Open 616: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[itlepip]

Found one scum team.

VOTE: Sharky

[itlepip]

its RVS dude...

[itlepip]

I am sorry, do you not enjoy playing with me?

I had no idea, I know some don't, because I take the game not as serious as a few. And I don't create as much content as others.

-Fire

it was a joke. Just seems like you are in every single one of my games. You and Vedith.

lol, I have the same thing except with fire and titus.

[itlepip]

How do you know what scum would claim? Are you one of them?

Couldn't it also catch town off guard? Isn't this actually much more likely than catching scum?

[itlepip]

It is but town wouldn't need to panic, right?

Why would scum need to panic?

[itlepip]

L-1 isn't the most comfortable spot to be, is it?

Why would scum panic and not town? How have you not figured out what my point is?

[itlepip]

kinda... I still disagree with it being in any way towny.

[itlepip]

I hate RVS, so I'm just warning you that I won't really say much, nor read much until tomorrow, when I expect RVS to be over.

This has been another playstyle note by DiamondSentinel!

Thanks for reading!

self meta is scummy.

[itlepip]

FTR there is a 25% chance a wagon with 3 people on it will not contain scum, so saying that it probably will contain scum doesn't provide any real insight into the game.

Also it is nice that someone has filled the next policy lynch slot...

[itlepip]

FTR there is a 25% chance a wagon with 3 people on it will not contain scum, so saying that it probably will contain scum doesn't provide any real insight into the game.

Also it is nice that someone has filled the next policy lynch slot...

Going by % wise is always stupid.
It's how something is done rather than odds.

Otherwise
Odds are that we lynch town today and tomorrow over scum - Doesn't work.

-Vedith

Sure I agree, but my point is that claiming that there is scum on that wagon is very probable, so is a statement pretending to be a read over actually being a read, and therefore scummy.

[itlepip]

Sharky, do you actually have views on anyone that you can share, or are you just trying to discredit anyone you can?

im going to discredit all the crappy reads I want thank u very much
however ill share that my vote on you is well placed as of right now, perhaps you could talk me out of it

How about you giving your read since you voted on lillith during RVS.

[itlepip]

That is not what I meant and you know it vedith. All I meant is that before you say "explain why I shouldn't vote you" you should actually explain that read.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sharky
Happy now?

[itlepip]

lilith finally posted. I wanted to see if she'd get defensive / ignore me or whatever. she acted like i didnt say anything, probably more likely to be town than scum
UNVOTE:
VOTE: itlepip
after being pressured by vedith you immediately do the oppurtunistic thing and go for the person who voted without explaining (with it turning out to be a reaction test)
noice

I WAS ALREADY VOTING YOU! Unless you really don't want to explain your read you are so proud about and are hiding it behind this OMGUS, I have no idea what you are doing.

[itlepip]

lilith finally posted. I wanted to see if she'd get defensive / ignore me or whatever. she acted like i didnt say anything, probably more likely to be town than scum
UNVOTE:
VOTE: itlepip
after being pressured by vedith you immediately do the oppurtunistic thing and go for the person who voted without explaining (with it turning out to be a reaction test)
noice

I WAS ALREADY VOTING YOU! Unless you really don't want to explain your read you are so proud about and are hiding it behind this OMGUS, I have no idea what you are doing.

wat read are you talking about exactly
you unvoted then voted again to make it a serious vote.. right? otherwise i have no idea what you are doing either

yes, that was it, why were you OMGUSing a vote that was already in play? Answer my question please!

[itlepip]

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

Do you want to hazard who the 4th scum is and completely figure out the game?

Also given that there is no vote on that massive scum find, I am pretty sure that was just a massive fence sit

VOTE: DiamondSentinel
Sharky is still probably scum.

[itlepip]

That game's over, so I can quote it now!

Go read Antihero v. Fakegod day 1. You will see my reasons for not voting. It will better explain than I can now. I'm being serious here. I'm in no mood to explain why I won't vote.

Alright, I am going to assume you are just new here so here is an explanation from Thor from my noob game as to why having votes in play is important (copyright Thor 2015 used for educational purposes)

Spoiler: education for diamond

Basically, during the day phase and barring certain specific roles, the town has two tools available to them; their words, and their vote.
Functionally, you are q=arguing that 50% of your tools don't matter as long as you use your words to describe where your vote should be.
Your reason to do this is to, and I roughly paraphrase; avoid fear of a quicklynch and to give the replacement time to change your mind.

Okay, let's address your two raised concepts first and why I think they're both silly;

1. Quicklynch - functionally, I have only seen this happen maybe 10% of my games, and only in newbie games, and usually it actually has been a decent scumhunting tool about 50% of the time the next day phase as I only really have seen a bone-headed lynch happen that way exceedingly rarely. So even if this was an issue to fear, I think it is a small fear. Also, Aero's slot has 1 (one) vote on him, so...y'know, even if you did vote him it would still take a three player sudden blitz to manage the quicklynch. So, yeah....*maybe* that's something to fear...but even if it is - it's not applicable here and to an Aero vote, so why act like it is?

2. Give the replacement time to change your mind - can he not do this with a vote on him? Last I checked an 'unvote' option existed, so at that stage you can have the vote on him and make it clear what your intents are. So, how would having a vote on him prevent his ability to change your mind? It wouldn't. So how is this applicable? It isn't.

Okay, so I've shown why both of your raised counters are unapplicable to this specific situation, and/or unapplicable to any situation and also that the actual danger of quicklynch is pretty rare even if it is a major fear to your soul. But showing that your issues against doing it are silly, does not actually support my concept that your vote *should* be in play, so allow me to present my reasons for why it should.

1. I offer this; http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _Your_Vote

2. Secondly, you point out that as long as you make it clear whom you suspect that is fine - I suggest that it is not. In pro-town sense, late in the game, when people are looking for info, the easiest way to quickly assess who people scum read is to iso the mod and look at vote counts. If your reads always require people to iso you to learn your top scum read at any given point you are adding work to their efforts to track people's reads - I can see how that is helpful to scum and a hinderance to town and do not see how it is helpful to town. So, for the ease of quick analysis I submit that having a vote in play as often as possible and on your top suspect is strongly pro-town for ease of info tracking late game.

3. Thirdly, though this touches again on my first point, I do think it is a strong issue. A vote is a little more serious than words. Maybe not a lot, but saying you suspect someone and never voting them looks scummy to me - so having a playstyle where you offer suspicion but don't back it up with the most tangible in-game proof of suspicion just, in a general sense, makes you come across as skeevy and/or limpwristed, and neither is a pro-town energy and neither strikes me as more helpful (or equally helpful) to just putting your money where your mouth is and placing the vote - so even if you're *null* on my points above, as a simple favor to me and/or to look less scummy to me - just put your vote in play, unless you disagree with why I zap your stated fears and/or have new fears.

