♥ ♠ Open 711: Stack The Deck - Game Over ♣ ♦

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

on a serious note, i read the first few pages of this game but i'm catching up in full now.

[northsidegal]

huh, didn't realize it was still day one

[northsidegal]

i'm at page four and i already think espeonage is obvscum for 86 to 88.

[northsidegal]

oh yeah, this is what i remember from my first time following along with the game – i had a solid townread at around page 7 on mutant for his a50 interaction, because it seems like a carbon copy of my own interaction with a50 the first time i played with him. like, the contexts are very similar and i think he even said something almost exactly similar to what i've said before.

[northsidegal]

the questions in 165 are very superficial (no offense).

[northsidegal]

literally forgot creature was in the game until 200.

[northsidegal]

Is this question serious?

Yes, because I saw an IC claim.

It would've been good if it was serious, because I would know it was fake.

would've been nice if creature was still in the game, because i'd like to ask him about this – there's no way he should know it's fake. i've read back a few pages and know that elsa has already claimed roleblocker, but that still doesn't give any information that would indicate that an ic claim is fake.

[northsidegal]

unabombah is town and i think the wagon on him is pretty bad (page 10).

[northsidegal]

His BG-explanation didn't convince me, but since everyone else left the wagon, me hanging on makes no sense and helps no one.

To summarize: you accuse A50 of crumbing traitor and vote him, and a few people hop on and/or agree with you. After much discussion, the wagon fizzles out and you unvote because 'at least it got people talking'. I ask you about that and vote you, and you vote the worst, who's sheeping me.

Can you clarify this for me?

How does unvoting the guy who you think is crumbing traitor 'helpful'

given that you didn't even follow your unvote with a vote on someone else? Like you're basically saying that you thought it was more beneficial to town to unvote the guy you think is crumbing traitor and leave your vote on no one than to keep your vote on the guy you think is crumbing traitor.

it still doesn't mean he didn't. But. Assume he IS the traitor, the scum might still shoot him now, or at least they SHOULD, so that should resolve itself.

Right, that's my point.

It's likely self-resolving, so voting him today is kinda silly imo

, and I don't really understand why you did it in the first place.

skitter, am i misunderstanding something here to say that you're criticizing una for unvoting while also saying that it would be silly to keep his vote there?

[northsidegal]

i know, but the wording of "i would know it was fake" seems to imply something more than the obvious of "ics are revealed at gamestart and this one wasn't so thus i know it's a lie". if that

was

was he meant then that's such a banal observation coming from creature that i'd still imagine it makes him more likely scum.

[northsidegal]

NSG's entrance was towny, love her so far.

<3 you too unah!

finishing my catchup now, hopefully i should be able to actually be useful soon.

[northsidegal]

espeonage's vote on jay in 439 is really weird. comes kind of out of nowhere and right at the point when screen is at l-1 and jay's wagon was just building up. the "policy for survivor play" justification also doesn't make a lot of sense to me – i didn't see that anywhere in jay's posts.

[northsidegal]

hmm, still not fully caught up but i'm pretty sure i'm not okay with a one page quickwagon / lynch on mutant.

[northsidegal]

i sincerely doubt that creature just "forgot about" this game.

[northsidegal]

the way lego talked about / dealt with jay seems like scum talking about scum to me, and that's independent of my reads on either of them.

[northsidegal]

@mutant, what's your read on jay, independent of the claim?

[northsidegal]

espeonage's vote on jay in 439 is really weird. comes kind of out of nowhere and right at the point when screen is at l-1 and jay's wagon was just building up. the "policy for survivor play" justification also doesn't make a lot of sense to me – i didn't see that anywhere in jay's posts.

That is mainly in reference to my fundamental attitude of "live as long as I can". It screwed up Normal 1969 when I could have helped, so it's a stain on my image for him. I just have to correct that stance in this and future encounters.

i know, i've played with you before and i read that game as it was going on (i missed the chance to replace in by a few minutes – i like to think things would've gone a bit differently if i had made it in). what i'm saying is that i don't think any of that survivor mentality was really visibile in your play since replacing in when espeonage made his vote, outside of natural town not wanting their own lynch. what do you think?

[northsidegal]

i'm pretty much caught up now, and i have too many scumreads i think.

