Open 622 - Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Ricastle]

Anyone can have balls, Percivul. One for each time they call the landlord to fix the taps.

VOTE: Kop

[Ricastle]

Also, I haven't so much as seen the names of anyone here besides Persivul & Vedith. Should make this interesting.

[Ricastle]

The who, now?

[Ricastle]

Oh, I know what Kop is. I was just confused as there didn't seem to be a player with the initials 'IC' in the game. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Ricastle]

Good enough for now I say.

VOTE: Persivul

[Ricastle]

Can people just invent a reason for voting me, please? RVS when gone wrong brings nothing to the table, as we can see here.

[Ricastle]

Why do you want people to invent a reason to vote you? Other then the afformentioned RVS thing.

That is the only reason. Should it not suffice? I am currently the largest wagon and nobody could care less about it. We're not going to get anywhere expecting the game to move itself forward. So either legitimise my wagon or disband it, I say.

Meh, I'm typically very aggressive D1 and generate a lot of content, but people scum reading me for it lately has dampened my enthusiasm. The whole idea of the game is that an un

inform

ed majority has to generate

information

, but not may people appreciate that fact anymore.

What are you trying to say here?

What's stopping you from doing the same? It's not like you've really done anything to help us break out of RVS.

I'm doing something right now. Also, those are big words coming from someone who has done literally nothing thus far.

[Ricastle]

Reacting is a lot easier than pushing, yes, especially for a player as unmotivated as I. That is true for either alignment.

Those posts made me feel at least marginally better about you, though, so now VOTE: SnarkySnowman

[Ricastle]

What phenomenal and insightful contribution. I'd give it a 7/10.

[Ricastle]

UNVOTE: whoever i'm voting

VOTE: ricastle

For trying too hard.

Haha what? I'm not trying at all. Get it sorted.

What do

you

make of Snarky saying absolute jack shit in his first contribution of the game?

[Ricastle]

Okay, now that's fucking annoying. For a multitude of reasons.

[Ricastle]

Do you want a five paragraph essay on why you're scum based on the first 4 pages?

Or perhaps a comparison showing the pot calling the kettle black?

VOTE: Ricastle

No, but I know a buffoon when I see one. Think about it. What possible motivation is there as any alignment to vote an IC? That's right - reaction testing to catch out people such as yourself. If you honestly think that the contents of said test are solid enough ground to place a vote/scumread then you are either extremely naive town or extremely gullible scum. And considering you have done nothing but take the easy path thus far I'm going to go with the latter until a better lead presents itself.

[Ricastle]

No. (I don't like being told what to do without good reason.)

[Ricastle]

That is subjective. And as it so happens, I disagree.

[Ricastle]

Then our definitions of fun clearly differ, my friend. For instance, there are few things I find more amusing than petty arguments.

[Ricastle]

Did you look in a mirror?

I knew you were probably fishing for reactions but that felt pretty scummy / not town-motivated to me. Hence the vote.

You know the more you say that now, the less value it's going to hold, right?

What about it was scummy? If you knew it was most likely fishing, which is undisputedly town-motivated, what is there to convince you otherwise?

[Ricastle]

So if it was a reaction test, what was your rubric for what is a town reaction versus a non-town reaction?

I was expecting scum to make a significantly bigger deal out of it than town, if anything.

[Ricastle]

If it was an obvious ploy, why?

Felt like you were trying to create some early mislynch fodder if anything, I can't see any town-motivated reason to do that.

From the get-go scum are going to be hunting for a position to cement themselves in. My vote was effectively an open invitation for scum looking to park somewhere, even if they

knew

it was an obvious ploy - in which case they would simply justify their stance on another basis later, which is exactly what you're doing now.

[Ricastle]

You 'found' a scum - why were you voting me before then? Waiting for a justification before bringing too much attention to yourself?

I don't have an awesome plan. What I did was

very

simple, and would only have worked on relatively inexperienced players. I'm certain you should know that with as much experience as I assume you have, and if anything, I was expecting you to call attention to it.

[Ricastle]

144 is arguably the worst post in the game thus far.

VOTE: Lowell

[Ricastle]

Was that Snarky vote post a reaction test in any way? Because otherwise it's you who has no excuse.

