Open 561: Farmer's Market (Game Over)

[The Bulge]

VOTE: don_johnson for strategizing. Clearly mafia WIFOM lynch this scum please.

[The Bulge]

No matter how we play it, two nights where we either 1) prevent a night-kill or 2) expose scum. The list method is easiest. Make sure everybody is on board before night, because if anyone (town) messes up they'll be assumed scum and we'll have a mislynch.
On that note, the only way this can work is if we disregard all excuses. If somebody doesn't follow the plan, we have to assume they are scum.

[The Bulge]

@Mod: Perhaps a mass-prod is in order? Once you get the time of course. Just a reminder to everyone (only 6/11 have posted) that Day 1 has begun. I want this game to start and the inactivity makes me sad.

[The Bulge]

giving the fruit to the guy below would be dangerous to town, if by chance one mafia is below the other mafia in the list.

We should think about this some more.

This isn't necessarily a disadvantage.
If everyone claims to have received fruit and there was still a kill, then we know scum are next to each other on the list.

[The Bulge]

VOTE: don_johnson for strategizing. Clearly mafia WIFOM lynch this scum please.

Aha! A Newbie early-bussing his partner is it?

PEDIT - Well, one scum below the other scum is advantageous to scum, if we do the 'give the fruit to the guy below'. the top mafia does the killing. the bottow mafia just pretend to have received fruit.

Just to make it clear, I'm not a newbie. I played on this site in 2011 but left with a fairly bad rep for flaking. I've since abandoned my former main account.

Instead of making it compulsory for everyone to give fruits, why not make it optional.

That way we have something way better than two no-night kills: Information.

This doesn't make any sense. Stop trying to de-rail our plans.
VOTE: hayato

[The Bulge]

@TSO & Bulge

Have you really made some thought on what would have happend if we let people optionally give fruit? If so, why doesn't it make any sense?

Assuming you mean go with the list order plan but don't make it mandatory...
1) It's a waste of fruit for people who do decide to give.
2) It only works as process of elimination and gives us nothing conclusive.
3) It is incredibly easy for mafia to work around it (ie, take turns killing)
4) It won't stop any night kills.

We're making it compulsive.

[The Bulge]

@TSO & Bulge

Have you really made some thought on what would have happend if we let people optionally give fruit? If so, why doesn't it make any sense?

Assuming you mean go with the list order plan but don't make it mandatory...
1) It's a waste of fruit for people who do decide to give.
2) It only works as process of elimination and gives us nothing conclusive.
3) It is incredibly easy for mafia to work around it (ie, take turns killing)
4) It won't stop any night kills.

We're making it compulsive.

1) If Scum kills that Night, those who give fruits can't be scum together. One scum is confirmed in the group which didn't give fruits.
If Scum don't kill, we have prevented a Night Kill, *without* giving as much fruits. Those fruits can be used until N4 or N5.

2) Your plan does not give us anything conclusive either.

3) Elaborate please.

4) It could. If mafia doesn't have the balls.

1) Scum can lie about giving fruit. Read the setup. You are not informed of how much fruit you received. Multiple people can give to the same player and the recipient won't be notified of it.
2) In some cases it would. If scum decides to kill during a fruit night.
3) It's pretty self-explanatory. If it's not mandatory to give fruit, scum doesn't have to provide any excuses as to why they didn't give.
4) Your "could" is far weaker than our "could".

Sorry for any typos, I'm on mobile with an annoying autocorrect.

[The Bulge]

About your plan, not quite. Any two where one gave fruit to the other CAN be scum together because the first kills and claims giving fruit to the second.

So yeah, I'd say it should be optional if we lynch mafia today but not otherwise.

About my vote, I distrust everyone on your wagon. Votes for something that is obviously dependent on playstyle instead of alignment is horrible for town, and bulge is pushing you the most suspiciously.

I'm not pushing for his lynch, I'm pushing my plan.
Also, isn't voting for me based on only this also dependent on playstyle instead of alignment?

[The Bulge]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheBuldge

@TSO and Aronis
Are you also voting for me to further your plan or is it because you think I'm scum? If it's the latter why?