[northsidegal]

{Mutant, Not_mafia} – Solid townreads, unlikely to doubt these anytime soon.
{Skitter, Screenplay, Una}– I have reasons to townread these people but the reasons not might be the best.
{Sky_paladin, Montosh, A50} – Null.
{The worst, Espeonage, Lego} – I have reasons to scumread these people but the reasons might not be the best / might be conditional on other reads.
{Elsa} – My best bet for scum / preferred lynch.

[northsidegal]

by the way, i'm skeptical towards the idea that the pr claims will "resolve themselves". town roleblocker is a pretty weak role and one that i could definitely see scum leaving alive. in fact, picture the game state going into the night from the perspective of scum – there are two pr claims that you can shoot, both of whom people have heavily scumread and both of whom people are relying on getting shot by scum to sort, both of whom don't pose a lot of threat to you. why shoot either of them?

[northsidegal]

yeah.

[northsidegal]

i don't take that into account in the slightest when giving my reads.

[northsidegal]

hmm, i can see what you're saying, but doesn't the possibility still exist that, say, there are only two real town prs, and scum fakeclaim a third one? in that situation i see no way to sort town from scum going on the plan you described.

[northsidegal]

right, but jay likely would have been dead anyways if he claimed vt – i remember having this same conversation when discussing why a claimed doctor was still alive in lylo in one of my games (although i was scum there).

let me ask you this – you were scumreading jay before the claim, yes?

[northsidegal]

{Skitter, Screenplay, Una}
{Montosh, A50}
{The worst, Espeonage, Lego, Sky_paladin}
{Elsa}

[northsidegal]

eh, really it's just been the thing that more people have asked about, so that's what i've been talking about. if you'd like to discuss something else, here's a "hot take" – the worst is scum who's been coasting along, giving a lot of commentary on other people but without ever really getting into a conversation himself or pushing anything himself. really – read though his iso and take a look at how much of it is giving thoughts on other people or updates on his thoughts, and how little of it is actually pushing a point. reading through it also instinctually felt different to the one newbie game i saw him in, where he was town.

[northsidegal]

let me ask you this – you were scumreading jay before the claim, yes?

Yes, I had scum read Jay for their previous slot - Creature. I hadn't really seen anything from Jay to improve their position, and the 1 v 1 against Screen seemed unneeded and strange. Nothing from Jay really strikes me as town, and their performance since being out of the lynch's way seems disinterested and vague. The claim is the only reason I don't have them in my scum pile, and if anything were to come up to question that claim, I'd be happy to vote there again later.

so if you had him as scum before and you recognize the possibility that he's fakeclaiming

and

the plan that you described to figure out if people are fakeclaiming wouldn't work if he was fakeclaiming...

then why am i the only one bringing this up?


also, why'd you bring jay to l-1 over screen in 663 even though you said that screen was your preferred lynch to jay?

[northsidegal]

Screen was my preferred lynch but both Screen and Jay (along with NM and your predecessor) were in my 'probably scum' pool. I thought at the time Screen's behavior was more scum AI than Jay but I still saw Jay as scummy and would not have been upset with a lynch at that time.

right, so what made you choose jay over screen?

[northsidegal]

@NSG: You don't lynch a claimed TPR on D1 without a CC. OK? You let them live for at least one night and see how the lynch of D1+night action resolve.

P-edit: Damn! SP said it better.

sure, whatever. i'm pretty sure all that's going to end up happening is that neither one of you will die this night and then come tomorrow we'll either end up lynching jay anyways or we'll put it off again the exact same way we're doing today. i think jay has the highest "scum equity" out of everyone and a lot of my other reads are set to either change a lot or be set in stone depending on how jay flips, so given that i don't think things aren't as self resolving as everyone says, i'd still like to lynch there.

[northsidegal]

if you're not lynched today and you're town then it's a good thing that i've casted so much doubt on your claim – you don't get shot and like you said, you get more time to actually use your role.

[northsidegal]

i never said that we should lynch you tomorrow or that i'm doing this specifically to protect you. what i said is that saying that "it'll sort itself come tomorrow" isn't actually anything sorting itself, it's just metaphorically kicking the can down the road, and that

if

you are town, it is a good thing that i'm doing this, not that i am doing this because i think you are town.

[northsidegal]

@NSG: The thing is you are neglecting the possibility of there being other TPRs (I'm not going to argue anymore about the probabilities).

If a Goon Cop is in play and they catch a Goon.. and/or if a Vigilante exists (and we are sure to know if there's one w/i the need for them to claim), and/or if there's a Tracker with a result...

