Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Genji]

Hello guys, Ill start doing catch up soon.

[Genji]

I am reading various things on the setup mechanics and all. It seems though three dead power roles means that we don't have anymore though.
Since every additional power role adds more power to the town, with assumed starting power of zero, any power role claims now are scum claims essentially.

@Mod The setup is a little vague I guess in terms of this, does town start with 0 power roles if scum do not take any power?

[Genji]

Ohh retract that question found the answer in the wiki page:

The

town has two roles to start

, resulting in a maximum of five town roles randomly selected from the following

Its likely possible that town has maybe 1-2 more though?

I have to do some digging and then ISOs of players.

[Genji]

So I accidentally revealed it in my last post so I might as well full claim it too:
I am a vanilla townie, no power role here.

Also since this MYLO i highly suggest we take our time on this one.
My quick skim tells me I need to highly examine Superbowl and Rask.

[Genji]

Dodging a possible prod.
Will try to get this in the morning.

[Genji]

Partial ISO cast of SuperBowl:
22 Jokes about someone being scum again and then mentions the use of just daytalk, and talks about it being better than anything else
40 This continues talking about the most optimal options for scum to pick. This is theory talking but I like the thoughts on what scum might be thinking.
Theres a few posts in here void of content.
141 Mentions a focus on NJAC and thinks they are scum but won't vote.
144 Pedantic.
154 Makes a case against NJAC, one of the things jumping out was that he calls a person flying under the radar and even notes he is one of the highest post count players.
211 At this point superbowl has only voted town, the vote especially feels weak though.
239 This post has many pro town aspects in it.
291 Not sure what to think of this post, several aspects of it and the shade thrown at Vedith claim puts me on edge as it could be used to later place a vote on him.
293 Alot of conflictions in what to make of Vedith claim, most go against it seems. Though the end story is he doesn't come to any conclusions. My thought process was that he really didn't know where to believe this claim or not, the theory of it being unconfirmable maybe been the same as if he were scum wondering if Vedith was a gambitting townie. So everything else could be the same. Most aspects is not HOW he claimed, but what he claimed in relation to it.
387 This sounds like a genuinely frustrated post, and the frustration at it seems like it would be more townlike than scumlike.
399 Trying to get a final wagon going, the attitude I can see being more town than scum.

There is a huge shift in the later days, with first being the over defensive actions of him in previous days.
This is worrying for a few reasons. 1) He claims this was scummy kind of action (being defensive) with Vedith early in the game. Or at least hinted that defensiveness in contexts is scummy. 2) His approach to lynching order doesn't match what he says. For one he says the lynching order is "hebee>kyndy>stove>lycan". I couldn't find any serious thoughts on either my slot for kyndy in his iso, and much focused on Lycan and to a lesser extend stove.

So this being the lynch order seems strange, when you consider where we are in the game stage.


So early posts in the game I thought were very townlike from him. The latest I have trouble seeing his motivation beyond simply protecting himself from a lynch. Survivalism isn't a sole scum tell, but I think Superbowl feels pressure on him and is acting in ways that don't really match the motivation he was showing earlier.

[Genji]

Genji really hasn't changed anything on my judgement here with his asking about PRs and promising a catchup (although for what it's worth I think scum is more likely to flounder seeing they replaced into this slot).

Can you go more into this?
What do you think I am doing that is flounder?

I am not seeing much reasons to scumread my predecessor beyond them being a pretty much empty slot.

[Genji]

genji my man, can you tell me who you think is scum?

Yea, I'm tired of waiting for genji, can we lynch him please?

These are the only two posts where you even mention my name.
Can you explain how I am supposed to believe that this is real impatience?

[Genji]

Actually, the smarter play is to no-lynch IMO,,, I just don't like genji getting away from le pressure.

Genji genji genji, answer the question genji.

What pressure?

[Genji]

1) He claims this was scummy kind of action (being defensive) with Vedith early in the game. Or at least hinted that defensiveness in contexts is scummy.

Yes playing in a purely reactionary way (aka not participating unless someone attacks you) is scummy because it shows you don't care about the game or scumhunting, only about saving yourself. Do you think that's been the case with me D2 and D3?

2) His approach to lynching order doesn't match what he says.

