Open 520: Stacking the Deck Part II - Game Over...Mafia Win!

[elleheathen]

Hey all!

VOTE: awestfie

Pointless? If it does nothing but get people talking, it's still a success.

[elleheathen]

elle, indeed.
No such curse of obedience here.

[elleheathen]

I'd be willing to discuss about RVS votes. This one is better, IMO:
VOTE: anorway

I think you may be on to something. I will sheep you!

VOTE: anorway

Discuss!

[elleheathen]

VOTE: Soundsofmusic

I have consulted the Luck Gods, and it has chosen them.

But are they good luck or bad luck Gods?

[elleheathen]

Well that's unfortunate that we rolled IC. That's probably the worst role we could have gotten.

Why? I would have though it would be one of the best? Not only is it a confirmed town that we won't run the risk of mislynching but it has the potential depending on what we get with it to cause possible missed NK's. Though I like it most because it's one less person that I need to at.

Considering most of you all have played together before, how beneficial do you think your meta reads have been and/or will be?

[elleheathen]

And true, I guess we have to weigh the potential benefit of having a good experienced player alive who's town vs. the easier time we'll have reading newer players + avoiding an experienced mafia player misdirecting us. Perhaps we can reach a good balance of having some experienced players with more newer players alive.

So at the very least I'd prefer taking out one experienced player from the get go.

As one of those 'newer players' not really wanting to argue the point but

that

is exactly why I like having a confirmed. I have a tendency to think everything ever looks sketchy though but had you not been IC, I'd have really questionned (and wasted a shitton of time tunneling on it) why you might want to take out someone not based on your reads and/or their scumminess but because of their experience - something that might actually help us out more in the long run.

But yeah, I get your point on why an IC might not be as ideal as I was thinking.

[elleheathen]

I feel like I'm missing something but:

Why would you even claim right now, bubba? Unknown setup, Day 1, no pressure. Unless you're scum trying to either out our real PR's or because you don't think you'll be counter-claimed this early, I'm not getting it. Reasoning please?

I don't give a shiz about helping my alignment.

Orly.

So I kinda want to take a wagon like a man, so we can get something out of the people on the wagon.

I somewhat want a wagon on me so we have SOMETHING to analyze, this game's running really slow.

I don't see how

asking

people to join a wagon on you will give you so much to really go on but:

VOTE: bubbajack8

Okay. Analyze away.

[elleheathen]

Why would you even claim right now, bubba? Unknown setup, Day 1, no pressure. Unless you're scum trying to either out our real PR's or because you don't think you'll be counter-claimed this early, I'm not getting it. Reasoning please?

I didn't claim?

Oh so, this isn't you?:

And that would be blue blood on your hands.

My bad.

VOTE: elle Of the people on my wagon she seems to be just joining to fulfill my request. Instead of actually caring of alignment. That goes for anorway as well.

Coming from:

I don't give a shiz about helping my alignment.

that carries a lot of weight, yo. Srs. Oh but wait:

And when I said I don't give a shiz about helping my alignment, it was in response to Sakura's post and should be read "I don't give a shiz about helping PROVE my alignment." As that is what she was talking about.

Good save.

Also, this:

VOTE: elle Of the people on my wagon she seems to be just joining to fulfill my request.

Misrep much? This might actually make sense if I hadn't specifically stated in the same post what it was that I found sketchy about you - and asked you to elaborate on.

Great analysis...

[elleheathen]

Admittedly, I'm

slacking

behind. RL. </3

So apologies in advance for the quote walls to come.

Now, first thing.

Why would you even claim right now, bubba? Unknown setup, Day 1, no pressure. Unless you're scum trying to either out our real PR's or because you don't think you'll be counter-claimed this early, I'm not getting it. Reasoning please?

I didn't claim?

Oh so, this isn't you?:

And that would be blue blood on your hands.

My bad.

That's alignment. Not role.

