Open 548-WiFom City: The Invasion (Over)

[Hoopla]

howdy y'all

so, i don't know many of you. who's good? who's bad? who am i able to bully?

VOTE: iamausername

[Hoopla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sakura

[Hoopla]

what kind of name is iamausername

~Zek~

is that all you have to say? it's page two. make an observation or jump on a wagon.

[Hoopla]

Because town should give reason for everything they do especially voting. Until Hoopla gives a good explanation I don't want our vote to change.

don't you find it mildly hypocritical that you believe town should give reasons for everything they do (this is a bad belief btw), yet you float onto page 2 with a nothing post? what was your reason for that? because i don't see any reason townies shouldn't be progressing the game.

i think it's nonsensical that you're trying to turn suspicion on me for what is essentially a difference in aesthetics. i wasn't suspicious of you when i made my post, but i think your followups trying to justify yourself have been overreaching, especially given the placid nature of my original probing. i am suspicious of you now.

What Hoopla did, hopping on the Sakura wagon, with the very naked vote that you find "not town", is how you actually get people out of RVS. It provokes reactions.

to sate dragon alliance's worry about my naked vote, my reason was basically this. it's good to build little wagons and see what comes of them. sometimes it is nothing. sometimes you will get two pages of discourse. you can't predict what will come from an action, but you give the game the opportunity for something to happen. this is largely the reason why i probed dragon alliance. because his post at the start of page two wasn't an attempt to further the game.

to reiterate, that isn't really scummy in and of itself - more lazy and unambitious. BUT, the fallout where he unabashedly claims sakura is a mislynch then and then the progression of thought that eventually declines into:

A naked vote is not town. not town = scum. That is all I have at this time.

...

A naked vote in RVS isn't RVS to me, it is opportunistic.

seems silly, and for the most part i don't know why he has spent so much time explaining his reasoning, when his reasoning is so shallow. scum are more likely to overcompensate imo, because that is the nature of lying, and that is exactly what he's doing.

soz bbe, u scum. shoulda just played it cool

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dragon alliance

[Hoopla]

also, as happy as i am that rottweiler was defending me and seemingly explaining things for me, it seems weird for him to invest himself in it so much. i think the neutral "voice of reason" role is often taken up by scum because it is a cheap way to score town cred without much risk. soooo, keeping an eye on that

[Hoopla]

Scum know better than to...

[snip]

this is where you've gone wrong. a lot of scum don't know better about a lot of things. you're projecting your own understanding and ideas of the game onto someone else. why are you attributing him this level of understanding when he legitimately has said things like

"A naked vote is not town. not town = scum"

?

it looks more like he is overcompensating/overexplaining which are hallmarks of someone trying to lie. your explanation hinges on him being aware of the metagame and altering a natural tendency because of it. why are you giving him this much credit? i haven't seen anything to suggest he is an overly insightful player capable of making such adjustments.

[Hoopla]

Also, your over extending thing doesn't make sense to me right now. Would scum do they if they were worried about being lynched to try to get the wagon off of them? I am not closed to be lynched.

i'm talking about the way you jumped to a lot of conclusions based off almost nothing, and the way you continually explained yourself after that.

i appreciate that wifom defense though. pretty sexy.

[Hoopla]

What are your thoughts on Aisa and profont?

profont's initial reason for pressuring me seems pretty abstract and gut based, which i cannot really criticise (other than for being incorrect) as that is often how i derive my reads (and also subsequently find them hard to explain). his followup explanation in post 54 seems sincere in its simplicity.

aisa looks logical and proactive. i don't have a read on her either way, though.

[Hoopla]

i meant you as in your slot, dragon alliance. looking back, that non-contributing-post was made by zek. you should know that?

in post 83, i am saying to rottweiler that he is assuming that you think about the game in the same way that he does, and because he wouldn't do a certain thing as scum, it means you wouldn't too, which is wrong.

[Hoopla]

Reasoning? I'm assuming you caught on to that?

no, i just wanted to build a wagon.

[Hoopla]

so, there have been no new posts in 24 hours. i guess i will ask a question to get us going again...

I'm conflicted on Hoopla right now.

why are you conflicted?

~~

also, ABR: do you have any reads so far? what's up

[Hoopla]

The bolded part was a question I had for you.

i have no real read on MTD. have barely noticed his posts while i've been playing. i guess that means his posts appear to be filler-y noise.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla tell what's interesting about this game. I'm having a hard time getting invested.

