[Game Over] Open 673 - Tit for Tat

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Alright everyone, I'll generate some discussion by asking a few random and easy questions to various players. Maybe we'll be able to gleam some info from how they word their answers.

Cooperative Sheep: How well can we trust you to tell the truth?

Bellaphant: Do you prefer playing as mafia or town?

Transcend: Are you a mafia goon?

Sesq: Are you a member of the Illuminati?

projectmatt: Do you tend to be on the winning team or the losing team?

Siblings Quarrel: What's the square root of 1,867?

theplague42: What's your usual Day One strategy to sniff out scum?

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Thank you. This is my first game on mafiascum, but I'm not exactly a stranger to mafia. It's been several years since I've played a game, though. So there's a little introduction from me, so that I'm not just asking the questions.

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I was planning to ask the rest if those questions started to dry up. But here you go:

The_Jester: Do you feel you play more confidently as town or mafia?

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@Charloux I see your point, but all players regardless of alignment are either sniffing out scum or pretending to. So I think it's a legit question, in my opinion.

Regardless, these are just random questions to get people talking about the actual game. Some may be more helpful than others. Sometimes it generates discussion, sometimes it fizzles out.

To answer your question, my experience is all forum based, but it's been years!

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@Charloux Good question. I'd say winning, since by winning, I'm almost certainly having fun too. It's possible to have fun losing, but who wouldn't want both? I certainly wouldn't go outside the rules of the game to get there.

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@ECMitchell No rhyme or reason behind who got questions, or what question they got. As for your other question, I think that's a pretty fair statement actually. I figured someone would pose a question back at me, so I wanted to show I'm perfectly willing to have two-way discourse and that I'm not exempt from scrutiny.

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I don't really understand why I'm getting votes. Sheep, can you elaborate on your comment?

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I see your point. This is how I usually started games in the past, and to my memory it was never interpreted as a scummy thing for a player to do, regardless of their alignment. Maybe game openings have changed somewhat in the past 6-7 years, I dunno.

But yeah, I can see why you'd think of it as busy work, and I imagine most of my votes are for similar reasons. All I can really ask for is mercy. There's still plenty of time left in Day One, so I'd appreciate a little more time to contribute.

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@theplague42 Yeah, I'm a pretty calm player even when the heat is on. If I became overly defensive or angry that could be interpreted as scummy. I've explained myself with honesty and humility and I think that's a best practice when you've made a mistake.

I still don't think we have much meat to go on at this point, but I'll say I'm feeling fairly good about Siblings and Sheep for town. Mostly a hunch, but I think they've presented good questions and reasonings. Nobody thus far strikes me as overly scummy. I was slightly suspicious of Mitchell after he praised me and then voted me, but I'm not convinced either way.

@Transcend what exactly are you not feeling good about?

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@Jester Well, I'm definitely a bit rusty, that's for sure. My initial post wasn't met well and so because of that, I DO care about my appearance and the way the rest of the town perceives me. It's frustrating to be perceived as scum when you know you aren't, so I'm trying to be cautious and level-headed, and not let the heat get to me. I don't think that's a scum response, it's a human response.

@Bellaphant Here are my current assessments. Like I've mentioned before, there's not a lot of meat to go on now so a lot of this is hunch.

Jester - Fairly high confidence as town based on his inquiries to me. I thought he had some very reasonable questions, and I think he's honestly trying to sniff out scum.

Siblings - Similar read as Jester

Charloux - If he was mafia, I'd expect him to be nudging people towards voting me in order to get a mislynch, not giving me the benefit of a doubt. So I'm reading him as town.

Cooperative Sheep - Slightly suspicious now because of the vote on Sesq that didn't have much reason behind it. We're past the random voting stage. Not much scumminess otherwise.

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Oh wait, now I see Jester's vote for Sesq. I kinda agree with Sesq here, what's the rationale behind that?

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I also want to hear from Jester regarding his vote on Sesq. It came right after his negative comment about Sheep's pressure vote, yet he voted for the same person! That's bizarre, and I lost confidence in my townread right then.

Also losing confidence in Siblings Quarrel. The Sheep wagon feels very forced, although if it was a mafia attempt to mislynch a townie, it would certainly put Siblings in an obviously bad light. So I won't call Siblings mafia just yet.

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Maybe it's not Siblings we should look at for starting the wagon, but those who jumped on without much thought. That appears to be Sesq and Transcend. Can you two provide more explanation?

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@Jester Fair enough, thanks for the explanation

@Transcend I'm not saying wagons are inherently bad. I'm just naturally a little suspicious when someone hops on without explaining why. You DID say you wanted to vote Sheep before the wagon. Can you go into a little more detail about that?