I am going to leave my vote on you until you vote.

[itlepip]

I'm not saying I won't vote. But on day 1 especially, I am very cautious with my vote. I realize this is the least worrisome time to use it, but I am still cautious.

WHY! Did you read the post, in the meta on this site withholding your vote is scummy and doesn't help town, what evil thing can happen to you if you vote on your scum reads?

[itlepip]

@Sharky, how was it not in play, you were being voted by me? How is that not in play. The Lilith read was my question but you rescinded it so it no longer applies.

[itlepip]

Holy shit, you guys are comedy gold! Maybe I should just stick to theme games. I'm already sucking at first non-theme. Anyways, how about you guys not lynch me and do some actual scumhunting. That'd be nice, please and thank you.

VOTE: Diamond
VOTE: Diamond
VOTE: Diamond
VOTE: Diamond


"Hey guys, please don't vote me. Thanks! I know you have some questions for me, but I think it is better to just ask to be townread then actually address any of you, Byeee"

[itlepip]

Why are you not voting? Saying 'cause I don't do that ' doesn't really cut it for me. Either give a reason for not voting or vote.

[itlepip]

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

YOU HAVE THREE SCUM READS, VOTE FOR ONE OF THEM!

[itlepip]

Nobody is acting scummy enough to merit my vote currently. The only ones I'd consider are Jester and MOHIS, and neither or them are strong enough.

PEdit: statement about single player... Hmm

If Jester plays aggressive town, I will almost guarantee he's town.


I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but that's all I got.

PPEdit: None of them are strong enough.

So you have a total of 5 scum reads, but none of them are scummy enough for you to vote?

This is 100% lynch level fence sitting, why is he not dead yet?

PEdit: finally voted, I still suggest lynching.

[itlepip]

Holy shit, I just realized I'm a moron.

What thought process led to this sentence?

He realized he might be able to dodge a lynch if he votes, so he votes.

[itlepip]

I feel like Oprah's about to go fucking ham on this game, and if you lynch me while I'm asleep, then she definitely will.

I will be asleep for the next 8-9 hours, so don't lynch me while I'm gone. If I'm taken to L-1, please get off me so I can have a last will and testament if you still want to lynch me. If you still deem me lynchable after that statement, then by all means do, but I won't be held responsible at that point.

PEdit: Wrong, itlepip, there's a much bigger reason for it.

Is Oprah your partner? Also stop talking in these vague comments and explain yourself.

[itlepip]

itlepip what am I explaining to you then? honestly m8 defuq do you want from me? I did that post as a stunt to see what lilith would do, you can choose to believe that or not

as for the updates on diamond I still don't want to vote him. yes, I agree he is very anti-town and a lot of his ideas about how to play this are wrong. I still think he could be a seriously confused townie. pls do not let this day end early via quicklynch.

I believe you about lilith. You really should vote for diamond though.

[itlepip]

You see, I forgot there was only the doctor in this setup as a PR, so the odds are astronomical of actually lynching him. And besides, what kind of IDIOT wouldn't claim doc if he was about to get lynched.

Can you explain what you mean by "the odds of actually lynching the doctor are astronomical if the doctor is the only PR"--wouldn't the odds of lynching a PR be even higher if there were more PRs? Wouldn't the odds of lynching doctor be just about even with the odds of lynching any other person in this game? How does our chance of lynching doctor go up as the number of PRs goes down? What is this post even.. Is this supposed to be a crumb or something?

No because why would he be worried about lynching the doc by voting if he was the doc? He is crumbing scum, just vote.

[itlepip]

Diamond is just an easy target, that wagon is boring

I'm inclined to agree.

I'm dead tired since I didn't get more than 4-5 hours of sleep any day this past week. Normally I'm more active than this--I'll catch up later tonight after hw.

When you catch up, can you tell me what you think of the Sharky5x and itlepip interactions?

My concern is that how do you ever lynch diamond if he can fence sit on 5 scumreads and still not be called scummy. I agree that early his play was just nooby, but when being pressed on his vote he stays adamant in not voting, and then a second later does a complete 180 and votes. His play is designed around no one being able to build a case on him by waffling everything. The only reason he ever voted is because of the pressure that was on him, so do you really expect him to contribute anything to the game except under pressure? I am not saying a quick lynch, but we are still so far from either a lynch or the DL.

[itlepip]

VC edit, holy shit he is at L-2, when did that happen? NVM on the whole *far from lynch thing, wow.

[itlepip]

I mean, they haven't proved that they're town, yet, but at the same time I don't really know if they're town. I'm just guessing at least one of them is scum.

If this isn't grade A fence sitting then lynch me here

[itlepip]

If somehow Diamond is genuine about this: Diamond, here is the problem, everyone here was a noob at some point, I still probably qualify since I have only been here a few months. You are not adapting to the meta or the way the game works here at all. Saying, don't lynch me cause I don't want to analyze things d1 is going to cause this exact wagon every game. The reason for it is not physically possible to win a forum game of mafia if you only look at actions and not words. Honestly everyone can analyze actions, but to say that you have nothing to contribute d1, and outside of a few remarks d2 on the night actions have nothing else to contribute means that you are effectively already lynched if you are town.

PEDIT: Yep.

[itlepip]

i almost wish i hammered diamond while i couldve, this is ridiculous

If that statement isn't scummy, I don't know what is...

Yay a post I agree with :)

VOTE: Sharky I can ride this wagon.

[itlepip]

yes because as scum if i get voted one time i immediately give up and shitpost

itepip is scum
diamond is either really newbie scum "Yeah, might as well", or newbie town trying to actually play and fit in
by the way you gotta spell my name right for it to count i believe

lol omgus. Why wouldn't I vote for you there, I have always been scum reading you.

[itlepip]

not to mention that wasnt even a point, that was making fun of how you came to the conclusion that my post is scummy. youre doing a great job on the scumhunting thing, amirite?

He found scum, so he is doing that part right at least. Your entire game

has

been just shitposting, so what Diamond says isn't too much of an insight, but if you don't want to be the lynch today you'd better actually explain your thoughts instead of just 'lol, I'm town, people who think I'm scum are scum. How can you guyz not see how super towny I am lol'

[itlepip]

Notice how he kept the gamestate in a place that seemed like I just gave up as scum? :I If I get lynched for that dumb mistake and yall dont lynch itlepip after that ima be pissed

I'm fine with you getting lynched and then crossing that bridge when we get there.

[itlepip]

Notice how he kept the gamestate in a place that seemed like I just gave up as scum? :I If I get lynched for that dumb mistake and yall dont lynch itlepip after that ima be pissed

I'm fine with you getting lynched and then crossing that bridge when we get there.

sounds good

watch as he plays it off tomorrow by talking about how terrible i am and how it really was just because im so anti-town

Yeah, you do know what the expression crossing the bridge when we get there means? Cause lynching scummy people isn't scummy.

