Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[Jim]

[Jim]

[Jim]

Let me make a correction...

VOTE: Jim

There, fixed.

[Jim]

Spoiler:

[Jim]

Something of substance tomorrow after my errands.

[Jim]

VOTE: KT

thanks for the naked vote sir, they make me feel special. Now if I can get 7 of those I will die and I don't like to die so if I get close to 7 votes you can unvote so I don't die, but if you would like me to die there is nothing stopping me from having you remove that naked vote.

Have a nice day.

I had no real issues with every post up until this one. It gives off the distinct tones of scum trying to present a laid-back comedic town attitude, but the delivery just falls flat. It could be a matter of the person, but this post makes no legitimate sense as to why it was posted or what it sought to achieve other than the above.

snip

My frame of mind regarding this is eerily similar. People naturally wouldn't care as much about the other votes as you said here, and as I said above I had an issue with the tone that pervades his posting as compared to which votes he decides to reply to or not. There's one thing I did notice but I am waiting to see if it persists or not.

VOTE: OllieVOTE:

I forgot about this game

So you forgot about this game. And yet showed up 10 minutes after I mentioned it?

VOTE: Nosferatu

I'm not particularly sure this tell is something we should be chasing rather than trying to sort out what has already been occurring. Why did you choose to ignore taking a side on the KT and Lowell debacle?

Magna is going to be annoying as hell, but, unfortunately, is town.

There's definitely some context missing here. What is town about chasing lurkers and avoiding the big topics that had been going on thus far? It gives more of an air of scum trying to keep their nose clean and out of a fray.

F#ckin vampires, always out to taste my sweet townie blood.

Nosferatu what's your take on what's happened so far?

Speaking of keeping your nose clean, Ollie only really commented on KT when prompted from Bella. I would say we'll probably find one, maybe two scum between those trying to keep themselves in a swiss state.

I dont like him calling out kt, although i agree it was a weird reaction by him... It wasnt indicative of scum.

I dont like him calling out albert as a friend to "get in here"

I dont like him calling you town so early in the game.

I like these points from jmo. I disagree slightly on the last, but that is more a matter of theory than a game opinion difference. As such, I'm leaning more green on him.

VOTE: Jmo

Something that has stuck out is that the people who had not posted were called out by Magna, but we had posts such as KTS where there seems to be nothing truly happening that gets ignored. This might be insignificant, but I want to revisit this should Magna flip scum.

No

Just vote me for fucks sakes

This bothers me too. It is a cry for attention, yes, and whilst scum normally don't want attention this seems much more likely to be a ploy to get a baseless wagon on him to then get derailed for being baseless in the first place. His lack of immersion in the game whilst asking for a wagon is troublesome.

snip

The thing I was looking for earlier was continued responses to everyone who voted him. However, this post seems more like he saw Imperium mention newer scum played to be less verbose, and tried to sell that as the story. That being said, should he flip scum, Imperium would likely be town, as it looks like KT is catering his post to them.

KT is town.

I rest my case.

UNVOTE: KTthecreeper

I'll judge you on your scum hunting, let's see what you've got.

If I claimed a role that wasn't in this game, and then turned around and said I have issues reading and I am actually a VT, would you give me the same treatment?

See this is where you lose me. Because the most damning of the exchange at 22-25 between Bella and Ollie is not that it took him an hour after posting 24 to vote in 25. It’s that he only voted for Creeper at all because Bella repeatedly badgered him about his read. And Nosferatu doesn’t address that element in his 73 at all.

Why is the time delay more damning then what I pointed out?

This is a very good point. The time between posts means nothing ultimately, but the amount it took to get something out of him felt like he was just saying what he thought bella would want to hear.

But I call him out on lack of content and almost immediately – BAM – post both trying to undercut suspicion and get some content into thread.

Is this a common scum tactic you've seen? Turning around immediately after they are called out for doing or not doing something to then right the wrong and abate some of the suspicion? Forgive me, but I fail to see what scum would ever do something like that.

Thankfully I don't think I have to be too worried since I've literally never been lynched D1.

This overreaction is off. I didn't see a votecount recently, but my understanding was that you had one, maybe two votes now. What made you feel the need to post this? Is that supposed to be some sort of intimidation technique? Jumping to lynching so prematurely is very off.

While I don't think KT's scum game is weak per se, I do think that it is very one-dimensional. I think that KT is a very reactive player in general, hence a play like this as town makes sense; he's been getting wagoned and mislynched as town a bunch, he's frustrated, he's trying to approach being pressured differently. Whereas as scum, it requires him to take initiative by purposefully overreacting to a meaningless push on him and backing up that overreaction with past experience which is something that I think is pretty uncharacteristic of his scum play. The emotion displayed (feeling uneasy and frustrated early) also lines up pretty solidly with his commentary in the History Mafia PT where he comments that he is less comfortable playing as town than as scum.