Why are you acting so apathetic towards me considering you have made out that you are almost certain I am scum? I mean, you're practically treating me as an equal among the others voting you now. No attempt to single me out. And your post is written in a way that makes it seem as if you know that logically it should work as a deterrent to the entire wagon.

[Ricastle]

Was your Snarky vote serious on any level?

Also, this

ricastle (who is sad that I caught him so easily)

sounds, at worst, quite confident to me.

[Ricastle]

So why in the blue hell did you put aside your scumread on me to bandwagon a nullread - what's more, with me being said wagon's leader! Makes no sense at all.

[Ricastle]

This guy is just so full of holes that I simply cannot comprehend him being town anymore.

[Ricastle]

You're being fallacious. Consistency isn't a towntell, but blatant inconsistency is without question a scumtell to me.

[Ricastle]

I could go for Karnage, but I think that it would make more sense for him to have switched the way he did if he was bussing.

[Ricastle]

Who am I supposedly bussing?

[Ricastle]

...wait, what? You forgot about the traitor's existence, and therefore you assumed there were two scum in 13P? No, that doesn't sound right to me at all.

I'm pretty sure the only people who would naturally assume there are only two scum would be those who see only two players in their scumchat.

VOTE: Karnage

[Ricastle]

or it was an honest mistake.

should I be voting you because you don't know how many players are in the game?

12P, 13P, it's the same thing. And it's not remotely on the level of forgetting there is a third scum in the game because you forgot about the traitor. You're far from a complete newbie, and it's therefore inconceivable to me that you would just forget how many scum were in a game this size.

[Ricastle]

Thoughts on Karnage, Zulfy?

[Ricastle]

How much have you read? I can't believe that you wouldn't have any reads after being fully caught up.

What pings are you getting from Mario?

[Ricastle]

We have two trains right now, do you find them both to be town?

I could ask you the same question.

[Ricastle]

My vote isn't on someone with only my one vote.

Why aren't you voting Karnage?

Stayed on Lowell too long.

For the record, you were on Lowell for longer than I, my friend.

In regards to Lowell's post, I find it quite common for scum to act incredulous when they are wagoned for what seems like minuscule/awful reasoning from their perspective. So I really don't see that as a towntell.

Also, guys, can we please talk about 208, because I seriously believe that's a slip?

[Ricastle]

The slip:

Nevermind. I'm an idiot. I was waiting for you to say snarky then i was going to ask how me, snarky, and Lowell could all be scum but I forgot about the mafia traitor.

I'm guessing what he's getting at is that most people would assume 3 scum in a game with this many players. There's only going to be two people in scumchat due to the traitor, so it makes sense for scum to slip up and forget about the traitor when counting the number of scum in the game.

Also, Zulfy's probably the Traitor.

[Ricastle]

Karnage was going to ask how I could think three people were scum. This implies that he believed the scumteam consisted of less than 3 people. He corrects himself by remembering the existance of a traitor.

What townie would assume there were two scum in a 12P if they forgot a traitor existed, let alone a townie with multiple years on-site experience?

Obviously, the traitor isn't mentioned in the other scum's role PMs, and isn't in their PT. This would make it easy for one of those two scum to forget there was a traitor and

then

assume there were only two scum. This is the only standpoint from which his assumption makes sense.

[Ricastle]

He read 209 where I accused him of assuming there were only two scum, and brushed it off as an honest mistake, with no further attempt being made to clarify his post's true meaning. If what you say were correct, I think he would have made it clear by now.

Fair, but I was mostly referring to the traitor's name. Also, this is an open so it would be easy for them to find that basic information out anyway. Without a name to associate with the role, it's much more possible to forget about it.

[Ricastle]

Why? What have I said that is wrong?

[Ricastle]

You wanted to end that line of questioning after you lost the punchline so you wouldn't have to awkwardly drop it later.

But let's say you're town. Why did you think there was only two scum?

[Ricastle]

Would you like to explain your reasoning there?

UNVOTE:

Well for starters, I really don't like this "scumping" thing you're doing. It appears to me like you're using it to create scumreads objectively without having to bear those reads on yourself. In other words, extremely cautious play that I can't see coming from town.

239 is also quite bad. I was expecting you to have not read the whole game, but to have done so and not get any reads out of it? That's not town. As I said, it seems more like you are too paranoid that any reads you make up will be jumped on, to me.