[itlepip]

You say that, lilith, and then all of mine are exactly wrong, and all of my town-reads are scum, and vice versa. That's what happened during my only other finished game.

Our 2 big town players died, so I tried to take control of the town, and failed miserably.

What is your opinion of sharky?

Also sharky, my priority is today is a. Find scum and b. get people to give reads that can be analyzed in future days. For me both of these goals are basic town priorities, so when someone refuses to have one of these goals accomplished, I will vote for them. As you can see, the wagon on diamond successfully wrung him hard enough for some reads and even a vote to drop out, and now Diamond is a functioning member of town. You on the other hand react to any scum accusation with 'lol no you are scum' to the extent that I would love you to be lynched here. My read on you hasn't wavered at all, but the good to town by pressuring Diamond was worth more then working to lynch you. I was always intending to go back to your wagon once Diamond started giving reads, so you whining about it now is dumb.

[itlepip]

I guarantee there is scum (if diamond is scum then scum of the opposing faction) on that wagon.
it hurts me how easy of a target he is
pedit:
cool story jester

Can you explain this further?

-Vedith

DiamondSentinel - 5 - duppin, My Other Head Is Scum, The_Jester, itlepip, Diego1487 - (L-2)

+ Lilith voted after the VC
Explain how an easy lynch target that gets 6 votes that quickly has scum on the wagon in a game with 4 scum? It isn't obvious why I think there is scum on the wagon?

If there are two scum factions, any wagon with 4 or more is statistically likely to have scum on it somewhere just because if you pick more 2-3 people randomly from a hat, there will probably be scum there. I am sick to death of this 'there is scum somewhere on this wagon' when it is a full wagon because it is factually true but isn't actually a read because stats, but sounds like a read. If you want to go that route look at why people voted or other stuff, but don't try to pass 'there is scum somewhere' as an actual read or insight into the game.

Vedith, I still agree with you on Diamond but I am currently giving until d2 to massively improve his act.

[itlepip]

^ You are making yourself look bad, scum has nothing to do with it.

[itlepip]

I guarantee there is scum (if diamond is scum then scum of the opposing faction) on that wagon.
it hurts me how easy of a target he is
pedit:
cool story jester

Can you explain this further?

-Vedith

DiamondSentinel - 5 - duppin, My Other Head Is Scum, The_Jester, itlepip, Diego1487 - (L-2)

+ Lilith voted after the VC
Explain how an easy lynch target that gets 6 votes that quickly has scum on the wagon in a game with 4 scum? It isn't obvious why I think there is scum on the wagon?

If there are two scum factions, any wagon with 4 or more is statistically likely to have scum on it somewhere just because if you pick more 2-3 people randomly from a hat, there will probably be scum there. I am sick to death of this 'there is scum somewhere on this wagon' when it is a full wagon because it is factually true but isn't actually a read because stats, but sounds like a read. If you want to go that route look at why people voted or other stuff, but don't try to pass 'there is scum somewhere' as an actual read or insight into the game.

Are you saying I am just going by the stats? Diamond was an easy mislynch that people latched onto. I find it suspicious.

Pedit: Diamond was/is making himself look bad. I still townread him, though.

I'm saying that saying that a wagon with 6 people on it with 2 scum factions almost necessarily has scum on it somewhere, and you pointing it out is you trying to produce a read without actually doing anything.

[itlepip]

I'm not posting much because my posts are concise and to the point.
Diamond is probs getting night killed at some point. Just saying.

This I 100% disagree with, at this point if I were scum diamond would be the top people to bring to lylo with me.

[itlepip]

I'm not posting much because my posts are concise and to the point.
Diamond is probs getting night killed at some point. Just saying.

This I 100% disagree with, at this point if I were scum diamond would be the top people to bring to lylo with me.

Only if he is town. I doubt scum will wamt to risk bringing hom into LyLo. From fire and Ice experience, opposing scum and one toen alive normally leads to town win or scum teams drawing.

Are you really suggesting that we don't lynch scum here? You are saying that you think the diamond is scum, and because of that he will be NKed so we should leave him alive???

[itlepip]

Jester's obvious reaction test at me.

If it was obvious then why did you OMGUS it? Are reaction tests scummy?

[itlepip]

Really ASP? Do you have to attack me every fucking game? That isn't even a case it is a disagreement. Scum don't want the other team to make it to LyLo. I don't think that he is definitely scum, but I think someone who is scum does.

How about instead of giving that read you say who that person is?

[itlepip]

Holy shit half the people in this game are due to be prodded. Are we all just okay with the Sharky lynch?

[itlepip]

I really believe that scum are lurking this game. With diamond dominating the conversation it's easy to sit back and watch the town debate its self to death.

In regards to Not I think we have better scum suspects today, but if he doesn't replace and just continues prodging I would advocate for a policy in later days.

[itlepip]

I feel like there's a lot of TvT noise here

So who is scum then?

[itlepip]

If that's no case, then I want to know what the hell a case is.

All I'm getting is "Jester is scum, it's so obvious, how can you not see it?"

Have you not read what I've been posting? I literally just explained how practically all of his posts point to him as scum.

link that post please cause I couldn't find it.

[itlepip]

(expired on 2015-11-28 15:06:00)

[itlepip]

Really ASP? Do you have to attack me every fucking game? That isn't even a case it is a disagreement. Scum don't want the other team to make it to LyLo. I don't think that he is definitely scum, but I think someone who is scum does.

If you want me to stop scum reading you, stop being scummy.

I think Diamond is actually town and we shouldn't lynch him. Random feels town currently too.

Explain the random read.

@Diamond: why should the scummy lurkers get away with it? And what's so scummy about the guys with 10-15 posts that doesn't apply to those with less? What makes Duppin scummy as of 388 that didn't make NM or myself or Apricity scummy?

I'm not being scummy. You are.

[itlepip]

For 477 not too much to say. The Sharkey read was pretty terrible in my opinion, fine and dandy if you think you can see where as post is coming from, but that does not make someone town. Personally I have found that giving up is generally scummy, and Sharkey still has yet to make a substantive post. Based on the last 'readlist' Sharkey looks to be sheeping you, which makes sense from a survivalist point of view. The problem is that Sharkey really has been as useless this game as Not Mafia, but posts a lot and makes it look like they are contributing. There has to be a limit of 1v1 threats and other posts of similar quality before someone is a lynch target. This entire post is just saying things that are anti-town are town tells, which is really dumb. When someone's entire game is survivalism and OMGUS, they are 80% scum and not helpful to town in any case.

