Open 645: C9++ - Game Over

[texcat]

I'm finally here, but haven't fully caught up yet. Y'all are posting so much I'm not sure I'll ever get caught up. Anything on particular I should pay attention to while I read?

[texcat]

I'm finally here, but haven't fully caught up yet. Y'all are posting so much I'm not sure I'll ever get caught up. Anything on particular I should pay attention to while I read?

Why even play?

Thanks for your help.

[texcat]

VOTE: Zachstralkita

I don't understand this. Is this just supposed to be cute or funny?

[texcat]

Too much RL stuff going on. I'm having a hard time keeping up with the quantity of posts and haven't really found a point of entry into this game.

Mod- please replace me out.

*Fist bumps transcend*

We totally did this.

And what does this mean? Smithereens and Transcend were trying to get Loop to replace out? Why?

[texcat]

What was serious about it Dunnstral?

[texcat]

Maybe I should try to find a sense of humor. Cause I don't get either one of those posts. If I were going to vote Zach, I'd have at lease given a reason, like his thumb is too close to the CAPLOCK key.

[texcat]

I'm only on page 12 -- about halfway. So far I'm not liking Transcend or Smithereens too much, but that might just be a bad reaction to the fist bumps post.

[texcat]

Thanks for the link. I'll look at it in a bit.

Pedit2: And slip ups like that can be a scumtell for Ranger, if indeed it is a slip. She makes a point of doing the read list thing as either alignment. Caution though, I hard scumread her for unnaturally strong town reads in a previous game and she turned up town... gonna want a reason for them being in the same tier, and a good one.

Interesting... and I stopped my readthrough to ISO Ranger to see the answer.

Thought I posted this when just posting my earlier wall.
Guess I didn't.
{Dunnstral, Zachstral, Smithereens, Transcend}
{Riddleton, davesaz, Bins}
{Kappy}
{Umlaut}
{a plain farmer}
{Loopdan}
{LicketyQuickety}

gonna want a reason for them being in the same tier, and a good one.

Okay, so.
I don't think it's one day's worth of a changed diet suddenly making me high.
I honestly, seriously just feel like I hit a zone. A zone where all of my reads are really, really good right now.

All of them feel so...

right

.
I really like your posting.
Bins I like too.
Smithereens did something I don't think scum would do.
Transcend has been posting in a way I just don't see from scum.
Dunnstral is the same but more.
Kappy feels like town but not by much.
Umlaut actually looks like scum, but not groupscum.
a plain farmer really looks like scum.
Loopdan's even more of a scumread.
And LicketyQuickety is hard-scum.

It just all feels so RIGHT.

And I see that it just

feels

RIGHT. (Everyone seems to like that CAPLOCK key). Ranger is way better at scum hunting than I'll ever hope to be, but I disagree with almost all of her reads here. I've been leaning town on LQ and I know she's wrong about Loop.

[texcat]

Well, crap! Somehow I screwed that first quote from Davesaz up. That was not a Transcend quote it was from Davesaz 297.

[texcat]

Hence why I only listed four people. Though you still don't seem to care about them

Well I am Town reading a plain farmer and am Null on the others which is why I am not focusing on them right now.

Hmmmm...

[texcat]

Nothing but a hmmmm. I'm pretty null on PlainFarmer, just wondering why LQ has a town read there.

(There's a reason 372 is a scumclaim. Free town points to the player who can figure out why!)

If you have something that nails scum on Day 1, why hold it in?

Imo I'd like to hear everything about scum LQ since curiously everyone dismissed an objectively correct demonstration of contradiction of thought processes in another player that he raised earlier.

The second half of 319 puts it pretty simply. I actually mentioned this before I left too, the fact that Bins was clearly lying about what he was doing in this game. LQ points out two posts where Bins is clearly stating his behaviour is normal. In the third he backflips and says that he has been deliberately acting weird this entire game and that only one player noticed it.

Bins in 149:

yeah if it's not

obvious i'm trying to follow my usual game plan

here but some people are making it super hard

Later...

