Look, its Dyslexic Tepes!In post 882, Killthestory wrote:hey STOP WITH YOUR UNprtozufviyBR CONVRRSRATIKSN
yes momo has posted recently and yes they could be sk
I kid.
Look, its Dyslexic Tepes!In post 882, Killthestory wrote:hey STOP WITH YOUR UNprtozufviyBR CONVRRSRATIKSN
yes momo has posted recently and yes they could be sk
did you read the post where I said I was lynched Day 1 8 times in my first 16 games???In post 884, Music and Mail wrote:None of this is alignment indicative for RC and makes sense in the context of him being lolwagoned as town really frequently and that making the game unpleasant and hard to play for him.In post 879, LicketyQuickety wrote:[snip]
I mean I think he's dealing with the situation sub-optimally but you'd be pissed and frustrated with people too if this shit happened nearly every game.
Go ISO me and find the big post for starters.In post 887, Music and Mail wrote:Okay so do you actually think we're scum? If so, why? Tried skimming to find your reasoning and I couldn't really find much. Link me the posts?In post 885, LicketyQuickety wrote:did you read the post where I said I was lynched Day 1 8 times in my first 16 games???
Yeah, I was frustrated as well, but I did 2 things:
1) Kept playing
2) Changed the way I played so that I WOULDN'T get Scum read early nearly every fucking game.
RC has done Step 1. He still needs to work on Step 2.
Mafia is brutal, Mafia is war. I have been in games where I was literally in tears because my responses were getting torn to shreds and I was made to look like a crazy person who was either Scum or beyond terrible at the game as Town.
Look who is getting universally Town read Day 1.
I did see something about you thinking stuff sounded manipulative but manipulative =/= scummy. It's playstyle indicative.
You didn't address shit. You gave a one liner for that thing.In post 890, Music and Mail wrote:If you mean the wallpost you made near the start of the game then I addressed that already.In post 888, LicketyQuickety wrote:Go ISO me and find the big post for starters.
BZZZZZZZT.In post 899, Music and Mail wrote:Because nothing in his ISO sounds genuine except for his push on momo.
I just checked your post count... holy fuck.In post 903, Sakura Hana wrote:For this to be groupscum lynching SK you need to make several assumptionsIn post 899, Music and Mail wrote:Because nothing in his ISO sounds genuine except for his push on momo.
1) You need to assume there's an SK in the setup (There's 50% chance according to the setup page: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B )
2) You need to assume groupscum knows if there's an SK (Once again, 50% chance all groupscum roles appear both with and without an SK)
3) You need to assume momo is an SK.
I think the better explanation for why his push on momo feels genuine is that he's simply town that thinks they found scum.
Hawk is not the type of player to use that tactic as Scum I don't think. They are not a data oriented enough type of player to do that.In post 907, Music and Mail wrote:"Information Instead of Analysis"In post 904, Hawk wrote:Sorry what's that Abbreviation mean? It's one I'm not familiar with.
They have not done it yet this game.In post 914, Music and Mail wrote:Evidence for this?In post 911, LicketyQuickety wrote:Hawk is not the type of player to use that tactic as Scum I don't think. They are not a data oriented enough type of player to do that.
Pretty much the only answer I have ever seen RC give when people ask for a catchup post.In post 918, Music and Mail wrote:We all agreed momo was the worst and decided to lynch him.In post 917, Antihero wrote:postie did anything happen in the last 10 pages or can i sleep now?
Also Sakura and Hawk are still scum.
Meta =/= Data, its kinda the opposite depending on how its used. I am talking about number and tangible concrete things, not things based on behavior at all.In post 927, Music and Mail wrote:Oh I see what you're saying. I disagree though. Take a look at some of the meta he was throwing about, particularly near the start of the game. It's IIoA.In post 920, LicketyQuickety wrote:They have not done it yet this game.
Sure that'd help.In post 923, Hawk wrote:You want I should link some of my games?
I'm heading to bed now I'll let Anti take it from here.
Would have expected you to argue that they are talking about the setup, but you didn't. That would have been the best argument.In post 929, Music and Mail wrote:Well then you're not addressing my point. I'm using IIoA in the sense ofIn post 928, LicketyQuickety wrote:Meta =/= Data, its kinda the opposite depending on how its used. I am talking about number and tangible concrete things, not things based on behavior at all.InformationInstead of Analysis, not Data Instead of Analysis. He's giving information and not analysing it. Whether or not he's giving data is irrelevant when that's not part of my point.
RCs case on Hawk is wank. They are straight up making up shit.In post 931, Antihero wrote:it's just youIn post 720, momo wrote:Is it just me or is RC just working total bull right now.