Also on the whole Diamond thing, I have stated before that the switch to Diamond was to put pressure so that he started trying to vote and scumhunt so we could use those things in later days, which clearly worked. Sharkey has and will remain my top scum read this entire day, but in Diamond's case I had to move my vote in order to get past the indifference wall that he had put up saying that he would do nothing d1. The rest of what you said is gut stuff, 1v1s are inherently anti-town and the 'okay' post was just that inactivity late in a day usually occurs when most people agree with a lynch so there isn't anything so say.

[itlepip]

I thought random's post was in this case just a reaction test, that can't be a serious scum read I hope. Associations this early in the game with two scum factions is kinda ridiculous, and that claim was stupid as well. Apricity, if you are going to show up, can you address the big points instead of trying to get Not to talk.

[itlepip]

Don't you agree that it was a ridiculously obvious reaction test?

The one of this page was, the earlier one didn't seem to be one. I still don't think that reaction tests are scummy so I don't agree with your point.

[itlepip]

I agree that reaction tests in themselves aren't scummy. But when one is made as poorly as those both were, then I feel like it's just scum trying to make one so that they can seem pro-town and get towncred.

Reaction tests are generally seen as poor scumhunting and are scummy. I have never heard of reaction tests being a big town read unless you get a good result off of them.

[itlepip]

All I meant is that I have never seen a reaction test be a way that scum try to prove that they are town. It is not impressive scumhunting and Random hasn't tried to take credit from it, so I don't understand why diamond thinks its scummy.

Still disagree about the Sharky read.

[itlepip]

Vote count Day 1.9

Players alive: 13

Players needed to lynch: 7

DiamondSentinel

- 1 - The_Jester - (L-6)

Diego1487

- 4 - Not_Mafia, randomidget, SnarkySnowman, DiamondSentinel - (L-3)

itlepip

- 1 - Sharky5x - (L-6)

Not_Mafia

- 1 - Diego1487 - (L-6)

randomidget

- 2 - A Simple Plan, lilith2013 - (L-5)

Sharky5x

- 2 - itlepip, My Other Head Is Scum - (L-5)

Players not voting: Apricity, Wanderer-nl

Mod notes:
Apricity has requested replacement

Deadline for Day One: (expired on 2015-11-28 15:06:00)

Does this mean no extension?

I will move to Diego if and only if it means a lynch for today. He's been middling for me and I would prefer Sharky, Diamond or Random, but a lynch today is better than no lynch.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Diego

[itlepip]

What Wanderer said. I am probably not going to be on until after the flip, so another wagon is very unlikely

[itlepip]

I said I prefer a random lynch. VOTE: random

[itlepip]

VOTE: Diego Random seems unsuccessful.

[itlepip]

Hey Titus! I don't like the Random's case on jester. 580 posts in saying that a wagon change there was 'shady af' is not a suitable case for mafia. If he is mafia do an iso explanation, but this doesn't cut it by the second day.

VOTE: Random until I see a case.

[itlepip]

I wasn't being lynched because there wasn't time. Not enough people were going to join before the deadline.
It is very beneficial for mafia to have a no lynch.

Why if the mislynch isn't part of their faction? Both scum factions knew that Diego wasn't them, so why would they try to stop the wagon?

[itlepip]

VOTE: DS

Are you townreading Random?

[itlepip]

Hi Titus!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

The fact he still hasn't done anything.
Normally he adds a troll here or there as town (what I've seen anyway).

The random wagon is bad.

I'm not sure what the scum head of mine means with 604. I can see Diamond as NM partner, not much going on between them apart from NM defending him.
However, Diamonds comment isn't an alignment tell neither is it beneficial. He might as well just have said, well ASP died.
I'll get more into this game tomorrow but I'm going to bed now.

-Vedith

1. Why is the random wagon bad?

2.Opinion of Sharky?

[itlepip]

Diamond please...

[itlepip]

if only you worked as hard on your scumhunting as you do on your excuses.

[itlepip]

Hi Titus!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

The fact he still hasn't done anything.
Normally he adds a troll here or there as town (what I've seen anyway).

The random wagon is bad.

I'm not sure what the scum head of mine means with 604. I can see Diamond as NM partner, not much going on between them apart from NM defending him.
However, Diamonds comment isn't an alignment tell neither is it beneficial. He might as well just have said, well ASP died.
I'll get more into this game tomorrow but I'm going to bed now.

-Vedith

1. Why is the random wagon bad?

2.Opinion of Sharky?

The wagon on me is bad because this is my normal playstyle. Note that none of the players except ASP who had played with me before scumread me.

I think we should lynch nm if town can't come to a consensus.

Pretty sure we aren't too far from a consensus on your lynch. That self-meta defense was terrible btw.

[itlepip]

Hi Titus!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

The fact he still hasn't done anything.
Normally he adds a troll here or there as town (what I've seen anyway).

The random wagon is bad.

I'm not sure what the scum head of mine means with 604. I can see Diamond as NM partner, not much going on between them apart from NM defending him.
However, Diamonds comment isn't an alignment tell neither is it beneficial. He might as well just have said, well ASP died.
I'll get more into this game tomorrow but I'm going to bed now.

-Vedith

1. Why is the random wagon bad?

2.Opinion of Sharky?

The wagon on me is bad because this is my normal playstyle. Note that none of the players except ASP who had played with me before scumread me.

I think we should lynch nm if town can't come to a consensus.

Pretty sure we aren't too far from a consensus on your lynch. That self-meta defense was terrible btw.

It wasn't self-meta, I was pointing out that everyone was ignoring the meta other players had done on me.

Where are these other player's defenses? All I see is 'random wagon bad' which doesn't cut it in my book

[itlepip]

Ask titus or either MOHIS head if this is my normal play.

answer pls.

[itlepip]

And why is not_mafia on both of them? NM please explain why you wanted Diego to be lynched yesterday.

It is near prod time for him so you should get an answer soon :P

Also for the previous post I would be looking at Random and Diamond right now, but Not_Mafia and MOHIS are null for me so they are also possible.

[itlepip]

VOTE: DiamondSentinel
Case:

lilith, I suggest that you go look at my previous game's day 1, "Antihero v. Fakegod". You will see that I always fence-sit on D1.

VOTE: Diego

We need a Day 1 lynch, and this is the best candidate.

Oh, and you guys really suck at making a last minute lynch.

First off -1 town point for hypocrisy. Second 'We need a Day 1 lynch, and this is the best candidate.' sounds like scum knowing that the lynch was a mislynch.

Now we get into the fencesitting, bonus points for

lilith, I suggest that you go look at my previous game's day 1, "Antihero v. Fakegod". You will see that I always fence-sit on D1.

and then continuing to fencesit day 2.

Hmm, I've drawn 1 thing from this.

Jester and random seem like scum on opposite sides of the coin.