And it seems like the only times you go on the attack are when you get attacked, as we can see with Mario & jmo. I also find it funny how one minute you're attacking jmo and the next you're explaining yourself to him.

And the traitor part is simply because I have this feeling that you know who both your partners are. I mean, I can't exactly name a third scum as of now, but your passive play seems more like you are not only afraid of upsetting town, but scum, as well.

[Ricastle]

When? Why?

[Ricastle]

Still here, hi.

Thoughts on Karnage, Zulfy & jmo?

[Ricastle]

I think it was pretty obvious that I was asking for the actual reasons why, bub.

[Ricastle]

Get a bloody move on guys jesus christ.

[Ricastle]

check my meta

If I hadn't, do you think I would have been at all confident in making that statement? You only have two completed games, anyway. In neither did you employ scumpings anywhere near as frequently.

WIFOM, whaddaya want me to do?

How the fuck is that WIFOM?? To have absolutely no reads as town after these first 10 pages is incomprehensible to me, unless you're restrained or afraid somehow, either scenario not being town.

But I am making reads. Quality over quantity yo

What reads? Come on, tell me. I want nothing more from you than some opinions on the gamestate right now.

That's probably cuz that's when it's the easiest to reply.

Yeah, precisely. That's why scum do it.

I can do both. I should do both. Everyone should do both. I'm not going to cement the guy as my enemy and refuse to cooperate with him in any way. I have no firm reads, I need to get people's opinions on things. This is what a town-player does. This is what a mafia player trying to look town should do. Basically this is good play and everyone should emulate it.

There is a difference between not acting as if your scumreads are 100% confirmed scum, and both attacking and reasoning with a player in the same breath. What the latter indicates to me is that you know your attack target is town, yet you still need to get them off your tail.

I don't like upsetting

Regardless of your alignment, you are basically playing with a scum mindset here, so. If you're town it would do you good to learn from this.

[Ricastle]

I think it was pretty obvious that I was asking for the actual reasons why, bub.

Marcrell, don't ignore me. Why is the Karnage slip reasoning horrid?

[Ricastle]

Coincidence. I haven't had anything really to add, but I'm still here.

And you're back on the scumlist.

[Ricastle]

I for one am loving the pace of this thing

So much so that you aren't interested in answering things directed to you, it seems!

[Ricastle]

Flashwagon HOOOOOOOO

VOTE: Zulfy

[Ricastle]

You've seen me as scum twice now, Percy. Does my play here so much as remotely resemble either of those instances?

Vote Zulfy. Surely you can see how obvious it is that he is scum as much as I can?

[Ricastle]

The lynch will either be vt or a goon.

Im not really worried about it.

?????????

[Ricastle]

Give me a day please.

What's the desperation for? Why do you need that day?

Because there's no slip. He could have not been paying attention to the roles. He could have been thinking about other games like he said. I'm not the biggest fan of Karnage play, but you're trying to make something out of nothing.

Laughable. Laughable! You have no reasoning!

[Ricastle]

You're the one that needs to do the explaining - namely, why I should stay on a wagon where at least half its occupants disagree completely with my sole reason for being on it.

[Ricastle]

Little annoys me more than people who refuse to correct themselves.

[Ricastle]

Anyone who believes this is scumplay is either scum themselves or a severely disillusioned individual at best. There is no logic to driving a scumpartner to L-1 only to attempt to deform their wagon at the last minute. I'm not a chicken-shit coward when it comes to bussing. If I resolve to do so, I will bloody well follow it through. Even I, who fully recognises the dramatic mediocrity of my scumplay, am insulted that you would place it at such a level.

As I said - if you would jump on such a thing as the optimal D1 wagon you are either overconfident scum or town that has given up on a truly meaningful lynch today in at least one form. I believe you, at least, Persivul, to be in the latter category, so I implore you to cease this foolishness and vote the overwhelmingly likely candidate for scum Zulfy, the entirety of whom's play thus far has directly contradicted a town mindset.

[Ricastle]

I like what I'm seeing! Keep 'er goin', people, keep 'er goin'!

[Ricastle]

By the way, pal, just to update you: You aren't getting another day. This is your last chance to produce quantifiable content.

