Open 697: Tit for Tat GAME OVER SCUM WINS!

[kunkstar7]

Skipping RVS, straight to serious mode.

Vote: Raya36

. It's just glaringly obvious at this point.

[kunkstar7]

VOTE: Srceenplay
Everyone in this slot oozes scum.

While this is well-intentioned, we have a 100% lynch in Raya so you should move your vote over. We can use his flip to confirm scr as scum.

[kunkstar7]

VOTE: Srceenplay
Everyone in this slot oozes scum.

While this is well-intentioned, we have a 100% lynch in Raya so you should move your vote over. We can use his flip to confirm scr as scum.

What do you mean

I mean that you should be voting for Raya. Right now.

[kunkstar7]

Alright, besides the fact that apparently one word posts are a thing, lets see what we can do.

@wavemode: Want to elaborate on that vote a bit...at all even? Just voting with no context doesn't provide anything to convince anyone else, so I don't know how the hell you expect to get someone lynched if you honestly believe in your vote.

I think Raya handled the random stuff in good faith, not being fazed at all (despite the debacle of "is it pressure or is it not" that went on). Disregarding me completely seems pretty town to me, the disregard comes off as a townie who doesn't care about personal survival and rather finding the content that should be discussed instead.

Tywin is another thing, if he noticed that the idea was to run up pressure then why call out kop on it rather than help out? Seems disingenuous to me. I don't think there's any wrong intent in kop there since he obviously mistook my post initially, so very misplaced vote there by Tywin.

Vote: Tywin

for the insincerity.

Everyone else so far pretty much has said nothing of substance, so no reads there.

[kunkstar7]

VOTE: wavemode

This is a crap post and you should feel bad for making it. Literally zero context. We already went over this. To top it off, it tells me nothing about your alignment because it's just as likely it's lazy town. Try again.

29 just seemed very forced and reachy to me

Ok, so same feeling I had on this, reasonable enough.

Guyy's awkward posturing through rvs should be self evident

How was guyy's posturing awkward? Considering his ISO is just an RVS vote and the subsequent unvote+agreeing with me, lets just narrow it down to his last post. Do you have an issue with guyy's Post #58, and if so what's the issue?

I'll sheep. I don't get what the slip is but what ever.

I can't tell what the slip is either, so that should use some explanation, but the blind sheep is bad. Same as sesq though, seems to be null identifier because its also just bad town play as well.
@CommKnight: Please point out the slip from guyy and what it means?

Changing my vote from RVS to serious until he shows some initiative to scumhunting rather than posting mindlessly.

This is too easy of a place to put a vote, just feels like a place for scum to park their vote without really making waves. I don't like this move.

I need at least 3 daykills at this point god.

Can by lynched:

guyy
assemblerotws
sesq
srceenplay
TywinL
wavemode
Flubbernugget
SmoothBlue

Null (pending responses):

CommKnight

Probably town:

Raya36
kop

[kunkstar7]

>getting triggered at a votepost

ohhhhh deeeeaaaaar

You realize what game you are playing right? "triggered" doesn't excuse anything. Try again.

[kunkstar7]

This guyy wagon has built up far too quickly for my liking. It almost town confirms him to me in the manner how quickly it's getting to L-2.

I don't think it reflects on guyy too much since it's such an easy place to put a vote, but I agree that it likely has scum on it. I'm liking the srceenplay wagon more given the following:

That said, if guyy is scum, I like Srceenplay for partner after 72

So basically I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Sounds to me like I'm the safe vote.

This right here is another scummy response, no effort to scumhunt, just a pure emotional reaction to vote on himself.

Vote: srceenplay.

[kunkstar7]

It was a reaction test,

UNVOTE: Back after work. I'm glad he racked up votes early though, it'll make my job hunting scum all that much easier.

I really don't buy into this "reaction test" because your original post actually reads as a reply to Flubbernugget's #69. Now I even more so want to see what you get out your "reaction test" and your analysis of the wagon building, otherwise you're just saying things. You say your job scumhunting got easier, well let's see some scumhunting then.

[kunkstar7]

There's no need for setup talk today. There is no gain for any role to discuss anything, furthermore there's nothing to discuss. Let the roles do what they need to do, this setup has been played enough times for a power role to go and look for examples of how to play their role, we don't need to tell them anything. Anyone wasting time on setup on D1 is just wasting words when they could focus on actual scumhunting.

Comm, I still see absolutely NO explanation for your slip "test". The deduction that there is at least one scum who avoided both wagons holds no water because there is no way to prove it. It's not even something you could consider as good scumplay, the idea of one person avoiding all wagons.

