Open 576.1: The Enemy of my Enemy is my...Enemy? (Game Over)

[droog]

nice try

[droog]

rvs is really weird with everyone on a 3rd reroll

[droog]

If the game was daystart, how would the former scum get a chance to talk about anything?

Aaaaand, you townslipped again. Standard moderating procedure is to allow scum to talk to their scumbuddy during the pregame. (Oh, and the scum obviously had N1 in the original game.)

ive been over this several times
i dont see how its a townslip

[droog]

1. Math's townslip doesn't seem too suspicious to me.

it is too late for me to even begin
to figure out what this means

[droog]

worst part of subbing is quick deadline
read part of the old game today but not the current one
accept this dodge for tonight

[droog]

So in short, this 100% seems town, and I think the wagon is, again, complete horseshit.

PEdit: I am NOT in any ongoing games with MathDino, he's full of shit. There goes my fucking town read.

alt maybe/

[droog]

i forget what my reads were last time i looked
starting over

fink is minor townread
cant explain that one with/o comparing to [ongoing[

[droog]

1. Math's townslip doesn't seem too suspicious to me.

something about this is off
talking about the scumness of a townslip
feels like scum trying to come up with somethin

[droog]

Fine.

Post #1: An extremely strong scum tell, in my experience. Saying "X is really good, he totally tricked me!" usually means "X beat me as scum once, and now I'm going to flip the tables".
Post #2: A correction that, as far as I can tell, was 100% wrong. So there's like not even a reason for this post to exist.
Post #3: Shoveling suspicion on someone without, again, really trying to see if it was right.

I mean like there's other reasons not to explain your vote.

But that's mafia theory, and I can go into it later.

Suffice to say, I think that voting does not have to be accompanied by reasons, and certainly not by reasons given at the time of the vote.

Actually saying that

Ruins the entire thing

Seriously

Predictability is the bane of good town play, that's why meta is so terrible.

greyice radiates sense
there forrest town

Is it just me or did autocorrect go haywire there?

[droog]

would lynch NJAC just to remove a non-contributor who will never be night killed

hi

[droog]

[

im not reading the rest of mstin's post
because i cant get past this

quote="In post 243, mastin2"]We can start with Egg having an immediate townread on me when frankly, I expect most players these days who have played with me within the last year to be scumreading me at gamestart. (Why? Heck if I know! But time and time again, game after freakin' game, it's been happening to me.) Then we can go into how he discredits the townreads, continuing into[/quote]


this is such a bullshit reason

[droog]

dine ive played you before help me out
why is dragonspawn town
i see nothing compelling in that iso

[droog]

It may be hard to "do something different", but the argument that dragonspawn is doing ANYTHING is pretty hard to make.

this is a fair point i could get behind
((im not beter))

[droog]

why am i voting for mastin
UNVOTE: unvote

[droog]

astinus' last post reads massively town to me

[droog]

i think that vote was from juls

[droog]

Was scum reading Eggbert, Mathdino, and Mastin for wall posting.

i like you
i had a minor town read on fink
im calling you town

[droog]

meh deadlines in two days

[droog]

A wall post is just a large post containing lots of information. Really it just shows you give a fuck about the game that you took the time to write a decently thought out post.

so uh
its great that you're passivley refuting goblin hree
what about your opinion on goblin or his reads or
something that will be useful 5 minutes after now

[droog]

By PoE the majority of the scum is probably in Fink-or-guille, Riabi, Egg, 2birds, and NJAC's slot.

eh why am i there+

[droog]

i saw #339 nowt #239 carry on

[droog]

I think Fink/Goblin is town because I think the wagon on him is weak and based on reasoning (which was that his vote on you was bad) I don't agree with.

Anyway, we're getting way close to deadline and it's freaking me out, so:

UNVOTE: dragonspawn

VOTE: Egg

this is l-1

[droog]

why do you turn a good townread sour by quickhammering

[droog]

Voided
You have 7 on the wagon and call it l-1

[droog]

@ mod

[droog]

i just read the entirety of egg's iso
whats the case on him again

[droog]

droog, check post 243. It's a damn good case on Egg.

its all meta
its such a backwards way of scumhunting
that it makes me scumread mastin

[droog]

Awww, I like Mathdino.

