Open 567 - Pick Your POWERRRR!!! - Abandoned

[hephaestus]

VOTE: Venrob

[hephaestus]

What if the scums have "dispersed" their drafts, like one is 2/3/4 or something like that, one is in that 8/9/10 zone and the third one is 10+?
Eg. the Vengeful role is definitely more useful for the scums and it wasn't chosen too early in the previous games. The same goes for the Rolecop (though as far as I know the Backup role was chosen instead of that one). For a bad draft they still can have 1-Shot Commuter, I suppose.

Am I wrong about my logic?

This makes sense to me actually. If I were scum, I'd probably go two small numbers to gamble for the better powers and one high one to guarantee a single pick and a place somewhere on the middle of the list.

I also kind of agree with Anatole that we can't read too much into the numbers, but really for getting the game started I don't see a problem speculating. I don't think once the game has taken off and someone looks scummy, their place on the list is going to give them a free pass. For now I think it's safe to say scum went for the PRs rather than trying to use their picks to conceal themselves.

Anyway I picked 4 because I thought no one else would be stupid enough to do so tbh

[hephaestus]

@Toby, Aafter, Haephaestus, Siveure: What was (and is) your case against Venrob (if you had any at all)?

It was a semi-RVS vote just meant to insert myself into the game when I didn't have time to really contribute.
I did notice he seemed kind of eager to jump on Anatole, which seemed suspicious to me mostly because of him actually being one of the 3 numbers gameplay said to find suspicious - could be an attempt to deflect.

Anyway I'm comfortable keeping my vote there until it gets a response from Venrob

@Everyone: while I was waiting for the gamestart (before my V/LA) I analysed the chosen role preferences a bit. Would it help if I told something about it? Or should I keep it to myself because it would only help the rolefishing of the scums?

If you think that's a risk I'd say keep it to yourself until it becomes relevant in a way that can help us catch scum, like once people have flipped/claimed?

[hephaestus]

Gameplay, why do you think scum would pick lower numbers more than town would?

Here is how I think. Scum know each other. Thus if they bet on small numbers all, most probably at least one of them will get high on the draft and get the role they need. Town would also like to get power roles but unlike scum they would be more cautious in the numbers they pick. Thus they would pick higher numbers so that they won't get dublicated. At least that is how I feel. And that is exactly why I bet on the 8,9.
But yeah there are obviosly a lot of ways this can go. That is why my logic can be wrong.

See, this is all just theorizing without any evidence. There is nothing that inherently makes a certain number or group of numbers more scummy or more likely to be picked by scum.

I am town and picked 8.

If I was scum I would have picked 8.

I'm sure there were other players who, like me, had no idea how the number/draft stuff worked and just sent in a random number that didn't seem real popular.

This entire game is based on theorizing without evidence tbh. Almost anything can technically be done by either town or scum, but we theorize about the motivations of others and how their actions might make them scum.

You fail to acknowledge that scum was working as one team and could pick THREE numbers rather than one. It's not that ridiculous to assume they coordinated their choices in some way.

As I said I agree with you that there's no way to draw definite conclusions from the draft order but your objections seem defensive AND trying to stall discussion. FoS

@Anatole, gameplay: did this animosity between the two of you carry over from another game?

[hephaestus]

It's pointless to try to lynch someone based on this - as pointless as lynching people based on their usernames. I doubt you would find it suspicious if I argued against that, but there's just as much evidence in favor of scum having names that start with the letter Z as there is for scum to pick X number or to pick in Y pattern as of now.

I can see where you're coming from but this is just not true. Whatever numbers scum picked they were chosen deliberately, whereas player usernames are entirely unrelated to the game

[hephaestus]

Fair enough.

Tbh if Anatole, Salamence and Venrob turn out to be the scum block that would be hilarious

[hephaestus]

Too bad scum dies tonight.

HINTFUCKINGHINTIGOTMYBESTWEAPON

?????
did you just

[hephaestus]

I don't like this at all. Semi RVS is a lame excuse when you have a real reason. It's like you're just trying to defend a weak vote on a bandwagon.

Can't believe I put someone at L-5 before being 100% sure he's scum. I could learn something from you

Heph wrote:?????
did you just

That rolefish...

Hahaha what?? Sala literally just claimed or pretended to claim for no reason at all. I didn't have to rolefish if I wanted to.