All in all, I think you're just covering for the heat you pulled when called out on the slip.

Probably scum:

srceenplay
CommKnight

Null/Scum-leaning (willing to lynch any of these as they are actively detrimental to town):

sesq
Assemblerotws
guyy

Null (not acting poorly):

Smoothblue
TywinL
wavemode

Probably town:

Raya36 (pretty good contributions)
kop (need a bit more here, but kinda gut)
Flubbernugget (I like #136 and #137)

[kunkstar7]

You know what? I think I want a Commknight lynch over a srceenplay one. I'm analysing Mulch's reads (later on in this post) and his points on srceenplay made me relook at srceenplay.

I maintain my position that the blind sheep is a null identifier. #101 is still too emotional of a reaction and he doesn't provide any counter points, so just looks like deflection.

Plus I don't like it when there a people who are not voting. I would hate to be one of them.

Why srceenplay is concerned with appearances (specifically the location of the vote) is not really a town position, but meta could prove me misled here. I will say that so far srceenplay has been consistent with his vote, as from the vote in #138 onward in his iso has specifically focused on that vote, even if he is following up quite weakly, its still

something

I guess.

I'm a gut read player.
I reread and gave my gut reads. I'm horrible at giving reasons for them. Something I'm try to work on.

This bothers me because it's consistent with his play so far, and coupled with the above point about his vote makes sense. I just wish we could get more out of him rather than "gut" because without that "more" its hard to pin someone down on a read and hold them to consistency.

---

My Commknight read hinges wholely on his followup to being pressed on the "slip" comment. (which I think I figured out, #35 shows he meant that he thought guyy's confusion was a slip. If that was it why the hell do you not just own it??) Commknight backpedals into "reaction" territory, claiming to have information based on the reaction, but we get nothing. Skips straight to trying to discuss setup, which is - guess this - not player related, so continuing the dodge here. Then the awful wagon analysis where he sets up a 50/50,

but then proceeds to not even commit to it himself.

---

nobody is saying it's the ONLY thing we can talk about. so i don't understand trying to shut down that line of thinking

I think I've just seen enough games with PRs to come to the personal conclusion that Day 1 setup talk never pans out. People are going to do what they want based on their personal reads for N1. After N1 we actually have something to go off of. This is my PERSONAL experience, not a hill I'm going to die on, since I can see your side of the argument, even if I think it has a bit of holes on that side.

what ultimately pushes him closer into town territory for me is how much everyone else rejects what he says

So this post's wording threw me for a bit, but I get what you intended now so I'm gonna focus on this last bit that bugs me. If everyone else rejects then wouldn't it follow that its a town consensus that what he is saying is improper? It doesn't make sense to have a town read if the consensus of what he is saying is inherently scummy.

---

Mulch's reads:
Sesq: Don't understand this one, doesn't clarify my own opinion on sesq either.
srceenplay: see first part of post.
wavemode: Confusing wording, but what I get out of this is that Mulch agrees with #55 from wavemode. This means he find Tywin reachy, which is consistent with his Tywin read, so fine.
Flubbernugget: I agree with the general read Mulch got here, and flubber hasn't given much else.
kop: Seems a bit weird to me that Mulch calls out kop on the wagon analysis, but no mention at all in the Commknight read.
Tywin: Consistent with mentions throughout the other reads, ok.
Smoothblue: This is the most interesting read I think from Mulch. Pointing out something that's gone under the radar a bit. Smoothblue's #159 is weird because he points out two players doing things that can be from either point of view, but only gives the pass to Commknight.

Overall seems pretty consistent across everyone, and his nulls match up pretty well with my own reads.

@Mulch:

In what way do you think that Commknight's analysis is different from kop's? Also if you could clarify your read on sesq that'd be great. I think I'm getting into a place with sesq that I've done before, where a detrimental playstyle is distracting my abiltiy to read someone.

Unvote; Vote: Commknight.

[kunkstar7]

Maybe I'm missing something obvious but I don't see any analysis from Commknight?

Phone posting: I meant Comm's analysis where he came up with the 50/50.

[kunkstar7]

see him as an angry man who has a set way of doing things and is mad other people arent doing things the set way

Close enough, meta I last played in would not have tolerated your play in the slightest.

[kunkstar7]

The thing is, this is NAI. Both town and scum want to deflect their lynches. A common misconception is that town don't give a fuck about themselves, which is not true. Plus, this isn't really emoitional.

