Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)
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Archwing Mafia Scum
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I legit lol'd at this.
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RVS is very questionable.In post 16, Dunnstral wrote:?
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Just to sort of piggy back this, I did a Mini Normal with Elsa, and this is pretty equivalent to their playstyle - They actually tried to create an entire pre-game narrative. It was rather entertaining. Too much roleplay though.In post 49, mozamis wrote:
UNVOTE:In post 32, Almost50 wrote:You're "strange" not scummy!
yeah it's probably a playstyle thing.-
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Where does your town read on Almost come from?
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Hey, phone posting at work atm, so I will provide more tomorrow when I can get to a computer - sorry for noy being active right now, I usually try to be involved more.
I'd probably wanna scum buddy up with Elsa, cause I like their play style and I think we could have some fun with it.. I haven't really played with much of this list, other than 1 game with Elsa and 1 with Moz.
I find the amount of meta reads going on in the first 5 pages crazy. Like I get that we don't have much to go on, but it seems like that is all everyone is doing. Expect more analysis from me in 24 hrs or so.
UNVOTE: my rvs vote.-
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In post 50, mozamis wrote:
almost looks same as was when he was town.In post 38, Almost50 wrote:
You can't possibly do all that simultaneously when you're only a Capricorn! Only a GEMINI can do that kind of multitasking with any efficiency!
so early provisional town read.Early town lean on Moz with this, and his style of posting.... wary to not let past meta influence me too much though. I don't like to rely on that.
pedit; Beef is at l-1... please no one hammer right now while I catch up!-
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wifooommmmm.In post 68, momo wrote:scum would NOT play this nonchalantly...i don't thinks so at least
I don't like momo up to here. Never played with them, and from people who have, they seem to be the "if I scumread them, they're town" kinda person, which makes me sad, but meh. I have a scumread on them nonetheless.-
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This post seemed pretty forced to me on my initial read, and even moreso now. Obviously this kind of a thing was needed, as the game felt like it was stalling a bit coming out of RVS, but I don't like how everyone on the read list is either town lean or null. No real scumspects on there? I'm a firm believer in the power of a town PoE pool, but I mean... no one is scummy?In post 80, Almost50 wrote:@Jay: Statistically speaking; the BEST way to avoid being lynched/NK'd in Mafia is to avoid PLAYING Mafia. NEVER has anyone NOT playing in a game been lynched/shot in said game.
Almost50 ---------- Town (if I didn't have my roe PM I wouldn't have been able to tell, tbh)
mozamis ---------- Town lean (Lots of content, but nothing superbly AI, and NOTHING SCUMMY so far)
Dunnstral --------- Null (Probably modding a game and doesn't have time for this game!)
Kotoko Utsugi ---- Null (I remember Dunn posted a question mark. I don't think this slot posted at all)
ShadeadMelee --- Null (see above)
Beefster ---------- Null (I remember the avatar more than anything they've posted)
JaydragonKing --- Town lean (Hard to be conclusive when I've never seen Scum!Jay, but I've seen Town!Jay before and it looks like this)
davesaz ---------- Town lean (Voice of reason. Always asks "strange" questions, but that's how he scum hunts)
momo ------------ Town lean (If this is also how he plays Scum he's bound to get caught sooner than later)
talon152 -------- Null (Not sure if they posted yet)
Raya36 ---------- Null (one day I'll be able to tell the difference between her Scum!lurking and her Town!lurking)
Assemblerotws - Null (Nice hat)
Archwing -------- Null (I know he's posting, but the only time he tried giving feedback it was "piggybacking" Jay's meta)
Suffice it to say we're into page 4 and all I have is a personal preference to the more active posters. THIS DOESN'T LOOK GOOD!
So, maybe it's time for some of my own crazy shit (this trademark is under the protection of the law. Do NOT redistribute without explicit authorization from the original shitter. This shit is hazardous, toxic, radiant and highly inflammable, and could cause serious damage to you leading to your lynch if used improperly.)
