Open 576.1: The Enemy of my Enemy is my...Enemy? (Game Over)

[Riabi]

I'm here.... I'm just.. not sure what to say. Sadly, not much is really pinging me as overly scummy right now. I think I need to just re-read the entire game. I'll try to do that tonight or tomorrow night.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 1.08:

Mastin2 - droog, 2birds
GreyICE - Teen Girl, Astinus
Guille - Fink
Fink - Mastin2, guile, Mathdino, Nova
dragonspawn - Egg, GreyICE

Not Voting - Riabi, dragonspawn

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-11-23 01:51:29) or by 11:50 PM on November 22nd, 2014.

Blerg. I'm sorry everyone. A close friend of mine died over the weekend and I really haven't been able to focus on much. I know deadline is close so I'd rather not replace out. I'm taking a half-day at work today as a personal day, so hopefully I will have time to get a proper post and possibly a re-vote done, and see where I'll go from there.

My condolences as well. I cannot let you stay away for too long, but feel free to take the week off if you need to.

[Nova-Radiance]

My condolences TGS.

MathDino, how well do you know GreyICE?

[Mathdino]

Played with him once before where he had a post restriction that forced him to speak in morse code with the dashes and dots replaced with words. This quickly pissed him off and also pissed off Lady Lambdadelta who he soon began a screaming match with.

Also another game but I can't talk about that.

[Nova-Radiance]

Thank you. Not a specific reason I asked as of yet. Just curious about your relation.

[mastin2]

Sorry for the long delay. Busy, busy weekend combined with my modded game taking priority over games where I am a player.

Can you articulate your read on Fink better? I think you're on to something there but it's difficult for me to explain my vibes from Fink.

I think the best way I can describe it, is that Fink feels like an entirely different animal. Last game, Fink felt a bit laid back---here, he is aggressive. Last game, Fink felt like he was doing some decent analysis, but was taking a step back from it all to think. He was casual, calm, and held good logic. This game, he feels as if he's pushing much harder. His analysis doesn't seem as insightful: it seems strong enough to be pushed, but it's as if he's not truly reflecting upon it.

A lot of this I can sum up as such: whereas last game, Fink's posting felt natural and instinctive, this game it feels forced. 33/34/35/36, for instance. They feel like a scum player trying to imitate content, rather than a town player truly producing content. His tone came across as flat and dull (45 in particular is bad this way), as if he actually didn't really care about the results of what he was saying, in stark contrast to the town-Fink I got acquainted with. All-in-all, he immediately seemed less of a town force, and more of just a "force", if you get the meaning. Like a player who is trying their hardest to imitate their town self yet is trying too hard, and visibly showing.

That's Fink to me.

[mastin2]

It would seem that he picked somebody at random but said random was not in the game. Like if he wasn't paying attention. However, he did not confirm before posting and thus we can't be sure that he even read his PM. I would keep an open mind on Grey.

For the record, I don't particularly believe the townslip was one. Thinking a player would be in the game, when they're not, isn't really that telling, especially when it can be faked. I'd much prefer judging GreyICE on other merits.

VOTE: Guille
That's L-2

guille is as far as I'm concerned the Astinus of this game: nice and shiny-flashy-look-good, but very likely on town.

That Fink would risk a lynch is another contrast between Fink of last game and Fink here. Last game, Fink recognized the danger of an Astinus quicklynch. Here, via L-2, Fink is placing the game in danger of having one, likely with the same ultimate result.

[mastin2]

Oh, and while we're on that post...

But yeah apparently no one eles suspect Dragon, and his last few posts have been pretty good (I'm still suspicious).

This line is absolutely horrible. He's backing down from dragon because nobody else is going for it--the town solution to nobody going for what you want is to convince them. Yet instead, he goes with the flow onto guille. There's also the contrast between "posting being pretty good" and "still suspicious".

[GreyICE]

I am adamantlyrics against the fink wagon. I just spent an entire game busting his assistant and he was town. Don't feel like doing it again. He was contributing up until the VLA, and I hate lynching contributing memyers (that goes triple in multiball).