In this game? I think I've made it pretty

obvious I've been trying to get at least some reaction by acting weird

. But Dunn was the only person to pick up on it.

In other games? No, cause I just started this new thing. It's been quite a while since I last played and I'm trying to redefine my playstyle.

Is this not suspect? why is everyone dismissing it??

Wow, this is an interesting post. Pointing out the truth in LQ's case on Bins, where everyone else was saying it was crap. I'm thinking Bins and LQ are town v town, but if any of them flip scum, remind me to come back to this.

[texcat]

@Dave, I remember your defense of Transcend felt a tad strong, as if you knew he was town despite him just entering the game. Would you explain why you didn't/don't want players voting for Trans?

I don't remember this, but I like this question.

[texcat]

I don't like Smithereens's tone at the start of 396, actually.

Yeah, if you're talking about the Ranger remarks, I get it.

I've finished my

read

skim through. We still have 10 days left. I think there's some good stuff in D1, and after we get some flips, I can see it being very useful.

VOTE: Transcend

I think the strals are sock puppets and will play against their win con.

VOTE: Dunn

I haven't read this game and will when i get home.

UNVOTE:

Hi

I see you all don't like my intro. Sorry bout that. The whole Ranger thing, I have 3 completed games with her (once she was on a hydra). We've been opposite alignment each time and I think she's a good player, so I want her on my team.

Posting thoughts in a bit.

VOTE: smithereens

i'll longpost later lol

i'll give a full reads list tomorrow. don't have enough energy to longpost. but i'm glad i got to call you out and i'm glad you responded. those posts just looked really weird, to me.

UNVOTE:

Major scum tell in my book, promising read lists without ever delivering. He's voted mostly on low posters and whatever wagon was conveninent.

[texcat]

Textcat, I'll assume the joke went over your head. Trans and I weren't trying to remove players from the game lol...

Yeah, the joke definitely went over my head. It just seemed mean. Maybe I'm just overly-sensitive for the player I replaced.

[texcat]

Make sure that if you lynch me to lynch Ranger and never lynch LickityQuickity, no matter what.

mmm, does this read like town newb to anyone else?

Yep.



I really wish everyone would take a quick skim through Transcend's ISO. It won't take long. And then tell me how that could be town.

[texcat]

Do the ISO of Transcend, in any case, when your headache is better.

[texcat]

Tex, I skimmed Transcend's ISO and I'm not sure I see what you see. It just seems like post after post of meh. I don't like that he's sort of gliding along and giving mostly null reads without actually pushing any cases, but is this all you're talking about or is there something more?

That's it. Plus as I talked about before(629), he kept promising read lists, but never delivered. That's a big red flag for me. But he did have time to make post after post of meh.

[texcat]

Go where?

FWIW I have mixed feelings. The wagon I want to join (Transcend) is on a player replacing out. I'd kinda like to see replacements and go from there. OTOH it's beneficial for town to have progress.

Too many people have scumreads which depend on associations, for this early in the game. While certain associative tells like chainsaw defense and coaching are occasionally useful, they're nowhere near reliable enough to have that be the only basis of a scumread.

I understand not wanting to vote for a replacing slot. I'm happy leaving my vote on Transcend for the moment, but will re-evaluate the replacement. We still have almost a week. I understand that bad decisions are often made if we wait until the last moment to coalesce, but I think likewise bad decisions might be made if we try to rush things with a week to go.

[texcat]

i suppose theres an argument for maybe 3 doctors? eh

I was pleasantly surprised at only one kill. It could be good work by the doctor(s) or it could be a lack of Vig and SK.

[texcat]

Ranger, I thought your Umlaut scum read was mostly based on Ira being scum. Do you still think Umlaut is scum?

[texcat]

VOTE: Titus
I was hoping that if you were town, you'd rectify my scum read on Transcend. I don't see that happening.

[texcat]

Not OMGUS. My vote was on you yesterday. I think I spelled out my reasons for Transcend being scummy. You haven't done anything to make me change my mind.