IF YOU WERE TO ROLL SCUM AND WAS GIVEN THE CHOICE TO PICK ONE PARTNER FROM THIS GAME PLAYER LIST, WHO WOULD THAT BE? EXPLAIN.-
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Elsa, mind explaining why? I don't see it. I see more forced activity from A50. It's easy as scum to hide in plain sight - avoiding activity lynches is one way to stay alive, and activity usually makes people TR you more, so as scum, it almost makes sense to be a little more active. I found A50's 85 to be kind of weird, with the whole "*sigh*" thing, as if we should all just sheep A50 and we are asinine in thinking otherwise. Momo is fully entitled to have their SR on Moz there, and snarky exasperation's like that have no place, IMO.In post 88, JaydragonKing wrote:Well, I'm town reading you for 85-87, if that makes you feel better.-
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just to officially respond to the question I asked you moz, I looked back and saw that after the fact. I think I glazed over that, and to be fair, i thought it was a bit of a weak reason to state townreading people, but it was a fair point that I never got back to you on.In post 102, mozamis wrote:Actually, i think this is my first really serious vote of the game
VOTE: archwing
looking at his ISO, he has posted enough to post content, and yet there is no real content.
the closest he gets to scum hunting is asking me a question which i have already given an answer to. (i had already said almost=meta read, and he asked me why i thought almost was scum) scum do sometimes miss things as they are skimming over stuff.
i think its time we got a proper wagon going.-
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so I don't know anything at all about Beef.... but this is so fucking scummy, like I don't really.... does Scum!Beef really go down this road?In post 179, Beefster wrote:
I don't follow this line of reasoning. The scumteams already have a pretty low chance of killing the other scum if done completely randomly. I don't really see how a short day makes things any different.In post 134, Mathdino wrote:Honestly I'd be pretty cool with speedlynching in this setup. I have a strong suspicion that the longer the day goes on, the more scumsided it'll eventually get. Masons and monks are gonna get pretty obvious over time. Plus, ideal strategy is for mafia and wolves to shoot town (and not destroy each other). I'd rather not give them more time to figure out the entire setup.
So yeah let's speedlynch Beefster.
The way to win is to get 4 correct lynches in a row. Short days do not help achieve that.
VOTE: Mathdino
OMGUS, but I don't care.-
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Finished skimming. Here is where I lie...
I think Moz is prob town. I think Dino is town, but I wanna metadive them first before I stick to that claim.
Dave gives me weird vibes. Kinda same thing as A50. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them flipped scum. I gotta go back and look at their interactions.
Elsa is null to me. Momo is a scum lean, like i stated earlier, but apparently that's town!momo.. i dunno.
I forgot that Dunn was a player until I looked at the player list. That goes for Talon, Raya, and Assemble.
VOTE: Assemblerotws I want more from him. Also, I think beef wagon is shit. I don't think Dino is scum because of it, but I am fos'ing others on that wagon.-
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Great misrep! Did you also notice the part where I said Beef's wagon was shit, and I don't actually think he's scum?In post 235, Almost50 wrote:Archwing: God! Beef is so scummy I can't even. Let me vote Assemble.-
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Yeah this pinged me. That was a pretty bad unvote IMO, or at least, a bad reason for it.In post 245, Almost50 wrote:And how does me accusing you of being Scum with Ray make you feel uneasy about your vote on Beef?????
Yes, I did. My intent there was not to make you look bad, although if that was a side effect, then that's wonderful. You are not my target right now.Almost50 wrote:I did. Now did you notice where I said YOU were scumy but I don't think you're Scum? (That would've been a better response if you really wanted to make me look bad)-
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Why do you keep OMGUSing?In post 260, JaydragonKing wrote:You have no idea what I'll do under different circumstances, Momo. You saw War-time Jay. This is Peace-time Jay and Elsa.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Momo
we were all having a peaceful time as well...-
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The thing about Elsa, is that they say whatever I am thinking as I sight-read the new posts; It just so happens that Elsa appears to live within Mafiascum, and beats me to the punch. Lol @ moz phone posting accusation, lol.In post 275, JaydragonKing wrote:... I don't know whether to be impressed by your boldness or to wonder how the heck you got to your conclusion, but I'm just going to ask you two questions, Moz.
What was with that quote that served no purpose? And are you on a mobile device typing this up?
Spoiler: Response to Momo-
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Man, you make it really hard to advocate against your wagon. Pretty sure this is one of the worst posts in this thread. Momo is 100% not today's lynch. A50 explained the alleged misrep on me. What you've described is literally how Jay plays. It's like you didn't really read.In post 289, Beefster wrote:I am thinking more clearly now. probably.
