Open 694: Friends and Enemies (Game Over!)

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Hello everybody.

Kill all chikoritas

That's racist. VOTE: GameNBurger

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What makes 26 so towny?

bc he was genuinely confused and trying to figure out what i was talking about

You think only town can misunderstand a statement and question the meaning behind it?

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That's not the question here. I'm asking you directly, do you really believe that Fenraiser is locktown as you said, and is your only reasoning for that really that he pointed out something that he didn't understand?

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...he didn't dodge the question? I asked him a yes or no question and he said no, then I had a followup question.

Now I'm thinking tran is town and connor is sheeping...

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Well that was easy.

VOTE: Transcend

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oh a crappy little trap ain't gonna get me lynched

connor's scum his 43 is bad

his 7 is also bad

It was indeed a crappy trap but surely you realize that the ease with which you fell into it is problematic? Why do your reads blow with the wind? Why do you think you can solve the game on page 2?

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I hate Transcend's play and most (all?) of his reads and logic, but he's not scummy atm.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ConnorJC

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good enough raya

hey since i townread you what do you make of sun's 12?

it looks kinda opportunistic imo and i don't think it was made in jest.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. 12 seems a bit nitpicky to me. There was nothing scummy about Fen's statement, it was simply a comparison to other sites. I actually don't even see how he could be suggesting the rvs votes were anything but serious either. There was nothing within his post to suggest that.

Don't like Sesq's 8, either. Fourth vote with no comment.

it's called RVS it's what we do here

I thought players that were new to this forum had to partake in at least one newbie game before going into other queues just so that they got used to site meta and shit even if they've played the game before but guess not grr hiss growl

Playing a newbie game is only recommended. My technical first game was a micro since the signups filled up first and I'm actually still in my newbie game even though I've already finished another game.

I'm down to vote Connor. His second post does seem quite sheepy.

VOTE: Connor

Why don't you think SunChild's 12 was just a joke?

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I hate Transcend's play and most (all?) of his reads and logic, but he's not scummy atm.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ConnorJC

I think it's pretty scummy. Do you think all his reads are substantiated in his own head?

If the reads are fabricated, what was his plan? What's the play? To draw a bunch of attention to himself and get lynched?

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Only three scum in the game, but half of you guys seem scummy.

Welcome to Mafia.

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you're reaching

You believe Raya is town? How do you feel about her play thus far?

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@EchoVision - I asked because you said SunChild was reaching. SunChild was describing his suspicions of Raya. So you think he was reaching in those suspicions, and Raya is not scummy? But actually, it sounds like you have the same suspicions... so why did you say he was reaching?

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Echo is obv town

Lynch sun.

I need some meat on these bones. Tell me why I should consider Echo obv town.

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^ By that you mean Echo/Sun? Or who

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Raya's seems incongruous too. Spends most of post 79 talking about other things, then jumps on Connorwagon almost as an afterthought because "he seems sheepy." Then unvotes when Flubbernugget tells her to.

Only three scum in the game, but half of you guys seem scummy.

you're reaching

I'm not too sure about his fluidity with Connor, he votes him and then less than 15 posts later he just kinda agrees that somebody was right on Connor so he unvotes.

If connor flips scum I'm okay with looking at this as a potential scum buddy. Would make sense if he voted it as an excuse "nah I sus'd him at one point I can't be his buddy"

If the lynch went through then he looks good because he was on the wagon, when the wagon started loosing steam he was like yeah i don't have to be here and dipped

Echovision, explain to me the difference between what Sun said about Raya and what you said. I ask because you seem to be scumreading Sun, and the basis seems to be that he had reachy, opportunistic reads? But as far as I can tell the two of you actually said the exact same thing about Raya. Can I get your analysis on this? And in no uncertain terms, do you currently consider SunChild as the most likely player to be scum?

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@GameNBurger - You haven't participated much. Tell me how you feel about Sesq's play, and what EchoVision looks like to you.

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@Sun - We are nowhere near a point where I'm comfortable lynching anyone. Several people have still not contributed to the game whatsoever. In fact there are still so many lurkers that the entire scum team could be within just them, while we sit here chasing our own tails and manufacturing suspicion. Furthermore there are still a number of questions I need answered.

Kindly disable your caps lock key and sit tight for a bit kid. This game requires patience.

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@Raya36 - What are your thoughts on EchoVision's play so far?

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Because a bunch of people have up and disappeared and I need to hear their thoughts before I share mine. If they are town they should have no problem answering a few simple questions and helping us along here, eh?

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My current vote is fine IMO.

Their thoughts shouldn't be contingent on mine. To recap, I have asked for thoughts from:

- EchoVision, about some of his statements regarding SunChild
- GameNBurger, because he's lurking the everloving shit out of this game
- Raya, because she's taken some questionable actions so far

If I've done something suspicious that any of these three people are curious about, they are free to ask and I will answer. What they should

not

do, however, is simply refuse to answer the above questions and deflect. That's all I'm saying.

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you can form opinions and revise them if you get your answers.

I will.

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I have established myself as obvious town and this game doesn't need my help to roll on so I think people are ok with keeping my thoughts to myself for the time doing

Then why did you cast suspicion on Transcend in one of your previous posts? And how do you feel about him now?

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Not sure what's so hard to understand about the fact that I can't share theories that I haven't fully formulated yet... as I've said already, if there's something you want to know from me then ask away, and I will answer to best of my ability. But can everyone stop with this ridiculous notion that I'm not allowed to ask people questions and then draw conclusions afterwards? It's actually harmful to town and you're stifling communication. I don't need to spill out everything that's on my mind, most of which is half-baked and probably wrong, for you to answer simple questions. And you're not helping your image by avoiding the questions and deflecting.

For you specifically @EchoVision, once again refer to my #144. I'm still waiting.

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Multiple people now have suggested I shouldn't be waiting for answers from lurkers and should just be posting my own thoughts. But it's the wrong approach to this game.

[wavemode]

I didn't realize something, oh well. shit happens.

This is not at all the crux of what I asked you... I don't care if you didnt' realize something. I had a specific question about your reads of the game.

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So you are refusing to answer?

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I think it's great play as long as you don't take it too far.

What is "too far"? And what do you make of Echo's response here?

Still waiting for gamenburger this evening btw, then I have some thoughts to post about what's been going on.

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I don't like that he hasn't made conclusions from all of his questions. Makes him look like he's just being busy

Hmm. Not sure whether to read this as towny impatience or scummy shade-throwing.

Either way, I've already said I have some things to say as soon as gamenburger gets caught up and makes his statements, so it's weird for you to be casting this suspicion here. I'm going to post very soon.

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What's with waevmodes shitty logic on keeping their opinions to themselves until others opinions come out, and then arguing other people's opinions shouldn't depend on his?????

Well, it's not logic, it's just facts. I'm not defending my playstyle... my playstyle just is what it is and if people don't like it then... tough? You can just choose to be uncooperative like EchoVision if that's your preference.