[hephaestus]

If Sala didn't want scum to know maybe they shouldn't have advertised it in all caps?

Is this normal?

[hephaestus]

if anyone agrees that it was an obvious softclaim and we should speculate about it, I'm an idiot

Someone tell this guy he's an idiot

[hephaestus]

"please consider this post a null-tell" lol

[hephaestus]

By the way, I saw Aphrodite with Ares yesterday. I think you should keep an eye on her.

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

I can work with this

[hephaestus]

Salamence why are you claiming and what are you talking about regarding this policy stuff?

Everyone, especially those who called me anti-town for acknowledging that Sala has repeatedly claimed a role, why do you not take issue with the actual claim?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salamence

[hephaestus]

I always claim vig.

Wait are you saying you always claim vig regardless of your actual role??

[hephaestus]

It's not about him being close to a lynch or I'd have said something about the other people who voted. It's the semi RVS comment. Why did you feel the need to call it that if you have a reason for voting? I know it's not a strong reason, but can't you just say that?

I made that vote not to put pressure on Venrob or push a lynch on him, but to have an active vote in the game because it helps scumhunting. I'm not on your case for actually using that vote to read me because it's part of it's purpose, but in that sense it

was

an RVS vote. If it wasn't I'd have provided my reasoning along with it. I only shared my line of thinking later on for the sake of transparency.

You don't RVS a guy who has been voted a couple times already unless you are doing it for the sake of bandwagoning like Siv.

You keep using misleading language to suggest there were more than two votes on him at the time. But yeah in fact I do not think concentrating votes is a bad thing.

He was only softclaiming at the time. I guess he is showing off his role now, but at the time there was no reason to point it out.

1) It was practically a hard claim
2) Why is it okay to soft claim for no reason? It's still a claim.
2b) Why is it not okay to call attention to this and how is that role fishing?

[hephaestus]

Heph, what is your experience with this set-up?

To clarify, your experience going into the game and such.

Ahw I thought you were making sure I am having fun

None, btw

[hephaestus]

*pops in quickly*

Had you read about the set-up or anything?

I read the wiki ?

[hephaestus]

A pity that I think Hephaestus is scum, he seems to be a cool person to play with. ^_^

Thanks love

If you got room for another game there's a certain mini needs replacements

[hephaestus]

Tbh Anen I want you to tell me how 135 was not a vig claim

[hephaestus]

-His misrepping my issue with his Venrob vote

Uh no you explicitly took issue with me placing a third vote and ascribed scum motive to that

-His misrepping my take on Sal's claim.

I literally quote you saying there was no reason to address his "soft" claim in the post you're responding to here

My issue with your rolefishing stuff is that you seemed very eager to find out if he was really a vig or not.

Now

this

is what a misrep looks like. Sala had either claimed by that point or not (hint: they had). If they hadn't, there's no way me asking about it would move them to actually claim.

[hephaestus]

Me saying "did you just" = expressing disbelief/confusion and demanding explanation for the

fact

that there had been a completely unwarranted PR claim

[hephaestus]

^

[hephaestus]

The worst ones are the ones that say I wont play with X player.

Um burn did you see the post where gameplay told Anatole to kill himself? I'd think that would warrant a warning

8. Be respectful, if I feel a line has been crossed or it is getting out of hand I will warn you and then if it continues I will modkill you

rather than you shitting on Anatole for replacing out.
Also gameplay replaced in so no he didn't know beforehand

[hephaestus]

Youre not lynching my scumbuddy

?????????

[hephaestus]

I am a rolecop

How is this guy still alive?

VOTE: ZZZX

[hephaestus]

I'm sure I will with y'all greenlighting him to get rid of the one person who doesn't think randomly outing set up info is a town move.

When I flip town lynch Sala pls you're welcome

[hephaestus]

Ugh guys I am so sorry

[hephaestus]

RL has been chaos but I'm pretty sure things have settled down
The good news is I finally have my laptop back as well so nothing should prevent me from being active at this point

Gameplays definitely the scummiest vote on my wagon
Going to do a quick read through of yesterday and organize my reads

[hephaestus]

Again I am really sorry

If there's anything specific i need to address let me know

[hephaestus]

i think i'm town

Just wondering
Did you just say this or did you ISO your slot before picking up your role PM?