I wonder how you see fink contributing. The only thing I see him do is talk about how he is not scum and how I am?

Also, How is everyone considering "dragon = town for one dumb reason." imply that Dragon is scum?

For fucks sake, he STILL has the second most posts in this entire town (thanks MathSpamo). He prods Astinus, then interacts with him, talks about mastin, hell, pushes me on Mastin (he did the same thing last game with my Fuzzy = Town read), pushes me on the Guille vote, and it's only when Dino starts pushing his Fink = scum read that he gets fed up and frustrated. That reads to me as genuine because he was fairly frustrated after being pushed hard by me, Parama, and Sthar in the last game, and actually ending up in a claim clusterfuck.

So in short, this 100% seems town, and I think the wagon is, again, complete horseshit.

PEdit: I am NOT in any ongoing games with MathDino, he's full of shit. There goes my fucking town read.

[Mathdino]

GreyICE. HypotheticalBassists is my hydra. Jesus.

[droog]

So in short, this 100% seems town, and I think the wagon is, again, complete horseshit.

PEdit: I am NOT in any ongoing games with MathDino, he's full of shit. There goes my fucking town read.

alt maybe/

[GreyICE]

GreyICE. HypotheticalBassists is my hydra. Jesus.

Hahahaahhaa, that explains so fucking much in my life.

Jesus Christ.

[GreyICE]

I'm here.... I'm just.. not sure what to say. Sadly, not much is really pinging me as overly scummy right now. I think I need to just re-read the entire game. I'll try to do that tonight or tomorrow night.

Oh and hai guyz, I know whose under the radar this game.

[droog]

i forget what my reads were last time i looked
starting over

fink is minor townread
cant explain that one with/o comparing to [ongoing[

[Mathdino]

By PoE the majority of the scum is probably in Fink-or-guille, Riabi, Egg, 2birds, and NJAC's slot.

So yeah, would be down with a Riabi lynch for not doing much, but not really interested in getting people to switch over with 4 days to the deadline.

[droog]

1. Math's townslip doesn't seem too suspicious to me.

something about this is off
talking about the scumness of a townslip
feels like scum trying to come up with somethin

[Mathdino]

Or maybe it's just a newbslip not understanding what she was being asked.

[GreyICE]

One note, Mathdino - we can't do "X or Y" this game. X and Y can be "not scum with each other" and still independently scum.

Not that it matters, I think Fink is town and Guille is scum, but "X or Y" is so bad.

On that list, I don't want to lynch 2birds, he's competent and may be night killed (plus I don't think he's particularly scummy here), would lynch NJAC just to remove a non-contributor who will never be night killed (not being night killable is actually a fine reason to lynch someone in this setup), and I'd be 100% fine lynching Riabi and Egg (now that I look, something is seriously off on Egg).

[mastin2]

When it comes to Egg, it's actually fairly similar to Fink. Egg as town is fairly laid back. The Egg you see in 124 is fairly forced.

Mathdino, why would it be a townslip for GreyICE to make a mistake with the playerlist? I like Mastin's first post. Those questions could be very helpful. Buuuut. Wouldn't Mathdino's so called townslip just be slipping that he was town in the last game? Or even scum who didn't get a chance to talk pregame? I don't think it's telling for this game.

We can start with Egg having an immediate townread on me when frankly, I expect most players these days who have played with me within the last year to be scumreading me at gamestart. (Why? Heck if I know! But time and time again, game after freakin' game, it's been happening to me.) Then we can go into how he discredits the townreads, continuing into

Riabi's post about being scum the first time looks town

because of all of the details he gives

. However, it's easy to post for town points and change the way he crumbs. So it's weak town points. UPDATE: Ok, so the details were for the game that never happened. That diminishes this much more than the chance that he wanted town points diminished it. Maybe to the point of not even being a town tell anymore.

^This. The Egg I know more or less comments on things that he sees as relevant...because he has valuable commentary to give on them. Here, he's commenting on something and explicitly calling it essentially null. Heck, the whole practically-PBPA (well, "analysis"; commentary would be more accurate for what Egg's actually producing) format seems un-Egglike, too.

