Open 522: Fire & Ice Mafia - The Siege of Harmonia - Over

[StupendousMan]

VOTE: Klick

[StupendousMan]

Fun fact: I've never been town in a completed game of this setup. I think I've been in this setup... either three or four times.

Why did this thought pop into your head? Did you notice it because you've drawn scum again?

[StupendousMan]

@Smoker- Why did you switch your vote so quickly? Were you afraid of receiving pressure for putting Klick at L-3?

[StupendousMan]

Klick's first comment isn't alignment indicative. The comment could be made as either alignment, so he's null. Baldeagle asking newbie questions also isn't alignment indicative since he would ask as either alignment.

Now what stands out most to me is that Smoker has called

3 people

town from the start without any real basis and the initial vote/unvote/vote from him in RVS is definitely strange.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Smoker

[StupendousMan]

And StupendousMan, you should read the newbie game I'm currently in. I don't fuck around dude.

Stop referencing ongoing games. I don't care how you play elsewhere. I'm going to look at your play here.

To be honest I'd say he's very townie.

Not really. It could be done as either alignment.

When I first voted for Klick, that was just RVS, but when he/she tried to mention that she never played townie before and her meta in this particular setup, that made me suspicious because why was that really worth mentioning?

What do you guys think of this?

Like I said, it's not alignment indicative so it's null.

Doesn't really make sense to breadcrumb on page 1 though. It makes more sense when you do it later in the game.

He didn't breadcrumb...

Scum-read on fuzzybutternut by the way.

Elaborate.

Mmm, I'm not so certain he's actually scum yet so I'll leave what I do have on him a while. Just applying some pressure :3

This is suspicious. Also, you shouldn't tell him you're trying to apply pressure if that is your intent.

[StupendousMan]

Stupendous, how about no? And I'm better at mafia than you, just so you know.

Your ego is too large for your own good and you have nothing to back it up. From what I've seen of your hyperactive fluff posting, what you just said isn't true. If it were it wouldn't matter since the goal of the game is to find mafia, not boast about your skill. Are you going to explain yourself or are you going to sling insults around? Because the latter would actually make you a bad player (which is what you're doing btw).

"not alignment indicative" - LOLpendous

Fluff. This post is useless.

Yeah and Klick is even more townie again for his tunnel. Townies tunnel, it's called confirmation bias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Actually, I've seen tunneling happen more from scum than town, so this point is invalid.

[StupendousMan]

Also, Smoker, if you believe Fuzzy and Bert to be scummy, why are you not voting either of them? Why have you instead kept your RVS vote?

[StupendousMan]

StupendousMan tells me I have a large ego... And yeah you contradict all those references and footnotes on that wiki page with your subjective experience you fucking idiot.

Enough with the ad hominem. Tunneling can happen from either town or scum, so, as I said before, your point is invalid. Calling me a "fucking idiot" (which is very immature) does not refute the point I made. Now explain your scumread on Fuzzy.

[StupendousMan]

Reasoning, fuzzy?

You're the child trying to demand things of me just because I'm smarter than you and you'd like to control that.

Notice how Smoker asks Fuzzy for reasoning and yet refuses to give me reasoning for his scum read on Fuzzy. Smoker, this is a game of logic and reasoning, and if you don't have reasoning for your read on Fuzzy then your read is most likely fake, which means you are scum. I'm guessing you will answer this with "yo stupendous is so dumb and im so smart hahaha, right guys?"

I'm perfectly fine with a Smoker lynch today.

[StupendousMan]

And mafia actually don't tunnel generally; they stay much more fluid than townies, just looking to work whatever angle.

This is irrelevant since nobody has actually tunneled in this game.

[StupendousMan]

Really? Because on the last page I was scum.

@Mod: Can you force-replace Smoker, please.

Absolute child. You realize you're just making this game rather impossible to read with your grudge-voting, right?

Actually, you're making the game impossible to read by posting 10 times in a row. If you have a point to make, please try to form it into one coherent post.

In regards to tunneling, Klick did not in any way tunnel. He simply has Baldeagle as a scumread. I did not tunnel since I'm considering other options, but you are the option I would prefer at the moment.

Also, for the love of god, please slow down.

[StupendousMan]

Pasch was definitely pushing the RVS away from him hardcore and is probably PR/scum though.

How is getting the game out of RVS scummy?

[StupendousMan]

UNVOTE:
Smoker is town. I'll post more tomorrow morning. I'll probably vote for Baldeagle.

[StupendousMan]

Smoker has just lied, lied, and lied some more. He only went after me when I caught on to him. He's caught scum and he's doubling down on attacking me for his defense.

I actually had a town read on Pasch until he made this post. I wouldn't say that Smoker has lied, it's just that his opinions are constantly changing which makes him town. His thought process has basically been laid out in front of everyone, and I think it's much more town than scum. The wording here from Pasch seems off, but I like the rest of what he's said. So he's leaning scum.

UNVOTE:
Smoker is town. I'll post more tomorrow morning. I'll probably vote for Baldeagle.

Sounds like you are unvoting to get town cred. That's scummy.