I'm not voting you to "further my plan", I'm voting you because I think you are scum. Where did this assumption come from? Your plan makes it easier for scum early-game, so I think you are scum. It's that simple. This is nothing but OMGUS.

[The Bulge]

I don't know about ashura, but Marcrell and Aeronaut are active right now and have posted on the site since the beginning of the game. They need to get their asses in here.

[The Bulge]

"I'm not pushing for his lynch" does not mean I have no intention. It just means that I'm not currently doing that because we were discussing plans at the time. Obviously I want him lynched. Voting me for not actively pushing my vote is once again playing against my playstyle, not my alignment.

[The Bulge]

Siveuere: in the mean time why the bulge?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheBuldge

@TSO and Aronis
Are you also voting for me to further your plan or is it because you think I'm scum? If it's the latter why?

These posts are 10 posts apart. Going from "Why the Bulge?" to a vote and then immediately making a case against me.

I'm not voting you to "further my plan", I'm voting you because I think you are scum. Where did this assumption come from? Your plan makes it easier for scum early-game, so I think you are scum. It's that simple.

Normally, if you think a person is scum, you would want to push for his lynch don't you?

I'm not voting you to "further my plan", I'm voting you because I think you are scum. Where did this assumption come from? Your plan makes it easier for scum early-game, so I think you are scum. It's that simple. This is nothing but OMGUS.

I'm not pushing for his lynch, I'm pushing my plan.
Also, isn't voting for me based on only this also dependent on playstyle instead of alignment?

So you're voting without pushing for a lynch? Instead, you're pushing your plan? Why exactly aren't you trying to lynch him if you think he's scum?

As I mentioned, I wasn't pushing for a lynch at the time because we were still discussing night plans.
Now I'm pushing and making a case. I hope you're happy.

I'm not pushing for his lynch, I'm pushing my plan.
Also, isn't voting for me based on only this also dependent on playstyle instead of alignment?

This is nothing but OMGUS.

I never said, I think you're scum though.

No you don't, Siveure does. You're piggybacking off his logic.

Here's what points to you being mafia.

1) Your "playstyle" seems to be trying to keep us with no player information, which is indicative of scum. We lose out a lot by discussing how we use the fruit all day then having to compromise deadline lynch, and you seem to have 0 intention of talking about anything but the fruit.
2) You've decided he's scum to be lynched really fast.

1) I really don't see where you're going with this "don't waste time on night plans" thing. We have another week and a half before night, and town night plans are extremely crucial to this setup. We can't go into the night without a good plan that everyone agrees on.
2) This is a blatant contradiction. You were just criticizing me for NOT pushing a lynch, and now all of the sudden I want a "really fast" lynch? Bullshit.

[The Bulge]

All that being said, I don't think Siveure is scum. I do, however, think hayato is mafia piggybacking off of town logic to get me lynched and save his own ass.

PEDIT (Siveure): How is that any different from every other person who voted anyone?
Of course he doesn't, because he's scum and he knows I'm town.

[The Bulge]

Votecount 1.0

innocentvillager (1) -

mathbandit

hayatoBL (2) -

T S O, The Bulge

mathbandit (3) -

don_johnson, Siveure DtTrikyp, hayatoBL

Not Voting (5) -

Marcrell, Aronis, innocentvillager, ashura525, Aeronaut

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

[The Bulge]

Assuming you mean go with the list order plan but don't make it mandatory...

1) Scum can lie about giving fruit. Read the setup. You are not informed of how much fruit you received. Multiple people can give to the same player and the recipient won't be notified of it.

This is weird. When you look back, TSO and I both completely misunderstood hayato's plan. Bulge didn't initially then DID in his later post? What?

I don't understand this... what are you trying to say? That I didn't understand at first, or that I did? Either way, how is this so strange?

Because everything looks like it could have come from scum-bulge.

Good reasoning A+

yea yea OMGUS whatever
VOTE: Siveure
I don't like how he's been posting lately and I'm pretty sure he's scum. More to come when I have time.

[The Bulge]

I really hate that vote.

Nothing I didn't expect. Hence the "yea yea OMGUS whatever". But I'm not gonna let the possible threat of being targetted stop me from voting who I think is scum.