Okay, so Jester and random are 2 scum, you haven't voted for either though,Continue ...

Diego was getting lynched. Maybe not the next day, but at some point. This means if scum don't lynch him they get a free night phase.

And why did you vote Diego as soon as NM said he wanted to lynch Diego? Because I never got an answer to that question.

Because we needed a consensus and I correctly guessed enough people would be willing to lynch him.

Fine. Diego flipped town so presumably there's at least one scum on one of his wagons.

First wagon: Apricity, Jester, Not_Mafia
Second wagon: Not_mafia, random, snowman (duppin), Diamond, itle, wanderer, MOHIS
Who on these wagons do you think is scum?

If I may, I'll answer this from my perspective.
The fact that NM is on both clearly isn't good for him, and the fact that he just jumped on mine instantly also detracts from his read by me.

I'd say that MOHIS sounds like a decent lynch if was the hammering vote.

Can someone tell me who the hammering vote was? Because I'd bet that's a mafia.

In the mean time, VOTE: Not_Mafia

So since the hammering vote was MOHIS, you support a MOHIS lynch, and then you voted NM because you were blatantly sheeping MOHIS's reason while you are simultaneously scum reading MOHIS. None of this is even looking at both Jester and Random who you also scumread apparently. The best I can figure is that early in the game you were setting yourself up to join either the Jester or Random wagon, now you spy a coming conflict between MOHIS and Not and so you scumread both. You vote the scummier one and support a lynch on the other one. Also I don't buy the 'who hammered' stuff when you guessed correctly who the vote was and it takes 2 seconds to look up in any case.

I'll buy the meh from Titus and Fire on random's meta while there are scummy people.

[itlepip]

So in summary,

First apparently your 'guess' was actually an assumption, I really don't give a shit. This was also the only thing you actually refuted, so I guess the rest of the accusations were right.

Second you suck as town and are just going to sheep everyone else because you are lazy and can't actually formulate reads by yourself so you sheep everyone else. My point here is that WE CAN'T KEEP YOU IN LYLO IF YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT SOMEONE HOLDING YOUR HAND, so with you being really scummy and saying that there is absolutely no reason for us not to lynch you. Scum is not going to kill you when they can just walk over you. Like at best you are a treestump, and some random town is a 2 vote.

Third, and this is the reason I am making my post like this, is that you just stated that your read on me

is the only reason I am alive!!!?!?!?!?!??

What arrogance! How is that right next to I am a lazy town that kinda sucks post. I am used to nooby behavior, but at this point you have played enough games and have had enough time to understand what town's goals are and this level of scumminess really necessitates a lynch.

{This is why my avi was I'm not yelling bdubs}

[itlepip]

Ok, well, he's reading terribly.

What he's been saying Katsuki said almost verbatim last game. Still tried to blame the loss on me even though I was the only one who town-read him/her.

But yeah, it's pretty bad.

Why don't you add me to the scumlist, just keep adding people and eventually one of them must me scum right... Also don't understand the Katsuki stuff, I'm worse at the game but shitpost less, our style is really different, not sure why I even bothered to read of that anyway...

[itlepip]

I'd rather lynch scum than anti-town. itlepip you have any scumreads besides Diamond?

yes you.

[itlepip]

Diamond is too genuine to be scum. Most of what he says is trash, but it's not reading as scum for me.

Disagree with his latest read on itlepip, btw. How is he acting scum as can be? That's how I'd describe you, which is what keeps you alive.

I need NM, Snarky, and Wanderer to start posting. This is quite painful, I happen to be interested in one of the three but he isn't posting at all.

You are noob or scum. Scum can look genuine.

Which one of the three are you interested in?

VOTE: Diamond

Fire found.

Itepip, let's mason this bitch till we are dead.

cool.

[itlepip]

I'll post whenever I feel like posting. You could speed up the process by engaging with me but just randomly saying I need to post isn't going to do it. I'm busy this week, I'll do some reads on the weekend.

Diamond read?

[itlepip]

Diamond isn't even close to being lynched here, why are you scared of hammering someone at l-4?

[itlepip]

Wanderer, you want an answer to your playstyle v. scum-thing?

Look at Antihero v. Fakegod and Guild of Dungeoneering Mafia. You will find my playstyle there.

Do you have any scum games we can look at?

[itlepip]

Haven't been scum yet on-site.

then stop trying to use meta, we have nothing to compare it to.

Also NM is in need of a prod now.

[itlepip]

how about you guys stop saying is directly scum because I do certain things. Since my behavior is exhibited as town, but you have no evidence for scum, why not just call this inconclusive. I act like this as town, and you don't know what I'm like as scum.

cause you post like this. This is saying that since I can't prove that you are mafia, I should just say that your are town. I don't even like meta reads that much, so when you post scummy and don't do anything to achieve the town wincon you are scum and should be lynched. I refuse to wait until you have a scum game in order for me to be able to lynch you.

Pedit: lol yes.

[itlepip]

That exactly what I'm not saying. I'm saying leave that as a null read and atop mentioning it. I'm not asking to be town-read. I'm asking to not be shittly scum-read.

Can everyone jump on this wagon please...

[itlepip]

Y'know what, Titus, you've got 3 people on me. Hammer is 6. I'll deal with my scum reads and you have fun with me. In the meantime, I suggest you find someone who more people are scum reading to pursue.

Snarky how is this town!!! I'm almost at 1v1 certainty that Diamond is mafia, his reactions go from being really defensive to flippant about me and Titus's push as soon as he sees that being defensive doesn't work. Again, unless you Also NM I think is getting replaced once the mod shows up so that wagon isn't going anywhere fast.

[itlepip]

why don't you just claim jester?

@Sharky My point is that I am pretty sure that Diamond won't be NKed outside of a doctor claim. For me there is nothing Diamond can do from here on out to make himself look any scummier, so except in the very unlikely circumstance that he makes an actual defense for himself, not lynching Diamond here means to me that town is fine with Diamond endgaming or expect him to miraculously not be reading nearly half of the players in the game as scum simultaneously. The other lynch, NM, is someone that is again being replaced here and I don't think anyone can read NM at all since he doesn't post. So people would rather lynch a random slot then kill someone who only makes scummy posts. GAHHHH [/rant]

Also when diamond flips scum (if fire) Sharky is looking really good after that last post for being a scum buddy.

[itlepip]

@Diamond, stop saying that other people are dumb. First of all it is a personnel attack and second its pretty pot calling the kettle black imo. Both MOHIS and NM are lazy lazy scum reads. Being on both wagons isn't as bad as the vast majority of your posts, and someone has to hammer and I think there was nothing particularly scummy with his hammer.

[itlepip]

arma, is NM getting replaced here?