No. The unvote is because Smoker is town, and my inability to notice this was due to our earlier conflict. Look at what I wrote above this for my reasoning as to why Smoker is town. Also, I'd rather not have someone quicklynched before I can get reads on more people. What's scummy is your sheeping of Smoker. You immediately changed your read because of what Smoker said, showing that you have little conviction in your reads. I don't think you have genuine reads of your own. You know who has trouble coming up with reads? Scum.

VOTE: Baldeagle

Well, I reread and...I'm pretty sure I don't have enough concentration to notice anything other than Smoker being a little wierd, but brings up facts about how lies and such work.

But you can't base everything off just facts.

C'mon, you have to have

some

reads. Also, please explain that last sentence.

It makes sense that Smoker is from EM.
*sigh*
UNVOTE:
That explains so much.

I'll lay my vote down here until I hear more from the slot.
VOTE: Stubbs

Fuzzy, I'm loving how town you are.

[StupendousMan]

Yes, your reads are there, but your reasoning is not. All I see is everyone else's reasoning influencing you. And, no, I did not unvote because of your post.

I'm bored, so I'll post my reads. Smoker, can you post reads on everyone? Doesn't have to include reasons.

Town:
1baldeagle1
Klick
Smoker
Laz

Leaning Town:
ASP
Stupendous

Null:
Cin
TGO
Stubbs
thenewearth

Leaning scum:
Pas
Bert

What I'm thinking is that Pas and Bert are both mafia but on opposite sides. Currently, my vote is on Pas.

Why is Laz town? Why did you change your town read on ASP? Why are Pasch and Bert scum?

[StupendousMan]

TGO, what is your read on Pasch? And also a few other reads from you would be nice. Don't tell me you don't have any reads.

[StupendousMan]

Smoker, do you still believe Baldeagle is town? If so, why?

[StupendousMan]

I don't believe Pasch has soft-claimed at all. Smoker, if you are town you can't just expect everyone to think that. You need to prove that you are town through your posts and good reasoning.

[StupendousMan]

@Badleagle- Do Bert's more recent posts give you town vibes at all?

[StupendousMan]

You keep asking other people's opinions? Please state why you are doing this and why you are devoting posts to asking one-liners about what other people think of certain people, rather than providing some things of your own about said players

I'm trying to get reads. You want to know what I think, Bert? Here it is:

thenewearth- Hasn't said much, but those last few posts seem town.
1baldeagle1- Scum. Sheeping Smoker's weak reads and easily influenced by other players. He had a town read on Pasch and switched immediately when Smoker told him to. Needs to be lynched.
A Simple Plan- Also needs to post more. But I like the one lengthy post he's made very much.
StubbsKVM- Not much to go off of. Null.
Cin0G- Made one intro post that was slightly scummy.
Klick- I don't understand everyone's town read on Klick. I do like some of his reads, though. Leaning town.
Smoker- This one is difficult. Initially, he appeared outrageously scummy. But his thought process, despite his flip-flopping, is town. I can see genuine paranoia from him, which I assume is the reason for much of his second-guessing himself.
Paschendale- Not as scummy as people are trying to make him seem. He's said a few scummy things, but many more things that were town. Although, he is difficult to read for me, so he is currently more null.
TheGreatOne- His inability to develop reads bothers me. Leaning scum. Also, he still needs to answer my question about how he feels about Pasch.
Lazurial- Town vibes from Laz. But I would still like to see more from him.
fuzzybutternut- Very town imo. I want to see his thoughts on more players as he has mostly only commented on Smoker.
Bert- I like his recent posts much more. Probably town.
StupendousMan

[StupendousMan]

@TNE- I understand your frustration. But look at my reasoning above for why I believe Smoker to be town and tell me what you think. And who else do you think is scum?

[StupendousMan]

Yep, I see a huge difference. You are more serious in that game and in here you are just sorta sitting back and staying out of the spotlight.

There's no way a meta can change that fast. Also, when you said "Oh I should be serious now.", I think it was more of "Oh wait, I need to look like town."

It's amazing what your own meta can do to you.

VOTE: TNE

I like this post. Townpoints for you.
UNVOTE:

Elaborate what TNE's town play is like, Bert.

TNE is town, no doubt in my mind about that.

I still haven't decided on

Varsoon

Smoker though.

So after only a few posts you have

no doubt

that TNE is town? Are you trying to buddy up to a townie or save your scum partner? Either way, you're scum. Also, Smoker has posted more than enough for you to read him by now.

VOTE: Stubbs

[StupendousMan]

Um, TNE isn't in Mini 1481.

Also, I don't like TNE's post. He only bothers to read the first 5 pages. Imo, it just looks like opportunistic vote on the easy wagon.

I still want to read TNE's finished game, can someone link me to it?

TNE is town. Trust me.

Why?

VOTE: fuzzybutternut

TGO, every post you make is getting scummier and scummier. This vote feels very forced. You also avoided my question on what you think of Pasch.

[StupendousMan]

Sorry for the double post, but the more I think about it, the more I want TGO lynched. He's offered nothing good, and his last post was terribly bad. Stubbs can wait for now.

