your refusal to even consider anyone else is mind boggling