Open 479: White Flag (Game Over)

[DCLXVI]

llama's vote is on fitz, he is not waiting around to hammer anyone.

[Huntress]

What I implied was that as he had been around then it was likely to be Pj's absence that meant no hammer had occurred.

DCL: That wouldn't stop him switching to you.

[DCLXVI]

I know, but it doesn't explain past behavior.

So huntress, if I'm not misunderstanding you. You think the scumteam is llama, pj, and jake?

Why then did none of them jump on the fitz/dcl crossvote at the beginning of day 4?
Why did pj and jake waste time tunneling and crossvoting?
Why did llama not just vote me? In fact, why I am alive if they are the scumteam?

Llama and jake both could have voted me without too much suspicioun as they had both previiously voted me. PJ then could have easily hammered. If they were the scumteam the game would have ended a week ago.


-----

And look the 'slip' thing was not a slip. In fact I'll ask it again.

@Everyone considering (or already) voting me, if I flip scum, who do you lynch next. In other words, who do you think is scum with me?

Hint: If you are having trouble finding two suitable partners that makes sense it is probably cause I am town.

[DCLXVI]

Basically, if your scumteam guess is accurate huntress the game should have been over had they acted in even a remotely logical fashion. I strongly ask you to reconsider your town read of fitz.

[DCLXVI]

@jake

the above posts are why discussing scumteams is important. Because from voting patterns it can become clear that it doesn't make sense for certain combinations of players to be scum together.

[Jake from State Farm]

I will just take things 1 scum at a time. Once I have a flip I can better determine scum pairings.

[DCLXVI]

That is a very bad approach to the game.

If the one player you are looking at cannot logically be paired with anyone else as scum then that player is not scum.

Ignoring scum-pairings is stupid. By doing so you are limiting your own scum-hunting and limiting the information available to the town.

-----------------

Let's use our imagination Jake.

let's assume it is day 5. I have been lynched and flipped scum. You are still alive.

In this scenario, who do you vote and why?

Again, this is not me claiming scum or slipping that I will flip scum, I am simply making a scenario based on your assumption that I will flip scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

I re-evaluate after every flip, so I honestly can't tell you who I would go after. I would need to know who was on your wagon and who wasn't. I'd look at who was defending you hard and who was softly defending you, I'd have to look at people who waffled on you and those who didn't.

so I really can't answer your question. Sorry

[DCLXVI]

Pretend a flip has happened and reevaluate right now. How hard can it be to do that? Of course you won't have all the information but can you please give me your best answer with the information that you have.

And if you still don't want to do that can you at least state your top three scumread at the moment.

[Jake from State Farm]

stop asking me, I'm not going to pretend anything.

my top scum reads are already known. Thor/PJ/and now you

[DCLXVI]

So Jake says he doesn't deal with hypothetical flips and doesn't make prediction on what will happen if someone flips scum. what a bunch of bullshit. I iso'd him and found that he actual does. Basically, this proves that he is a lier.

if we let kthx live than kthx needs to shoot either mastin or AP if we lynch him and indeed flips SK than tomorrow we lynch AP.

P.edit - if kthx flipped scum that wouldn't confirm you as town lol

Axxle - probably town, especially if Primate is scum. ISO 34 in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

If maverick flips scum than the other person on the paper tomorrow. ISO 51 in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Nacho, will it help if I will lynch metal tomorrow if bulder flips town?

Switch to bulder and be a hero. ISO 183 in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

If you Flip scum it just means he did it to gain town cred since he has none right now.

econd if metal does get lynched and happens to flip town, you are getting lynched day 3 and there won't be this long drawn out discussion where you can make excuses for yourself and try and discredit the attack on you, It will be quick and painless process for everyone. ISO 209 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

Despite his proclamation to take things one scum at a time. It is clear that Jake has consistently and constantly engaged in speculation as to what may happen after a flip. His refusal to answer my question about potential partners is something that absolutely does not fit with his meta.

unvote fitz
vote: jake

[DCLXVI]

Also, in my read through's of Jake's iso's I never once saw him make the claim that he only takes things one scum at a time. Granted I was skimming, but given the obvious proof that he does normally engage in that type of speculation it seems pretty clear that he is not playing to his meta.