Your position does make a fair amount of sense, but my concern is that while the orignal post was a reaction, he still was clearly reading enough to comment on other posts in his longwinded post, and it read to me more as catering to you than anything else.

The reasoning that he offered (that he decided that adding pressure was better than not) makes sense; the possible scum motivation that I had in mind when pursuing was that he possible looked at the exchange between him and Bella and thought it looked a bit weak and added the vote to make his play line up with his words.

This is a train of thought that lines up pretty similarly with mine. I'm not finding myself on the same page as them regarding KT but I do like their use of a wide variety of sources to try and narrow down his motivation and attitude, as well as pointing out something I was considering myself upon reading.

In terms of votes on KT, iirc he was a day 1 mislynch the game I played with him, although I'm glad to say he's settled in a bit.

He hasn't looked particularly settled to me- where are you getting this from?

[Jim]

Oops. I'm still reading, the rest will follow up soon.

[Jim]

You guys, I'm known for being useless Day1, NAI. I'm more of a Day3 player.

These posts always push my buttons. Whilst I empathize with being stronger as the game goes on, that is no excuse for uselessness, nor should it be used to try and weasel out of an early lynch.

Scum: Imperium, killthestory, +1 more

Albert

Why Imperium?

Because both of our heads posted here and Kain didn't.

There was another slot that had not posted at all either, what made you choose to vote mine?

Jim/(KainTepes) - Lurker/replace-out, no-content trollposter, Very interesting how much resistance there is to his wagon. Scum.

There are a few issues with this. The first issue is the hypocrisy behind the push. If you notice, one of the primary reasons people are wagoning you is your lack of engagement. Your reaction being to vote someone who has not even showed up. The second, is that when you voted this slot you ignored the other slot that had yet to post altogether. The third, is that there has been no push whatsoever on me, yet you are stating there was some resistance to it? How can there be resistance to a non-existent push?

I find myself divided among two different viewpoints regarding you. There are the ones I just stated, but there is also one that wonders why you were so easily baited by the images I kept posting. Scum would have noticed they had no traction there and found something else to push, or would even have pushed one of the people they said they were scumreading. But this reckless stupidity gives off a distinctly self-righteous town vibe.

We're actually scum. You've been right this entire time. We did what we could for the slot and you still caught us like a boss. You guys are really good players. I will be nomming for best town.

Klingon and I are very impressed by how effective this town's collective scumhunting ability is.

Well done.

I look forward to playing with you all again, hopefully on the same side.

Albert

This is making me think more of them on the scum front than town. At the very least, for someone who was confident town could win without them, would you not want to present some reasonings for the people you are asserting as scum who, it seems, are somewhat universal townreads?

Hello sorry I haven't been on in the past few days, some things popped up

So I'm going to read the thread a few times and make a read list on my thought so far

I expect some actual follow through this time.

I am currently viewing Imperium and jmo as relatively firm townreads. Oceanwind and Magna are leaning to that direction as well.

I feel like one of Ollie and Lowell are scum, but not both of them. I'm leaning more to the former. If Ollie is scum, I'm extremely confident in Bella being town.

KTS is someone I cannot wrap my head around, nor can I wrap my head around all these townreads on him.

I'm willing to give KT some space, but I would like to hear Imperium's stance regarding the thoughts I brought up. If I am right, and KT is scum, I'm confident in Imperium being town.

Acroyn and Church are leaning heavily in the red.

I have no thoughts on Severa.

[Jim]

Why exactly do you think he would need to fake a Town attitude off a single RVS vote?

Newer scum players sometimes have issues immersing themselves in a game. Given that RVS is predominately injokes and sarcasm, that's often viewed as the best way to get into a game. The vote's not the cause for it, the immersion is.

Why exactly do you think he would need to fake a Town attitude off a single RVS vote?

There's never a flat out need to, but it would be a good way for someone to ease their way into the game. There's a reason RVS is predominately injokes and sarcasm.

You are forgiven. But in all seriousness – for a large swath of scum appeasement style posts I find to generally be a good tell to go with. You in this post also mention several instances of appeasement posting (ex: Ollie’s vote on Creeper after Bella interaction). I find these type of “get mentioned and come running” posts to be a variant on appeasement posting.

Now there are several strata of player-types that doesn’t work for. Mainly the super-boastful and the well seasoned vets. Luckily we don’t have the worst style of offender in this game for the former and I purposefully didn’t bother even trying that sort of poking and prodding on the later in this game.

I did notice a bit of my own hypocrisy after the fact. I just had some issues relating it to calling out lurkers, as I know that of the three you called out, I can vouch for one being town. That type of tell just never really jumped out at me as effective, as I know that I am victim of reading along with nothing to say, and when I see myself called out I post as a "hey I'm here" or even have that awkward timing. There's too many factors at play to make a good call, however if it becomes a pattern I would definitely put some more weight into that stance.

