Open 550: Duck, Duck, Goose!

[Maxous]

I got 2 game start PM's...this game means bizness

VOTE: Dessew

Sheep the counter go go go

ok

vote:Dessew

[Maxous]

don't be all jelly

[Maxous]

No? It was only Farkwad when the game started, IIRC.

what exactly were you trying to accomplish with the vote on farkward?

[Maxous]

his vote wasn't random.

[Maxous]

No vote is demonstrably random, and yet it is still called RVS...

[theory] I agree and believe the term RVS is quite misleading in the first place [/theory]

Dessew stated that he had a specific purpose for the vote and I asked what it was.
His response looks like he is town to me.

unvote, vote: Bubbajack8

[Maxous]

Well, I got a couple of light town-reads, not much in the way of scum reads.
I'm okay leaving the vote on bubbajack at any rate

Marquis / Kush / ?

This was a bad attack on Marquis imo (labelling them buddies for weak reasoning)

I haven't ever played a game like this. I have an understanding of PGO.

didn't like this either.
not understanding PGO doesn't make kushm4sta town but he stated he wasn't aware of what they did.
Continuing to press the issue because 'I know what PGO is' doesn't feel right.

~

You guys are really pressing someone over an RVS on page 2?

Also, I want input from

NS and kush

at the moment. Otherwise I will start policy lynching.

I could vote Aegor for this nonsense however.

[Maxous]

FYI, Aegor and kush have some history, but Aegor, please don't push a PL on him, #75 is actually kind of useful.

useful as in kush being town or useful as in pointing out mist is scummy?

@aegor, I've played with nobody special before in...something.

[Maxous]

I'm not enjoying Kush or Monkeyman thus far. Both seem intent on being obstinate and unhelpful. Bubba's okay, though. I don't see his cheekiness as indicative.

I see his cheekiness as something I want to lynch

eh

unvote, vote: Marquis

really don't like that comment.

@dessew: i'll talk about them when they're more solid

[Maxous]

wagons should be on Marquis or Aegor methinks.

Not mafia and monkeyman are likely both town, the latter being very town imo.

[Maxous]

@Maxous:

Why Aegor? I understand pressure votes on Marquis but not really sure where you are coming from on Aegor.

wasn't feeling great about Aegor previously and #153 is pretty rubbish tbh

i'll explain the town-reads later I suppose, on the fly this morning :/

[Maxous]

i am so lost what is going here

vote:Aegor

how about we just lynch the guy that has done nothing but push

policy lynches

and went 'lol bad' at a few people.

[Maxous]

@Maxous: my issue with MonkeyMan is similar, only difference is that he sometimes try to call it actual scumhunting.

I don't think scum would of demanded the meta link of Marquis' games and read through them enough to come up with the conclusions he did here + here
if you are scum and you already know marquis alignment you generally

just wouldn't bother

like, monkeyman really went out of his way to have not-mafia provide the games so he could look through them.
generally scum just don't do that when he could of easily brushed the meta-read off.

[Maxous]

Why is your vote NOT on me then?

only if you say, please ^__^

And have you read through kush's games?

i get the picture.

Looks more like pushing inactive players to be more active to me.

this doesn't
in fact in retrospect that post is rather funny given what he just said in #191.

[Maxous]

town policy'd ww in a game i was in once.

idk wat 'policy ww' is

Maybe. Would you classify Aegor's actions as active lurking? He hasn't really contributed any ideas, just ragged on people who are being even lurker-y than him.

prolly a better way of phrasing it than I was.

@dessew: fair enough, I would of town-read brian skies for #142.

[Maxous]

kushm4sta, stop making aegor actions justified, it's making it harder to lynch scum.

[Maxous]

eh, I think kush is cheeky town rather than cheeky scum.
Bubba's reaction in #260 is horrible btw. Destroyed my kinda town-read on him.

@Max: Same question. I wouldn't agree with your assessment in 190.

not a whole pile to add to that, because aegor

isn't doing anything

he hasn't given any scum-reads. The vote on kush is

policy

and his justification for the pl has gotten bad in the bottom of #251.
and #228?. He is not calling kush scum, asking that question is very disingenuous .