[The Bulge]

I don't have as much time right now as I would have liked. But if you insist. Gimme a sec to put it together.

[The Bulge]

Spoiler: Part I - The Night Strategy

I know you guys are tired of talking about this so I'll be brief.

I still think doing the fruit-circle on two nights is the optimal strategy, we just gotta work out which nights.

Anyway, the best we can hope for is we prevent two night kills at night. That means we have to win in the day. Everyone post once that they're on board for targeting below them (i'm on aronis), then we shut up about it because it's taking up space needlessly.

I was thinking about this, and it's risky. And it's also a bit silly. I was focusing on getting an extra lynch and it's pretty much impossible.

Hayato, what about the information an extra lynch would give? What about the information we get from the people who would have died? "Information" is so nebulous it's not really worth it.

I think he actually believes his strategy is optimal. I really don't think he realizes our strategy is optimal and is trying to get us to do something suboptimal as scum. His proposal is completely alignment neutral.

I kinda see what hayato is planning.

But yeah, I say we just run it the other way. There aren't enough people who get it for us to not just get wiped out at night and screwed over.

Up to this point, Siveure has made it quite clear which plan he's more keen on using. Note that this plan is clearly much harder for scum to get around. I shouldn't have to explain why, but just in case, here we go. The original plan is simply
1) everyone passes fruit to a designated target (person below is easiest way to do this)
2) if there is a night-kill, lynch anyone who claims to have screwed up in order to keep the plan airtight. Zero tolerance.
Hayato's plan leaves the door waaaay open for scum to lie and exploit the flaws in the plan. Benefits are that (if played well) we get information over more nights, but this simply does not outweigh the advantage it could give scum.

I think by this point we have to go with hayato's plan because we aren't finding scum atm. Also, unfailing fruit circle plan IS a subset of hayato's plan, so yeah.

But wait! Suddenly, we should go with hayato's plan? All for the sake of not wasting time? But weren't more people on board with the original plan?

yes.

And doesn't hayato's plan benefit scum?

yes.

And doesn't this sudden switch of opinions seem terribly lazy?

it should.

What I strongly believe happened here is this. As scum, Siveure had no choice but to go along with the town's plans. When hayato posted an alternate plan, Siveure looked at it and realized the plan would be better... for him, at least. But he couldn't instantly jump to the new plan without raising suspicion against himself, so he stuck to the original plan and waited for an opportunity to "give up" and just go with hayato's. Convenient.

(

Note:

the original proposition of a plan that helped scum was the cause of my initial suspicion for hayato as well)

Spoiler: Part II - Case against The Bulge

(Hey that's me!)

Anyway looking at the people who jumped onto the wagon.

VOTE: the bulge

It starts here. Obviously. Doesn't bother me too much because ok, fair enough, wagons can be scummy. Still wondering what makes me scummier than the other two, though...

About my vote, I distrust everyone on your wagon. Votes for something that is obviously dependent on playstyle instead of alignment is horrible for town, and bulge is pushing you the most suspiciously.

Oh now I get it! I'm scum because... I followed through with my vote?

I'm not voting you to "further my plan", I'm voting you because I think you are scum. Where did this assumption come from? Your plan makes it easier for scum early-game, so I think you are scum. It's that simple. This is nothing but OMGUS.

I'm not pushing for his lynch, I'm pushing my plan.
Also, isn't voting for me based on only this also dependent on playstyle instead of alignment?

So you're voting without pushing for a lynch? Instead, you're pushing your plan? Why exactly aren't you trying to lynch him if you think he's scum?

But I thought I was scum for backing myself up? Now you want me to give more proof? Hm.
Also, there's nothing wrong with voting without explicitly pushing for a lynch, especially this early in the game.

Here's what points to you being mafia.

1) Your "playstyle" seems to be trying to keep us with no player information, which is indicative of scum. We lose out a lot by discussing how we use the fruit all day then having to compromise deadline lynch, and you seem to have 0 intention of talking about anything but the fruit.
2) You've decided he's scum to be lynched really fast.

I still stand by the fact that these are weak-ass reasons. Night actions are extremely important, and we hadn't decided on anything. Only scum would want strategy discussion to stop.