Now imagine (just for my sake, OK? Just a hypothetical assumption) that ALL 3 ARE in play. Now how likely would you say Jay managed to fake the one and only possible PR claim that would not be CC'd? Remember that Scum know "how many" but not what the roles are, and the IC has already been eliminated, so if they knew there to be 5 then they knew they could not have fake claimed any, and if they knew there to be 4 then it was a 25% shot (I had claimed before Jay did). Even if they knew there to be 3 TPRs then that was a 50-50 chance. Now if they knew there to be only 2 and I already claimed one hen it was a 75% chance (which I agree is acceptable), but with me still thinking Scum would chose abilities I'm leaning against that last one.

If jay is scum, why does he care about how likely it is that his fakeclaim succeeds if he thinks he's going to be hammered if he claims vt? You're making the point that jay as scum wouldn't fakeclaim because A) scum chose powers and thus town have more power roles and B) because A is true, scum would know that they'd be counterclaimed, and thus jay is not scum. What I'm saying is that if jay is scum, he's going to claim in that situation no matter how unlikely it is, because there are only benefits to claiming a pr and only downsides to claiming vt.

I don't disagree with you that Jay looks rather scummy. We're still not lynching a claimed PR day1.

The 'resolve itself' thing applies more to A50 because his role, played right, should lead to him dying. It doesn't apply quite as much to Jay, but we're not lynching him today regardless.

so what new information do you think will help resolve the jay slot? please help me understand this, because from my perspective this is just kicking the can down the road on someone who i scumread.

I think that if Jay flips town rb at any point this post/push is quite bad tbh.

@nsg: given that we're not lynching the claimed rb today, who do you want to lynch?

why's that? why do i make this point clear as scum when i could just silently do the scum strategy that i suggested and leave jay alive? why do i draw massive amounts of attention to myself through this?

i could do any of the second lowest tier of my readslist.

[northsidegal]

NSG

right, so what made you choose jay over screen?

I didn't - I chose Screen, who was at L-1 for quite some time, and then voted Not Mafia because I felt that player slot needed (and still needs) pressure. When I came back, the Screen wagon had fallen apart and Jay was at L-2. I felt that Jay was behaving very strangely for a player who had gone from just about to secure their preferred lynch to being the main lynch candidate, and that was in line with me scum reading the slot from earlier. So I voted and pushed for a claim and, well, here we are now.

I don't think the screen wagon had fallen apart at all – from my count, both screen and jay were at l-2, and you chose to put jay at l-1 and get a claim out of him instead of voting screen. To me, the fact that you did this instead of voting who your stated preferred lynch was seems like you were fishing for claims, hence voting the person who hadn't claimed over the one who had.

to your second question – i'm not claiming anything and i'm pretty sure that i don't need to.

[northsidegal]

To clarify on that last part – I've thought this through and I'm pretty sure that me not claiming anything is strategically a very good choice.

[northsidegal]

As scum, if you're planning on dealing with Jay by leaving him alive, you kinda need to build up that paranoia so as to make him mislynchable. In a vacuum (ie without this discussion), I don't think he's getting lynched soonish on claims, and by pushing this line of reasoning, Jay's slot has become controversial enough that he can be left alive and has probably become mislynchable, maybe even for today.

sure, i'll agree that it could be a viable scum strategy, although even if you can't trust me i can tell you that i would have played it differently as scum.

if you're interested in talking about something else, what are your thoughts on my sky paladin and the worst points? (this goes out to anyone else, as well)

[northsidegal]

If anyone was pr hunting, it was sky.

can we not lynch mutant, or can someone explain the wagon on him?

more detailed response(s) soon.

[northsidegal]

Agreed (no offense).

[northsidegal]

i think not mafia is obvtown this game, having played with him quite a few times at this point (although granted, my history with reading him isn't the best)

[northsidegal]

may i propose the espeonage wagon for everyone's consideration?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: espeonage

[northsidegal]

may i propose the espeonage wagon for everyone's consideration?

I wouldn't hate the idea, what prompts this proposition?

it's kind of more of a gut-based read which i don't often push, although i can type up a more specific case on his weird vote progression / voting patterns when i get a bit more time. if it means anything to anyone i have experience with espeonage as scum where he was caught day one (although to be fair, that was only one game).