Can I get an outside perspective on this at all? Is 'blue blood' a typical reference for town alignment here? My initial response to this is pretty much 'OhfuckI'mdumb' but given what followed, I wouldn't mind hearing someone else's take on this. I don't think it'll matter much now because my read (to follow) is a bit stronger now than it was then but be good to know if only for future reference...

[elleheathen]

Second:

I was the first one to come out and say that if he hadn't been the IC, that jsmith would have been my lynch target.
What's the difference between what I said and what Mutley and/or Jason said besides perhaps maybe tone? Without a vote behind it, it's trivial.

I say it here and am not attacked for it:

had you not been IC, I'd have really questionned (and wasted a shitton of time tunneling on it) why you might want to take out someone not based on your reads and/or their scumminess but because of their experience - something that might actually help us out more in the long run.

Jason says it here and is not attacked for it:

You are the worst Innocent Child ever, but thank god you are or i would lynch the fucking shit out of you.

And then Mutley says it here:

Can we lynch the IC please just for stupidness?

And

is

attacked for it. Now, mine was phrased nicely. Jason's was said bluntly. And Mutley's was posed as a question. The only actual difference I can see here is that it may be difficult to see sarcasm in text form? The point is being missed.

Because really, if you're taking it as anything more than:

DUDE WTF MAN. YOU'RE OUR IC AND YOUR LOGIC SUCKS MONKEY BALLS. YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE THE IC OR I'D LYNCH YOU ALL DAY.

You are

reaching

.

[elleheathen]

Third:

Fuzzy, you of all people know I've done this as town, c'mon bro! I can't believe you right now. You're just gonna let me die? I mean I understand you don't like me and all but really, gonna lose a game for that? Wow brosiff.

Jsmith, if you do go through my games youll notice I always get to L-2 the first day. And each and every time ive been town.

There's a bunch of these types of posts where you're referencing past games and/or those that have played them with you as if to prove that you're town somehow. I can't actually tell if that's a honest plea for them to wake up and realize your normal town play - or if it's just as likely that you're using it because you're intentionally playing against your meta and referencing them so that they doubt their reads on you.

So this one leaves me kind of null.

But then we have:

I should be convincing the people on my wagon I'm town? Hell they'll be convinced after the fact.

But if I convince you I'm town you'll think I'm trying to redirect your attention.

@Sakura: I'm not Jester -_- I just don't give a F about being lynched, because ultimately it will help town when they realize I am town.

This is really, really town and it is also something I would personally say as town and have trouble faking as scum

I was actually really inclined to agree. Until:

It's scummy to not care if a clear dies

By your own logic, you don't care if a clear dies.
Well, if you

were

actually town, at least in your own mind, YOU ARE A CLEAR.
You know of your innocence, if nobody else does.
So you saying that you don't care if you die, again, by your logic, is scummy.

With that said, I understand that a town is less likely to care if they die than a scum might be but that should be because we have done all we can to try and convince town that we're town and provided them with all the information that we can from that point - but I don't feel like you're actually doing that.

If you do end up getting lynched and you do end up flipping town, remember the above when you're silently saying your "I told you so" - because you're not helping us. But at this point, I don't see that happening. I feel like it's more likely that you're going to give everyone a 'FUCK YOU' "bah!" post when you flip scum.

So, yeah - my votes pretty solid.

[elleheathen]

Elle- Who are you referring to?

bubba. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[elleheathen]

@elle: bubba not caring if he dies isn't scummy according to his logic, because obviously by clear he meant a publicly-agreed clear (which is the common definition of "clear" in this game). While I agree with your logic that all townies, regardless of their role, should care if they get lynched, your logic that bubba is scummy based on his own argument is flawed imo.

I understand it's flawed - but it just seems really contradictory to his previous arguments. Which is why I explained further my thinking with what followed. Also, was misinterpreting clear to mean something more like innocent. (Ty for explaining. )

[elleheathen]

Blue = town
Red = mafia.

Can I get an outside perspective on this at all?

I'd just like confirmation from someone other than you. As it stands, I have a scum read on you so I'm not likely to believe it unless it comes from someone else.