Mathdino, why do you think the above about dragonspawn comes from town? GreyICE, while I personally find everything in your post 26 to be obvious, others may not, And they may be scum. Why are you sharing optimal scum strategy?

Both of these questions felt forced as well.

Fink's post 84 looks genuine and transparent. Town unless he is very confident in his scum play.

There's also the fact that this is absolutely backwards from what Fink's done. He's been hollow and somewhat obtuse to me, and Egg's an even worse offender. The caution and overall lack of in-depth analysis is sticking out.

There's other stuff that is just plain ol' gut, too.

I self-voted because I had read in the wiki that it might be helpful

^This is why the wiki sucks.

Like this.

Mastin, I think I know what you are trying to say about the Gullie wagon. I don't see a case. It seems like he's being voted for being a non-entity. Why not vote me in that case? Or anyone else who isn't active? However, the players on the wagon aren't overly scummy. It just seems like everyone is misguided. But in a game with two teams, most any mislynch will probably be more misguided than with ill intent. It's interesting to note the wagon, but I don't see anything specific I can pick out of it without more development.

And this. If there's something wrong, I can't place my finger on it, yet it's tripping my scumdar like crazy.

But this one, IS scum.

Huh. Wanted to townread Fink until his Gullie vote.

This is an incredibly-weird way of handling a read. If you're townreading the slot, then you townread the slot. If you see something to make you doubt the townread, you mention this in the townread. If you're ambivalent, you state your ambivalence and why. You don't go, "well, I was

gonna

do it, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...".

There's a reason I called him scum from just the one post. There is just so much about it that makes him, not town.

[droog]

Fine.

Post #1: An extremely strong scum tell, in my experience. Saying "X is really good, he totally tricked me!" usually means "X beat me as scum once, and now I'm going to flip the tables".
Post #2: A correction that, as far as I can tell, was 100% wrong. So there's like not even a reason for this post to exist.
Post #3: Shoveling suspicion on someone without, again, really trying to see if it was right.

I mean like there's other reasons not to explain your vote.

But that's mafia theory, and I can go into it later.

Suffice to say, I think that voting does not have to be accompanied by reasons, and certainly not by reasons given at the time of the vote.

Actually saying that

Ruins the entire thing

Seriously

Predictability is the bane of good town play, that's why meta is so terrible.

greyice radiates sense
there forrest town

Is it just me or did autocorrect go haywire there?

[droog]

would lynch NJAC just to remove a non-contributor who will never be night killed

hi

[Mathdino]

Oh yeah, that's a good point, forgot this was multiball. Found Fink's jumping on guille's wagon to be indicative that they weren't on the same team but totally derped on setup.

NJAC is now droog. We're not lynching him unless something goes seriously wrong in the next 4 days with his slot.

On 2birds, I'm treating him as a null mostly because while he has been different from last game, I'm not getting overly townish vibes yet. But yeah, wouldn't lynch him, just saying he's in the PoE'd out of the townpool list.

Edit: Written before mastin's wall.

[GreyICE]

Shall we then Mastin? I feel a fuckton better about the Egg wagon than I do about the Fink one. Based on the ending of Micro 398 I just see that one as a green name and lots of yelling in the dead thread.

Vote: Egg

PEdit: Dino is scum. Doesn't matter, he's getting night killed anyway.

[droog]

[

im not reading the rest of mstin's post
because i cant get past this

quote="In post 243, mastin2"]We can start with Egg having an immediate townread on me when frankly, I expect most players these days who have played with me within the last year to be scumreading me at gamestart. (Why? Heck if I know! But time and time again, game after freakin' game, it's been happening to me.) Then we can go into how he discredits the townreads, continuing into[/quote]


this is such a bullshit reason

[Mathdino]

mastin

: That's actually really good. I disagree on the 'wanted to townread' part, I think that's something a townie would say but the rest makes sense.

@Grey: What?

Edit: Meh, it's something I'd expect mastin to say.