Don't really want to argue mafia theory here, so we'll just disagree on whether it's AI or not. I gave my read on the situation (I think the level of emotion is fine considering the state of the game, being only D1 and a few pages in) and since I'm no longer on the srceenplay wagon I'm leaving it there.

Sesq has been doing a lot of stuff that isn't really AI at all and is more playstyle indicative. His short, non explanatory posts can easily come from both allignments. But when I was following the game and saw his post in 107 it was sort of a lightbulb moment where he had the exact same reaction from me and in a weird way I could follow his reasoning. It was your worst post of the game by far beacuse it felt super opportunistic and obvious, and not very well thought out (just like all the others that pushed on him). This (as a side point) is a sharp contrast to your usually very detailed and well analyzed reads.

This whole paragraph helps me out quite a bit. I took a look at your explanation here and I can see the how it...lines up?...even if it's posted in a detached way. This doesn't help me read sesq's alighment currently, but I can get a better handle on how to.

you could afford to be a bit more tolerant

To go along with the comment above two things:
1)I don't need to be more tolerant. If I think that you are playing detrimentally to town then I'm going to continue working on you. Town shouldn't let stuff like that slide.
2)Despite that, it's obviously a playstyle difference, so it doesn't help anyone to go back and forth on it. You'll just accept that you're going to be on my "willing to lynch" list for playing detrimentally (imo) till I get a proper read on you. I'm going to try to make this the last this comes up from my end and focus on the actual reading.

---

I'm having a hard time this game trying to figure out exactly what to do with Screen's comment. I feel like there is a chance he's just a wolf, but tbh I do think it's best to consider it NAI and the fact that so many people pushed on it is so alarming. For everyone voting him: Do you follow their reasoning? Yes, I can follow it, and I think town and scum can easily jump on it as well. But...it's also just something that's so blatantly on the surface scummy that it's pathetically easy for scum to push it, which is why I'm wary of scum pushing on it for an easy push in lieu of actually scumhunting and finding true allignment indicative things.

Ok, wait. So there's a little bit of ambiguity here on what you mean by screen's comment, but assuming the "sheep" one is the most contentious and the one that started the wagon, that's the one I'm going with. If we take a look at the highest level of the screen wagon (VC in #126, we have 5 people on that wagon: Mulch, Tywin, Raya, Kop, and myself. Of these people both Mulch and myself have declared the comment NAI and don't use it as a basis for the vote.
Kop clearly uses it as his basis here:

You voted for someone on the basis of not knowing what the slip was in the first place. I can't think of how you could even justify you jumping onto the wagon that was forming other than getting on a easy safe wagon. All you've done is replace one safe wagon with yourself.

Kop also has not rescinded this fact nor discussed anything further actually.
Raya clearly uses it as his basis in #86. No change of opinion here either, no further discussion.
Tywin clearly uses it as a basis in #73 and doubles down on it in #180.
Commknight, Flubbernugget, sesq, Smoothblue, wavemode don't discuss it.
Guyy also maintains its NAI.

Tywin seems to hashing out his opinion on the ordeal currently, so I'll let Mulch continue that string.

@Raya and @Kop:

Besides the blind sheep on the guyy wagon is there any other reason why you are voting srceenplay?

---

I couldn't figure out why Mulch was weirding me out a bit but I found it finally:

139 just shows pure openness and a severe lack of caring how they are perceived (this is a good thing) with calling out a scumteam that early.

Mulch

clearly

says here the he thinks the severe lack of caring how they are perceived is a good thing and uses it in srceenplay's defense.
Yet we take the same exact idea and apply it to my claim that srceenplay is being overly emotional and caring about their perception and we get this:

The thing is, this is NAI. Both town and scum want to deflect their lynches. A common misconception is that town don't give a fuck about themselves, which is not true. Plus, this isn't really emoitional.

Which is direct contradiction, stating "A common misconception is that town don't give a fuck about themselves".

There's just too many instances of giving everyone passes. Mulch isn't owning his reads.
In #176 We get instances of this in his read on srceenplay, Kop, and Raya. Even Mulch's own read on myself in #210 does it, stating that he "sort of scumreads me" but qualifies it with "village can obviously do it too". I'm really wary of Mulch right now because of this hesitance to go in on any his reads whole-heartedly. Too many places to let himself out if he's pressed on stances.

[kunkstar7]

This is a separate problem altogether and problem the only part of your suspicion on me that I don't get. I've been extremely thorough this game and put a shitton of effort into it, and I definitely don't think I've let anything by if I can help it. Point me to these, please.

That line is just a different way of saying what I go on about in the sentences that follow, the idea that you call a lot of things able to be done by both alignments, so you already have addressed it.