And if you actually read the context of what you're referencing, you'd clearly see that I'm specifically talking about answers to questions. If people are still making up their mind about things like I am, that is fine. But I don't know why they can't answer simple questions. And, likewise, for the third time now, if anyone has any specific questions for me, I will gladly answer them to the best of my ability.

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Eating. Writing. Game, thank you very much for your input. Wallpost incoming, sit tight folks.

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needs everyones opinions before he can spill his own.

Still false. You guys can keep repeating this but it won't make it true If anyone wants to ask me anything, fire away.

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Alright, I've seen enough here.

I don't really want to kill Echo anymore. He's decided to posture himself as trolly, irritable, AND uncooperative. Whiiiiich means he's probably town. Scum want to look like they are trying. Town just want to try.

Sun is most likely to be scum here, that much is clear. He doesn't really have reads, he just has insults. Yes, we know Transcend is acting like a fool. But give us more than that. (I didn't really bother reading through his meta dive since meta is stupid and just feeds confirmation bias.) His scumread on EchoVision similarly hinges entirely on insulting his play rather than pointing out things that actual scum would be trying to do in a game like this. Furthermore, his pushes on Trans and Echo make perfect sense. In his own post, he expresses confusion as to why we aren't voting Trans. He thought Trans and Echo were safe places to attach non-sheepy votes because he expected to get more support, because of how ridiculously they’re playing ( no offense, guys <3 ).

Even looking orthogonal to this, Sun’s play in general has been awful. Meaningless shade thrown left and right and confirmation bias in the extreme. He also seems to have started the game with some joke posts then lost all sense of humor by page 3, lol. His anger feels forced. If it’s not… lighten up buddy, it’s just a game.

With that said, I VOTE: SunChild.

Now from this point, we use SunChild as an anchor and analyze the posturing of the townsfolk.

If Sun flips scum then Trans and Sesq look pretty damn good. (Of course, that probably means they’re the scum team and this was epic strategic bussing…)

Raya would probably be town here, too. I gave her an opportunity to throw shade on Echo, Sun’s sworn nemesis, but she held back, like, a lot. She’s sheepy, but the thing about being sheepy is that it’s only really scummy if you’re secretly a wolf. But Raya seems like she is really a sheep. Newbies like this usually flip town, honestly.

Fen RVS’d twice. He switched his vote to Sun as a joke (supposedly) then promptly took it off once there was heat on Sun. Kinda interesting distancing.

What forced me to take a second look at Sun was Flubber, tbh. He had a weird reaction to Sesq voting Sun (too early to place a begrudging vote like it’s a compromise? Is this real talk?)

Sun and Game could be partners. Sun pulled on Game for his Trans wagon and Game pushed away, but then in the end said he townreads Sun anyway, and STILL joined the Trans wagon. He seems to not scumread Echo, but that could be distancing. He still made a bunch of points against echo.

The way Connor is postured is just bad. His push for Trans/Echo being the team is very much aligned with Sun’s views. He townread Fen for almost no reason and dislikes Sesq… oh boy.

Jjh and bombcat are null. Just very little participation from either.

Alright are we satisfied here or do I get the noose

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@jj Because Im not convinced he's town, really.

@Connor well this is the wagon I back at the moment. If we take him down and he claims mason or he dies and flips town then obviously I'll need to re-assess.

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I have already given my thoughts on Transcend. Check my ISO.

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No, look further back than that. I was the first person to vote Trans. Look at why I unvoted him, and my response to bombcat. My thoughts on him have not changed since then.

Sorry, on my phone or else I'd pull this all myself.

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Game because I asked you a direct question? You specifically said you would join the game but were still lurking.

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Alright back on my computer. Yeesh, I forgot how lazy some players are... scroll down like two inches in my ISO and you see this.

I hate Transcend's play and most (all?) of his reads and logic, but he's not scummy atm.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ConnorJC

I think it's pretty scummy. Do you think all his reads are substantiated in his own head?

If the reads are fabricated, what was his plan? What's the play? To draw a bunch of attention to himself and get lynched?

My thinking has not changed on Trans since I posted this. He has not really struck me as scum and, frankly, I agree with him on his Sun read. So yeah, I consider him town at the moment.

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All the town gets is not knowing your opinions until a slow user (me) catches up thru 11 walls.

I disagree with this sentiment, since I am always been open to questioning if anyone is curious about anything about me. Just ask.

Like, would you rather I just lurk the game away like Sesq? She and I are the same in that we don't post everything that's on our mind all the time. The difference between me and her, though, is that I try to question people in the meantime, since I believe it helps the town. I don't really see anything wrong with that.

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Re: #92... I forgot this before but Connor directly responded to this post! Yet now seems to have forgotten it exists...

I don't know, I still just think you guys are lazy. This is NAI.

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-> Discrediting meta dive strictly for play style, and then saying you shouldn't read off of good/bad play

-> Second paragraph scum reads Sun's bad play

Yes, I scum read how Sun's entire case against Trans and Echo (besides meta) is based on insulting their play, while he himself is playing quite poorly.

Trans and Echo votes are both safe votes yet also make perfect sense

Uhhh... yes. As scum he considers the two lynchbaitiest players to be safe, justifiable votes that will seem non-sheepy to push for, so it makes perfect sense that he is doing just that.

Sun trying to get his desired lynch through is framed as confusion as to why people aren't voting for it

Maybe confusion was the wrong word... but uncertainty. He spent several posts specifically asking people to explain to him why they weren't helping him on his lynch. Implying that he considers the lynch to be common sense, and that people should naturally be getting behind him. That's not scummy in and of itself, mind you. I simply mention it within the context of everything else.

If sun is a mislynches, basing the entirety of his reads around sun's interactions sets him up to look town while doing nothing useful d2.

This is sort of pointless to say here... we all know that if it's a mislynch then we need to re-assess everything. But I don't believe it will be a mislynch, so why not get a jump on analyzing the game? I might not be alive tomorrow to say all these things...

Also there's nothing really in here to have to have waited to make a post for

Eh, you are free to feel that way, my man. I said I'd wait for some people to answer my questions, and then make a post, and that's what I did. If you still feel that me waiting a few days is some sneaky scum strategy then I don't think arguing about it further is going convince you otherwise...

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So, just to clarify, you think Trans is town because:
- You can't figure out why he would draw himself attention as scum
- You agree with one of his reads

I've already responded to how attention doesn't mean getting lynched. Additionally, not being able to figure out someone's plan as scum could just make them good scum if they are scum (aka the point is meanigless).
Also, you're almost guaranteed to agree on reads with everybody. I agree with some of Transcend's reads, and he's my top scum right now.

You're thinking about all of this wrong.

Like, I don't read trans's posts in and of themselves and say, wow this guy must be town. No, I just

don't

read them and think he's

necessarily

scum, for the reasons I gave. That's what's called null.

Okay, now, I currently believe SunChild is scum. So, assuming he is scum, then someone I'm currently null reading who is leading the lynch on Sun looks pretty good to me. Guess who that is? Trans. If Sun flips scum, Trans looks like TownyMcTownerson. Not confirmed, of course, but he would look pretty good. And that's my current expectation. So... yeah.