VOTE: momo
I think he's playing dumb on #100 and #127. wtf on #270. demands jay put their vote on me on #276
That's all for now.
fos: A50 for misrepresenting Archwing.
fos: JaydragonKing for being self-conscious about perceived alignment and voting/omgusing everybody like a force of chaos.-
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Why?In post 418, Dunnstral wrote:Yeah, but I just wasn't here, we're better off looking at the people who were voting assemble yesterday-
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Well A50 (now conf VT) was on it, Momo, and Moz, who started it. It was the first real wagon of the game, so I think it was a great transition to get us out of RVS. I'm still a little sus on Momo, even though he seems to be conf town to everyone else (first game with them.) Moz I'm fine with leaving for today.In post 424, Mathdino wrote:Any thoughts on your initial wagon, Archwing?-
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Moz's hyper posting is annoying af, but, it's what he does.. I definitely need to re-read read him since I think i gave him a free town pass for it in d1. Still not too much to read off of Raya yet, and Momo hasn't been around this day phase to read off of anything yet. Re-reading these guys are going to be my next task.-
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I'm keen on Dunn and Assemble because those are the two who I know the least about in this game. Yeah, I haven't been that active, and I take full accountability for it.
I know Assemble is a lurker, and that just makes my (our) job harder in reading him. So yeah, that is where I want my vote to be right now.
As per my TvT comment.. Not really sure the confusion, but lemme explain. I've had difficulties looking at interactions like that in the past. I've been wrong plenty of times. I forget which game I played, but it was recently, and I saw a VERY similar interaction happen, and I was vocal about thinking it was TvS. And I was rather confident in that... someone had responded to me about how TvS is usually the hardest interaction to find, and that usually a gut read TvS interaction is actually TvT. That is how I ended up with that.-
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I do think that the wagon has scum on it, but I think it's mafia-driven and Beef's partner isn't on there, unless there was bussing, causing the self-hammer(as others have pointed out).
I think (at least) one in {dino, momo, moz, raya} is mafia, then. I feel alright with Moz for now, until I re-read. I'm sus on Dino... I feel like he's been too strong this game, like.. He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.
FoS Mathdino
I still don't really like momo's slot, personally. I'd have to meta dive to really understand, but I gotta re-read stuff in here first. Raya has seemed pretty good to me in d2.
The next thing I wanna look at is the night kills... especially the talon kill-
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Right. And I do believe there is an expectation on others to step up and match your level (myself included), but I also think you have a very powerful influence and are using that to your advantage, hence my FoSIn post 529, Mathdino wrote:
Yo I would honestly prefer people not do thisIn post 528, Archwing wrote:He's sort of taken charge and people are following blindly without questioning him.
I did this d1 because I was pretty damn sure I was right
It's hard to recreate magic and I'm concerned people are waiting for me to do something
Jay following me is within his meta but everyone else needs to step up-
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In post 89, Beefster wrote:
This and #84 look a little bit off to me. I don't really follow the logic.In post 83, momo wrote:Right now..if I were to choose a scum team from this list, I would proably take a50 and dave...they are both active, townread...trying to game solve (which could be faked within their playstyle), would have no prob bussing me (an expendable scum member) to stay strong...and are currently pretty widely townread.
For those asking about how I play scum... (WARNING: SELF_META....I AM TRYING YO BE HONEST) I haven't had a recent scum game..However as town, I am known for posting without thinking...I know that once, I have voted the previous days lynch (I corrected it in the next post but still)....As thoughts come, they get written down.
For scum, I haven't played in a while, but when I came back to this site, I bought a whiteboard to draft out ideas as scum....my posts will probably be more thought out.
I do this because I think it is the most valuable way to post for the different factions...For town, my posts may seem scummy, I may defend someone very hard, but it will always be because I believe it and I think that is what town needs.
As scum, I will put more thought because I need to hide, and that's just the way it will be.
Meta defense (when there's nothing to defend) is strange. It's almost like he's trying to WIFOM with the gambler's fallacy.
VOTE: momo
Serious vote.
momo is not WW.In post 289, Beefster wrote:I am thinking more clearly now. probably.
VOTE: momo
I think he's playing dumb on #100 and #127. wtf on #270. demands jay put their vote on me on #276
That's all for now.
fos: A50 for misrepresenting Archwing.
fos: JaydragonKing for being self-conscious about perceived alignment and voting/omgusing everybody like a force of chaos.-
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In post 532, JaydragonKing wrote:Why would you not use and advantage you have over others?In post 529, Mathdino wrote:
It's hard to recreate magic and I'm concerned people are waiting for me to do something-
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Yeah, in a way. Like, you know how this entire game, people have been saying "momo is acting pretty scummy. he's obvtown" kind of like that.In post 536, Raya36 wrote:Wait, so you're saying you're reading them as TvS therefore they are TvT? Am I reading this wrong?