[droog]

everything about this wagon is terrible

[droog]

thats some deep irony

[droog]

was there another check?

[droog]

will give this some attentiont after the holidays

[droog]

ok so guile is not werewolf
and received the mafia check
and is essentially clear

but why is mastin clear i dont get that

[droog]

right
but couldct mastin still be the werewolf?

[droog]

the only reason im asking
i had mastin as a scum read
hearing 'mastin is cleared' sounds fishy at best
unless someone can explain further

[droog]

right
but couldct mastin still be the werewolf?

How could he be?

I'm asking droog.

he could be the werewolf cop

[droog]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
oops

never mind

[droog]

riabi
why do you believe its birds over other people

[droog]

fair enough for some reason i thought astinus' vote was yours
so

@astinus

same question i just asked riabi

[droog]

prod dodge
will give this some time tonight

[droog]

another prod dodge
i'll give this game some time this weekend

[droog]

another prod dodge, sorry bout this guys

though the accusation that im hiding behind a not-me lynch is odd
this is multiball
as scum i would have motivation to scumhunt too

the whole point is scums motivations overlap with townies

[droog]

Last prod dodge
Today I finally have time to post

[droog]

i dont want to but i'll make some posts
going back about ~5 pages

also mastin
for someone whos supposed to be clear
could you talk about something more useful

[droog]

Okay. Trying to gather my thoughts here. I still am extremely doubtful that both scumteams would send their investigation results to townies, and I think this might be a scum gambit. I'm gonna sleep on it tonight and see if I still feel the same way in the morning, but I did a Very Fast Skim of Mathdino/2birds/guille ISO, and 2birds looks more like he could be Dino's partner than Guille - I just notice them having similar reads early in the day, then generally ignoring each other later on. This is all very non-careful reading atm because it's 2am here and i'm tired but I'll keep it in mind when I actually do a closer read later (hopefully tomorrow, as i'm off from work)

just a thought
ifit was a scum gambit, then players claiming reports are fakers, right
the opposite scum team would best know if its a gambit

so if it is, opposite scum would know exactly who to kill

[droog]

Also, worth mentioning, I'm kinda inclined to lynch those who have pushed conftown players like droog and Riabi (side of TGS), even though that sounds terrible to say.

?
when did i push confirmtown

[droog]

That's an awfully-large gambit.

I don't disagree, but, again, what benefit is there in scum sending their results to apparently random people?

Also, worth mentioning, I'm kinda inclined to lynch those who have pushed conftown players like droog and Riabi (side of TGS)...

That's a good p-lynch IMO. But, no one is actually conf-town at this point.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Riabi

i dont understand this at all
you voted riabi for agreeing with you?

under normal circumstances id be suspecting birds here but
ill content mysel with a light town read on riab instead

[droog]

VOTE: grey

gut move right now.

Searching for a replacement for GreyICE

: |

[droog]

I don't think Riabi is scum. He has mentioned that in the two previous games he and his scumbuddies (DS and TGS) talked that the ideal scum strategy was to target their buddy. Unless Math or Fink's slot convinced him of not doing this, I would think that his preference would be to target his buddy.

You know, this is actually an EXCELLENT point. (Well, your others were good too, but they're redundant since I'd concluded they were town anyway. )

Honestly, I hate to say it, but I sort-of want to say this game is a little bit of a cruise control. Two dead scum N1 and with the info we have means only so many people can be scum. Throw in reasonable assumptions like the above, and you don't even need interactions from players in order to form a POE lynch pool. And topping that list is Nova.

Realistically, I don't see us lynching anyone else today.

jesus how many wagons have you guys been through
guile to riabi to nova

[droog]

Mastin, is replacing out an alignment tell for GreyICE? I know I had him as town for the majority of the game, but the "scum are intentionally stalling the game" theory kinda makes me wonder.

this is what you do with your cleared?

[droog]

mastin investigate doesn't say much. egg cursed him with his dying breath. mathdino probably wouldn't have done it, so i think the wolf cop suggested it. maybe droog would've done it: viewtopic.php?p=6401430#p6401430

?