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wave was pansyfooting around before told against it by me

Hm? When did you tell me to stop pansyfooting? Or, what are you referring to here

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This sun lynch is feeling really,

really

good at this point. There have been lots of votes in this game and not one has gotten this much pushback. Like, game, flubber, connor, why are you so concerned about Sun's well-being? Flubber in particular, you're going WAY more in-depth and putting in WAY more effort to discredit my read on Sun than anything you've done this whole game. Like, if you three are town, you don't really know for a fact that Sun is town, do you? Why fight so hard? I'm free to scumread him if I so please. If you think the real scum is Trans then go argue for that rather than ganging up on me.

Like, it is actually so telling that after one read onto Sun I am suddenly public enemy number one. Lynching correctly on day one is so difficult for this very reason. If I just helped along the trans or echo wagons nobody would look twice at me. Hell, I had a vote on connor this whole game and nobody gave half a flying fuck about it lmao. (That's kind of improving his image in my eyes.) Then suddenly I switch onto sun and, holy shit, here comes the cavalry. Like, me helping you guys kill Trans or Echo, and nobody really saying much about it, and everyone just kind of going along with it? That reeks of Town vs. Town. But this? This is the real shit. There is scum at work here to derail this wagon and it's so obvious. I just hope I live long enough now to laugh about it.

PEdit: ^ oh wow what is thiiiiis. "grossly misreading" "misdirect" "terrible vibes" sweet jesus this is the motherload of newbscum. Word of advice, brother, that was a purely innocent post and I was just explaining my playstyle. You're trying

way

too hard to throw shade there.

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Pedit: There's 3 masons in the game, so there actually are 3 town players that know each other to be town.
Also, maybe people are criticizing your reads now because you actually fucking posted them instead of refusing to give analysis like the first 10 pages of the game.

No, that mason shit doesn't fly. You can know someone is town and still recognize that people have legitimate cases against them. That's not a situation where you turn around and blindly scumread the person attacking your partner, that's a situation where you calmly present a better case for who you believe the real scum is.

And no, I'm not talking about this in a myopic sense. I'm considering the game as a whole, and my experience in Mafia in general. When you're right, it strikes a nerve. I hadn't really seen any nerves struck this whole game, until now my one post suddenly raised an army to attack not just my post, but my playstyle and everything about me. Recognize here that I don't feel good about this Sun lynch simply because people disagree with it. I feel good about this Sun lynch because people disagree with EVERYTHING I've done now. Suddenly people are scrutinizing my questions, and my posting habits, and my reads, and my past statements, and my "grossly misreading" "deflecting" "bad vibes" things. I am now the enemy, and the scum are currently trying to discredit absolutely everything about me. I just don't know yet who among you are actively trying to and who are just the naive town.

@wave do you have any reads that aren't based on the premise that Sun is scum?

Uh, ok. Sesq and Echo in general have really played more of the observer role than active participator. They aren't really playing like they want to help the town progress anywhere. But, I mean, those reads are obvious... everyone has said these things. But yeah, those are the best I have.

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there's like 3 other people to go around to accuse of scum if that were the case

Dude, do you even realize what you're saying... those other people are Trans and Echo. The people you and Flubber and Sun want dead! So, thanks for agreeing with me?

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To address your pedit first: no, I just don't like it when people respond to something I am talking about dorectly with a tangential subject. Why is my post newbscum? Other than using specific language, how is what I'm saying scummy? Please be clear and tell me directly.

Also I basically just stepped into this game as an actual player, you can see a progression of my thoughts on Sun, I think in the end he's town. I can't speak for other but from what I see is people pushing you, not your vote. Also what are you even on about grouping us three together and that if we think we're all town that we should look at sun as possibly being scum? What are you trying to imply here?

Alright you are asking for a lesson so I will teach you.

It's not about the words themselves, per se, but how you're using them. First of all you're responding to completely non-hostile post with unbridled hostility, always a bad sign. And saying things like "grossly misreading" here just means you're trying to amplify the weight of what you're saying. Why couldn't I have just been misreading your post? Why is it a gross misreading? What does that even mean, and where do you draw the line between gross misreadings and regular misreadings lol. And then you say you want to give me the benefit of the doubt, but then you dont! Come on man, give me the benefit of the doubt. Don't say you want to give me the benefit of the doubt and then not give me the benefit of the doubt. That's just uncool man.

"misdirect" and "terrible vibes" serve similar purposes here. Like, if you have some logical thing to put forth, just say what it is you want to say, in explicit terms. I tried to take away suspicion from me and put it onto Sesq, and that makes you think I'm scummy. There, was that hard? That is how normal people say things.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is, you're not really saying this like a human being, sharing their thoughts and arriving at a logical conclusion. You said it like a lawyer makes his final statements in court, with as much brovado as possible so it sounds like you have absolute confidence in the things you're saying, to make what I did sound much worse than it was. In reality, I (may or may not have) misread something you said. But in your post, I'm a fedora-and-trenchcoat-wearing don corleone with a monacle, drinking wine and stroking a cat, laughing maniacally to myself as I INTENTIONALLY MISLEAD THE TOWN with my GROSS MISREADING. MUAHAHAaaa my master plan is coming to fruitionnnn

Also, I'm not saying you three, if you are town, should look at sun as scum. I'm saying you should be looking at Transcend and Echo, your scumreads. Your focus should be on proving that they are scum and getting support for those wagons, not on me and attacking everything I do.

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Assuming that one person is scum and building the rest of your reads around that basically means the rest of your reads are worthless until Sun dies.

Yes. Exactly. Everything we do here is worthless until someone dies. I could scumread whoever I want but until they're dead, we don't know for sure, do we?

Like, I'm perplexed by this way of thinking you have, that I should just dance around and point fingers at a bunch of people, cast the net wide and go the path of least resistance. We've got to lynch somebody. ONE somebody. And right now I think that somebody should be Sun. I don't pretend to know for a fact who is scum here or who is town but I've got a damn good read and I think it's our best shot. If I'm wrong I will re-assess (or get lynched. who knows ) but we will cross that bridge if and when we come to it.

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Dude has an "army" of two votes against him and he's freaking out

Mm, "freaking out" is kind of the wrong characterization here (also, that's kind of juvenile shade to throw). More like, emboldened. I can smell the blood of scum, crying out against the lynch.

I actually very much doubt you guys will gather enough votes to lynch me here. Your cases are nitpicky and opportunistic, and I don't think we're playing with lots of newbies at the moment. And even if you do lynch me, when I flip town all will come to light sooo... you're fucked. Whoever "you" is. Still not sure of Sun's partners tbh. Game looks very good for it but so do you and Sesq.

[wavemode]

If we're not going to get enough votes to lynch you then you're by your own admission wasting time addressing the cases on you

Hm, that's an odd way of looking at things. Regardless of who is saying it or why, if there's inaccurate arguments being made against me then I'm going to counter them. Why shouldn't I?