[Maxous]

That being said I agree with a lynch on kush. The fact that he completely misunderstood the power that every town has (and its a pretty straightforward power at that) seems like a scum-slip, and his defense against pressure is that he's still "figuring stuff out". Play should never be defended by claims that can not be proved either way.

add this guy to the scummy bucket

[Maxous]

bubbajack8 - bit scummy
Not_Mafia - towny
Aegor - scummy
Dessew - very town
kushm4sta - lol..but kinda town
Dr Pants - scummy
Mist7676 - townish
Nobody Special - likely town
Marquis - scummy
Paschendale - very town
MonkeyMan - town

for clarification of where i'm at..finally had enough to get reads off everyone :S

[Maxous]

sure, you make several posts claiming how town you are, and when somebody does town-read you, he has to be scum because no way somebody could be town-reading you

holy smurf

[Maxous]

dessew - i quoted the part of dr.pants play I found scummy

That being said I agree with a lynch on kush. The fact that he completely misunderstood the power that every town has (and its a pretty straightforward power at that) seems like a scum-slip, and his defense against pressure is that he's still "figuring stuff out".

Play should never be defended by claims that can not be proved either way.

add this guy to the scummy bucket

he suspects for kush for "scum slip" ( wasn't it explained why it was not one? ), and the attack bolded is redonkulous, which looks more like theory than saying why somebody is scummy.
to me, it looks like he was looking for an excuse to scum-read rather than naturally etc.

Also, lynching me is fine if it can get more interest into the game and the deadline is closely approaching.

That's a strange thing to say.....

plus lol?

~
ftr I don't think that Aegor+kush being scumbuddies is impossible here

[Maxous]

I felt dr.pants response to me in #330 was towny anyway but let's not be using mod actions to read players, yes?

[Maxous]

Yeah I'm feeling pretty good about Not_Mafia and NS as scum right now.

I'm not sure how anyone can particularly be reading Not_Mafia as Town; skimming through his ISO nearly every post I find I dislike.

uhhh???

[Maxous]

@Luka: I'm gonna take a quick stab at this:
Post #366
You're putting up quite a case against NS, and some of the points you make have some merit. NS doesn't post often, and hasn't added much real information to the thread. That being said, I think your motivation as a whole is a lot like most people's motivation against Kush: you dislike the way he plays. You try to point out scum motivations behind his moves, but personally I think that your argument is a stretch. Not to say that NS comes off as town, but a lynch on NS would be a policy lynch at this point.

what's the point of this exactly? have you given a read on NS.

[Maxous]

What is this nonsense? And my Not_Mafia argument will come out in the fullness of time, I have been in this game for about a day, how much do you expect from me in such a small time?

oh.
then it should be interesting.

I don't like the extension we were given, considering everyone is just going to be dragging their feet a bit more.
...
I don't like how we let the kush wagon go. I was really feeling it. VOTE: Kush

given the first line, kinda interesting you opted to vote kush now instead of hammering earlier.

I do agree with Mist, mostly because Kush completely stopped posting and suddenly all of the pressure is elsewhere. I think that is somewhat suspicious.

...why?

[Maxous]

Yeah I'm feeling pretty good about Not_Mafia and NS as scum right now.

I'm not sure how anyone can particularly be reading Not_Mafia as Town; skimming through his ISO nearly every post I find I dislike.

luca, you really

really

should explain this.

i'll vote kush tomorrow, give the replacements a bit more time..i don't see another lynch going through

[Maxous]

I will put my case against Not_Mafia in my next post, seeing as you're so eager to hear it.

i'm not interested in your case

per se

but "I'm not sure how anyone can particularly be reading Not_Mafia as Town" is a strong statement that i would like to see justified.

didn't think anything in particular about #427

[Maxous]

I will put my case against Not_Mafia in my next post, seeing as you're so eager to hear it.

i'm not interested in your case

per se

but "I'm not sure how anyone can particularly be reading Not_Mafia as Town" is a strong statement that i would like to see justified.

didn't think anything in particular about #427

[Maxous]

that's a ..surprising kill.

i guess she was kinda anti-monkeyman.

[Maxous]

gimme a break with "wiki theory time". I commented on it because there is no obvious reason for the kill that I can see. mist wasn't even a universal town read last I checked.
why do the two of you think she died?

@dr.pants: yes as in she scum-read monkeyman. (and ftr town-read not_mafia)

[Maxous]

not the exact same situation but just gonna point out recent precedence for me-town reacting to a weird night kill. (the reason was just more obvious in that game)

not arming herself sure, but the 'not being an information kill'... i think i've seen that like once or twice ever. It generally doesn't happen.