[Ricastle]

Wow, you guys seriously don't have a problem with someone jumping off an L-1 wagon with absolutely no reason given? Interesting.

I did give a reason; you're just selectively reading.

[Ricastle]

Zulfy is the lynch that is happening today. His last stand was pitiful, and he is clearly far too paranoid in general. Let's just get it done and be finished with this day. Lowell said everything I wanted to about those unvotes - might actually need to look into Persivul if Zulfy flips scum now.

[Ricastle]

intent to hammer

i'm tired of this.
karnage or zulfy. i don't even really care. to be honest.

they're both mafia anyway.

There's nothing to hammer! Please do the next best thing though which is voting Zulfy.

[Ricastle]

True. I've been bored as hell for a week now. I'd like to replace out but that would be cruel to subject a replacement to this lame-ass game. This phase was too long. It shouldn't have been extended for the holiday, which came at the beginning of phase anyway. I understand a holiday extension if phase is near ending, but in this case it wasn't needed. It feels like we've been playing this for a month.

If you don't care about this game then stop trying to control it. Doing so in such an apathetic state is nothing less than completely obstructive.

[Ricastle]

I don't believe there has been any semblance of a case presented against Karnage by anyone on his wagon right now. The only point against him I can find whatsoever is that his attack targets were changing based on where pressure was being applied, which isn't even necessarily scumplay. So if the slip is being denied as evidence then the wagon is, quite frankly, utter shit.

[Ricastle]

LMAO

[Ricastle]

VOTE: Karnage

[Ricastle]

For the slip, obviously.

Do either of you have anything substantial to bring to the table or are you just going to loiter around like crows?

[Ricastle]

My vote was an act far more meaningful than nothing but useless concurrence with a "contradiction" that is clearly flawed.

I haven't paid enough attention to the scum's role options to make a decision regarding that. Why did you? Who says the traitor wasn't taken?

[Ricastle]

I wasn't talking to you. Also, for the record, I'm not going to take any criticism that surmounts to "Karnage must have just forgotten/been confused!" seriously.

[Ricastle]

No they wouldn't because unless another PR flips, there is no evidence to suggest that scum took anything.

My point is that we have no way of knowing the fate of the Traitor. What are you trying to achieve with these questions, might I ask? You're a goon cop that checked me last night, is that it?

Either of those could be scum, Genda moreso. I've tended to give Mario an automatic townread whenever I play with him recently which is a habit I realise should be dropped swiftly.

[Ricastle]

You're trying to discern whether I'm innocent or not based on what I think (or would know) the scum chose in regards to the Traitor.

[Ricastle]

Marcrell and Karnage are scum.

[Ricastle]

Wait a second... I don't understand, you unvoted Karnage when it got to L-1 because you saw no reason to be on it other then the whole slip thing which pretty much everyone disagreed with. And yet your first action of day 2 is to vote Karnage... if you still think Karnage was scum why did you unvote him on day 1?

VOTE: Ricastle

The Zulfy wagon appeared a safer bet to me at the time. Pay attention.

[Ricastle]

Dear oh dear. I'm the roleblocker. I figured that if Genda were scum, he'd likely be the one to kill with how under-the-radar he's been so far, and I wanted to target someone slightly different after my intuition on Zulfy proved incorrect.

Now, can we get back on track and lynch Karnage? If we're lucky, we could spare ourselves a kill tonight despite this madness.

[Ricastle]

I'm not liking this. Both of you just outted yourselves voluntarily? I'm inclined to think you are both lying scum.

If there wasn't a case beyond the slip before this, there is now. Two PRs claim and this guy is rushing for their lynches? Unbelievable. I certainly did not voluntarily out myself, anyway - Persivul's result forced me to.

[Ricastle]

Enough of this.

VOTE: Marcrell

[Ricastle]

He has barely said anything, nothing he has said has been of value, sometimes being flat-out nonsensical. He has played cautiously and for the most part passively, and completely disappeared once this debacle started up. Scum tends to fade away when town starts clashing, and for good reason - why should they put the spotlight on themselves if, by the way things are going, town is just going to lynch itself?

Just look at his ISO. There is not a single town-motivated post in there. Just the occasional hollow busywork and tiptoeing.