[wavemode]

Also returning perceived hostility by being condescending in the first line means you're a rude townie bad at conflict resolution or scum trying to piss people off to draw spotlights elsewhere, so do try to diffuse hostility with kindness (or without condescension)

Word of advice, I think you should just go ahead and stop assuming the things I say to you are in bad faith. You asked me to explain something and I did. If something about that pisses someone off or someone thinks it's condescending, that is purely in their own head.

[wavemode]

i think it was in contrast with transcend, who was actually doing stuff

you're really dodgy with the answer about all your reads being based on sun or not

convince me on sun wagon. currently im at "hes an oldie who doesnt know what new meta is so hes going off old meta and thats not working well" and thats town probably

I've given my case against Sun. I've also given cases against other people, I'm just not personally convinced those other people are necessarily scum. So at the end of the day if you think Trans and Echo and I are scum for believing Sun is the most likely scum here then... you've chosen your side, I suppose. Nothing I say or do is going to convince you otherwise, except changing my read, which nothing so far has led me to do.

[wavemode]

I've also given cases against other people

Really, you have? Because last I checked you'd only accused other people of being scum based on your Sun case, rather than them acting scummy.

Remember, every read that is based on the premise that Sun is scum, and doesn't work if he is town basically doesn't exist right now. You can post them, but expect me to treat them as if you didn't supply any meaningful support, because you didn't.

Okay Connor can you do me a favor and actually read the game? I feel like this is the third or fourth time you are very obviously overlooking statements I've made. You asked me what my non-Sun reads were and I told you, point blank.

lol at this point I feel like just responding to these questions with "refer to my iso" and nothing more. It will save us all a lot of time.

[wavemode]

Okay Connor can you do me a favor and actually read the game? I feel like this is the third or fourth time you are very obviously overlooking statements I've made. You asked me what my non-Sun reads were and I told you, point blank.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought your "cases" were referring to you calling out people because you believed that the scum were rising up to defend Sun.
If you meant your previous reads on Sesq and Echo, I mean sure, they exist, but you've literally put no effort into them and even yourself admit that they're weak analysis.

Okay then maybe

I'm

misunderstanding here. What is it you actually want from me? To argue for reads I don't believe in?

[wavemode]

I never said your post was bad faith, I said you're assuming that mine was in bad faith. I wasn't being condescending to you or trying to piss anyone off. You asked me a direct question and I simply explained to best of my ability. If you don't want to believe that then that's on you buddy.

[wavemode]

he asked Connor what do you want from me I think that's a very scummy thing to say

It was a rhetorical question... and what is so scummy about it, anyway?

[wavemode]

also i checked your sunchild read and it was incredibly inaccurate and a complete misrepresentation soooo stop

Alright, let's discuss. What's inaccurate about my assessment?

[wavemode]

When mafia is frustrated and they don't know why they're under pressure they say what do u want from me. It's a classic webcam mafia scumtelk where people let things slip out but it can happen when mafias trying to be transparent in text mafia

Hm. Alright, thanks for your analysis.

Connor, the (rhetorical) question still stands. I really don't see the point in pushing on people who I don't really think are scum, so of course my other reads lack effort.

[wavemode]

If anyone wants to lynch me they're gonna have to get theough boyfriend Transcend

Wait, what do you even mean by this? If someone wants to lynch you, they can simply get together 7 votes and do so. What does transcend have to do with it?

[wavemode]

That said I would prefer seeing more reads based on what we know to be true not what we think may be true.

The problem with this sentiment is that we don't really know anything to be true.

Something I've learned is that lynching correctly on day one is never the obvious or easy path. If a certain day one choice feels obvious or easy then that just means that the scum are trying to make it seem that way, and encourage the town to run in a particular direction. Or the town are getting themselves riled up about something and the scum have decided to step back and just let it happen. But when a certain choice starts making you lots of enemies, that's how you know you're probably on the right track.

Sooo, yeah, that's pretty much where my head's at right now. As sesq correctly pointed out, you can't just look at the game in terms of pure logic, but also gut too. And my gut's telling me that the cases people have right now for scum!wavemode are just

bit

too nitpicky and childish to all be legitimate town suspicion. I'm definitely getting pushback from scum right now, and that's giving me confidence that I'm right.

[wavemode]

Not if it's two hours of work though I just want god to take it off the end

This made me laugh

[wavemode]

Also, bombcat, answer truthfully - are you really trying to win this game? We don't need you here if you are not.

[wavemode]

This bombcat wagon essentially amounts to a policy lynch. I really don't think there are super high chances that bomb is actually scum here.

[wavemode]

Do we honestly have anyone more likely to be scum anyway?

Oof. Ow. Red flags going off in my head. This kind of thinking is why I hate policy lynches, because they're nice and idealistic in theory, but in reality they get us nowhere, and they buy the scum an extra day to do whatever they want because the person almost always flips town. The scum are only blending in right now because they are specifically trying to. bombcat is not because he's not.

lol bombcat wants me dead and I still think he's town. That's because I've seen this policy lynch nonsense play out before and it's never good.

[wavemode]

Disengaged

Help

Pardon?

[wavemode]

Actually, I was just stating it as a matter of fact. I find it funny that he suggests I was "freaking out"... he sort of made it sound like he has a legitimate case for me being scum that I should be worried about, when really he doesn't.

Also, you either scumslipped here or didn't read the whole post. "You" does not include town. I was specifically talking to the scum.

[wavemode]

Hm.

[wavemode]

Are you trying to pull ahead of me in vote count

[wavemode]

post* count

[wavemode]

Your Hm. tied us up at 66.

[wavemode]

When did my name become waveform?

And flubber is really starting to look like scum if his argument against me of all people is that I'm a policy lynch.

[wavemode]

Yeah flubber's no fool, he's been playing this game for quite a while. Way too long to genuinely be calling for a lynch on jjh right now for no other reason than that he wants to kill bombcat. That's incredibly naive. And way, way, way too long to be calling me a policy lynch.

[wavemode]

Is fisking AI?

Also, I don't particularly recall fisking anyone... though I remember you fisked my sun read and I responded to each of your points to clarify my position.

[wavemode]

Time since their last post.

Yeah, where is Sesq?

@Sesq do you still want me dead? I'm curious.

[wavemode]

So you're doubling down on this opinion. Alright, let's deconstruct.

Calling for a policy lynch implies that you believe that even if I'm town, it's better for the town if I'm dead than alive. It's like if we kill bombcat here - even if he flips town and scum were on the wagon, they would just say "well, we voted him for trying to out PR's, which is anti-town". So it's sort of a hands-off, cop-out lynch, in all honestly, and it gains the town no information. So I am to understand that you are genuinely calling that the town should help you lynch me, whether I'm scum or town, purely on the basis that I fisked?

I mean, am I mischaracterizing your position here? Because first I thought you wanted to lynch me because you thought it was scummy that I didn't want to share my thoughts. Then later I did share my thoughts and the reason became that you didn't like my read on SunChild, and that deducing more reads from my Sun read was a scum strategy. Now you are saying I could be town or scum, but it's just better for the town that I'm dead either way.