I'm probably going to ask for a replacement. This game doesn't interest me for some reason.

that's really lame. i don't know why you're judging a game based on five pages of activity.

join a wagon. make an effort. like in life, you get out what you put in.

i will help though. vote for DA. my gut is excellent. AND he is a hydra!

[Hoopla]

Our vote hasn't changed because I want my other head to make the decision of whom we vote. I did the RVS vote which stayed because I think Hoopla is scummy. My other head and I have other scum reads we think are stronger but I am trying to force them to post. I want them to contribute too.

My scum reads are: Hoopla, MTD, Profont.

what's the point of posting these scum reads if you have stronger ones? you said "reads", as in plural. this means you have 5+ scumreads overall? why are you voting for me if i'm not your strongest scumread?

one way to force these mystery scumreads to contribute would be to announce them and/or vote for them. or are you going for the silent treatment with them?

[Hoopla]

you said your scumreads are me, MTD and profont, but you said you and your other head have stronger scumreads?

[Hoopla]

and what i'm saying is vote them then.

[Hoopla]

VOTE: puppy


I don't think you guys are actually scum but I figure a good old fashioned tunnelfight should get htis game going

this seems kind of pointless if you're going to preempt your vote with "i don't think you guys are scum". how is this reaction test supposed to do anything?

[Hoopla]

well, i'm still here.

kinda think we just need some death to spice up the game.

[Hoopla]

can someone just fill me in, im just gonna sheep whoever can give me the best summary for now

summary:

game is super slow
dragon alliance is scum
you should vote him now

[Hoopla]

well, i guess the beastcharizard wagon has completely collapsed. no matter, it is only day 1, and i should probably explore other options anyway.

does anyone know/remember if iamusername is lurky as a trait as town/scum? i know he used to be occasionally lurky years ago, but don't remember if it was alignment related.

UNVOTE:

[Hoopla]

VOTE: profont

[Hoopla]

VOTE: profont

Why?

What do you think about Sakura, Albert, Aisa, ika?

~Wis

kinda in limbo and don't really know who to vote, so i thought i'd help out ika since i think his recent energy has been town.

also, sakura's ragequit is 100% town.

[Hoopla]

also, sakura's ragequit is 100% town.

Why do you think so?

the over-the-top nature of it is too silly to be scum.

i think that reaction makes more sense coming from someone wrongfully accused, rather than scum being pinned. it just seems more difficult to get indignant when someone is actually correct about your play.

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla: You didn't answer Wis' second question?

i mentioned ika and sakura being town. so, the part of the question i missed is a read on you and abr.

i haven't really had any major thoughts about you either way, and i think abr's apathy is probably more likely to be town, but that just comes from an opinion that he relishes being scum more than a normal person.

[Hoopla]

you are missing the fact that it's something that Sakura has done tons of times as town before, which makes it a great thing to fake as scum.

that sentence makes no sense to me. if she has a track record of doing it a ton of times as town, wouldn't you favour that interpretation than the latter?

you make it sound like she is doing this as a tactical decision as scum, but the actual act of replacing out negates any advantage gained...

[Hoopla]

and no, i didn't click any links, sorry

[Hoopla]

anyone who is a serial replace-outer probably isn't considering theoretical future advantages for their team, or about their team at all.

by your own admission she's done it tons of times as town, and once as scum. why are you zeroing in on a single instance of her doing this as scum?

[Hoopla]

her replace-outs as town have a different flavour to them?

[Hoopla]

i know some people probably won't like this style of play/logic, but i'm basically at the point where i won't lynch a handful of people, but will lynch anyone else.

won't lynch: greymarble, ika, abr, rottweiler

iam's recent posts have been fine and he tends to come good once he's interested, so add him to that list too.

everyone else i don't really have any town tells on, so consider my vote on all of them.

[Hoopla]

won't lynch: greymarble, abr

~Wis

given the main support for the sakura/greymarble lynch other than you is a bunch of people in my untown list, i'm pretty ok with not going down that road. and nobody has expressed interest in lynching abr, so me not being down for that isn't preventing anything.