[northsidegal]

Skitter/NSG;

I am undecided on Mutant. My preferred lynch was Screen, then Not Mafia, then Jay. Jay has claimed so he is not on my list for today and there doesn't appear to be any real interest in a Screen lynch.

I think there is a good argument that Mutant is scum. I could lynch that slot even though I am not specifically scum reading him. Some of his posts/votes are troubling and I don't think he is a shining example of town.

But out of my choices, since Jay and Screen are currently pencilled out, I'm now interested in NM, specifically as he is happy to make empty content posts, and supposedly unrelated people jump in to defend him. I'm deeply bothered by players who think that NM's conduct is desirable to have in the game because scum gain advantage from this style of play.

Let's be clear, I am not demanding a policy lynch of NM. But since there is some interest going his way, I would love for more votes to go to his wagon so we can see if he does anything interesting with a fire up his ass that IS alignment indicative.

Until now, nobody seemed to care. Now people care, but the ones who spoke up are in his defense and that is, as I mentioned to Worst a moment ago, quite anti-town.

What gives?

what's anti-town about defending someone i townread?

Actually;

Skitter/NSG/A50

Let's say we're at LYLO and the only players left are NM, Sky, and (insert your name).

Sky and NM are countervoting.

Who do you vote and why?

you, but i already scumread you, so you could replace nm's name with most other people's name.

Why did you ask this question?

[northsidegal]

@Worst
Two pages ago you said you had alarm bells when I answered a question directed at Lego.

Do you not see why I might be concerned when players don't care about Not Mafia at all until there's votes on the wagon, and that is only to defend NM instead of letting him post for himself?

I mean, I had him in my solid townreads part of my readslist, so if i'm understanding what you're implying, it doesn't really hold up. People started mentioning nm as a lynch, so obviously people started talking about him. So what?

Ok, I'll look at Esp
Paladin, you still around, was that post earlier your thoughts on Esp?


Pedit, Paladin, that's a great argument to lynch NM, and I like it. I think those who can be active here at least for an hour or two should vote to put on the pressure, even if you don't want to lynch right now.

Pedot 3.. 4... 5... 6.... NSG what do you have on Esp and day 1 scum behaviour?

Pedit 7, yes, yes.

Are you telling me to vote someone I townread for "pressure" while deadline is rapidly approaching?

[northsidegal]

Who are your scum partners?
In this ""hypothetical scenario""

Let's say that NM or myself are the non-recruited traitor, so we don't know who our mafia buddies were, and vice versa.

That's not how traitors work. Right?

[northsidegal]

How about

you

help me pressure espeonage?

[Alright, here's the deal (heh). At this table, we play Stack the Deck. 13 seats: 10 belong to

townies

, 2 belong to

mafia goons

, and 1 belongs to a

mafia traitor

(who knows the identity of both mafia).

Who are your scum partners?
In this ""hypothetical scenario""

Let's say that NM or myself are the non-recruited traitor, so we don't know who our mafia buddies were, and vice versa.

SP groupscum or town confirmed

I don't buy it.

[northsidegal]

may i propose the espeonage wagon for everyone's consideration?

I can probably go there, but I would still rather mutant tbh.

Do you think mutant reacts to you the way he did as scum?

[northsidegal]

NSG do you think it was a fake slip?

VOTE: Espeonage
Back to sheeping, my one true calling

I have no reason to look at it one way or the other, but I don't think it's outside of sky's scumrange to fake that, so i'd just take it within the context of my preexisting read. Maybe that makes me confbiased, not sure.

Is Espeonage active?

Sorry Jay I missed it. We had over 100 posts in 30 minutes

Post no, or do I have to go hunting?

Post # for what?

[northsidegal]

I think you would give us the most information jay, but that's not happening I suppose. Thoughts on espeonage?

[northsidegal]

I need a second to respond to the scumclaim that 1093 really looks like.

[northsidegal]

To some degree Worst as well, but;

NSG

what's anti-town about defending someone i townread?

It's anti-town because if NM flips green down the track, you will get town cred, but you might actually be scum.

That's not anti-town. How is "you will get town cred but you might actually be scum" anti-town? Should i not try to solve the game and scumhunt because it'll get me towncred, but i could still be scum? This is patently ridiculous.

It's anti-town because if NM flips red down the track, players who defended him will become suspicious, even if they are actually town.
It's anti-town because if you flip red down the track, NM will be suspicious because scum defended him.
It's anti-town because if you flip green down the track, players will be less inclined to think NM is scum because why would they kill somebody who is town reading their slots.