I'm townreading you because you have good reads, you're being analytical and laying everything out. sue me.
I'm townreading moz, half on meta and half on content (again related to yours) just like how he is laying everything out there.
I'm susing the most dominant personality in the game right now because no one else seems to think that he skated entirely through d1 and is on a trajectory to do it again through d2, without any suspicion. Like yes, is Dino town? there is a good chance. however I think it's pretty bad play to just let someone slide through like that... if you leave them to late game, without any pressure, you're gonna have a hard time finding a scumtell on d4 while you've been riding their coat tails for the last 3 days.-
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does Mafia!dino think WW!Beef flips scum? it's possible. I don't see why town!dino analyzes that differently than maf!dino. the thing about multiball is that everyone needs to scum hunt, so I think there is genuine intentions for everyone.In post 539, Mathdino wrote:Hey Archwing do you think hypothetical scum me knew or even expected beefster to flip scum
Trying to get an impression of your view on that scenario-
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I'll move my vote if I have reason to.In post 545, Dunnstral wrote:
So this isn't a real push then, and you plan to move your vote later? Good to knowIn post 513, Archwing wrote:the start of day 2 with Dino and Koto... that was TvT. I really did not like d1 Dave, and d2 Dave is just as bad. Dunn is pretty well non-existent, as is Assemble... I wanna push one of these two before we start running people up.
VOTE: Dunn-
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Hence why I started sus'ing him early day 2...In post 652, davesaz wrote:Nobody is conf, not even Mathdino. I have lost lylos in the past to people who are too town to be scum.-
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Justification for not being kotos partner but not beef? Assemble hasn't been active AT ALL. Id really like to know where you found that association..In post 718, Mathdino wrote:Assemble is certainly not partners with kotoko
If he's a monk he's cleared imo-
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okay I'm gonna spit some thoughts out as they come... sorry if this comes off as spammy.
But as of last votecount, Dunn was put to L-2, and now we see the most activity out of Dunn we've seen all game. Can't really say I like that.
Dino has hardclaimed VT multiple times, soft claimed VT, and now maybe soft claiming mason.
I believe Jay is town. Not too much more to say on this slot at this point.
Dave is lurky... again, only really showed up today. I actually don't recall anything from dave in D2.
Assemble.... is assemble. Lurky as always.
But I dislike how Dunn has just "showed up" out of nowhere today and created an entire wall of "content". It just seems like forced activity to me-
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In the scenario of the Koto lynch, I was never on that wagon all day. Obviously hindsight 20/20, I should've trusted more into what you guys were saying. But I did not believe that Koto was scum that day. I was trying to push on people I couldn't get a read on... then the Koto wagon happened really fast, and they started lurking hard. That was a pretty big scum tell to me, as pushed-town in that situation would want to spew out as much info as possible before they die, so I declared intent at that point. I was offline at work for the following ~12 hours where koto self voted and Dino hammered. It's not that I was never going on that wagon, it was just not the time for me to vote them at early D2. I also wasn't going to lolhammer either.
pedit; what i'm saying is that he lurked for days 1 and 2, and now in day 3 he just kinda showed up, after being put to l-2-
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as for the beef wagon, I already said how I thought it was shit during the wagon and as the lynch happened. I did not want to be a part of it. It flashed too quickly IMO, and I was not getting scum tells
(re-occuring theme... my reads are shit)
I was voting assemble not because it was a counter wagon but because it was who I was pushing. that's all I've done this game is try to push people to get information so I can try to get a non-shit read for once
pedit: dino i'll get to that. I've got a little block of time to put out what I've been thinking about today.-
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I'm still concerned about Dino's slot... someone echo'd today what I had said in day 2.... very powerful presence and I feel like a lot of people are taking the back seat (minus Jay) to what Dino is doing in this game. Raya, Dave, Dunn, hell I am even guilty of it this game myself. I haven't been as involved as I wanted to be. I really worry that Dino maybe gambited a early bus day 1 on Beef and coasted off that ever since. I can't shake that thought. I don't really know who else I ping as wolf right now-
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Yeah I get how this comes across. Like obviously this is scummy as fuck. I did what I could in the time frame that I had accessible to me. But right now Dino I feel like you're starting to dip into a bit of WIFOM here to try to paint a mafia picture of me. The thing is we can all say what we wanna say and try to phrase things super carefully, but it all comes down to intentions at the end of the day. and I really feel like scum!you is trying to push a mislynch on me right now.In post 786, Mathdino wrote:Your narrative is:
- I thought Koto was scum and wanted to lynch lurkers
- Koto started lurking so I realised they were scum
- I declared intent but you guys lynched before I could hammer
But the scum narrative is:
- You wanted to appear to be doing useful things and hope Kotoko resolves the wagon on her
- Koto started lurking and you realised nothing was gonna save her
- You declared intent but we lynched before you could hammer
VOTE: MathDino-
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quickly pursing through Koto's ISO, I suspect that Assemble may be the partner. They could have set up a plan n0 (numberQ did confirm scum was able to talk before game start) where Assemble does usual Assemble shit and lurks a fuck ton, and Koto pushes assemble hard to try and get a wagon, full on knowing everyone on MS knows his meta and as a result, that wagon never happens? I didn't get too many tells from their ISO other than that possibility.