[Hoopla]

i am a next level player with sublime townreading skills

lets focus on the juicy section of untown players i have crafted. aisa seems next likeliest to get some votes. i'll jump on her.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: aisa

[Hoopla]

cool.

aisa vs. notscience head to head battle.

everyone who hasn't picked a side yet, do so plz

[Hoopla]

every wagon i try and get on collapses. but at least this is better energy from everyone, ripe for analysis tomorrow.

new head to head duel looks like greymarble vs. MTD.

i'm perfectly fine with lynching MTD. he's probably even a better choice than aisa, imo

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MTD

[Hoopla]

i think so.

MTD, claim asap please.

[Hoopla]

remind me why he's town?

[Hoopla]

i read your posts when we're directly interacting, not when you're word-vomiting all over the thread.

[Hoopla]

are you defending MTD because he's an ally in your plans to lynch greymarble?

[Hoopla]

he's done nothing town either. he's getting flashwagoned as a compromise as far as i can tell, and as long as scum isn't the driving force behind the flashwagon (greymarble), it being a flashwagon isn't really suspicious.

i am actually kind of suspicious of your white-knighting of MTD, especially if he flips town. you're displaying too much certainty over what is essentially a null-ish slot.

[Hoopla]

Besides I will clearly need allies tomorrow, when I will 200% not be alive

no offense, but why would scum want to get rid of your spammy tunneling? the only reason is if greymarble is scum, but even then, keeping you alive is probably beneficial for them anyway because you have little credibility and just post noise.

as an aside (i was going to save this for tomorrow when i do a proper analysis): i am not as super-convinced on the sakura/greymarble slot like i was initially - your counterexample was convincing enough to bring it back to nullish, but llamarble is a valuable town player who i don't want to see die today, which is why i didn't bother correcting my read on this slot. greyice also seems to be able to read me ok from when i've played with him, so that is incentive for me to keep him alive too. i also think his "i'm so obtown, scum are scared of me" posturing is likely to be town, most because boisterous players who claim obvtownness like that do tend to be really motivated as town, and less so as scum. Tierce, hitogoroshi and Llamafluff are other examples of players who exploit that obvtown transparency angle as town, but suck at doing it as scum. i reckon greyice is probably similar.

regardless, i want to wait until tomorrow to look ar them properly after the fallout of today, and see what analysis llamarble brings to the game.

so, that's why we shouldn't lynch that slot atm.

[Hoopla]

As for why I'll die, lol. I'm the only one doing anything in this game.

yeah, no

it just dilutes any actual points you or others have in the game. anyway, i'm off now. i'll try and bbl before deadline just in case i need to switch or whatever. peace

[Hoopla]

checking in. i see we have a track claim on notscience, so i'll save my time on rereading for a bit until we see a response from notscience.

ika kill makes notscience scum unlikely. why's he gonna kill the one guy who was actively defending him?

this defense of notscience seems really jarring. although maybe that is because it is juxtaposed by rottweiler's post immediately after.

[Hoopla]

Also because it would be cool if we could get him lynched without having to claim, but I guess after my D1 play that was not likely to happen.

i think there was probably a real chance of this happening regardless of your influence.

[Hoopla]

[snip]

...on top of the other reasons Beast is town

why doesn't beast work as a partner in a MTD/notscience team?

[Hoopla]

MTD wasn't part of the team. He was a cheerleader for the team. He knew of them, but they didn't know of him.

I can't see him pushing his buddies. They're basically his only connection to his win condition, and he must have felt lost as hell (hell, I'd feel lost with a Traitor PM, and I've got like 10x the experience).

i guess i kinda agree. i forgot that beastcharizard was MTD's first major target.

i don't think MTD is the player to go for the obvious distancing straight up, mostly because that is second level scum thinking, and MTD didn't even display first level thinking by failing to fakeclaim a PR on D1 to derail his wagon/out another PR.

[Hoopla]

haven't really read through the game for connections yet, but my gut says it's one of the quieter low-key players like profont or shockwave, so i am happy sheeping until i'm more informed.

VOTE: shockwave

[Hoopla]

I'm a VT also.

I know the game hasn't been very wall-heavy, but I am overdue to do a proper analysis of each player. I'll try and keep things relatively digestible...

~~

From town to scum:

Rottweiler:

Essentially confirmed town, so I won't bother talking about him.

Aisa:

Essentially confirmed town. In the event of an all VT massclaim, this will eliminate any conspiro-JOAT possibilities. Even if there is a Goon Cop/Vig, the probability of the stars aligning for Aisa-scum are still too remote to be worth considering.