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Can you answer Jester's question then? How'd you miss the Sheep votes?

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If you can't or won't explain yourself, then it's fair to vote you.

VOTE: Transcend

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I read through the thread, this vote absolutely stinks. I understand pressure wagons, and RVS votes do tend to build up a little wagon with people jumping on willy nilly, but this point of the thread, I feel that the game was getting beyond RVS and starting to get serious, then you jump onto the biggest wagon at the time, with no reason apart from sheeping.

Hey Kop, welcome! I'm not really sure about this though.. Sheep jumped on the wagon against me not long after ECM and Siblings did, and I don't recall any strong reasons for those votes either. I mean, yeah, it's a pressure wagon, but why did you single out Sheep? Can you elaborate on why his vote stinks but the others didn't? Just wanted some clarification in case I have missed something.

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Someone prepare a fly then.

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It's a pretty cute gimmick.

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What hole? Post 182?

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What hole? Post 182?

Yeah, it's a pretty big hole.
His case is predicated on how I should have pushed sooner than I did - even though I didn't post at all in the apparent theory timeframe that would have been the 'town' timeframe to post,a nd also ignores that I did immediately follow up on my question and pressure when next I posted.

The case is utter bollocks.

But I don't see why you wouldn't have just explained the vote in the same post.

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Sibs just made a great point.
VOTE: Sheep

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My hunch is that Sesq is scum, saw the Sheep wagon as a lost cause, and backed off. Either the derail would work or she'd look less suspicious. But like Kop said, we're getting into wifom territory. It's still my best scum read at this point though. It was becoming more and more clear sheep was scum, if sesq was town wouldn't she have supported the wagon?

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Charloux, I think you're right. Sesq and Sheep really don't look like partners. Sesq and Transcend have been my biggest scum reads but I'm less sure about her now.

VOTE: Transcend

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I didn't realize it was L-1 so soon. Forgot we lost two last night.

@ECM, if scum killed plague who would benefit from that? Sesq?

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Oh right, I remembered plague quarrelling with Sesq at day end but it was actually SQ. nevermind.

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Transcend originally voted me because I wanted to question those who entered sheep's wagon without giving a reason. He was one of them. When I attempted to interact with him and sort that out, he refused to give me the time of day, which I read as scummy.

His latest vote against me is because I put him at L-1.

So, he's mad at me for being on HIS wagon, when I originally questioned HIM for being on someone else's. Granted, he was on a wagon that caught scum but we weren't as sure of that at the time. So I really don't get why he's so adamant about me. I'm not a great player but I don't see my behavior as scummy. Fifty exclamation marks and calling me a "piece of shit" isn't helping your cause.

Also, for what it's worth, I kinda liked ECM's points on Matt. Not totally sold yet but his asking about the number of scum did seem a bit LAMIST at the time.

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People have used rqs as a standard in the past, he's only acted in the way he remembered being proper. What's the deal

Thank you. I don't get why this was blown so far out of proportion. Like I said before this is my first game in about 7 years or so. That's how we all did it on my board. It carried no scum OR town connotation.

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Inter was probably being bussed

Also MIND YOU GUYS

Intermission is not a noob. He's just been on a hiatus for a while.

What do you classify as noob? I don't recall how many games I've played but it's probably around 5 or 6.

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There wasn't much to take from those answers. Like I said, it's just an opening that sometimes gives you a hint, sometimes doesn't.

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I admitted I'm not a great player. You don't have to be a jerk about it.

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How else would you like a game to start? I think an RQS has a better chance of revealing info than a RVS. I'm not sure why RVS has become the standard, honestly. So I'm not sure how you read that I'm "trying to look busy" when I'm breaking ice the best way I knew how. If that's the entire basis of your scum read, I would encourage you to rethink.

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It would be trivial if it didn't appear to be your entire reason for hounding me all game.

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Bella, I've given reads throughout my posts. Granted I haven't done a list so here:

Charloux: my best town read, I doubt scum would've taken pressure off my wagon like he did
Transcend: I still think scum
ECM: decent town read, I like his recent post on matt
Matt: starting to look more like scum
Kop: town
Bella: town
Sesq: I flip back and forth on her. Maybe scum?

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Forgot Jester, who I also read town

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English please?

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Sorry all, I have some serious family issues going on offline and haven't even thought about the game since my last post. I can't guarantee I'll be online much for the time being so it may be best to go ahead and replace me.

Enjoyed playing with you, hope to see some of you in a future game.

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Congrats to town. Wish I could have stayed around for a proper lynching. =)