Ranger's read list is upside down from mine. I know she's wrong about me and Ira. I suspect she's wrong on Umlaut and LQ. I'm just not sure that Ranger being wrong means that Ranger is scummy. But I'm leaning that way.

[texcat]

Re Ranger, town don't become scum because they get things wrong. It's quite normal to be wrong in mafia, that's how the game is played. You look like you're getting fustrated with Ranger when Ranger was simply one name on a wagon of people who were incorrect, and not even the more suspicious of names.

The problem lies in the reasons someone is wrong. Ranger has mostly just given us ordered lists with no reasons. So it's impossible to judge where or why she went wrong.

[texcat]

Just in case my point wasn't clear, you're voting Titus for failing to explain the mental processes of Trans.

That's rather unfair imo.

Perhaps, but I note that it's one more reason than Titus has given for voting me.

[texcat]

You're admitting that your vote is largely retributive?

NO I don't think that's what I said at all.

[texcat]

Yeeeeehaw! Let's lock and load. Point me towards the scum, ready to vote.

VOTE: Iraonvp

Notes: Bins is scum, looking to jump on a wagon and reverse a prior held townread under short constraints.

So, either iraonvp is scum or farmer is. Famer looks town.

Iron is scum.

Titus, can you tell us how much of the thread you had read when you voted Ira? You'd only subbed in a couple of hours earlier. From my admittedly conf-biased pov, this looks like scum just jumping on whatever wagon is going and not likely to get a fellow scum lynched. Also that's a lot of connections you made (or tried to make) before any flips and from just a few posts.

[texcat]

If RC is SK or GF, I put a target on their back as they are not BP.

I thought cops got town/not town. So if we're to believe Titus then Ranger could not be SK. And the SK could certainly be bullet proof.

With this many mistakes, I'm inclined not to believe Titus. Wouldn't a cop go back and look to see what her results meant? Or ask the mod?

[texcat]

SK picks Inv. Immunity or BP pregame, they can't pick both.

the SK possibility is if investigation immunity was picked thus making said SK appear town

I'm an idiot. I forgot about the ii. So not a mistake by Titus at all.

[texcat]

Agreed. Their read on me was lean town. Then, she is all suspicious After I announce my findings

??? My vote is still on you. I've never had a town lean on you.

[texcat]

I forgot that the SK could be ii.

[texcat]

No, I'm willing to give her the benefit of doubt for more, just haven't unvoted yet. I will when I get back to a real keyboard.

I was scum reading Titus and thought she had made a mistake saying that Ranger could still be SK, but realized it was me who made the mistake by forgetting the SK could be ii.

[texcat]

It's hard to defend the votes on me when the only reason is that my iso looks sparse. I didn't replace in until page 40 or so. Too hard to check from here, but I think it was about then.

[texcat]

Fine?? Is that a case?

[texcat]

I just had a brief skim of LQ's ISO. This was before his scumslip:

By the way the more you talk about the IC the more I believe you're mafia

How is talking about the IC AI? Do you think I have been bringing it up a lot or something? I'm pretty sure that is not the primary thing I have been talking about. Explain.

BTW, you have fair points on that you are sheeping Ranger. Ranger doesn't know my alignment, but the point is seen nonetheless.

Something seems off to me when he says that Ranger doesn't know his alignment. If LQ were town, wouldn't he assume that there are quite a few people (mafia) who do know his alignment.

VOTE: LQ

[texcat]

(I guess if it came down to those two I'd rather lynch texcat than LQ since she's contributing less. I was townreading her pretty strongly yesterday for bringing up Transcend's behavior, but she hasn't really done anything since then.)

Why do people keep saying this? Do I have to spam the thread for yall to think I'm doing something?

[texcat]

And finding another scum slip from LQ before his known scum slip? Does that not count as scum hunting?

[texcat]

And finding another scum slip from LQ before his known scum slip? Does that not count as scum hunting?

Could you pretty please point out both of these scumslips?