[Jake from State Farm]

if you actually looked at my games you will see that as BOTH scum and town I will do that.

this game I am absolutely refusing to give you the satisfaction of an answer so how do you determine alignment from that? I have never refused as scum and I have never refused as town.

oh what a mind fuck right?

btw, I believe you ignored my question from a while back. At one point you claimed I town told and I asked you what that was. Can you point that out for me please. I'm curious what you thought you saw

[DCLXVI]

My apologies for missing the question, I honestly forgot what I had thought you town told about.
-----

As to that other stuff.

Here is my point. You claim that you take things one scum at a time (in other words no future speculation). However, this is not how you normally act. Therefor it shows that you are lying. Town would have no reason to lie or deviate from normal behavoir therefor you are scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

but I don't do that as scum either.

so if this is the only time in the history of playing mafia, how can you possibly determine alignment from it?

[DCLXVI]

Scum act towards whatever they believe will best benefit them in a game. Your scum meta is not terribly important here as it really isn't relavent.

However, your town meta is relevant as town play tends to be more consistent. If you are town you would not have seen a problem with doing the speculation I asked you to do because you do it all the time. The fact that you refused to do so and made up a bullshit excuse shows that you are scum trying to avoid answering a question that could get you in trouble.

[Jake from State Farm]

Let's clear some things up ok?

I will just take things 1 scum at a time. Once I have a flip I can better determine scum pairings.

This is me telling you I won't answer your question. This makes no claims that this is how I do or do not play in other games. It just me saying what I am going to do THIS game. Because that is what I am going to do. I'm going to take each scum 1 at a time.

I re-evaluate after every flip

, so I honestly can't tell you who I would go after. I would need to know who was on your wagon and who wasn't. I'd look at who was defending you hard and who was softly defending you, I'd have to look at people who waffled on you and those who didn't.

so I really can't answer your question. Sorry

The bolded is something I absolutely do in games

you are taking what I said I won't do THIS game and trying to twist it and use my meta. My meta won't help cause like I said, it's something I am refusing to do THIS game.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you are town you would not have seen a problem with doing the speculation I asked you to do because you do it all the time.

I'm not answering you because you want me to answer you sooooo bad and not answering you is kind of funny.

Like I said earlier, I am not giving your scum buddies any more information.

[DCLXVI]

@Jake, I asked you the following question that you have refused to answer "If I flip scum, who would you vote tomorrow" You refused to answer it on the grounds that it is something you do not do. I provided 7 examples of you doing just that. Therefor it does show that you are not following your meta.

Found something from this game even.

Still scummy cause I can't find much in your iso,

but if pj is scum it's possible you are town.

Oh look, Jake speculated on what someone's alignment would be after a flip. Yep, I'm happy with my vote.

PEDIT,

so you are not answering just because you want to be a dick. If you are town that is gamethrowing.

[Jake from State Farm]

so you are not answering just because you want to be a dick. If you are town that is gamethrowing.

how is being a dick game throwing?

I am doing everything in my power to find scum including scum hunting and especially being active and not lurking like you have done.

not answering 1 question isn't game throwing. LOL at you

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh look, Jake speculated on what someone's alignment would be after a flip. Yep, I'm happy with my vote.

yes, I speculated on my own terms, not because you want to know asked me too

the fact that I DID speculate means I AM playing towards my town meta. Thanks for quoting that and showing me you basically have proved your accusation is false. you can unvote me now.

[Jake from State Farm]

not because you asked me too

fixed my post

[DCLXVI]

yes, I speculated on my own terms, not because you want to know asked me too

the fact that I DID speculate means I AM playing towards my town meta. Thanks for quoting that and showing me you basically have proved your accusation is false. you can unvote me now.

It doesn't work like that. You did speculate, then later you refused to on the grounds that you don't do that stuff. That pretty much proves you are scum due to the inconsistency.

My case on you is that you are lying. Do you comprehend that? The fact that you speculated at one point and then later absolutely refused to because it isn't something you do shows you are lying.

Now you are backtracking by saying you don't speculate on other peoples terms, only your own. That wasn't the first excuse you gave me. Nice try scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

You did speculate, then later you refused to on the grounds that you don't do that stuff.

thats a lie

[Thor665]

Uf'da.

I'm sleepy, but DCL is at least agreeing with me that Jake is lying his pants off constantly, also, I actually have people seriously discussing a Thor/fitz/Jake scumteam...so, pretty much half the game has admitted they're not reading anything.

Unvote: Llama
Vote: Jake

Now who is whose scumbuddy?