[hephaestus]

Jesus tits all the replacements are fucking me up lol

Does this game still have a mod?

[hephaestus]

Regfan is town btw

[hephaestus]

K here we go guys brace yourselves

Townies
Regfan - ok so Z3X turned out to be town but the reasoning behind that wagon was sound and makes no sense as a scum gambit at all. would've turned on regfan way too easily if he were scum and Z had claimed back up. which also means scum regfan would've had to somehow guess that anatole chose town role cop which just doesn't make sense
Saki - genuine frustration at day start
Hershey - also seemed genuine in our interaction yesterday
Elmo - seems town….?
i suck at explaining town reads sry

Null
Aafter - hmm
uctriton - not really leaning one way or the other yet
Aneninen - mild buddying, especially don't like the way he's being apologetic about his votes. but otherwise his play doesn't seem too scummy to me

Scum
Muffin - still in my scum block. I guess reading back I can see Sala just having weird reasoning/playstyle but idk why those things went completely unexamined yesterday. asked for an explanation repeatedly but never got one. don't have a read on muffin individually yet but he hasn't contributed that much and his vote on me was kinda easy tbh.
Flubber - lots of fluff and weird reasoning
gameplay - been going back and forth about him but he has got to be scum. also like i said his vote on me while maintaining that i'm town i mean seriously?

[hephaestus]

Whops forgot Siv! Also null i guess? Could see it go either way.

Is there anyone else I forgot?

P-edit: sorry!

[hephaestus]

Btw did I drink too much wine or do our icons actually look alike a lot?

[hephaestus]

Only willing to lynch from my scum block btw.

Muffin: vig claim completely out of nowhere, refused to engage people (or contribute at all), random flailing about the ZZZ wagon?? but yeah mostly the vig claim.

[hephaestus]

I don't think town would be that eager to reveal set up information. I mean he had third choice so he would've been a good pick for the NK (less likely to be protected than 1 and 2 but likely to be a PR) so why let on that he's not a cop or doc or whatever? Also if scum have a rb/jk/redirector he can't even use his power anymore because he gave himself away

[hephaestus]

technically scum wasting a rb/jk on a vig shot isn't a big deal (since vig is hardly the most threatening PR in this setup unless he's hitting scum but even then scum are in a bad position if that's happening so it isn't likely to save them), the only issue is if they got redirector (but even then it's relatively easy to figure out who the redirector is at a mass claim so that's inherently risky in itself)

So essentially Sala went " hm let me pick this useless power role and make it

even more

useless!" That's what you're saying?

your scum read is dumb and not even well thought-out

You didn't even address half of what I said, twice

[hephaestus]

Heph, you said in your post that Regfan's wagon could not have been a scum gambit. Was anyone implying that it *was* a scum gambit?

I find it odd you'd use this to defend Regfan. I'm just trying to see your line of reasoning to give Regfan a town read.

If Regfan is scum what he did would be a gambit by default? People are scum reading him in part for driving the wagon on ZZZ but you're basically following this logic

In theory, it's possible that he tried to get the Rolecop as a scum and he realized that the rolepair had been taken by a townie. In this case he wanted to "out" the Backup so as to get a good target for the Nightkill.

and that's just a ridiculous unnecessary risk for scum, I mean you don't need to drive a mislynch D1 because a town wagon will probably pop up by itself and you don't need to rolefish between a total of two possibilities (the other of which is probably also a power role) and for a role that probably doesn't even have a power yet.

[hephaestus]

You've also said that your townreads weren't too "well-built".

My town reads are well reasoned I just suck at explaining them because they're often based on the way people word things and whether there's a certain flow to their logic, like I don't have to agree with them but their ideas will lead up to a vote rather than that the reasoning seems fabricated to fit whatever vote was most convenient for them. Anyway it's hard to point to and articulate these instances but they aren't baseless

As for me: whom am I buddying?

No one in particular I guess but you just seem really agreeable.. as if you're cautious about starting conflict or calling attention to yourself? I'm sure part of it is just you being a nice person but it feels off to me

[hephaestus]

As I've said being apologetic about your votes also comes into this

VOTE: Gameplay – please, don't take it as an offence.