I just had a brief skim of LQ's ISO. This was before his scumslip:

By the way the more you talk about the IC the more I believe you're mafia

How is talking about the IC AI? Do you think I have been bringing it up a lot or something? I'm pretty sure that is not the primary thing I have been talking about. Explain.

BTW, you have fair points on that you are sheeping Ranger. Ranger doesn't know my alignment, but the point is seen nonetheless.

Something seems off to me when he says that Ranger doesn't know his alignment. If LQ were town, wouldn't he assume that there are quite a few people (mafia) who do know his alignment.

VOTE: LQ

[texcat]

And finding another scum slip from LQ before his known scum slip? Does that not count as scum hunting?

Could you pretty please point out both of these scumslips?

And if you're going to insist Lickety then I'm going to insist you give something more than 'gut feeling.'

Okay. I have an N0 guilty on LicketyQuickety. There ya go. More than gut.

OK I feel stupid for having to state this (and more stupid for you saying it), but there is no N0 in C9++. And I just can't take this seriously because most the time N0 give a VT result and Cop wouldn't out themselves Day 1 and there is not even a guaranteed Cop in the game. The only scenario I can see a reason for a cop to come out day 1 is because they were a 1-shot. But again, I have never seen a game where a 1-shot Cop gets an investigative result N0. I can honestly say this is one of the more bizarre claims I have seen (barring some of the ones I have made tho).

IF YOU ARE COP, DO NOT COUNTER CLAIM THIS!!!

Lickety, man, I was townreading you . Why, if you're town, did the most obvious rebuttal not involve anything to the effect of "How could she get a guilty on me when I'm town?" I'm trying my best to treat this with a grain of salt, but as far as scumslips go, this is quite a biggie.

I wouldn't consider it a scumslip

But I see you didn't consider this a scum slip either. I didn't either at the time because I was agreeing with LQ on his Transcend/Titus scum read. But going back to reread after the Titus cop claim made me reevaluate. (Unlike LQ who seems to be sticking with his Titus and Ranger scum reads.)

[texcat]

Although a bunch of people wanted to kill him on D1 before the push on Ira.

[texcat]

So yeah but I'm not sure how that exactly constitutes a scumslip.... assuming someone is Town is not necessarily scum-indicative as it's a pain in the ass to treat everyone as neutral in every single statement that you make.

I'm sorry but that seems too fucking dumb to be a scumslip, say what you want

Nevermind that some people can read sarcasm very well through text, while others have absolutely no indication for it

I can agree that neither of the slips is, by itself, conclusive. But I do think they add to what I think is a growing body of evidence. When I was reading through LQ's iso I also noticed that he seemed focused on himself. He asked people how they were reading him. Again, not conclusive, but something that I think scum do more than town.

[texcat]

Until Titus claimed 1-shot cop, I had her and Ranger in the scum and possible scum columns. While neither Titus nor Ranger are absolutely clear yet, they're certainly not our best lynch.

I have Smith and Umlaut in the town column.

That leaves A Plain Farmer, Bins, RC, Davesaz, listed from scummiest to towniest. I'm really unsure on Davesaz. I seem to remember a game that he had me totally fooled into thinking he was town when he turned out to be scum. RC seems impossible for me to read.

[texcat]

Why are people just going along with Titus in her saying it is between Texcat and myself? What logical basis is there for this?

This I can agree with.

[texcat]

Although a bunch of people wanted to kill him on D1 before the push on Ira.

Tru but I was one of the wholehearted advocates of NOT doing that.

VOTE: a plain farmer

Huh? Can you explain what changed your mind?

[texcat]

oh i thought you were referring to LQ with that conversation

if you look at my day 1 I wanted to kill a plain farmer but I switched to Ranger

NOW I AM BACK

[texcat]

Oops. Only got the quote without saying...
Thanks, this makes so much more sense now

[texcat]

VOTE: texact

Cuz I feel like texact is all whine and LQ is spewing.

Cuz that's a reason? Ok so that means that the reasons for voting are a sparse iso and because Titus thinks I'm whining? Does anyone actually have a reason for thinking I'm scum???