Bulge might be scum I'm just worried I could be confbiasing it because some of his stuff weirds me out.

Glad you acknowledge your reasons are weak. "Weird" is not a scumtell. It is, believe it or not, a playstyle issue. If I'm not mistaken

I'm not

, you strongly advocated against voting based on playstyle. And this is exactly what you're doing here.

Assuming you mean go with the list order plan but don't make it mandatory...

1) Scum can lie about giving fruit. Read the setup. You are not informed of how much fruit you received. Multiple people can give to the same player and the recipient won't be notified of it.

This is weird. When you look back, TSO and I both completely misunderstood hayato's plan. Bulge didn't initially then DID in his later post? What?

Still don't understand this at all. See my last post.

Also, bulge just looks like scum to me.

VOTE: The Bulge

lol

If you want to be playing the game where we find scum and lynch them, i've found scum with bulge, help me lynch him?

lol

Because everything looks like it could have come from scum-bulge.

lol

[The Bulge]

There's nothing that can really be said in reply to any of this post except for one part.

Here's what points to you being mafia.

1) Your "playstyle" seems to be trying to keep us with no player information, which is indicative of scum. We lose out a lot by discussing how we use the fruit all day then having to compromise deadline lynch, and you seem to have 0 intention of talking about anything but the fruit.
2) You've decided he's scum to be lynched really fast.

I still stand by the fact that these are weak-ass reasons. Night actions are extremely important, and we hadn't decided on anything. Only scum would want strategy discussion to stop.

Oh, Now I see why you ran the two spoilers. This makes NO sense next to what you said in the other one. I was "waiting for the opportunity to jump onto hayato's plan." Where does this opportunity come from if the strategy discussion stops?

Actually, there's no contradiction here.
flaw in your logic =/= flaw in my logic.
Basically what I'm saying is it is entirely possible that you sought to end discussion without realizing that this would effectively ruin your plan to switch night action plans, and you are now attributing this logical flaw to me and using it to tear apart my case. I can't be sure of this, of course. And it does sound a little farfetched.
But it's still not a contradiction for one painfully obvious reason: it happened. You complained and urged to stop discussion, and yet you still ended up getting the opportunity to switch plan ideas. If the discussion had stopped earlier, you could easily have flipped earlier.
Oh and if you must know, I used the spoilers because I thought they looked nice and clean.

PEDIT: No, after rereading and reevaluating, I have a town read on hayato.

[The Bulge]

Hayato, we'll have 10 people tonight. If we make giving fruit optional we could get some people not using their fruit, we get some people recieving fruit from many people (some of which could be scum lying), and we could get one scum claiming to give fruit to the other. Sure there's some information in there, but there's a shit-ton of noise as well, so it's incredibly unlikely we get any useful information.

However, one mafia by themselves has issues. If we do get a mafia lynch today we can make it optional, I think.

About your plan, not quite. Any two where one gave fruit to the other CAN be scum together because the first kills and claims giving fruit to the second.

So yeah, I'd say it should be optional if we lynch mafia today but not otherwise.

So I was making it absolutely clear I wanted the compulsory plan and then I swapped out of nowhere?

VOTE: The Bulge

VOTE: The Bulge

VOTE: The Bulge

What does this prove? Both of those have the condition "if we lynch scum today", a requirement which we have not yet met.

[The Bulge]

VOTE: Siveure

I see no reason to keep you alive if you won't cooperate. We'd just end up lynching you anyways.

Now you are throwing a temper tantrum? Jesus.

L-1.

And I agree, scum or not, Siv's acting like a child.

Pretty sure #178 was a joke.
But that's not to say Siv is being at all cooperative.

[The Bulge]

At everyone

....are we all on board with the decision to give fruit to the person below us in the list in Post 0?

Not sure if I really need to confirm but yes I am on board with this.

[The Bulge]

From the wiki:

Factional communication: During the

night phase

you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].

[The Bulge]

At this point, I cannot lynch Siv and expect him to flip scum. It's just too easy.

So, I shall. . .

VOTE: hayato

Why did you suddenly support the Siv wagon?

This vote isn't doing anything.