These are all situations for if people get lynched or shot, so let me counter with why defending people you townread is

pro

-town: you move the lynch away from town and hopefully toward scum. Like, that's it.

Defending other players is not scummy behavior, but it IS anti-town. Players should be able to defend themselves and be accountable for their posts.

If they can't, then maybe it's because they're scum.

I don't disagree that people should be able to defend themselves, but i also think that you might be misrepping me here, or if not misrepping, we're at least speaking in terms that implies things that aren't necessarily true. To say that i've "defended" not_mafia is an overstatement – i've made my townread on him clear, and from that townread i made the logical conclusion that i think a lynch on him would be a good idea.

I've never excused his playstyle or done anything of that sort – i've said that i townread him. So where is this "defending" coming from?

That all said, I do agree that policy lynching a slot on day 1 is a good option if we haven't got a better scum read, but the scum read should be the first option.

Why did you ask this question?

I want to highlight why allowing an alleged non-alignment indicative lurker to coast through to endgame is bad for town.
In what world would you want that in LYLO over me?

What do you mean when you say "alleged non-alignment indicative"? Because if you're saying that not_mafia is impossible to read, i'd disagree.

Scumworld imo.

@Worst

Oh, colour me surprised. In every game I've played, traitor never knew who the goons were. I thought the recruit mechanic in this game was to allow the goons/mafia to know each other.
Remember, I replaced in to this game and since I am town, did not read the mafia roles as closely as you appeared to have :V

inline respones.

I mean

LOOK AT ALL THIS ACTIVITY

FROM TWO VOTES ON NOT MAFIA

ARE YOU NOT CONCERNED?!

I checked the thread and saw something to comment on, and from there the conversation flowed. let me ask you this – if you think i'm scum who's been lurking until now just to defend my buddy, why have none of the wagons that have been on l-1 for many of the past days ever gone through to completion? If not mafia is scum, he's a known quickhammerer as either alignment (and yet he hasn't this game), and if i was scum with him, why haven't i come up with some reason to intent someone yet, unless you're calling the scumteam right now?

[northsidegal]

i mean, is anyone else looking at 1093 and seeing the same thing that i am?

I think you would give us the most information jay, but that's not happening I suppose. Thoughts on espeonage?

Your calling me Jay instead of Elsa, North. You haven't done that before.

VOTE: North

Scum!North confirmed.

[northsidegal]

Think everything he did so far is scum driven. Show me one townie sign in his ISO. Anything at all?

remember our first game together, where we got into that big argument? i think you should go back and read that and then read this and see how they compare:

Spoiler:

I'm assuming the first part of this is a cheap shot at the amount of time I've been on this site? I've actually been playing mafia for 6-7 months now but my months before joining this site was spent on a site that only ever has 72 hours days and isn't taken too seriously which results in half the town lurking and only 3 pages worth of posts per game day. I'm still in adjustment from the culture there to here. I also do not believe registration time means much. You can nail it on your first game (my most sucessful game was actually my first ever one on that other site) and even the strongest of veterans can fail hard at times. Despite your impressive stats, you are not exempt from this. You've lost games in the past and you can certainly lose games and make mistakes again. So yes, there is every chance town me could catch scum you. I wouldn't exactly call this my catch though if you are scum. I didn't see the potential of your post being a traitor soft claim until it was pointed out and I believed your BG claim until someone pointed out the crumb could have been planted as a backup. Had neither of those things happened scum you would have fooled me easily. You also forget that I almost caught you last game. Had anyone but N_M made it to that 2v1 I would have been able to at least get a word in about why I thought you were the SK (even if some of the logic was wrong). We won't ever know if I'd be able to convince the other person of your guilt but the point is that I was thinking along the right lines. Of course, just because I was right then it doesn't mean I am right now. But it certainly refutes the idea that I am not good enough to see through you. As far as I am concerned with our last game, you did deserve the victory as you would have won anyway had there been no mod error and your kill on Fitz went through.

My advice is this: IF you're Town, back off NOW (and save yourself the embarrassment). If you're Scum though, I'm not about to tell you how to improve your Scum play.

