Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[acryon]

Spoiler:

No. It's still absurd. I have literally never one time seen someone comment on someone's content/activity when they had literally been a part of the game for less than 24 hours, and there's a good reason for that.

The thread was open for a little more than forty-eight hours and there was quite a bit of content by then. Why shouldn't you be expected to post relevant content?

Which is why it's important to look at everything in context. I suppose maybe I shouldn't have expected people to know that real content from me was coming, but it seemed silly to jump on me when it had been such a short period of time from my first to last post at that point.

Spoiler:

1. In the 1v1 between Ollie and Nosferatu it was very clear who was on the backfoot.

2. Exactly. Part of being town is being pro-active so as to avoid getting suspicion and getting lynched, same as scum. Town may have other reasons for doing it as well, but they're both trying not to get lynched, so I don't think you can say one is more pro-active than the other. If it were, the game of mafia would be a lot easier.

3. No, because if I were to engage Nosferatu, it would be separately. You jumped on in the midst of a 1v1. What's your goal there?

1. I don't see how you are interpreting Ollie to be on the backfoot here. They were both arguing and providing their own reasons for why the other was mafia. Imperium had posted a few posts ago whole-heartedly agreeing with Nosferatu and voting Ollie and was the only person to comment. Ollie was the one in the spotlight with Nosferatu leading the attack on him.

2. That's sort of the point of playing the game though. Mafia do try to act like town but may not always succeed. Finding the cracks is how you develop reads.

3. 1v1s are not some separate entity shielded from the rest of the game where no one may comment until it ends. In fact, those types of 1v1s that nobody else is engaged in are often highly unproductive. The best way to progress the game is for other people to pitch in and take stances.

1. 99 felt like a sign of Nos on the backfoot.

2. Agreed.

3. I certainly don't think this is always the case, but I do think there are times to let them ride, and it just felt like piling on to me. Again, this was in my initial read-through and honestly it didn't feel nearly as much like that as I read through it again.

Spoiler:

To elaborate, I think if your goal was to gain a better understanding from Nos, doing it while they were clearly already in defense mode isn't really the right time, because it just felt like you beating a horse in the process of dying. See 99. I may be making a bigger deal out of this than I should and may not have quite the evidence to back it up, but it was my first inclination when I read through.

It was relevant at the time. I'm not going to act like they were engaged in an exclusive duel and wait my turn until they are finished. I

can

see the potential scum motivation in picking a side when two townies argue so I understand your argument. But I also don't think as town, you need to "wait it out" before pitching in. In fact, when people are under pressure from multiple angles, their reactions may be more informative than if everyone ignored the argument and let those two battle it out.

Could be, but it's also an easy way for scum to avoid forming their own questions/reads if they just choose one of the players in a 1v1 and jump on in the middle.

[acryon]

VOTE: Nosferatu

What are you doing?

[Nosferatu]

I'm asking what you mean by "on the backfoot"?

[acryon]

I'm asking what you mean by "on the backfoot"?

I don't usually do this, but http://lmgtfy.com/?q=on+the+back+foot.

Now that we have that out of the way, what are you doing?

[Nosferatu]

so I don't get your read on me here? I'm out maneuvered so I'm scum?

I don't see a progression here leading up to your vote. It's out of place and worries me.

[acryon]

so I don't get your read on me here? I'm out maneuvered so I'm scum?

I don't see a progression here leading up to your vote. It's out of place and worries me.

That part is completely separate from me thinking you are scum. My vote is currently on you because you're not really doing anything. Your past handful of posts have been questions with zero follow-up. Looks like faux-scumhunting.

[Nosferatu]

I can't fix what you're reading. This is my natural play. I make observations that often don't follow up and eventually I make a case on a player. Sometimes the case proves correct in their response, and other times it doesn't and the cycle repeats.

What could I tell you now? A ton of things. I think Imperium didn't fully believe in my ollie case but voted anyway. I don't believe that you honestly think your vote should be on me. Why? Because you have no case right now. Right now you have a generic statement. The majority of posters here aren't doing anything. So why are you focusing on me out of everyone who isn't ocean and magna is a thought I'm mulling over right about now.

I don't even believe that you're properly reading this slot. You said "early on Ollie began his 1v1 with Nosferatu" but in reality I started it when I called his vote on KT scummy. There was no clear winner in the argument, and the only way Ollie was winning was in post count. 99 was apparently a sign I was on the defense, but it's really not. I said "there's no winning this argument" before he even got a chance to respond to the response I gave to him the post earlier, and at that point there was no outstanding argument he had made that I hadn't adequately answered, and I haven't shifted opinions when brought under fire from them, I maintained the same arguments throughout, and so did Ollie. There was no winner in the bout.

Now in your previous posts, you've been accusing Ocean of jumping in on me and Ollie's 1v1. You're not wrong here, but your presenting this as something scummy, but a scum read on me for "faux-scumhunting" and a scum read on Ocean for opportunistic intervention doesn't make sense, since Ocean was pushing me along with Ollie, so are you suggesting a bussing interaction here? But you're attacking me first but not Ocean. So obviously not. If you thought I was scum with Ocean in this case, I'd think you'd go for Ocean first here, since he was who you were talking to first. But you diverged from your 1v1 with him to start this interaction here.

I guess the real question is here, what are you doing? I think you're just looking for a reason to build a case because you don't have one. If you're not, why you're diverging from your conversation with ocean to vote me with no real backing is an enigma to me.