The response in #237 shows me you are just a better mafia player than me (regardless of alignment). I expect I'll be picking up some things from you this game. #239 is a playstyle argument and while it does explain the reason for my uneasiness, it doesn't match up with my own view on things I'm still going to feel wary, that's just how gut goes.

kunk would you switch your vote back to tywin

I'd be willing to go with a Tywin lynch, but a lot less comfortable with it than a Commknight one. I personally find your position on Tywin a bit flimsy, because it's predicated on a whole bunch of interactions (or lack thereof) that can't be proven in D1. Tywin does double down on the whole srceenplay sheep thing, which in a weird way gives his conviction in a srceenplay lynch a bit more weight because it's as if he actually believes in the lynch, but other than that I'm not particularly impressed by his place this game.

[kunkstar7]

Mulch's 208 about sesq makes zero sense. Referencing Sesq making detailed posts has less than zero basis in reality. However, the majority of his other posts are good enough that this doesn't bother me too much. This could be scum unable to articulate a read on their buddy, but I won't push on that without flips. @Kunkstar: you seem to be able to articulate meaning from 208. Can you explain how it makes sense to follow the reasoning of someone's "worst post in the game"? Have you ever seen Sesq with "extremely detailed play"?

You are totally misreading Mulch's #208 His discussion of sesq is entirely in the context of talking to me. So every "your" is a reference to kunkstar7. What Mulch said in 208 regarding sesq is that sesq has a weird detached form of expressing intent, and he understood it by the fact that Mulch felt that both Mulch and sesq had the same reaction to my post where I moved onto srceenplay, which showed Mulch sesq's underlying logic to sesq's posting pattern.

@Lang Buddha:

How do you feel about the claim from Kop and how do you think it reflects on wavemode considering the way wavemode ran him up hard?

(ps I was nice and deleted half this post that was just me being frustrated)

[kunkstar7]

Basically a prod dodge right now, lot's of IRL work at the moment. So much to say about how much I dislike Lang's entrance but it'll have to wait. Please let's just lynch Commknight's slot and call it a day.

[kunkstar7]

Let's lynch Tywin

Alright, as much as I really don't want to keep Lang around for another day Tywin seems to be the stronger wagon, it's too close to deadline to keep this split:

Vote: TywinL.

[kunkstar7]

Vote: Lang Buddha.

I still hold my position from Day One, Lang hasn't swayed me at all from the Comm slot.
Tywin's flip is great, going to have to reread pages 5-20 to see reactions to mentions of Tywin.
I don't think we are at a massclaim stage. Still too much variance to make it worth it, but Day 3 should be a good spot for it if we fail to lynch scum. (Just intuition, haven't mathed it out right now but I could if anyone cares.)

[kunkstar7]

l-1

Not having the votecount messes up numbering, but I think you're right: kop, ironstove, flubbernugget, myself

[kunkstar7]

Yeah your flavor posting or whatever tone you're trying to achieve really isn't entertaining, and it makes your posting hard to understand. Not trying to be rude, just honest.

^

[kunkstar7]

oh fuck i thought ironstove was wavemode replacement

kunk wtf are you doing voting with sesq flubber and kop

Remember sesq made no sense to me
And Flubbernugget doesn't seem scummy so far, is the justification there his wagon placement?

[kunkstar7]

I'm sticking on Lang until I get through my work today, then I'll see if kops worth moving to. I think guyy has a pretty good handle on the game right now.

[kunkstar7]

Ok here's why we are not massclaiming:
9 players. 3 town PRs. An optimal claim strategy here is for all scum to claim vanilla, thus making the lynch pool 6/9. Then scum knows exactly our PR players and gets free shots off. It's not worth losing power roles for 6/9 lynch pool. That's why we wait a day.

[kunkstar7]

not everyone has to claim

some of the more obvious town players (group A) can be exempt from this, as well as the players we're not really trying to focus on now but who still might be scum. right now that means guyy, mulch, srceenplay

this offers a large enough buffer i think (1/3 of the players) that scum still has to do a bit of guesswork. this is probably fine for two reasons:
1. we're a little overpowered here atm
2. it obfuscates exactly what information scum is getting and allows PRs to draw some conclusions that scum might not be able to just yet

the following players (group B) should, if claiming, only claim PR or not PR:
lang
kunk
not_mafia

Ok so I see what you are getting at but then we get the issue of who's worth not claiming, then we have to analyse who's saying who should not be claiming, it becomes a big convoluted mess of trying to figure out who benefits from someone not claiming, aka playing mafia. So just simplify it down to a normal mafia day because that's what its going to happen if we go that route. Lets have a normal day then we can massclaim when the numbers work out in town's favor solidly. Tbh having a mafia powerrole lynched D1 is pretty lucky, I'm not willing to give up any edge we have here on unnecessary risks. Any PR claiming whether they are a PR or not is drawing the N2 kill. Why should we be giving mafia PR kills for free when we are at the advantage? (Yes I know there's PR shenanigans that could happen, but I don't really have any way of solidly quantifying those chances in a way that's worth taking into consideration.)