[elleheathen]

@elle:
then I think it's safe

never safe!

Because scum should worry about the wagon. I'm legitamenlty not worried.

As I said before L-2 is not something to worry about.... Unless you're scum.

Is this supposed to be you not worried right now?

@elle: No prob. So does that mean after clarifying the definition of "clear", you no longer think bubba's point is contradictory to his previous arguments?

On that single point: Less contradictory but no less scummy.

It wasn't so much about that single statement than it was about the whole of them saying that he didn't care if he got lynched. Which prompted:

I understand that a town is less likely to care if they die than a scum might be but that should be because we have done all we can to try and convince town that we're town and provided them with all the information that we can from that point - but I don't feel like you're actually doing that.

He says he has but reading his ISO, I don't see much of anything besides statements saying that he's town in the midst of a RWARANGRYCAPSPARTYRWAR.

Sakura called it pretty accurately with:

Here's a summary of bubba's reason for saying he's town: "I'm town"
Here's a summary of bubba's reasonings for saying mutley's scum "He thinks I'm scum"

Besides arguing the Innocent Child issue to the grave, which leads me to refer you back to:

The point is being missed.

Because really, if you're taking it as anything more than:

DUDE WTF MAN. YOU'RE OUR IC AND YOUR LOGIC SUCKS MONKEY BALLS. YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE THE IC OR I'D LYNCH YOU ALL DAY.

You are

reaching

.

Because this seems like the only other thing that you might construe as actually helping? It's not helping - it's hindering. Because we keep having to go back to explain how this is ridiculous. You're talking about circles - but you're creating them.

Even if you were to flip town, how is this going to help? If you haven't noticed, it's a pretty general consesus that we'd rather vote someone that's scummy as opposed to someone based solely on experience level.

And that is all that the IC issue is saying.

We disagree (some more aggressively than others ) with his way of lynching. END. STOP.

The only benefit I can even remotely see to this is for a scum buddying the IC. And again, the only reads you've given are in result of this issue. Namely, Mutely, Sakura and Jason (202) for not agreeing that jsmith's way of lynching is ideal.

So let me ask you this:

Do you agree with jsmith's way of voting?

And given all of the above, what is it specifically that you think you're doing that's in any way helpful?

[elleheathen]

I'm creating them.

Uh my reasons on Mutley, and Jason, is that they want the IC dead. They don't care. Mutley wanted to PL him (AND DONT YOU FUCKING CIRCLE ME MUTLEY.) and Jason said doc shouldn't be on him.

One, proved my point @ creating them and two:

...

[elleheathen]

Uh my reasons on Mutley, and Jason, is that they want the IC dead. They don't care. Mutley wanted to PL him (AND DONT YOU FUCKING CIRCLE ME MUTLEY.) and Jason said doc shouldn't be on him.

One, proved my point @ creating them and two:

...

Uh you created that one. I've already said all that shit and you said I didn't have reasons.

Missing the point, yet again - or being deliberately obtuse so as not to answer the actual question. I've made it pretty clear but let me break it down simpler for you.

This is me saying I don't think you're doing anything helpful:

With that said, I understand that a town is less likely to care if they die than a scum might be but that should be because we have done all we can to try and convince town that we're town and provided them with all the information that we can from that point - but I don't feel like you're actually doing that.

This is your reply, equally unhelpful - not to mention, incorrect:

I have attempted to help. You people don't give a shit.

Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, especially in light of the 'blue blood' issue and the 'clear', I go back and reread the thread and ISO you to see what it is that you've provided that's so helpful to us. But alas, all I can find is what I've already stated:

Besides arguing the Innocent Child issue to the grave

He says he has but reading his ISO, I don't see much of anything besides statements saying that he's town in the midst of a RWARANGRYCAPSPARTYRWAR.