[texcat]

You have played a fairly analysis heavy game up to this point. Why the gut read now?

I suppose that's how I've looked so far, but gut has informed all of my prior reads as well even when they were also based on other things. Right now I feel like my texcat scumread is simply stronger than any of my others.

This looks like a load of crap.

[texcat]

Oh, yay, we're back!

Zach, tell me why I should vote APF.

[texcat]

A few points on LQ

• Two posts made from a scum POV. Whether you call them slips or not, they still come from a scum mentality. First says that Ranger can't know his alignment. (Does not say "Unless Ranger is scum she can't know my alignment.") Second, claims that the N0 guilty on him is wrong because there was no N0. (Does not say it's wrong because he is innocent.)
  
• Hammers Ira in spite of not liking the wagon
  
• Consistently worried about the votes on him. Repeatedly asks Bins and others to explain their vote on him.

[texcat]

Holy fucking swordfish Batman there is scum on texcat wagon

!!!

If you weren't an IC I'd want to vote you for this logic. First thing, not everyone on the texcat wagon thinks LQ is scum.

My reason is specifically because texcat's case on LQ seems forced.

I'm town, if you think texcat is town and we have an unconfirmed inno on Ranger, then who is the scum there? Second thing, if you really think a plain farmer is scum, why not try to get him lynched today? I'd be willing to go there if it seemed a lynch was possible.

Try to convince people with evidence.

This is total bull crap. First when I present evidence against LQ, you vote me for it. Then you ask Zach for evidence. ???
And BTW none of that case was new, I have said it all before. Why did it suddenly look vote worthy? This is such crap.

Keyword is mostly, you'll notice I said mostly all of you.

Farmer has barely interacted today and is on texcat just because texcat is stronger in his gut. I can't pull out shit from thin air to case him with.

That is a case -- absence of town can be the best scum case. Most of what I remember about your posting has been just "lynch x, don't lynch y", but if you gave this type of info before it's possible I just missed it. (I was already skimming over the 4th weekend, and then the downtime...)

This does not look like something town!Davesaz would say.

I'm saying it sort of like that but I didn't miss what you said. I've seen nothing from you or RC that tells me more town than scum and you guys being on texcat is icing on the cake.

1105 is the only thing anyone should need to be able to town read me.
Let me reinforce that some more. I want a L-1 in the next 3 days. I'd prefer it to be on someone in my probable scum list, but that isn't a requirement.

And this is exactly how Ira got lynched! Again, not something I would expect from town!Davesaz.

*channels iraonvp's ghost*

He says LQ is town-aligned

HE SAID THAT ON DAY 1 WHEN HE WASN'T IN GHOST FORM AS WELL

Ira didn't have any secret info on LQ. Just cause he thought LQ was town, does not make him town. This makes no sense.

UNVOTE: LQ
VOTE: Davesaz
This last series of posts from Davesaz was scummy, scummy, scummy.

[texcat]

I've played a few games with Davesaz. I don't think this looks like his town meta at all. What makes you think so?

For example, I don't remember him ever pushing for a lynch, any lynch like he did in 1626.

[texcat]

We had L-1 on texcat. What did you learn from that?

LQ voting to make the L-1 and then immediately unvoting was creepy but typical for LQ.
We did not get out of it what town needs to get from a L-1, which is either intent from someone, time spent at L-1 to see if scum will hammer it, or a claim.

This looks a lot like a scum claim. It looks like you know that I am going to flip town. Why else would scum hammer me? And why do you want to force claims from town? So you'll know who to NK???

[texcat]

And yet the only reasons given for voting me are a sparse iso and I'm whining. Look for scum on my wagon.

[texcat]

No, this is not a good choice.

What are your thoughts on Davesaz?

[texcat]

Why?

[texcat]

VOTE: Smithereens

[texcat]

I think that is

L-1

.

[texcat]

tex do YOU prefer dav still


how much of the smith vote is a save myself vote

YES, I definitely prefer dav. Voting Smith was an attempt to save myself. I think Smith is town, but I know I am.

[texcat]

VOTE: davesaz