[Ricastle]

Nothing. But considering how active and unrelenting you've been recently, I'd rather go after someone less so for now.

[Ricastle]

For me, it's between Snarky, Arma, and Marcrell today. (Emphasis on the latter who really should have more votes)

[Ricastle]

Why not Mario?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mario

If you think Snarky is scum auto-townreading his buddy, why not just vote Snarky...? Especially since, if we were to go down that route, there are far more potential reasons for scum Snarky to townread a town Mario for no reason than a scum one.

[Ricastle]

Also can we knock the nonsense off and start using reasoning behind votes again?

Sure. Why don't you start with yours?

[Ricastle]

Really? That wasn't even so bad a post.

[Ricastle]

Why is Snarky not an option, Lowell?

Also I'd really like to know what the case on Arma is that couldn't apply to a fuller extent to Snarky and Marcrell.

[Ricastle]

Alright, jmo or Marcrell it is for me then. Let's hurry on now and lynch one of them.

[Ricastle]

VOTE: jmo

Cocky scum right here. Arma wagon must not go through.

[Ricastle]

It came from a revised analysis of his play. What really inspired me to vote him, though, was his latest post.

Nice ATE. Just say you're busy and you'll get to it later. You're trying to make us feel bad for you and I'm not falling for it. Get your reads list finished when you can.

It's horrid. He put Arma to L-1 with no explanation and is now pushing hurriedly to resolve what he considers an easy lynch. He also makes it appear as if he has as much of an idea of the case on Arma as Arma does. As I said, confidence has gotten the better of him now and it is apparent.

This wouldn't be the first time I've caught scum like this, either, so I know what I'm looking for. I might pull some more things from his ISO to bolster my point in a minute.

[Ricastle]

Spoiler:

VOTE: mario

Pers is giving me bad vibes, but is looking town for being active id like to keep him around for a while.

Snarky really hasn't contributed much.

I'm going to say rist is town.

Kop, obv town.

any vote on Kop was not to be taken seriously. Pers and Armageddon vote on him looks bad. I don't like it.

Terrible opening post. Says as good as nothing about the game, and looks more like he's scraping to find things to contribute.

Sorry. My vote on Karnage stands for now.

Nice contribution. Care to scum hunt?

Hypocritical busywork.

jmo is laying down the law.

Dont try to blow smoke. Just trying to get this game going.

Misconstruing a harmless side remark as a jab at him. Indicative of a paranoid mindset.

UNVOTE: snarky
VOTE: ricastle

Is this better? I didn't realize snarky had so many defenders!

this is terrible:(

Passively sheeping the status quo. Never acts upon this.

UNVOTE: snarky
VOTE: ricastle

Is this better? I didn't realize snarky had so many defenders!

This is probably the second worst post of the game.

exactly who are you reading scum right now besides lowell.

Hypocritical - at this point in time he has no stated scumreads.

lol did you see his quick unvote after a null post of snarky? i literally lol'd.

His initial reply to that post was 'noted'. Only when Mario jabs at Karnage does he take the initiative.

UNVOTE: mario

Buddying Mario as a result.

My vote isn't on someone with only my one vote.

His vote wasn't on anyone at this point, despite the fact that he had expressed scorn at both the top wagoned players of this time.

im still looking karnage/arm/zulfy

At least one scum is in that group.

Arm and zulfy slots haven't provided much information. Which, isn't a scum tell, but they aren't exactly scum hunting either.

Yet he isn't voting any of them?

VOTE: jmo16mla

This is where I want my vote for now.

Yeah I kinda want to see some reasoning. You haven't said much this game.

I'm sorry my posts have been lacking. I've been phone posting and it's showing in my play.

He wants reasoning but then immediately assumed right after that it's because his posts are lacking? WMFM + paranoia + a random discredit on the IC.

I'm reading.

Completely useless post - his next one being 70 posts later. This reads to me like scum who is worried that they need to post something, which is consistent with the paranoid mindset displayed earlier.

Coincidence. I haven't had anything really to add, but I'm still here.

And you're back on the scumlist.

Rist is still my top town read. Pers I think is still up there too but he hasn't been posting at this point all too much. We will see.

Buddying while giving no actual opinion on Snarky.

I don't think Karnage is a good lynch.