So I give the reasons why these two things are

not

particularly helpful, to which you come back with:

Uh my reasons on Mutley, and Jason, is that they want the IC dead. They don't care. Mutley wanted to PL him (AND DONT YOU FUCKING CIRCLE ME MUTLEY.) and Jason said doc shouldn't be on him.

All of that was me asking what you've done BESIDES the ones I stated (and expressed exactly why I didn't think they were helpful at all) and you come back (ie. circling) to the same damn thing.

Which, in itself, proves my point. What have you done that's helpful? Nothing.

Done with this. Now to find your scumbuddy.

[elleheathen]

Bahaha, niiiice.

(elle strikes me as a potential candidate).

Meh. I stand by my vote.
If you're being ridiculously scummy, I'm going to think that you're ridiculously scummy.

Sakura, you're assuming Saki didn't change their mind after reading some more, or didn't see any other viable candidates at the time and felt like following consensus, or just wanted to end the day, or was just lazy, or had some other reason for doing what they did. Regardless of their reason, I don't think it outweighs the townieness from awestfie's slip, so I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Also, mafia trying to avoid suspicion is less likely to just hammer so hypocritically in the manner you're describing, unless you really think Saki made a poor move as mafia.

Actually,

you're

assuming that this supposed 'townieness from awestfie's slip' couldn't have just as easily come from an unrecruited mafia as it might have from town. Smaller odds, sure - still a possibility.

Do you really think I have the attention span to read it

i haven't yet but I'll catch up later

Atm I'm focusing on the now

You're not missing much.
To recap:

jsmith votes for experienced players rather than information/scumminess.
skip ahead 5 pages of the RWARCAPSPARTY that this should not be followed as an example.
bubba makes himself out to be the scummiest person ever and says 'IM TOWN' as his defending argument for the next 10 pages.
mutley, jason and i are the main bubba opposition. bubba gets lynched and we own the night.

So what do you think of 'the now'?

Also. Most of you are hard as hell to get reads on. JSYK. lol

I don't know how you went from "Ignore bubba" to "ok he's scum LET'S HAMMER"

I agree that

alone

it looks a little odd - but looking back at it, it looks more like:

Saki replaces.
"HAI! Prepare for the love of fluff!"

"Hey Saki, we're stalled. Help us out."

"OKAY!"

It doesn't look to me like she's worried about being seen as scum there. But you guys seem to all have some history. Is this Saki normal?

[elleheathen]

I am the roleblocker, and I blocked fuzzybutternut last night.

So either TGO blocks fuzzy and stops a scum kill

or

scum hit their traitor - and that's if they didn't recruit the traitor.

ISO'ing fuzzy, his posts don't really look all that scummy but neither do they look town. A high activity but it's 60 some posts that don't really say much of anything. This game seems to be high on fluffloveee but I can't tell if that's friendly/normal or scumtell - especially since it's everyone.

The only thing that strikes me as really odd about fuzzy's posts are that there are a shitton of "Olook, bubba is flailing." comments but no actual line of questioning directed to him - which, in itself, has scum move written all over it.

I don't think we're going to know unless we see a fuzzy flip. And if he flips scum, we have two conf towns in TGO and jsmith. I like this option, since I can't read any of you guys for shit. lol

VOTE: fuzzy

[elleheathen]

*shrug* Still, not scum.

That's about as beneficial as bubba's whole 'OMG IM TOWN SO TOWN IT HURTS TO BE TOWN' shpeel.

o0o but if the reverse is true...

[elleheathen]

I have a policy about L-1 votes this early in the day, so I'm not going to vote just yet, but it's there in spirit

'It's five o'clock somewhere'?

[elleheathen]

yeah, but we got 2 PRs by default and that's what we've seen.

readbetweenthesoftclaimlines

[elleheathen]

So many

ifs

...

[elleheathen]

Nice! New IC

and

with that flip, TGO is conftown.

Maestro, once you've caught up, what are your thoughts so far?

Awstie is probably town, though I think I'd be able to figure that out later if need be.