[Maxous]

Self-meta for something so specific is a bit fishy as well. But more to the point, why bring it up just to dismiss it? Why mention something if you have nothing to say about it, no information to share with the town, and no idea how it can be useful in finding scum? That's posting just to post, not making useful content.

dismiss what. monkeyman more likely scum, not_mafia more likely town.

dr.pants' reaction in #455 seemed town to me with how aggressively he laid into MM.
I do like luca's reactions in #459 + #450. the latest post also comes across as genuine town-arrogance/swagger. leaning town here atm
ns' reaction was pretty meh. not really sure there tbh
bubba's #465 is poor and it mirrors his bad reaction to kush calling him scum in #260. leaned scum on him at the end of day 1 and this is making him look worse.
not_mafia's reaction was pretty null, still believe him to be town
your reaction surprised me tbh Pasch. I had you as strong town at the end of day 1 but you poorly vote me cause "mafia are more likely to comment on night kills?"

@pasch:

can you give me examples where you saw scum commenting on 'surprising' night kills?

ended up being messier than I expected but the at least reactions were decent.

[Maxous]

sorry for the inactivity over these few days. lazy week

eh just skimmed the last 3 pages but i think luca is town here, if nothing else the self-vote appears to be a genuine tantrum rather than a scum gambit.

gut tells me nobody special is town too.

[Maxous]

(again) quick look says yes he is still town.

that 'scumslip' is rubbish

[Maxous]

eh, as in it's just not a scumslip.
i can easily see somebody saying that as town

[Maxous]

i'm leaning voting bubbajack, monkeyman is looking a bit worse to me in contrast to day 1 but not enough to lynch tbh.
frankly i've been waiting this whole time for aegor's replacement. i'm fairly confident that slot is scum and that slot is just slipping into obscurity

[Maxous]

And what would be the scum-motivation behind that comment?.

defending your partners?
you tried to excuse the two scummiest players in the game for a nonsense reason.
where did you learn that scum don't be inactive? have you ever played scum?

[Maxous]

It's funny how no-one agrees with me considering I'm scum, you'd think there would be at least some murmurs of agreement from my scum buddies given my arguments have actually been pretty spot on this game..

again, where are you learning this kind of thing?

Can't help but notice you remained conspicuously silent on that. Or are you engaging in some sort of "hazing the new guy" initiation?

wow

yep

vote:reinoe

i'll feel silly if luca is scum here, but it's hard to see this ridiculous righteous indignation as being fabricated, particularly from someone that clearly isn't very experienced.

[Maxous]

I suggest you read through my posting history and you'll find that I have a confidence that has been call narcissistic. Do your homework before you make that kind of statement.

what?
i voted you because your reaction was far over-defensive to pants questioning you.
"hazing the new guy" means nothing. nobody is 'picking on you' and to imply that is the reason you are being asked to explain reads is unnecessary and scummy
and this comes off the back of aegor too, who i had problems with

[Maxous]

I gave you the FOS and this is how you react. OK then.

and i didn't even see THIS when i just made that last post

[Maxous]

oh.

i'll feel silly if luca is scum here, but it's hard to see this ridiculous righteous indignation as being fabricated, particularly from someone that clearly isn't very experienced.

this is me explaining why i think luca is town, not reinoe is scum.

[Maxous]

i'm leaning monkeyman not being scum currently but the other 2 prolly are yes.

@monkeyman: #580 was an answer to yourself as well as reinoe

[Maxous]

i'll feel silly if luca is scum here, but it's hard to see this

ridiculous righteous indignation

as being fabricated, particularly from someone that clearly

isn't very experienced.

You try to use inexperience to justify why someone shouldn't react in a certain way. Monkey man disagrees with you (and myself) about how much experience should matter in a game.

i clarified this in #583

I had a problem with Dr. Pants making a comment about me that he completely ignored about another poster.

~

What's your opinion of post 105 when Bubba says he likes MonkeyMan because he says what he's thinking? Can't help but notice you remained conspicuously silent on that.