[itlepip]

oh, thought you were here

[itlepip]

this is fun

[itlepip]

Sharky, first off I am pretty sure that Diamond is scum. Second the way I see it even if Diamond is town here we can't have him in lylo, so either we lynch him sometime or we find all scum before lylo. Since I think Heim is scum and if he is town he isn't going to help us, we should just lynch him here.

[itlepip]

Do you see a scum motivation in him very obviously not contributing to the game? I feel like if he were scum, his partner would have told him to look as town as possible & try to scumhunt, or at least not draw this much attention to himself.

Yes, he's new scum. Scum lurking is a strategy but DS is failing to active lurk. Both teams scumhunt, but someone refusing to share is probably scum.

Town has zero reason to play as DS does.

I'm so glad that you think this way, but how about we deal with the scum who's clearly hiding behind your beef with me. You realize that by arguing about me every
single
day
is letting the actual scum hide? In fact, I feel like you're trying to do that. Why else would you waste both days talking to me? If you think that I'm scum, then you'd get me lynched immediately instead of trying to drag it out. VOTE: Titus.

Stop
Distracting
The town
From your scum buddies

A. How do you know that Titus has scum buddies?
B. She is talking to you because she wants you dead because you are scum. The way town lynchs scum is by convincing the rest of town that you are scum. That right now is my first priority since in my eyes we have confirmed scum here is to see you lynched, so I want the game to focus on your lynch until town agrees to lynch you.
C. Nice OMGUS, that is 5/12 people you are scum reading. Why not add 1 more and read half the players as scum?

I don't understand why Diamond hasn't been lynched yet. How scummy does he have to be before you lynch him?

[itlepip]

Regardless of the repercussions it has on town?

You are 100% positive you will be doing this?

Yes, cause here are the implications for town, 1 less scum. That's it, nothing else is going to happen. You are attempting to sound edgy and threatening, but it doesn't work at all.

If this is trying to softclaim just claim, empty threats are not going to get people off your wagon. If you don't claim my vote is staying on you for the rest of the day aside from hammering.

Look I get survivalism, I've done it before, but at a certain point you have to actually try to discover scum.

PEdit: honesty, again, everyone that isn't voting for diamond is okay with that quality of posting in lylo. Like he's framing not responding in 10 minutes as scummy because he knows that he doesn't have a case, but he needs people to scumread Titus to weaken his wagon. If I weren't genuinely scum reading Diamond here I would be advocating for a policy on account of that last post.

[itlepip]

Do you see a scum motivation in him very obviously not contributing to the game? I feel like if he were scum, his partner would have told him to look as town as possible & try to scumhunt, or at least not draw this much attention to himself.

Yes, he's new scum. Scum lurking is a strategy but DS is failing to active lurk. Both teams scumhunt, but someone refusing to share is probably scum.

Town has zero reason to play as DS does.

I'm so glad that you think this way, but how about we deal with the scum who's clearly hiding behind your beef with me. You realize that by arguing about me every
single
day
is letting the actual scum hide? In fact, I feel like you're trying to do that. Why else would you waste both days talking to me? If you think that I'm scum, then you'd get me lynched immediately instead of trying to drag it out. VOTE: Titus.

Stop
Distracting
The town
From your scum buddies

A. How do you know that Titus has scum buddies?
B. She is talking to you because she wants you dead because you are scum. The way town lynchs scum is by convincing the rest of town that you are scum. That right now is my first priority since in my eyes we have confirmed scum here is to see you lynched, so I want the game to focus on your lynch until town agrees to lynch you.
C. Nice OMGUS, that is 5/12 people you are scum reading. Why not add 1 more and read half the players as scum?

I don't understand why Diamond hasn't been lynched yet. How scummy does he have to be before you lynch him?

A. Because the last scum in their team wouldn't act like that.
B. You are so stupid... Let me just say that... All of you who think I'm scum are stupid right now. Just sayin
C. It's not an OMGUS. An OMGUS would have been me voting her right after she voted me. That makes me think that you're scum as well. And just because I scum read someone doesn't mean I think they are all scum. It just means that I think their actions are scumming. You're being ridiculous. And because I scum-read someone at one point doesn't mean I scum-read them for all eternity.

Oops missed this gem of a post
A. What is 'that'? This could not be any more vague
B. So you couldn't refute that, cool. You are resorting to name-calling as a defense now, why? Why do you play this game when you refuse to defend yourself and refuse to scumhunt? Like what other aspect of the game do you enjoy because what you are refusing to do as you can see is the plurality of what this game is about. This point is why I really am starting to think that Diamond is trolling, I really feel like he is trying to not participate in the game as much as he can while still posting a ton.
C. Okay, it is not an OMGUS, it is an unsubstantiated vote with no case at all with the intent of trying to weaken the wagon without looking to find scum. The reason I do that is that you never say, oh blah-blah is towny now or build a case on the person you are voting for. Your reads feel like they are only there so you can say you have reads.

[itlepip]

Can Not Mafia say things that are more than one or two lines?

Also again I buy DS being town and would really like to not lynch him today.

You really buy that doctor claim?

I don't buy Diamond's claim with him not saying who he saved, so I am inclined to believe not or titus or whatever TF is going on there. If diamond has some crumbs he would like to share I would appreciate it, but I think DS's claim is pretty garbage.

[itlepip]

WHAT IS THIS .3.

Was about to call BS on everything DS is saying, but 761 actually kinda makes sense from his newbie perspective. He did freak out about lynching PRs day one.

This could be helpful, we got 1 confirmed scum inside of {Diamond, NM}. I'm thinking about the possibility of NM being doctor, maybe he hasn't been posting much to avoid bringing attention to himself and therefore avoiding the NK. That and Diamond's heal doesn't make much sense.

Also I don't think anyone this game has scumread lilith, so that kill and save makes a load of sense. I really doubt that ice mafia targeted wanderer though unless there was some interaction that I missed, wanderer has not been a huge influence on the game.

[itlepip]

Fine. Lynch me and lose the doctor. I'm fine with it. But good riddance.

PEdit: The word fake claim if you're asking about a town-read makes it loaded.

he said that he didn't think that you were doctor... how is fake claim loaded wtf.

[itlepip]

Oh christmas tree oh christmas tree

VOTE: Diamond Sentinel

you were already voting diamond...

[itlepip]

Those are literally all NM's posts this whole game. I've never played with him before but...???

this is how he plays every game regardless of alignment.

[itlepip]

Those are literally all NM's posts this whole game. I've never played with him before but...???

this is how he plays every game regardless of alignment.

Separate question, how do you not see this as anti-town?

it is antitown, but he is either doctor or we lynch him tomorrow

[itlepip]

VOTE: Not
tomorrow assuming I live I am in favor of a snarky lynch, I feel like he was whiteknighting Diamond yesterday.