Did you read the same post you took my lynch order from, where I justified the lynch order? That's not even my most recent lynch order... Are you guys even trying at this point?

I'm taking note that 3/4 of my POE scumteam have started scumreading me on the drop of a hat.

I would've needed a content post a lot better than that to make a dent in my scumread of the genji slot.
VOTE: genji

This is a reactionary post, about how being reactionary isn't town. Then votes me out of a reaction.
Can you do this, in anyway, that actually shows your attempts at scumhunting?

You have definitely showed nothing but survival kind of mindset since at least day 3, if not a bit at day 2.
Its a way different attitude than Day 1 is for sure.

[Genji]

genji my man, can you tell me who you think is scum?

Since I didn't answer this question. I might as well now.
I don't have the answers for you.

I have no definite reads right now.
I am back and forth on Superbowl alot.
If I were to take just the comments of day 2 and day 3 I would 100% support his lynch.

I haven't read everyone deeply enough, him being the only one, your impatience has me mixed on you and I can't quite figure if your attempting to be opportunistic or just genuinely fed up with gamestate.

genji my man, can you tell me who you think is scum?

I'm interested in this as well.

If we don't no lynch today, I'm willing to vote here or kyndy for the day.

Why Kyndy?

[Genji]

Skimming through Kyndy reads I can't see the transition between Superbowl being town to being scum.

[Genji]

No. The difference between me and NJAC is that NJAC scumread people for no reason other than the fact that they were scumreading him, whereas I have been scumreading you long before you started scumreading me. This is not to say that you can't start scumreading someone right after they start scumreading you, you just have to have a reason other than "I don't like that they're scumreading me".

If by "survival mindset" you mean more defensive, then yeah, I have been playing more defensive recently because people have started to make cases on me recently. Are you saying that as town in mylo I shouldn't try to keep myself alive?

Not getting lynched is one thing. Its entirely different when you seem bent on a lynch other than yourself without actually seeming like you are trying to find scum alternate to yourself.

[Genji]

I find it rather interesting that almost everyone has Kyndy in their scum teams, yet no one is pushing them alone, but has them in a group.
I find this very odd.

[Genji]

I've basically been feeling this way the whole time (not the part about the interaction w/ kyndy tho), his vote switching kind of reminds me of the hebi slot. Hence why I moved him up in my lynch order.

I'll be pushing for him tomorrow if we get there

.

This isn't good either.

[Genji]

Rask, can you please build a quick case on heebee's posts and why he's scum? I did two ISOs prior to heebee and I'm not really seeing anything particularly scummy, he still seems like lazy bad-town who voted without reading the thread which was further validated by him going AFK and replaced.

I'm not convinced he's scum and I don't think doing another ISO on him is going to change that without someone else's POV.

Genji's scum because a team without him is either literally impossible or has done crazy distancing. I've went over the old slot a bit before so you can check that. The slot itself is worse now because they're almost the assumed lynch but they're not really pushing anything, I'm not really seeing the desperation that would be appropriate for their position.

I'm thinking of why someone replaces into this situation in mylo to do nothing and I think it's way more likely from scum who'll get bussed and still has a wincon after death; the urgency of that situation versus being town and getting voted in mylo is pretty night and day.

Interesting thing is why he gives bowl that consideration and doesn't want to vote there after scumreading him. I guess if it was genji/bowl bussing each other this would be like a subversion of that but I still think bowl's more likely town, especially while genji/kyndy exists as a thing. Kyndy voting bowl doesn't really change the either-or team dynamic there assuming you ARE town.

Can you go into this anymore? I am slightly confused on the first part with the "crazy distancing" because, from my pov I haven't seen any amazing distancing happening when I read the game. So I am wondering who you think is creating this distance and with who.

I am also curious why you think I should have a strong read alternate to myself at this moment, when I haven't determined who is a strong scum. Though at the moment I believe you or superbowl are extremely likely to be scum since you are both voting me and I am not dead yet.

[Genji]

There is about 4 people softing Kyndy into their supposed scum team, but each one isn't pushing for that lynch.
I highly think they are scum being soft bussed by a few people here. Considering the slot is mostly been absent from this game day.