I'm curious to hear from TSO who has been actively posting elsewhere on the site but not much here.
@TSO - where do you stand on the Siveure case?

We can't end this day until we're sure everyone is on board with the plan. I'm not sure when Robo will be completely available, but we shouldn't end the day until we get some prods/reps. One person failing to give fruit could ruin the whole plan and potentially lead to mislynch.

[The Bulge]

Uh.

You know what, I actually want to self-hammer here.

Just so I can have a point made at the end of the day that'll hopefully stick. I can't see any other way to make you look at what I'm saying after I die.

Just saw vote count, will

Vote: Siv

per my earlier post. HE IS NOW AT L-1.

This sequence is baaaaad. We're not ready to end.
If Siveure flips town, I could definitely see mathbandit scum.
Although come to think of it, they could be scum together trying to coordinate a quick self-hammer to avoid further discussion.
To be safe... UNVOTE: Siveure

[The Bulge]

I don't expect any rational player to self-hammer as Town. As far as I'm concerned, that's much more likely to be Scum-fueled if he feels he cannot avoid being lynched. I was very clear before the VC was posted that I was interested in voting him pending the result of said VC, an appeal to emotion like that certainly is not going to dissuade me from doing so.

It doesn't matter if he's scum. What matters is that we're not ready to end the day.

[The Bulge]

EBWOP - I should add, however, that you are correct. There is absolutely no town motivation behind a self-hammer at this point.

[The Bulge]

It doesn't matter if he's scum. What matters is that we're not ready to end the day.

[The Bulge]

Also yeah, I just want to self-hammer. I don't really want to self-hammer NOW.

VOTE: Mathbandit

Ninja'd. Ignore my last post.

[The Bulge]

I have updated the OP to reflect replacements. The living players list shows ONLY the currently active player in that slot and not the replacement.

That VC should be accurate, feel free to tell me I'm wrong if your vote is misplaced. I would like to remind people to try and get their vote tags instead of just bolding. It's so much easier to miss on the mafBlack skin.

As for the question about Mafia Daytalk, no the mafia do not have the ability to discuss during the day. They only have night talk.

That should be everything, prods might be needed to be passed out soon so let's do our best to keep this game up and running alright? Thanks guys, Robo Out.

[The Bulge]

So you read this. You noticed this.

And yet you post this?

Although come to think of it, they could be scum together trying to coordinate a quick self-hammer to avoid further discussion.

Not sure what to make of it.

Scum get chat pre-game. It's still a possibility that it was pre-organized. But that's all it is. A possibility. I never said I believed it.

I don't expect any rational player to self-hammer as Town. As far as I'm concerned, that's much more likely to be Scum-fueled if he feels he cannot avoid being lynched. I was very clear before the VC was posted that I was interested in voting him pending the result of said VC, an appeal to emotion like that certainly is not going to dissuade me from doing so.

It doesn't matter if he's scum. What matters is that we're not ready to end the day.

I'm not going to avoid putting a suspected Scum at L-1 out of fear of a self-hammer. That's ridiculous.

How is that ridiculous? How many times do I have to say it? We're fucked if we go into night right now, unprepared. Why is putting him at L-1 so important to you?

[The Bulge]

Not voting =/= going out of your way

[The Bulge]

What happened to the Siv lynch
Can somebody please point out one post that makes him less scummy. I don't see it.
That being said, I might do a quick ISO of everybody. Reset my reads I guess. There's probably some Siv bias there just because I've been on his case for so long.

[The Bulge]

Also I should note that these ISOs will likely not be done any time soon because I'm pretty busy this weekend. Nothing V/LA-worthy, but busy nonetheless.

[The Bulge]

What happened to the Siv lynch
Can somebody please point out one post that makes him less scummy. I don't see it.

Said the guy who unvoted him. WTF?

In case you've forgotten, I unvoted him because I didn't want a hammer.

[The Bulge]

In case you've forgotten, I unvoted him because I didn't want a hammer.

And then you complain about his wagon stalling.

Going from L-1 to only 2 votes is a little more than stalling. From what I'm reading in recent posts, a Siv lynch today is unlikely.
We don't have a deadline. We have two players replacing out. If we start night now, there will be no plan tonight.