[itlepip]

And why is not_mafia on both of [Diego's wagons]? NM please explain why you wanted Diego to be lynched [Day 1].

Please answer my question.

Why would he answer your questions now that he is conf scum?

[itlepip]

Oh and intent to hammer NM after some discussion and a claim.

My money's on him not posting any more.

[itlepip]

White knighting? Psh I genuinely thought he was just an easy mislynch. His claiming didn't help either. Yet y'all lynched without really taking a moment on that. Sharky, Itlepip and NM are my remaining scum choices.

Yet not Titus..? Interesting.

I'm easier to push than Titus

[itlepip]

Could we discuss the motives behind fakeclaiming doctor? I don't get why.

sure, I think it was a smart move (assuming NM is fire). NM wasn't living that long with his post rate, and an un-CCed doc, regardless of how scummy they have been all game, probably isn't going to get lynched. Normally you would just kill doc but with the kills canceling there is a layer of WIFOM and you could end up in a situation where the doc lives the whole game and can make some useful saves and get confirms. Also I think NM was apathetic with the game at that point and wanted out, based on his posting frequency. That said I am not sure who is his partner yet since I've been assuming that Diamond was scum. Snarky moves up on my list, but I also have a paranoia MOHIS world. I'm still reading over stuff to find potential partners.

[itlepip]

White knighting? Psh I genuinely thought he was just an easy mislynch. His claiming didn't help either. Yet y'all lynched without really taking a moment on that. Sharky, Itlepip and NM are my remaining scum choices.

Yet not Titus..? Interesting.

Who threw the hammer down with 6 RL days left?

That doesn't answer why Titus is conf town in your eyes if everyone else is scum (not counting not who is conf scum).

[itlepip]

Did I ever say titus is conf town? No. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Sorry I didn't mean conf.

Okay quick readlist, NM is conf scum. There is Jester who has lurked NM style the whole game and I'm leaning for ice-mafia, Lilith who is towny, and Titus is probably town. Then there is Sharky and Snarky. Sharky has been scummy the whole game and was trying to get authority before hammering yesterday, snarky feels like classic whiteknighting, they knew that they would be bussing NM the next day so they held that position the day before when it was clear Diamond was getting lynched.

[itlepip]

My read list

itlepip - probs scum
lilith2013 - Maybe town???
My Other Head Is Scum - probs town
Not_Mafia - conf anti-town, probs scum
Sharky5x - scum
SnarkySnowman - me
The_Jester - Lurker, will read
Titus - Maybe scum???

Call it white knighting, but I thought the whole lynch on Diamond was really weak and premature with all the other things I had out there on the table. Sharky's hammer was scummy af.

And once again, I told you so.

You think sharky is more likely to flip scum than Diamond? Like I support the Sharky lynch but wow.

[itlepip]

White knighting? Psh I genuinely thought he was just an easy mislynch. His claiming didn't help either. Yet y'all lynched without really taking a moment on that. Sharky, Itlepip and NM are my remaining scum choices.

Yet not Titus..? Interesting.

I'm easier to push than Titus :P

You high?

no. Are we lynching jester tomorrow or snarky/sharky?

Pedit: if NM flips town I will completely rage at him, I will put large sums of money on him being scum, which I am not willing to do with sharky.

[itlepip]

There's only 3 scum left and you have 4 scum reads and like no solid town reads.

lilith, I think you are the closest to confirmed town here, what are your reads?

[itlepip]

Sure. I'll talk mostly in terms of scum teams, since I don't have any super solid townreads.

NM is basically confscum.
Snarky has been pinging me pretty hard. He defended Diamond, saying he was town, then said he didn't completely believe the doctor claim. I'd like to know why he thought Diamond might fakeclaim. Also, he kept defending Diamond but never tried to redirect town onto a new wagon who he thought was scum.
Jester was pinging me D1 and I think I shouldn't have backed off that read. He's been hardcore lurking. I would put Jester and NM on opposite teams, I think.
MOHIS: at first I got good vibes, seemed like they were really making an effort to contribute; has since basically disappeared.

So my favored combinations of scum atm are NM/Snarky/Jester and NM/Snarky/MOHIS. If the former, I would think Snarky/Jester are fire and NM is ice. If the latter, I think MOHIS/Snarky are fire. I could also see itle/Sharky as fire scum. For players who scumread each other for half the game, you guys sure are on a lot of wagons together.

uhh, Lilith NM is 90% fire scum. You don't counterclaim, especially a support role, this early in the game as the sole survivor.

I didn't CC doctor

lol

We really should have lynched Not Mafia yesterday, and both Titus and Not Mafia look horrible for that lynch.
But Not Mafia looks slightly worse.

VOTE: Not Mafia

Didn't check votes but I think thats hammer.

-Fire

okay, after this post I am ready to hear a MOHIS case.

I'm limited access till Thursday (tomorrow, mobile only atm). And Sharky has significantly more content than not mafia which is why I can have a stronger read. Tell me, how was diamond more conf scum than nm yesterday?

The scumminess in whiteknighting isn't that you are townreading a player that is being wagoned, it is that scum tries to play off their correct read for town points. this is a classic example of a scum reaction after whiteknighting.

Oh, and saying that I have posted more makes me more scummy than confirmed scum Not_Mafia is complete crap.

snarky is probably the other fire mafia based on this stuff with Not today.

[itlepip]

Itlepip, you can read it whatever way you like. That makes sense in a game with one scum faction, where if I were scum I'd know for a fact he were town. But consider reading it otherwise:

I'm town thinking he's town.
I'm ice scum, and I think he's town.
I'm fire scum thinking he's town.

In all of those cases, I can't know for certain diamond is town.

I'm gonna get some quotes and shit to support my reads when I get home to my pc on thurs.

If you are fire you would know that NM was counterclaiming. Any doctor would counterclaim at that point to catch two scum, so you can assume that Diamond is doctor. Try again please.

[itlepip]

I'm sorry could you say that again???

You are fire scum and you knew diamond was town.

[itlepip]

Could you explain why he's fire and not ice? Who do you think ice is?

Jester, MOHIS or sharky are my top picks as long as NM does flip fire. I don't see him flipping ice but if he does all my reads right now are worthless. Snarky is probably his partner because of his whiteknighting yesterday. If he was ice he wouldn't know that NM was the fake claim, but as fire he would.

[itlepip]

I didn't CC Doctor

Look he is trying to give Snarky something to go off of. I think this plan for scum sucks but if scum is going to run with it we know that snarky is the other fire mafia.

[itlepip]

this is funny.

[itlepip]

Or throwing out the only person he can to make himself look town.

Nope, you are scum.

-Vedith

you'd better start explaining this.

[itlepip]

you'd better start explaining this.

It's already been explained, read back.
CC the doc and not under the spot light. 10/10 play.