[droog]

he was the only one scumreading mastin at the end of yesterday

im gonna chalk it up to playstyle
i know mastins cleared but

goddamn his last few posts are still useless
and still scream
'lynch me i talk lots and say little lynch me'

[droog]

Hello again, droog.

also hi tth

[droog]

My Internet just went out
I'm still working my way through

[droog]

I've never been careful with my vote before
No reason to start now

[droog]

Goblin was a counter wagon?

[droog]

Ok tbh
Reread bc of tth
Tth is right myniso looks like bs

Gonna reread a bit further back in exchange

[droog]

So do you agree with him that Nova was buddying then? Because it seemed ONE POST AGO that you thought it was as weird as I thought it was, until I pointed it out.

It's not pointing something out if it's bullshit. And the assertion that Guille is scumhunting and I'm not is just...

I think Nova's post was good. I think guille pointing it out was misguided, and it doesn't seem forced (hence just 'bad logic'). I think your logic on guille is fishy and opportunistic, an excuse to jump on the wagon.

Also Dino, I appreciate the 20 minutes you gave my completed game. Sorry I haven't finished a better scumgame, but if you're only looking at things to confirm your belief, rather than looking at how someone plays when you know alignment so you can try to figure them out... that's like the definition of confirmation bias.

I can't use it, that's all I can say. LyLo play is extremely different from D1 play. Meta is shaky enough as it is.
I'm not going to use the meta to validate or invalidate my suspicions. That's not confbias.

Dino hated the fink slot
I don't see them on the same wagon

[droog]

Never mind
I hate sub outs

[droog]

I apoligized for not posting for a large period of time after the game had already started. Just trying to show good manners.

Vote:Fink

The first thing that bothered me was him calling Guile's opinion on my post bullshit. The fact that it was part of his reasoning to join the wagon on him makes this suspicious in my eyes.

And how defensive he got about it before anyone even put a vote on him. He seems like he is trying to hard to justify his actions instead of admitting he was wrong. (Though later after pressure he admitted it, but that seemed like Fink was only doing what the crowd wanted)

Also I'm very interested in Mastin's absolute confidence Egg is scum.

This is interesting
I want to check it with skmethkng

[droog]

What would you like me to do? Gave my thoughts on Fink placed a vote. When Mastin puts out her surefire evidence I'll have something to add. At the present moment I'm not sure how I feel about Egg. Already gave my read on DS, and a slight townread on guille for his misunderstanding of my post and bound in activity.

Reads list would be nice. Gives us something to talk about. So far I know your reads on 3 people.

See the issue I have is I'm very cautious in trusting anyone completely. If at end game we have a copcheked townie player, I'll probably be the guy pointing out we haven't hit the Godfather, or a trustworthy miller could be scum.

So my reads are always leaning town, never fully trusted.

Town
MathDino
Mastin2
guille

Scum
Fink

Now this list is missing a lot of players obviously. These are really my "how I look at their posts", or do I take it all with scrutiny or see it as it is.

GreyICE has bothered me a lot. Looking at his posts he has even contributed much that's meaningful, only a couple posts that weren't mainly to call others on bad logic. But Grey hasn't even tried to contribute.

Yeah that's what I thiughthis
Whole sequence is quite flattering to dinos side

noba[/v]

[droog]

Honestly if it weren't for the clears
I'd be on Mastin still

But I'm tired of rereadinslmeone talk to me

[droog]

hey guys. sorry i did the lurking thing yesterday but i just dont have time today
will make up for this tomorrow

not too worried about this game tbh
even if you guys mislynch me we're in too good of a position to really lose

[droog]

Why Riddleton
I'm definitely not following anything yetbut
What's the logic

[droog]

Not changing my posting style
Even for a clear

[droog]

So if the only scum left is werewolf
Then it's somewhere in Dino's Iso most likely

Gut still says the nova / antihero slot
But I'll see how that turns out after some readkng

[droog]

I had a feeling about Mathdino so it's nice to feel vindicated.

Not a ton to say at the moment, I'm just checking in to get a post down. Hoping to re-read when the holiday stuff is over.

Was teen soft bussing?

Okay well once again saying/doing something silly in RVS hasn't gotten me much :I Oh well.