VOTE: Qwerty
Sakura think about the possible reasons to why I would doubt an RB claim and then, vote Qwerty.
or, TGO. I wouldn't mind that, but I doubt Fuzzy is scum

Can you stop softclaiming and just say whether or not you are a PR?

Hmmm...
no

My issue with this is that if SoM was a townie that legitimately thought there were only two PR's (herself and the IC), why out yourself as a PR as early as page two without any reason, whether it's a soft claim or not. It directly conflicts with her entire reasoning on TGO not being our roleblocker because if she thought there was only two, I don't think she'd have outed herself as a PR that early knowing there was no one to protect her. Initially, I didn't think anything of it until she said that - which meant she wasn't outing herself to be protected by our roleblocker or to save herself from a vig kill. There's no town reason to do it. SoM continues to drop hints that she's a PR throughout the game but is vague about which one she might be which I find super scummy - as if she's leaving it open for which one she plans to try and claim with the intent of using the 'crumbs' as her fallback.

The attempt at moving the wagon off of fuzzy onto first TGO and then when that didn't work onto qwerty was the kicker for me, especially because of the weak reasoning; TGO because she didn't believe there was a roleblocker and qwerty because he put fuzzy at L:1? So SoM, you can paint this is scummy all you want but:

VOTE: SoM

This is L:1!

[elleheathen]

unvote *OR* claim Scum

Neither.

That's a pretty solid read for me so it's not moving. I'd have been just fine with either a claim from SoM or even a self-hammer - especially given this games propensity for stalling out.

[elleheathen]

Catching up on what I missed - will post shortly!

[elleheathen]

Well, that didn't really work as I had hoped.

I knew by her softclaims that SoM was either going to try to claim tracker or cop. I figured by putting her on the spot, she'd have a 50/50 shot of choosing right. Either she really is the tracker or she just fakeclaimed the right one -

because I'm the goon cop

. It's another reason (combined with those in 589) why I find her early softclaim without any pressure or reason so odd - because I had the exact opposite approach with a similar role.

@SoM - I know I didn't ask any questions in it but I'd like to hear what you think on my post 589 - your reasoning, maybe? As well as your night actions.
I think there's only one thing that can be said that's going to change my thoughts on her being scum but I don't want to hand it to her on a platter so I'm waiting for the above answers - and why my vote is staying where it is. That, and because I really just don't have anything else to go on - which is essentially why my night actions were as follows.

Night 1: Mutley
Night 2: Jason

With the three of us being the biggest opposition on bubba's flip, I figured one of them had to be scum. Mutley was first because I couldn't read him for crap and after meta'ing him, I don't think in

any

game I'd ever be able to tell what alignment he is. Jason, I figured I could wait a night on if I survived because of the two, I felt like I might get some kind of read or slip or information from him as opposed to Mutley - and both to no avail because they both came back as not goons.

Which brings me to:

IF all of the claims are legit, it means the mafia took 3 powers, which gives us 5. If that's the case, one of those powers

has

to be recruiting the traitor because fuzzy flipped just a regular goon. I think it's still plausible even if SoM's claim is fake (which would give us 2/4 ratio) but still a lot of

ifs

that I don't like.
Still, that could put awestfie's (now Saki) 'noobslip' back on the table as possible town - since the only way that it couldn't have been a noobslip was if it was either completely fabricated or if he was the mafia traitor.

Speaking of noobslips, there was another that again, if it wasn't completely fabricated makes me think 'town'. This:

Doesn't scum know the traitor?

I think TGO's claim is legit - because I have a hard time believing that as early as day 2, he would mastermind some huge plot by

risking

no killing on night one, only to

risk

an RB claim and then on top of that

risk

killing off one of his own scums just to get towncred. If we were closer to endgame, maybe, but that just seems like a lot of unneccesary risks so early.

Plus, qwerty's death as our bodyguard makes me think that he was guarding TGO due to the RB claim and died protecting him. But then, I also think that the joat role is the most likely one the mafia would pick, and if that were the case, that would be the situation I'd use it in to kill TGO if I were scum.