Like, I'm pulling these things right out of your ISO and they sure look to me like you decided you wanted me dead and are just picking and choosing your reasons as the wind blows. But hey, I fisk so I must be stupid, therefore I'm probably wrong

[wavemode]

MY NAME IS NOT WAVEFORM

And this game is feeling more and more like we will mislynch today...

That said, I do like Fen's grand entrance to the game much more than I liked GameNBurger's. Your analysis has a certain clarity to it and it goes beyond just surface-level observation of things that are already obvious to everyone. Plus you don't want to kill me which is always nice.

You do seem to scumread Sesq. As I've said before, there are likely three scum within the four {Flubbernugget, SunChild, GameNBurger, Sesq}. I'd much rather compromise on a Sesq vote than no-lynching or killing bombcat. Thoughts?

[wavemode]

By Fen I mean Egg.

[wavemode]

Yeah Im still feeling the wave lynch

I feel like I might have been played and he's the kind of scum that intentionally likes picking fights that are meaningless

Why do you feel the need to constantly re-justify this vote? You sound like someone trying to protect themself from an eventual town flip.

Also, did I pick a fight with you, or was it the other way around? And was the fight really meaningless? Evaluate.

[wavemode]

None of the rolefishing plays you guys seem to think bombcat is making are remotely worth getting lynched over, putting the scum team at an instant disadvantage.

VOTE: egg

you're voting me with an excuse instead of a read, there's no way you think i think the masons will out because i called jjh727 a mason

But then, like the voice of God, he posts this while I'm in the middle of writing this post... This vote could be scum motivated. It's pure, self-admitted OMGUS. If it were an isolated incident I wouldn't say anything but he also has an OMGUS scum read on jjh. He could have called jjh a mason so that nobody would think anything about him dying in the night.

[wavemode]

If egg is scum for doing that then why isn't connor?

[wavemode]

Welp that's all I got. Still very skeptical that bomb is scum here.

[wavemode]

The thing about my brief bombcat theory is that it sort of hinged on bombcat being stupid. But I don't think bombcat is stupid.

[wavemode]

Yes, OMGUS is a bad thing when used to simply discredit the person making a case against you, rather than actually responding to their points. But I don't really need to explain that to you, do I Sesq? You know I don't want bombcat lynched.

These two lines are interesting:

if someone makes a bullshit case on you you vote them. no shame in that, and it really looks like you're just trying to buzzword around to get a lynch on them.

combined with earlier asspulls i cannot believe you are pushing this lynch in honesty

I've been pushing hard today

against

lynching bombcat. "if someone makes a bullshit case on you you vote them" - really? Like bombcat's BS case against me? So you should be praising me for wanting him dead. Except... I don't want him dead. I think he's town. Wait, now you've got me confused.

i was kinda unsure before but yeah i dont think you can be town anymore

VOTE: wavemode

Oh, okay now it makes sense. You wanted to sheep your buddy but needed a good reason to. Alright, good play I guess. Probably what I'd do in your situation.

[wavemode]

Though I'd probably find better reasons...

[wavemode]

I don't think you're partners. I think bombcat is town and you're likely scum.

[wavemode]

i think that you secretly want him lynched based on how you are framing things

...and you've concluded this from one post I made, putting forth one theory, even though the whole rest of my ISO has been in defense of him? lol ok buddy

And you know what

really

is telling me you don't actually believe the words coming out of your own mouth, and are just looking for reasons to kill me? You're one of the people who was suspicious of me for only having reads based on SunChild! Lol so putting forth an alternate read and an alternate theory is now making you even more suspicious? Yeah, no. I don't think you're a fool Sesq. This was a calculated move.

[wavemode]

if an argument always makes sense in every context then it is pointless. mafia, and logic even, 101.

You're the one who said this and I agreed with it wholeheartedly. You were either lying about being suspicious of me for not having alternate theories, or you're lying about being suspicious of me now. Likely, you're lying about both. But you can't have it both ways.

[wavemode]

Yeah Im still feeling the wave lynch

I feel like I might have been played and he's the kind of scum that intentionally likes picking fights that are meaningless

Why do you feel the need to constantly re-justify this vote? You sound like someone trying to protect themself from an eventual town flip.

what is that even supposed to mean?

Forgot to answer this. I actually thought his post said something different than it does so I had a theory about it that doesn't apply anymore. Sorry GameNBurger.

But the other part of what I said in #581 still stands. He was for some reason suggesting that I picked a fight with him but really it was the other way around with his terrible vibes nonsense. And he admitted my points were valid but not alignment indicative. So it's weird for him to be suggesting now that the things I said were meaningless.

[wavemode]

what motivated the sudden change of mind?

I never changed my mind. By your buddy I meant one of the other guys on my wagon. Don't know who.

bombcat isn't even voting me right now. And I'm not sure how I could have meant him when I think he's town anyway.

[wavemode]

i've called you out on your general dishonesty and shiftiness regarding how you scumread me and you're yet to really address it, and that's what bothers me; if you just scumread me for dumb reasons and kept pushing it insistently i wouldn't mind, but its your entire methodology that tells me you are not providing full enclosure with any of your actual thoughts, and that's what causes me to form conspiracies about your real thoughts, because you haven't established yourself as someone to be trusted at all.

Eh, you can feel that way if you want. I've changed my mind about you several times at various points in this game, but for a while now I've just had you at "likely scum". It's still possible you're not, but it's likely, so that's why I treat you as such. Just haven't felt the need to pull out a wallpost on your actions and put all my gut feelings into words simply because there's still uncertainty there. The one I really want and am most confident about is SunChild. As I've said before, I would settle for voting you over a no-lynch, but it's not my first choice.

[wavemode]

pewpew you shoot, I dodge

You use very high level analysis when you feel like it but use very shallow, low level analysis when you feel like it. You're a perplexing player that's for sure

[wavemode]

I suppose.

I'm still not convinced that Bombcat is doing anything more than trolling. And I think how people react to him is more telling than his own actions.

You think he's town?

[wavemode]

The problem with the plan is that if he really wanted to kill jjh, he didn't need to make this whole spectacle. He could have just kept quiet and done it.

He'd have to have a very juvenile understanding of the game of mafia to actually think that a play like that would make him

less

suspicious, rather than more.

[wavemode]

Or maybe they realize I'm town and don't want to lynch me at all?

[wavemode]

I wouldn't be so sure. But it's possible.

[wavemode]

This comment ^ is entirely redundant - you've already said several times that you think jjh is scum. I point that out because it's strange for you to be pushing this hard and repeating yourself that we should kill jjh, yet have never actually presented any case against jjh. Why should we just take your word for it that he's scum?

[wavemode]

jjh is a garbage lynch. I have a feeling that jjh vs. bombcat was town v town. And this is sort of a surface-level observation (that is so say, it all could have been an act), but I don't really get why scum would push back so much against getting called a mason. I was waiting for jjh to sort of just keep quiet about it or not make much fuss, but he actively pushed against it even though being quietly considered a mason would definitely work in scum's favor at this stage of the game.