[The Bulge]

Why is everyone so impatient...

[The Bulge]

Relax. I'm almost never going to have weekend access at this point.

Anyways, I don't understand why Bulge is so keen to avoid even the possibility that someone might be lynched. I'm not sure what might be motivating it, but it does seem odd that we're two weeks into the game and he doesn't even want to consider lynching anyone.

I was hoping to have everyone confirm the plan in thread, because for the plan to be effective, we need everyone. But with levels of activity lately, I don't see this happening, and I honestly don't care anymore.
Ugh but now we're not even close to a lynch...
VOTE: TSO

[The Bulge]

I don't see why the TSO lynch is a thing.

Like, nearly EVERYONE is disinterested in this game, they can't all be scum. At least the guys posting without reading are posting something.

It's not "a thing"... He has one vote on him. I put it there for pressure.
UNVOTE:
Honestly, looking through his meta, TSO is scum in a lot of his games and doesn't seem to be inactive or lurky in completed games. So I don't think he would be this disinterested as scum. It's certainly not enough to clear him, but his slot is leaning town.

[The Bulge]

I really like IceGuy's introduction. Welcome, IceGuy!
neil, I'm not entirely sure about. Welcome anyway!
Sorry, I should have said this in thread, I'm pretty swamped with summer school homework lately, and a game this inactive is just not high on my priority list (no offense to our wonderful mod or other players). That being said, if we can get this day somewhere remotely close to an end, that would be perfect.

Agreed. So many people have been, "Oh, I'll make a case on Math" or "I'll look at Math." But nothing ever happens.

I think we all need to do this. As it stands right now, it seems like the most viable lynch, but we need to be sure it's the right one.

With replacements coming in and activity slowly picking back up, we should aim for a day end asap because this is getting ridiculous. The fruit below plan is sounding like our official plan, so we'll go with that for sure. Replacements will make it easier to ensure everybody is on board.

[The Bulge]

Hmm what if...
VOTE: don_johnson
Gimme a sec.

[The Bulge]

Ok so there's not much specific that jumps out particularly because honestly there's not a lot to look at. Here are a couple small things that bug me along with my overall feel.

hm. if 120 checks out fact wise, then I'd say its a good post. I hate sorting out walls though.

fitz: long time no see. what do you make of this nonsense and where do you sit on the fruit plans?

This seems like a lazy wagon-push. He endorses the case, but never jumps on it.

neil: I've been hoping to get time to put the mathbandit case together, but my initial vote stems from early on. give the thread a read and tell me what you think.

One thing that always bugs me when

anyone

does it is "I think this person is scum. Now everyone tell me why I'm right." This is a big scum-tell in my books. It shows lack of dedication to actually putting together a full case (hint: they know their target is actually town). And then when he does end up putting something together, we get...

mathbandit. the case. I wish I had the time to sift through all of this. #87 is what confirmed it to me. the innocentvillager vote just seems a poor reaction to the recent three votes against himself. with part of the reasoning being "inactivity" which is a cop out on page four, and the other being "not observant of the mechanics, just mere posts after defending someone for having a different opinion on theory. just seems like a "shit, I'm getting found out, better brush it off and cast suspicion elsewhere" type post. that is really the crux of my original case. reread that couple of pages and tell me what you think given that context.

Lazy lazy lazy. The exchange of retorts in the posts following this are equally lazy and opportunistic. It's not much to go on, but honestly he's my top read right now.

[The Bulge]

I get that it's a legit reason. Being a lazy motherfucker myself, I can respect that. But I still don't think things should be let go with only that as an excuse. I'm not saying the lazy excuse is scummy, I'm just saying scum can use it easily and we can't let it slide.

[The Bulge]

Whoops. Sorry about that. Lost track of how long it had been since I posted.
I'll read and stuff when I get home this afternoon (I'm on my phone right now). Summer school finishes this Thursday so I'll be more active after that.

[The Bulge]

My favourite part of this is the extra nights. The one major downside of the original "everyone pass" plan was the time limit. We would have had two days to safely scumhunt. As much as I've openly advocated for the original plan this whole time, if nobody finds any problems with this AND if siv flips scum, I like this plan.