Unless

the mafia role cop was the other role they chose and they knew after the first night what he was and killed qwerty directly to prevent him from guarding so they could use the strongman ability the following night on TGO?

Fuck, idk.

The short of this is that:

Town: Maestro (obv), Mutley, Jason, TGO
Leaning Town: Saki, notscience (and very lightly, at that - and only because of those possible 'slips'.)
Null: Sakura Hana
Scum: SoM

[elleheathen]

It's possible for the Goon Cop to investigate everyone and never get a positive.

waitwut?
Are you saying that if the scums took PR's, thereby taking themselves from roles of mafia goons to say mafia joat or w/e, that my results on them as not goons is useless because they could be mafia but they're just not regular goons?

@mod: clarification?

Damntheman. If this is true, I'm going to go cry in my corner in the road to rome - and never leave it. The first time I actually feel like I can put people as for sure town and...

[elleheathen]

I was so excited to have a PR... Ty for explaining, though.

[elleheathen]

Happy Bday, Jason! /confetti
Also, I feel like I missed something. Sorry to see you go, Sakura. <3

Back on topic:

Sakura is another not goon.

...he's a Tracker, Jason

you claimed VT

VT's don't target people

go die or flail more

waitwutimiss?

Also i am VT.

Damn

I tracked you N1, Sakura N2

You went nowhere, I didn't get a result from Sakura

I claimed, then asked for a mass claim hoping that you were mafia and that you would claim a PR

With that said, I'm still willing to lynch the birthday boy - just not on misrep. Finding out about my goon results put him and Mutley back up on the scumlist because of the feel I had on them after D1. I'm leaning more toward Jason because, of the people still alive, him and Saki were the only ones not on the scumfuzzy wagon. No, it's really not much to go on but nobody's posting much of anything besides naked votes so

VOTE: Jason

This is L-1!

[elleheathen]

elle where is everyone standing for you?

My last reads still apply with some edits due to my misunderstanding of my results.

So that'd be:

Town: Maestro (obv)
Leaning Town: Saki, notscience (and very lightly, at that - and only because of those possible 'slips'.)
Null: Sakura Hana
Leaning Scum: Mutley, Jason

[elleheathen]

Awestfie's early newbslip to me meant that he (therefore, you) were either the traitor or town - and with 5 PR's and one goon flipped, it means the mafia definitely did choose to recruit. So as long as that slip wasn't completely fabricated, it makes you town.

Given that the slip didn't come from you, I had to weigh out how your posts felt to get a read on how likely it might be to have been fabricated. I've had a rough time reading people this whole game so even though you had stated earlier that you doubted anyone could read you right on the first try after I posted my take on your bubba hammer, the feeling I get from all of your posts seems very light-hearted and 'IDGAF'. Even with the fluff, the lurking and the lack of content, I still don't get a scum vibe from you at all.

Someone commented earlier that this is you regardless of alignment so I was hesitant to believe you were definite town and another reason I had you as leaning but the fact that you just asked me about my read on you, though - makes me move you from leaning town to town even more.

[elleheathen]

One:

Can someone go back and find where he actually said he tracked me, BECAUSE YOU'LL FIND YOUR WRONG YOU FUCKING DIPSHITS.

Also i am VT.

Everyone that hasn't already, claim in your next post, we've already had (including the obvious) 5 PR's come to light, so an extra claim means someone in this group has to be lying.

Damn

I tracked you N1, Sakura N2

You went nowhere, I didn't get a result from Sakura

I claimed, then asked for a mass claim hoping that you were mafia and that you would claim a PR

And two:

With that said, I'm still willing to lynch the birthday boy - just not on misrep. Finding out about my goon results put him and Mutley back up on the scumlist because of the feel I had on them after D1. I'm leaning more toward Jason because, of the people still alive, him and Saki were the only ones not on the scumfuzzy wagon. No, it's really not much to go on but nobody's posting much of anything besides naked votes so

VOTE: Jason

This is L-1!