Or are you engaging in some sort of "hazing the new guy" initiation?

the first two sentences are questioing/challenging pants. fine
the bolded is playing the victim card

~~

@drpants: how about i re-phrase my reason to "from what i have seen of luca's play i don't feel like he would be good enough to fake his behaviour as scum, he is prolly just town"

[Maxous]

@drpants: how about i re-phrase my reason to "from what i have seen of luca's play i don't feel like he would be good enough to fake his behaviour as scum, he is prolly just town"

I dunno, I think upset/butthurt play can come from both town and scum so I don't really see that as a tell.

eh it's not really that. it's 'how dare you not see how obv-town I am', 'i'm so good at scum, i would be playing rings around you', 'all the people calling me scum must be scum' blah blah blah
it's not mad-scum, there isn't a hint of appeasement in it, it's just 'fuk u cause i'm so town guyz' which comes across as sincere

compare it to this which is attacking me and trying to appease me

at the same time

and well,

Not the same thing at all. Why would a townie subbing in feel the need to defend the actions of the person in the slot before him unprovoked?

Why would someone make a scum team with no scum on the most popular wagon despite that wagon hitting L-1 two separate times? Then when that gets pointed out become intrasigent and insist on pushing for more mislynches anyway?

VOTE: not_mafia

plus seriously?

[Maxous]

See, I knew me taking a back seat would have a positive effect. I have given dozens of arguments and examples as to why I believe NS to be scum which you had no time for, but as soon as someone else suspects him (for pretty much the same reasons I did) you seem a lot more willing to cooperate.

just gonna point out that this is getting obv-town

i know he was catching up on a lot of pages but still, bubba's wall solidified my scum-read on him.
he didn't interact with much in any meaningful way and continued to be rather obtuse about reads in the game. that's a scum catch-up wall

[Maxous]

Why would scum bother catching up in a game where they have no pressure on them?

-___-
do you expect him to prod-dodge his way to lylo?

If Luka gets lynched and flips scum

he won't.
Luca Blight (4): Dr Pants, Paschendale, Nobody Special, Dessew
fist 2 are obv-town, guess ns could be scum there, dessew is a town-read from very early but i haven't paid much attention to lately. i should prob re-check
him.

"didn't interact with much in a meaningful way" "Rather obtruse about reads" >

Provided reads when asked for them

.

the point in a nutshell. you didn't volunteer/clarify reads, you had to be directly asked to provide them.

"that's a scum catch up wall" Oh so because I had to catch up I'm scum? Really dude? Is this because I made you my third scum read for no reason? Is this you're way of freaking out but trying to not make it look suspicious?

a catch up wall

made

by scum.
and suggesting that i'm only attacking you because you kinda called me scum previously is just disingenuous

#670 is quite a stretch. i really should re-visit why reinoe is calling NM scum.

[Maxous]

not like i've never seen a fully town-driven mislynch
scum reads are reinoe + bubba

[Maxous]

He might not prod-dodge but I don't see them

putting that much effort into reads if they were scum when they could have easily just done nothing and gotten away with it.

he didn't interact with much in any meaningful way and continued to be rather obtuse about reads in the game. that's a scum catch-up wall

yes monkeyman, that was basically my point...glad you agree it's scummy

~~

Maxous has repeatedly been told his reasons for waggoning me are shit

by who? you?
it doesn't count when

you're

the one saying it
i assume by me calling a "scumteam" you are referring to yourself and bubba ( i never actually labelled you guys scumbuddies but i digress).
you said it makes no sense..why does you being scum with bubba make no sense?
and more, lemme quote your read of bubba back to you:

townish
I like bubbajack's style. He responds to comments the way I think I would. In Particular post 331, 337, 434, and 457

"townish". that doesn't look like a lot of confidence in bubba-town...you're stating that i'm pushing 'mislynches' by attacking him.

~

Of course, he's not exactly on the ball

p confident you're on the mislynch.

[Maxous]

I found it odd how Maxous said I was obvtown without pushing another lynch or trying to influence it in any way

apart from my

tunnelling

apparently

[Maxous]

VOTE: Maxous

lawl.
shouldn't you be looking for scum on the luca wagon?

[Maxous]

@Nobody Special

: do you think scum-team no-killing last night was a viable/clever strategy?

[Maxous]

pretty interesting.

vote:bubbajack8

might be ok with monkeyman lynch, lemme re-check him later

[Maxous]

Maxous is funny. I am not scum.

bit forced here bud, i don't see how 'i will review this player' is funny at all.

So Dessew/Maxous/Not_Mafia scum team.

You should all sheep me on these three wagons while I take us to victory. Lets start with Dessew though because they are newly discovered scum.

and i think i remember you pulling this on luca, saying we should sheep you to a scum lynch. he flips town and you STILL pull this nonsense??
again...feels a bit forced.