VOTE: TGO

[StupendousMan]

Stubbs needs more votes, so you guys should get busy with that. I will probably switch my vote back, but I want TGO to react and answer my question.

Sometimes, I only need 1 post to get a town read on someone.
Other times people may post 100 times, and I still don't know.

What's so hard to understand?

You didn't say you simply had a town read. You said there was no doubt in your mind about it. This is clearly an attempt to buddy.

[StupendousMan]

It's not about TNE's post. It's about your initial wording of saying you had no doubts. I think that's a scumslip. Only scum have no doubts. Why did you phrase it like that?

[StupendousMan]

Who are your scum reads? Why is your vote still on Bert? I believe that hasn't changed since RVS.

[StupendousMan]

VOTE: Stubbs

[StupendousMan]

Mac, can you answer the question I asked TGO before you replaced in? It was a question regarding your thoughts on Pasch. If you do what TGO did and tell me you don't have any reads I'm going to blow my head off.

@baldeagle- My problem with you is that you keep telling people to reference previous posts. But most of those posts contained other people's reasons.

fuzzy: I don't like stubbs at the moment but what if that statement is coming from town and he's just telling the truth?

There's always that chance a statement is town, but Stubbs has said two things that have most likely come from scum. The first was saying he had no doubt in his mind that TNE was scum after only a few posts, which looked like buddying. The second was his bad self-defense that Fuzzy's mentioned a few times. Considering that I already think your slot is scummy, Mac, your post makes me feel uncomfortable.

[StupendousMan]

EBWOP: After doing some meta research I've confirmed my suspicion of Stubbs. He's not engaging people as much as his past town games, and he's mostly defending himself without doing anything beneficial to the town. Not to mention he hasn't even moved his RVS vote. We've caught scum.

Let's lynch him.

[StupendousMan]

How is your own meta incorrect? I looked at all of your completed games and this doesn't resemble your town play. In those games there was more vote switching and more questioning, which have been severely lacking in this game. You only became active here once people started pressuring you, which is what scum do. I fail to see town motivation in any of your posts.

[StupendousMan]

Have you developed a read on Smoker?

[StupendousMan]

@Baldeagle- I think you did more in that post to defend your vote on TNE than justify your switch to Stubbs. I'm not opposed to you voting Stubbs, but you've been doing some seriously opportunistic wagon-hopping. I think Smoker is the only wagon you haven't been on, so if he's scum you're probably his partner.

Stubbs is at L-2.

[StupendousMan]

The only thing that Bert has done is linking me to your scum game.

And yet all of those posts are before you posted this earlier.

VOTE: baldeagle

MISREP! You completely took this out of context. In 296 TNE said Baldeagle was convinced by Bert. Baldeagle replied in 298 by saying that the only thing Bert did was link him to TNE's scum game. That was not in regards to Bert's alignment.

Proceed with the lynching of Stubbs. Immediately.

[StupendousMan]

I saw that post in his ISO, which looked weird.
That's why I always try to quote what I'm respondent to.

Hm. This would make more sense. But the question is whether you were scumhunting or looking for someone to make them look bad... I may need to reconsider a few things.

Yes, this was already made clear by baldeagle. Why do you feel the need to repeat that?

I typed it around the same time. It just took me a few minutes to submit.

[StupendousMan]

So you were looking specifically for something that would make Baldeagle look bad

[StupendousMan]

Pasch, that post was great. You just moved up a whole lot on my town list. And you also made me realize that I have been backing Stubbs into a corner. The constant attention on him is in no way beneficial to the town. Also, after thinking about it, I was starting to see Stubbs' posts as more null than scum. So currently I'm thinking that Fuzzy's push was a bit too strong for my liking.

We seem to agree on Baldeagle being scum. So I would appreciate it if you took your vote off Smoker and helped me out with this. I'll eventually write up a case because Baldeagle has many scummy posts.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Baldeagle

@People who aren't posting- Speak, damn it.

[StupendousMan]

I haven't brought up a case both because I've been really busy with school starting this week, and because I technically don't *have* a case as of now. I'm not sure you're the best lynch, even if you're the most likely to be scum.

I may consider joining the Stubbs wagon. I'll see this afternoon.

I don't like this post. You posted this so that if you join the Stubbs wagon you can say "Look at the post I made earlier", but it also gives you an excuse for not scumhunting and keeping your vote on Pasch. You've given your reads, but your actions are scummy. It doesn't help that early on people were calling you town with very little basis. I've got my eye on you.

[StupendousMan]

Alright, Fuzzy. You wanted a case on Baldeagle so here it is. I hope you'll consider switching your vote.

Spoiler: Baldeagle Case

I have a town read on Pas.

Declares his town read on Pasch. Nothing wrong with this by itself, but what happens after is very scummy.

Yeah, but still, a townie wants to move out of RVS by pointing out his suspicions, while I do think that push was a bit strange and odd, he's leaning towards town for me.

Reinforces and defends his town read on Pasch. Still nothing wrong.

Great job, you convinced me. Pas was giving me a town read when he was trying to push us out of RVS, but maybe he was trying to appease us?

VOTE: Paschendale

Votes for Pasch

. After strongly defending his town read. He votes because Smoker (who provided weak reasoning and is now lurking) told him to.