You have no right to give me any advice on how to play until you have flipped or the game has ended. Until then, your words have no meaning. Sure if your town your words have meaning but for all I know you are scum trying to manipulate me. This is, after all, a game of manipulation. There will be no embarrasment if I am wrong. Everyone is wrong at times in this game. I've been wrong before. I'll be wrong again. And if I am wrong now, then I appologise. But until you give me reason to believe I am wrong, I am not going to assume I am wrong. I'd appreciate it if, instead of insulting my play, you focused more on refuting my points and showing me how I am wrong rather than telling me I am wrong. Because that way, I am prepared to listen.

[northsidegal]

still here, espeonage?

[northsidegal]

Hi unah!

NSG's entrance was towny, love her so far.

mutantdevle seems to be getting tangled up in his own defenses, so I'm going back there.
VOTE: mutantdevle

I'm most intrigued by Esp. hinting he has scum nailed in his mind, and then he voted for Sky_Paladin->A50.
I'm assuming this means they were his reads, but I'm a bit confused by him not naming them straight away.

To comment on those reads however: I CAN see both of those slots as scum, but I'm currently more interested in cornering mutantdevle.
We have seen the most significant content provided around Srceenplays wagon, and now I want to see who oppose/agree to mutant being the lynch.

What were the results of you seeing who opposed/agreed with the mutant wagon?

What's your opinion on sky_paladin after the last few pages?

[northsidegal]

I mean, I feel bad about that but I don't think it changes his alignment.

In my defense he was here yesterday and didn't seem to say anything.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: Northsidegal

Please explain this sudden desire to get off the Mutant wagon and attempt to flashwagon.

This also goes for TheWorst.

I'm not really interested in Montosh/Not Mafia at this stage.

Uh, because i townread mutant and scumread espeon? You're acting like mutant flipped scum and i was pushing his counterwagon. Also, i don't think i ever wanted a flashwagon specifically, it's just that there wasn't much time left and espeon wasn't around.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: espeonage

[northsidegal]

Elsa, who'd you roleblock?

[northsidegal]

I don't really see a reason not to.

[northsidegal]

pretty sure that doesn't make sense. a town pr would have no reason to out themselves out of the blue, especially if they were roleblocked (and thus had no results to share).

it's just a waiting game really with you, elsa.

[northsidegal]

i think elsa is waiting for her scumbuddies to post in daychat and tell her who to fakeclaim a roleblock on.

please prove me wrong by claiming your target right now.

[northsidegal]

hm, that's interesting. will wait to see what una has to say about that.

why'd you choose him?

[northsidegal]

hey, it worked for you!

[northsidegal]

well i haven't been around for a whole year yet, but i think it's pretty fun, so i might keep doing it.

[northsidegal]

are you claiming vig?

[northsidegal]

And at this rate the mafia will be claiming VT regardless.

Rly now, please explain?

Do you honestly think scum are going to claim Tracker/goon cop/Vig at this point?

hey, it worked for you!

[northsidegal]

what's the relevance of elsa's claim to your shot, espeonage? i'm not really seeing the connection that you implied there in 1230.

[northsidegal]

what scumteam would ever choose bulletproof? that's like the second worst option you could choose.

i agree that lynching the worst mechanically seems like the better play, but i also think that you're lying.

would like to hear from everyone else.

[northsidegal]

i think everyone should take a look at how the day ended yesterday – just this series of events at the end here. if the quotes are too hard to follow, it's just from the top of page 48.

Spoiler:

@Jay: At least UNVOTE. We're at 6v5 and the only 2 people NOT on either wagon are the 2 candidates themselves. Mutanta said he has some stuff to say, so give him the chance to say them.

Didn't you hear me when I said earlier that I made that vote as a legit attempt to hammer him? If someone else wants to unvote, sure, they go ahead, but I'm not moving it from Mutant now.

Gotta be stubborn with this kind of shit. Especially when we got like 1 day and a few hours left.

I could consider a vote on Espeonage - I remember voting him earlier for his repeated attacks against A50, but I think I had a vca earlier that picked him as a good vote option.

Be aware that if Esp is away, he will not be able to role claim so we could mislynch a town PR, so I'm a bit cagey about doing that.

I'm going to back for like the last 8 hours at the end of the day.

But if it's a him or me thing.

unvote, vote: mutant

Who has the swing vote?

Not moving from mutant unless something drastic comes along.
But can't think of anything that "something" could even be.

One moment, getting a call from security.

Vote Count 1-17

I would prefer to even to fail with honor than win by cheating.