So yeah, I'm not feeling this one at all. Or any of the current wagons, for that matter. And that's worrying because of how close we are to the end of the day... I worry people will just start to acquiesce to voting where it is simply most convenient.

I'm still up for compromising on a Sesq lynch. As I've said before, my concrete case is that she's put very little effort into solving this game and I suspect her reasons for pushing on me have been fake. The rest of my feelings here are gut, based around a general disparity between how I expect experienced players to approach the game and how Sesq has approached this one. And of course, I still believe Sun is scum, so I don't really like how Sesq had a good reason and voted Sun, then magically turned around and said he was town, then didn't engage with me much until I scumread sun, then voted me, then unvoted me after I said scum were trying to kill me, then voted me again once she found another reason to. But again, those are just gut feels...

I could be wrong but I

think

we have enough scumleans on Sesq to make that lynch happen. And I really, really think it gives us a much better shot right now than no-lynching or killing bombcat, jjh, or trans. Or me (obviously). VOTE: Sesq

Also I'm a helpful guy so I will save my naive wagoneers the trouble: "Look at wave he's so scummy changing his vote like that". There, now you don't have to say it

[wavemode]

Sesq is lynchbait and Vedith is actual scum. Trust me

Sesq is not really playing this game like lynchbait. That would imply an unwillingness (or inability) to prevent her actions from seeming scummy even though she's town. But she definitely has taken an effort this game to manage her image. Posts like this:

i've called you out on your general dishonesty and shiftiness regarding how you scumread me and you're yet to really address it, and that's what bothers me; if you just scumread me for dumb reasons and kept pushing it insistently i wouldn't mind, but its your entire methodology that tells me you are not providing full enclosure with any of your actual thoughts, and that's what causes me to form conspiracies about your real thoughts, because you haven't established yourself as someone to be trusted at all.

Tell me I should not be looking at her as someone who just isn't giving a damn what people think. And that's just the general vibe I've gotten from her this whole game. That is to say, she's not just responding to people's points against her, but is actively concerned that people should be townreading her. So yeah, when I notice her doing things that are scummy, that makes me think it is actual scumminess and not just her playstyle.

In contrast, Vedith's predecessor EchoVision actually did play the game like lynchbait, not really caring that his carefree approach to the game was making people suspicious.

[wavemode]

No valid mega case exists. He's been in the game for like 5 seconds. And if you're basing it on meta, that just means you're looking for differences in his play. Differences in play are not alignment indicative, sorry to say.

[wavemode]

I'm looking at Vedith's whole ISO. It's got 20 posts and most of them are 5 words long. If you really think a wallpost is going to change my mind here then go for it I guess but this is absurd that you're randomly so sure of this read when he has yet to actually interact naturally with anyone this game. There is more to scumhunting than making niggling points about the random shit people say.

My stance at the moment is that I townread Echo, and his replacement has yet to say or do anything substantive that would make me suddenly turn around and change my mind about that.

[wavemode]

I also think that you are just a dip shit town rather than scum.
But trying to use out of game influence with games that are currently running, I want you lynched for that.

Killing a town right now is not helpful to us whatsoever. I urge you to reconsider this stance.

[wavemode]

if I recall correctly his read on Sesq is based solely on his Sun scumread

You don't have to recall, you could just read my post. Then you would see that it's not just based on Sun.

[wavemode]

But disputing someone for using the phrase "I recall" doesn't contribute absolutely anything to town so ughhhhhhhhhhhh

Good lord. Statements like this are really starting to irk me this game.

This should come as no surprise but if a Game wagon is forming I'm all for it.

[wavemode]

I have the exact same feeling. I'm town, bombcat is town, transcend is town. Pretty sure vedith is town. jjh is probably town but I could be wrong.

[wavemode]

Egg is also very likely town.

[wavemode]

Well, I'm town, so naturally I think his play has been atrocious since he pushed on me for a while. The shade he's thrown at me repeatedly has been really minor, meaningless things. And that's not scummy in itself - it's the fact that so many other people have done so many worse things this game and he doesn't comment on them one bit. So that doesn't strike me as him just playing paranoid, it strikes me as him being out to get me.

[wavemode]

What reason would he have to be out to get you as scum? I think the issue here is just how you'e perceiving him.

Well who knows. My running theory to that is that he's scum with Sun

Either way, by the time Game got into the game I had a group of people voting me or saying I was scummy so it could have just been opportunism.

[wavemode]

Fifth from the bottom is not a townread? Then what is it?

If I made a list of people in a set order, Echo would certainly not be near the top. But I still think he's town. There are only 3 scum after all.

[wavemode]

Wave, don't answer things for me.

Uh, he didn't ask you a question? He asked the town to vote you.

[wavemode]

You're doing that on purpose you fucking chicken foetus

[wavemode]

Sesq is bussing Flubber.

@Mod can we get a day extension because of how long this SunChild replacement is taking?

[wavemode]

Vedith is a mislynch.

[wavemode]

Since we have an extension now, could we indeed start a flubber wagon? How is everyone feeling about that vote? Connor you say you think he's scum so that would make three of us. Do we have four more?

[wavemode]

UNVOTE: Transcend

Now, why is each slot wagoned?

Sesq is wagoned because she's scum. The rest are wagoned for no good reason.

[wavemode]

Vedith is town. Wake up people and let's make a Sesq lynch happen.

[wavemode]

Vedith, are you a mason?

If Vedith has no claim then kill him.

This lynch is a mistake, btw.

[wavemode]

It's not a dumb question. If you're a mason this wagon will go away and we can lynch someone else. It increases our chances here.

Please do consider doing someone pro-town for once.

PEdit: Transcend unvoted. Everyone chill. Vedith, don't claim.

[wavemode]

Please do consider doing something pro-town for once.

EBWOP

[wavemode]

don't mason your best friend, mason a scumread or someone you're unsure about to sort their alignment.

What does it mean to mason someone?

[wavemode]

POST 1000

Sorry, carry on.

[wavemode]

Oh I see what you meant.

I think you're mistaken. There's no Masonizer in this game, just vanilla Masons.

[wavemode]

Can we kill Sesq?

[wavemode]

Why wouldn't Sun make a meta dive as scum? If he does it as town then he would just carry over that play style.

[wavemode]

VOTE: Sesq

[wavemode]

I don't know what I expected but I didn't expect that and I guess this is good.


Townreads: Game, Sesq, Wave, Raya, Connor, Egg, Flubbernugget
Townleans: Bombcat
Null: Transcend, Sunchild,
Scumleans: Vedith, Fitz
Scumreads:

is where I'm at right now.

Transcend, come back to the game and talk to me about some of these reads.

VOTE: Vedith

Calling it now- it's Vedith, Game and Egg, and I would like to lynch them in that order

I mainly got flagged to the non-Vedith scum by the people making bullshit counterarguments to my Vedith case

So yeah Egg literally made shit up in order to justify their defence of Vedith. Can we decide on one of the scum to lynch

jjh can you explain how you went from townreading Egg, to scumreading him for "bullshit counterarguments" in defense of Vedith, to now still scumreading him even after Vedith has flipped town? I'm not following your thought process.