HAVE HALF A FUCKING BRAIN PLEASE.

I'm not a goon, and got tracked no where, there is like no chance i am scum.

Correct. You are not a goon. Correct. You got tracked and went nowhere on N1. No chance that you are scum? Incorrect.

The above leaves the possibility of bulletproof, which was one of your own 'optimal picks' in post 647. That's not

no chance

.

[elleheathen]

Fuxzy did the kill due to the roleblock on him so means you could be the goon or traitor

Elle - why you so sure there is no traitor?

He's not a goon because I got a not goon result on him. He's not a traitor for the same reason awestfie's slip is relevant:

and with 5 PR's and one goon flipped, it means the mafia definitely did choose to recruit.

If I am scum and pick powers I dont recruit the goon why? Cos he is a bullet proof guy.

Setup

[*]The mafia traitor is ineligible for any role modifications

unless

the mafia team recruits their traitor as a third goon, at which point the new goon may receive role modifications.[/*]

[elleheathen]

+ I'm also known as NSin
does that change your take on me

Hahaha, nowai.
And no, it doesn't. In that game, you were taking a slot at L:1 that I already pegged as scum - if you're suggesting this is your playstyle regardless of alignment, it makes sense - though all it did in that game was to help the hammerer. Here, different story.

[elleheathen]

Setup

1. No player will receive more than one role modification.

[elleheathen]

If fuzzy was the traitor, I'd have thought he'd have flipped

traitor

.
He did not. He flipped goon.

Because he flipped goon and there are 5 PR's: The possibilities of the 3 powers that scum chose, have to include the recruiting.

They could not have chosen simply daytalk and two PR's. If they had, fuzzy would have had a PR and would not have flipped goon.

The possibilities for what they chose are:

Recruit, daytalk, PR
Recruit, PR, PR

[elleheathen]

If you think I'm lying about my role then yes, it puts every option for what scum might have chosen back on the table.

[elleheathen]

I'm not goon, and confirmed going no where, meaning i'd HAVE to be a mafia PR.

Therefore the only things i can be are the following;
Change a goon to bulletproof

Change a goon to jack-of-all-trades (1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman)
Change a goon to role cop

Were i a role cop i'd be visiting, were i the JoAT i would have been killing, and i would have killed on N1 so it's stupid to even assume there is a scum JoAT.

So now your assuming i'm a bulletproof,

Way to repeat everything I said in 715:

Correct. You are not a goon. Correct. You got tracked and went nowhere on N1. No chance that you are scum? Incorrect.

The above leaves the possibility of bulletproof, which was one of your own 'optimal picks' in post 647. That's not

no chance

.

But yes, you were saying there was no chance of you being scum. I show how you could be scum and how a

chance

is not

no chance

like you're trying to make us believe.

So now your assuming i'm a bulletproof, so your also assuming i am worried that a fucking Vig will actually shoot me, why the fuck would that be the case?

Hello, misrep. You're the one that said that bulletproof would have been one of your optimal picks. Right here:

(My) Optimal picks:
Change a goon to bulletproof

Bulletproof, makes Vig worthless against 1/3 of the scum team.

It's not like you get to pick what PR's we get - it's random. So you saying that bulletproof is one of your optimal picks would suggest that you'd pick it in case we got a vig - YOUR words, not mine.

Now we still have 5 PR's in play, so assuming this, you also assume that;
a) i've chosen to go against what i clearly labeled best play in the game (because it's not logical to assume a goon given how i publicly advertised i would play this.)

Where did you publicly advertise you'd have chosen goon - when in your own 'optimal picks' there is NO goon in the setup YOU said you would have picked.

b) That the team choose Traitor recruit AND day talk, along with a bulletproof.

And

again

, you're assuming that I'm assuming that when I've already said what I thought the possibilities could be:

The possibilities for what they chose are:

Recruit, daytalk, PR
Recruit, PR, PR

So how about you stop trying to misrep what I'm saying.
If I was tentative on whether or not you were scum before, I'm not now. So thanks.