@Fink, Why would I have wanted to vote for Mastin over Grey?

I'm not really buying Mathdino's townslip. I'm not saying he's scummy, I'd put him at null for the time being, but the last game proved Mathdino knew what he was doing enough that he could totally fake a townslip.

this is where she has the Dino moment and it's really the only thing she ever says about him

I like Astinus's play so far, have a slight gut town read on her. She seems like she's genuinely trying to scumhunt and improve from the last game.

Dragonspawn makes a pretty good point about Riabi not wanting to go into so much detail about his scum strategy if he was scum in this game, and since I was Riabi's scumpartner in ~The Game That Never Was~ I can confirm that he's being honest and am inclined to also townread him. Dragon I'm less sure about, but if nothing else he seems less scummy than in the first game so far. As far as the whole Gambler's Fallacy thing everyone pointed out, I could see him saying that as town or scum.

[droog]

@2birds: Eh, I guess I could go for Riabi or TGS out of PoE but I don't really have scumreads on them. Let's see what happens after more discussion.

This is most of Dino's position there

[droog]

By PoE the majority of the scum is probably in Fink-or-guille, Riabi, Egg, 2birds, and NJAC's slot.

So yeah, would be down with a Riabi lynch for not doing much, but not really interested in getting people to switch over with 4 days to the deadline.

Change 'Fink-or-guille' to 'Fink, guille' because multiball and there's your scum.

Oh yeah I just realised I forgot TGS in there.

Since 2birds and droog are leaning into gut townreads, I'm going with scum in Fink, guille, Riabi, Egg, TGS.

This is interesting
Since Dino town read me and 2birds
He was most likely bussing in his scumreads

[droog]

I keep having to look to see who's who
I hate substitutrs

[droog]

VOTE: riddleton

Sorry bro
It's makes sense associatively
And 2birds seems to agree

[droog]

Actually astonished has even less on Dino that tgs

[droog]

Astonished ffs

[droog]

Astinus

[droog]

With people apparently being cleared through the nighttime investigations, I am going to

VOTE: 2birds1stone

Since he hasn't cleared yet.

This is actually really bsd

[droog]

Okay, since I apparently skimmed over why I thought I had read, I'll say this:

1. Math's townslip doesn't seem too suspicious to me. I look at it as a mistake he made accidentally and it eliminates one person on my scumlist.

2. I'm still trying to figure out Dragon's math.

3. I have a feeling Grey is subtly communicating to his scum partner how he or she should go about playing.

4. As for Egg, I'm wondering if his leave is a cover his lurking as scum and trying to stay out of the limelight.

With all that said, Grey seems the scummiest to me based on his advice to scum. Therefore...

VOTE: Grey

Math fink made a big deal out of astonished town slipping here
By suspecting grey ice for giving advice to scum

[droog]

yeah?

[droog]

Most of droog's catch up is nonsensical.

what about it did you not understand

[droog]

Tbh I wasn't done with my reread
When I got called away

But if you think I can't scumread the riddle slot
Then start nuking over adtinus
I don't expect you to believe me

[droog]

*thinking over

[droog]

therefore...?

[droog]

My issue with scumreads on the Astinus slot is that she doesn't seem like the most conscientious player and that's probably the root of most suspicions of her. Her anemic posting coupled with self-destructive behavior seemed to have gotten her into trouble in the first round of this game and it doesn't look like she made much of an effort to change between the first and second round. Other supporting evidence includes the fact she refers to herself as a "shitposter" in her signature and a few of the answers to questions in her GTKAS.

dont generally look at out of thread behavior
should i for astinus?

[droog]

By PoE the majority of the scum is probably in Fink-or-guille, Riabi, Egg, 2birds, and NJAC's slot.

So yeah, would be down with a Riabi lynch for not doing much, but not really interested in getting people to switch over with 4 days to the deadline.

Change 'Fink-or-guille' to 'Fink, guille' because multiball and there's your scum.

Oh yeah I just realised I forgot TGS in there.

Since 2birds and droog are leaning into gut townreads, I'm going with scum in Fink, guille, Riabi, Egg, TGS.