Greymarble:

I'm fairly sure Greymarble is town, purely from the GreyICE obvtown posturing on D1 when they replaced into the game. It's too weirdly brazen for scum to take that tact - it's almost always townies that operate on that air of belief that they are super-protown and ought not to be lynched. The reason this is actually true is because they can't convincingly replicate that as scum.

Another recent hint about Greymarble's alignment was in post #669, where they gave an alignment read on a dead beastcharizard without realising that slot had already died. It's much likelier that scum would be

more

aware that beastcharizard was the nightkill, because scum know 100% who the intended kill was, and it coming up differently would surely stick in their mind. This is a pretty esoteric towntell to try and fake as scum also, so I'm not willing to entertain the idea that Greymarble is playing the meta-game this hard, and that they

know

this is something that looks townie and would be good to fake. Occam's Razor: a simpler explanation is Greymarble is town rather than faking it as scum/forgetting beastcharizard died as scum.

Albert B. Rampage:

I'm less convinced about his alignment than on D1, mostly because enough people have commented on his laissez-faire approach to the game in a positive light, that he surely must be self-aware of his image by now, yet he hasn't done anything to channel this into positive action. This has an air of "well, this is working, so I'll keep coasting", while I think as town (at least some of the time) I'd expect ABR to change gears and start bossing the game, especially now that we have juicy flips from both alignments. It could also just be genuine disinterest, so I'm factoring that in, but there is

more

incentive for him to maintain the status-quo as scum which is why I'm not ruling him out to the same degree as Greymarble.

From the MTD--> ABR angle, he fits as a possible scumpartner, most because of the minimal interaction from MTD towards ABR. Most newbie-scum players tend to err on the side of avoidance rather than actively seeking out interactions with their partners. The one thing I read positively for ABR is in MTD's main reads post, for his read on ABR he literally just says "Nothing". I feel like if ABR was MTD's partner he'd recognise that would look a little jarring and would make up more of a read. For example, look at the way MTD wrote about notscience. Notscience had done essentially the same amount of nothing as ABR up until that point, yet MTD felt compelled to elucidate on one of notscience's random opinions and

explain

that notscience had indeed done nothing. I think MTD didn't bother pontificating on ABR because ABR wasn't a key player on the top of his mind in the same way notscience was.

Shockwave Rider:

While I was rereading through MTD's reads list again, I remembered that he completely forgot to write about Shockwave. He remembers a couple of posts later that he forgot him. In the same way I don't see MTD writing about ABR-scum with such jarring minimalism, I also don't see him completely forgetting to give a read on his scumpartner. When scum give a list of reads (especially their first reads-post of the game), they're usually fairly conscious of where they're going to place their partners in the town-to-scum spectrum, so forgetting someone altogether seems more indicative of this player not being on MTD's mind, ergo not a scum partner, who would be on MTD's mind.

I'll do

iamausername

and

Profont

together as this is where my PoE leads me: When MTD writes about both of these players in his reads post, he's vague and make irrelevant commentaries on the player's actions, which is similar to how he wrote about notscience, so both of players fit well within the confines of what I'd expect from MTD towards his buddy. Neither player were ever in danger of the noose on D1, so there never was much opportunity for MTD to talk about either player, but as I said earlier, newbie-scum generally err on the side of avoiding unnecessary interactions with scumpartners rather than instigating and linking in overt ways.

This is what makes me think it is iamausername over Profont: MTD's first post of the game is a random vote for Profont, which eventually spawns into a mini-dialogue with him. To me, that interaction seems less likely to have occurred between buddies than between scum and a townie.

~~

UNVOTE:
VOTE: iamausername

For those voting Shockwave, tell me what you think about my comments on him. Do you agree with my logic for townreading him?

[Hoopla]

No, as you are judging based on how you would think as scum. You don't know how MTD thinks.

~Wis

I'm putting myself into his head.

I think it's fair to say MTD is newb-scum - he didn't fakeclaim a role on D1 when the threat of the noose was approaching him which is like scumplay 101. This gives us an indication of his skill level. Amateur liars in real life tend to overcompensate or overexplain things because they subconsciously crave approval and want to avoid suspicion. I think MTD is an amateur liar, which is why I think he'd be more willing to elucidate on his buddies when making reads like he did with notscience even though notscience had done nothing at all. So, to forget his other buddy altogether seems unlikely to me.