[The Bulge]

I could be wrong, but I understood it as

1 passes to 2
2 passes to 3
...
5 passes to 1

[The Bulge]

*10 people. Lynch today.

[The Bulge]

What about myself, neil, and TSO-slot?

You town-read my top two scum reads (siv and don) and I don't like that but what can I do.

And about the Bins read... did you not read the last couple pages? She proposed a new plan. I that's not taking a stance, idk what is.

[The Bulge]

Oops. Should have previewed.

[The Bulge]

In the case of a scum-flip (regardless of who we end up lynching), are we agreed on Bins' plan then?

[The Bulge]

L-2, by my count. You unvoted.
Also I thought I had my vote on him but I don't, so I can hammer if that's what we're doing.

[The Bulge]

Hi

I've played this setup once

Havent caught up yet tho

Weren't you the scum that won it last time?

[The Bulge]

Here. Marathon weekend too addicting.

Why do you insist on self-hammering?

Pairing plan sounds good.

[The Bulge]

Finally. Am I good to hammer?

[The Bulge]

Somebody post the night plan. I'm a bit confused. Do we do pairs regardless of flip?

[The Bulge]

Alrighty.

VOTE: Siv

Das a wrap. This day was too long.

[The Bulge]

IF SIV FLIPS TOWN

Pass to the person below you on the list. Bottom of the list passes to top.

IF SIV FLIPS SCUM

Pass to your partner, listed in groups below.

Xayzeck
havingfitz

Aronis
IceGuy

The Bulge
don_johnson

Neil113
mathbandit

Formerfish
Bins

[The Bulge]

I'VE BEEN LIED TO HELP

what what dammit i don't know why was I trusted to do that

Ok somebody post the real plan i don't know what to believe anymore. It's too late for this shit

[The Bulge]

Okay, the weird contradiction I saw earlier.

Assuming you mean go with the list order plan but don't make it mandatory...

1) It's a waste of fruit for people who do decide to give.
2) It only works as process of elimination and gives us nothing conclusive.
3) It is incredibly easy for mafia to work around it (ie, take turns killing)
4) It won't stop any night kills.

We're making it compulsive.

Okay, so bulge correctly notices that hayato wants fruit circle with everyone choosing whether to give or not.

1) Scum can lie about giving fruit. Read the setup. You are not informed of how much fruit you received. Multiple people can give to the same player and the recipient won't be notified of it.

2) In some cases it would. If scum decides to kill during a fruit night.
3) It's pretty self-explanatory. If it's not mandatory to give fruit, scum doesn't have to provide any excuses as to why they didn't give.
4) Your "could" is far weaker than our "could".

Sorry for any typos, I'm on mobile with an annoying autocorrect.

And with fruit circle, how does multiple fruit happen?

Pedit: yeah fair enough go with ice on this. I'm gonna hammer before deadline if nobody else does, but other probably should deadline hammer as well - I might not be active, even assuming I'm town.

I don't understand the contradiction. I don't see it...

[The Bulge]

When Siv dies, your number will change.

1. Xayzeck T S O
2 havingfitz Marcrell
3 Aronis
4 IceGuy innocentvillager
5 The Bulge
6 don_johnson
7 Neil113 hayatoBL
8 mathbandit
9 Formerfish ashura525*
10 Bins Aeronaut

fix this it hurts mine eyes with replacements and prods

[The Bulge]

Upon a Siveure DtTrikyp scum lynch...

Xayzeck

passes to havingfitz.

Aronis

passes to IceGuy.

The Bulge

passes to don_johnson.

neil1113

passes to mathbandit.

Formerfish

passes to Bins.

Remaining players

DO NOT PASS.

Failure to conform to the plan will result in your lynch, zero tolerance. If you are town, you are causing a mislynch. Don't do it.

[The Bulge]

Because extra clarity is important.

[The Bulge]

WOO!

Finally. Why ya gotta kill me N1. That was hell to wait for the ending.

[The Bulge]

Is the scumteam willing to release their QT/PT?

I guess Edgey doesn't care because he just replaced in, and I highly doubt Aronis is still following the game...

[The Bulge]

Scum QT/PT?