I feel like you're not providing much.

Either Lowell or Ricastle are my choices.

OK, Ricastle
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ricastle

You're voting my top town read. I don't like that.

A random discredit on Snarky + passive-aggression hidden behind a barrier of obligation.

Kop is replaced by roflcopter effective immediately.

I'm excited to see what he has to say.

That was a weird post.

Paranoia.

375 doesn't really look like a ricastle/karn scumbuddy thing actually. persivul do you have any other reasons to suspect this pairing?

Agree with this. This is all he is pushing and I'm not seeing it.

Doesn't make a move to properly confront Persivul on this matter until he's able to sheep.

Wow, you guys seriously don't have a problem with someone jumping off an L-1 wagon with absolutely no reason given? Interesting.

Timmid town?

Going out of his way here to defend me for no apparent reason.

Anyways, I want to lynch Armageddon because of his random coming in and voting.

Yeah, I can tell how much you want to lynch him by the way you didn't vote for him.

With less than two days to go, coupled with the pace of the game, it's not happening. So why waste that?

Appears complacent with the pace of the game, and unwilling to try and speed it up.

I see that it was incorrect. Incorrect doesn't automatically mean scummy.

I never said marcrell was scummy. I was inferring that you didn't read what he posted, but saw the vote and then voted, yourself. Meaning, you didn't even look at the case, only the vote and that there was someone behind the wagon you "wanted" after voting me earlier for what exactly? Because I stated riscastle was ROLE FISHING?

Are you even reading the game? You're vote hopping has been great by the way as of this page by the way.

Randomly lashing out at people he doesn't even think are scum now. In other words, paranoid scum using intimidation tactics. Persivul's seen this from scum me before.

I'm not liking this. Both of you just outted yourselves voluntarily? I'm inclined to think you are both lying scum.

This. You guys are massive idiots if you're both town and telling the truth.

First time properly addressing this issue is, you guessed it, a sheep. How many times has this been now?

I'm not liking this. Both of you just outted yourselves voluntarily? I'm inclined to think you are both lying scum.

This a lot. I'm not really inclined to believe either claim but I'm going to read up and evaluate.

YOU STILL ARENT REPLYING TO ME ABOUT YOU VOTING ONE OF YOYR SCUM READS.

Hypocritical busywork.

My vote on Karnage still stands. Don't really think he's town, sorta hard to describe I guess.

The claims could be a scum gambit but probably isn't. I'm going to steal the five possibilities;

1) Persivul lied. Ricastle could be telling the truth or lying, but is the same alignment as Grenda. (scum!Persivul risked something that had a small chance of being true with no real lynch case)
2) Persivul told the truth. Ricastle could be telling the truth or lying, but again shares the same alignment as Grenda (Roleblocker is a town-only trait). (so persivul claimed he tracked Ricastle to Gendaberry, then Ricastle claims RB as scum? Plausible)
3) Persivul told the truth, Ricastle told the truth, and Grenda is lying. (not really much movitation for genda to do that as scum but can't be ruled out)
4) All three lied => All three share the same alignment. (possible, best solved by flipping one of them just before lylo)
5) All three told the truth => All three share the same alignment. (probable IMO)

This post is practically useless.

Busywork.

Why is Snarky not an option, Lowell?

Also I'd really like to know what the case on Arma is that couldn't apply to a fuller extent to Snarky and Marcrell.

That's the thing. The case on Arma applies to about the same extent on me, Marcrell, and even Grenda. It's not legit.

Gotta start somewhere, right?

What the hell even is this?

Okay, how about here.

Town by claim: {Persivul, Ricastle, Grenda}
Town by (my) read: {Mario, Jmo}
Null by lack of post: {Marcrell, Lowell, Armageddon}
Null by lack of (my) read: {Karnage,

Snarky

}

Wait, you have a null read on yourself??

LOLLL WHAT DID WE FIND HERE?!

Uselessly, worthlessly sheeping a non-point. It was around here that his arrogance started seeping through.

I got lazy near the end, but that should still make it more than clear why this guy is the best lynch today.

[Ricastle]

Bip.

VOTE: Marcrell

[Ricastle]

Well...that was a game. GG all. Thanks shaddowez for modding, you did a good job overall, although I will say that I was never added to the dead PT.