Sophocles

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♥ mutantdevle (7)

(LYNCH)

: skitter30, UnaBombaH, Srceenplay, legoboyvdlp, Sky_Paladin, JaydragonKing, Espeonage

♠ Not_Mafia (1)

: mutantdevle

♦ Espeonage (5)

: northsidegal, the worst, Almost50, Not_Mafia, Montosh

♣ Not Voting (0)

:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-02-04 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- None!

[northsidegal]

i'll consider that i'm off here and that it actually is the worst – i don't think it is, but i had him as a scumlean catching up.

still waiting on everyone.

Not seeing Espe's aim as scum here, if the worst flips town the best hope he has is "lol whoops that gosh darn A50"

perhaps a desperation play / not a long game play?

[northsidegal]

the worst, you seem to be coming at this from the perspective of believing espeonage – that's strange to me. why?

[northsidegal]

i don't like being forced to leave all of my scumreads alive while my townreads get lynched.

[northsidegal]

why do people think a50 protected elsa? in a world where doubt exists as to whether or not elsa's claim was real, that seems like a bad move, to me.

[northsidegal]

That being said if scum didn't take any abilities there's a very very high chance Esp is actually fakeclaiming scum

if scum didn't take any abilities then at least one of espeonage and elsa would be confirmed to be lying.

[northsidegal]

who do you guys expect a scum espeonage would do this to?

That being said if scum didn't take any abilities there's a very very high chance Esp is actually fakeclaiming scum

if scum didn't take any abilities then at least one of espeonage and elsa would be confirmed to be lying.

How so?

town only start with two power roles before mafia take any abilities – given that a50 has already flipped pr, if scum didn't take anything then there would only be one pr left, meaning that one of the pr claims would be lying.

[northsidegal]

actually, that's true – we could just lynch outside of you two and then tonight espeonage can target the worst again if actually the vig, no?

[northsidegal]

argh i'm pretty sure that the worst is town and i'm pretty sure that i die tonight but i'll vote the worst anyways when it comes to it because that's probably the mechanically correct thing to do and i could always be wrong.

don't let the day end early, though – even if the worst is the eventual lynch, i still want to hear from sky paladin and others.

[northsidegal]

who do you guys expect a scum espeonage would do this to?

[northsidegal]

If the worst actually flips bp, this is also a bad post imo -> it looks like you're stalling his lynch and I think you know that it's suboptimal to do that here mechanics wise, and that esp targeting the worst again is kinda pointless if it can just be resolved via the lynch, especially if there's a strong possibility that the worst is bp.

I'm not making any attempt to hide that i think the worst is town and don't want him lynched and that i think espeonage is scum.

[northsidegal]

(started typing this like one hour ago, got interrupted)

who do you guys expect a scum espeonage would do this to?

Did you answer this? Because you'd need to explain to me scum!esp's motivation for doing that for me to find it remotely plausible.

is this directed towards me? i already said that i think it could be a desperation or short game play. espeonage certainly didn't look good coming off of the end of day one, so he might have expected to get a lot of heat anyways – this extends his lifespan by one day and it's presumably a safe fakeclaim given that there weren't two kills.

[northsidegal]

feels like i'm going up against a scum block.

[northsidegal]

could you explain what you were talking about at the start of the day with regards to me and the mutant wagon? i'd like to hear that thought fleshed out.

[northsidegal]

A brief ISO of Worst shows he is massively favoring NSG and Screen.

So I'll call the scum team Worst/NSG/Screen at this point and wall post why it's game over when I'm finished work.

do you honestly think the game is this simple? that i'm hard, hard defending my partner who has essentially had a guilty claimed on him?

didn't we already go through this all with not mafia and then with mutant? when i think people are town, i try to prevent them from dying. when i think people are scum, i try to get them lynched.

this is tiring at this point, and i feel like i can see the future, where nothing i say changes anything for the rest of the day, and then i get shot tonight.

[northsidegal]

wouldn't you think that elsa has a higher chance of getting shot than me?

[northsidegal]

Espeonage if you vig me i will literally never forgive you.

You guys had a busy "night" while I slept!

I guess my "scumteam"-list was rather poor then..
And in case someone is still advocating a lynch anywhere other than the worst, you're literally being the worst.
We need to resolve this "1v1" today.

My biggest fear is that we might lynch only a Traitor today, but his posts during the day should still hold some value when searching for his buddies..