This is interesting
Since Dino town read me and 2birds
He was most likely bussing in his scumreads

so because he was town reading you and birds he was bussing his partner? Why can't either of you be his partner?

youre right i completely forgot the possibility that im dinos partner


birds isnt the partner because he's pretty much cleared

[droog]

which was a direct response to

would lynch NJAC just to remove a non-contributor who will never be night killed

[droog]

which explains exactly why dino called me njac
did you even read anti?

[droog]

[droog]

it sounds like a non-issue to me
birds is confirmed right?

[droog]

it sounds like a non-issue to me
birds is confirmed right?

He could still be the werewolf. But this is unlikely because for that to happened it would require several consecutive risky Gambits that are unlikely to yield a good result. He was also cleared as town for his posting and town-read by many including Mastin and Myself.

So, not confirmed but town.

yeah i just dont see him as werewolf
the only way that makes sense is if
he lied about having the report after dino died
which would go horribly wrong if his report target failed

[droog]

I don't think Math will be so blatant in his association.

I feel that Mathdino was setting me up as his buddy if he were Lynched or Killed. Which means that he can systematically fake an association. I wouldn't go entirely off of Math's post to find his buddy.

what posts gave you this impression?

meh maybe i was wrong about trawling through dino
it seems like we're all getting different results looking through that

[droog]

which was a direct response to

would lynch NJAC just to remove a non-contributor who will never be night killed

This isn't analogous to the Astinus point I just made.

MathDino is categorically stating that you shouldn't be lynched, which scum have a lot of motive to do.

Also, GreyICE wasn't directly speaking to MathDino and, therefore, didn't

require

an answer.

i dont disagree with the bolded
i dont know why dino did it -- except to get towncred for 'dont lynch him he's a sub'

but come on you're digging a bit deep
id barely been in when dino said that

which makes more sense
dino hard buddying saying he's not going to lynch his partner after his partner's been in for ~10 short posts
dino responding to grey's vote on njac by saying njac doesnt exist anymore and i have to look very scummy to be worth lynching

[droog]

heck iirc he said he wasnt lynching me
before committing to a read on me

[droog]

*Overall, droog's ISO isn't anything to write home about.

The current reads are in absolute disarray

and the resulting vote doesn't make much sense. He presented associatives with our slot, Riddleton's slot, and beastcharizard's slot. Surprisingly, the one with the least support and vaguest outlining, Riddleton's slot, ends up with the vote (Post 746). The stronger cases lie elsewhere, but Riddleton gets the vote because "Sorry bro It's makes sense associatively"?

have you played with me before

i actualy riddleton made a ton of sense
so did everyone else which is why im voting there
i think astinus slot has a strong associative case too
do you really care about whether im voting for #1 or #2
i could look into the isos but there's not much point
with two clears and 1 scum left we're basically in autowin

[droog]

you should always vote your strongest scum read

this is something i have never agreed with
and never quite understood

i am voting riddleton because he makes a lot of sense to me as scum
he has not come on to respond to anything said against him
and 2birds is also pushing a riddleton lynch

would you rather i stick a wrench in everythign
by voting for someone no one else is interested in lynching
((afair no one else expressed intereste in lynching you))
while fighting 2birds every step of the way?

[droog]

So you are pushing Riddleton because you town read 2birds who also is pushing Riddleton?

Also, I explained my logic of why you should vote your strongest town read.

I know you explained your logic
I don't agree with it
And have never agreed with that line of thought


And uh
I don't have to tow read 2burds

[droog]

I don't have to tow read 2burds

Then why the heck do they influence why you want to vote who you are voting?

is this a townslip or do you really not know the answer

[droog]

Then say you don't know the answwr

[droog]

Huh for some reason I thought you weren't on me

[droog]

That's l-1 and probably the end of me
When I'm dead go back to Riddleton or adtinus

I've played a preppy piss poor game but
I've been consistent enough today for you to follow

Checking out for Christmas
Good luck!

[droog]

bah humbug
good game all
thanks for hosting voided

id thought id bussed dino more than i had
id certainly wanted to on day 1 not sure what happened there

game would have been very different if our kill and inspection were switched

[droog]

2birds wasnt technically cleared
if i had had more time i would have started giving 2birds useful cop checks

[droog]

i just want to know why they killed dino/pine