[kunkstar7]

Vote: kop.

I'm in on Lang's plan I suppose. Note that with a mass claim we are guaranteed to lose a PR tonight since we have a JK rather than a doctor, there's no way to save here. Also Lang has pushed hard enough for this that it's unlikely he's scum. Its too easy to do the opposite of what he's done and seem town so him putting himself out there is probably good enough. I'm putting kop here to L-1 so he should begin the mass claim.

[kunkstar7]

unvote

[kunkstar7]

kop, it's a full claim we're doing according to Lang so

[kunkstar7]

Yes but jk can't save and let the vig shoot is what I meant so it doesn't count

[kunkstar7]

This means that the backup jk will do the nightkill, so if it goes through we know our jk's target wasn't the mafia PR

This doesn't make sense because the mafia jk doesn't exist yet, since we haven't lost the jk yet. So either can do the kill.

[kunkstar7]

Letting him say pr without everyone else popcorning defeats the purpose?
No one would know if there is a cc

That's what the Rolecop is for. Guyys plan misses the points of mass claim. We knew we would lose PRs if we did it. Guyy, why didn't you object to mass claim for real if this was how you were going to go about it? Did you just not think of the strategy you just came up with?
So I'm going to vote Flubbernugget to keep this game moving but how are we reacting to his claim then? If he claims PR are we just going to pull the same stunt or does that force a real mass claim?

[kunkstar7]

Kunkstar went from voting Tywin to very elegantly putting others way ahead in his to-lynch pile, eh

Because page 4 is where all the concrete reads are made right....
Flubbernugget pick the next to claim

[kunkstar7]

Check that again.

[kunkstar7]

Everyone has claimed apart from Kunkstar.

Lang hasn't claimed either. Not PR.

[kunkstar7]

Wow which fucking idiot power role didn’t claim

[kunkstar7]

does that mean it was you

Not me, I just agree that someone's being monumentally stupid here.

[kunkstar7]

Lang claimed vanilla

Apparently I can't read since I couldn't find it, Someone link it?

[kunkstar7]

Vote: Flubbernugget.

.
Apparently we just like to mess around and not even claim properly so fine. Like I don't even know what else to say at this point. Let's just get to a fresh day.

[kunkstar7]

Why Flubber? Why not screenplay?

Flubber is guyy's push and prior to the claiming stuff I felt like he had the best read on the game. Screenplay's outbursting here in the last two pages didn't really ring as scummy to me, and prior to that he was null to me as nothing he's said has been notable.

[kunkstar7]

I'm just pissed that we wasted this whole day on claiming and it didn't even go down properly, in a way that could have actually been useful for town. The way it did go down was way more helpful for scum than town. I should have stuck with my initial thoughts. Honestly it killed my interest in playing for now.

Also I would be pushing the hell out of a Lang wagon instead if there was time. Where are the long winded diatribes against everyone for ruining his master plan? The rest of the day he was going off about how the whole town was miserable for not listening, but nothing on what went down?

[kunkstar7]

What do the PRs think, hmm?

This is what the response is?? Guyy please tell me you see how shitty this is.

[kunkstar7]

Where are the long winded diatribes against everyone for ruining his master plan? The rest of the day he was going off about how the whole town was miserable for not listening, but nothing on what went down?

Why would any of this be constructive, eh?

No, you're right that it wouldn't be helpful in that form but it shows the difference from your preclaim posting. There's a clear disregard here for following through with the things you have been saying, and that's what I'm calling out here.

[kunkstar7]

So, kunk, what claim were you talking about here, man, hmm?

You clearly came into the game without reading anything, so I threw that out just to confirm, and your reaction confirmed it publicly.

[kunkstar7]

you got me good

[kunkstar7]

actually yeah whatever

srceenplay

not comfortable voting on a wagon supported by kunk and lang

let's get this day over with

You realize that I'm pretty much just sheeping your flubber vote right? So it makes no sense to be adverse to your own wagon. Your choice though.
In any case anyone not voting either srceenplay or Flubber is wasting their vote right now and should pick one or the other so we can hit this lynch.