[wavemode]

Did nobody see jjh coast off lynchbait yesterday

Uh, you don't get to vote Vedith and then blame jjh for it. All of you on the wagon are under my suspicion - the sheep more so than the shepherd.

[wavemode]

Hey I'm glad we lynched. Though I would have greatly preferred Sesq.

But your statement was shitty. Seven people coasted off lynchbait yesterday, including you. You don't get to join a wagon then attack the leader of it for starting it.

[wavemode]

I'm absolutely disgusted at him as a player for his counterarguments and disregarding of points in favour of one that wasn't even a point. PLing for something that isn't a policy. He reported me for something I didn't do because it fit his whims. He was actually being towny towards the end of the day but I didn't want to believe he was town there because this genuinely lowers my opinion of him. I was very, very wrong.

I mean... I'm far more inclined to play with shitty town than whiny town who overreact to shitty town... maybe that's just me.

Personally I think your actions yesterday and general outlook on this game is rather scummy. You tried to get up support for a bombcat lynch, disregarding everyone else's actions and thoughts in the process, then magically turned around and townread him and went on Vedith. The only counterpoint in my head is that it's rare for scum to stick their neck out so much and so early. But overall I would not be opposed to a jjh lynch today, if we can't get up support for a better wagon.

[wavemode]

I think he's saying that his coasting off lynchbait comment referred to jjh starting both the bomb and vedith wagons, not just vedith. Which is fair enough, I suppose.

[wavemode]

To be fair, if someone calls you out as scum, you don't NK them, you NK their allies.

[wavemode]

Titus we know you're scum. You don't have to keep up the facade.

[wavemode]

Oh right I haven't posted a list today. Alrighty:

wavemode
raya
transcend
bomb
jjh
flubber
sesq
titus
gamenburger

Not much has changed, I suppose.

[wavemode]

Towny on top, scummy on bottom. If that wasn't clear.

[wavemode]

Hm, forgot you because I have no worthwhile read on you or fitz. You're just town-by-default at this point because I have scumreads. Should have just put you in the middle.

[wavemode]

Bottom line is that too many suspicious things are stacked up with Game for him to be town in my mind unless I see him claim or flip. I've talked about him

at length

, methinks. You can look through my ISO, CTRL-F "game".

That said, in recent review of the game I think there's even more I can add. Posts like #799, #804, #876 make me feel like game just wants to not really contribute much besides obvious observations and repetition of things he's already said, but still seem like town by acting annoyed with people and the way the game is going ("Transcend really needs to catch up and drop the whole doggo in a headlight schtick", "Bombcat it's close to the end of the day please play the game I swear"... these remind me of his Most Pointless Post of the Game Award-winning #491.) It's a classic scum strategy to act annoyed at the town for playing badly rather than actively trying to solve the game.

Oh and when he's talking about sunchild "Its been a week since their last post, Have they been prodded???" "WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY why cant the people i town read just continuing acting like town and not doing scummy shit like this" uhh, what? it automatically reverses game's townread for someone to have not posted anything substantive for a while? then why is game not scumreading half the people in this game? for that matter why is he not scumreading himself? and also, why is he suddenly so angry about that anyway?

If I seem nitpicky or paranoid here, do keep in mind what I said previously, about Game's very curious and aggressive #323. My point is that we don't see that kind of incisiveness or aggression from game anywhere else but there. Everything else is game narration and passive annoyance at people, without ever really looking to question people's reasoning or attempt to solve the game. Weird sudden change in playstyle, I think.

In addition, #806 gives me a gut feeling that game and Sesq are partners here and Sesq does not like the look of buddying. Keep in mind here that sesq was lurking for TWO DAYS, then game posted "Sesq is more town in this game than the last game I played with her... That being said now would be an excellent time to come back and play the game near deadline at the very least" and then just 30 minutes later Sesq suddenly showed up and posted #806. Yeeeaaaahhh.... fuck that shit.

Game said Connor was his top townread then Connor died. Game gains towncred?

puts on tinfoil hat

It also helps that I disagree with almost all of game's reads and logic, so even if I'm just looking purely logically and statistically at person-to-person interactions in a situation where 3/10 of you are scum, I consider him pretty likely to be scum. sorry buddy

After writing this up I feel even better about a game lynch.

[wavemode]

Is that a euphemism for you and raya getting it on?

[wavemode]

Wave,

Egg is scum reading Bombcat just like Titus. Surely that is notable

Yeah, Egg's strange reads are the main reason I have him as null. I townread his actions otherwise, though. I think he could just be wrong.

[wavemode]

I've talked at length already about game and bomb.

Just be content knowing I think you're probably town.

[wavemode]

you fucking hammered him and you're trying to get town cred for saying he was town while you did it, why is no one lynching you

You think a no-lynch would have been better for the town?

[wavemode]

Flubber thank you for quoting where I also stated I did not want us to no-lynch.

Not sure why you seem to think I decided to pick a fight with you simply about your vote. I don't give two shits. What I had a problem with was your statement. I stand by what I said before, that I think it's far more likely for the scum to be hiding in the middle of the wagon, rather than being the ones who started it.

[wavemode]

There's a difference between going back and reading what you've said (or even just trying to remember it) and actually talking it out. I'm trying to engage you because I town read you and we disagree strongly but haven't had a discussion about it. Can you remind me of your major points against game or why you think town would do what bombcat did regarding jjh?

Er I just wrote a whole wall on game a few pages back. Mantichora didn't have a lot of content, just seemed like low-hanging fruit for being lurky. As for bomb I actually don't blame you for scumreading him, I just don't personally when I look at the grander scheme of things, rather than just focusing on one thing he did. And I have some gut feelings about some other things that aren't really meaningful right now but w/e

I think you're fixating too much on this. Sorry if I come across as exasperated with you or something but I feel like at this point we just need to compromise where we can and get some information from flips. I've already argued and argued about these things and your reads are what they are and that's totally fine by me. But yeah, If I'm making a straight up list from top to bottom, you're in the middle, sorry about that.

[wavemode]

Did you miss the part where Transcend thought SunChild was scummy? How is his Titus vote now opportunistic? Like, explain what is so bad about him scumreading Titus/Sun?

[wavemode]

I think it's funny that everyone not in the townbloc is salty about the townbloc

[wavemode]

Who said it was an accusation

[wavemode]

It's me. I'm the name. I'm confbiased.

I'm not ashamed of it.

[wavemode]

why should we consider you town

[wavemode]

describe to me this amazing play

I've seen nothing of the sort

[wavemode]

Who are your open reads and opinions telling you is scum now

[wavemode]

Ok thank you. After this lynch if you flip town we will take it under consideration

[wavemode]

I don't recall saying I considered fitz conftown. Or transcend for that matter. Or anyone for that matter?

[wavemode]

Or maybe I think Sesq is scum?