[Genji]

Ummm no.
Just no.

[Genji]

Hi everyone VOTE: Genji

I don't know if you realize this, but the game is in MYLO, we can't afford a throw way lynch.
I am positive you haven't read the game, so please unvote.

[Genji]

VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.

[Genji]

Hi not_mafia. I've read some games of yours. Nice to play with you.

That's a great vote! I like it a lot.

Maybe its just me, but I don't remember you ever pointing out a strong case on me nor representing thoughts that I was very likely scum. So this confidence on a vote in a MYLO is weird to rea.d

[Genji]

bastion is not only confirmed scum but is so scared that he just soiled his ISO

VOTE: Genji

You still haven't answered where this confidence on me being scum is. Yet you say here Bastion is conf scum, yet you don't vote him.

cleanup in aisle 3

Pointless

not bussing is claiming scum

You have yet to identify anything that ties our two slots together, yet you claim assurance that we are in fact scum.
What is your case against me?

It really doesn't look like you have one.

[Genji]

VOTE: Lycanfire

[Genji]

genji

#740 of course scum!superbowl can't put me in his top 3 unless he wanted me to make a shit ton of noise for the rest of the game. beyond that it looks like a buspost, because he's really grasping at straws here, and if they're team he knows he should be able to make some argument against scum, right? so i'm going to go with that stroke my ego for having caused it. ironstove was probably screaming genji town over this post don't know how he thought he was going to convince us of that considering he said to lynch genji a few posts later.
#754 imnotsurvivalistimnotsurvivalistimnotsurvivalistimnotsurvivalist
#755 accuses superbowl of being survivalist when besides for ironstove and himself i think the only question for everyone was who we were going to lynch after genji... well i was also pretending that i'd shoot a scumfucker tonight to pull NK aggro/ encourage bussing n shit.
#756 scumreads superbowl save for day 1... i managed to dig up a ton of crap to throw at superbowl. i mean fuck, the guy killed town day 1 it's not like nothing exists to scumread him with even if you want to ignore super/sora/hebee interactions due to obvious implications.
#823 ya'll gotta bus harder that's why
#824 looked fuckin' amazing. superbowl is a truck driver in a room full of shortbus drivers.
#825 only post of his that makes sense
#829-830 yes! yes! yes! looks hilarious how he has to remind NM that it's mylo when NM knows better than this. "I am positive you haven't read the game, so please unvote." sounds like the only thread NM didn't read was the pt not very subtle
#837
#828 cased your predecessor

Okay I found this, and what disturbs me is lots of wording here.
theres also a huge frame shift in a lot of my actions.

For instance, me reminding Not Mafia it is MYLO, is displayed as me talking to my scum teammate, which is odd, because not mafia joined in a game at MYLO then immediately voted and you assume from these facts that he is scum just recklessly voting and that he would do so in MYLO on his teammate with no question.

Then he starts saying my case against Superbowl is bad variously because I townread actions Superbowl did day 1. The odd thing is his way of "i managed to dig up a ton of crap on superbowl" sounds more like you want to frame someone, not actually find someone motivated by scum action.

[Genji]

So, Bastion, are you saying that you don't believe Genji's claim unless Genji states a more logical train of thought for what happened night 1 and 2? Cause sometimes, people make mistakes in my view. I don't know, you also kinda contradicted yourself in the middle with saying you believe people can make mistakes but also that he needs to more logically explain himself?

Don't know what this is exactly is referring too.

[Genji]

Also Lycan somewhere said I CCed him, when I claimed VT.
I have no idea where this "CC my claim" came from.

[Genji]

Assumptions to be made at this point:
at most only 1 person on my wagon can be town, because I haven't been hammered by scum.

That means either:
A) 3 people are scum on my wagon (unlikely)
B) 2 are scum and 1 is town.

My thoughts right now are that superbowl and lycan are unaligned. Which is from their interactions alone. I might be wrong on this, since I haven't seen much interactions lately, but its a gut feeling I get from reading posts.

That leaves if I take out those two being a scum in this position:
Superbowl/Rask/???
Lycan/Rask/???

So, we should theoretically be voting to lynch Rask, but I think Lycan/Rask is also the match.