Yeah, there's probably scum on your wagon.

Pas for sure, and maybe TSP.

He calls ASP possible scum in this post, but he calls him town in the next one. Sounds like he doesn't have his fake reads planned out well enough.

This post makes me think that he's town [in regards to ASP]

He called ASP scum in the above quote... but he also called ASP town before he called him scum (see Post 166). Once again, his reads are not genuine.

Um, TNE isn't in Mini 1481.

Also, I don't like TNE's post. He only bothers to read the first 5 pages. Imo, it just looks like opportunistic vote on the easy wagon.

I still want to read TNE's finished game, can someone link me to it?

Yep, I see a huge difference. You are more serious in that game and in here you are just sorta sitting back and staying out of the spotlight.

There's no way a meta can change that fast. Also, when you said "Oh I should be serious now.", I think it was more of "Oh wait, I need to look like town."

It's amazing what your own meta can do to you.

VOTE: TNE

Stubbs, this is why I think TNE is scum. I told you to go reread.

Fuzzy has a pretty good case against you, that was an odd statement about reads.

Stubbs, what is your read on Pas?

VOTE: Stubbs

This is probably the worst one of all. You spend most of the post talking about how scummy TNE is, but you switch your vote to Stubbs. A town player should try to lynch their scumreads, not the easy wagon.

And that's why Baldeagle is likely scum. Also, his interactions with many players are notable, so he's probably the best lynch option.

[StupendousMan]

Cin0G, I don't think Smoker is going to be lynched today. There is too much dispute over his alignment. If Baldeagle is your top scumread you should vote him. At the very least we will get some good reactions. Not to speak for Bert or anything, but he has previously mentioned his suspicion of Baldeagle.

[StupendousMan]

Yes, Mac, please grace us with your presence again. And explain to me why you only voted Stubbs after I said I was suspicious of your slot. Especially since you didn't seem to think he was scum before that.

Hopefully Smoker is replaced so people have less trouble getting a read on him.

[StupendousMan]

What do you all think of ASP?

I just noticed ASP's ISO is more scummy than I thought. These are his only two posts:

So catching up, I've had a hard time developing any solid reads; Smoker is flip-flopping, changing votes, and unvoting so often it makes me uncomfortable, and he's giving me a scum read right now. The first paragraph of is 49 made me laugh, no offense, because to me, OMGUS solely means voting for someone who voted for you with no real reasoning other than that, and it isn't usually a town tell. He also made post 70, which just reads as scum trying to back out of an attempt at a fake scum read without anything to back it up. he could also stand to stop slinging insults.

VOTE: smoker

Laz's 26 is interesting, and I agree about Klick's statement about having not been town in a fire and ice game before being a couageous thing to point out, but it can be looked at either way. I'm getting a town read on Klick, and I think he's genuinely trying to scum hunt. Laz could be scum, but I'm not sure.

I'm also reading town on StupendousMan, and a newb-town feeling from 1be1. Null reads on TNE and Pasch, with mixed feelings about fuzzy.

I still agree that if the insult-flinging continues, Smoker should be force-replaced of Modkilled.

P-edit: actually, what Smoker is saying about Pasch in the second paragraph of 137 I sort-of understand, the whole concept of him trying to flaw your reads... I could see you two being of opposite factions, really. He can leave his Clinton stuff at home, and I know that when I really want to emphasize something I'll use extra letters like you're saying he did, but I like the point about him trying to flaw your logic by saying you haven't come to any conclusions

Looking back on it, this is very scummy. He hopped on the easy Smoker wagon, which I believe put Smoker at L-2. And then he commented on Laz, who hadn't said much, in a way that wasn't trying to figure out alignment (instead calling the post "interesting").

I'm starting to like what I see from Laz and am getting more of a town vibe from him as of late. Not that fond of Bert's play right now, but the read is null. TNE's play is also rather suspicious.

He got town vibes from Laz after Laz had barely posted anything new I could see a possible pair here. I need to go back and look at what Laz has said about ASP.

Also, Bert is extremely town in case any of you are wondering. Why? He is having a similar thought process to my own.

Oh, and now that ASP is a scumread in my mind, the fact that Baldeagle mentioned him about 3 times strengthens my scumread on Baldeagle.

[StupendousMan]

I approve of Bert's case on Laz, but I still think Stubbs and Pas are scum.

Oh, really? Because before you said that TNE was scum and that you were 99.9% sure. Nice try, scum.

[StupendousMan]

I'm 99.99% sure that TNE is scum and y'all need to join the TNE wagon.

He says he's 99.99% sure TNE is scum.

I approve of Bert's case on Laz, but I still think Stubbs and Pas are scum.

No mention of TNE being scum, and he implies that Laz isn't scum.

Laz and TNE vs Stubbs and Pas.

And now, all of a sudden, Laz is one of his scumreads.

You're done, Baldeagle. You messed up, and now you are going to be lynched.

And the fact that you're trying so hard to figure out teams is making me think you're on a team yourself.

[StupendousMan]

Stubbs, care to cast a vote?