-Vedith

That post read as a joke I thought. Tell me where you disagree
0). Assuming Titus is mafia
1). NM is mafia
2). NM is fire mafia
3). Ice mafia doesn't CC because they can't win in that situation
4). Titus is therefore fire mafia and counterclaiming her partner?

So you think that Titus counterclaimed her partner when her partner was ccing and then advocated for the lynch of the person that disproves both of them?

[itlepip]

Nope

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

lillith is not ice scum

I may or may not have claimed doctor

[itlepip]

MOHIS, do you still think NM is scum with Titus or do you think that NM is town?

[itlepip]

Just hammer.

[itlepip]

well VOTE: Snarky

[itlepip]

Actually UNVOTE: worried about scum quick hammering in case I am missing scum right now, snarky please do the same

[itlepip]

wait do we actually want to lynch scum right now? If we lynch town then the two scum will probably want to kill each other. If they both miss then we have 2 scum versus 1 town which I think is a town win 50% of the time. If 1 misses we are in lylo 2 which is the worst situation for us, and at best the two scum kill each other.

[itlepip]

Not saying that this is the best play, but it is something we should consider.

[itlepip]

@Armaggedon Can mafia NK themself?

[itlepip]

Okay, long theory discussion,

All of the following is assuming that MOHIS is about 15% fire mafia, snarky is 85% fire mafia and Jester is 100% ice mafia. They are in order of preference.

1) If we lynch me or lilith, Jester will know for certain that he will be NKed. If he decides that fire mafia should win or tries to have town win and picks wrong fire mafia fire mafia wins, so my original post was wrong.

2) If we lynch MOHIS, we get a game theory win. If he flips town both mafia should try to kill each other and we win, and if he flips fire then we lynch jester the next day. The problem with this is that if he flips town, for each mafia, their kill picks which team loses and they have no chance of winning. I think there is a fair chance of one of them picking the other mafia over town, and in the end I think that given that we have better options we shouldn't trust the game to the mafia players.

3).If we lynch Snarky we get the same thing but with better odds

4).If we lynch Jester, then we get a standard lylo situation between Snarky, MOHIS and 1 of me or lilith. There is no chance of mafia sabotaging this.

5).If we lynch no one, then we get the same situation as killing town but with more of a buffer. Jester will always be killed by fire mafia, if he chooses me or lilith we get put in the lylo situation, if he chooses MOHIS or snarky town always wins.

There is 1 feature that you can argue 4 is better than 5. If you relax assuming that lilith or me can't be ice mafia, then killing jester and having him flip town will put us in the 2v2 which is still a game theory win for town. Every other 1 of these theories we will lose if ice mafia is outside of Jester, so this is a good contingency.

So I will support only a jester or no lynch today.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Jester, I think 4 is my preferred plan right now.

[itlepip]

That doesn't seem like town motivated logic at all.

I wanted to correct myself because I realized that what I had suggested was the worst possible move for town. You didn't even consider game theory before you voted, and you still haven't explained that vote.

[itlepip]

@Armaggedon Can mafia NK themself?

Yes

[itlepip]

Koggz I love how you are going about this, but understand that I can't understand at all what you are saying, so at some point make sure to formally ask questions and make reads so we can interact with you.

(might rethink the 100%, we will see).

[itlepip]

Really we cannot understand you Koggz...

[itlepip]

You do know that Diamond isn't here anymore...

If we are going to talk about Diamond's playstyle it should be postgame.

[itlepip]

Yeah lilith, what I think Koggz is doing is trying to make there is chance that we are ice scum so my analysis doesn't work. I'll wait for him to get fully caught up but I'm not convinced yet. He hasn't actually said anything but weak wach or strong.

Pedit: fire why snarky and not koggz?

[itlepip]

fire why snarky and not koggz?

Gut.
He could be other scum, but I am not getting any scum vibes from him right now.

Who do you think ice scum is then?

[itlepip]

fire why snarky and not koggz?

Gut.
He could be other scum, but I am not getting any scum vibes from him right now.

I can't read his posts at all, the reads are 3 words at most and there is no analysis.

[itlepip]

PAGETOP

[itlepip]

Itlepip ice and Lilith fire is the tldr. I don't think lynching town is the right way to go though

it isn't, I made that whole long post about why that post was wrong if you have good scumreads.

[itlepip]

:facepalm: why did he self-vote?

I really think that is a troll account. Thelhix did the same selfvote thing.

[itlepip]

I honestly think that koggz is still scum here. her selfvote felt really fake to me, her readthrough feels really weak. It feels like at a certain point (d2 onward) she picked her scumreads first to try to save himself and then picked posts to look at. Like in the Diego lynch, snarky also supported it but she doesn't even mention that, but when lilith says she supports a diamond lynch in the future that is scummy. I also can't actually talk about her reasoning because she doesn't give any.

[itlepip]

@MOHIS, do you really think that koggz selfvote came from town there? One of her scumreads said that lynching the most conftown would be best (and then took it back), and that is enough for her to gambit herself?

Pedit: why does lilith get 2 nks? For this part I am going to assume that koggz's world is right just to show why it doesn't make sense, but I don't see lilith being scum and I am town here.
[koggz world]
If we lynch you, then from my point of view no matter what I lose. I get to choose between lilith winning and town winning. Since town found every scum the better play is to no lynch today or to lynch one of the scum, so that they win the next day no matter what scum does during night. If we were actually in your fantasy world, then what you did would still be wrong since it is the only play that gives scum a chance to win.
[/koggz world]
In conclusion Koggz's selfvote doesn't make sense from any perspective, which means it is a gambit. No scum would ever quickhammer koggz because if she somehow is town the other scum would NK them, and if Koggz is scum then town would just lynch the quick hammerer. So Koggz is safe in that she won't be punished for her gambit, so the only point is to look towny. The goal of town here is to out both scum, looking towny doesn't actually accomplish anything since we have so many scum, so the gambit feels really scummy to me.

[itlepip]

I'm not insane, that was the hammer right?

[itlepip]

Lol ggs

[itlepip]

They got lucky. I changed my kill to MOHIS 1 hour before deadline.

[itlepip]

Super nope. No lynch is the best play by far. You guys got really lucky that me and MOHIS found each other. Holy shit MOHIS wasn't trying to kill mafia, I am super salty right now.

[itlepip]

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooq

[itlepip]

YOU'RE ONLY MAKING IT WORSE.

You know what, I'm just going to mentally count this at as a win and ignore that MOHIS did that at the end. I'm proud of how I played it, Lilith you were good as well.

*sigh

[itlepip]

I spent so much time figuring out what I could convince town to do to try to maximize my chances of winning... As soon as I get some distance from this I am going to appreciate the irony.

Pedit: why were you trying to kill town that night?

[itlepip]

what? But town wants a no lynch in that situation?