[Genji]

Genji's response to N_M however is kind of assuming N_M is town though... considering he comes in and casually votes genji the response to think it's benign/carelessness instead of anything malicious (particularly from that POV) is pretty ridiculous. As is the point on kyndy without voting or even really scumreading her and in general not pushing anything beyond the force of gentle breeze... until the return vote on lycan. The treatment of N_M as town is actually good for the N_M slot though and because of how subtle it this there's no chance it was intentional.

As for lycan, bodyguard claim is actually good, d1 action sounds fair given light was sketchy at that point. Although, since I was wrong about JOAT double shot, I guess vig claim was never a possibility for scum to fakeclaim in the first place (and so it would only have ever been BG). But in that case I don't see the scum incentive of doing the vague claim in the first place; and it would be REALLY creative to do that entirely because it would be a town thing to do, when you already know what you'd claim in the end.

If you read Ironstove posting the way I did, I couldn't possibly imagine he was scum in the scenarios provided. Especially the hostility that was uneccesary. Why wouldn't I assume a person who just joined a game and threw a careless vote around would be town as well? Scum often aren't acting carelessly. Carelessly is more town trait/personality thing.

I don't see why you think Lycan bodygard claim is good.
If you agree with that sentiment, you should be voting to skip instead of going for a lynch in MYLO scenario.

Your reasons for scumreading me are very lose.

[Genji]

now at this point, if you'd please bus that'd be appreciated.

kyndy if you don't vote next time you enter the thread it's essentially claiming scum, btw

These don't follow, if Rask is scum Kyndy has been setup to be a mislynch bait this entire time.

[Genji]

I feel the same way Rask. Bastion not letting Kyndy and I fight was pretty much the spark I needed to read Ironstove as trying to scumhunt in ways other than asking if he was mafia. The less I intensely scumread Ironstove the more I appreciated how he was generating discussion.

This isn't what Rask was saying, and I don't see how you got this out of the posting.

[Genji]

I guess I overlooked the possibility that 2 players on my wagon were town.
GG I guess.

[Genji]

So I guess that I was right previously (before I adjusted based on the wagons)
That Kyndy was a bussing point for several players.

The team then I guess is Lycan/Bastion/Kyndy

[Genji]

Rask can I ask again why you thought it was good idea to lynch in MYLO?

[Genji]

Yes, you won.

[Genji]

Ill never understand why town decided to run up a slot that was empty over someone that everyone else had scumread.
But alas, thats just the nature of the game.

[Genji]

I practically gift wrapped kyndy to you

[Genji]

Lycan was town?
Huh.

[Genji]

I don't know what to think of this setup. I rather don't like it, it seems rather silly to me and too simplistic that it can be usually predicted what scum would do.

Getting Encryptor is more useful and then rest isn't worth it.

[Genji]

Definitely feel that Lycan handed this game to scum.

[Genji]

hebee>you>super. all scumfuckers.

everyone else->townfuckers. i'd no lynch over flipping kyndy, bastion or rask and nail your buddies... with my body! or a bullet.

[Genji]

What did I do?

[Genji]

genji most of your game you knew from your pov there was confirmed scum within {superbowl, me}
and you didnt vote one of us or try that hard to figure out WHICH it was between us two

I actually was leaning town on Super Bowl towards end.
I wanted kyndy lynched over anyone else, and was confused nobody was pushing that yet everyone had that as scum.

I had hard time forming reads since I was being attacked by nearly everyone.
I actually had townread on bastion because he was one of few who wasn't just outright pushing me.

[Genji]

But the correct play was to no lynch in MYLo situation.
Lynching in MYLO is almost always bad

[Genji]

But the correct play was to no lynch in MYLo situation.
Lynching in MYLO is almost always bad

to be fair if this was a game where people picked JOAT as one the mafia powers (which is more common than rolecop and ESPECIALLY BP) no-lynch would just have shaddowez killed and one less vote to mislynch someone

so it would have been the optimal choice here but not in like 8 of 10 scenarios similar to this (3 mafia things chosen), so as a theoretical choice it wasnt really that good

actually I take this back
Joat strongman would have been used n2 onto highhopes and not have been available for n3.

Which would mean to resolve Lycan, no lynched was best bet.