WOLF: {Dino, maybe Jay (look at sheep's iso along with NKA here please}
MAFIA: {Assemble}
If I'm wrong on either slot there, I think Dunn might be the solution.-
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G'morning. I'm a VT. I'm not a mason or a monk. Listen, if you guys go down this path then fine, but please please please look at Dino / Dunn / Assemble. I think you will find your scum in there. I won't be on again for another 5 hours or so, so if I come back dead, then read what I was saying. Look at sheep and moz's night kill.-
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Yeah I agree with what was said here. Dino, I think you're either wolf or VT. I don't know if that makes you a mason or not, but that's where I stand.In post 808, Mathdino wrote:MEMO TO ALL:
If Archwing really is a VT, that means one of the Monks MUST be mafia. (or one of the masons is a werewolf)
If the monks have been doing their job and trying to read each other, you need to speak up now if you think your partner is actually Kotos scumbuddy. Similar for the masons if you think your partner is Beefs buddy.
If no one speaks up, I'll take that as indication that you all believe either I'm the real VT or Archwing is the real VT. In that case, this becomes a 1v1.
Dunn commented that I put too much emphasis into pre-game planning... I call BS on that. However minimal the planning was, I've always preplanned a game as scum when I had the chance to talk n0.
Dino... thoughts on a mass claim at this point? Knowing that the majority of the players in the game are either a mason or a monk, is it potentially beneficial to look in there? I do agree that partners should start explaining their reads-
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Right.In post 810, Mathdino wrote:How did I pre-plan the game when I wasn't even here to do so?
My point still stands as a generalization. But, right.
Answer to my other questions?-
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Hmm side note... I dunno if it's worth any thought, but N1 Talon was killed and N2 Sheep was killed. Talon literally had 0 content or value in the game, and Sheep was kinda trailing off at the end of d2, and even stated explicitly that they were 'not gonna catch up any time soon' (too lazy to quote right now - writing a paper) but someone in d2 had commented that the Talon kill had to be made by someone who was happy with the game state. NK-ing sheep may have been from a similar stand point?-
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Do you feel like Dave has a distinct increase in activity/maybe content from d1, d2 into d3?In post 825, JaydragonKing wrote:... it feels like Dunn is the new Dave and Dave is the new Dunn. Where the heck is he? And Raya too for that matter?
I know Dave posted a little while ago but now it doesn't feel as relevant or stand-offish? It's weird. I want to see where he's putting his vote next.-
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Dunn*In post 826, Archwing wrote:
Do you feel like Dave has a distinct increase in activity/maybe content from d1, d2 into d3?In post 825, JaydragonKing wrote:... it feels like Dunn is the new Dave and Dave is the new Dunn. Where the heck is he? And Raya too for that matter?
I know Dave posted a little while ago but now it doesn't feel as relevant or stand-offish? It's weird. I want to see where he's putting his vote next.-
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Well yeah, assemble usually is a controversial slot based on his gameplay, so either we wait for replacement as dino said, or we wait for prod response.In post 833, JaydragonKing wrote:
Usually I'd say that would be your attempt to stall the Lynch, but that's an excellent point. Going into the night phase with someone like Assemble this late in the game is damning to town.In post 831, Archwing wrote:Dont you think we should wait for assemble to respond to the prod?-
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listen I guarantee that it's not the right call. If I'm going to actually help with anything this game, let it be todays lynch.
VOTE: Assemblerotws
We've had a perfect game this far, in terms of lynches. All of scums night kills have missed masons/monks (intentionally [ie partners] or not, I am not sure) and we're still in mylo.-
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