VOTE: Hephaestus – sorry man,

Sorry friend, it is a must.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZZZX

I know it doesn't mean anything necessarily but it does stand out to me as behaviour I see a lot IRL from (generally new) players who feel guilty when playing as scum

[hephaestus]

VOTE: gameplay

[hephaestus]

[hephaestus]

Then again, if heph really is town (and is just a VI, which can explain things about his meta), then it'd be a waste.

Ha ha ha sod off

gameplay, is heph being bussed, and is he bussing back against aninem?

Also he points fingers at Muffin and Annenien mainly and still doesn't vote them.

I'm not even scum reading Anen

[hephaestus]

Null
Aafter - hmm
uctriton - not really leaning one way or the other yet
Aneninen - mild buddying, especially don't like the way he's being apologetic about his votes. but otherwise his play doesn't seem too scummy to me

Scum
Muffin - still in my scum block. I guess reading back I can see Sala just having weird reasoning/playstyle but idk why those things went completely unexamined yesterday. asked for an explanation repeatedly but never got one. don't have a read on muffin individually yet but he hasn't contributed that much and his vote on me was kinda easy tbh.
Flubber - lots of fluff and weird reasoning
gameplay - been going back and forth about him

but he has got to be scum

. also like i said his vote on me while maintaining that i'm town i mean seriously?

Like what does the bolded shit even mean. I have to be scum because? If you had a townread on everyone else I would have seen it but you have 3 (4) other null reads lol. And it is just really scummy how he says it. Reminds me of newb scum.

Also he points fingers at Muffin and Annenien mainly and still doesn't vote them. Pure wtf. In the end he votes me without even mentioning me after his reads post.

Proof that gameplay's vote on me is 100% omgus btw

[hephaestus]

gameplay the reason I elaborated on my Muffin and Anen reads is because i was asked to. If you want to know why I'm scum reading you just take a look at what you're doing tbh

You have to be scum because your behaviour can't be explained from a town point of view which is what i was going back and forth about initially. It's an expression lrn2english

[hephaestus]

Hephaestus-mix.

913 – and this vote is a WTF

Just because

you

think gameplay is town doesn't mean I can't vote him
I already mentioned/explained my read on him earlier

And tbh I don't care for this "sometimes VIs seem scummy even though they're not so let's assume scummy looking players are town" rhetoric.

@Siv: sure it's not good scum play, but yeah scum has reason to do the things he's doing like opportunistic voting and being purposefully useless whereas there is

no

reason why town (including VIs) would flip flop like that and constantly contradict themselves.

[hephaestus]

sorry i didn't have time to address this yesterday

if you're talking about stuff sala did that was supposedly scummy, then i don't know what you're expecting here

I'm sorry bro but stuff Sala did contributes to my read on your slot. So if you're going to say my read isn't "well thought-out" you can't ignore 75% of my reasoning
(For example you are going on about how the vig potentially being role blocked draws interference away from other PRs but ignore my argument that an

unclaimed

vig could draw the night kill away from other PRs

and still use their power

)

Besides I think the vig shot is just as (if not more) useful as any single night action from a different PR.

[hephaestus]

And are you really trying to tell me that giving scum an extra night kill (taking it away from town) and then outing a whole bunch of PRs to find the redirector is actually a favourable scenario for town come on

[hephaestus]

Heph, just because all we see is gameplay being a total VI doesn't mean there's more to read for other players.

Do you have any tells that aren't based on anti-town behaviour?

No I just think there's a noticeable difference between a VI and scum making a mess because a VI will behave/reason illogically but there will still be some consistency to their play and what they're saying.

Also the fact that gameplay is calling himself a VI now confirms he's hiding behind his bad play to say he's not scum especially since he's told Anatole to kill himself for calling him an VI earlier, but now that he sees people are assuming he's town because of it he's intentionally exaggerating it and making himself "unreadable"

[hephaestus]

Especially since this is my second "abandoned" game-ending in a row...)

I know right?!
I was looking forward to watching this game play out
I agree with Regfan, I could've seen it go either way

Anyway yeah you got me, well done
still not sure where the active lurking accusations came from though.. I wonder if I could've lived today if I hadn't missed those couple days or I'd gone after flubber right away, though I'm sure I would've been lynched tomorrow anyway

Fun game guys,, sad to see it end this way