I'm also open to being JKd tonight too Elsa!

Not the response i expected after elsa's roleblock target claim. What was 14, then?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: the worst

[northsidegal]

L-1 i believe.

[northsidegal]

I support no lynching.

[northsidegal]

why are montosh and sky town?

Elsa is locktown to me, by the way – never lynching there.

[northsidegal]

could someone explain to me the rationale behind

not

no-lynching today? i see only benefits.

[northsidegal]

if we're no-lynching, it is the strategically correct play to not discuss your reads.

[northsidegal]

i'm still not convinced jay is town but if nobody else holds this opinion then i'll just focus elsewhere today, i suppose.

i eagerly await sky paladin's reentrance.

[northsidegal]

also not mafia is correct, it only requires 50% of players to no-lynch, not a majority as is the case for lynches.

[northsidegal]

I thought we were no lynching so if elsa was town i wanted mafia to think that she was unlynchable and thus to shoot her (sorting her slot), and if she was mafia i wanted her to not consider me as a nightkill target.

[northsidegal]

and thus we find out why talking about reads if we're no lynching is a bad idea.

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

lol, policy lynching in what would be lylo.

UNVOTE: if i'm voting there – even though i want to no-lynch, i'd rather sky comes back and scumclaims before that happens.

[northsidegal]

skitter, i don't understand how you're hard townreading jay now even though your opinion back on day one when i was pushing there was that you thought he was scummy but didn't want to vote there because it would resolve itself. well, here we are in mylo and it hasn't resolved itself. we can

very, very easily

no lynch, and the situation

will

resolve itself. that's what i recognized at the start of the day and it gives me a lot of pause that you didn't think the same thing.

by the way, has jay claimed who he blocked last night?

[northsidegal]

are you saying that you didn't get a result night two or three?

[northsidegal]

i'm conflicted here – i'm pretty sure that's a lie but it kind of throws off my metal image of who the scumteam is or why this is happening. the day two deadline was on pause until you picked up a daystart / nightstart pm, and then math started the deadline, confirming that you picked up one of the pms.

[northsidegal]

ehhh i really feel like lego is town though

[northsidegal]

we should undoubtably be no lynching after this, by the way.

[northsidegal]

If lego is scum this is orchestrated by someone else via day chat, but I don't see any of the players in the game doing that

i could see skitter doing this, sky paladin too, but he's on v/la, so i'm inclined to agree with you.

@lego – mathdino confirmed that you picked up a daystart/nightstart pm at the end of day two – why didn't you send in an action?

[northsidegal]

agreed, i don't see why he wouldn't just claim another result on jay or espeonage. lego is solid town.

[northsidegal]

if lego were scum with jay, he would've claimed a not goon result on him – if he were scum and jay was town, he would've claimed a goon result on him. him not claiming a result on jay at all makes him probably town. is my logic wrong somehwere?

[northsidegal]

it's still correct to no-lynch i'm pretty sure. this is why i wanted to wait for sky to get back – the goon cop result on me would've been

transparently

fake, there's no way sky would've voted the worst day two if he had a guilty on me.

[northsidegal]

i mean, i agree with you, but sky never actually hardclaimed cop. this is why you should've waited.

[northsidegal]

Sorry, it makes perfect sense for scum!lego to pre-empt a sky cop claim in a MyLo situation. Not to mention you've been on the sky slot basically all game. What, did you see a cop crumb from them early on and try your hand at lynching them?

why does scum lego preemt a cop claim when sky paladin hadn't even hardclaimed cop and especially when none of the results that sky purported to have were on lego himself?

[northsidegal]

Uh huh. That first quote from lego is maybe a crumb, maybe not, not really definitive. So all that leaves is the second, which is sketchy. I mean, all he had to do was get two sentences to start with G and then C after the word I'm. Wouldn't be hard to crumb like that for a potential fakeclaim, or even just get lucky and have the right letter line up. You only needed three.

what reason do you have to believe sky over lego?

[northsidegal]

And why should we trust you, North, when we have him claiming to have a guilty on you?

well for one he hasn't claimed a guilty on me yet – for two his claim is obviously false, and i'm waiting to see if he sticks to the fakeclaim first before dismantling it.

[northsidegal]

Sigh.

Well played to scum and good game all. Not mafia fooled me pretty well playing to what i thought was his towngame.