[kunkstar7]

I have a really bad feeling that the last power role not claiming is going to bite us in the ass

No there is

absolutely nothing

bad that could come from that, none at all~

kunk, yeah, i get it. it's a little too sheepy

i already pointed out that i thought it might be an attempt to pocket me

Ok makes sense. I'm sticking here but I'll hammer srceenplay if that happens.

[kunkstar7]

if what happens?

He gets to L-1

[kunkstar7]

because i think scum having a 50/50 shot of failure is better reason to divert scum away from our two outed PRs than a third claim


mulch, if one of the other two pr claims were lying, which do you think is more likely?

No one's lying. There would have been counterclaims immediately and that would have been a 50/50 lynch which would have been fine.

[kunkstar7]

wavemode parked his vote on Tywin then popped back two times saying he's got shit to unload, man, but never did. Super scummy imo, and Not Mafia didn't help shit, but not sure if scummier than actually calling Tywin town.

i agree here

kunk- why are you okay hammering srceenplay? why can't you be the L-1 vote?

I think that you had a reason for being on Flubber initially, so I don't see why I should switch wagons "just because". Your switch from Flubber to srceenplay is (to me, since I know my own alignment) just you psyching yourself out. I'll continue to be a vote needed for the Flubber wagon until I see that the srceenplay lynch is the only one happening, aka it gets to L-1. With the only people left not one those wagons not being active at the moment, it undermines that to switch early.

[kunkstar7]

although what if they're both at L-1

Not really possible, anyone voting outside of these two is actively harming town - so any new vote is going to put a wagon at L-1 since they're both at 3 at the moment.

Flubbernugget

(3): Srceenplay, Kunkstar7, Lang Buddha

Srceenplay

(3): Mulch, Not_Mafia, guyy

Kop, Ironstove, and Flubbernugget missing.

[kunkstar7]

Ok here we go:
Kop and ironstove confirmed town.
Not_mafia, Lang, kunkstar7, srceenplay, Mulch is lynchpool.

Vote: Lang.

That atrocious postclaim stuff or actually lack thereof speaks tons. Also this beginning of day stuff by srceenplay makes me wary there but Lang's a bigger priority.

Here's the rough layout of how the game is playing out:
Worst case:
D3: 7 alive. Town lynch, town NK.
D4 : 5 alive. Lylo.
PRs do NOT full claim. With the JK still up we can force scum to have to guess targets. I don't know whether the JK should target the other PR since it shuts it down, so my initial inclination is to just let the JK decide their own target and don't have anymore discussion on it since it might give away their decision.

[kunkstar7]

Oh, caveat about PR stuff: if you got confirming information, then should be claimed. Otherwise no claim.

[kunkstar7]

So I'm just saying let's slow down and talk and think.

Just the whole pleading deal doesn't sit well with me. I don't think the way yesterday went down auto confirms you for a lynch today, and while I see what you are saying, especially with NMs vote, your start of day posting seems forced.

[kunkstar7]

Man I wish Lang would have spoilers all his posts it would have been so much easier to ignore him!

[kunkstar7]

@Mulch, srceenplay

: So obviously Lang is looking really scummy today and I want him to be the lynch today, I feel like his posting style makes it easy to pick him out. Do either of you have reads on Not_Mafia?

[kunkstar7]

Thanks for repeating what I said? Those are definitely things I said.

[kunkstar7]

How is that super scummy at all, he just decided to vote park his best mafia teammate for the entire game? Who does that? Lol

This is the reasoning from Mulch...pretty much the only thing not_mafia contributed besides the end of day stuff from D3.

[kunkstar7]

Also the focus on not_mafia doesn't really fit with your stances this game so far.

[kunkstar7]

Wait. Kop, we need a list of who you jailed each night. While it won't be definite confirmation of scum since there are two players we can maybe make this day's lynch simple. Whoever Kop jailed could NOT have made the kill. Therefore that player should not be today's lynch. For example using myself to demonstrate the logic:
Kop is confirmed town JK.
Kop jails Srceenplay.
I know I am town, therefore my lynchpool is Srceenplay, not_mafia, and Mulch.
Since Kop jailed Srceenplay confirmed scum has to be between not_mafia and Mulch.

[kunkstar7]

Not_mafia, you clearly are not paying attention to this game at all.