[StupendousMan]

Oh, put Stubbs in the scum list. I forgot him.

You forgot one of your scumreads... fascinating. And it just so happens to be

THE PERSON YOU ARE CURRENTLY VOTING.

That proves that you don't actually think he's scum. You just wanted to go for the easy lynch. You basically just proved you aren't town. I would be genuinely surprised if you were. Also, I believe you forgot a few others in that list as well.

I rest my case. 2 more votes to lynch Baldeagle. Let's see it happen.

[StupendousMan]

Earlier you said ASP was town. What changed?

[StupendousMan]

Why do you have a townread on Klick?

[StupendousMan]

Give me one example of a Klick post with town motivation. If it's mostly gut, shouldn't your read be more like "leaning town"? It's worth noticing that Klick has also had you as a townread for most of the game, and he only declared you as a null read after you got to L-2 (most likely so that when you flip scum he won't look as bad, or if he feels the need to bus).

[StupendousMan]

@Baldeagle- I don't see all that much town motivation there. There is a little, but not as much as people have given him credit for.

This is inaccurate. Most of the game, baldeagle was near the bottom of my reads list, and only recently became a townread. His most recent posts have been bad, though.

I'm confused by your apparent scumread on me. For all of the comments about people townreading me for no real reason, there hasn't been much of a reason brought up to suspect me.

Also while I'm here, baldeagle, I'm a guy

My bad. You were about to go on my scum list, but now you're only null.

Hi, everyone. Didn't realize Klick was around.

Hi. What's your read on Baldeagle?

[StupendousMan]

Oh could you at least let me claim before lynching me? Thx.

Now is a good time to claim.

uh
based on a peep at his iso, it looks like you guys are one vote away from a mislynch
I'll see if my mind changes after I finish threadreading.

This is interesting. You're one of the people that Baldeagle flipflopped his read on... about 3 times. Have you seen my case? Thoughts?

[StupendousMan]

I am on page 5

I see. So you're probably looking at all of Smoker's spam. Well, when you're caught up if you could give a full reads list that would be great.

K, I'm VT.

It won't matter too much, since it's just a VT.

Yup, that's what anyone except the doctor would claim in this setup. This claim really doesn't do anything, but I want to hear Psyche's and Smoker's replacement's thoughts before you're lynched.

[StupendousMan]

Hm... That has a genuine feel to it, but logic is still telling me that Baldeagle is the right way to go.

[StupendousMan]

I'll be back later today to post my thoughts. Fuzzy's #460 looks slightly scummy. More on that later.

[StupendousMan]

Logic loses games.

How? Gut hasn't worked out so well for me in the past

@Antihero- Welcome. Reads list whenever you're caught up, please. Your predecessor was a troll.

Guys, if Bald wasn't scum, he'd be hammered by now. I'm sure his buddy is on the wagon.

It's possible that all 4 scum are already on his wagon. Unlikely, but possible. Or maybe the mafia are inactive. Your pushes (which have been on most of the major BWs) are a bit too strong for my liking. We do still have a lot of time to figure this out. Are you in a rush?

@Baldeagle- Why are you leaning town on Fuzzy?

[StupendousMan]

I'm thinking Antihero is town. You made a good point about multi-ball. I suppose I'll go with my gut and let Baldeagle live for now.

Stubbs, you're at L-1 I believe. And I am considering a hammer. Would you like to claim?

[StupendousMan]

And Pasch, before you ask, yes I have changed my mind again on Stubbs. I am perfectly fine with his lynch. He's done nothing to make me think he's town.

[StupendousMan]

The question is what exactly has he done to look like scum? I still think Baldeagle is a MUCH better choice.

As weak as this may sound, my gut is telling me Stubbs is a better lynch than Baldeagle. You know how you mentioned Stubbs was being cornered? Well, it's similar with Baldeagle. And his inconsistent play has a good chance of coming from newbtown mistakes. The equal chance of Baldeagle's posting coming from newbtown or newbscum has made him more of a null read to me.

Possibly one of the reasons it's so hard to find something that makes Stubbs look scummy is that he has rarely posted and usually it is only to defend himself. But that in itself is scummy. My only other (and weaker) scumread is Klick, who probably won't be lynched today. So I will reread the thread before making any rash decisions, but I have a feeling Stubbs would not be a mislynch. Forgive me if I'm being illogical. I need to reread some areas of the thread.

I was starting to lean scum on Fuzzy, but the fact that he dismantled the Baldeagle wagon and went after Stubbs seems like a town thing to do. Unless Baldeagle is his buddy, but there is little reason to assume that.

VOTE: Stubbs

L-2, I believe.

Something about this just doesn't seem right to me. You haven't previously expressed much belief that Stubbs was town. Correct me if I'm wrong , but I think you only made a post that said, "hey maybe I'll vote for Stubbs later." Who are your other scumreads right now?

@Mac- What are your thoughts on all of this? That lingering vote on Stubbs is very scummy of you.

[StupendousMan]

@Pasch- Fuzzy made a post about wanting to get scum lynched and then switched to Stubbs, which felt strange to me. But I think dismantling the wagon to start a new one is a town move.

Intent to hammer.