[elleheathen]

Not science is another not goon - though I'm willing to bet that's the only result I'm going to get since they killed maestro and not me.

Still think saki is town - the rest of you idk
Going to take another look tomorrow, jet lagged ATM

@mod: V/la until the 10th - (more la, ill still be posting as much as I can from my phone, shoulder be everyday but just a haul up

[elleheathen]

Meh, not that they've helped so far but still sticking with my reads.

Saki is still town.
ns moves up from leaning to null even with that 'town slip' because that naked hammer is sketchy as hell.
Sakura, now Lucky, is still null.

Which brings me to:

VOTE: mutley

Also: yay replacement! <3 Thoughts so far, Lucky?

[elleheathen]

Why is voting my scumread the 'stupidest thing I could possibly do'? If that read is very unlikely to change, what's the difference between that and saying that I'm willing to hammer? I should just sit back and let scum make the game defining moves instead of voting with my own reads because that's the standard?

And if it's the stupidest thing I could do - why are you doing the same thing only 20 minutes later?

[elleheathen]

Meh, not that they've helped so far but still sticking with my reads.

Saki is still town.
ns moves up from leaning to null even with that 'town slip' because that naked hammer is sketchy as hell.
Sakura, now Lucky, is still null.

Which brings me to:

VOTE: mutley

Also: yay replacement! <3 Thoughts so far, Lucky?

Considering we are in LyLo with two scum, you wanna venture a guess at the second scum assuming you are right about mutley?

It's between you and ns - both sitting at null because i have saki as town - so i was hoping a mutley flip would give some more clarity to that. Your defense of him makes me think it's you but then I think that's too obvious so idk.

[elleheathen]

Because you are voting me based on PoE onll it seemed from your post. You do realise this is lylo my flip will make you lose won't help you find others out.

We only lose if you actually flip town

I'm doing it for actual reasons look at sakis post. It's basically an admission of guilt

Waitwut? Where does he admit to being scum?

[elleheathen]

Having quote difficulties atm but it's #711

[elleheathen]

Okay... do you have 'hard proof' to the contrary?

[elleheathen]

Thoughts, ns?

[elleheathen]

But what are

yours

? You think Saki is scum?
Any opinion on the two votes out there?

[elleheathen]

The 'very easy fake claim' would have been vt. Why would I claim a role as scum that would actually limit the possibilities I would have - and not only that, if it were actually a fake claim, I'd have come in to today claiming I had a goon result on someone, opposed to clearing someone else as a not goon.

[elleheathen]

What is evidence of Saki scum?
Mut said he claimed scum and never replied when I asked where? Did I miss something?

[elleheathen]

Saki hasn't questioned much of anything all game - idk, I read that post as him saying that you and I were scum, not you and him.

[elleheathen]

What are you talking about? I'm the one that said ages ago that there was no way scum could have a traitor. You're the one that fought me on it.

[elleheathen]

Yeah, you sure got me. Here let me vote my scumbuddy, too.

VOTE: Saki

[elleheathen]

Omg /breath

[elleheathen]

Yeah, I was worried about that - and kept an extra tab on my phone open with a saki vote saved in it just in case.

[elleheathen]

I can tell?

[elleheathen]

I second that yes, lol

[elleheathen]

waitwut? Mara was in this?

[elleheathen]

Ooh right. No, I read it but then SoM was like 'but I'm def not Mara'. Gotcha, lol

[elleheathen]

Ahaha

[elleheathen]

Hahah, I need to start taking notes on all you guys.

[elleheathen]

We chose role cop and day talk.

[elleheathen]

I think the only reason we chose what we did was to try something different - because fuzzy had mentioned that this was a new setup that could use some testing

[elleheathen]

Does Tammy release the qt? Lolol /hide

[elleheathen]

Srs comliment is srs. <3

Had a blast with this game. thanks all! And in case you all wanna see all the flailing:


Scum QT - http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/R2q28fHCE3HxZ

[elleheathen]

Ahaha <333