I remember when I first started playing mafia years ago, as scum I was very conscious of who my partners were. I think most new scum players feel the same way.

[Hoopla]

No, as you are judging based on how you would think as scum. You don't know how MTD thinks.

~Wis

As an aside: you can disqualify any thought or line of logic in this game with that sentence (or something similar). So, your objection isn't exactly meaningful.

[Hoopla]

MORE ACTIVITY

hey, you're voting shockwave. what do you think about my post on him?

[Hoopla]

why?

[Hoopla]

mod: prod aisa plz

[Hoopla]

The fact that he left SR out is an irrelevant and trivial fact to me.

it seems like a pretty meaningful tell to me, so i'm kinda confused how you can reject it to the point of not even needing to explain why.

do you ever make posts giving a read on each player in the game? how could you ever forget to give a read on your buddy?

[Hoopla]

I don't like Hoopla's insistence on that point. I get the feeling she is just trying to appear town. Definitely lynch her if Shockwave flips town.

~Wis

it's logic babe. i'm insistent because i'm confident in the read.

[Hoopla]

Interestingly, in two recent runs of this setup, three of the current alive players have been scum in this setup:

Open 539 - ABR selected Recruit/JOAT/Role Cop. Shockwave was the Traitor.
Open 520 - notscience was the Traitor in a team that chose daytalk and Role Cop.

Both of these games were scum wins, so would any of these players change a winning formula? I think the mechanic of upgrading to more roles is probably more alluring to newer players - whenever you see new or less-thinking players design a setup, it's always a clusterfuck polluted with powerroles. I think the people who fit the profile of zero upgrades the best are Greymarble and iamausername. I think ABR could go down the route of switching his selections completely, rather than picking the same things - actually, I think if anything, he'd be more likely to change his selections than pick the same ones. Profont and Shockwave seem the least likely to go for zero roles, imo. Notscience seems to be a pretty lol-impulsive sort of player who would be down for PR's, and I don't think Profont or Shockwave would override just for the sake of overriding.

That being said, well, we can discuss mechanics later, but I'd tend to think Hoopla would pick either two power roles or zero, due to the nature of the power roles.

this is probably true about me.

PREVIEW EDIT: just seen 707, postin' anyway

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla: We fit the profile of nothing. We are a replacement, Sakura Hana is who would have decided that. Just sayin.

oh yeah, silly me.

don't know anything about sakura, but the fact she's a serial-replace-outer when someone tunnels on her probably doesn't indicate that she thinks deeply about the game.

lock in my vote for iamausername.

[Hoopla]

why is that scummy?

[Hoopla]

Hoopla: Fyi, Proph and I had a theoretical discussion before the game started, and agreed that if we rolled scum, we would probably go for nothing. So, I'm a little skeptical of the validity of your evaluation.

i'm slightly suspicious when someone voluntarily brings up stuff like this about themself, but the rest of the post is fine. he's helping us lynch iam-scum, what more do you want?

[Hoopla]

mod: can you plz post a VC and replace aisa

[Hoopla]

ABR's play in this game looks like what a troll would post if they hacked into his account and tried to parody his style.

[Hoopla]

bump

[Hoopla]

Here's a VC, since the mod isn't doing them:

Unofficial VC - 8 alive, 5 to lynch:

iamausername

4

-

(Hoopla, Greymarble, Profont, ABR)

Shockwave Rider

2

-

(Wisdom, Bertkerberos)

Hoopla

1

-

(Shockwave Rider)

Not voting

1

-

(iamausername)

[Hoopla]

Bertkerberos can hammer when he's caught up. Or he can just skip the work and win the game now, and then read the game overnight if iam isn't scum.

[Hoopla]

We're fine with being PoE lynched toDay as well

why are you saying this?

[Hoopla]

the only thing that is suspicious about shockwave is him coasting the last day or so when me and greymarble have been defending him, but still don't think it's him tbh.

@bert: no offense to wisdom, but he was wrong on MTD, aisa, me and probably shockwave. he fluked a track on notscience, so good on for him that, but he's been below average this game. have you read the game overnight?

[Hoopla]

profont is my top suspect.

i'm waiting for him to answer my question, though.

[Hoopla]

Yeah POE. It's not Hoopla or Bertkerberos. Maybe Profont, depending on if his attack on MTD looks like a bus or not; I'm still undecided.

why have you suddenly dropped me as a suspect?