Does that make sense?

Yes, thank you.

[Jim]

Your reaction being to vote someone who has not even showed up. The second, is that when you voted this slot you ignored the other slot that had yet to post altogether. The third, is that there has been no push whatsoever on me, yet you are stating there was some resistance to it? How can there be resistance to a non-existent push?

It's pretty clear you have no experience playing with your predecessor KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I, on the other hand, have been in some games with him.

Kling

Didn't seem like you had that much of an issue with him until I brought it up. Also, way to avoid answering literally every question in the quote.

[Jim]

That ruins the point of an alt, so no. I have played for a while.

[Jim]

I would like to end the day shortly after KT gives us his reads list.

[Jim]

KTthecreeper (1): ChurchofMercy

[Jim]

KTthecreeper (1): ChurchofMercy

I changed my mind on that one too. Problem?

What changed your mind regarding him?

[Jim]

@Jim -

in your catchup, is there a reason you glazed over the argument between me, Nosferatu, and Ollie?

I had trouble parsing that argument for the most part. That was a reflection of my mental state.

I am currently viewing Imperium and jmo as relatively firm townreads. Oceanwind and Magna are leaning to that direction as well.

1. You place a lot of emphasis on MagnaOfIllusion's opening. You criticize him for going after Nosferatu. You call him out for not taking a side in the "KTthecreeper/Lowell" debacle. to the point where you are even making notes on who to look at if he flipped mafia. You also criticize three of his posts. How did you come to the conclusion that he was leaning town? For reference, here's everything you said about MagnaOfIllusion:

Spoiler: Jim's thoughts on MagnaOfIllusion

1.)

VOTE: OllieVOTE:

I forgot about this game

So you forgot about this game. And yet showed up 10 minutes after I mentioned it?

VOTE: Nosferatu

I'm not particularly sure this tell is something we should be chasing rather than trying to sort out what has already been occurring. Why did you choose to ignore taking a side on the KT and Lowell debacle?

2.)

Magna is going to be annoying as hell, but, unfortunately, is town.

There's definitely some context missing here. What is town about chasing lurkers and avoiding the big topics that had been going on thus far? It gives more of an air of scum trying to keep their nose clean and out of a fray.

3.)

VOTE: Jmo

Something that has stuck out is that the people who had not posted were called out by Magna, but we had posts such as KTS where there seems to be nothing truly happening that gets ignored. This might be insignificant, but I want to revisit this should Magna flip scum.

4.)

See this is where you lose me. Because the most damning of the exchange at 22-25 between Bella and Ollie is not that it took him an hour after posting 24 to vote in 25. It’s that he only voted for Creeper at all because Bella repeatedly badgered him about his read. And Nosferatu doesn’t address that element in his 73 at all.

Why is the time delay more damning then what I pointed out?

This is a very good point. The time between posts means nothing ultimately, but the amount it took to get something out of him felt like he was just saying what he thought bella would want to hear.

5.)

But I call him out on lack of content and almost immediately – BAM – post both trying to undercut suspicion and get some content into thread.

Is this a common scum tactic you've seen? Turning around immediately after they are called out for doing or not doing something to then right the wrong and abate some of the suspicion? Forgive me, but I fail to see what scum would ever do something like that.

So, in your mind, he made one good point and several questionable ones. How did you wind up with a townread here?

I attributed my discrepancies with him to Lowell by mistake.

2. Is your read on Imperium dependent mostly on KTthecreeper trying to appease them? What would your read be if KTthecreeper is town?

Somewhat. I haven't found myself hating anything they've said.

3. You respond to jmo16mla's Post 62 by saying that you are leaning more green on him. But in your next post, he becomes a firm townread, how? He only made two posts in between (179, 206). Are you happy enough with jmo16mla's content so far that he's one of your top two townreads in the game?

I meant town when I used the term green.

4. Is Acryon heavily in the read purely for saying that he has never been lynched D1 in what you perceive to be an "intimidation tactic?"

He was more leftover and thrown in where I felt he fit.

5. Why is only one of Ollie and Lowell mafia? Why are you leaning towards it being Ollie? Why does an Ollie scumflip clear Bellaphant?

Upon reading back, I realize I was mixing up people. That being said, I need to rearrange some of my list. It's Ollie and Magna, and the reason is because they were using the same strategy to approach the game, where it makes sense for one to be scum but not both. Ollie just stuck out more in my head, and the reason it clears bellaphant is that preliminary interaction between the two of them, Bellaphant's pestering about KT I believe it was? That looked a lot like Ollie catering his posts to what Bellaphant was asking.

[Jim]

I will be back tomorrow, spending majority of my time today catching up on my Uni work.