Reasons come when I feel like it.
I will act like I am better than you because it is true.
Everything will be for my own, unrevealed reasons.
Is it just me or is this obvscum.
Gives me much :/In post 933, Antihero wrote:noIn post 763, LicketyQuickety wrote:@Anti, can you sorta see this as a rf from KTS?In post 738, Killthestory wrote:hey m and m would it make you happy if I sheeped you
i mean I probably won't sheep u on momo but yknow ill sheep u not on hawk either... Hmm I'll sheep u on another person
@momo, lol stop wking lq and focus on actual game shit. i could give a fuck less the dudes iq but his play is stupid.
also, fun fact: i've not once in my 8 years here seen scum make a concerted effort to "rolefish"
Their vote on Hawk when I said Hawk was being defeatist andI then instead voted RC because I thought something fishy was going on with RC/Hawk.In post 936, Antihero wrote:ah, yeesh...In post 823, LicketyQuickety wrote:I think KTS is Town.
...
...
...
really?
Its a tin foil hat theory that RC is bussing Hawk and Hawk is acting like "well, that's the plan" and is acting all defeatist because they areIn post 943, Antihero wrote:i'm sure there is a universe where that sentence makes sense...In post 937, LicketyQuickety wrote:Their vote on Hawk when I said Hawk was being defeatist andI then instead voted RC because I thought something fishy was going on with RC/Hawk.
this one is not it
:/In post 947, Antihero wrote:lq if you want to lynch m+m, you will have to do it without my vote and against my advice
KTS didn't see what I saw, they just saw that Hawk looked like shit for lying down ready to die early D1 for shitty ass reasons.In post 951, Antihero wrote:what does any of this have to do w kts?In post 946, LicketyQuickety wrote:Its a tin foil hat theory that RC is bussing Hawk and Hawk is acting like "well, that's the plan" and is acting all defeatist because they areIn post 943, Antihero wrote:i'm sure there is a universe where that sentence makes sense...In post 937, LicketyQuickety wrote:Their vote on Hawk when I said Hawk was being defeatist andI then instead voted RC because I thought something fishy was going on with RC/Hawk.
this one is not itsupposedto get lynched by RC here. I also really want to push RC because I honestly haven't seen anything you can call traditionally townie from them.
In my book (I have a lot of experience with getting Scum read for this) If you can't come up with a reasonable reason for Scum reading someone, it is likely that they are Scum because this is the corner stone of a good Scum game and something that must be taken under heavy heavy scrutiny. Honestly there is so much potential WIFOM surrounding what the read on RC is that it is borderline repulsive. Every defense that RC has given in retort of being Scum read is literally "If I was Scum you would not be suspecting me." In what universe of Mafia should this kind of defense fly? If you are proficient enough in the game to get awarded an award for being most cunning manipulator, you should damn well know that reasons for why you do what you do, even in the case of lynching Town, even if those reasons are hidden from other players, must be sound. You do not have a superior game as any alignment without superior reasoning skills. Because of this I know that RC has the ability to provide reasons and they are not doing this. They are coasting off their meta and it is damn right sickening. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard that using arguments such as "because I said so." I might be crazy here, but at least I give reasons for doing the shit I do and I am God tier Town read in some of the game I am Town because of this.In post 953, Antihero wrote:unless it's something measurably suboptimal like faking guilties or not claiming miller in the first post or something else technical like that, there's no such thing as "objectively scummy"In post 950, LicketyQuickety wrote::/In post 947, Antihero wrote:lq if you want to lynch m+m, you will have to do it without my vote and against my advice
Why is RC Town?
That hydra has acted objectively Scummy... I know meta is a thing, but acting blatantly anti-town is NO reason to Town read someone. I think RC is pulling strings. That haven't made a single solid push yet. Their current vote is on Hawk for reasons of IIoA used horribly wrong. Occam's Razor... If it looks like Scum...
also i don't think the hawk push is scummy ...?
That's like saying Tells don't exist.In post 965, Antihero wrote:first things first, nothing is "objectively" anything right now
Let me say it this way: The better the Scum game someone has, the more scrutiny they must be put under each and every game. Good Scum players should never get an easy Town read. They should have to bite and claw for every Town read they ever get. This is why I chose to get better as Town instead of Scum.In post 966, Antihero wrote:jfdslkaaaaa;jelk;vmal;dsjfewk;fsdmc;lkjfdew;lfj;lkdvjroie439jflkdedafwe392pfjdkl;afmcvmndskfjewi;9a23In post 963, LicketyQuickety wrote:In my book (I have a lot of experience with getting Scum read for this) If you can't come up with a reasonable reason for Scum reading someone, it is likely that they are Scum because this is the corner stone of a good Scum game and something that must be taken under heavy heavy scrutiny.