Stubbs has 21 hours to claim.

[StupendousMan]

Also, just a heads up that my activity might drop because school is starting now.

[StupendousMan]

Mac, your reasoning behind your vote is weak. If I had truly wanted to end the day phase early I would've hammered already. And if you really think I'm the most deserving player of your vote it makes me think that you're not doing real scumhunting. Who are your other scumreads?

After thinking about it, I would be more comfortable with a Fuzzy or Mac lynch than Stubbs. I'm just not sure enough with him. Fuzzy has had many opportunistic and scummy looking posts which I might wrap up in a case tonight. TGO/Mac hasn't provided reads or done anything pro-town, but I suppose that's more null.

I know many of you are townreading Fuzzy, but hopefully after I make my case you'll change your minds.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fuzzy

Pedit- Pasch, what do you think of Fuzzy?

[StupendousMan]

I see squirming and being upset over being pressured. And I see a lot of nibbling over the last three pages but no biting. There's nothing resembling a solid case from anyone in this new round of posts. You guys went from intent to hammer to circling like scavengers. Nothing in the last few pages looks like it's going to lead to a good lynch. It looks like weak arguments gobbling up pressured responses for confirmation. Even those arguing against the Stubbs lynch or offering alternates are weak, half formed, and unsubstantiated. Nobody is pushing hard enough for their targets to really see them through. There's duplicity and bullshit. I don't like it.

Please refer to my case on stubbs and then properly lynch the shit out of him.

Last I checked, your case mostly consisted of you mentioning Stubbs' use of AHIH. After looking back on his statement it really wasn't that scummy. It was more of general statement that town or scum could've made. Who are your other scumreads right now?

[StupendousMan]

And why didn't you react to my vote on you?

[StupendousMan]

Unvote: BaldEagle

Vote: Stubbs

The sporadic 'flailing' of his defense makes me want to lynch him.

I really don't see that much flailing. He's been playing similar the whole game. Are you mentioning this because you noticed it or because Fuzzy did? You conveniently went from the dead Baldeagle wagon to try bring life back into the dying Stubbs wagon, which put him at L-2. I don't like your thought process. It doesn't seem town.

@Psyche- Are you done catching up? Current reads?

Where did TNE go? Don't be afraid to talk to us, TNE!

[StupendousMan]

Stup, is Laz scum for you?

All/most of his votes just seems opportunistic.

I still think we should just get fuzzy. The "I don't care about your vote on me" just seems like he's just trying to avoid the pressure and not scumslip.

Maybe. Unsure at this point. Some posts are scummy, but others are town. He's more null. But I do like his Psyche vote.

I just realized that Stubbs only posted after his own wagon was dismantled. Interesting... and by interesting I mean very scummy.

Unfortunately, I don't see a Fuzzy lynch happening today. Too many people are townreading him. And a Klick lynch won't happen either. I might actually switch back to Stubbs. I need to think about it. Mac is also a possibility.

@Cin0G- What are your thoughts?

[StupendousMan]

Alright, quick poll, is there anyone opposed to a mac lynch?

I'm fine with that. Mac's been lurking, has bad reasoning, and TGO was a scumread for me. In fact, I'll switch it now. Let's get this Mac wagon going!*

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mac

*More info on why he's scummy after I get back from school.

[StupendousMan]

Spoiler: TGO/Mac

Well, I reread and...I'm pretty sure I don't have enough concentration to notice anything other than Smoker being a little wierd, but brings up facts about how lies and such work.

But you can't base everything off just facts.

Sheeping means following. Any of you guys ever play over on EpicMafia? Pretty good site.

I played there for a while, until it just screws up now.

I guess this is my late walk-in post.

Hi.

Doesn't say anything useful and doesn't have any reads. The statement about facts is odd. Scummy post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgflscOmW8

LOL DIDN'T CLICK

Well, I reread and...I'm pretty sure I don't have enough concentration to notice anything other than Smoker being a little wierd, but brings up facts about how lies and such work.

But you can't base everything off just facts.

C'mon, you have to have

some

reads. Also, please explain that last sentence.

I was pretty tired and didn't see much.

He's using facts to explain people, but you can't just use that.

This post doesn't do anything, and I feel like he was making excuses.

I can't wait for winter so I can

get that freaking paper off that comes with sticky things

.

Fluff.

Vote: Paschendale

VOTE: Paschendale

Why did you both vote without explaining?

TGO tries to misrep them. They had already stated previous suspicion.

Um, TNE isn't in Mini 1481.

Also, I don't like TNE's post. He only bothers to read the first 5 pages. Imo, it just looks like opportunistic vote on the easy wagon.

I still want to read TNE's finished game, can someone link me to it?

TNE is town. Trust me.

Why?

VOTE: fuzzybutternut

THIS is

really

bad. It looks like he's just trying to get a vote out there to look town. Asking a question doesn't really explain a vote.

fuzzy: I don't like stubbs at the moment but what if that statement is coming from town and he's just telling the truth?

Seems to be having a lot of confusion over Stubbs...

i need to look more into pasch but im thinking town from a brief glance. ill look at him in depth after work.