[wavemode]

I'm having trouble parsing that sentence.

[wavemode]

What does that mean

[wavemode]

The constant splits happen when you have a game full of people who all think they're fucking sherlock holmes

[wavemode]

I'm one of those people, by the way

[wavemode]

I think you missed the joke.

To answer your question, my top townread is me. I think the reason is obvious.

If you mean besides that, I'd say REFER TO MY ISO.

See, I told you I would start doing that

[wavemode]

Get a room you two

[wavemode]

I don't mind a game wagon either but I don't think we have the votes

[wavemode]

Daily reminder

This game's going nowhere

More sesq votes plz and ty

[wavemode]

That's three for Titus. Do we have any more?

[wavemode]

im mason w connor his dying wish was to lynch sesq can we fulfill it lol

Well there you go, the mason team has spoken.

More Sesq votes plz

[wavemode]

Well this is a deadlocked game with a bunch of people unwilling to budge. If people have to compromise on a vote, let it at least be aligned with the (as yet, barring some counterclaim) conftown.

[wavemode]

What game was that

And what were these shitty reasons? I think I have pretty concrete reasons tbqh

[wavemode]

#615

#619

#734

734 should be of particular interest to you since it sounds like you've come around to agreeing that the sunchild slot is scum

[wavemode]

All of that's well and good but I'm trying to specifically assess whether our actual reasons here are invalid. jjh says the reasons are BS so I'm looking for evidence of that because while I think they've been pretty concrete, I don't want to lynch someone for things that are just their play style. So if jjh is not just blowing smoke and can address the points I made above then I would reconsider. But simply pointing out differences or similarities in play is completely NAI so it doesn't change my mind at all.

[wavemode]

Not want to be a tattletale but that is three prods for Raya. The town could use a more active player at this point.

[wavemode]

Hm, now I'm actually curious of your logic. What is the scum strategy for wanting a replacement for a lurker? I didn't think there was one but maybe I'm wrong.

[wavemode]

Sparkles you're too benevolent

[wavemode]

Oh okay lol next time I will say we the town

[wavemode]

jjh I thought you had some sesq arguments for us. Explain why the points I mentioned are NAI for sesq, and why you are not voting for her

[wavemode]

VOTE: Transgend

MOD???

[wavemode]

As punishment I propose bombcat be forced to swtich his vote to sesq so we can actually end this day

[wavemode]

Not want to be a tattletale but that is three prods for Raya. The town could use a more active player at this point.

why are they town tho

thats the real question

fuck it

VOTE: wavemode

coming from someone who happens to play with transcend a lot this is almost convincing

How are we not insta-lynching this holy shit

[wavemode]

Oh you should have just said it was diffusion of power I read that game while it was in progress.

I remember reading that and trying to figure out who was scum. I pegged Sesq as likely town specifically for actively participating and trying to lead the scumhunting. Even if I thought meta-differences/similarities in play were AI, that game would not logically change my opinion on Sesq, it would only reinforce it.

[wavemode]

Egg is a mislynch

[wavemode]

Because Titus is on it

[wavemode]

DuckWorth you're town, correct?

[wavemode]

You would really do that? Just go and lie on the internet?

[wavemode]

That's the thing, I don't know if we have the votes. And we're running out of time here. But it's worth a shot

VOTE: Titus

[wavemode]

Sure, go ahead.

[wavemode]

Egg explain your townread on the SunChild slot; if you have done so before I forget

[wavemode]

Well he didn't seem particularly interested in the idea that he simply chose a bad game to analyze, and was cherry-picking interactions. That looks less to me like a genuine investigation and more like a witch trial. He was just arriving at conclusions he'd already conceived.

[wavemode]

If Sesq and Titus are agreeing on an egg lynch that is confirming him as town fmpov

[wavemode]

If game, sesq, and titus are all pointing to egg as scum, that is hella confirming him as town fmpov.

[wavemode]

If you don't understand my statement then you don't understand statistics.

[wavemode]

I never said you three were definitely the scumteam, not sure why you jumped to that conclusion and went defensive about it.

But if you think in terms of probabilities then egg is probably town here; even if one of those three people I mentioned is town, or 2/3 - in terms of probabilities I think egg is town and is not scum being bussed.

[wavemode]

You're hilariously missing the point.

Also, what is scummy about my post?

[wavemode]

Explain to me my flawed grasp of statistics, Mr. Professor.

[wavemode]

It's fine if you didn't understand the math behind what I was trying to say, you could just say that. I'm just wondering why that automatically means what I said was flawed, and that now I'm scummy for it.

[wavemode]

It's as I said, those three are a big bunch of scummy scumfucks atm. No it is not impossible that there is bussing going on but STATISTICALLY, it is MUCH MORE LIKELY that there is simply scummery going on there to push against a town slot, and that town slot is egg.

[wavemode]

No it does not imply that.

Yes I'm comparing to that.

[wavemode]

VOTE: GameNBurger

[wavemode]

Duckworth had both egg and jjh in their scum list

Connor had you in his scum list.

[wavemode]

How am I caught scum? I mean, explain that sentiment to me cause its confusing.

[wavemode]

That's the thing, I don't know if we have the votes. And we're running out of time here. But it's worth a shot

VOTE: Titus

This vote is horrible.

What specifically makes it worse than all the other votes?

[wavemode]

@mathblade

How am I caught scum? I mean, explain that sentiment to me cause its confusing.

That's the thing, I don't know if we have the votes. And we're running out of time here. But it's worth a shot

VOTE: Titus

This vote is horrible.

What specifically makes it worse than all the other votes?

[wavemode]

Did you read the game? Or what are you trying to pull with this

A) So town don't defend themselves when people make statements about them. Nice I'll use that tell from now on, sounds foolproof.
B) You didn't read any of my numerous arguments and wallposts about my scumreads?
C) You didn't read when I was the top wagon for pushing my scumreads?
D) You don't understand that it's better to compromise on a vote that will go through than tunnel stubbornly and no-lynch?

[wavemode]

You're missing the point so blatantly that I'm astonished.

I'm not saying those things make me town.

I'm saying YOU are saying the opposite things about me and calling me scum for it. Like you said my posts are too agreeable and that is scummy, and that I'm not scumhunting, but I've spent many long posts scumhunting this game, and my posts definitely haven't been agreeable this game, but then you just go "well that doesn't mean you're town" like, what? Grab hold of logic for a moment brother, you're giving me a migraine.

[wavemode]

If you want to gut tunnel me because you feel desperate in this game I don't blame you but stop pretending like your case actually makes any logical sense.

[wavemode]

I don't think the Warbler cracked under pressure. I think he was just arrogant. Your meme case is also weak.

wavemode
bombcat
Egg
havingfitz
jjh
MathBlade
Flubber
Sesq
GameNBurger

[wavemode]

Oh and FYI see havingfitz scum game Jailkeeper tried to say the same bullshit about he was Town because of his wall posts.

Okay I'm not really going to continue this conversation when your head is stuck in the sand, it's pointless.

I'm voting Game or Sesq today.