I don't have time right now to tear apart M&Ms case on Hawk right now, but if that is what it takes for you to consider M&M as Scum I will do so tomorrow.In post 968, Antihero wrote:i don't agree with thatIn post 963, LicketyQuickety wrote:RCs case on Hawk is objectively bad. Not only are they reluctant to actually give reasons for their Scum read on Hawk, but the reasons given do are not logically, informationally, or site meta sound. There is literally no substance to the read whatsoever. It is all smoke and mirrors for RC to spin a story Day 2 on why they wanted Hawk lynched. Hawk has said they have insight into why RC is tunneling them, that reason being so RC can single handedly solve the game by looking at reactions from a lynch on someone who is giving up and town reading the person who is tunneling on them.
hawk didn't really do much in his first couple posts aside from say something about uzi and his PR game. now... i didn't really know what to think about that but i could see someone looking at hawk's early posting and going "scum trying to avoid doing anything meaningful."
these are SUBJECTIVE things, btw.
Nope, I am giving an example of what RC AND Hawk should be doing right now.In post 973, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:He's just giving you an example of what he thinks RC should be doing here.In post 971, Antihero wrote:i don't rly know what parallels that game is supposed to have w this one....In post 963, LicketyQuickety wrote:Thor665 Scum reads me hard core, I don't give up, I fight with him for pages and pages of wall post after wall post. I am not even sure the guy is Scum, but I still think the stuff he is doing is shady. Town won this game in a landslide because I did not give up fighting. It was literally David and Goliath. This is the way games should be played.
That is a matter of debate. Tells definitely exist. If they didn't, no Scum would ever get lynched.In post 969, Antihero wrote:tells don't exist
Hawk IS Scummy. RC and Hawk are both Scummy.In post 954, Antihero wrote:and hawk's not scummyIn post 952, LicketyQuickety wrote:KTS didn't see what I saw, they just saw that Hawk looked like shit for lying down ready to die early D1 for shitty ass reasons.
your point?
If all you need to read someone is Motivation, thought process and tone, then there are tells in each one of those. Yes, you should be able to identify the tells in those for them to be valid.In post 978, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Motivation, thought process, and tone are all you need.
And I agree, that's all you need.In post 979, LicketyQuickety wrote:If all you need to read someone is Motivation, thought process and tone, then there are tells in each one of those. Yes, you should be able to identify the tells in those for them to be valid.In post 978, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Motivation, thought process, and tone are all you need.
I am someone who thinks I can potentially can catch Scum in RVS, so I disagree that you can't tear someones case to shreds D1. Reason is the basis for getting reads, not evidence. Evidence is just the vehicle for reasoning. I also think everything has the potential for being AI given proper context. What makes catching Scum in RVS difficult is that there is not usually proper context to base a read on, but that does not mean that its never there.In post 981, Antihero wrote:errrrr.... what?In post 974, LicketyQuickety wrote:I don't have time right now to tear apart M&Ms case on Hawk right now,
early d1 cases are not rly things to be "torn apart" and that's a pretty good sign you're in a tunnel
Not tells that apply to everyone, no. But they do exist for individuals.In post 983, Antihero wrote:objective and absolute tells do not exist.In post 976, LicketyQuickety wrote:That is a matter of debate. Tells definitely exist. If they didn't, no Scum would ever get lynched.In post 969, Antihero wrote:tells don't exist
i don't think you'd find much debate from anyone on that.
i think you're really fooling yourself (and doing yourself a disservice) if you frame your subjective opinion as an objective fact.
Well, I am going to attempt it nonetheless. Its just a matter of finding counterarguments, that is all a debate is.In post 986, Antihero wrote:ok you're getting distracted by generalities so i won't go there any more
(and of course if you use a large enough sample size pretty much ANY method is going to "catch" scum eventually)
i'm saying that in this SPECIFIC instance, rc+postie's hawk case is not something you have "torn apart" and it's something you are not likely going to be able to "tear apart"
WTF kind of post is this?In post 1076, Hawk wrote:Okay sure creature can be town for now I'm keeping an eye on you tho just in case.
You still feel off but I guess not Scummy off.
I played like shit that game, even for my Scum game it was bad, honestly. Not a good indication on that way I play except like day 1 maybe day 2.In post 1090, Sakura Hana wrote:null and null-town, i have no idea how to read Creature, and LQ is playing differently than in Gistou where he got ran up hard even by his own scumteam.
In post 1137, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:He's one of my best friends in the world. Like... actually.In post 1136, LicketyQuickety wrote:I am not thrilled with ETL, honestly. Looks like they are buddying Anti here.