VOTE: Stubbs

...but then votes anyway.

before i start rereading, i have two issues

one is stupendousman asking me for my thoughts and when I requested some time, you stated intent to hammer. why? it feels to me like i am being rushed to give thoughts when in fact we have alot of time remaining. can you explain why you felt the need to not give me time to catch up?

^ this has given me a scumread on stupendous. mainly because he is asking for thoughts and not following through with it ie he doesnt actually care about my answer, he just wants to look like he is doing something.

second issue was antihero's replace in and subsuquent reaction to smoker's posts. why the big drama about your slots posts? the only thing stopping me reading antihero as scummy is that there was no really pressure on him at the time of replacing in.

until further notice

vote: stupendous

Oh dear god. The intent to hammer was mostly for reaction. There was a large chance that I wasn't going to hammer, so stop freaking out about time. You've had time, and you only started posting again once people started voting you. There have been so many other scummy things in this game, yet you choose to focus on my intent to hammer as the

only

reason for your vote. At least put together a valid argument against me so I can refute your points.

because an amished tell is quite a common scumtell for replacements. regardless, i don't think you are scum at the moment.

Amished tell is a wiki tell and should be treated as such.

Also, I never said Smoker was scummy.

i don't care.

you made a big scene about his posts which is an amished tell.

He didn't make a scene. Smoker's posts were extremely annoying, so it's understandable.

This along with gut is the reason for my vote on Mac. Sadly, there isn't much to go off of, but the scummy posts outweigh the town posts, imo.

[StupendousMan]

No. I've called Fuzzy scum multiple times, but I don't see his lynch happening today.

[StupendousMan]

No worries, Mac. I just wanted to get more pressure on you, but now I'm thinking you're town. Honestly, the case against you was too weak to prove you as scum. Although, I don't see why you claimed at L-2.

Anyways, I think we've gotten a lot out of this day phase. And I think Stubbs will give us the most information. I would prefer a Fuzzy or Klick lynch, but I don't see that happening. Now, you might ask, "Why are you placing a vote on a wagon with two people you think are scum?" Multiball, that's why.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Stubbs

Stubbs continues to lurk away from pressure and I'm sure he'll be back after his wagon starts again. So let's do the town a favor and lynch him. At the very least we will receive a good deal of information.

[StupendousMan]

I would prefer a Fuzzy or Klick lynch,

Mind stating the reason I'm scummy again? Last time, there wasn't one.

Stupendous, your reads throughout the game have been very inconsistent and very easily swayed by others. I'm noticing a trend where you instantly agree with most long cases. Why is that?

If my reads were easily swayed by others I wouldn't think that Fuzzy is scum, and I wouldn't think that you're scum. I believe I've already stated reasons for why you're scummy (among them was putting Stubbs at L-2 earlier without expressing any previous suspicion except for saying "maybe I'll vote Stubbs, maybe I won't."). Why does it bother you so much? My vote isn't even on you.

Bert and Antihero almost seem to be moving as a unit. Interesting to note, but I currently don't think either are scum.

@Baldeagle- Many of your posts throughout the game have been mimicking mine. Can you explain this?

Hm.. I might be giving Baldeagle too much slack for being a newbie.

Psyche, you need to post. What do you think about Baldeagle mimicking my reads?

In case anyone was wondering about Baldeagle mimicking my reads... I thought Fuzzy was scum, then he did. I thought Mac was scum, then he did. I decided Mac is town, and then he did. I'm noticing a recurring pattern.

[StupendousMan]

So you were willing to lynch a null read?

[StupendousMan]

Whenever you're ready, Baldeagle. I'd love to see the case.

[StupendousMan]

Sounds good. Or if he doesn't follow through with making a case.

@Mod- I will be V/LA this weekend.

[StupendousMan]

He's at L-2.

[StupendousMan]

This day phase is basically oscillating between Stubbs and Baldeagle. Psyche and Cin0G really aren't saying much, and they're probably going to keep lurking anyway. And there is some good info to be had from this lynch. This is a real intent to hammer in about 8 hours. Speak now or forever hold your peace.

[StupendousMan]

You're breaking my heart

Unfortunately, I won't give in to AtE. It's fooled me once, but not this time.

Goodbye. I apologize if you are town.

VOTE: Baldeagle

[StupendousMan]

I agree that the BE wagon seemed town driven, but it is safe to assume there was at least one scum on the wagon. I think Pasch, Mac, and Antihero are town. That leaves Laz and Bert. Of those two I would be more comfortable lynching Bert. Also, Stubbs made a good point.

VOTE: Bert

I need to think more about the recent posts. I've been busy with school so I apologize if I'm not too active.

[StupendousMan]

Guys? Don't be shy. Talking is good.

[StupendousMan]

Antihero, are you joking? Fuzzy and I were both tunneling Stubbs for awhile. That leads me to believe that Fuzzy isn't an Ice Goon. Pasch is up on my suspicion list for making sure Stubbs wasn't lynched. I need to reread before I make any conclusions.

[StupendousMan]

Hmm... So you think that he focused on Stubbs to get towncred later in the game?

[StupendousMan]

Also, I know there was scum involved in that quicklynch. I will find you and you will die.