[Hoopla]

I iso'd Hoopla. I think Hoopla is town. That leaves only SR. GG scum.

you expressed suspicion for me yesterday. i'm finding your reads increasingly arbitrary.

after iam flipped town, my natural instinct was to question your alignment and start considering you a suspect again. i feel like if you were town, you'd have similar concerns about my alignment from your perspective. but you don't, and that seems unnatural and suspicious.

[Hoopla]

well, maybe you should care, because you're being counterproductive. when you say stuff like this:

Maybe Profont, depending on if his attack on MTD looks like a bus or not; I'm still undecided.

it shows your targets are pretty meaningless (hint: profont's vote on MTD can't be a bus because scum didn't know who the traitor was).

[Hoopla]

six alive. shockwave isn't at L-1. and update the OP with the flips.

[Hoopla]

VOTE: profont

[Hoopla]

Shockwave is indeed at L-1. 6 alive, requires 4 to lynch.

keep trying.

[Hoopla]

soz everyone, been a bit busy with ~life~

will make some good quality posts tomorrow.

[Hoopla]

I know that someone talked about no lynching in a 12 player setup as a strategy on 'Scum, but what does this accomplish other than having Bertkerberos die?

i agree with this. no point no lynching today.

i've suddenly lost motivation for this game. don't know why, but i'm happy settling on my vote for profont. he needs to be one of the lynches either today or tomorrow, so lets just get it done.

[Hoopla]

I had a dream last night that we lynched Hoopla and she flipped town.

follow your dreams.

~~

at the moment, i feel like there is little point trying to defend myself. enough people have suspicion of me, that it is obvious to me that i am going to be either today or tomorrow's lynch. i don't know who the last scum is. i was relatively sure after iam flipped town that profont was the final scum, but his play today has been fairly town (i'm a sucker martyr-type dispositions). if anything, i'm more suspicious of albert, only because PoE leads me into a weird space where everyone has convincing reasons to be town. originally, albert's play i deemed highly town because it was so unorthodox, but he has been coasting on that persona since people have started commenting on it and him being self-aware of it - it's a little suspicious that he has continued in that manner so uniformly.

i still believe shockwave to be town based on a single tell: MTD forgetting him. i guess there is an outside chance greymarble is playing a genius scumgame after lucking themselves into a townish slot, but it isn't really worth the risk to find out.

my two choices are albert and profont if my opinion means anything once i am gone.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, I'm giving you a chance to vote for SR and to declare me town, because at this point, SR is calling me town and is voting you and that's going to affect my decision on who to vote.

Hoopla you have 24 hours.

listen to greymarble. profont is the best choice today.

if necessary i will compromise to shockwave to spare myself (it isn't impossible he is scum given i'm only really townreading him off one tell), but i still think he's more likely to be town than you, sooo.

[Hoopla]

as an aside, the residual paranoia i had for greymarble's slot is evaporating. if they're scum, they're playing an unnecessarily deceptive game, as there is not a lot of reason for them to townread me so hard as scum right now. i was a free mislynch today and they declined it. it's not like they needed the town cred for such a move anyway.

[Hoopla]

also, deadline is 33 hours away. i think profont is a viable possibility to be lynched today, with him already being voted by me and greymarble. those not on this wagon should weigh in in their next post.

i'm not compromising to shockwave unless its necessary for a) deadline or b) to save myself.

[Hoopla]

for the sake of clarity, assuming bert was a vt, mod?

also, the only real play is no-lynching. dunno if it's wise to talk too much about suspicions today, but:

Answer for what? I didn't even want to lynch Profont.

that's a pretty convenient defense.

[Hoopla]

nobody is clear enough to the point where no-lynching isn't useful.

[Hoopla]

too bad. you're not clear, so you don't get to call the shots.

[Hoopla]

the good news for you is that if shockwave still is tunneling on me without considering you or grey, i'm essentially forced into having to gamble on shockwave being scum as there would be no way i could get you or grey lynched without his vote.

regardless of whether we lynch or no-lynch today, i still wanna hear from grey first.

[Hoopla]

i'll make a vote (either for someone or no-lynch) when i'm ready.

if you wanna throw your toys out the pram in the mean time, go for it.

[Hoopla]

grey, hurry up and get in here and have a chat with me.