Show me where town has done it Not_Mafia.

furthermore, i would like an example of scum commenting on a night-kill that you have seen in a game.

~~

@dr.pants: why did you completely blow off the question is #757...?

~~

Luca Blight

(6): Dr Pants, Paschendale, Nobody Special, Dessew, MonkeyMan, Not_Mafia
reinoe (1):

Maxous

Not_Mafia (1): reinoe
MonkeyMan (1):

Luca Blight

Nobody Special (1): bubbajack8

i don't think all 3 scum were on the luca wagon. if reinoe is town, which i'm thinking he could actually be here given recent posts, bubba is prolly scum. add that to his general play (look back at his day 1 regarding kush + marquis) and it's worth the lynch imo

[Maxous]

Bubba is definitely pushing hard for targets and not backing it up, and the victims of his ire have all been town thus far.

yep.
he strongly attacked kush for confusion over the set-up and when marquis tried to be a voice of reason bubba attacked him as the scumbuddy of kush.
it looked bad at the time - i beleive i mentioned that - but given they both flipped town it looks even worse
add to this, that I think Nobody special could be town and well,

[Maxous]

You say he hasn't done enough to help, but "doing a lot" hasn't actually helped us at all so far.

what.

[Maxous]

oh monkeyman

here
this is me, in my previous game ~as town~ commenting on a surprising night-kill and not drawing immediate conclusions

[Maxous]

:smh:

i'll re-read this whole thread 2moro

[Maxous]

i am so sorry that i haven't done that read-thorugh yet..or much of anything at all.
skimming through and in general - dr.pants and pasch are my two town reads.
that leaves 4 with 3 scum. NM and dessew lookin the worst, not sure about NS + reinoe.
that's where i'm at.
dessew daring reinoe to vote him is interesting..i'll re-check how strong his read of reinoe is, but iirc it's not at the point where he would be THAT convinced
hopefully 2moro i'll actually do stuff

[Maxous]

so practically everybody is calling myself and dr.pants town.

..yeah i'm getting p confident pants is town here, i think the scum have written us off as mislynches and gonna focus on getting one of the remaining two options.

[Maxous]

skimming ISO's, just doing quick checks of possible buddy connections.
something that stands out to me firstly is that Reinoe/Aegor is probably town because their associations with practically everyone in the game are rather good..as in "not buddies"

other thing that is that i felt a hint of dessew-NM as possible buddies. methinks it's possible dessew has been chainsaw defending NM
not finished yet though

[Maxous]

must check a completed scum-game of pasch's 2moro but..dude's ISO looks town, idk

that would leave Dessew-NM-NS.

might be it

[Maxous]

What do you think of his NS flip flop?

:shrug:
it's not like pasch was hard-core defending NS as town...it was more of an attack on luca + bubba. ( i guess maybe pasch could of agressively protecting his buddy )

pretty curious why you're asking me this though

[Maxous]

Maxous and dr pants, you both have some town cred

. Would you be willing to lynch dessew today? If not why not.

considering it.
it will likely be himself or not_mafia, unless something changes.
what is the bold about? why are you mentioning 'town cred'?

[Maxous]

both of the votes look bad

[Maxous]

yes.
but reinoe also

immediately

locked it into a 1 vs 1 by voting back which is not great at all..looked panicked

[Maxous]

but regarding dessew, i think dr. pants mentioned how he is acting over-confident of reinoe-scum based on the thoughts he has shared in the thread and that vote certainly came across like that

[Maxous]

it's gonna be either reinoe or me.

why?

[Maxous]

Pfft... I'm starting to get bored with this. You see, when a townie is voting an other townie, to quicklynch, scum have to be 1. all online 2. aware of the other's being online 3. aware of the other's having noticed the opening 4. extremely coordinated or sure that the voting player isn't around.

yes.
which is why your insistence that the game is at a 1 vs 1 state when scum would need a

3 man quickhammer

is weird.

NM's vote on nobody special is actually quite scummy. i don't see the rhyme + reasoning behind it all

[Maxous]

So you don't see why I'd be scumreading NS for his active lurking and refusal to contribute?

it seems i misread something.
:shrug:

we still have over 6.5 days ~ gonna chill for a bit to see if a L-2 quickhammer comes.

[Maxous]

meh.
we were just out-played.
well done guys