[StupendousMan]

Okay so after looking through I would prefer lynching either Cin0G or Fuzzy. I get what Antihero is saying.

VOTE: Fuzzy

@Antihero- Please find the post where I said I thought the conversation was scummy. Because I never said that.

[StupendousMan]

Sorry, I've been extremely busy. I'll try to post more tonight.

@Antihero- It was referring to Stubbs' previous post.

[StupendousMan]

Are you talking about what Bert said post-lynch? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Stubbs was talking about something before that. \

@Laz- If you were to lynch anyone right now, who would it be?

[StupendousMan]

That conversation has solidified my scumread on Fuzzy. Antihero looks super town so anyone who votes him will be the next to eat rope after Fuzzy is lynched today.

Pedit: Klick, that post is ridiculously scummy.

[StupendousMan]

@Antihero- I already voted him.

@Klick- Calling them both town without analyzing it looks a lot like scum trying to say nice things to avoid attention.

[StupendousMan]

So PoE is your reasoning for them being town?

[StupendousMan]

Leaning town on Cin0G, leaning scum on Laz, unsure about Mac. I still feel most comfortable with a Fuzzy lynch. He's had a lot of opportunistic votes earlier in the game, and lately his responses just haven't seemed town. It seems too antagonistic and defensive. And I'm not buying the "IDGAF if Stup thinks I'm scum."

If Mac and Cin0G could comment on anything I would be able to get better reads on them. At first glance Cin0G's posts look scummy, but I can see more town motivation in what she said. Mac has had some town posts and some scum posts. His vote on Bert did seem opportunistic, but I also had a scumread on Bert so I get where he was coming from.

[StupendousMan]

cin0g is still scummy too. more later, friends.

Still waiting.

[StupendousMan]

I don't have time to make a case on Fuzzy right now, but I'm actually starting to see Mac as scum. I'll post more on that tonight.

[StupendousMan]

Klick, I have read your cases, and I don't agree with them. Pasch is a solid town read for me. He's been actively engaging people and trying to find scum. Cin0G is also town. I think the last 3 scum are Fuzzy, Mac, and Laz. The only question for me is whether Fuzzy or Mac needs to be lynched, since I'm still unsure about Laz. To be honest, I think either of their lynches will be a scum flip.

For now I'm going to sheep Pasch because he is blatantly town. However, I do have my own reasons for this vote that I will provide later.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mac

[StupendousMan]

Klick? If you could answer Antihero's last post, that would be splendid.

[StupendousMan]

Actually, I think those posts look similar to the ones he's made in this game.

@Fuzzy- Please remind me why you're voting for Antihero. I don't see any good reason for your vote.

[StupendousMan]

That's funny. I think that Mac is Fire and Fuzzy is Ice. But there's really no way to be sure, so I'm just trying to lynch scum. I agree with you that Pasch has been twisting your words, but it may be that he just didn't understand what you were trying to say. Either way, like I said earlier, a Fuzzy lynch or a Mac lynch is perfectly fine with me.

[StupendousMan]

I disagree. I highly doubt Mac replacing out has anything to do with alignment. He's been quiet all game, so I believe his excuse. But that doesn't change the fact that he's scum.

[StupendousMan]

I can give you some reasons when I have time tonight. What do you think of Fuzzy?

[StupendousMan]

Why does RL always have to get in the way of mafia? :/

Anyway, JS, Mac is scummy because he stopped me from hammering Stubbs earlier, he voted for Bert without any reason (Bert was quicklynched), and his reasons have for the most part felt off to me. Why did you ignore my question of what you think of Fuzzy?

Who here is opposed to lynching Fuzzy?

[StupendousMan]

Yes, I believe a hammer is in order. Speak now or forever hold your peace.

[StupendousMan]

That's dumb. Pasch and Klick were obvtown. Now we still have 2 scum left. Probably Fuzzy and Cin0G, but I'll analyze later.

[StupendousMan]

Guys?

[StupendousMan]

Who do you think is scum?

[StupendousMan]

I have a strong townread on Antihero. I may be wrong about him, but I'm thinking there's a 2/3 chance of hitting scum between you, Laz, and Cin0G. I did find your predecessor very scummy. Cin0G is leaning town for. By PoE that leaves Laz. But just to make sure I'm not leading anyone in the wrong direction, I'm going to look at some stuff first and then get back to you.

[StupendousMan]

I've seen enough.

VOTE: Feirei
Mostly because of Fuzzy, but I don't like Feirei's last post. I don't see how he has Antihero as a scum read, and I don't like how he tried to play off his lack of scumreads as a joke. Fuzzy is scum for many reasons that I can point out if you ask me to.

Feirei is at L-1.

As for the last scum... either Cin0G or Laz. Probably Laz by PoE since Cin0G strikes me as town.

[StupendousMan]

UNVOTE:

What is it?

[StupendousMan]

Happy about getting my reads right... not so happy about how this turned out, but I'll take the win.

VOTE: Feirei

[StupendousMan]

Great job, Elyse! I enjoyed this game a lot. Bert's quicklynch was dumb, but overall I think town played well. Tell me when you're modding another game