[Hoopla]

eh, that does actually make sense.

if grey or ABR actually are scum, good on them, they've played a good game. i almost certainly can't get either of you lynched, so i can lose to that. right now, i am the most sure of ABR town. i just don't see the petty ultimatums as being scum - there's no reason for him to be this proactive as scum when a win is almost guaranteed with me/shockwave both alive. if anything, i'm paranoid about grey mostly because i had cleared him on gameplay and behavioral related reasons, and when the game comes down to the wire like this and we still haven't lynched the last scum, there's a real possibility they have just played an excellent game.

right now, i see it as:

shockwave - 50%
greymarble - 35%
ABR - 15%

i'm okay with gambling on shockwave, mostly because this is the only neighbourhood of possibilities where my vote can lead to a win for me. i just hope it is correct. realistically, he is probably the likeliest candidate remaining, so...

VOTE: shockwave

[Hoopla]

bump.

lets see some posts plz. come on grey.

[Hoopla]

greymarble is town. cool. i was a lot more paranoid about that slot than ABR, and although Grey being confirmed town brings ABR back onto the table as a possible lynch (as the optimal play here would be to sheep the confirmed townie on their decision), i'm a lot more sure it is Shockwave over ABR.

for me, i think i overly invested myself on town-SR based on

that

tell, to the point where it made me skip over everything else shockwave had done throughout the game. in general he has sat back and chiseled out a tunnel on me without really investing much effort. this can easily be considered a form of active lurking, as it provides himself with a script each time he posts and makes it look like he's doing something. admittedly, i haven't been super accurate this game (none of us have really), but i have been doing my best to pursue lynches i thought were correct and defend people who i thought were town (including shockwave at times). despite shockwave's tunnel on me, he essentially comes from nowhere to hammer profont who he didn't express suspicion for, yet was clearly a necessary mislynch for shockwave's victory path as scum. i'm actually curious about grey (and abr's) thoughts on shockwave's hammer yesterday, because neither of them have seemed to mention it.

It's unquestionable Hoopla is playing a better game than Shockwave Rider. I think even Shockwave would admit Hoopla is a better player. If only the bad ones got scum all the time.

without sounding arrogant, when it comes to mudslinging contests that these lylo situations often turn out to be, i think i will always present myself better than shockwave as town or scum. i don't think you or abr should be voting based on what i or shockwave say, because regardless of alignment our objective is essentially the same: get the other person lynched. i am town, i have done my best. if either of you have questions for me, i'll be happy to answer them, but i'm not going to comb through shockwave's posts and make you read my spin on why he's scum. you should be doing that yourself.

okay, okay. just one snarky comment:

The hell is this?

VOTE: Hoopla. You played a good game. Don't know that I have much more to say. How awkward it was when you were explaining why you were voting for me was pretty hilarious though.

tell me that doesn't look fake.

[Hoopla]

simply put, ABR isn't good enough to fake a scumgame like this. it's unnecessarily creative and weird. if he is, good on him, i'm prepared to lose to that. you're just more likely.

[Hoopla]

simply put, ABR isn't good enough to fake a scumgame like this. it's unnecessarily creative and weird. if he is, good on him, i'm prepared to lose to that. you're just more likely.

When did you come to that conclusion?

i've had him as the least likeliest candidate all day. if it wasn't you, greymarble was my next choice, but that has recently been ruled out. are you going anywhere with this?

Why wasn't that part of your reasoning when you fist voted for me?

it was...

[Hoopla]

i think the game of mafia was the true winner here today.

[Hoopla]

i never say regardless of alignment. let the mod have the glory of revealing.

[Hoopla]

usually i don't like playing with hydras, but you guys were fun to play with and have a good synergy. i would play with you both again. there's nothing worse than playing with dysfunctional hydras that are all over the place - we already have ABR playing that role.

mod's probably mia as usual, so i'll just say i was scum. good game to you all.

[Hoopla]

because you weren't onto me then. if that changed, i might have, but you townread me the whole game.

if i can trick you and have you as my ally, that is very valuable and worth the risk. your defenses on me are basically the reason why i won the game.

[Hoopla]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/MwTiQsuCsCD

it was mostly me talking, so i assume notscience won't mind me sharing it.

[Hoopla]

@greymarble. do you guys communicate via QT for your hydra? if so, i'd be curious to see how you guys interact and discuss information in private