I don't meta dive, but I don't think you are lying since easily confirmable through Anti. You get that I have to poke you on that though right?In post 1138, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:There is plenty of evidence to back this up - check any of my past like 20 games.
That is weak. Playing as Scum is like Leg day: you do it because if you don't do it you look ridiculous.In post 1156, Creature wrote:Yeah, I noticed about your replace outs...In post 1152, Sakura Hana wrote:Indeed i do, to the point that rolling scum 3 times in a row last time was demotivational enough to replace out of all 3 games, or 2 of them.In post 1151, Creature wrote:You hate playing scum, right?
Well, just point this out because Scum already know this, but momo isn't Vig because if they were they would know there could be 2 kills at night without a SK.In post 1168, Creature wrote:Fine, but I like to discuss game theory more, specially when my reads aren't changing at all.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they even knew wheat that meant when they said it.In post 1174, Creature wrote:Did momo ever claim to be an alt?
I like the content of this post, but I don't like the timing of it.In post 1165, Hawk wrote:Mmmm I think Momo has been playing pretty scummy. His play feels very forced and consistently just trying to snowball some kind of pressure. His counter pushes to pressure on himself is to OMGUS and or draw up misreps. Mail and myself (possible music) actually scumread him for reasons concerning his play but he doesn't engage with that instead presses us as policy lynching him. He misreps me saying that I'm following M&M when I was the first one to objectively scumread him. I don't think he's as new as he acts and it reflects in some of his statements meaning I think he recognizes what he's doing he's just choosing to ignore it for newbie shield.
M&M I think at least RC's head is very passionate and has displayed a very apt desire to be the center of attention and lead town. Confident to the point of being cocky I don't think even an experienced Hydra wants to draw that much attention as scum. I do find her stubbornness to refuse to give cases and only give one or two reasons at most with no follow up for her pushes to be annoying and kinda scummy so I can see how LQ and Uzi don't like it.
Mail on the other hand has been rather collected and calm. A nice compliment to RC but no less manipulative/cunning in their play.
Overall I think that slot is more likely town than scum but I don't think I could see reason to lynch there over Momo today. Not unless Momo's play really picks up and he stops playing so objectively terrible -_-;
Oh, NVMIn post 1194, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:I asked him for it.In post 1187, LicketyQuickety wrote:I like the content of this post, but I don't like the timing of it.
Your slot happens to be one of those lurkers.In post 1197, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:What are the chances we've got a lurking scumteam? Because I'm seeing a lot of activity from the same like 5 or 6 people and none from the others.
Not who they replaced. That was my point.In post 1206, Killthestory wrote:no etl is pretty good in comparison to othersIn post 1203, LicketyQuickety wrote:Your slot happens to be one of those lurkers.In post 1197, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:What are the chances we've got a lurking scumteam? Because I'm seeing a lot of activity from the same like 5 or 6 people and none from the others.
Point being: they argue lurkers could be Scum all the while picking up a slot that was a lurker.In post 1212, Killthestory wrote:i havent read the first 20 pages still so im probably being dumb with what i thought was an obersavtion so feel free to disprove me or whatever
@lq, oh well give etl a chance lmao they're picking up activity reasonably enough
LOL. You think someone like ETL is going to just obvscum it right off the bat? I don't think so. They've been here since 2013. I think that means more than it looks. I'm not just going to hand our a Town read for someone catching up.In post 1215, Killthestory wrote:someone asked to be invested lol
@lq, ok fair enough but etl seems town so it doesn't really apply
Well, at least you are consistent wanting to pressure lurkers.In post 1223, Creature wrote:tbh I don't use this "oh scum can't be all lurking" as a mindset. Lurking is bad and scum shouldn't get away easily with it.
Not likely.
Holy shit, Creature might be right about you not knowing the setup.In post 1232, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Innocent Child doesn't balance out Godfather to be honest.
OK, lets take it easy here.In post 1238, Creature wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if LUV thought he was joining a Large Theme.
I just don't feel motivated atm.In post 1247, Creature wrote:I'm feeling like we're wasting time and that's sorta odd.
ALL GAME LONG...In post 1273, Antihero wrote:oh jeez...In post 1267, momo wrote:VOTE: KTS
Def agree with Antihero's reason.
Feeling like this would be a good D1 lynch.
We didn't even get to see how he reacts.
Disagree. Even a "WTF?!" can give info.In post 1283, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:You wouldn't have gotten anything out of KTS. There wasn't any pressure.
I don't think you are the best choice for investigation..In post 1304, momo wrote:Guys I am telling you that if you investigate me I will come out town. So just wait one game day.