[kunkstar7]

BTW kunk the jailkeeper gives no clears because they could jail the mafia not doing the kill. So say screen and mafia were the mafia, if they jailed mafia last night it dosent clear him cause screen could have done it

That's why I said it wasn't a definite confirmation, addressed that in the post. I personally feel that having a 1/2 shot feels easier to decide than a 2/3. I know the math doesn't hold up for it being actually better (something about picking from 3 doors or whatever I know this is a thing somewhere) but just it makes me feel more confident in voting someone, it feels more like a 1/3 versus 1/2 situation because we only get the one shot at picking scum or we lose. Also, while not likely, there is a chance that Kop's jails could provide some points for further deduction, that's why I want all his actions.

[kunkstar7]

The 1/2 is simple:
Lynchpool is kunkstar7, Mulch, srceenplay, not_mafia.
Now for each of those players you -1 for yourself since you know you are town, bringing today's lynchpool to 3 people.
Then take into consideration that scum couldn't be jailed and also have successfully killed last night. Therefore whoever Kop jailed can't be the scum who performed the kill. That removes one player from the lynchpool for today, so it leaves only two players capable of doing the kill, which is the 1/2. This breaks down for the player who got jailkept obviously but for the other people it gives that scenario.

[kunkstar7]

It's not 1/2. Say you and mafia are scum. You were objectively more towny, so you would have done the kill. Do even if mafia was jailed 8 times,.could be 0/8.



Your assuming each of the scum will be doing the kill 50% of the time. When in practice it's impossible to quantify

No I'm saying literally just Night 3. This only fits for that specific night.
Say Kop jailed you Night 3.
If Kop jailed you Night 3, you could not have made the kill since ironstove died. Therefore in my (kunkstar7's) eyes - confirmed scum has to be between not_mafia and srceenplay since

someone

had to make the kill.

[kunkstar7]

What does that have to do with the jail lmfao. That should be irrelevant. 2/3 have to be scum from your Pov lool

How is it irrelevant, the jail blocks all actions so it should block the person from being able to kill, and therefore my statements follow? I understand 2/3 but I already explained that I feel 1/2 is easier to figure out than 2/3 - I'm just walking through how I got the 1/2 idea.

[kunkstar7]

I'm town. There is only one other town. If I pick any two people, there has to be at least one scum.

Ok I understand your point now. I overthought it but got to the same point. The JK just gives you the selection of the two players to pick from, doesn't really change anything besides that, makes sense. Now we just need Kop to get here so we can move this.

[kunkstar7]

Did you read my post?

Ok srceenplay - here's the thing, if you were not scum, which of myself and Mulch is Not_mafia's partner?

[kunkstar7]

I think you are the partner.
I'll get to your ISO in a bit.

Looking forward to this (not sarcastic, genuinely want to see your reads.)

[kunkstar7]

N1 Lang
N2 kunk
N3 not mafia

Alright with this, I'm on the srceenplay wagon for today. Since not_mafia didn't make the kill last night it leaves srceenplay and Mulch for my options, and that's an easy one. Srceenplay did pretty much exactly what I expected from the questioning about partners - he's going back and trying to paint things as scummy but they don't follow what his stances were. The framing of that iso reread is pretty disingenuous, deliberately missing context on some of those quotes to make it appear as if I was being contradictory.

Next course of action is deciding the jailkeep for tonight. I personally want to see a Mulch jailkeep. I felt strongly that guyy was town and was willing to sheep him on his reads, and up to this point I've had a similar read on Mulch, but I just don't want to be played by Mulch. Not_mafia and srceenplay are easy to see why they are scummy, so I want to just clear Mulch so I can with a clear conscience band with Mulch.
Note that scum has to kill Kop tonight or they straight up lose in the 3p situation due to a confirmed town.
Thoughts on this Kop? Any reason for your not_mafia JK last night?

[kunkstar7]

I'm voting srceenplay today. Right now all that I'm waiting on is for Kop to announce his target. I put forth my suggestion and reasoning for it, I don't have much else to add, I don't think there's anything that could really sway my position for today.

[kunkstar7]

@Kop: This is frustrating because you are the one confirmed town, but let's reason this out. To be fair you have a harder time because you have four options rather than three. Explain why you think your earlier scumread on him is incorrect?
Do you disagree with my read on srceenplay's play from today regarding his laying out of his potential scumread on myself and Mulch, that the way he presented those reads is indicative of scum who was forced to make up reads for a scenario he did not expect?

[kunkstar7]

Similar to what Mulch said earlier, let's wait for kop to have his say.