TL;DR I'm still reading

[acryon]

Now in your previous posts, you've been accusing Ocean of jumping in on me and Ollie's 1v1. You're not wrong here, but your presenting this as something scummy, but a scum read on me for "faux-scumhunting" and a scum read on Ocean for opportunistic intervention doesn't make sense, since Ocean was pushing me along with Ollie, so are you suggesting a bussing interaction here?

I thought it was clear from my back and forth with Ocean that I now feel less confident in that scumread, so you can consider it independent of my scumread on you.

[kelbris]

vote count 1.03

Bellaphant (0): none
SeshatX (0): none
KainTepes (1): ChurchofMercy
jmo16mla (2): Ollie, killthestory
MagnaofIllusion (0): none
Imperium (0): none
Killthestory (0): none
ChurchOfMercy (hydra, Klingoncelt and Albert B Rampage) (5) [L-3]: Oceanwind, Lowell, Imperium, Bellaphant, MagnaofIllusion
Lowell (1): jmo16mla
Nosferatu (1): acryon
acryon (0): none
OceanWind (1): KTthecreeper
KTthecreeper (0): none
Ollie (1): Nosferatu
With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
day 1 has begun, it will end in (expired on 2016-04-16 19:01:46)

[Nosferatu]

Now in your previous posts, you've been accusing Ocean of jumping in on me and Ollie's 1v1. You're not wrong here, but your presenting this as something scummy, but a scum read on me for "faux-scumhunting" and a scum read on Ocean for opportunistic intervention doesn't make sense, since Ocean was pushing me along with Ollie, so are you suggesting a bussing interaction here?

I thought it was clear from my back and forth with Ocean that I now feel less confident in that scumread, so you can consider it independent of my scumread on you.

great, but I still fail to see how I'm being scum read by you. Unless you've got a case hidden somewhere I can see that has some concrete reasons laid out that I can respond to other than "recent posts haven't been questions with follow up".

[Killthestory]

alrighty so like arrogance is null indicative for me so dont townread me for that but sheep me for just how great i am and how town i am.

also forgot to do this VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: Church

[kelbris]

ok, since it has been (just about) 24 hours since the prods were issued, I am replacing KainTepes and SeshatX.

[Killthestory]

HOLY SHIT I JUST REALIZED HOW BAD I MESSED UP THAT VOTE TAG LOOOOOL.

also thx kelbris dude

[Nosferatu]

kill pls, you're only voting them because they haven't announced their scum reads

[Killthestory]

yes

[Nosferatu]

scummy why?

[Bellaphant]

@ocean, I asked for Ollie's scum games (not town!) to see if he was the kind of cheeky player who'd make a joke like that. The answer is 'yes', but they've been a tonne more aggressive in their other games, going after the guy who tunnelled him, being a lot more in your face than he has been here.

I've been asked for reads:

Kill the story: A ridiculously gut town-read, mainly for the readlists post. I like the pressure on com as well.
Nos: Early push on Ollie was good, calm under pressure from Ocean, seems to have an eye out for detail (178 192 227). Is having similar issues with acron as I am. Town
Acron: scum. From the early PL weirdness, overreaction and repetition in 164, inconsistent responses to magna (not enough progression), I hate 254, engages ocean and nos (my strong town-reads) in a circular argument, seems to have opposite reads to me.
Ocean. Super town. Confident early game, some good posting 39. Actively scum-hunting. Easy town.
Lowell: conflicted, scum-lean. Some of his posts (first mention of COm scum, little push on magna) are good, but he's magicked up some scum-reads, still thinks kt is scum for 'reasons', doesn't push these reads.
Ollie: alarm bells early game, has massively improved his content now, a few slight twinges but I'm happier now I've read the scum-games. town-lean
Magna: Opening push on nos is super dumb, but dumb/= scum. I was iffy on this slot, but it improves in iso. Is looking for game progress, even though I'm finding it harder to agree with/follow all their points. null-town
Com: scum. lack of engagement, lack of consistancy, not using their vote, and I'm pretty familiar with klingon's scum game.
Imperium: null-town. Asking the right questions, I should talk more to them.
jmola - super awks in places, but I like his town-read as scum point 206. vote is not terrible. null.
kt: ugh, he was town he last had an early day 1 like this. I could also do with a look at his scum meta.

Plus we have two inactive slots.

@Imperium, where's your head at with kill the story? what are your thoughts on nos?

[post=v/la 'til Monday, it's my birthday]v/la 'til Monday, it's my birthday[/post]

[ChurchOfMercy]

Why is potentially being more interested in other ongoing games not as good of an excuse as being more interested in dating sites?

There's no site.

[ChurchOfMercy]

Scum: Imperium, killthestory, +1 more

Albert

[Killthestory]

oh man great scum list b r o

i rest my case here that i am the greatest scumhunter of all time

[kelbris]

KainTepes has been replaced by Jim and SeshatX has been replaced by Severa, welcome them to the game.

[Severa]

I'm just getting started!

[Jim]

[ChurchOfMercy]

dude im literally too good.

church youre getting lynched today you scumlords

And when we flip you'll be all like "ooops, my bad, but they looked so scummy!!!!!" trying to look all Towny-like.

You need to work on your Scum gameplay.

[ChurchOfMercy]

Lack of engagement isn't scummy.

Hold on a second...

Kain, on the other hand, has been pretty active elsewhere on the site today.

VOTE: KainTepesVOTE:

Why is potentially being more interested in other ongoing games not as good of an excuse as being more interested in dating sites?

Because both of our heads posted here and Kain didn't.

Both our heads posted in other games as well.

I even posted on 2 other sites.

Apples and oranges.

Klingoncelt