This sentence doesn't really make much sense since it's self-referential but I'll go with what I think you meant:
I've been pretty clear that the I'm not waiting on you to make a decision about who's scum and who's not (I mean the whole point right now is I'm actively trying to convince you of a specific lynch), I'm waiting for you to announce your target because that is absolutely vital to town bagging this game today. The fact that srceenplay had the guts to say that you should

not

announce your target

without

specifying a reason why is crazy.

Just view srceenplay's play change between D2 and D3. There is a very visible change on D3 where he goes into "panic" mode asking everyone to slow down and discuss, shopping around for everyone to discuss. That theme continues today with his incessant asking for more reads without posing any material to adjust current reads. Look at D3 srceenplay and tell me that doesn't look exactly like "

Or he could have easily allowed discussion to go on and not put out such cases

".

[kunkstar7]

Kop...why noooo targettttt just save me from this limbooooo

[kunkstar7]

I'm not too upset with Not_mafia voting since I wanted to just go ahead myself but I don't trust the rest of the players to not lynch without getting Kop's stuff. Interested if srceenplay has a response though.

[kunkstar7]

Ya can't say "Ok I'm done now" when you have even started to do something.

Kunk you saying your not upset with NM voting and you don't trust the rest of the players implies you Town read NM. So that leaves Mulch and me as scum from your perspective.
Is that correct?

I thought I answered this must have not posted. No, not_mafias vote doesn't mean anything because it could be scum bussing. It just isn't upsetting because it had to happen to move the game.

I still don't get how you can't see the benefit of Kop announcing. You're being willfully ignorant here is what I'm going with. Give me one good reason for him not announcing. Unless whatever reason you come up with has the ability to confirm someone as town or scum, it isn't good enough of a reason, telling you that up front.

[kunkstar7]

Why are we debating voting outside me and screenplay when one of us (him) is confscum

How is he confscum?

Screen and not mafia have to be confirmed scum to each other. Or else scum would hammer

The problem I found with this line of thinking is it's actually not the best play for scum to attempt a quickhammer here since we have a JK. We still have a chance if we mislynch versus normal endgame scenarios. So I think there is scum there but we can't say anyone is confirmed.

[kunkstar7]

Did I mess up on that? I think I did. If we mislynch we go to 4, but 2:2. The best we could get is a draw only if Kop eternally guessed right. So I'm wrong shit.
@Kop, I already said I am voting srceenplay today.

[kunkstar7]

I'm not scum. Probably played by Mulch ugh.

[kunkstar7]

Kop, I have some serious words when we finish this game. You could have made this day so much easier for us but no let's be stubborn...in any case I think this still shakes out pretty well. If srceenplay wasn't scum he would have been lynched yesterday for the scum win right? Especially with my saying I was going to vote srceenplay scum would have known that they would have their 3 votes. I'm going to vote srceenplay today, going to wait for at least a response from the other two first just to make sure I'm not reading this wrong.

[kunkstar7]

That doesn't dispute what I said. If you weren't scum notmafia is vote 1, scum 2 is vote 2 and I would be the vote 3, so they have their secured 3. There's no way that if Mulch was scum that he would have voted not mafia knowing he could have just as easily gone with srceenplay and gotten the win.

[kunkstar7]

Yea I'm pretty confident with my decision here. It would be a major disservice and underestimation of Mulch's play to think he couldn't read the way the game was going in that last day. It would take some crazy gambiting to explain his play as scum.

Vote:srceenplay.

[kunkstar7]

Which? I didn't vote you because I was very explicit about my Kop requirement.

[kunkstar7]

The fact that you can't pin either of us but there is plenty of reason why you are scum is pretty telling.

[kunkstar7]

What requirement?
He said who he was going to vote for so what was it you were waiting for?

This is purposefully ignorant. Reread my iso for the last day.

[kunkstar7]

I think it’s you.
You are basically saying that you were saving your vote for the hammer.

No reason to shade mulch at the end of the day. You are not even trying to explain it.

So how does that mesh with your beginning of day statement about Kops JK (the fact that we have this stupid vagueness is exactly why I demanded it)? You seemed pretty declarative in that post.

[kunkstar7]

I don't need to unvote. There's nothing to change the outcome of my vote so I don't need to delay. Delaying for the sake of delay isn't town in any practical sense.

[kunkstar7]

So you still won’t explain your end of the day statement?

I took NM's gg at face value, simple enough.

[kunkstar7]

I don’t believe that. I think it was for you to put doubt in kop head.
I also don’t see how you were insisting to vote me yesterday but never did.
Now today you do it haphazardly after saying it was mulch.

Funnily enough, that comment by me at the end of day is actually more likely to get me jailed because of that exact doubt.

[kunkstar7]

Wow, ok that was a game.